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結果我想這部分我們會後面再來跟行政院面再來大家請教一下看有哪些還要再做修正這其實是已經送到院裡面去申核了"},{"start":258.089,"end":280.991,"text":"不過送到院裡面已經好一段時間了是不是你們今天會後啊你去了解一下嘛總是要有一個原因嘛對不對你不能放在那邊一個月兩個月三個月都沒有原因都不知道那到時候大家一定是會去怪行政院嘛那行政院他是有什麼樣的因素對不對合理的部分我覺得這個部分我們需要知道那這個部分在會後能不能幫我們去了解一下"},{"start":283.182,"end":302.671,"text":"好那再來因為你要整個通車我們蠻擔心的因為這幾站因為整個軌道的你們預計第一階段通車那有一些站是第二階段通車那可想而知這些站是夾在中間的所以他那些站你們預估他第二階段通車但是他主結構"},{"start":303.832,"end":324.353,"text":"跟軌道是必須要可以通的不然你的車根本鑽不過去嘛也因為它的站體後續有一些上面的工程在第二階段慢慢需要多一年但是你主結構這個的部分是肯定要搶先在第一階段的時候是要全線主結構是要通車這個局長你來說明一下是不是這樣"},{"start":325.274,"end":343.369,"text":"沒有錯因為我們鐵路地下化下地之後就全部通通都要走到地下的隧道所以不管是第一階段還是第二階段的這個標案或者是車站那基本上路線上的結構跟隧道跟相關的機電耗資系統全部都要完成"},{"start":343.689,"end":365.972,"text":"那你說明一下好不好因為之前我們有討論過因為你個人當時兩年前的時候覺得我們內地站甚至鳳鳴站還有桃園醫院站這三個還沒發包的你們說有特別說因為他可能要的工期會比較稍微短一點他這個站比較簡單所以後面趕得上來你可以給我一個至少的時間點"},{"start":367.193,"end":385.543,"text":"譬如說今年年底我都沒有發包你到底 因為這時間表不能騙人啊你說三點之後還沒發包還趕得上來我不相信啦你覺得這個極限發包的極限你們就專業的角度好不好這三站最晚最晚什麼時候發包才趕得上這個整線你們目前的計畫"},{"start":388.07,"end":406.131,"text":"市長我也了解我們內地站已經做完臨時軌的切換那按照工程的順序的話臨時軌切換完當然原來的這個舊的軌道地方要做拆除拆除完之後就要執行永久軌跟地下隧道的工程"},{"start":406.892,"end":434.445,"text":"所以希望在下半年要能夠繼續的希望這半年能夠發包嘛 對不對是的我們拭目以待啦真的是要期待因為你要拖的話整個工程你即使不說我們最終目標沒有改變但你這個山寨沒有如果到一定節點沒有發包的時候就算你說這個我們目標還是這樣那坦白講那也是騙人的那再來你剛剛特別提到我們在零食鬼切換的整個過程4月28號"},{"start":437.328,"end":454.548,"text":"造成大堵車啦不過我也要謝謝你們在你們在反應的過程中我們看到台鐵公司 鐵道局 桃園市政府大概在三四天以內就想出了很多的計畫讓這個事情慢慢的緩解但是我要拜託因為"},{"start":456.659,"end":483.646,"text":"畢竟大家要解決啦我知道交通的黑暗期市民的朋友其實都有心理準備可是我覺得有些東西你要事先溝通因為在4月28號零失軌切換後面你們說因為你們切換主要是軌道內的事情所以在道安跟地方政府沒有經過一般的程序結果沒想到周邊的交通影響這麼大那在接下來你們施工的部分"},{"start":484.846,"end":510.434,"text":"看到我們在116年到123年完工總共有九個平交道 九個地下道都會陸續的封閉其中有三個會一年以上一年以上有六個月到一年有九個那我這個的部分請務必鐵道局你不管這個跟桃園市政府相關的大安匯報這個應該會要去大安匯報吧"},{"start":513.839,"end":539.469,"text":"跟委員報告要按照看他的交通維持的計畫不過我們會非常嚴謹的記取這次內地戰的這個教訓所以我們一定會把這個我要特別請你注意要跟你拜託你們在封的過程中你不要臨近的要特別避免你知道嗎你封了這個他要繞旁邊的你不要一次封兩個這種臨近的沒有這樣的的不會有這樣的事吧是"},{"start":540.069,"end":552.002,"text":"稍微分開一點尤其有些主要像我們中壢浦中路地下道聽說今年要封大概要封多久你知道嗎他是辦辦事工他不會整個把它封掉對啊但是車道兩道可能變成單線怎麼樣"},{"start":555.605,"end":579.903,"text":"這個交通維持計畫如何繞道這個部分一定要提前兩三個月就來跟地方政府其實我們現在就在跟地方政府在討論對要公告周知什麼時候開始好不好我們希望在減少一定不方便沒辦法交通黑暗級但是我們讓民眾先知道然後繞道怎麼樣一個維持的方式也事先規劃好拜託你好不好我們一定努力來做謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:19:28.063000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:19:30.685000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請交通部伍次長跟鐵道局楊局長。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T10:19:30.705000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:19:31.265000+08:00","text":"請伍次長跟楊局長。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T10:19:31.265000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:19:31.265000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:19:31.385000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:19:31.766000+08:00","text":"謝謝兩位，今天我們來複習一下功課，也追一下進度。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:19:31.906000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:20:40.439000+08:00","text":"桃園鐵路地下化真的是從我在當市議員開始，一路有緣來到立法院交通委員會，等於是每一年我都在監督這個進度，當時我在當議員的時候，其實最早聽到的是115年，也就是今年，我們桃園鄉親就鐵路地下化享受了新的一個站區，本來是115年、116年，當然來到交通部鐵道局之後，那時候你們原本計畫是118年到119年，我知道這整個過程你們新修正的計畫變成第一階段有5站，並預計在122年通車，而第二階段的另外3站在123年9月通車。","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:20:40.439000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:20:47.966000+08:00","text":"首先，我再問一下，看是次長或是局長來回答，目前時程的計畫有沒有做什麼調整？