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跟錢什麼關係啊我跟你講個笑話"},{"start":211.441,"end":236.736,"text":"財化法修了以後金門多了一百多億澎湖多了四五十億我們離島有三個金門、馬祖、澎湖金門多一百多億我還跟陳玉珍委員講你馬上當縣長了你這樣吵吵鬧鬧你將來沒錢用他說我多了一百多億我酒廠再加油一下我錢夠用了所以他也不怕你誰"},{"start":240.649,"end":269.769,"text":"那澎湖養委員是尊稱我為大哥啦所以馬祖基的錢就多一點也沒關係問題他這次分了不少錢所以他們也沒吵那我們是什麼財發法少了一千萬少了一千萬財政部部長還滿佛心的補了一千萬給我那就大平嘛對不對大平那我沒有多一個錢啊好現在中央來一個怪招"},{"start":271.721,"end":295.164,"text":"這什麼招勒所有的一般補助款我不給你了你從新的財務法多出來的錢你去自己模補去運用那我沒有多出來的錢那我那邊主要靠的是交通部所以我一直在交通委員會也就是這個原因"},{"start":296.107,"end":322.876,"text":"那你交通部所有的錢都你們自己去檢討財化法裡面的錢給你們了財化法沒有給我錢啊那所以這怎麼辦呢我也跟部長在這邊講了很多次那你這個馬祖大橋講了差不多八九年七八年了你預算到底是編還是不編啊是不是我三點你們預算交通部預算三點的四十八億多啦我們就號稱五十億好了齁"},{"start":325.233,"end":345.354,"text":"那你說我這個錢要把你們三五十億還是不三五十億你這樣一點誠意都沒有啊然後那個陳次長說他主持一個會議一推又推來了一推二五六說縣政府綜合計畫裡面沒有講清楚沒有寫清楚"},{"start":346.755,"end":371.151,"text":"那我就提議啦,把縣長、議長這些相關人員通通抓到你交通部來好不好你說什麼就什麼,你說怎樣就怎樣,可以了吧我們也是待執行而已,這個大橋主要的單位還是你們那現在我們是待執行,因為比較偏遠那你在離島、偏一鄉,偏一鄉也照顧了,離島也照顧了"},{"start":374.083,"end":386.661,"text":"馬祖還少了一千萬,你這樣撥不進去,這個公平嗎?那這個錢到底,我今年不講了,明年你們預算,你們什麼態度?"},{"start":391.513,"end":416.643,"text":"我想跟委員報告,一個計畫當然要從可行性中規,然後才有建設計畫嘛,大概這整個程序來走啦那我理解的,這應該是公路局辦的嘛公路局他陳局長齁,林副山林局長齁林局長他也很積極,我記得上次委員要求說由他親自來主持啦,我記得啦他是無奈,不是積極啊他很無奈"},{"start":419.689,"end":446.05,"text":"我想應該不會無奈啦,我想這部分他應該是他也沒有獲得授權啦他也積極在處理啦我想這部分我回去再跟那個林區長請他再市長是部長也沒有獲得授權部長也跟我講得很清楚他說委員你看我像是不給你錢的人嗎是不是這個層次應該是在總統跟院長那我說你們要提啊"},{"start":447.335,"end":471.056,"text":"你不提醒他,他們事情那麼多,怎麼會記得我們?馬祖就鳥蛋一顆,在總執行前夕,卓院長好不容易跑到馬祖去了一趟,沒人去沒人管所以次長回去跟部長再轉告一下,不是你的問題趕快開會啊,陳次長、彥博次長你要開會啊"},{"start":476.107,"end":500.402,"text":"到現在你看總資金現在已經又一個月了,已經又一個月了好不好好這件事就是有關民航局那個IMAS啊IMAS就是那個攔阻的那個嘛那個一個蠻貴的預算有了,錢也有了,計畫也有了飆不出去啊,沒有人來飆"},{"start":502.555,"end":527.369,"text":"這個再加油一下好不好我們再檢討一下預算看了解真正原因是什麼流標因為我們的跑道很短然後側風很強這個不怕意外我們只怕萬一有個攔截網對我們整個非常的安全因為我們的飛機不是我們的機場不是一個非常標準安全的機場所以這個對我們來講非常重要"},{"start":528.353,"end":534.586,"text":"好不好,以上兩點雖然不是你的業務啊,不是你也管的,但是幫我轉一下好不好,謝謝,謝謝趙偉,謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:38:35+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:38:36+08:00","text":"謝謝召委。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:38:36+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:38:37+08:00","text":"是不是請伍次長？","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T09:38:37+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:38:38+08:00","text":"請伍次長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:38:38+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:38:39+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:38:35.658000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:38:37.719000+08:00","text":"次長，鐵路產業研發檢測發展計畫有補助督促產業、學界還有研究機構去研發，對不對？對。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:38:37.719000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:38:44.723000+08:00","text":"目前進度落後的原因是什麼？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:39:04.559000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:39:19.790000+08:00","text":"目前進度與執行應該還好，包括技術的研發我們都持續在推動，我想這部分應該沒有什麼大問題。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:39:20.070000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:39:27.115000+08:00","text":"是不是因為國內的鐵道檢測環境跟法規還在初創階段？","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:39:27.856000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:39:29.057000+08:00","text":"對，所以有很多必須要去……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:39:29.517000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:39:30.418000+08:00","text":"但現在的執行進度是零！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"楊局長正君","start":"2026-06-18T09:39:33.990000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:39:39.432000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這事實上有在執行，問題應該在於計價，也就是合約的計價。","quality":0.552},{"speaker":"楊局長正君","start":"2026-06-18T09:39:41.412000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:39:44.313000+08:00","text":"至於該項工作現在進行是順利的。