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來說明一下是 跟委員報告我想這個原因主要是大概是算是疫情的工作跟之前所提到的那些不太一樣在疫情工作那因為要修剪樹木所以因為在林軌所以必須怪手有去改善有去改裝一些那個上面的一個剪頭"},{"start":91.465,"end":110.986,"text":"那我們在操作的時候他的手臂伸得太過去了所以重心不穩就這樣偏下去那我想這部分目前是剛剛提到的西正線是暫停東京線雙向通車目前大概在中午以前可以來完成這中午以前可以完成通車預計會影響多少班次"},{"start":112.526,"end":134.228,"text":"到目前他現在統計目前大概影響大概有6個班次是停止那影響大概目前有30個班次我想後續我們會再把相關的這個影響運轉的部分把它降到最低包括我們的一些階段期那個階段期期短的部分來去做一些運轉"},{"start":134.929,"end":147.1,"text":"好 這是誰的怪手 誰的工程是外包商在處理的嗎對 是台鐵工程他委託外包商來操作因為樹木有時候會侵入這個軌道所以他去做這個樹木上的一個修剪"},{"start":147.628,"end":166.828,"text":"那樹木上修剪我看這個怪手是開到鐵道的橋樑上面去做修剪當然這個怪手他的這個前緣啊也可以裝置修剪樹木的相關的器具那這個軌道他也可以上到這個軌道的橋樑上面但這樣一個工法不會"},{"start":167.669,"end":189.088,"text":"覺得非常的這樣奇特嗎確實災林軌工程因為它有一些地形上的限制所以它不得不所以就剛提到的我們那個怪手裡面的那個那本來履帶變成要變成所謂的膠輪去做就是這樣的話保護那個軌道然後一邊因為只有那個軌道裡面可以進去旁邊也進不了"},{"start":189.508,"end":206.193,"text":"所以那為了把那個樹木把它修剪掉只能從軌道進去然後用怪手裡面改裝的那個頭去把那個樹木把它做一個修剪這是不得不的好我們在軌道啊在整個修復的過程裡面通常都會"},{"start":207.553,"end":224.137,"text":"封閉相關的軌道那它是在清晨五點多相關的列車還沒有行駛之前對所造成的一個翻覆是那我們在施工期間如果是列車通行的時間也是會封鎖相關的軌道嗎應該是這樣嗎"},{"start":226.218,"end":254.395,"text":"如果是我們在軌道上有侵入軌道之餘一定要施工我就一定會做辦理封鎖甚至如果會有感電之餘我也會斷電這是我們的標準作業程序那相關的作業措施就是說我們現在在平時的軌道的車輛的一個運行正常運行之間如果臨時有義務入侵我們相關的義務入侵系統的裝置以及相關的這樣的一個處理程序是如何"},{"start":256.096,"end":270.362,"text":"因為這幾個比較重要的 譬如說我們過去在剛才提到那個大清水之前的那個斷崖那個地方我們在花東地質比較差的地方 我們現在都有做一些所謂的告警也是一霧入侵的時候會有一些告警"},{"start":270.882,"end":286.323,"text":"那這部分我想我們會依照 那個部會連到我們的行控中心我們一次到以後 當地的 我們就立即會通知這個車輛停駛然後由當地的那個公路段去做一個確認那如果確認沒問題以後 才可以繼續開放這個行車"},{"start":289.403,"end":310.983,"text":"市長我們對於鐵道相關的工程尤其是零軌工程相關的安全的維護是要百分之百不能打折扣的我剛才已經提醒過你2021年的太魯閣自強號在清水隧道之前所造成的重大傷亡以及2022年"},{"start":313.825,"end":323.75,"text":"東南水泥電塔倒塌造成台鐵高鐵的重大的延誤這都是讓國人對於安全對於"},{"start":325.559,"end":353.064,"text":"營運的效率啊都產生重大的信心動搖那今天早上凌晨五點的這樣的一個怪手番戶啊其實也對國人的日常的上班上課造成重大的一個影響那目前東正線雙向通車這個部分目前的運行都還算正常嗎是目前都還正常好那相關的我們對於啊這樣的一個"},{"start":354.434,"end":374.397,"text":"重大的延誤更重要的是我們要及時的通知我們的旅客不管是車站的告示牌不管是我們的官方網站以及相關的訊息像現在目前台鐵這樣造成重大的延誤我們通知旅客的訊息管道有哪幾樣來簡單說明一下"},{"start":376.359,"end":390.856,"text":"像以今天來講大概我們在群組我們有個群組不管是部裡面也要或是台鐵公司本身我也有參加這個是官方的一個通知的管道我現在講的是一般旅客受到影響實質受到影響的旅客"},{"start":391.056,"end":419.081,"text":"是 我跟委員報告剛剛講的我們這邊就會第一個會先成立一級應變小組像今天成立一級應變小組第二個把這些相關資訊會在各車站裡面去做一個告示多宣導跟旅客宣導那我們的採取應變措施是什麼那中間可能有一些比較期間的部分可能會因為這樣的為了讓長途可以走的話會取消這部分我想我們在的公告還有包括我們官網上都會做這樣一個公告的一個資訊的一個公告"},{"start":420.662,"end":437.86,"text":"這個是在橋樑上面那如果方副掉到河裡或是在整個重型機具要去把這一台方副的怪獸做處理的時候也是相當的困難這個都必須要緊急的一個快速處理"},{"start":439.682,"end":449.851,"text":"我接下來要問在五月底的時候我們鐵道局北部工程分局在處理集結A14車站的工程那"},{"start":451.28,"end":468.613,"text":"相關的分包商有傳出說以商務旅約服務的這樣一個名義邀請八名中國的技術人員短期入境那他們進入工區進行特殊的造型天花吸引內襯的技術指導來這個鐵道局楊局長你說明一下"},{"start":473.953,"end":500.255,"text":"跟委員報告我想這一個事件那就我們現在的這個查處的情況第一個這個是我們的一個下包商他對中國大陸所下的這樣的一個定料那這個採購行為目前我們的這個查明是符合採購法的相關規範因為他不是屬於機敏的這樣的一個設施設備按照採購法規定是可以做採購"},{"start":500.936,"end":529.373,"text":"好 