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主席謝謝 麻煩請經濟部工部長好 請工部長好 部長好"},{"start":19.79,"end":33.913,"text":"美國商會發布2026年台灣白皮書那其中對於我們很重要AI的成長他是高度的支持跟注意但是他也講到說AI成長的話台灣有個很大隱憂什麼隱憂"},{"start":37.168,"end":59.796,"text":"因為全世界都一樣 因為電力上來全世界都一樣呢 它在台灣我現在討論美國商會台灣白皮書嘛兩個部分嘛 第一美國商會專不專業經濟部重不重視 第二這一個白皮書它有沒有任何的這個政黨色彩 沒有嘛它就是一個外商對於台灣投資的一個報告嘛"},{"start":60.316,"end":77.388,"text":"那很重要嘛 裡面他有講到是說電力問題是 甚至有講到說可能是國安層級嘛是不是 台灣面臨到供應中斷時的緩衝能力以及供應供給的彈性明顯不足嘛這個是報告裡面有講到 已經媒體有報導了嘛"},{"start":77.867,"end":95.22,"text":"所以不用說在這邊那是不是對照不管是我們賴清德總統還是我們民進黨政府過去一而再再三強調2032以前台灣都不用缺電大家放心但很明顯的很顯然的美國商會並不買單並不接受嘛"},{"start":96.261,"end":111.12,"text":"所以說他提出來一個質疑跟提出來一個提醒其實我覺得部長您先耐心聽一下本席的結論我覺得這個是不分藍綠黨派在野執政都要面對啊"},{"start":111.801,"end":134.92,"text":"我是在野黨但是我也不希望美國商會跟我們講是說台灣的電力供應不足啊我也希望補齊啊所以應該是看到這樣子的一個建議看到這樣的一個提醒趕快去想是說我們還可以怎麼樣來做而不是又要再扯說沒有啦平行失控啦兩個世界啦台灣就是反正我們賴政府很英明神武啊要電電就有啊部長"},{"start":138.2,"end":157.854,"text":"我可以說明嗎來說明一下謝謝因為我看了他們這一次反而比較強調的是韌性的部分電網韌性還有安全的部分這個兩個是強化起來那我說事實上我們過去來講把電網韌性啊或者是分散式能源啊安全的能源"},{"start":159.674,"end":184.38,"text":"這個韌性跟安全已經提升到安全等級這個國安等級這個本來就是所以我們這個CIA的這個關鍵基礎建設已經把各個電廠事實上視為關鍵基礎正式加強防備然後有分散式的電源讓這個韌性可以增加那我想我們這個部分都有在做當然如果有還有不足我們可以來努力可以來強化部長"},{"start":185,"end":192.486,"text":"那個報告我聽你這樣講啦說實在我尊重你的專業但我很明顯的報告其實看起來你是沒有看啦為什麼"},{"start":194.861,"end":220.88,"text":"你一直在講我們台灣內部的狀況人家其實裡面報告直指的是我們現在的能源發電結構是有問題的我們長期95%是依賴火力發電包括50%的燃氣以及30%的燃煤而它裡面特別提到是說有供應不足的緩衝能力跟彈性明顯不足是因為我們依賴進口的ING廠已經變成是主要來源"},{"start":221.801,"end":235.388,"text":"高度依賴進口的發電結構讓台灣容易受到地緣政治的衝突而影響能源供給中斷人家講的是這個結果我剛剛也給你時間了結果你一直在講說我們國內的供應的狀況公罵牛不相干啦你真的是牛頭不對馬嘴啦來啦 部長"},{"start":245.522,"end":260.408,"text":"第二個部分我先請教一下來我先請教一下我們看到說因為現在台電這個虧損超過3600億那也要比照中油模式由政府擔保透過八大公股銀行來提供3000億的專案融資來維持營運確定了嗎"},{"start":265.949,"end":289.547,"text":"這個的確是行政院跟央行有在協助 沒有錯是 但我看到是經濟部主導啊因為它主要是我們台電公司 對 兩個部分嘛第一台電虧損3600億這是事實那現在要跟八大公股銀行這邊來算是借錢啦融資或借錢啦 對 但是它主要是那還有提出來有一個媒體先講是說是中華郵政的錢"},{"start":291.018,"end":314.03,"text":"那我今天在樓上交通委員會我也特別問了中華郵政董事長中華郵政董事長是說他們是用儲金的方式定存給八大公共銀行所以八大公共銀行拿定存的錢再來融資給台電好 那不管怎麼樣啊都是用戶都是全民買單可是我們要問的是說這一筆錢有辦法回嗎"},{"start":315.56,"end":328.697,"text":"有辦法償還嗎當然有 因為它是貸款所以它符合金融的相關的規定都符合半年所以我們貸款期要多久貸款期現在三年那三年的還款計畫現在有出來了嗎"},{"start":330.419,"end":356.81,"text":"所有的這個營運資金都是這樣他短期債了你還了以後你可以再借沒問題 我也說現在本席要問的是有借有還再借不難啊我也期待你講到這一點啊所以說這個就是交通委員會 千計委員會跟交通委員會這邊都要一起來把關啊那我想問的是說現在來我想問的是說現在這個還款計畫會不會拿出來會不會經過立法院送審還是直接你們就是講好就好了"},{"start":358.8,"end":385.061,"text":"應該是不用吧跟委員報告因為他這個是給他一個額度三年之內他隨時可以借但借的時候他的期限是只有一年誰規定的你今年這樣子就虧損了三千多億說實在話如果說是民間公司如果說是民間公司我沒有政府當保人今天看起來是政府當莊家政府當保人壓著公股銀行說你們一定要借給台電"},{"start":385.922,"end":406.002,"text":"如果說是今天是一般的銀行啊他去看到一家公司突然間過去表現良好然後今年突然虧損了三千多億啊虧損到自己的資本額啦我覺得任何銀行都不敢放款但是就只有我們台電非常偉大因為有一個民進黨政府當靠山當後盾所以才壓著銀行這邊來給嘛"},{"start":410.247,"end":422.044,"text":"虧損 事實上它吸收了超過六千億那現在是零千億 零三千億部長 你要這樣講內行人講外行人的話那就不對了過去我們沒有用總預算來去補排電的虧損嗎"},{"start":423.687,"end":447.686,"text":"補了超過2500億、3000億吧每一次特別預算2023年特別預算是不是有1500億就是給台電虧損那個時候第十屆的時候民進黨國會多數的時候是不是要通過多少預算來撥補台電虧損就通過多少預算我都不想講你都是拿人民的納稅錢去補這個漏洞那現在我們一直講"},{"start":448.84,"end":457.175,"text":"大家能源問題共同面對但是我們也一直提醒所以我們也一直提醒說你的能源結構發電結構要不要檢討"},{"start":460.179,"end":480.996,"text":"不檢討美國商會跟你講能源結構有嚴重的問題可能會有地緣政治的關係也充耳不聞然後現在台電持續的虧損你們也不檢討我們有在進行你要怎麼做呢我第一個講能源來源的部分對外能源來源的部分我們會分散"},{"start":482.017,"end":498.113,"text":"這個是安全上的一個部分你還是用火力發電你還是火力全開嘛你還是燃煤燃氣嘛為什麼再生能源要不斷的發展起來再生能源發展多久了還要提再生能源業員之委員剛剛講的那個風電再生能源它是一個永久性的事業它可以再生啊"},{"start":503.558,"end":504.018,"text":"我們現在很穩健"},{"start":524.216,"end":546.384,"text":"來啦 最後一個問題如果很穩健的話就不會虧損六千億了啦來 部長如果是照顧民生 那個要分開如果說真的穩健的話就不會虧損六千億過去沒有虧損那麼多啦部長你要成口舌之快可以你慢慢去成啦但是部長最後一個問題我覺得議員 市委員剛剛也點到一個重點是本席最近也看到也關注的"},{"start":546.864,"end":567.439,"text":"就是有很多民眾也開始有疑慮就是說現在如果說新的這個相關的住宅他是需要有這個太陽能光電板在屋頂的話那會牽扯到兩個部分一個是架設的這個成本其實某種程度上也是轉嫁到每個住戶這邊要去平均分攤所以可能會造成房價的一個上漲"},{"start":568.393,"end":590.944,"text":"那第二個部分是你架設了光電板之後想請教到底我們的規劃因為現在有一般民間的光電板它是賣電回來給台電台電再去做一個輸出那如果說未來是各家戶上面屋頂有光電板的話是到底是要賣回給台電還是直接供這一個住戶來就使用我們目前的方向是什麼"},{"start":591.624,"end":613.993,"text":"都可以所以說是住戶自由選擇他們選擇區 區權會自由選擇對區權會自由選擇那這樣子會不會造成這個整體的不管是施工成本或是後續推動的一個困難應該還好因為它是賣電因為賣電有賣電的好處那他們自用自用有自用的考量"},{"start":615.609,"end":635.156,"text":"我們都尊重我們提出來這個問題並不是無地放矢而是因為你們現在一個行政命令就要全部大家這樣配合但是大家馬上提到很多都是實際的狀況一個是北台灣相對來說陰雨天可能比較多但是相對來講的建築"},{"start":638.077,"end":664.315,"text":"數量北台灣會是比較高的所以如果說一體試用的話北台灣有沒有辦法跟南台灣都有這樣子的一個規模的能源發電效率這打一個問號第二個如果說是要賣電給台電的話那這樣子那個管路的牽線以及如果說是要用住家自己使用的話那就要每一個住家都要有儲能裝置這又是另外一個不同的一個方向第三"},{"start":665.58,"end":683.9,"text":"因為他連結到病網裡面去你先聽我講完如果你剛講了嘛 