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:39:44.313000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:39:45.313000+08:00","text":"進行順利？","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:39:45.193000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:39:46.293000+08:00","text":"進度是零，怎麼會順利？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"楊局長正君","start":"2026-06-18T09:39:47.373000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:39:48.233000+08:00","text":"應該是預算執行的問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:39:48.233000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:39:48.874000+08:00","text":"你沒有進度啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:39:50.454000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:39:50.894000+08:00","text":"你說明一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:39:52.734000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:39:55.815000+08:00","text":"進度是零，沒有進度，你怎麼說工作順利？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:39:57.315000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:39:58.056000+08:00","text":"是非常不順利。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李組長開熙","start":"2026-06-18T09:40:03.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:40:09.575000+08:00","text":"報告委員，因為上一年度還沒有執行完，所以我們先用上一年度的處理。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:40:10.776000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:40:14.219000+08:00","text":"上一年度的，那你今年度預算就不要編了？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"李組長開熙","start":"2026-06-18T09:40:15.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:40:15.749000+08:00","text":"是有編啦，但是我們……","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:40:16.089000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:40:19.310000+08:00","text":"你上一年度還沒執行完，前年度執行完畢了嘛。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"楊局長正君","start":"2026-06-18T09:40:21.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:40:35.673000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，因為去年度的預算沒有完全執行完，所以我們今年先執行上一年度的剩餘預算，但是這個工作目前已經全面展開，所以今年度的預算還是懇請委員給我們支持。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:40:38.114000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:40:38.614000+08:00","text":"好，李組長請回。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:40:40.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:40:52.370000+08:00","text":"高雄、屏東段區段徵收，配合高鐵延伸屏東的計畫，採用高雄的模式，請問高雄是什麼模式？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"楊局長正君","start":"2026-06-18T09:40:53.691000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:41:05.538000+08:00","text":"所謂高雄方案，是指高鐵未來延伸到屏東的路線，經由高雄車站也就是現在的臺鐵高雄火車站之後，再延伸到屏東。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:41:07.184000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:41:08.825000+08:00","text":"這個計畫還在持續的進行嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊局長正君","start":"2026-06-18T09:41:08.825000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:41:13.666000+08:00","text":"現在在進行綜合規劃跟環評作業當中。屏東？是的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:41:14.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:41:14.627000+08:00","text":"不是叫停了？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:41:14.947000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:41:15.947000+08:00","text":"沒有叫停？沒有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:41:18.428000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:41:21.929000+08:00","text":"好，楊局長，你請回，沒關係。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊局長正君","start":"2026-06-18T09:41:21.929000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:41:23.009000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝委員。