雖然它是經過內政部移民署所通過審核的一個合法入境那它活動的範圍也在我們相關規範的特定工區裡面雖然您也說它不涉及基民以及相關的資安所造成的疑慮但是它終究是國家基礎建設的重要的採購跟施工的一個管理這不是一般的民間的商業行為"},{"start":530.874,"end":554.399,"text":"還是要提高警覺來做處理那尤其是中共他持續強化他們的黨組織對於他們企業的實質控制這個你也應該清楚其實他內涵的國安隱憂應該要受到更嚴格的一個檢視那其實我們看2021年中國48.3%的民間企業"},{"start":560.475,"end":562.166,"text":"都設有中國共產黨的"},{"start":565.889,"end":593.828,"text":"黨組織那他們前500大的企業有92%都設有黨組織這樣的一個嚴密的一個管制那中國的網路安全法跟國家情報法都明確的規定中國的企業跟公民都有為他們國家情報工作提供協助以及數據的收集的這樣的一個義務"},{"start":594.928,"end":607.742,"text":"那鐵道局認為說這只是一般的工程技術交流的定義來處理這一次的事件我是不能接受因為你們嚴重的低估了新型態的國安風險"},{"start":610.144,"end":639.184,"text":"市長說明一下跟委員報告這個確實剛剛提到他是依照程序去做一個申請那他活動會大概就在A14的那個天花那個工區不過剛剛委員所提到沒有錯現在目前中國大陸對我們的這些的一些算是滲透之類的我想我們不能輕忽以後這個部分我想我們會更用更嚴謹的態度來面對這個我想我們後續後來再要求鐵道局在工地上要再做"},{"start":640.825,"end":660.054,"text":"市長跟局長我再次的提醒交通部對於相關鐵道工程尤其是林軌工程的安全管理跟督導是最重要的責任我們已經發生過很嚴重造成重大傷亡社會永久傷痛的這樣的一個軌道事件那這一次"},{"start":661.175,"end":684.941,"text":"在苗栗竹南之間的這樣的一個橋樑上面所造成的怪手番戶這不是小事這除了對國人的上班上學日常生活造成重大的延誤之外也顯示我們的軌道安全真的是還有很大改進的空間這個不能再出狀況是好謝謝委員好謝謝李分責委員謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-18T09:12:56+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:12:57+08:00","text":"謝謝召委，請伍勝園次長、楊正君局長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T09:12:57+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:12:58+08:00","text":"請伍次長跟楊局長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:12:58+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:12:59+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-18T09:12:58.857000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:13:16.446000+08:00","text":"次長，我記得2021年在北迴線的清水隧道前，太魯閣自強號因為施工的工程車翻覆，造成重大的傷亡。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-18T09:13:18.307000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:13:38.261000+08:00","text":"2022年高雄的東南水泥施工導致電塔倒塌，造成重大的延誤，其實這兩件臨軌工程所造成的重大傷亡，或者是車輛延誤，都讓國人記憶猶新。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-18T09:13:41.965000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:14:07.321000+08:00","text":"今天凌晨5點多，苗栗到竹南之間的西正線也發生了怪手在鐵道橋梁上面因為修剪樹木造成翻覆，目前是以東正線進行雙向通車，什麼時候會恢復通車？","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-18T09:14:08.041000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:14:08.201000+08:00","text":"說明一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