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主席謝謝 不過 主席我先這個程序發言啦 建議因為主席這個腳真的有點受傷啦我們是不是請示也讓大家知道主席是不是今天就不要再站了啦 你就坐下來啦那也讓大家知道是說他不是不尊重各位而是因為確實主席他這個右腳 欸 腳有受傷啦所以我想說心疼也這個尊重好 你請坐啦請坐好"},{"start":32.212,"end":34.882,"text":"來 我們再請五次長好 請五次長"},{"start":42.065,"end":59.718,"text":"好 來次長剛剛那個昆城委員關心也是本席所重視就是說今天早上台鐵苗栗到竹南現在有延誤單線通車我想兩個部分因為現在新聞看到還是有點混亂您剛剛講是說12點以前會恢復通車像我剛剛看到有新聞以及台鐵這邊講是說預計上午9點就恢復正常通車9點跟12點還差3個小時啊到底"},{"start":70.365,"end":89.438,"text":"哪一個比較準我跟委員報告應該還沒有因為他那個繼續要去釣沒那麼容易他正好就在西征線上是西征要釣對這個整個要釣離因為他不是在車站區他在站間沒錯所以要釣離沒那麼容易旁邊沒有道路沒錯所以這部分應該我理解的應該因為現場畫面也出來了這個因為我沒有辦法"},{"start":92.18,"end":116.443,"text":"同時間秀在上面但是大家應該也都看到現場畫面他其實在橋上的這個怪手翻覆而且翻覆的有點嚴重啊他是整個這樣子傾斜好那另外還有講到也是新聞報導馬上寫說連桃園站都貼出公告列車也受影響所以其實這個影響範圍不是只有竹南苗栗到竹南喔可能是更往"},{"start":117.438,"end":132.472,"text":"北上南下都有受到影響會有一些低延的效應剛講會低延的效應越延當然到後面影響會越小那主要是在苗栗竹蘭間這個部分是西正線不能通在過去當然就通但是因為這邊的影響會往那邊一直擴散掉"},{"start":133.112,"end":155.511,"text":"所以本席再一次具體建議因為我們一個月前也才發生高鐵延誤的事件當時我就有說不管高鐵台鐵都是我們很重要的大眾運輸那最重要的是即時的資訊清楚確認影響的範圍有多廣以及到底什麼時間點可以完成一定要讓民眾有最清楚的了解"},{"start":156.752,"end":178.078,"text":"我們寧可料敵從寬因為如果說像剛剛我看到的上午九點就恢復正常通車那很顯然的這是過於樂觀的講法那可能對於譬如說早上十一點十二點他買對號座的車輛的民眾他也許覺得說早上九點就會恢復通車了沒想到他到了現場之後才發覺不是這麼一回事延誤的更久"},{"start":179.229,"end":203.141,"text":"所以未來這個資訊的掌握統一的發布以及拜託媒體朋友傳遞最正確的訊息讓民眾知道這一點應該要更加強是 謝偉的提示我想剛剛提到資訊的正確及時我想這是我們後面會努力的好 那等一下是不是也請次長要責成我們相關單位趕快跟台鐵公司再聯繫一下到底什麼時間點修復完畢 搶售完畢那還有"},{"start":205.642,"end":224.854,"text":"這件事情完了之後我也拜託次長是不是能夠做一個專案的檢討很顯然的您剛講是說這是一個例行的修繕的一個工程但用怪手然後怪手到時候重心不穩而導致翻覆那就代表說施工有問題啊代表說這個工法是有問題的"},{"start":227.407,"end":243.797,"text":"我跟委員報告因為他剛講旁邊沒有道路所以變成他只能在軌道上去做那因為他用樹木樹木一定要做修剪不然那個樹木未來哪一天長得太大影響到電車線其實就影響到路線市長我覺得這個部分就請"},{"start":245.018,"end":264.431,"text":"交通部這邊是不是針對這個事件來做一個檢討看有沒有其他更好妥善的方式因為這個是凌晨發生的影響比較少然後也沒有車案問題沒有人員傷亡但我們不希望這樣的事情再發生好不好那這樣子一個月內你們做個檢討針對這個事件那看有沒有更好的一個改善方法好不好"},{"start":265.151,"end":291.527,"text":"好來再來也是我們這個鐵道基金相關因為有跟台鐵有跟高鐵都有相關嘛那台鐵公司的金雞母台北車站一個月過去了我們一個多月前就在討論是說那個招標啊那到底是誰得標誰什麼我再一次強調台鐵公司今天有九家公司願意來招標來營運這個商場我是樂觀其成因為代表說大家對於台鐵"},{"start":292.828,"end":308.058,"text":"台北車站這個門面是有信心的大家也想經營更好但是美中部族就是發生了一個憾事就是有提前洩露然後台鐵給我們的回覆現在我看到一個月前跟我們回覆說內部調查完畢找不到內鬼是誰"},{"start":309.019,"end":328.556,"text":"所以報法務部廉政署請外部力量來調查那我請教一個月過去了到底找到這個洩密的管道了沒有目前還在據我了解應該目前還在還在了解這個洩密的相當相關的管道啦是 還在了解還是找不到"},{"start":329.356,"end":355.391,"text":"現在目前還沒有找到這看起來已經一個月過去了其實應該嚴格講起來算兩個月那台鐵公司也跟我們講是說持續要運作那台北車站的服務不能中斷這也是我們大家都共同關心的不要因為你的到底是接下來的房客是誰誰來經營而造成說旅客消費者的權益受損但到目前為止是沒有辦法找到的"},{"start":356.211,"end":379.966,"text":"那這就變羅生門啦這卸滅問題目前還在查啦那剛剛提到整個台北車站目前因為還沒有一個施政嘛所以當然依照程序繼續往下走我想這個服務台鐵公司在台北車站的這樣的服務我想不會中斷都不會中斷這個我想不會中斷是我們共同的要求嘛對不對交通部也要要求台鐵公司絕對不能"},{"start":380.706,"end":409.845,"text":"中斷服務而讓旅客的權益受損但是市長您認為有信心找到這個洩密的來源嗎還是無疾而終了再過一個月沒有人關心了那這件事情就傳過水無痕了因為台鐵公司內部其實花了很多時間去查是確實是目前是沒查到所以才想說會藉由外力聯繫組那邊來協助看看那這個我們就看一下我們就等著看那個"},{"start":411.266,"end":440.106,"text":"廉政署那邊的他們查的情況是怎麼樣有沒有做啊我是很希望是我們每一件事情都是做真的不是說敷衍了事這剛剛跟次長你比較沒有那麼直接關係因為畢竟是台鐵公司內部的一個狀況但是我們身為上級主管機關督導機關我們還是要善盡督導主管之責啦我只是真的很希望是說不要每一次事情都是風頭上大家關心那風頭過了好像現在普遍蔓延一個氣氛"},{"start":441.866,"end":462.474,"text":"撐一撐嘛 風頭過了沒有人關心了這件事情也就這樣了我覺得這樣不好啦來最後 市長那個鐵道局局長也一起上來好不好 來我們淡江大橋5月12號通車大家也都很歡迎期待那也就講到了現在淡海"},{"start":463.354,"end":489.174,"text":"交通三建淡江大橋我們現在已經在中央地方共同努力完成了淡北連外道路現在也在興建了還有最重要一個拼圖就是淡海輕軌藍海線二期那這已經呈報了十多次了我就不再贅述之前的狀況那最新新北市政府也已經在回呈報給我們鐵道局鐵道局目前是說都已經審核完畢對不對來說明一下我們現在進度"},{"start":492.73,"end":499.406,"text":"跟委員報告那目前我們已經最新就是協助完成這個初餐的這個相關審查的程序"},{"start":500.813,"end":528.999,"text":"好 那現在進度是什麼報行政院了還沒有還沒有報行政院因為行政院當初的這個退回來的要求是希望能夠就淡海二期的這個修正計畫先行核定之後再來報巴黎的這樣的一個輕軌不是 我現在講的是淡海輕軌 藍海先二期你講的是巴黎輕軌巴黎輕軌行政院的要求是希望我現在在問的是淡海輕軌 藍海先二期報行政院了沒已經報行政院了是嗎6月1號"},{"start":531.397,"end":544.815,"text":"我還想說兩天前跟我講說報行政院的人不也是你嗎你怎麼會現在跟我講說還沒報行政院報了嘛 6月1號已經報行政院了嘛那淡海青鬼 南海縣二期你們的審查意見是什麼"},{"start":545.967,"end":574.806,"text":"你們報行政院你們的審查一定有你們的主觀認定嘛你們認定這個大海清鬼 賴海仙 賀啟這一次新北市政府報過來成不成熟完不完整了解 我們的審查就是經過沒有意見才會送到院裡面是 沒有意見就代表說新北市政府這一次報出來的計畫是完整的確實的有回答過去我們所提出來的問題並且也已經補齊了問題解方所以認為是如果說現在"},{"start":576.247,"end":585.916,"text":"通過的話馬上可以實行而且他是確實可行的對不對是的當然等待行政院最後的審議好那行政院這個就要拜託次長了"},{"start":587.119,"end":615.534,"text":"市長淡水人已經期待太久了那藍海線二旗其實距離不長我簡單科普一下大家也都最近都去這個淡水然後淡江大橋看嘛藍海線二旗最重要就是補足最後一里路因為現在輕軌也已經綠三線 藍海線都已經在營運綠三線整個繞這個山區藍海線現在是只有三站但我們最重要藍海線二旗是從淡水捷運站"},{"start":616.774,"end":640.634,"text":"連接沿著金色水岸連接到漁人碼頭如果說未來這一段補期的話整個淡海輕軌它就變成是一個circle它就變是一個可以這個循環的那到時候民眾就可以從淡水紅樹林捷運站坐綠山線繞到漁人碼頭再坐南海線二期再回來淡水捷運站"},{"start":641.574,"end":662.439,"text":"這樣整個也跟淡水線的捷運都做一個完整的串聯我想這也對於整個捷運路廣是最好的不管是運輸經濟以及整個規模都是最好的好那現在既然鐵道局也專業的意見都認為說新北市政府補齊了次長能不能也幫幫忙可以我想也跟行政院這邊再督促一下"},{"start":663.419,"end":690.176,"text":"不要再卡了 