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謝謝趙偉 我們有請一下次長好 我們請吳次長"},{"start":10.236,"end":31.459,"text":"委員好市長好在上個禮拜本市好像有看到你有針對一個我們現在不再興建鐵路平交道的一個訪問當中那有提到說不管是鐵路定下化啦或者是高下化啦您都希望說都市發展不要去被鐵路切斷也就是說我們所有的馬路不要有因為鐵路而造成有這些零碎破碎的狀態"},{"start":32.56,"end":53.337,"text":"那麼你希望用這個方式讓我們的這個市區交通更順暢喔那但是呢我們的桃園鐵路地下化其實當時會從高架到地下也就是我們經過評估以後希望地下化更能夠讓我們整個縱貫道跟我們後站之間的馬路中間不要有這樣零碎被這個鐵路平道切斷那麼同時這個安全還有交通的順暢"},{"start":59.082,"end":81.33,"text":"都是現在您所說的那種目標嘛所以我們鐵路地下化跟交通部次長您現在的表達其實是一致的喔那但是既然我們是一致的想往這個目標去前進喔那我就不理解了今天不管是魯明哲委員邱若驊委員到本席陸陸續續總諮詢交通委員會的質詢我們都在講我們的鐵路地下化真的是一言再言我們桃園人有一句話常常在講說"},{"start":82.33,"end":100.624,"text":"哇 如果我活得不夠久的話 我根本沒有辦法等到鐵路地下化仍然一天喔我覺得怎麼會讓我們桃園市的市民如此失望喔那當然我們的鐵路地下化的相關的變更計畫本席也提了非常多次喔 您以及這個部長都知道在去年的8月我們就送這個行政院去簽程喔但是到現在超過10個月了喔那問了這個部長喔 部長說要去溝通"},{"start":106.929,"end":120.521,"text":"溝通完以後有沒有下文那今天特別問一下次長為什麼 到底為什麼我們行政院遲遲都沒有辦法來核定理由是什麼那麼我們在幾次去反應之後你們到底有沒有去問過行政院"},{"start":121.958,"end":141.501,"text":"跟委員報告 其實這個案子我們也很急啦你們也很急嘛謝謝 代表桃園市民謝謝交通部也很急但是除了急之外 具體的作為是什麼是 跟委員報告 因為這個案子剛提到的整個由高架改為地下確實是對整個都市的縫合是真的是比較好"},{"start":142.262,"end":149.688,"text":"那這個案子本來大概那個我也知道這中間有一些修正計劃修正計劃的部分自然我時間有限啦我就在問你嘛這個修正計劃我們已經送上去這麼久了十個月為什麼遲遲都不簽合為什麼你這麼急那你有沒有去了解呢"},{"start":161.226,"end":178.292,"text":"我們已經送到行政院之前我們也一直在催進度那我想我們會後再跟那個國安會那邊再了解現在目前還有什麼其他問題那之前這十個月當中我們中間都有跟他溝通這十個月當中你有沒有去了解有急就會了解嘛那了解會得到的答案是什麼呢"},{"start":178.952,"end":195.179,"text":"大概幾個他問我們了解說這幾個修正計畫包括南眼增加的或是一些都市計畫增加100多億這個交通部其實已經跟他們報告過很多次了我們這中間因為他們還是有一些意見所以他們一直聽不明白對我們還是有去這多年前我們還是有跟他說明"},{"start":196.059,"end":204.125,"text":"還是聽不明白不是剛講因為這部分他也還是有這個疑義啦我們也跟他說明過了我認為啦就是說交通部啊我們立場目標一致希望鐵路地化早日做完然後呢我們也同意了我們也簽成了那這麼久你也急那是不是應該要再加速去催促啊那再來喔"},{"start":218.095,"end":222.618,"text":"我們現在這個計畫當中 當時我們的計畫寫的是769億那我們也要知道 這當中不管是美伊戰爭 或者是物價飆漲等等只會越來越嚴重那769億現在還夠嗎現在應該是到1400多億什麼我們現在769億要增加到1400多億"},{"start":247.869,"end":255.154,"text":"市長 我們本來追加769億嘛那現在追加的這769億還有沒有要再增加 還夠嗎目前沒有 目前沒有 剛剛幾個大因素剛剛提到了嘛市長 我認為啦"},{"start":269.562,"end":295.738,"text":"你恐怕還是要再重新盤點一次因為這是一年前的數字769億一年後的今天769億還夠不夠北京市一直在提醒大家如果我們一直延宕一直延宕原物料一直上漲這個結果會造成什麼就是惡性循環我們就是會一直惡性循環我們過去為什麼會有這個追加計畫就是因為我們前面延宕延宕了以後呢結果呢各戰爭世界的因素等等缺工缺料所以我們才會提出這個計畫然後去追加"},{"start":297.679,"end":316.804,"text":"那現在追加的計畫你再延宕的一年這個追加計畫會不會要再追加一次你了解我在講什麼嗎我知道您都知道嘛所以吉亞再幫我們去詢問一下好不好去催促一下好不好好那一個禮拜之內可不可以讓我知道一下這個進度到哪裡好我們可以一周好嗎好"},{"start":318.853,"end":340.09,"text":"接下來我看到您還有一個報告說為了要降低這個平交道的事故台鐵現在有規劃針對全台397處的平交道我們設置了障礙物偵測系統我覺得這個利益很好我覺得很棒目前已經完成了313處可是我看到全台其實有415處的平交道為什麼我們寫是397"},{"start":343.794,"end":361.329,"text":"不是因為他有一些優先順序我想這部分我們優先順序不是剛講的就是幾個比較擠的我們要先做啦沒有你總數量到底是多少啊全部都已經做起來總數量是多少有些總共415嘛那總共415那為什麼你是只針對397來做剩下的不重要嗎有些是因為剛講的"},{"start":369.383,"end":394.737,"text":"那個地理條件沒辦法去增設所以才這部分必須要另外一個配套措施就是這一次的這一次的那個修法市長你要不要換人答你這樣子我替你感到好辛苦喔都要這個旁邊的人給你一些小抄啊給你提醒啊這個真的就是這樣剛講的這個415有些剩下的沒辦法做就是因為有些地理環境沒辦法去增設所以有扣除掉一些是地理環境不能做的有有扣除就是扣除這些的部分"},{"start":394.957,"end":424.527,"text":"那我再請教一下那這313處啊我們有沒有去驗收過說我們做完以後這個效果好不好使用上有沒有問題我們有驗收過嗎目前在做都目前是驗收是ok的沒有問題好那我們現在還剩多少要完成84我好痛苦喔你要不要叫看誰比較了解來回答市長加油啊好不好這個我們督導業務啊我們也要了解一下啦好不好好那我們現在有84喔那84預計要到什麼時候可以全部完成"},{"start":425.555,"end":426.415,"text":"台鐵部分的話是預估大概120年完成120年為什麼為什麼要這麼久因為有經費的問題有經費的問題所以你預算不夠"},{"start":446.138,"end":454.266,"text":"好 我這麼講 市長如果說現在平交道還必須存在無法消失的我們當然要優化強化它的這些安全相關的配備那這是很急的事情我認為這麼急的事情 攸關安全"},{"start":462.654,"end":482.236,"text":"沒有委員會反對這樣的預算啊那你們自己要好好去編預算我們一定同意的啊所以你執行就要快啊你來跟我講一個沒有錢這太奇怪了沒有預算這太奇怪了我想莊委在這裡大概也聽不下去啊對不對而且這也不是一個很大的經費這絕對不是很大筆的經費而且是必要的經費那為什麼不好好編預算把它送上來我們趕快來做呢"},{"start":483.698,"end":492.792,"text":"對不對你們一天到晚針對不痛不癢的東西都在編什麼特別預算了那這個既然是很有效果也很有用的你今天跟我說要到120年因為沒有預算這在說什麼呢次長次長"},{"start":496.875,"end":513.782,"text":"有這個預算因為是台鐵公司這邊編列的那他我這邊就沒有掌握他的市長這個會後下去能不能今天下班之前把這個預算到底怎麼回事那怎麼執行的編多少缺多少那到底送了多少"},{"start":514.462,"end":541.587,"text":"我覺得是不是要跟交通委員會的委員來交代一下喔因為你這樣說的好像是關於我們鐵路平教道的安全的相關的這個計畫你說預算不夠難道是我們交通委員會的委員過去都不支持你們嗎我覺得帽子又扣太大了喔所以我想能不能今天下班前喔今天下班前把這個預算到底是怎麼回事要到120年如果是因為預算的關係我想沒有這個問題我們委員會全力支持好不好你們加油一點好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:36:54.