業源支援也說了如果說你們認為是說裝光電板的話是增加韌性那增加韌性你就要有儲能裝置如果說這個儲能裝置沒有的話你會變成是你的增加韌性只有增加在白天晚上你沒有辦法"},{"start":684.761,"end":712.321,"text":"而且另外一點是這個光電板它本來就是白天的時候可能住戶都不在家裡用電量比較少你白天在吸收能源的時候你就是存來讓住戶晚上回到家裡的時候能夠來做使用這個是實際的層面我相信你我下了班之後會回家所以你想一下你的生活方式是什麼你就知道是說現在推動這個政策未來會面臨到什麼樣的狀況以及第三最重要的是"},{"start":713.301,"end":735.333,"text":"這一個光電板現在即便是交貨了那是完好的但用了10年呢用了15年呢破損了 壞掉了 故障了 維修了後續誰來負責區權會啊 住戶自己啊是啊 那這些都是成本增加結果我們現在用一個"},{"start":736.505,"end":764.926,"text":"行政命令就要求大家都要遵守 但是你沒有讓住戶有選擇與否的權利而你可以得到的效果利益是什麼 不知道還有最重要的是不是一直講說台灣不缺電嗎你怎麼連這種電剛剛我們朝偉站起來 我就尊重朝偉 但是朝偉講到連300坪的面積的這個光電板的電 你都都要跳那代表什麼"},{"start":765.799,"end":792.613,"text":"代表台灣現在是10天的沒有啦 這增加任性啦對啊任何需要任何的店員任何的來賓任性就是一個替代概念啦任性的意義就代表是說我現在就是沒有那麼足夠所以我才要各自大家自己自立自強啦講不客氣的這就套一句我都不想再講這就套一句"},{"start":793.903,"end":816.968,"text":"前總統蔡英文就講你們自己要自立自強啊台電可能沒有辦法給你那麼足夠的電啊所以我現在政府就用一紙行政命令要你各住戶各建築自立自強自己準備光電板來準備發電啊這就是國人現在的感覺我再次強調因為這是內政部跟經濟部共同提出來的政策"},{"start":818.069,"end":840.918,"text":"本席也會在內政委員會跟內政部就較這個議題但是我真的很持平的很誠心的請部長再思考一下我剛剛講這幾點如果沒有辦法解決或確實會造成更多的民怨的情況要不要貿然的一味的不顧意見的持續推動部長思考一下好不好謝謝好 謝謝侯孟愷"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:01:12.069000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:01:13.030000+08:00","text":"主席謝謝，麻煩請經濟部龔部長。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-17T12:01:13.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:01:16.011000+08:00","text":"請龔部長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:01:16.011000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:01:17.011000+08:00","text":"洪委員好。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:01:16.171000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:01:16.271000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:01:31.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:01:45.913000+08:00","text":"美國商會發布2026年臺灣白皮書，其中對於我們很重要的AI成長，它是高度的支持跟注意，但是它也講到AI成長的話，臺灣有一個很大的隱憂，什麼隱憂？","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:01:49.488000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:01:50.809000+08:00","text":"全世界都一樣，因為電力就是算力。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:01:51.969000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:01:56.991000+08:00","text":"全世界都一樣，那它對臺灣，我現在在討論美國商會的臺灣白皮書嘛！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:01:57.631000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:02:00.532000+08:00","text":"兩個部分，第一，美國商會專不專業？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:02:00.532000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:02:01.772000+08:00","text":"經濟部重不重視？重視。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:02:01.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:02:06.094000+08:00","text":"第二，這個白皮書有沒有任何的政黨色彩？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:02:06.454000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:02:06.854000+08:00","text":"沒有嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:02:06.854000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:02:07.854000+08:00","text":"沒有，對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:02:07.454000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:02:13.157000+08:00","text":"它就是一個外商對於臺灣投資的報告，很重要嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:02:13.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:02:19.701000+08:00","text":"它裡面有講到電力問題，甚至有講到可能是國安層級，是不是？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:02:19.701000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:02:20.701000+08:00","text":"對，電力就是算力。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:02:19.921000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:02:46.980000+08:00","text":"臺灣面臨到供應中斷時的緩衝能力以及供給的彈性明顯不足，這個是報告裡面有講到的，已經有媒體報導了，所以不用在這邊……那對照不管是我們賴清德總統，還是民進黨政府過去一而再再而三強調2032以前臺灣都不缺電，大家放心，但很明顯、很顯然的美國商會並不買單，並不接受……","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:02:46.980000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:02:48.261000+08:00","text":"報告委員，它比較……","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:02:48.261000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:02:56.932000+08:00","text":"所以它提出來一個質疑跟提出來一個提醒，其實我覺得，部長您先耐心聽一下本席的結論。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:02:56.932000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:02:57.932000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:02:56.932000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:03:09.886000+08:00","text":"我覺得這個是不分藍綠黨派，在野、執政都要面對，我是在野黨，但是我也不希望美國商會跟我們講說臺灣的電力供應不足，我也希望補齊啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:03:10.487000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:03:20.055000+08:00","text":"所以看到這樣子的建議，看到這樣的提醒，應該是趕快去想我們還可以怎麼樣來做，而不是又要再扯說沒有啦！