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:41:23.009000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:41:47.863000+08:00","text":"次長，今天我問你兩個問題，因為部長沒有來，剛才早上洪孟楷委員講到淡江大橋，我上次在總質詢提到馬祖大橋，你們交通部很奇怪，一直來文說縣政府要負擔多少比例，你看縣政府能夠負擔多少比例？","quality":0.89},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:41:49.224000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:41:53.846000+08:00","text":"前面的方案沒有這個問題，綜合規劃裡面一直沒有這個問題啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:41:54.807000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:42:00.330000+08:00","text":"最近反正踢皮球踢來踢去，踢得差不多了，現在來講錢的問題了，跟錢有什麼關係啊？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:42:00.530000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:42:28.394000+08:00","text":"我跟你講一個笑話，財劃法修了以後，金門多了一百多億，澎湖多了四、五十億，我們離島有三個：金門、馬祖、澎湖，金門多一百多億，我還跟陳玉珍委員講，你馬上要當縣長了，你這樣吵吵鬧鬧，將來沒錢用，他說我多了一百多億啊！","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:42:28.394000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:42:31.736000+08:00","text":"我酒廠再加油一下，我錢夠用了，所以他也不怕誰啊！","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:42:37.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:42:37.791000+08:00","text":"澎湖呢？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:42:38.091000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:42:49.458000+08:00","text":"楊委員是尊稱我為大哥，所以馬祖就錢多一點也沒關係，問題是他這次分了不少錢欸，所以他們也沒吵，那我們是什麼呢？","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:42:49.458000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:42:59.365000+08:00","text":"財劃法少了一千萬，財政部部長還滿佛心的，補了一千萬給我，那就打平嘛！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:43:00.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:43:06.941000+08:00","text":"但我沒有多餘的錢啊，好，現在中央來一個怪招，什麼招？","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:43:08.943000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:43:23.077000+08:00","text":"所有的一般補助款都不給我了，從新的財劃法多出來的錢，自己去挪補、運用，問題是我沒有多出來的錢啊！","quality":0.791},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:43:23.258000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:43:30.144000+08:00","text":"我那邊主要靠的是交通部，所以我一直在交通委員會也就是這個原因。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:43:31.407000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:43:37.889000+08:00","text":"交通部說所有的錢都你們自己去檢討，財劃法裡面的錢都給你們了，但財劃法沒有給我錢啊！","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:43:39.030000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:43:39.930000+08:00","text":"那這怎麼辦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:43:40.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:43:50.874000+08:00","text":"我也跟部長講了很多次，馬祖大橋講了差不多七、八年了，預算到底是編還是不編？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:43:52.214000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:44:04.077000+08:00","text":"我刪減你們交通部的預算48億多，就號稱50億好了，那你說我要把你們這個錢刪50億還是不刪50億？","quality":0.784},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:44:04.077000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:44:05.538000+08:00","text":"你們這樣一點誠意都沒有啊！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:44:06.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:44:27.859000+08:00","text":"然後陳次長主持一個會議，一推二五六，說縣政府綜合計畫裡面沒有寫清楚，那我就提議，把縣長、議長這些相關人員通通抓到你交通部來，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:44:28.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:44:31.521000+08:00","text":"你說什麼就什麼，你說怎樣就怎樣，可以了吧？欸！","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:44:33.323000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:44:34.623000+08:00","text":"我們也是代執行而已耶！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:44:35.904000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:44:42.869000+08:00","text":"這個大橋主要的單位還是你們，縣政府是代執行，因為比較偏遠。