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:36:55.012000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝召委，有請次長。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T10:36:55.233000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:36:55.253000+08:00","text":"請伍次長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T10:37:04.236000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:37:04.416000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:37:05.097000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:37:05.097000+08:00","text":"次長好。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:37:05.698000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:37:25.459000+08:00","text":"在上個禮拜本席有看到你在一個針對現在不再興建鐵路平交道的訪問當中提到不管是鐵路地下化或者是高架化，您都希望都市發展不要被鐵路切斷，也就是所有的馬路不要因為鐵路而造成零碎、破碎的狀態。是。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:37:27.381000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:37:54.983000+08:00","text":"你希望用這個方式讓市區交通更順暢，但是桃園鐵路地下化……其實當時會從高架到地下，也是經過評估以後，希望地下化更能夠讓整個縱貫道跟後站之間的馬路不要有這樣零碎且被鐵路平交道切斷的狀況，同時要安全還有交通順暢，這些都是現在您所說的目標嘛！","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:37:55.383000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:37:59.044000+08:00","text":"所以，鐵路地下化跟交通部次長您現在的表達其實是一致的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:38:00.345000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:38:12.869000+08:00","text":"既然我們是一致地想往這個目標去前進，那我就不理解了，今天不管是魯明哲委員、邱若華委員到本席，陸陸續續在總質詢、在交通委員會的質詢，我們都在講，但是鐵路地下化真的是一延再延！","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:38:13.789000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:38:20.974000+08:00","text":"我們桃園人常常在一句話講，說如果活得不夠久，根本沒有辦法等到鐵路地下化的那一天。","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:38:21.634000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:38:24.036000+08:00","text":"我覺得怎麼會讓我們桃園市的市民如此失望！","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:38:25.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:38:31.762000+08:00","text":"當然，鐵路地下化相關的變更計畫，本席也提了非常多次，您以及部長都知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:38:32.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:38:47.835000+08:00","text":"在去年8月我們就送請行政院簽核，但是到現在超過十個月了，問了部長，部長說要去溝通，溝通完以後也沒有下文，今天特別問一下次長，到底為什麼行政院遲遲都沒有辦法核定？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:38:48.195000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:38:49.456000+08:00","text":"理由是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:38:50.737000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:38:54.501000+08:00","text":"我們在幾次反映之後，你們到底有沒有去問過行政院？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T10:38:55.958000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:38:58.081000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，其實這個案子我們也很急，因為……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:38:58.862000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:38:59.463000+08:00","text":"你們也很急嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T10:39:01.265000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:39:01.265000+08:00","text":"真的很急。