趕快核定吧我跟委員報告 其實當海清軌當時大概有一個問題就是他那個路線跟當地的商家有一些不一樣的看法那個早就解決了所以這一次是因為他們已經有補期補充說他們跟當地的溝通的結果所以我們看一看 既然他已經溝通了其實溝通了五年 然後這個也本來都已經溝通完畢但是少數人的意見"},{"start":691.601,"end":708.791,"text":"有意見尊重都好事但現在新北市府都已經完成了所以送鐵道局鐵道局才會核備也認為說可以了才往行政院送嘛那現在其實就是等行政院要不要趕快核定因為最專業的鐵道局都已經認為說沒有問題了那就已經不是專業的問題了"},{"start":710.632,"end":720.982,"text":"那就不要有政治因素在裡面 競訴核定趕快來催促一下看行政院這邊能不能趕快來加速 簽核公文這樣可以嗎好 這我們來努力好 我們一起努力 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:24:44.186000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:24:44.326000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:24:45.507000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:25:06.905000+08:00","text":"主席，我先程序發言，因為主席的腳有點受傷，是不是請示主席，也讓大家知道，我建議是不是今天主席不要再站起來，就坐下來，也讓大家知道主席不是不尊重各位，而是因為主席的腳確實受傷了？","quality":0.57},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:25:07.425000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:25:09.507000+08:00","text":"我是心疼也基於尊重。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:25:10.487000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:25:10.848000+08:00","text":"你請坐。謝謝。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:25:11.388000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:25:16.420000+08:00","text":"請伍次長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T09:25:16.742000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:25:16.882000+08:00","text":"請伍次長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:25:16.882000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:25:24.345000+08:00","text":"委員早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:25:24.345000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:25:34.993000+08:00","text":"次長，剛剛昆澤委員關心的問題，也是本席所重視的，就是今天早上臺鐵苗栗到竹南有延誤，現在單線通車。","quality":0.837},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:25:34.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:25:38.835000+08:00","text":"我想就兩個部分，因為現在看到新聞還是有點混亂，您剛剛講是12點以前會恢復通車。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:25:38.835000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:25:39.835000+08:00","text":"對，目前……","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:25:38.896000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:25:40.917000+08:00","text":"但我剛剛看到新聞報導以及臺鐵這邊講，是說預計上午9點就恢復正常通車。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:25:40.917000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:25:52.865000+08:00","text":"9點跟12點還差3個小時，到底哪一個比較準？","quality":1},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:25:53.046000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:26:08.356000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，應該還沒有，因為那部分機具要去吊沒那麼容易，它正好就在西正線上，整個要吊離，因為不是在車站區，而是在站間，所以要吊離沒那麼容易，旁邊沒有道路。沒錯。","quality":0.845},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:26:08.356000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:26:10.598000+08:00","text":"所以這部分就我理解應該不會那麼快。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:26:10.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:26:24.690000+08:00","text":"現場畫面也出來了，因為我沒有辦法同時間秀在螢幕上面，但是大家應該也都看到現場畫面，橋上的怪手翻覆，而且翻覆得有點嚴重，它是整個這樣子傾斜。","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:26:26.132000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:26:41.200000+08:00","text":"另外，新聞報導還有講到，連桃園站都貼出公告列車也受影響，所以其實影響範圍不是只有苗栗到竹南，可能是北上南下都有受到影響。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:26:41.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:26:54.251000+08:00","text":"會有一些遞延的效應，剛剛講會有遞延效應，越遠當然到後面影響會越小，主要是在苗栗、竹南間，這個部分是西正線不能通，再過去當然就通，但是因為這邊的影響會一直往那邊擴散，但是沒那麼嚴重就是了。","quality":0.774},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:26:55.112000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:27:17.491000+08:00","text":"所以本席再一次具體建議，因為一個月前才發生高鐵延誤的事件，當時我就有說，不管高鐵、臺鐵都是我們很重要的大眾運輸，最重要的是即時的資訊清楚，確認影響的範圍有多廣，以及到底什麼時間點可以完成，一定要讓民眾有最清楚的了解。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:27:18.752000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:27:40.058000+08:00","text":"我們寧可料敵從寬，因為如果像剛剛我看到的報導表示上午9點就恢復正常通車，很顯然的，這是過於樂觀的講法，可能對於譬如說早上11點、12點買對號座車輛的民眾，他也許覺得早上9點就會恢復通車了，他到現場之後才發覺不是這麼一回事，沒想到會延誤得更久。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:27:41.229000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:27:51.114000+08:00","text":"所以未來關於資訊的掌握、統一的發布，以及拜託媒體朋友傳遞最正確的訊息讓民眾知道，這部分應該要更加強。