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:03:20.235000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:03:20.955000+08:00","text":"平行時空啦！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:03:21.376000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:03:21.756000+08:00","text":"兩個世界啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:03:22.777000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:03:26.920000+08:00","text":"反正我們賴政府很英明神武，要電電就有啊！部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:03:30.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:03:30.800000+08:00","text":"我可以說明了是不是？","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:03:32.341000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:03:33.562000+08:00","text":"來，說明一下。謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:03:33.562000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:03:42.829000+08:00","text":"因為我看了，他們這一次反而比較強調的是韌性的部分，電網韌性還有安全的部分，這兩個是強化起來。","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:03:43.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:04:16.140000+08:00","text":"事實上我們過去來講，把電網韌性或者是分散式能源、安全的能源，韌性跟安全已經提升到安全等級、國安等級，這個本來就是，所以我們CI的關鍵基礎建設已經把各個電廠視為它的關鍵基礎設施來加強防備，然後有分散式的電源讓這個韌性可以增加，我們這個部分都有在做，當然，如果還有不足，我們可以來努力，可以來強化。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:04:16.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:04:24.166000+08:00","text":"部長，我聽你這樣講，說實在，我尊重你的專業，但很明顯的，這份報告看起來你是沒有看啊！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:04:24.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:04:24.486000+08:00","text":"為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:04:26.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:05:00.764000+08:00","text":"你一直在講我們臺灣內部的狀況，其實人家在報告裡面直指的是，我們現在的能源發電結構是有問題的，我們長期95%是依賴火力發電，包括50%的燃氣以及30%的燃煤，而它裡面特別提到，有供應不足的緩衝能力跟彈性明顯不足是因為我們倚賴進口的LNG廠已經變成是主要來源，高度依賴進口的發電結構讓臺灣容易受到地緣政治的衝突而影響能源供給中斷。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:05:00.764000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:05:01.764000+08:00","text":"對，所以我們……","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:05:00.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:05:03.866000+08:00","text":"人家講的是這個，我剛剛也給你時間了，結果你一直在講我們國內的供應狀況。","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:05:03.866000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:05:04.866000+08:00","text":"對，所以……","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:05:04.006000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:05:04.606000+08:00","text":"風馬牛不相干啦！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:05:05.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:05:07.067000+08:00","text":"你真的是牛頭不對馬嘴啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:05:07.367000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:05:19.483000+08:00","text":"部長，第二個部分，我先請教一下……","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:05:19.483000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:05:20.483000+08:00","text":"所以為什麼我們要延展……","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:05:20.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:05:32.408000+08:00","text":"來，我先請教一下，我們看到因為現在台電虧損超過3,600億，所以也要比照中油模式由政府擔保，透過八大公股銀行來提供3,000億的專案融資來維持營運，確定了嗎？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:05:37.949000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:05:41.471000+08:00","text":"這個的確是行政院跟央行有在協助，沒有錯。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:05:41.471000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:05:43.453000+08:00","text":"是，但是我看到的是經濟部主導，那八大……","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:05:44.934000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:05:47.576000+08:00","text":"因為它主要是台電公司……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:05:48.197000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:05:56.743000+08:00","text":"對，兩個部分，第一，台電虧損3,600億這是事實，那現在要跟八大公股銀行這邊，算是借錢啦！","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:05:56.964000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:05:57.684000+08:00","text":"融資或借錢啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:05:57.904000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:05:58.785000+08:00","text":"對，但是它主要是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:05:59.365000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:06:26.030000+08:00","text":"還有媒體提出來，有一個媒體先講說是中華郵政的錢，今天在樓上交通委員會我也特別問了中華郵政董事長，中華郵政董事長說他們是用儲金的方式定存給八大公股銀行，所以八大公股銀行拿定存的錢再來融資給台電，好，不管怎麼樣，都是用戶，都是全民買單，可是我們要問的是，這一筆錢有辦法回嗎？