謝謝！","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:39:01.265000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:39:03.067000+08:00","text":"我代表桃園市民謝謝交通部有很急！","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T10:39:03.067000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T10:39:04.067000+08:00","text":"我們也要……","quality":0},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:39:03.527000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:39:05.750000+08:00","text":"但是除了急之外，具體的作為是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T10:39:05.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:39:20.666000+08:00","text":"是，跟委員報告，因為這個案子剛剛也有提到，整個由高架改為地下，確實對整個都市縫合是真的比較好，委員大概也知道這中間有一些修正計畫，修正計畫包括南延部分……","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:39:20.826000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:39:21.967000+08:00","text":"次長，我的時間有限，我就在問你嘛，這個修正計畫我們已經送上去這麼久了……","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T10:39:21.967000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T10:39:22.967000+08:00","text":"都已經OK，我們都……","quality":0},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:39:21.987000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:39:22.848000+08:00","text":"十個月為什麼遲遲都不簽核？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:39:22.988000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:39:23.008000+08:00","text":"為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T10:39:23.008000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T10:39:24.008000+08:00","text":"這個部分，因為我們送到……","quality":0},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:39:23.008000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:39:23.668000+08:00","text":"你這麼急，那你有沒有去了解呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T10:39:35.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:39:43.949000+08:00","text":"我們已經送到行政院，之前我們也一直在催進度，會後再跟國發會來了解目前還有沒有其他的問題。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:39:44.789000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:39:45.710000+08:00","text":"之前這十個月當中……","quality":1},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T10:39:45.730000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:39:46.370000+08:00","text":"我們在中間都有跟他們溝通。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:39:47.210000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:39:48.491000+08:00","text":"這十個月當中，你有沒有去了解？","quality":1},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T10:39:48.491000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T10:39:49.611000+08:00","text":"有，我們都有去溝通。","quality":0.125},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:39:49.611000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:39:50.371000+08:00","text":"急就會了解嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:39:50.851000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:39:52.272000+08:00","text":"那了解後得到的答案是什麼呢？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T10:39:52.952000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:40:00.795000+08:00","text":"大概有幾個，他們有詢問我們幾個修正計畫，包括南延增加的或是一些都市計畫增加一百多億，文字部分……","quality":0.744},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:40:00.795000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:40:02.736000+08:00","text":"這個部分，交通部其實已經跟他們報告過很多次了。