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:20:48.046000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:20:48.226000+08:00","text":"麻煩說明一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊局長正君","start":"2026-06-18T10:20:51.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:20:52.916000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，目前還沒有調整。","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:20:54.978000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:20:55.858000+08:00","text":"還沒有，是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊局長正君","start":"2026-06-18T10:20:56.439000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:20:56.859000+08:00","text":"目前沒有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:20:57.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:20:58.600000+08:00","text":"有沒有信心？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊局長正君","start":"2026-06-18T10:21:00.562000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:21:12.158000+08:00","text":"我想因為修正計畫的核定會影響到122年的目標，我們希望修正計畫能夠儘快核定。好。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:21:12.578000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:21:29.851000+08:00","text":"再請問一下，我們現在桃園在桃園站文資的問題，在檢查所有的節點……因為鐵路地下化的地下軌道工程其實只要有其中一站，尤其主要軌道沒有做的話，其他站你做好了，也是沒辦法通車。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:21:30.371000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:21:32.473000+08:00","text":"因為現在文資正好是在地下，有關文資問題的解決進度能否說明一下，好不好？","quality":0.781},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:21:35.355000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:21:42.036000+08:00","text":"因為我覺得這對於整線通車非常重要的、可能的延誤點，我們也討論了很多次，有沒有最新的進度？","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:21:42.376000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:21:42.556000+08:00","text":"請說明一下。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"楊局長正君","start":"2026-06-18T10:21:43.916000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:22:08.283000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，有關CJ12標桃園站的文資處理，挖掘計畫已獲桃園市政府文化局審定通過，所以我們現在正在進行當中，但是最重要的是移置計畫，就是要把這些挖掘出來的相關文資做移置，針對這一部分，文化局還沒有給我們審核通過。","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:22:08.423000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:22:11.565000+08:00","text":"你們這樣估算，總是要去判斷，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:22:12.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:22:20.492000+08:00","text":"因為桃園站這樣的文資問題，在整個桃園站區工程，你們預估會造成多少天的延誤？","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"楊局長正君","start":"2026-06-18T10:22:20.813000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:22:21.813000+08:00","text":"目前還在控制當中。","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:22:22.534000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:22:23.194000+08:00","text":"在控制當中？是。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:22:24.195000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:22:39.200000+08:00","text":"我覺得要控制好，這個部分不管跟桃園市政府也好，因為有些文資審議是需要外面的委員，其實政府也不是完全可以控制，但是你這個進度真的真的要非常注意。