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:06:26.030000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:06:27.560000+08:00","text":"報告委員，它是有貸……","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:06:27.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:06:29.282000+08:00","text":"有辦法償還嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:06:29.282000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:06:34.208000+08:00","text":"當然有辦法，因為它是貸款，所以它符合金融相關的規定來辦理，事前……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:06:35.170000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:06:37.733000+08:00","text":"好，所以我們貸款期要多久？3年。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:06:37.893000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:06:38.774000+08:00","text":"貸款期現在3年。","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:06:38.774000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:06:39.774000+08:00","text":"所以3年還了以後……","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:06:39.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:06:40.697000+08:00","text":"那3年的還款計畫現在有出來了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:06:42.419000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:06:46.581000+08:00","text":"所有的營運資金都是這樣，它是短期債，你還了以後，你可以再借。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:06:46.881000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:06:50.202000+08:00","text":"沒問題，現在本席要問的是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:06:50.602000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:06:51.663000+08:00","text":"有借有還，再借不難。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:06:52.343000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:06:53.724000+08:00","text":"有借有還，再借不難，我也期待你講到這一點啦！","quality":0.526},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:06:53.724000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:06:54.724000+08:00","text":"是，我們一定會還。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:06:54.024000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:07:01.427000+08:00","text":"所以這個就是經濟委員會跟交通委員會這邊要一起來把關，那我想問的是現在……","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:07:01.427000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:07:02.427000+08:00","text":"就是我們經濟部……","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:07:01.987000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:07:05.469000+08:00","text":"來，我想問的是，現在這個還款計畫會不會拿出來？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:07:05.469000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:07:07.249000+08:00","text":"會不會經過立法院送審？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:07:07.249000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:07:08.790000+08:00","text":"還是你們直接講好就好了？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:07:10.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:07:11.220000+08:00","text":"應該是不用吧！","quality":1},{"speaker":"胡司長文中","start":"2026-06-17T12:07:11.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:07:19.447000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，因為這個是給它一個額度，3年之內它隨時可以借，但借的時候它的期限是只有1年，所以甚至……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:07:20.728000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:07:20.888000+08:00","text":"誰規定的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:07:21.188000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:07:25.092000+08:00","text":"你今年這樣子就虧損了三千多億，欸！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:07:25.092000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:07:26.753000+08:00","text":"說實在話，如果是民間公司……","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:07:26.753000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:07:27.753000+08:00","text":"三千多億不是今年虧損，是累積的，到現在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:07:27.434000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:07:31.157000+08:00","text":"如果是民間公司，沒有政府當保人啊！