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T10:40:03.256000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:40:04.577000+08:00","text":"是，但這中間因為他們還是有一些意見，我們還是要跟他……","quality":0.609},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:40:04.577000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:40:05.837000+08:00","text":"所以他們一直聽不明白？","quality":1},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T10:40:06.458000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:40:09.159000+08:00","text":"對，這段期間我們還是有跟他們說明。","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:40:10.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:40:10.540000+08:00","text":"還是聽不明白？","quality":1},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T10:40:11.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:40:15.343000+08:00","text":"不是，剛剛有提到，因為這部分他們還是有一些疑義啦，我們也跟他們說明過了，但是因為還沒有核下來，我們不知道……我們再去了解一下。","quality":0.436},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:40:15.363000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:40:18.105000+08:00","text":"我認為交通部跟我們的立場、目標一致，希望鐵路計畫早日做完，然後你們也同意了、也送請簽核了，時間過了這麼久，你也急，那是不是應該要再加速去催促？是。再來。","quality":0.803},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:40:32.495000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:40:35.878000+08:00","text":"現在這個計畫當中，當時我們的計畫寫的是769億嘛，我們也要知道，這當中不管是美伊戰爭或者是物價飆漲等等，只會越來越嚴重，769億現在還夠嗎？","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T10:40:35.878000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:40:36.258000+08:00","text":"現在應該是到一千四百多億。什麼？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:40:36.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:40:36.618000+08:00","text":"現在要由769億增加到一千四百多億？","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T10:40:36.618000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T10:41:01.989000+08:00","text":"對，整個計畫加起來，本來是一千多，加了七百多，變成1,800。","quality":0},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:41:01.989000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:41:02.590000+08:00","text":"次長，我們本來追加769億嘛。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T10:41:02.590000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T10:41:03.590000+08:00","text":"對，追加了七百多億。","quality":0},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:41:03.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:41:06.612000+08:00","text":"現在追加了這769億，還有沒有要再增加？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:41:06.912000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:41:06.912000+08:00","text":"還夠嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T10:41:06.912000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:41:08.473000+08:00","text":"目前沒有，剛剛提到幾個大因素，一個是物價的問題……","quality":0.524},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:41:09.034000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:41:30.546000+08:00","text":"次長，我認為啦，你恐怕還是要再重新盤點一次，因為769億是一年前的數字，一年後的今天，769億還夠不夠？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:41:31.027000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:41:36.850000+08:00","text":"本席其實一直在提醒大家，如果我們一直延宕、一直延宕，原物料一直上漲，這個會造成什麼結果？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:41:36.