:14:09.241000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:14:33.251000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我想造成這個事件的原因是預期中的工作，跟之前所提到的那些不太一樣，預期的工作是要修剪樹木，因為在臨軌位置，所以怪手有去改裝上面的剪頭，在操作的時候它的手臂伸得太過去了，所以重心不穩，就這樣偏下去。","quality":0.832},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:14:34.393000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:14:43.142000+08:00","text":"這部分目前是像剛剛提到的，西正線暫停，東正線雙向通車，大概在中午以前可以完成改善。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-18T09:14:43.543000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:14:46.025000+08:00","text":"在中午以前可以完成通車？是。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-18T09:14:46.025000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:14:46.966000+08:00","text":"預計會影響多少班次？","quality":1},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:14:50.728000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:15:10.228000+08:00","text":"現在統計大概有6個班次停駛，影響的大概有30個班次，後續我們會再把對運轉的相關影響降到最低，包括以截長補短的方式來運轉。","quality":0.755},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-18T09:15:10.929000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:15:12.991000+08:00","text":"好，這是誰的怪手、誰的工程？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-18T09:15:13.351000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:15:15.833000+08:00","text":"是外包商在處理的嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:15:15.833000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:15:24.529000+08:00","text":"對，是臺鐵工程，委託外包商來操作，因為樹木有時候會侵入軌道，所以他去做樹木的修剪。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-18T09:15:24.669000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:15:47.653000+08:00","text":"我看這個怪手是開到鐵道的橋梁上面去做樹木修剪，當然，怪手的前緣可以裝置修剪樹木的相關器具，也可以上到這個軌道的橋梁上面，但這樣的工法你不會覺得非常奇特嗎？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:15:47.653000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:16:16.171000+08:00","text":"確實，在臨軌工程上，因為有一些地形上的限制，所以不得不如此，就是像剛剛提到的，那個怪手本來的履帶要變成膠輪，這樣可以保護軌道，然後因為只有軌道可以進去，旁邊也進不了，所以他為了把樹木修剪掉，只能從軌道進去，然後用怪手改裝的頭去做修剪樹木，這是不得不的做法。","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-18T09:16:16.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:16:40.137000+08:00","text":"好，在軌道的修復過程中，通常都會封閉相關的軌道，它是在清晨5點多相關的列車還沒有行駛之前翻覆，但如果是在列車通行的時間施工，也是會封鎖相關的軌道嘛，應該是這樣嘛！","quality":0.89},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:16:42.218000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:16:52.884000+08:00","text":"會，如果有侵入軌道之虞，且一定要施工，我們就一定會封鎖，甚至如果有感電之虞，我們也會斷電，這是我們的標準作業程序，一定會這樣做。