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:44:43.029000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:44:57.054000+08:00","text":"你現在偏鄉照顧了，離島也照顧了，我們馬祖還少了一千萬，這樣公平嗎？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:44:57.655000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:45:01.641000+08:00","text":"這個錢我今年不講了，明年的預算你們是什麼態度？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:45:06.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:45:27.662000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，一個計畫大概要經過可行性、綜規，才有建設計畫，照這個程序來走，據我理解這應該是公路局辦的，公路局林福山局長也很積極，我記得上次委員也要求由他親自來主持，我記得。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:45:27.662000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:45:28.662000+08:00","text":"七、八年叫積極喔？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:45:28.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:45:31.623000+08:00","text":"他是無奈不是積極啊，他很無奈。","quality":1},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:45:34.689000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:45:36.831000+08:00","text":"我想應該不會無奈啦，這部分他應該積極……","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:45:37.091000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:45:38.052000+08:00","text":"他也沒有獲得授權啊。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:45:38.432000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:45:42.976000+08:00","text":"他也積極在處理啦，我想這部分我回去再跟林局長……請他再……","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:45:43.856000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:45:54.505000+08:00","text":"次長，部長也沒獲得授權，部長也跟我講得很清楚，他說，委員，你看我像是不給你錢的人嗎？","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:45:56.686000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:46:01.030000+08:00","text":"這個層次應該是在總統跟院長，我說你們要提啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:46:02.335000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:46:09.081000+08:00","text":"你不提醒他，他們事情那麼多，怎麼會記得我們呢？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:46:09.081000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:46:17.809000+08:00","text":"馬祖就鳥蛋一顆，在總質詢前夕，卓院長好不容易去了馬祖一趟，沒人去，沒人管啊！","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:46:19.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:46:22.773000+08:00","text":"所以次長回去再轉告部長一下。好。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:46:23.534000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:46:23.954000+08:00","text":"不是你的問題。是。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:46:23.954000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:46:24.094000+08:00","text":"趕快開會啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:46:24.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:46:26.036000+08:00","text":"陳彥伯次長要開會啊！","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:46:31.107000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:46:33.188000+08:00","text":"到現在你看總質詢下來已經又一個月了。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:46:36.851000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:46:58.716000+08:00","text":"第二件事就是有關民航局的EMAS，EMAS就是攔阻的系統，一個滿貴的，預算有了，錢也有了，計畫也有了，標不出去，沒有人來標，這個再加油一下，好不好？","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:46:58.896000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:47:01.717000+08:00","text":"好，我們再檢討一下預算，了解流標的真正原因是什麼。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:47:02.498000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:47:22.349000+08:00","text":"因為我們的跑道很短，然後側風很強，不怕一萬，我們只怕萬一，有攔截網對我們飛航安全很重要，因為我們的機場不是一個非常標準、安全的機場，所以這個對我們來講非常重要。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-06-18T09:47:23.634000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:47:29.586000+08:00","text":"以上兩點雖然不是你的業務，不是你業管的，但是幫我轉達一下。