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:07:31.817000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:07:37.061000+08:00","text":"今天看起來是政府當莊家，政府當保人，押著公股銀行說你們一定要借給台電啊！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:07:37.061000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:07:38.061000+08:00","text":"報告委員……","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:07:37.922000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:07:46.571000+08:00","text":"如果說今天是一般的銀行，它看到一家公司過去表現很好，然後今年突然虧損了三千多億……","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:07:46.571000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:07:47.571000+08:00","text":"這不是一年。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:07:47.031000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:07:51.015000+08:00","text":"虧損到自己的資本額，我覺得任何銀行都不敢放款。","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:07:51.015000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:07:52.015000+08:00","text":"報告委員，那不是一年，那是從……","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:07:51.235000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:07:57.982000+08:00","text":"但是就只有我們台電非常偉大，因為有一個民進黨政府當靠山、當後盾，所以才押著銀行這邊來給嘛！","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:08:02.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:08:06.954000+08:00","text":"那是從COVID-19以來累積的虧損，事實上它吸收了超過6,000億，現在是累積虧損3,000億。","quality":0.457},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:08:06.954000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:08:14.044000+08:00","text":"部長，你要這樣講，內行人講外行話那就不對了，過去我們沒有用總預算去補台電的虧損嗎？","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:08:15.687000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:08:16.708000+08:00","text":"補了超過2,500億、3,000億吧！","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:08:16.708000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:08:18.309000+08:00","text":"沒有、沒有、沒有，撥補的部分是撥補。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:08:18.309000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:08:25.495000+08:00","text":"每一次特別預算……2023年特別預算是不是有1,500億就是在補台電的虧損？","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:08:25.495000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:08:26.495000+08:00","text":"沒有，撥補歸撥補，增資是增資，不一樣。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:08:26.376000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:08:33.982000+08:00","text":"第10屆的時候，民進黨國會多數的時候，是不是要通過多少預算來撥補台電虧損就通過多少預算？","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:08:33.982000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:08:34.982000+08:00","text":"對，撥補……","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:08:34.662000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:08:46.330000+08:00","text":"我都不想講，你都是拿人民的納稅錢去補這個漏洞，現在我們一直講能源問題大家共同面對，我們也一直提醒……","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:08:46.330000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:08:47.330000+08:00","text":"報告委員，台電也是為了照顧民生，所以才產生虧損。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:08:46.831000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:08:53.540000+08:00","text":"所以我們也一直提醒說你的能源結構、發電結構要不要檢討，不檢討！","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:08:53.540000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:09:00.065000+08:00","text":"美國商會跟你講能源結構有嚴重的問題，可能會有地緣政治的關係……","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:09:00.065000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:09:01.065000+08:00","text":"所以為什麼……","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:09:00.065000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:09:01.126000+08:00","text":"也充耳不聞。有啊！有啊！","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:09:01.126000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:09:05.169000+08:00","text":"然後現在台電持續地虧損，你們也不檢討。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:09:05.169000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:09:06.410000+08:00","text":"我們有在進行。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:09:06.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:09:07.411000+08:00","text":"那你要怎麼做呢？