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:41:42.293000+08:00","text":"就是惡性循環，我們就是會一直惡性循環，我們過去為什麼會有這個追加計畫？","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:41:42.293000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:41:56.560000+08:00","text":"就是因為我們前面延宕，延宕了以後，結果因為戰爭、世界的因素等等，缺工缺料，所以我們才會提出這個計畫，然後去追加，現在追加的計畫如果你再延宕一年，這個追加計畫會不會要再追加一次？","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:41:57+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:41:58.101000+08:00","text":"你了解我在講什麼嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T10:41:58.101000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:41:58.341000+08:00","text":"我知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:41:58.821000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:42:02.682000+08:00","text":"您都知道嘛，所以很急啊，再幫我們去詢問一下，好不好？","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:42:02.782000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:42:04.342000+08:00","text":"去催促一下，好不好？好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:42:05.382000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:42:09.723000+08:00","text":"可不可以在一個禮拜之內讓我知道一下進度究竟是到哪裡？","quality":0.68},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T10:42:09.723000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:42:10.324000+08:00","text":"好，我們可以來……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:42:10.424000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:42:10.784000+08:00","text":"一週好嗎？好。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:42:12.853000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:42:34.070000+08:00","text":"接下來，我看到您還有一個報告說為了要降低平交道事故，臺鐵現在有規劃針對全臺397處平交道設置了障礙物偵測系統，我覺得這個立意很好，也覺得很棒，目前已經完成了313處，可是我看到全臺其實有415處的平交道，為什麼你們寫的是397？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T10:42:37.794000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:42:40.937000+08:00","text":"不是，因為它有一些優先順序，我想這部分我們原則上……","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:42:40.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:42:41.377000+08:00","text":"優先順序？","quality":1},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T10:42:41.718000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:42:45.060000+08:00","text":"不是，剛剛講的，就是幾個比較急的我們會先做啦，現在後面這幾處我們也會把它做起來。","quality":0.472},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:42:45.721000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:42:47.362000+08:00","text":"沒有，你的總數量到底是多少？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T10:42:47.843000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:42:49.764000+08:00","text":"全部都已經做起來，有些是因為……","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:42:49.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:42:50.385000+08:00","text":"總數量是多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T10:42:51.886000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:42:51.886000+08:00","text":"總共415處。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:42:52.166000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:42:53.868000+08:00","text":"總共415處，為什麼你只針對397處來做？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:42:54.008000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:42:54.728000+08:00","text":"剩下的不重要嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T10:42:54.728000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:43:12.628000+08:00","text":"有些是因為剛剛講的地理條件沒辦法去增設，這部分必須要有另外一個配套措施，這就是這一次修法的原因。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:43:12.788000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:43:13.769000+08:00","text":"次長，你要不要換人答啊？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:43:14.129000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:43:19.452000+08:00","text":"你這樣子，我替你感到好辛苦耶，都要旁邊的人給你遞小抄，或是跟你提醒。