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:27:51.114000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:27:52.535000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝委員的提示。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:27:53.275000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:27:57.977000+08:00","text":"剛剛提到的資訊正確、即時，我想這是我們後續會努力的……","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:27:58.378000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:28:04.601000+08:00","text":"等一下是不是也請次長責成你們相關單位，趕快跟臺鐵公司再聯繫一下，確認到底什麼時間點搶修完畢？","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:28:04.601000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:28:05.601000+08:00","text":"有，臺鐵公司在這邊。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:28:05.121000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:28:12.385000+08:00","text":"還有這件事情完了之後，我也拜託次長，是不是能夠做一個專案的檢討？可以。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:28:13.626000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:28:26.834000+08:00","text":"您剛剛說這是一個例行的修樹工程，但是用怪手，然後怪手重心不穩而導致翻覆，很顯然地，就代表施工有問題，代表這個工法是有問題的。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:28:29.407000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:28:44.597000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，剛剛講旁邊沒有道路，沒有空間了，所以變成只能在軌道上做，因為樹木一定要修剪，不然未來樹木哪一天長得太大而影響到電車線，其實就影響到路線。","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:28:44.977000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:28:51.861000+08:00","text":"次長，這個部分就請交通部這邊是不是針對這個事件來做檢討，看有沒有其他更好、更妥善的方式？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:28:52.001000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:28:59.666000+08:00","text":"因為這個是在凌晨發生，影響比較少，然後也沒有車安問題，沒有人員傷亡，但我們不希望這種事情再發生，好不好？","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:28:59.666000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:29:01.227000+08:00","text":"可以，好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:29:01.227000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:29:07.151000+08:00","text":"一個月內你們做個檢討，針對這個事件看有沒有更好的改善方法，好不好？好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:29:07.811000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:29:13.015000+08:00","text":"再來也是跟鐵道基金相關，因為跟臺鐵、高鐵都有相關。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:29:14.055000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:29:42.854000+08:00","text":"臺鐵公司的金雞母臺北車站，一個月過去了，我們一個多月前就在討論招標到底是誰得標，我再一次強調，臺鐵公司這個標案有9家公司願意來投標營運商場，我是樂觀其成，代表大家對於臺北車站這個門面是有信心的，大家也想經營得更好，但是美中不足發生了一個憾事，就是提前洩漏。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:29:45.996000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:29:55.783000+08:00","text":"現在我看到一個月前臺鐵給我們的回復是內部調查完畢，找不到內鬼是誰，所以報請法務部廉政署由外部力量來調查。","quality":0.837},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:29:56.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:30:00.347000+08:00","text":"我請教：一個月過去了，找到洩密管道了嗎？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:30:01.948000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:30:08.674000+08:00","text":"據我了解，目前應該還在了解洩密的相關管道中。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:30:08.954000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:30:10.536000+08:00","text":"是還在了解，還是找不到？","quality":1},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:30:11.516000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:30:12.517000+08:00","text":"目前還沒有找到。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:30:14.758000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:30:18.240000+08:00","text":"已經一個月過去了，嚴格講起來應該算兩個月。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:30:19.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:30:27.465000+08:00","text":"臺鐵公司也跟我們說要持續運作，臺北車站的服務不能中斷，這也是大家所共同關心的。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:30:27.925000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:30:35.770000+08:00","text":"不要因為接下來的房客到底是誰、由誰來經營，而造成旅客與消費者的權益受損。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:30:35.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:30:37.191000+08:00","text":"但到目前為止，還是沒有辦法找到？對……","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:30:38.211000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:30:40.072000+08:00","text":"那就變成羅生門了！