會。","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:22:40.641000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:23:15.316000+08:00","text":"再來，我們看到了現在新的計畫沒有變，預計122年1月有5站通車，這5站包含了你們預計在第一期122年要完工的站，其中內壢站及鳳鳴站都還沒發包，所以我們先檢查第一階段，有2站列為第一期要完工的，坦白講，現在這筆經費，行政院院長到底核定了沒有？","quality":0.82},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T10:23:15.316000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T10:23:16.316000+08:00","text":"還沒有。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊局長正君","start":"2026-06-18T10:23:16.197000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:23:16.297000+08:00","text":"還沒有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:23:16.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:23:17.958000+08:00","text":"現在遇到什麼困難？","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:23:17.958000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:23:18.758000+08:00","text":"好像送去很久了嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:23:19.378000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:23:26.502000+08:00","text":"之前我們萬委員在總質詢的時候，已經是一個多月前了，現在到底卡在哪裡？","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:23:26.502000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:23:31.305000+08:00","text":"還是院裡有跟次長在討論什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:23:31.305000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:23:33.327000+08:00","text":"還是就放在桌上？沒有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T10:23:33.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:23:43.121000+08:00","text":"我想這部分，我們會後再來跟行政院請教一下，看有哪些需要再修正，這其實是已經送到行政院裡審核了。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:23:44.089000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:23:50.795000+08:00","text":"不過送到院裡面已經有一段時間了，是不是你們今天會後去了解一下，總是要有個原因嘛，對不對？","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:23:50.795000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:24:03.808000+08:00","text":"你不能放在那邊，1個月、2個月、3個月都沒有原因、都不知道，到時候大家一定會去怪行政院，行政院是有什麼樣因素或合理的理由，我覺得這個部分我們需要知道。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:24:04.488000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:24:09.182000+08:00","text":"針對這個部分，在會後能不能幫我們去了解一下？好。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:24:09.522000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:24:49.092000+08:00","text":"再來，你要整個通車，我滿擔心的，因為這幾站的整個軌道，你們預計第一階段通車，有一些站是第二階段通車，可想而知這些站是夾在中間的，所以你們預估那些站在第二階段通車，但是它主結構及軌道是必須要可以通的，不然你的車根本鑽不過去，由於它的站體後續有一些上面的工程，在第二階段還需要多一年，但是你主結構的部分是肯定要搶先在第一階段的時候，全線主結構是要通車的。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:24:49.092000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:24:50.353000+08:00","text":"局長，你來說明一下，是不是這樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊局長正君","start":"2026-06-18T10:24:51.274000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:24:51.995000+08:00","text":"沒有錯。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊局長正君","start":"2026-06-18T10:24:51.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:25:09.349000+08:00","text":"因為我們鐵路地下化在下地之後，就全部通通都要走到地下的隧道，所以不管是第一階段、第二階段的標案，或者是車站，基本上，路線上的結構、隧道及相關機電號誌系統全部都要完成。