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T10:43:20.232000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:43:21.293000+08:00","text":"沒有、沒有，這個真的就是這樣。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T10:43:21.293000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:43:25.555000+08:00","text":"剛剛講的415處有些剩下的沒有辦法做，有些就是因為地理環境沒辦法去增設。","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:43:25.555000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:43:27.636000+08:00","text":"所以有扣除掉一些是地理環境不能做的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T10:43:28.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:43:28.597000+08:00","text":"就是扣除這些。","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:43:28.957000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:43:35.639000+08:00","text":"好，那我再請教一下，這313處你們有沒有去驗收過，看你們做完以後的效果好不好？","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:43:37.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:43:37.760000+08:00","text":"使用上有沒有問題？","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:43:38.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:43:38.800000+08:00","text":"你們有驗收過嗎？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T10:43:38.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:43:41.521000+08:00","text":"目前驗收都是OK的，沒問題。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:43:41.701000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:43:42.982000+08:00","text":"那我們現在還剩多少要完成？84。","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:43:46.163000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:43:51.805000+08:00","text":"我看你這樣好痛苦喔，你要不要看誰比較了解就由他來回答，次長要加油啊，好不好？","quality":0.735},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:43:52.445000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:43:54.346000+08:00","text":"因為你負責督導業務，也要了解一下啦，好不好？","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:43:55.446000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:43:58.507000+08:00","text":"我們現在還有84處，這84處預計要到什麼時候可以全部完成？","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"林科長永聰","start":"2026-06-18T10:43:59.555000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:43:59.815000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，臺鐵的部分預估會在120年完成。120年？","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:43:59.835000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:43:59.875000+08:00","text":"為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:43:59.875000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:43:59.975000+08:00","text":"為什麼要這麼久？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林科長永聰","start":"2026-06-18T10:43:59.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:44:00.055000+08:00","text":"因為有經費的問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:44:00.055000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:44:00.115000+08:00","text":"有經費的問題？","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:44:00.115000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:44:00.415000+08:00","text":"所以你預算不夠？是。