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:30:40.773000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:30:41.893000+08:00","text":"洩密問題目前還在查，但目前還沒有事證。","quality":0.412},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:30:43.835000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:30:55.061000+08:00","text":"至於臺北車站，也當然會依照程序繼續往下走，我想臺鐵公司在臺北車站的服務不會中斷，都不會中斷！","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:30:55.322000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:30:57.723000+08:00","text":"不會中斷是我們的共同要求。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:30:57.723000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:30:59.524000+08:00","text":"對，一定會……","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:30:59.524000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:31:05.468000+08:00","text":"交通部也會要求臺鐵公司絕對不能中斷服務，讓旅客權益受損……是。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:31:06.228000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:31:09.851000+08:00","text":"次長，您有信心找到洩密來源嗎？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:31:09.851000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:31:10.751000+08:00","text":"還是就無疾而終？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:31:10.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:31:15.535000+08:00","text":"反正再過一個月也沒有人關心了，這件事情就船過水無痕了？","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:31:15.975000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:31:36.348000+08:00","text":"臺鐵公司內部其實花了很多時間去查，但目前確實沒查到，所以才想說藉由外力即廉政署來協助看看，我們就等著看廉政署查的情況是怎麼樣。","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:31:36.348000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:31:36.989000+08:00","text":"有沒有做啊？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:31:38.130000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:31:43.273000+08:00","text":"我很希望每一件事情都是做真的，而不是敷衍了事！","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:31:44.214000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:31:48.256000+08:00","text":"這當然跟次長您比較沒有直接關係，畢竟是臺鐵公司內部的狀況。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:31:48.256000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:31:53.400000+08:00","text":"但身為上級主管機關、督導機關，還是要善盡主管督導之責。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:31:54.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:32:10.469000+08:00","text":"我真的很希望不要每一次事情發生了，大家都只在風頭上關心，風頭過了……好像現在普遍蔓延一種氣氛，就是撐一撐，等風頭過了就沒有人關心了，這件事情也就這樣了，我覺得這樣不好啦！","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:32:11.409000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:32:14.410000+08:00","text":"最後，請鐵道局局長一起上來。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:32:16.011000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:32:25.694000+08:00","text":"淡江大橋5月12號通車，大家都很歡迎、期待，不過也同時講到淡海的交通三箭。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:32:26.595000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:32:37.223000+08:00","text":"淡江大橋在中央、地方的共同努力下完成了；至於淡北聯外道路現在也在興建；還有一塊最重要的拼圖，也就是淡海輕軌、藍海線二期。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:32:38.264000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:32:42.007000+08:00","text":"這已經呈報十多次，我就不再贅述之前的狀況。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:32:42.207000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:32:50.614000+08:00","text":"目前最新狀況是，新北市政府呈報給鐵道局，鐵道局都說已經審核完畢，對不對？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:32:50.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:32:51.154000+08:00","text":"請說明一下現在的進度。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"楊局長正君","start":"2026-06-18T09:32:54.730000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:33:01.386000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，目前最新狀況是已經協助完成促參的相關審查程序。","quality":0.741},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:33:01.386000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:33:03.733000+08:00","text":"促參審查？","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:33:03.733000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:33:05.114000+08:00","text":"現在進度是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:33:05.114000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:33:05.534000+08:00","text":"報行政院了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊局長正君","start":"2026-06-18T09:33:05.994000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:33:06.114000+08:00","text":"還沒有……","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:33:06.254000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:33:07.714000+08:00","text":"還沒有報行政院？