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最近我們陸委會就是宣告這個海峽論壇是統戰一個平台那當然統戰它是一個概念 它有一個目的那剛剛我也聽到您清楚的表達它的一個目的就是消滅中華民國政府嘛對不對 那你也知道我上禮拜有去平台嘛對不對那消滅中華民國我就很老實在這邊跟主委分享一下"},{"start":310.709,"end":339.734,"text":"其實我在海峽論壇的過程中完全沒有聽到任何一個這個中共的官員公開的在提到統一這兩個字那我想請問陸委會的事我們過去海峽論壇辦了很多次嘛他們在會議當中曾經出現了怎樣子的言論或是活動的流程讓我們的陸委會判斷他這個論壇的目的是在消滅中華民國政府"},{"start":340.034,"end":355.679,"text":"有沒有相關的案例可以分享?謝謝委員最主要是他辦了很多在這個統戰平台有很多的政治前提那一定要支持九二共識反對台獨"},{"start":357.319,"end":380.346,"text":"或者是要答應所謂的支持九二共識反對台獨跟消滅中華民國並沒有直接的關聯委員我們知道中共領導人習近平在2019年元一二號習五條就特別提到他重新定義九二共識所謂九二共識就是兩黨屬意中共和國家統一統一在一國兩制台灣關係上我們林登輝總統的這個促統會裡面怎麼解釋一個中國"},{"start":387.847,"end":391.448,"text":"李登輝總統在促統會裡面是怎麼形容一個中國我們那個時候就是李登輝那時候的說法應該是"},{"start":407.391,"end":423.362,"text":"前面就是一個中國的一個原則雙方認同一個中國的原則但是對於一個中國的含義各自不同也就是你講你的我講我的那為什麼現在好像變成我們陸委會每天在引用對岸的一個論述來變成我們的論述這就變得一個非常奇怪的事情"},{"start":423.962,"end":427.424,"text":"我們政府認為沒有所謂的九二共識在當年九二年也沒有留下這種東西那雙方對於所謂一中原則的意涵認知顯有不同所以我們就用口頭"},{"start":449.7,"end":464.593,"text":"這就是所謂的過去國民黨朋友回到我們的問題海峽論壇裡面到底有什麼東西是讓我們陸委會判斷他是要消滅我們中華民國的政治前提跟消滅中華民國沒有直接關係吧"},{"start":467.515,"end":488.864,"text":"那委員你試試看你去海峽論壇說我來自於中華民國我當然那中華人民共和國來台灣我也不允許啊我也不允許他說他支持中華人民共和國啊這就是各自表述的意圖只要對等尊嚴的交流我們都非常樂意去協助也肯定這種交流那回到我剛剛說的話我們三層論壇兩無論壇這個論壇還是論壇有哪一項會被認為是"},{"start":496.867,"end":508.698,"text":"會被認為是要消滅中華民國如果你能夠說服我我也不會帶過去了嘛我是中華民國派我永遠效忠中華民國啊是不是但是你要說服我為什麼這樣子的論壇被你們定義為要消滅中華民國我們從另外的方向海峽論壇是它的軟手硬手軍機建擾台外交打壓經濟脅迫社會滲透"},{"start":519.368,"end":535.061,"text":"靠近鎮壓的法律戰 鋪天蓋地的認知作戰 灰色地帶的侵擾這哪一項不是為了併吞台灣消滅中華民國的舉罪國民黨也都譴責嘛 那回到了論壇本身嘛 如果說這些行為都可以"},{"start":536.222,"end":549.271,"text":"你們都這樣判斷那就根本就不用介入在這個論壇了而且連大陸都不能去了嘛對不對我們立法委員我們是沒有規範我們是如果要懲到這一些都代表九二共和共的海峽論壇的精神不能去的話"},{"start":551.252,"end":559.685,"text":"導致這些行為導致不能去海峽論壇的話那應該不只是海峽論壇不能去應該是整個連大陸都不能去了嘛不要這麼說我給你報告其實對海峽論壇開始設限"},{"start":566.235,"end":592.946,"text":"是從這個2012年在馬政府執政的時候就開始對於當時候的海峽論壇的一些就開始禁止中央人員去中國大陸同時也不同意讓海峽論壇的分支機構在台灣舉辦這個是從2012年就開始留下來這些政策立場我們到現在只是不斷的補強他的政策立場"},{"start":593.746,"end":611.522,"text":"那當然我們也知道中共對台灣的複合性的施壓,步步兼逼極限施壓也因此我們也認為地方政府的人也不應該前往這些地方的輪廓我們都知道啦只是說具體在海峽論壇這上面我好像沒有得到我想要的答案啦那你認為說假設我認同海峽論壇它是有統戰的意涵"},{"start":615.445,"end":642.176,"text":"那不然就是統戰平台從馬政府實在就認為有能耗的抵抗力統戰不是只統一 這個主委非常清楚嘛對不對統戰就是聯合次要敵人 打擊主要的敵人嘛但是就我的觀察來看目前譬如說包括我現在在這邊講我是中華民國派我永遠效忠中華民國我到那邊完全都沒有受到任何的一個算是不禮貌的對待或者是任何的被跨境鎮壓還等等的"},{"start":643.971,"end":660.163,"text":"但是我們可以看到對岸是對什麼東西是最不滿的我們都很清楚是對台獨不滿的嘛對不對與其說海峽論壇我沒有期待你同意啦但與其來說如果說你要把海峽論壇當作一個是統戰平台的話那就是"},{"start":661.345,"end":676.606,"text":"打這個你要聯合哪個次要敵人來消滅中華民國中華民國就分兩邊嘛一個是台獨派一個是中華民國派你要消滅中華民國派那就是聯合次要敵人就是台獨派來消滅中華民國不然你就是聯合中華民國派來消滅台獨派就只有這兩個選擇嘛"},{"start":679.61,"end":692.462,"text":"我們國內不分黨派都要團結一致面對中國大陸的威脅我們都應該有一個基本的認識今天最主要改變現狀的"},{"start":694.364,"end":710.586,"text":"危害兩岸關係的製造兩岸緊張的區域動態不安的原因啊國際社會都認為是中國大陸對台灣的這個複合性施壓我們應該要2016年的兩岸關係跟現在怎麼樣剛剛你有非常清楚的說明現在比那時候還更不好"},{"start":711.797,"end":739.547,"text":"我們當然希望兩岸的關係還是民進黨的關係大家都會有一個心中自我的一個政治判斷啦我一直希望說陸委會的職責應該是要把現有的兩岸的摩擦跟惡意去把它降低而不是為了執政黨的政治的我們沒有為什麼黨派我們就是為了傷害台灣人民的事情台灣守護中華民國我們的兩岸政策還是一樣"},{"start":740.447,"end":751.964,"text":"我們是不配不抗維持現狀雖然我們受到很多挑戰威脅但是我們還是堅持在對等尊嚴持續的健康有序的交流好 謝謝謝謝好 謝謝廖先生"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}