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:25:09.809000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:25:31.972000+08:00","text":"你說明一下，之前我們有討論過，因為你個人當時2年前的時候，我們內壢站、鳳鳴站及桃園醫院站這3站還沒發包的，你們有特別說，這3站可能工期會稍微比較短一點，因為這個站體比較簡單，所以後面趕得上來，你可不可以給我一個至少的時間點？","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:25:33.193000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:25:41.017000+08:00","text":"譬如今年年底我都沒有發包，因為這時間表不能騙人，3年之後還沒發包，還能趕得上來，我不相信。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:25:42.738000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:25:51.543000+08:00","text":"關於這個發包的極限，就你們專業的角度，你覺得這3站最晚要在什麼時候發包才能趕得上你們目前這整線的計畫？","quality":0.745},{"speaker":"楊局長正君","start":"2026-06-18T10:25:51.543000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T10:25:53.267000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告……","quality":0},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:25:53.267000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T10:25:54.991000+08:00","text":"讓次長說一下。","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"楊局長正君","start":"2026-06-18T10:25:54.991000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:26:16.134000+08:00","text":"我想委員也了解，我們內壢站已經做完臨時軌的切換，按照工程順序的話，臨時軌切換完後，原來舊軌道的地方要進行拆除，拆除完之後就要執行永久軌跟地下隧道的工程，所以希望在下半年要能夠接續的上。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:26:16.274000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:26:18.495000+08:00","text":"希望這半年能夠發包，對不對？是的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:26:19.655000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:26:35.303000+08:00","text":"我們拭目以待，真的是要期待，因為這樣拖的話，整個工程你即使不說，我們最終目標沒有改變，但如果這3站到一定節點沒有發包的時候，就算你說我們目標還是這樣，坦白講也是騙人的。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:26:36.203000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:26:40.025000+08:00","text":"再來，你剛剛特別提到在4月28日臨時軌切換的整個過程，哇！","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:26:43.328000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:26:44.269000+08:00","text":"造成大堵車。","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:26:44.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:27:03.719000+08:00","text":"不過我也要謝謝你們，在反應的過程中，我們看到臺鐵公司、鐵道局、桃園市政府大概在3、4天以內，就想出了很多的計畫，讓這個事情慢慢地緩解，但我要拜託，因為畢竟這個問題要解決啦！","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:27:03.939000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:27:27.365000+08:00","text":"我知道交通的黑暗期，市民朋友其實都有心理準備，可是我覺得有些東西你們要事先溝通，因為在4月28日臨時軌切換後，你們說因為你們切換主要是軌道內的事情，所以在道安及地方政府沒有經過一般程序，結果沒想到對周邊交通的影響這麼大。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:27:28.406000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:27:48.852000+08:00","text":"接下來，你們施工的部分，在116年到123年完工，總共有9個平交道及9個地下道都會陸續封閉，其中有3個會封閉1年以上，6個月到1年的有9個。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:27:49.312000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:27:56.414000+08:00","text":"針對這個部分，請鐵道局務必跟桃園市政府做相關的道安會報，這應該要去道安會報吧？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"楊局長正君","start":"2026-06-18T10:27:59.839000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:28:10.683000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這要看它的交通維持的計畫，不過我們會非常嚴謹地記取這次內壢站的教訓，所以我們一定會把這個地方……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:28:10.683000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:28:18.166000+08:00","text":"我要特別請你注意，也要跟你拜託，你們在封閉過程中，你們要特別避免封閉鄰近的，你知道嗎？","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:28:18.166000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:28:25.449000+08:00","text":"你封了這裡，他勢必要繞到旁邊的，所以你不要同時封閉2個這種鄰近的平交道或是地下道，不會發生這樣的事吧？