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊局長正君","start":"2026-06-18T09:33:08.494000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:33:20.857000+08:00","text":"當初行政院退回來的要求，是希望能就淡海二期的修正計畫先行核定之後，再報八里輕軌……","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:33:20.857000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:33:24.998000+08:00","text":"不是，我現在講的是淡海輕軌、藍海線二期，你講的是八里輕軌……","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"楊局長正君","start":"2026-06-18T09:33:24.998000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:33:25.998000+08:00","text":"我知道。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊局長正君","start":"2026-06-18T09:33:25.478000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:33:26.858000+08:00","text":"對八里輕軌，行政院的要求是希望……","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:33:27.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:33:29.819000+08:00","text":"我現在問的是淡海輕軌、藍海線二期報行政院了沒？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"楊局長正君","start":"2026-06-18T09:33:29.959000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:33:30.999000+08:00","text":"已經報行政院了。是嘛！6月1號。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:33:33.397000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:33:37.703000+08:00","text":"我還在想兩天前說報行政院的人不也是你嗎？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:33:37.703000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:33:39.746000+08:00","text":"你怎麼現在跟我講還沒報行政院？","quality":1},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:33:40.767000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:33:40.767000+08:00","text":"已經報了。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:33:41.368000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:33:42.409000+08:00","text":"6月1號已經報行政院？","quality":1},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:33:42.409000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:33:43.571000+08:00","text":"報行政院了。報了。","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:33:43.571000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:33:46.815000+08:00","text":"對於淡海輕軌、藍海線二期，你們的審查意見是什麼？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:33:47.967000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:33:57.834000+08:00","text":"你們報行政院、你們的審查一定有你們的主觀認定，你們認定這次新北市政府報過來的淡海輕軌、藍海線二期計畫成不成熟？","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:33:58.274000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:33:58.714000+08:00","text":"完不完整？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊局長正君","start":"2026-06-18T09:33:59.034000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:34:03.617000+08:00","text":"了解，我們的審查結果就是沒有意見才會送到院裡面！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:34:04.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:34:14.425000+08:00","text":"沒有意見就代表新北市政府這次報出來的計畫是完整的、確實的，有回答過去鐵道局所提出來的問題，也補齊問題的解方……是。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:34:15.385000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:34:22.852000+08:00","text":"所以你們認為如果現在通過的話，馬上可以實行，而且是確實可行的，對不對？","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"楊局長正君","start":"2026-06-18T09:34:22.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:34:25.154000+08:00","text":"是的，但還是要等待行政院最後的審議。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:34:25.154000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:34:30.220000+08:00","text":"好，行政院這部分就要拜託次長了，次長？好。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:34:30.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:34:31.740000+08:00","text":"淡水人已經期待太久了！","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:34:33.661000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:34:38.164000+08:00","text":"藍海線二期的距離其實不長，我簡單科普一下。