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:09:08.052000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:09:15.178000+08:00","text":"你聽我講，第一個，能源來源的部分，對外能源來源的部分我們會分散，這個是安全上，第一個部分。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:09:16.019000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:09:20.483000+08:00","text":"你還是用火力發電，你還是火力全開嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:09:20.483000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:09:21.483000+08:00","text":"第二個，你講能源結構的部分，為什麼要一直發展再生能源？","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:09:21.184000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:09:22.545000+08:00","text":"你還是燃煤、燃氣嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:09:22.545000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:09:23.545000+08:00","text":"是不是？","quality":0},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:09:23.186000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:09:25.648000+08:00","text":"為什麼再生能源要不斷地發展起來？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:09:25.648000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:09:26.648000+08:00","text":"就是我們的重點啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:09:25.648000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:09:27.870000+08:00","text":"再生能源發展多久了，還要提再生能源？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:09:28.031000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:09:28.731000+08:00","text":"葉元之委員剛剛講的風電，還要再回來講風電？","quality":0.474},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:09:28.731000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:09:30.093000+08:00","text":"再生能源它是一個永久性的事業，它可以再生啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:09:30.093000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:09:31.914667+08:00","text":"本席完全不反對再生能源，但是我們過去一直強調，就是因為現在的技術可能沒有辦法符合大眾的民生發電需求……","quality":0},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:09:31.914667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:09:33.736333+08:00","text":"因為當初再生能源的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:09:33.736333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:09:35.558000+08:00","text":"也因此才需要不要冒進地推動，不然的話，真的只是讓大家覺得弊案重重啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:09:35.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:09:35.998000+08:00","text":"我們現在很穩健。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:09:57.236000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:09:59.357000+08:00","text":"如果很穩健的話就不會虧損6,000億了。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:09:59.997000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:10:00.878000+08:00","text":"來，部長，最後一個問題……","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:10:01.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:10:03.239000+08:00","text":"那個是照顧民生，那個要分開。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:10:03.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:10:06.200000+08:00","text":"如果說真的穩健的話，就不會虧損6,000億。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:10:06.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:10:07.300000+08:00","text":"過去沒有虧損那麼多啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:10:07.300000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:10:08.300000+08:00","text":"照顧民生，照顧民生！","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:10:08.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:10:11.441000+08:00","text":"部長，你要逞口舌之快，你可以慢慢去逞啦！","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:10:11.642000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:10:12.622000+08:00","text":"但是部長，最後一個問題……","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:10:12.622000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:10:13.622000+08:00","text":"的確是這樣啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:10:13.622000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:10:14.622000+08:00","text":"因為民生的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:10:12.622000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:10:21.366000+08:00","text":"我覺得葉元之委員剛剛也點到一個重點，本席最近也看到、也關注的，有很多民眾也開始有疑慮。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:10:21.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:10:39.439000+08:00","text":"就是現在如果新的相關住宅是需要有太陽能光電板在屋頂的話，那會牽扯到兩個部分：一個是架設的成本，其實某種程度上也是轉嫁到每個住戶要去平均分攤，所以可能會造成房價的上漲。