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-18T09:16:55.146000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:17:10.375000+08:00","text":"現在在平時軌道車輛正常運行之間，如果臨時有異物入侵，你們相關的異物入侵系統裝置以及相關的處理程序是如何？","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:17:12.916000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:17:42.323000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，在幾個比較重要的點，譬如剛才提到的清水斷崖，我們在花東地質比較差的地方，現在都有做一些告警，也就是異物入侵的時候會有一些告警，那個部分會連到我們的行控中心，我們一知道後，就會立即通知當地的車輛停駛，然後由當地的工務段去做確認，確認沒問題以後才可以繼續開放行車。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-18T09:17:45.703000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:18:25.700000+08:00","text":"次長，我們對於鐵道相關的工程，尤其是臨軌工程，相關安全的維護是要百分之百不能打折扣的，我剛才已經提醒過你，2021年太魯閣自強號在清水隧道前所造成的重大傷亡，以及2022年東南水泥高塔倒塌，造成臺鐵、高鐵重大延誤，這都讓國人對於安全、對於營運效率的信心產生很大動搖。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-18T09:18:25.940000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:18:37.522000+08:00","text":"今天早上凌晨5點怪手翻覆，其實也對國人日常的上班、上課造成重大影響。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-18T09:18:37.702000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:18:42.683000+08:00","text":"目前東正線雙向通車這個部分的運行都還算正常嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:18:42.683000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:18:43.783000+08:00","text":"是，目前都還正常。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-18T09:18:44.283000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:19:10.257000+08:00","text":"好，對於這樣的重大延誤，更重要的是你們要即時通知旅客，不管是車站的告示牌，或是官方網站，以及相關的訊息，像目前臺鐵造成重大的延誤，你們通知旅客的訊息管道有哪幾樣？","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-18T09:19:10.257000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:19:10.377000+08:00","text":"簡單說明一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:19:12.599000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:19:19.207000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，以今天來講，我們有一個群組，不管是部裡面也好，或是臺鐵公司本身都在內，我也有參加……","quality":0.738},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-18T09:19:19.487000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:19:26.836000+08:00","text":"這個是官方的通知管道，我現在講的是一般旅客，實質受到影響的旅客。","quality":1},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:19:27.056000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:19:33.937000+08:00","text":"是，我跟委員報告，我剛剛講的是，我們這邊第一個會先成立一級應變小組，像今天就成立了一級應變小組。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:19:33.