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:34:38.284000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:34:44.207000+08:00","text":"相信大家最近都有去淡水，去看淡江大橋，藍海線二期最重要的就是補足最後一哩路。","quality":0.771},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:34:44.847000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:35:03.058000+08:00","text":"現在輕軌的綠山線、藍海線都已經在營運，綠山線繞整個山區，但藍海線現在只有三站，所以藍海線二期最重要的是從淡水捷運站，沿著金色水岸連接到漁人碼頭。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:35:03.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:35:34.617000+08:00","text":"如果未來這段補齊，那麼整個淡海輕軌就變成一個circle，是可以循環的，到時候民眾可以從淡水紅樹林捷運站坐綠山線繞到漁人碼頭，再坐藍海線二期回來淡水捷運站，與捷運淡水線做完整的串聯，我想這對整個捷運路網是最好的，不管是運輸、經濟以及整個規模都是最好的。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:35:35.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:35:41.638000+08:00","text":"好，既然鐵道局的專業意見也認為新北市政府補齊了，次長能不能也幫幫忙？","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:35:42.298000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:35:42.698000+08:00","text":"可以，我想……","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:35:42.818000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:35:48.061000+08:00","text":"也再督促一下行政院，不要再卡了，趕快核定吧！","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:35:48.741000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:35:58.127000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，其實當時淡海輕軌有一個問題，也就是路線與當地商家有些不一樣的看法……","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:35:58.187000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:35:59.088000+08:00","text":"那個問題早就解決了。對。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:35:59.828000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:36:06.192000+08:00","text":"這次是因為已經補齊，有補充他們與當地溝通的結果，我們也看了看，既然已經溝通了……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:36:07.093000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:36:08.134000+08:00","text":"其實溝通了五年！","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:36:09.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:36:22.086000+08:00","text":"本來就已經溝通完畢，只是少數人的意見……有意見、尊重都是好事，既然現在新北市府都已經完成了才送鐵道局，而鐵道局也核備，認為說可以了才往行政院送。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:36:22.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:36:23.086000+08:00","text":"是，也送行政院了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:36:23.067000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:36:41.421000+08:00","text":"現在就是等行政院要不要趕快核定，畢竟最專業的鐵道局都已經認為沒有問題了，所以已經不是專業的問題了，如此就不要有政治因素在裡面，儘速核定，趕快來催促一下，看行政院能不能趕快加速簽核公文，這樣可以嗎？","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:36:41.421000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:36:42.161000+08:00","text":"好，這我們來努力。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-06-18T09:36:42.341000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:36:42.982000+08:00","text":"好，我們一起努力，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:36:43.482000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:36:44.482000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T09:36:44.782000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:36:48.782000+08:00","text":"謝謝洪孟楷委員，謝謝楊局長、次長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T09:36:49.082000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:36:53.653429+08:00","text":"現在先處理臨時提案，請議事人員宣讀。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T09:36:53.953429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:37:15.667714+08:00","text":"鑑於我國擁有高達1,440萬輛機車，但機車於道路設計上之定位卻長期不明，近期諸多道路工程屢屢引發實體分隔機車道過窄之爭議，凸顯出現行機車安全規範長期被忽視的結構性問題。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T09:37:15.967714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:37:37.110571+08:00","text":"然對於「車道寬度」之定義與計算基準，現行法規（如《公路路線設計規範》）缺乏明確規範，對於計算標準究竟是「標線線心到線心」抑或僅要求「土木工程橫斷面淨寬」，各界認知出現嚴重分歧。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T09:37:37.410571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:37:52.267714+08:00","text":"此定義不清之問題，甚至導致交通部運輸研究所出版之《2022台灣公路容量手冊》在進行機車道效率評估時，各模型產生極大之誤差。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T09:37:52.567714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:38:05.996286+08:00","text":"事實上，我國車道寬度規範過去多直接沿用美國早期標準，極度缺乏針對本土龐大機車族群的交通安全實證研究。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T09:38:06.296286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:38:22.582000+08:00","text":"近期的交通事故數據實證更指出，在車流量條件相同的情況下，實體分隔機車道橋梁的機車傷亡事故，反而比汽機車混流橋梁高出2至4倍多。