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:44:20.138000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:44:49.949000+08:00","text":"好，我這麼講啦，次長，如果現在平交道還必須存在、無法消失的，我們當然要優化，強化這些安全相關的配備，這是很急的事情，我認為這麼急的事情而且攸關安全，沒有委員會反對這樣的預算啊，那你們自己就要好好去編預算，我們一定同意的，所以你執行就要快啊，但現在你們跟我講一個理由說沒有錢，這太奇怪了，沒有預算真的太奇怪了，我想召委大概也聽不下去，對不對？","quality":0.901},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:44:49.949000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:44:56.216000+08:00","text":"而且這也不是一個很大筆的經費，這絕對不是很大筆的經費，而且是必要的經費，那為什麼不好好編預算，把它送上來，我們趕快來做呢？","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:44:57.698000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:44:58.159000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:44:58.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:45:06.772000+08:00","text":"你們一天到晚針對不痛不癢的東西都在編什麼特別預算了，這個既然是很有效果也很有用的，你今天跟我說要到120年，因為沒有預算，這在說什麼呢？次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T10:45:11.055000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:45:17.437000+08:00","text":"這個預算因為是臺鐵公司這邊編列的，我這邊就沒有掌握編列的情況。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:45:19.078000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:45:31.703000+08:00","text":"次長，這個部分能不能在今天下班之前把這個預算到底怎麼回事、怎麼執行的、編多少、缺多少、到底送了多少跟交通委員會的委員交代一下？","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:45:32.423000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:45:41.884000+08:00","text":"因為照你這樣說，好像是關於鐵路平交道安全的相關計畫，你說預算不夠，難道是我們交通委員會的委員過去都不支持你們嗎？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:45:41.884000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:45:54.426000+08:00","text":"我覺得這帽子又扣太大了，所以我想能不能在今天下班前說明這個預算到底是怎麼回事、為什麼要到120年，如果是因為預算的關係，我想沒有這個問題，我們委員會全力支持，好不好？","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"伍次長勝園","start":"2026-06-18T10:45:54.426000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T10:45:55.426000+08:00","text":"好，我們把這個資料整理一下。","quality":0},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-06-18T10:45:54.566000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T10:45:55.587000+08:00","text":"你們加油一點，謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T10:45:56.087000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T10:46:00.087000+08:00","text":"謝謝萬美玲委員，謝謝次長跟局長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T10:46:00.387000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T10:46:05.815571+08:00","text":"接下來請羅明才委員發言，羅明才、羅明才不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T10:46:06.115571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T10:46:09.258429+08:00","text":"接下來請蔡易餘委員發言。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":420,"blocks":[["萬委員美玲：（10時36分）好，謝謝召委，有請次長。"],["主席：請伍次長。"],["伍次長勝園：委員好。"],["萬委員美玲：次長好。在上個禮拜本席有看到你在一個針對現在不再興建鐵路平交道的訪問當中提到不管是鐵路地下化或者是高架化，您都希望都市發展不要被鐵路切斷，也就是所有的馬路不要因為鐵路而造成零碎、破碎的狀態。"],["伍次長勝園：是。"],["萬委員美玲：你希望用這個方式讓市區交通更順暢，但是桃園鐵路地下化……其實當時會從高架到地下，也是經過評估以後，希望地下化更能夠讓整個縱貫道跟後站之間的馬路不要有這樣零碎且被鐵路平交道切斷的狀況，同時要安全還有交通順暢，這些都是現在您所說的目標嘛！所以，鐵路地下化跟交通部次長您現在的表達其實是一致的。既然我們是一致地想往這個目標去前進，那我就不理解了，今天不管是魯明哲委員、邱若華委員到本席，陸陸續續在總質詢、在交通委員會的質詢，我們都在講，但是鐵路地下化真的是一延再延！我們桃園人常常在一句話講，說如果活得不夠久，根本沒有辦法等到鐵路地下化的那一天。我覺得怎麼會讓我們桃園市的市民如此失望！當然，鐵路地下化相關的變更計畫，本席也提了非常多次，您以及部長都知道。在去年8月我們就送請行政院簽核，但是到現在超過十個月了，問了部長，部長說要去溝通，溝通完以後也沒有下文，今天特別問一下次長，到底為什麼行政院遲遲都沒有辦法核定？理由是什麼？我們在幾次反映之後，你們到底有沒有去問過行政院？"],["伍次長勝園：跟委員報告，其實這個案子我們也很急，因為……"],["萬委員美玲：你們也很急嘛！"],["伍次長勝園：真的很急。"],["萬委員美玲：謝謝！我代表桃園市民謝謝交通部有很急！"],["伍次長勝園：我們也要……"],["萬委員美玲：但是除了急之外，具體的作為是什麼？"],["伍次長勝園：是，跟委員報告，因為這個案子剛剛也有提到，整個由高架改為地下，確實對整個都市縫合是真的比較好，委員大概也知道這中間有一些修正計畫，修正計畫包括南延部分……"],["萬委員美玲：次長，我的時間有限，我就在問你嘛，這個修正計畫我們已經送上去這麼久了……"],["伍次長勝園：都已經OK，我們都……"],["萬委員美玲：十個月為什麼遲遲都不簽核？為什麼？"],["伍次長勝園：這個部分，因為我們送到……"],["萬委員美玲：你這麼急，那你有沒有去了解呢？"],["伍次長勝園：我們已經送到行政院，之前我們也一直在催進度，會後再跟國發會來了解目前還有沒有其他的問題。"],["萬委員美玲：之前這十個月當中……"],["伍次長勝園：我們在中間都有跟他們溝通。"],["萬委員美玲：這十個月當中，你有沒有去了解？"],["伍次長勝園：有，我們都有去溝通。"],["萬委員美玲：急就會了解嘛！