是。","quality":0.574},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:28:26.069000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:28:27.651000+08:00","text":"稍微分開一點點……了解。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:28:27.651000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:28:33.597000+08:00","text":"尤其有些主要像我們中壢普忠路地下道，聽說今年要封，你知道大概要封多久嗎？","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"楊局長正君","start":"2026-06-18T10:28:33.817000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:28:35.799000+08:00","text":"它是半半施工，不會整個封掉。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:28:36.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:28:37.982000+08:00","text":"對，但是雙向車道都是單線。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"楊局長正君","start":"2026-06-18T10:28:37.982000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T10:28:41.605000+08:00","text":"我們會避免受到影響。","quality":0},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:28:41.605000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:28:47.890000+08:00","text":"這個交通維持計畫要說明如何繞道，這個部分一定要提前2、3個月就跟地方政府配合及公告。","quality":0.784},{"speaker":"楊局長正君","start":"2026-06-18T10:28:48.030000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:28:50.912000+08:00","text":"其實我們現在就在跟地方政府討論。","quality":1},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:28:50.912000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:28:53.414000+08:00","text":"對，要公告周知什麼時候開始，好不好？會的。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:28:53.534000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:28:57.517000+08:00","text":"我們希望能減少影響，一定很不方便，會有交通黑暗期，沒辦法！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:28:58.398000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:29:04.803000+08:00","text":"但是我們讓民眾先知道，然後怎麼樣繞道來維持交通順暢的方式，也要事先規劃好，拜託你，好不好？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"楊局長正君","start":"2026-06-18T10:29:05.123000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:29:05.903000+08:00","text":"好，我們一定努力來做，謝謝。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"魯委員明哲","start":"2026-06-18T10:29:06.403000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T10:29:07.403000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T10:29:07.703000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T10:29:11.703000+08:00","text":"謝謝魯明哲委員，謝謝次長及局長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T10:29:12.003000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T10:29:15.145857+08:00","text":"接下來請邱若華委員發言。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":322,"blocks":[["魯委員明哲：（10時19分）謝謝主席，有請交通部伍次長跟鐵道局楊局長。"],["主席：請伍次長跟楊局長。"],["伍次長勝園：委員好。"],["魯委員明哲：謝謝兩位，今天我們來複習一下功課，也追一下進度。桃園鐵路地下化真的是從我在當市議員開始，一路有緣來到立法院交通委員會，等於是每一年我都在監督這個進度，當時我在當議員的時候，其實最早聽到的是115年，也就是今年，我們桃園鄉親就鐵路地下化享受了新的一個站區，本來是115年、116年，當然來到交通部鐵道局之後，那時候你們原本計畫是118年到119年，我知道這整個過程你們新修正的計畫變成第一階段有5站，並預計在122年通車，而第二階段的另外3站在123年9月通車。首先，我再問一下，看是次長或是局長來回答，目前時程的計畫有沒有做什麼調整？麻煩說明一下。"],["楊局長正君：跟委員報告，目前還沒有調整。"],["魯委員明哲：還沒有，是不是？"],["楊局長正君：目前沒有。"],["魯委員明哲：有沒有信心？"],["楊局長正君：我想因為修正計畫的核定會影響到122年的目標，我們希望修正計畫能夠儘快核定。"],["魯委員明哲：好。再請問一下，我們現在桃園在桃園站文資的問題，在檢查所有的節點……因為鐵路地下化的地下軌道工程其實只要有其中一站，尤其主要軌道沒有做的話，其他站你做好了，也是沒辦法通車。