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:10:40.673000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:10:46.136000+08:00","text":"第二個部分是，你架設了光電板之後，請教到底我們的規劃是如何？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:10:46.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:10:52.339000+08:00","text":"因為現在有一般民間的光電板是賣電回來給台電，台電再去做一個輸出。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:10:53.459000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:11:01.463000+08:00","text":"如果未來是各家戶上面屋頂有光電板的話，到底是要賣回給台電，還是直接供這個住戶來做使用？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:11:01.763000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:11:02.944000+08:00","text":"我們目前的方向是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:11:03.624000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:11:04.004000+08:00","text":"都可以。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:11:04.824000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:11:06.765000+08:00","text":"所以是住戶自由選擇？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:11:06.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:11:08.286000+08:00","text":"他們選擇。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:11:08.286000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:11:10.207000+08:00","text":"區權會自由選擇？對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:11:10.907000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:11:18.930000+08:00","text":"那這樣子會不會造成整體上在施工成本或是後續推動的困難？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:11:18.930000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:11:20.951000+08:00","text":"應該還好，因為他是賣電。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:11:21.731000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:11:28.129000+08:00","text":"賣電有賣電的好處，他們自用也有自用的考量，我們都尊重。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:11:28.329000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:11:41.954000+08:00","text":"部長，我們提出來這個問題，並不是無的放矢，而是因為你們現在一個行政命令就要全部大家這樣配合，但是大家馬上提到很多實際的狀況。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:11:41.954000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:11:51.598000+08:00","text":"一個是北臺灣的陰雨天可能比較多，但是建築數量相對來講是北臺灣比較高。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:11:52.539000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:11:59.964000+08:00","text":"所以如果一體適用的話，北臺灣有沒有辦法跟南臺灣都有一樣規模的能源發電效率？","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:12:01.025000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:12:02.186000+08:00","text":"這要打一個問號。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:12:02.186000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:12:16.295000+08:00","text":"第二個，如果是要賣電給台電的話，那管路的牽線，以及如果是要讓住家自己使用的話，那就要每一個住家都要有儲能裝置，這又是另外一個不同的方向。第三……沒有！","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:12:16.295000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:12:17.580000+08:00","text":"不需要。","quality":0},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:12:17.580000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:12:19.382000+08:00","text":"因為它連結到併網裡面去，它的現網。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:12:20.103000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:12:20.663000+08:00","text":"部長，你先聽我講完。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:12:21.464000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:12:29.333000+08:00","text":"你剛剛講了，葉元之委員也說了，如果你們認為裝光電板是增加韌性，那你就要有儲能裝置。","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:12:29.894000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:12:35.880000+08:00","text":"如果這個儲能裝置沒有的話，會變成你的增加韌性只有增加在白天，晚上沒有辦法。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:12:36.761000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:12:51.211000+08:00","text":"而且另外一點是，白天的時候可能住戶都不在家裡，用電量就比較少，那這個光電板白天在吸收能源的時候，就是單純讓住戶晚上回到家裡的時候能夠來做使用，這個是實際的層面。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:12:52.252000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:13:02.319000+08:00","text":"你、我下了班之後會回家，所以你想一下你的生活方式是什麼，你就知道現在推動這個政策未來會面臨到什麼樣的狀況。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:13:02.559000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:13:11.345000+08:00","text":"第三，最重要的是，這個光電板現在即便是交貨了、是完好的，但用了10年呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:13:12.