那了解後得到的答案是什麼呢？"],["伍次長勝園：大概有幾個，他們有詢問我們幾個修正計畫，包括南延增加的或是一些都市計畫增加一百多億，文字部分……"],["萬委員美玲：這個部分，交通部其實已經跟他們報告過很多次了。"],["伍次長勝園：是，但這中間因為他們還是有一些意見，我們還是要跟他……"],["萬委員美玲：所以他們一直聽不明白？"],["伍次長勝園：對，這段期間我們還是有跟他們說明。"],["萬委員美玲：還是聽不明白？"],["伍次長勝園：不是，剛剛有提到，因為這部分他們還是有一些疑義啦，我們也跟他們說明過了，但是因為還沒有核下來，我們不知道……我們再去了解一下。"],["萬委員美玲：我認為交通部跟我們的立場、目標一致，希望鐵路計畫早日做完，然後你們也同意了、也送請簽核了，時間過了這麼久，你也急，那是不是應該要再加速去催促？"],["伍次長勝園：是。"],["萬委員美玲：再來。現在這個計畫當中，當時我們的計畫寫的是769億嘛，我們也要知道，這當中不管是美伊戰爭或者是物價飆漲等等，只會越來越嚴重，769億現在還夠嗎？"],["伍次長勝園：現在應該是到一千四百多億。"],["萬委員美玲：什麼？現在要由769億增加到一千四百多億？"],["伍次長勝園：對，整個計畫加起來，本來是一千多，加了七百多，變成1,800。"],["萬委員美玲：次長，我們本來追加769億嘛。"],["伍次長勝園：對，追加了七百多億。"],["萬委員美玲：現在追加了這769億，還有沒有要再增加？還夠嗎？"],["伍次長勝園：目前沒有，剛剛提到幾個大因素，一個是物價的問題……"],["萬委員美玲：次長，我認為啦，你恐怕還是要再重新盤點一次，因為769億是一年前的數字，一年後的今天，769億還夠不夠？本席其實一直在提醒大家，如果我們一直延宕、一直延宕，原物料一直上漲，這個會造成什麼結果？就是惡性循環，我們就是會一直惡性循環，我們過去為什麼會有這個追加計畫？就是因為我們前面延宕，延宕了以後，結果因為戰爭、世界的因素等等，缺工缺料，所以我們才會提出這個計畫，然後去追加，現在追加的計畫如果你再延宕一年，這個追加計畫會不會要再追加一次？你了解我在講什麼嗎？"],["伍次長勝園：我知道。"],["萬委員美玲：您都知道嘛，所以很急啊，再幫我們去詢問一下，好不好？去催促一下，好不好？"],["伍次長勝園：好。"],["萬委員美玲：可不可以在一個禮拜之內讓我知道一下進度究竟是到哪裡？"],["伍次長勝園：好，我們可以來……"],["萬委員美玲：一週好嗎？"],["伍次長勝園：好。"],["萬委員美玲：接下來，我看到您還有一個報告說為了要降低平交道事故，臺鐵現在有規劃針對全臺397處平交道設置了障礙物偵測系統，我覺得這個立意很好，也覺得很棒，目前已經完成了313處，可是我看到全臺其實有415處的平交道，為什麼你們寫的是397？"],["伍次長勝園：不是，因為它有一些優先順序，我想這部分我們原則上……"],["萬委員美玲：優先順序？"],["伍次長勝園：不是，剛剛講的，就是幾個比較急的我們會先做啦，現在後面這幾處我們也會把它做起來。"],["萬委員美玲：沒有，你的總數量到底是多少？"],["伍次長勝園：全部都已經做起來，有些是因為……"],["萬委員美玲：總數量是多少？"],["伍次長勝園：總共415處。"],["萬委員美玲：總共415處，為什麼你只針對397處來做？剩下的不重要嗎？"],["伍次長勝園：有些是因為剛剛講的地理條件沒辦法去增設，這部分必須要有另外一個配套措施，這就是這一次修法的原因。"],["萬委員美玲：次長，你要不要換人答啊？你這樣子，我替你感到好辛苦耶，都要旁邊的人給你遞小抄，或是跟你提醒。"],["伍次長勝園：沒有、沒有，這個真的就是這樣。剛剛講的415處有些剩下的沒有辦法做，有些就是因為地理環境沒辦法去增設。"],["萬委員美玲：所以有扣除掉一些是地理環境不能做的？"],["伍次長勝園：就是扣除這些。"],["萬委員美玲：好，那我再請教一下，這313處你們有沒有去驗收過，看你們做完以後的效果好不好？使用上有沒有問題？你們有驗收過嗎？"],["伍次長勝園：目前驗收都是OK的，沒問題。"],["萬委員美玲：那我們現在還剩多少要完成？"],["伍次長勝園：84。"],["萬委員美玲：我看你這樣好痛苦喔，你要不要看誰比較了解就由他來回答，次長要加油啊，好不好？因為你負責督導業務，也要了解一下啦，好不好？我們現在還有84處，這84處預計要到什麼時候可以全部完成？"],["林科長永聰：跟委員說明，臺鐵的部分預估會在120年完成。"],["萬委員美玲：120年？為什麼？為什麼要這麼久？"],["林科長永聰：因為有經費的問題。"],["萬委員美玲：有經費的問題？所以你預算不夠？"],["林科長永聰：是。"],["萬委員美玲：好，我這麼講啦，次長，如果現在平交道還必須存在、無法消失的，我們當然要優化，強化這些安全相關的配備，這是很急的事情，我認為這麼急的事情而且攸關安全，沒有委員會反對這樣的預算啊，那你們自己就要好好去編預算，我們一定同意的，所以你執行就要快啊，但現在你們跟我講一個理由說沒有錢，這太奇怪了，沒有預算真的太奇怪了，我想召委大概也聽不下去，對不對？而且這也不是一個很大筆的經費，這絕對不是很大筆的經費，而且是必要的經費，那為什麼不好好編預算，把它送上來，我們趕快來做呢？對不對？你們一天到晚針對不痛不癢的東西都在編什麼特別預算了，這個既然是很有效果也很有用的，你今天跟我說要到120年，因為沒有預算，這在說什麼呢？次長。"],["伍次長勝園：這個預算因為是臺鐵公司這邊編列的，我這邊就沒有掌握編列的情況。"],["萬委員美玲：次長，這個部分能不能在今天下班之前把這個預算到底怎麼回事、怎麼執行的、編多少、缺多少、到底送了多少跟交通委員會的委員交代一下？因為照你這樣說，好像是關於鐵路平交道安全的相關計畫，你說預算不夠，難道是我們交通委員會的委員過去都不支持你們嗎？我覺得這帽子又扣太大了，所以我想能不能在今天下班前說明這個預算到底是怎麼回事、為什麼要到120年，如果是因為預算的關係，我想沒有這個問題，我們委員會全力支持，好不好？"],["伍次長勝園：好，我們把這個資料整理一下。"],["萬委員美玲：你們加油一點，謝謝。"],["伍次長勝園：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝萬美玲委員，謝謝次長跟局長。","接下來請羅明才委員發言，羅明才、羅明才不在。","接下來請蔡易餘委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":514,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-23-19","speakers":["黃健豪","李昆澤","洪孟楷","陳雪生","林俊憲","徐富癸","許智傑","魯明哲","邱若華","萬美玲","蔡易餘","陳清龍","何欣純","陳素月","游顥","傅崐萁"],"page_start":477,"meetingDate":["2026-06-18"],"gazette_id":"1155303","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155303_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管交通作業基金─鐵\n道發展基金分預算；二、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主\n管交通作業基金─臺鐵局撥入資產及債務管理基金分預算（詢答）","agenda_id":"1155303_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}