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:19:54.261000+08:00","text":"第二個會把這些相關資訊在各車站做告示，多跟旅客宣導我們採取的應變措施是什麼，中間有一些區間車可能會為了讓長途可以走而取消，這部分我想我們在公告還有官網上都會做資訊的刊登。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-18T09:19:56.662000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:20:13.840000+08:00","text":"好，這個是在橋梁上面，如果翻覆掉到河裡，或者是重型機具要處理這臺翻覆的怪手時，也是相當的困難，都必須要緊急的快速處理。是。","quality":0.796},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-18T09:20:15.682000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:20:44.593000+08:00","text":"我接下來要問，在5月底的時候，鐵道局北部工程分局在處理機捷A14車站的工程，有傳出相關的分包商以商務履約服務的名義，邀請8名中國的技術人員短期入境，他們進入工區進行特殊造型天花吸音內襯技術指導，請鐵道局楊局長說明一下。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"楊局長正君","start":"2026-06-18T09:20:49.953000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:21:16.255000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這個事件就我們現在的查處情況，第一個，這是我們的一個下包商對中國大陸所下的訂料，目前我們查明這個採購行為是符合採購法的相關規範，因為這不是屬於機敏的設施設備，按照採購法規定是可以採購。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-18T09:21:16.936000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:21:22.119000+08:00","text":"好，他們是經過內政部移民署所通過審核的合法入境。是的。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-18T09:21:24.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:21:49.335000+08:00","text":"他的活動範圍也在相關規範的特定工區裡面，雖然你也說他不涉及機敏以及相關資安所造成的疑慮，但這終究是國家基礎建設的重要採購跟施工管理，不是一般的民間商業行為，還是要提高警覺來做處理。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-18T09:21:51.175000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:22:08.278000+08:00","text":"尤其中共持續強化黨組織對於他們企業的實質控制，這個你也應該清楚，其實內涵的國安隱憂應該要受到更嚴格的檢視。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-18T09:22:09.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:22:32.096000+08:00","text":"我們看2021年，中國48.3%的民間企業都設有中國共產黨的黨組織，他們前五百大企業有92%都設有黨組織的嚴密管制。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-18T09:22:33.317000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:22:49.828000+08:00","text":"中國的網路安全法跟國家情報法都明確規定，中國的企業跟公民都有為他們國家情報工作提供協助以及數據蒐集的義務。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-18T09:22:51.669000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:23:06.805000+08:00","text":"鐵道局認為只是一般的工程技術交流的定義來處理這一次的事件，我是不能接受，因為你們嚴重低估了新型態的國安風險，請次長說明一下。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:23:07.885000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:23:16.831000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，確實剛剛提到他是依照程序去做申請，活動範圍大概只有在A14的天花工區。