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:13:12.925000+08:00","text":"用了15年呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:13:14.086000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:13:20.670000+08:00","text":"破損了、壞掉了、故障了、維修了，後續誰來負責？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:13:20.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:13:20.670000+08:00","text":"區權會嗎？對。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:13:21.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:13:22.071000+08:00","text":"住戶自己嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:13:22.071000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:13:24.052000+08:00","text":"是，基本上都有……是啊！","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:13:24.052000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:13:38.672000+08:00","text":"那這些都是成本增加，結果我們現在用一個行政命令就要求大家都要遵守，但是你沒有讓住戶有選擇與否的權利，而你可以得到的效果利益是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:13:38.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:13:38.973000+08:00","text":"不知道！","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:13:39.973000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:13:45.717000+08:00","text":"還有最重要的是，不是一直講說臺灣不缺電嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:13:45.717000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:13:56.926000+08:00","text":"你怎麼連這種電……剛剛我們召委站起來，我就尊重召委，但是召委講到，連面積300坪的光電板的電你們也要「抾」，那代表什麼？","quality":0.771},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:13:57.799000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:13:59.380000+08:00","text":"代表臺灣現在是很缺電的！","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:13:59.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:14:00.520000+08:00","text":"沒有啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:14:00.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:14:01.641000+08:00","text":"這是增加韌性啦！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:14:04.743000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:14:06.724000+08:00","text":"任何的電源、任何的來源，我們都非常需要、非常希望……","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:14:07.084000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:14:11.206000+08:00","text":"韌性就是一個替代概念啦！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:14:11.946000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:14:19.770000+08:00","text":"韌性的意義就代表「我現在就是沒有那麼足夠，所以我才要大家各自自立自強。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:14:20.491000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:14:28.964000+08:00","text":"」講不客氣的……我都不想再講了，這就套一句前總統蔡英文所講的：「你們自己要自立自強」。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:14:30.164000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:14:41.746000+08:00","text":"台電可能沒有辦法給你們足夠的電，所以現在政府就用一紙行政命令，要你各住戶、各建築自立自強，自己準備光電板來準備發電。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:14:43.187000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:14:45.447000+08:00","text":"這就是國人現在的感覺。","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-06-17T12:14:45.447000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:14:46.447000+08:00","text":"報告委員，這個只是增加韌性。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:14:45.447000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:14:54.751000+08:00","text":"我再次強調，因為這是內政部跟經濟部共同提出來的政策，本席也會在內政委員會跟內政部就教這個議題。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:14:54.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:15:01.774000+08:00","text":"但是我真的很持平地、很誠心地請部長再思考一下我剛剛講的這幾點。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:15:01.774000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:15:11.318000+08:00","text":"如果沒有辦法解決或確實會造成更多的民怨，那要不要貿然地、一味地、不顧意見地持續推動？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-17T12:15:11.318000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:15:12.598000+08:00","text":"部長思考一下好不好？好。謝謝。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-17T12:15:12.598000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-17T12:15:12.898000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝洪孟楷委員，謝謝部長。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-17T12:15:13.398000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-17T12:15:17.112286+08:00","text":"接下來我們請蔡易餘委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}