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T09:38:22.882000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:38:33.739143+08:00","text":"學者專家亦呼籲，應拋棄過往單純的「車種分流」思維，透過實證研究探討改採「車速分流」之設計。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T09:38:34.039143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:38:43.753429+08:00","text":"道路設計規範為保障用路人生命安全的基本防線，規範不應僅是最低限度的要求。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T09:38:44.053429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:39:07.482000+08:00","text":"若交通部持續沿用缺乏本土實證數據支持之舊規範，且遲未釐清車道寬度之統一定義，恐導致全台各項新建及改建道路工程僅求合乎規範、卻罔顧實質安全，製造容易引發追撞與擦撞的高風險環境。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T09:39:07.782000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:39:30.067714+08:00","text":"爰此，要求交通部應責成相關單位，針對「各法規中車道寬度之統一定義與計算方式」進行跨部會之全面檢討，並啟動針對「機車道配置、實體分隔與汽機車混流安全性」的本土交通安全評估報告。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T09:39:30.367714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:39:38.653429+08:00","text":"以完善我國道路設計規範，並請於一個月內向本委員會提出專案報告。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T09:39:38.953429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:39:41.524857+08:00","text":"黃健豪　　邱若華　　洪孟楷","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T09:39:41.824857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:39:46.967714+08:00","text":"請問各位委員及行政單位有沒有補充意見？","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳司長東凌","start":"2026-06-18T09:39:47.267714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:39:49.267714+08:00","text":"感謝召委的提案。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳司長東凌","start":"2026-06-18T09:39:49.567714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:39:54.996286+08:00","text":"本案可不可以容許我們稍微做一點文字修改？","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳司長東凌","start":"2026-06-18T09:39:55.296286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:40:08.153429+08:00","text":"在倒數第2行「實證研究」建議改成「評估報告」；「請於一個月內」的「一個月」改成「三個月」；最後的「專案報告」改成「書面報告」。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T09:40:08.453429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:40:09.882000+08:00","text":"好，修正通過。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T09:40:10.182000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:40:19.039143+08:00","text":"臨時提案已經處理完畢，如果委員對於上述提案補簽，列入紀錄，並刊登公報。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T09:40:19.339143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:40:22.767714+08:00","text":"現在繼續請陳雪生委員發言。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":73,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（9時24分）謝謝主席。主席，我先程序發言，因為主席的腳有點受傷，是不是請示主席，也讓大家知道，我建議是不是今天主席不要再站起來，就坐下來，也讓大家知道主席不是不尊重各位，而是因為主席的腳確實受傷了？我是心疼也基於尊重。你請坐。"],["主席：謝謝。"],["洪委員孟楷：請伍次長。"],["主席：請伍次長。"],["伍次長勝園：委員早。"],["洪委員孟楷：次長，剛剛昆澤委員關心的問題，也是本席所重視的，就是今天早上臺鐵苗栗到竹南有延誤，現在單線通車。我想就兩個部分，因為現在看到新聞還是有點混亂，您剛剛講是12點以前會恢復通車。"],["伍次長勝園：對，目前……"],["洪委員孟楷：但我剛剛看到新聞報導以及臺鐵這邊講，是說預計上午9點就恢復正常通車。9點跟12點還差3個小時，到底哪一個比較準？"],["伍次長勝園：我跟委員報告，應該還沒有，因為那部分機具要去吊沒那麼容易，它正好就在西正線上，整個要吊離，因為不是在車站區，而是在站間，所以要吊離沒那麼容易，旁邊沒有道路。"],["洪委員孟楷：沒錯。"],["伍次長勝園：所以這部分就我理解應該不會那麼快。"],["洪委員孟楷：現場畫面也出來了，因為我沒有辦法同時間秀在螢幕上面，但是大家應該也都看到現場畫面，橋上的怪手翻覆，而且翻覆得有點嚴重，它是整個這樣子傾斜。","另外，新聞報導還有講到，連桃園站都貼出公告列車也受影響，所以其實影響範圍不是只有苗栗到竹南，可能是北上南下都有受到影響。"],["伍次長勝園：會有一些遞延的效應，剛剛講會有遞延效應，越遠當然到後面影響會越小，主要是在苗栗、竹南間，這個部分是西正線不能通，再過去當然就通，但是因為這邊的影響會一直往那邊擴散，但是沒那麼嚴重就是了。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以本席再一次具體建議，因為一個月前才發生高鐵延誤的事件，當時我就有說，不管高鐵、臺鐵都是我們很重要的大眾運輸，最重要的是即時的資訊清楚，確認影響的範圍有多廣，以及到底什麼時間點可以完成，一定要讓民眾有最清楚的了解。我們寧可料敵從寬，因為如果像剛剛我看到的報導表示上午9點就恢復正常通車，很顯然的，這是過於樂觀的講法，可能對於譬如說早上11點、12點買對號座車輛的民眾，他也許覺得早上9點就會恢復通車了，他到現場之後才發覺不是這麼一回事，沒想到會延誤得更久。所以未來關於資訊的掌握、統一的發布，以及拜託媒體朋友傳遞最正確的訊息讓民眾知道，這部分應該要更加強。"],["伍次長勝園：是，謝謝委員的提示。剛剛提到的資訊正確、即時，我想這是我們後續會努力的……"],["洪委員孟楷：等一下是不是也請次長責成你們相關單位，趕快跟臺鐵公司再聯繫一下，確認到底什麼時間點搶修完畢？"],["伍次長勝園：有，臺鐵公司在這邊。"],["洪委員孟楷：還有這件事情完了之後，我也拜託次長，是不是能夠做一個專案的檢討？"],["伍次長勝園：可以。"],["洪委員孟楷：您剛剛說這是一個例行的修樹工程，但是用怪手，然後怪手重心不穩而導致翻覆，很顯然地，就代表施工有問題，代表這個工法是有問題的。"],["伍次長勝園：我跟委員報告，剛剛講旁邊沒有道路，沒有空間了，所以變成只能在軌道上做，因為樹木一定要修剪，不然未來樹木哪一天長得太大而影響到電車線，其實就影響到路線。"],["洪委員孟楷：次長，這個部分就請交通部這邊是不是針對這個事件來做檢討，看有沒有其他更好、更妥善的方式？因為這個是在凌晨發生，影響比較少，然後也沒有車安問題，沒有人員傷亡，但我們不希望這種事情再發生，好不好？"],["伍次長勝園：可以，好。"],["洪委員孟楷：一個月內你們做個檢討，針對這個事件看有沒有更好的改善方法，好不好？"],["伍次長勝園：好。"],["洪委員孟楷：再來也是跟鐵道基金相關，因為跟臺鐵、高鐵都有相關。