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:23:16.831000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:23:35.004000+08:00","text":"不過剛剛委員所提到的沒有錯，現在中國大陸對於我們這些算是滲透之類的行為，我們不能輕忽，以後這部分我們會用更嚴謹的態度來面對，後續會再要求鐵道局在工區上要再更謹慎。好。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-18T09:23:37.165000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:23:53.092000+08:00","text":"我再次地提醒次長跟局長，交通部對於相關鐵道工程，尤其是臨軌工程的安全、管理跟督導是最重要的責任，我們已經發生過很嚴重的軌道事件，造成重大傷亡，是社會永久的傷痛。","quality":0.795},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-06-18T09:23:55.754000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:24:18.881000+08:00","text":"這一次在苗栗竹南之間的橋梁上面所造成的怪手翻覆，這不是小事，除了對國人的上班、上學、日常生活造成重大的延誤之外，也顯示軌道安全真的還有很大的改進空間，這個不能再出狀況。","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:24:18.881000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:24:20.441000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T09:24:20.701000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:24:20.941000+08:00","text":"謝謝李昆澤委員。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T09:24:21.441000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:24:23.726714+08:00","text":"謝謝次長、謝謝局長。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T09:24:24.026714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:24:30.026714+08:00","text":"稍後洪孟楷委員質詢完之後，我們來處理臨時提案。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T09:24:30.326714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:24:33.469571+08:00","text":"接下來請洪孟楷委員發言。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":34,"blocks":[["李委員昆澤：（9時12分）謝謝召委，請伍勝園次長、楊正君局長。"],["主席：請伍次長跟楊局長。"],["伍次長勝園：委員好。"],["李委員昆澤：次長，我記得2021年在北迴線的清水隧道前，太魯閣自強號因為施工的工程車翻覆，造成重大的傷亡。2022年高雄的東南水泥施工導致電塔倒塌，造成重大的延誤，其實這兩件臨軌工程所造成的重大傷亡，或者是車輛延誤，都讓國人記憶猶新。今天凌晨5點多，苗栗到竹南之間的西正線也發生了怪手在鐵道橋梁上面因為修剪樹木造成翻覆，目前是以東正線進行雙向通車，什麼時候會恢復通車？說明一下。"],["伍次長勝園：跟委員報告，我想造成這個事件的原因是預期中的工作，跟之前所提到的那些不太一樣，預期的工作是要修剪樹木，因為在臨軌位置，所以怪手有去改裝上面的剪頭，在操作的時候它的手臂伸得太過去了，所以重心不穩，就這樣偏下去。這部分目前是像剛剛提到的，西正線暫停，東正線雙向通車，大概在中午以前可以完成改善。"],["李委員昆澤：在中午以前可以完成通車？"],["伍次長勝園：是。"],["李委員昆澤：預計會影響多少班次？"],["伍次長勝園：現在統計大概有6個班次停駛，影響的大概有30個班次，後續我們會再把對運轉的相關影響降到最低，包括以截長補短的方式來運轉。"],["李委員昆澤：好，這是誰的怪手、誰的工程？是外包商在處理的嗎？"],["伍次長勝園：對，是臺鐵工程，委託外包商來操作，因為樹木有時候會侵入軌道，所以他去做樹木的修剪。"],["李委員昆澤：我看這個怪手是開到鐵道的橋梁上面去做樹木修剪，當然，怪手的前緣可以裝置修剪樹木的相關器具，也可以上到這個軌道的橋梁上面，但這樣的工法你不會覺得非常奇特嗎？"],["伍次長勝園：確實，在臨軌工程上，因為有一些地形上的限制，所以不得不如此，就是像剛剛提到的，那個怪手本來的履帶要變成膠輪，這樣可以保護軌道，然後因為只有軌道可以進去，旁邊也進不了，所以他為了把樹木修剪掉，只能從軌道進去，然後用怪手改裝的頭去做修剪樹木，這是不得不的做法。"],["李委員昆澤：好，在軌道的修復過程中，通常都會封閉相關的軌道，它是在清晨5點多相關的列車還沒有行駛之前翻覆，但如果是在列車通行的時間施工，也是會封鎖相關的軌道嘛，應該是這樣嘛！"],["伍次長勝園：會，如果有侵入軌道之虞，且一定要施工，我們就一定會封鎖，甚至如果有感電之虞，我們也會斷電，這是我們的標準作業程序，一定會這樣做。"],["李委員昆澤：現在在平時軌道車輛正常運行之間，如果臨時有異物入侵，你們相關的異物入侵系統裝置以及相關的處理程序是如何？"],["伍次長勝園：跟委員報告，在幾個比較重要的點，譬如剛才提到的清水斷崖，我們在花東地質比較差的地方，現在都有做一些告警，也就是異物入侵的時候會有一些告警，那個部分會連到我們的行控中心，我們一知道後，就會立即通知當地的車輛停駛，然後由當地的工務段去做確認，確認沒問題以後才可以繼續開放行車。"],["李委員昆澤：次長，我們對於鐵道相關的工程，尤其是臨軌工程，相關安全的維護是要百分之百不能打折扣的，我剛才已經提醒過你，2021年太魯閣自強號在清水隧道前所造成的重大傷亡，以及2022年東南水泥高塔倒塌，造成臺鐵、高鐵重大延誤，這都讓國人對於安全、對於營運效率的信心產生很大動搖。