是。謝謝。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T09:47:29.586000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T09:47:29.586000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，謝謝召委。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T09:47:30.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:47:33.228857+08:00","text":"謝謝陳雪生委員，謝謝次長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T09:47:33.528857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T09:47:36.671714+08:00","text":"接下來請林俊憲召委發言。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":167,"blocks":[["陳委員雪生：（9時38分）謝謝召委。是不是請伍次長？"],["主席：請伍次長。"],["伍次長勝園：委員好。"],["陳委員雪生：次長，鐵路產業研發檢測發展計畫有補助督促產業、學界還有研究機構去研發，對不對？"],["伍次長勝園：對。"],["陳委員雪生：目前進度落後的原因是什麼？"],["伍次長勝園：目前進度與執行應該還好，包括技術的研發我們都持續在推動，我想這部分應該沒有什麼大問題。"],["陳委員雪生：是不是因為國內的鐵道檢測環境跟法規還在初創階段？"],["伍次長勝園：對，所以有很多必須要去……"],["陳委員雪生：但現在的執行進度是零！"],["楊局長正君：跟委員報告，這事實上有在執行，問題應該在於計價，也就是合約的計價。至於該項工作現在進行是順利的。"],["陳委員雪生：進行順利？進度是零，怎麼會順利？"],["楊局長正君：應該是預算執行的問題。"],["陳委員雪生：你沒有進度啊！你說明一下。進度是零，沒有進度，你怎麼說工作順利？是非常不順利。"],["李組長開熙：報告委員，因為上一年度還沒有執行完，所以我們先用上一年度的處理。"],["陳委員雪生：上一年度的，那你今年度預算就不要編了？"],["李組長開熙：是有編啦，但是我們……"],["陳委員雪生：你上一年度還沒執行完，前年度執行完畢了嘛。"],["楊局長正君：跟委員報告，因為去年度的預算沒有完全執行完，所以我們今年先執行上一年度的剩餘預算，但是這個工作目前已經全面展開，所以今年度的預算還是懇請委員給我們支持。"],["陳委員雪生：好，李組長請回。高雄、屏東段區段徵收，配合高鐵延伸屏東的計畫，採用高雄的模式，請問高雄是什麼模式？"],["楊局長正君：所謂高雄方案，是指高鐵未來延伸到屏東的路線，經由高雄車站也就是現在的臺鐵高雄火車站之後，再延伸到屏東。"],["陳委員雪生：這個計畫還在持續的進行嗎？"],["楊局長正君：現在在進行綜合規劃跟環評作業當中。"],["陳委員雪生：屏東？"],["楊局長正君：是的。"],["陳委員雪生：不是叫停了？沒有叫停？"],["楊局長正君：沒有。"],["陳委員雪生：好，楊局長，你請回，沒關係。"],["楊局長正君：是，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員雪生：次長，今天我問你兩個問題，因為部長沒有來，剛才早上洪孟楷委員講到淡江大橋，我上次在總質詢提到馬祖大橋，你們交通部很奇怪，一直來文說縣政府要負擔多少比例，你看縣政府能夠負擔多少比例？前面的方案沒有這個問題，綜合規劃裡面一直沒有這個問題啊！最近反正踢皮球踢來踢去，踢得差不多了，現在來講錢的問題了，跟錢有什麼關係啊？我跟你講一個笑話，財劃法修了以後，金門多了一百多億，澎湖多了四、五十億，我們離島有三個：金門、馬祖、澎湖，金門多一百多億，我還跟陳玉珍委員講，你馬上要當縣長了，你這樣吵吵鬧鬧，將來沒錢用，他說我多了一百多億啊！我酒廠再加油一下，我錢夠用了，所以他也不怕誰啊！澎湖呢？楊委員是尊稱我為大哥，所以馬祖就錢多一點也沒關係，問題是他這次分了不少錢欸，所以他們也沒吵，那我們是什麼呢？財劃法少了一千萬，財政部部長還滿佛心的，補了一千萬給我，那就打平嘛！但我沒有多餘的錢啊，好，現在中央來一個怪招，什麼招？所有的一般補助款都不給我了，從新的財劃法多出來的錢，自己去挪補、運用，問題是我沒有多出來的錢啊！我那邊主要靠的是交通部，所以我一直在交通委員會也就是這個原因。交通部說所有的錢都你們自己去檢討，財劃法裡面的錢都給你們了，但財劃法沒有給我錢啊！那這怎麼辦？我也跟部長講了很多次，馬祖大橋講了差不多七、八年了，預算到底是編還是不編？我刪減你們交通部的預算48億多，就號稱50億好了，那你說我要把你們這個錢刪50億還是不刪50億？你們這樣一點誠意都沒有啊！然後陳次長主持一個會議，一推二五六，說縣政府綜合計畫裡面沒有寫清楚，那我就提議，把縣長、議長這些相關人員通通抓到你交通部來，好不好？你說什麼就什麼，你說怎樣就怎樣，可以了吧？欸！我們也是代執行而已耶！這個大橋主要的單位還是你們，縣政府是代執行，因為比較偏遠。你現在偏鄉照顧了，離島也照顧了，我們馬祖還少了一千萬，這樣公平嗎？這個錢我今年不講了，明年的預算你們是什麼態度？"],["伍次長勝園：跟委員報告，一個計畫大概要經過可行性、綜規，才有建設計畫，照這個程序來走，據我理解這應該是公路局辦的，公路局林福山局長也很積極，我記得上次委員也要求由他親自來主持，我記得。"],["陳委員雪生：七、八年叫積極喔？他是無奈不是積極啊，他很無奈。"],["伍次長勝園：我想應該不會無奈啦，這部分他應該積極……"],["陳委員雪生：他也沒有獲得授權啊。"],["伍次長勝園：他也積極在處理啦，我想這部分我回去再跟林局長……請他再……"],["陳委員雪生：次長，部長也沒獲得授權，部長也跟我講得很清楚，他說，委員，你看我像是不給你錢的人嗎？這個層次應該是在總統跟院長，我說你們要提啊！你不提醒他，他們事情那麼多，怎麼會記得我們呢？馬祖就鳥蛋一顆，在總質詢前夕，卓院長好不容易去了馬祖一趟，沒人去，沒人管啊！所以次長回去再轉告部長一下。"],["伍次長勝園：好。"],["陳委員雪生：不是你的問題。"],["伍次長勝園：是。"],["陳委員雪生：趕快開會啊！陳彥伯次長要開會啊！到現在你看總質詢下來已經又一個月了。第二件事就是有關民航局的EMAS，EMAS就是攔阻的系統，一個滿貴的，預算有了，錢也有了，計畫也有了，標不出去，沒有人來標，這個再加油一下，好不好？"],["伍次長勝園：好，我們再檢討一下預算，了解流標的真正原因是什麼。"],["陳委員雪生：因為我們的跑道很短，然後側風很強，不怕一萬，我們只怕萬一，有攔截網對我們飛航安全很重要，因為我們的機場不是一個非常標準、安全的機場，所以這個對我們來講非常重要。以上兩點雖然不是你的業務，不是你業管的，但是幫我轉達一下。"],["伍次長勝園：是。"],["陳委員雪生：謝謝。"],["伍次長勝園：謝謝委員，謝謝召委。"],["主席：謝謝陳雪生委員，謝謝次長。","接下來請林俊憲召委發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":514,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-23-19","speakers":["黃健豪","李昆澤","洪孟楷","陳雪生","林俊憲","徐富癸","許智傑","魯明哲","邱若華","萬美玲","蔡易餘","陳清龍","何欣純","陳素月","游顥","傅崐萁"],"page_start":477,"meetingDate":["2026-06-18"],"gazette_id":"1155303","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155303_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管交通作業基金─鐵\n道發展基金分預算；二、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主\n管交通作業基金─臺鐵局撥入資產及債務管理基金分預算（詢答）","agenda_id":"1155303_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}