臺鐵公司的金雞母臺北車站，一個月過去了，我們一個多月前就在討論招標到底是誰得標，我再一次強調，臺鐵公司這個標案有9家公司願意來投標營運商場，我是樂觀其成，代表大家對於臺北車站這個門面是有信心的，大家也想經營得更好，但是美中不足發生了一個憾事，就是提前洩漏。現在我看到一個月前臺鐵給我們的回復是內部調查完畢，找不到內鬼是誰，所以報請法務部廉政署由外部力量來調查。我請教：一個月過去了，找到洩密管道了嗎？"],["伍次長勝園：據我了解，目前應該還在了解洩密的相關管道中。"],["洪委員孟楷：是還在了解，還是找不到？"],["伍次長勝園：目前還沒有找到。"],["洪委員孟楷：已經一個月過去了，嚴格講起來應該算兩個月。臺鐵公司也跟我們說要持續運作，臺北車站的服務不能中斷，這也是大家所共同關心的。不要因為接下來的房客到底是誰、由誰來經營，而造成旅客與消費者的權益受損。但到目前為止，還是沒有辦法找到？"],["伍次長勝園：對……"],["洪委員孟楷：那就變成羅生門了！"],["伍次長勝園：洩密問題目前還在查，但目前還沒有事證。至於臺北車站，也當然會依照程序繼續往下走，我想臺鐵公司在臺北車站的服務不會中斷，都不會中斷！"],["洪委員孟楷：不會中斷是我們的共同要求。"],["伍次長勝園：對，一定會……"],["洪委員孟楷：交通部也會要求臺鐵公司絕對不能中斷服務，讓旅客權益受損……"],["伍次長勝園：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：次長，您有信心找到洩密來源嗎？還是就無疾而終？反正再過一個月也沒有人關心了，這件事情就船過水無痕了？"],["伍次長勝園：臺鐵公司內部其實花了很多時間去查，但目前確實沒查到，所以才想說藉由外力即廉政署來協助看看，我們就等著看廉政署查的情況是怎麼樣。"],["洪委員孟楷：有沒有做啊？我很希望每一件事情都是做真的，而不是敷衍了事！這當然跟次長您比較沒有直接關係，畢竟是臺鐵公司內部的狀況。但身為上級主管機關、督導機關，還是要善盡主管督導之責。我真的很希望不要每一次事情發生了，大家都只在風頭上關心，風頭過了……好像現在普遍蔓延一種氣氛，就是撐一撐，等風頭過了就沒有人關心了，這件事情也就這樣了，我覺得這樣不好啦！","最後，請鐵道局局長一起上來。淡江大橋5月12號通車，大家都很歡迎、期待，不過也同時講到淡海的交通三箭。淡江大橋在中央、地方的共同努力下完成了；至於淡北聯外道路現在也在興建；還有一塊最重要的拼圖，也就是淡海輕軌、藍海線二期。這已經呈報十多次，我就不再贅述之前的狀況。目前最新狀況是，新北市政府呈報給鐵道局，鐵道局都說已經審核完畢，對不對？請說明一下現在的進度。"],["楊局長正君：跟委員報告，目前最新狀況是已經協助完成促參的相關審查程序。"],["洪委員孟楷：促參審查？現在進度是什麼？報行政院了？"],["楊局長正君：還沒有……"],["洪委員孟楷：還沒有報行政院？"],["楊局長正君：當初行政院退回來的要求，是希望能就淡海二期的修正計畫先行核定之後，再報八里輕軌……"],["洪委員孟楷：不是，我現在講的是淡海輕軌、藍海線二期，你講的是八里輕軌……"],["楊局長正君：我知道。對八里輕軌，行政院的要求是希望……"],["洪委員孟楷：我現在問的是淡海輕軌、藍海線二期報行政院了沒？"],["楊局長正君：已經報行政院了。"],["洪委員孟楷：是嘛！"],["楊局長正君：6月1號。"],["洪委員孟楷：我還在想兩天前說報行政院的人不也是你嗎？你怎麼現在跟我講還沒報行政院？"],["伍次長勝園：已經報了。"],["洪委員孟楷：6月1號已經報行政院？"],["伍次長勝園：報行政院了。"],["楊局長正君：報了。"],["洪委員孟楷：對於淡海輕軌、藍海線二期，你們的審查意見是什麼？你們報行政院、你們的審查一定有你們的主觀認定，你們認定這次新北市政府報過來的淡海輕軌、藍海線二期計畫成不成熟？完不完整？"],["楊局長正君：了解，我們的審查結果就是沒有意見才會送到院裡面！"],["洪委員孟楷：沒有意見就代表新北市政府這次報出來的計畫是完整的、確實的，有回答過去鐵道局所提出來的問題，也補齊問題的解方……"],["楊局長正君：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以你們認為如果現在通過的話，馬上可以實行，而且是確實可行的，對不對？"],["楊局長正君：是的，但還是要等待行政院最後的審議。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，行政院這部分就要拜託次長了，次長？"],["伍次長勝園：好。"],["洪委員孟楷：淡水人已經期待太久了！藍海線二期的距離其實不長，我簡單科普一下。","相信大家最近都有去淡水，去看淡江大橋，藍海線二期最重要的就是補足最後一哩路。現在輕軌的綠山線、藍海線都已經在營運，綠山線繞整個山區，但藍海線現在只有三站，所以藍海線二期最重要的是從淡水捷運站，沿著金色水岸連接到漁人碼頭。如果未來這段補齊，那麼整個淡海輕軌就變成一個circle，是可以循環的，到時候民眾可以從淡水紅樹林捷運站坐綠山線繞到漁人碼頭，再坐藍海線二期回來淡水捷運站，與捷運淡水線做完整的串聯，我想這對整個捷運路網是最好的，不管是運輸、經濟以及整個規模都是最好的。","好，既然鐵道局的專業意見也認為新北市政府補齊了，次長能不能也幫幫忙？"],["伍次長勝園：可以，我想……"],["洪委員孟楷：也再督促一下行政院，不要再卡了，趕快核定吧！"],["伍次長勝園：跟委員報告，其實當時淡海輕軌有一個問題，也就是路線與當地商家有些不一樣的看法……"],["洪委員孟楷：那個問題早就解決了。"],["伍次長勝園：對。這次是因為已經補齊，有補充他們與當地溝通的結果，我們也看了看，既然已經溝通了……"],["洪委員孟楷：其實溝通了五年！本來就已經溝通完畢，只是少數人的意見……有意見、尊重都是好事，既然現在新北市府都已經完成了才送鐵道局，而鐵道局也核備，認為說可以了才往行政院送。"],["伍次長勝園：是，也送行政院了。"],["洪委員孟楷：現在就是等行政院要不要趕快核定，畢竟最專業的鐵道局都已經認為沒有問題了，所以已經不是專業的問題了，如此就不要有政治因素在裡面，儘速核定，趕快來催促一下，看行政院能不能趕快加速簽核公文，這樣可以嗎？"],["伍次長勝園：好，這我們來努力。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，我們一起努力，謝謝。"],["伍次長勝園：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷委員，謝謝楊局長、次長。","現在先處理臨時提案，請議事人員宣讀。","臨時提案：","鑑於我國擁有高達1,440萬輛機車，但機車於道路設計上之定位卻長期不明，近期諸多道路工程屢屢引發實體分隔機車道過窄之爭議，凸顯出現行機車安全規範長期被忽視的結構性問題。","然對於「車道寬度」之定義與計算基準，現行法規（如《公路路線設計規範》）缺乏明確規範，對於計算標準究竟是「標線線心到線心」抑或僅要求「土木工程橫斷面淨寬」，各界認知出現嚴重分歧。此定義不清之問題，甚至導致交通部運輸研究所出版之《2022台灣公路容量手冊》在進行機車道效率評估時，各模型產生極大之誤差。","事實上，我國車道寬度規範過去多直接沿用美國早期標準，極度缺乏針對本土龐大機車族群的交通安全實證研究。近期的交通事故數據實證更指出，在車流量條件相同的情況下，實體分隔機車道橋梁的機車傷亡事故，反而比汽機車混流橋梁高出2至4倍多。學者專家亦呼籲，應拋棄過往單純的「車種分流」思維，透過實證研究探討改採「車速分流」之設計。","道路設計規範為保障用路人生命安全的基本防線，規範不應僅是最低限度的要求。若交通部持續沿用缺乏本土實證數據支持之舊規範，且遲未釐清車道寬度之統一定義，恐導致全台各項新建及改建道路工程僅求合乎規範、卻罔顧實質安全，製造容易引發追撞與擦撞的高風險環境。","爰此，要求交通部應責成相關單位，針對「各法規中車道寬度之統一定義與計算方式」進行跨部會之全面檢討，並啟動針對「機車道配置、實體分隔與汽機車混流安全性」的本土交通安全評估報告。以完善我國道路設計規範，並請於一個月內向本委員會提出專案報告。","提案人：黃健豪　　邱若華　　洪孟楷"],["主席：請問各位委員及行政單位有沒有補充意見？"],["吳司長東凌：感謝召委的提案。本案可不可以容許我們稍微做一點文字修改？在倒數第2行「實證研究」建議改成「評估報告」；「請於一個月內」的「一個月」改成「三個月」；最後的「專案報告」改成「書面報告」。"],["主席：好，修正通過。臨時提案已經處理完畢，如果委員對於上述提案補簽，列入紀錄，並刊登公報。","現在繼續請陳雪生委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":514,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-23-19","speakers":["黃健豪","李昆澤","洪孟楷","陳雪生","林俊憲","徐富癸","許智傑","魯明哲","邱若華","萬美玲","蔡易餘","陳清龍","何欣純","陳素月","游顥","傅崐萁"],"page_start":477,"meetingDate":["2026-06-18"],"gazette_id":"1155303","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155303_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管交通作業基金─鐵\n道發展基金分預算；二、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主\n管交通作業基金─臺鐵局撥入資產及債務管理基金分預算（詢答）","agenda_id":"1155303_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}