今天早上凌晨5點怪手翻覆，其實也對國人日常的上班、上課造成重大影響。目前東正線雙向通車這個部分的運行都還算正常嗎？"],["伍次長勝園：是，目前都還正常。"],["李委員昆澤：好，對於這樣的重大延誤，更重要的是你們要即時通知旅客，不管是車站的告示牌，或是官方網站，以及相關的訊息，像目前臺鐵造成重大的延誤，你們通知旅客的訊息管道有哪幾樣？簡單說明一下。"],["伍次長勝園：我跟委員報告，以今天來講，我們有一個群組，不管是部裡面也好，或是臺鐵公司本身都在內，我也有參加……"],["李委員昆澤：這個是官方的通知管道，我現在講的是一般旅客，實質受到影響的旅客。"],["伍次長勝園：是，我跟委員報告，我剛剛講的是，我們這邊第一個會先成立一級應變小組，像今天就成立了一級應變小組。第二個會把這些相關資訊在各車站做告示，多跟旅客宣導我們採取的應變措施是什麼，中間有一些區間車可能會為了讓長途可以走而取消，這部分我想我們在公告還有官網上都會做資訊的刊登。"],["李委員昆澤：好，這個是在橋梁上面，如果翻覆掉到河裡，或者是重型機具要處理這臺翻覆的怪手時，也是相當的困難，都必須要緊急的快速處理。"],["伍次長勝園：是。"],["李委員昆澤：我接下來要問，在5月底的時候，鐵道局北部工程分局在處理機捷A14車站的工程，有傳出相關的分包商以商務履約服務的名義，邀請8名中國的技術人員短期入境，他們進入工區進行特殊造型天花吸音內襯技術指導，請鐵道局楊局長說明一下。"],["楊局長正君：跟委員報告，這個事件就我們現在的查處情況，第一個，這是我們的一個下包商對中國大陸所下的訂料，目前我們查明這個採購行為是符合採購法的相關規範，因為這不是屬於機敏的設施設備，按照採購法規定是可以採購。"],["李委員昆澤：好，他們是經過內政部移民署所通過審核的合法入境。"],["楊局長正君：是的。"],["李委員昆澤：他的活動範圍也在相關規範的特定工區裡面，雖然你也說他不涉及機敏以及相關資安所造成的疑慮，但這終究是國家基礎建設的重要採購跟施工管理，不是一般的民間商業行為，還是要提高警覺來做處理。","尤其中共持續強化黨組織對於他們企業的實質控制，這個你也應該清楚，其實內涵的國安隱憂應該要受到更嚴格的檢視。我們看2021年，中國48.3%的民間企業都設有中國共產黨的黨組織，他們前五百大企業有92%都設有黨組織的嚴密管制。中國的網路安全法跟國家情報法都明確規定，中國的企業跟公民都有為他們國家情報工作提供協助以及數據蒐集的義務。","鐵道局認為只是一般的工程技術交流的定義來處理這一次的事件，我是不能接受，因為你們嚴重低估了新型態的國安風險，請次長說明一下。"],["伍次長勝園：跟委員報告，確實剛剛提到他是依照程序去做申請，活動範圍大概只有在A14的天花工區。不過剛剛委員所提到的沒有錯，現在中國大陸對於我們這些算是滲透之類的行為，我們不能輕忽，以後這部分我們會用更嚴謹的態度來面對，後續會再要求鐵道局在工區上要再更謹慎。"],["李委員昆澤：好。我再次地提醒次長跟局長，交通部對於相關鐵道工程，尤其是臨軌工程的安全、管理跟督導是最重要的責任，我們已經發生過很嚴重的軌道事件，造成重大傷亡，是社會永久的傷痛。","這一次在苗栗竹南之間的橋梁上面所造成的怪手翻覆，這不是小事，除了對國人的上班、上學、日常生活造成重大的延誤之外，也顯示軌道安全真的還有很大的改進空間，這個不能再出狀況。"],["伍次長勝園：是，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝李昆澤委員。謝謝次長、謝謝局長。","稍後洪孟楷委員質詢完之後，我們來處理臨時提案。","接下來請洪孟楷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":514,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-23-19","speakers":["黃健豪","李昆澤","洪孟楷","陳雪生","林俊憲","徐富癸","許智傑","魯明哲","邱若華","萬美玲","蔡易餘","陳清龍","何欣純","陳素月","游顥","傅崐萁"],"page_start":477,"meetingDate":["2026-06-18"],"gazette_id":"1155303","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155303_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管交通作業基金─鐵\n道發展基金分預算；二、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主\n管交通作業基金─臺鐵局撥入資產及債務管理基金分預算（詢答）","agenda_id":"1155303_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}