因為現在文資正好是在地下，有關文資問題的解決進度能否說明一下，好不好？因為我覺得這對於整線通車非常重要的、可能的延誤點，我們也討論了很多次，有沒有最新的進度？請說明一下。"],["楊局長正君：跟委員報告，有關CJ12標桃園站的文資處理，挖掘計畫已獲桃園市政府文化局審定通過，所以我們現在正在進行當中，但是最重要的是移置計畫，就是要把這些挖掘出來的相關文資做移置，針對這一部分，文化局還沒有給我們審核通過。"],["魯委員明哲：你們這樣估算，總是要去判斷，好不好？因為桃園站這樣的文資問題，在整個桃園站區工程，你們預估會造成多少天的延誤？"],["楊局長正君：目前還在控制當中。"],["魯委員明哲：在控制當中？"],["楊局長正君：是。"],["魯委員明哲：我覺得要控制好，這個部分不管跟桃園市政府也好，因為有些文資審議是需要外面的委員，其實政府也不是完全可以控制，但是你這個進度真的真的要非常注意。"],["楊局長正君：會。"],["魯委員明哲：再來，我們看到了現在新的計畫沒有變，預計122年1月有5站通車，這5站包含了你們預計在第一期122年要完工的站，其中內壢站及鳳鳴站都還沒發包，所以我們先檢查第一階段，有2站列為第一期要完工的，坦白講，現在這筆經費，行政院院長到底核定了沒有？"],["伍次長勝園：還沒有。"],["楊局長正君：還沒有。"],["魯委員明哲：現在遇到什麼困難？好像送去很久了嘛！之前我們萬委員在總質詢的時候，已經是一個多月前了，現在到底卡在哪裡？還是院裡有跟次長在討論什麼？還是就放在桌上？"],["伍次長勝園：沒有。我想這部分，我們會後再來跟行政院請教一下，看有哪些需要再修正，這其實是已經送到行政院裡審核了。"],["魯委員明哲：不過送到院裡面已經有一段時間了，是不是你們今天會後去了解一下，總是要有個原因嘛，對不對？你不能放在那邊，1個月、2個月、3個月都沒有原因、都不知道，到時候大家一定會去怪行政院，行政院是有什麼樣因素或合理的理由，我覺得這個部分我們需要知道。針對這個部分，在會後能不能幫我們去了解一下？"],["伍次長勝園：好。"],["魯委員明哲：再來，你要整個通車，我滿擔心的，因為這幾站的整個軌道，你們預計第一階段通車，有一些站是第二階段通車，可想而知這些站是夾在中間的，所以你們預估那些站在第二階段通車，但是它主結構及軌道是必須要可以通的，不然你的車根本鑽不過去，由於它的站體後續有一些上面的工程，在第二階段還需要多一年，但是你主結構的部分是肯定要搶先在第一階段的時候，全線主結構是要通車的。局長，你來說明一下，是不是這樣？"],["楊局長正君：沒有錯。因為我們鐵路地下化在下地之後，就全部通通都要走到地下的隧道，所以不管是第一階段、第二階段的標案，或者是車站，基本上，路線上的結構、隧道及相關機電號誌系統全部都要完成。"],["魯委員明哲：你說明一下，之前我們有討論過，因為你個人當時2年前的時候，我們內壢站、鳳鳴站及桃園醫院站這3站還沒發包的，你們有特別說，這3站可能工期會稍微比較短一點，因為這個站體比較簡單，所以後面趕得上來，你可不可以給我一個至少的時間點？譬如今年年底我都沒有發包，因為這時間表不能騙人，3年之後還沒發包，還能趕得上來，我不相信。關於這個發包的極限，就你們專業的角度，你覺得這3站最晚要在什麼時候發包才能趕得上你們目前這整線的計畫？"],["楊局長正君：跟委員報告……"],["魯委員明哲：讓次長說一下。"],["楊局長正君：我想委員也了解，我們內壢站已經做完臨時軌的切換，按照工程順序的話，臨時軌切換完後，原來舊軌道的地方要進行拆除，拆除完之後就要執行永久軌跟地下隧道的工程，所以希望在下半年要能夠接續的上。"],["魯委員明哲：希望這半年能夠發包，對不對？"],["楊局長正君：是的。"],["魯委員明哲：我們拭目以待，真的是要期待，因為這樣拖的話，整個工程你即使不說，我們最終目標沒有改變，但如果這3站到一定節點沒有發包的時候，就算你說我們目標還是這樣，坦白講也是騙人的。","再來，你剛剛特別提到在4月28日臨時軌切換的整個過程，哇！造成大堵車。不過我也要謝謝你們，在反應的過程中，我們看到臺鐵公司、鐵道局、桃園市政府大概在3、4天以內，就想出了很多的計畫，讓這個事情慢慢地緩解，但我要拜託，因為畢竟這個問題要解決啦！我知道交通的黑暗期，市民朋友其實都有心理準備，可是我覺得有些東西你們要事先溝通，因為在4月28日臨時軌切換後，你們說因為你們切換主要是軌道內的事情，所以在道安及地方政府沒有經過一般程序，結果沒想到對周邊交通的影響這麼大。接下來，你們施工的部分，在116年到123年完工，總共有9個平交道及9個地下道都會陸續封閉，其中有3個會封閉1年以上，6個月到1年的有9個。針對這個部分，請鐵道局務必跟桃園市政府做相關的道安會報，這應該要去道安會報吧？"],["楊局長正君：跟委員報告，這要看它的交通維持的計畫，不過我們會非常嚴謹地記取這次內壢站的教訓，所以我們一定會把這個地方……"],["魯委員明哲：我要特別請你注意，也要跟你拜託，你們在封閉過程中，你們要特別避免封閉鄰近的，你知道嗎？你封了這裡，他勢必要繞到旁邊的，所以你不要同時封閉2個這種鄰近的平交道或是地下道，不會發生這樣的事吧？"],["楊局長正君：是。"],["魯委員明哲：稍微分開一點點……"],["楊局長正君：了解。"],["魯委員明哲：尤其有些主要像我們中壢普忠路地下道，聽說今年要封，你知道大概要封多久嗎？"],["楊局長正君：它是半半施工，不會整個封掉。"],["魯委員明哲：對，但是雙向車道都是單線。"],["楊局長正君：我們會避免受到影響。"],["魯委員明哲：這個交通維持計畫要說明如何繞道，這個部分一定要提前2、3個月就跟地方政府配合及公告。"],["楊局長正君：其實我們現在就在跟地方政府討論。"],["魯委員明哲：對，要公告周知什麼時候開始，好不好？"],["楊局長正君：會的。"],["魯委員明哲：我們希望能減少影響，一定很不方便，會有交通黑暗期，沒辦法！但是我們讓民眾先知道，然後怎麼樣繞道來維持交通順暢的方式，也要事先規劃好，拜託你，好不好？"],["楊局長正君：好，我們一定努力來做，謝謝。"],["魯委員明哲：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝魯明哲委員，謝謝次長及局長。","接下來請邱若華委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":514,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-23-19","speakers":["黃健豪","李昆澤","洪孟楷","陳雪生","林俊憲","徐富癸","許智傑","魯明哲","邱若華","萬美玲","蔡易餘","陳清龍","何欣純","陳素月","游顥","傅崐萁"],"page_start":477,"meetingDate":["2026-06-18"],"gazette_id":"1155303","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155303_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管交通作業基金─鐵\n道發展基金分預算；二、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主\n管交通作業基金─臺鐵局撥入資產及債務管理基金分預算（詢答）","agenda_id":"1155303_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}