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11:50:45","會議時間":"2026-06-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查\n(一)委員蘇清泉等20人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)委員林月琴等16人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第三十條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)委員王育敏等21人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(五)委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第十一條、第十二條及第三十二條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(六)委員徐巧芯等21人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)委員葉元之等17人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)委員黃仁等19人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)委員張嘉郡等19人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)委員羅廷瑋等22人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)委員羅智強等17人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n(十三)委員鄭正鈐等17人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n(十四)委員林倩綺等23人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n(十五)委員廖先翔等16人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n(十六)委員王育敏等23人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n(十七)委員王育敏等21人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第四十三條及第五十二條條文修正      草案」案。\n(十八)委員廖偉翔等23人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n(十九)委員葛如鈞等18人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n(二十)委員李彥秀等19人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n【進行詢答及逐條審查】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":0.72284375,"end":1.5834687500000002,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":6.37596875,"end":8.215343750000002,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":8.552843750000001,"end":8.907218750000002,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":9.970343750000001,"end":10.98284375,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":17.27721875,"end":17.31096875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":17.31096875,"end":17.37846875,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":17.37846875,"end":17.41221875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":17.41221875,"end":17.74971875,"speaker_score":0.981},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":17.74971875,"end":35.04659375,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":35.68784375,"end":36.548468750000005,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":37.20659375,"end":41.070968750000006,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":41.45909375,"end":46.251593750000005,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":46.84221875,"end":50.369093750000005,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":50.774093750000006,"end":55.17846875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":55.39784375,"end":68.20596875000001,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":68.62784375000001,"end":69.69096875000001,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":70.55159375000001,"end":71.07471875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":72.10409375,"end":74.29784375,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":74.51721875,"end":76.77846875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":76.96409375,"end":78.02721875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":78.82034375,"end":81.99284375,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":82.66784375,"end":93.87284375,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":94.34534375000001,"end":96.85971875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":97.77096875000001,"end":99.03659375000001,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":99.35721875,"end":100.31909375000001,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":100.92659375000001,"end":101.92221875000001,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":102.36096875000001,"end":112.48596875000001,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":112.75596875000001,"end":113.66721875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":113.97096875000001,"end":115.42221875000001,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":115.99596875,"end":124.70346875000001,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":125.19284375000001,"end":128.80409375000002,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":129.54659375,"end":130.39034375,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":131.57159375,"end":132.36471875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":132.80346875,"end":133.93409375000002,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":135.35159375,"end":140.02596875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":140.31284375,"end":141.00471875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":141.89909375000002,"end":142.77659375000002,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":143.90721875,"end":145.96596875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":147.43409375000002,"end":149.13846875000002,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":149.96534375000002,"end":151.72034375,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":152.12534375,"end":153.10409375,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":153.45846875,"end":154.35284375,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"羅委員廷瑋","start":155.04471875000002,"end":156.07409375,"speake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高雄市校士會議他們也說校士會議前有一個什麼調和機制這個委員所提的教保的部分是不是也要納入"},{"start":507.278,"end":531.219,"text":"跟委員報告剛剛您提的是一個構想但現在都沒有在中央的部分都沒有所以我說希望你們研擬啊不要只讓各縣市自己做嘛中央為主然後給予這樣子的一個指引鼓勵地方都要做這有沒有機會研擬一下非常感謝昭偉直接就很民事的提了這一個那我們會列入跟相關不管團體或地方政府討論的議題部長您覺得呢"},{"start":534.224,"end":559.476,"text":"我想署長剛才也回答的一個很清楚我們會跟地方可以認同嗎我想這個調和的其實很重要啦他們願意來做這樣的我想我們的因為的確我們在公聽會的時候也有很多人在講到不只是補助很重要更重要的是他聽到很多的家長說我不敢生啊因為我怕生出來我的孩子會被虐待啊"},{"start":560.917,"end":575.295,"text":"這顯現出什麼第一我們許多的媒體在個案上放大讓許多的年輕家庭有這樣子的認為普遍台灣的幼教都好像會虐待兒童我覺得這是不對的"},{"start":575.996,"end":592.79,"text":"第二 親師之間的一些信任關係衝突開始急劇的惡化所以不只是我們現在的校師會議檢討我認為幼稚園或者是拖音中心這些狀況也一樣啊所以還是回過頭來問你"},{"start":594.031,"end":612.127,"text":"我們現在討論到校師會議我也為了這個開公聽會了你也看到公聽會的內容甚至有老師非常非常的生氣難過他講如果我告訴孩子你出了這個門門要關起來要不然冷氣會流失三次"},{"start":613.582,"end":640.772,"text":"給大家三次機會大家都還是一樣不關門 冷氣流失 浪費電源好 他這樣子停了冷氣結果被家長投訴請他站立反省被投訴有關老師的一些管教選適當的班基金我們應該要支持老師的專業的所以支持老師剛才委員提到教保條文"},{"start":641.152,"end":657.218,"text":"是因為我們的這個幼兒園通常它的規模都比較小不像我們公幼或者學校裡邊學校是可能有幾十班幼兒園通常都是幾班它的老師它的編制所以這個不如我們是跟地方政府一邊看"},{"start":659.199,"end":684.185,"text":"他們法治局有調解委員會也有一個所謂的教保調和委員會由專門的教保專業人員來處理這個調和的問題現在的中小學的規模確實有落差我知道所以要以縣市政府中央要鼓勵縣市政府去辦理這樣子的業務嘛我想以教保這一個部分確實由地方政府來成立可能相對是適當的但你要給予指引啊是"},{"start":684.705,"end":705.496,"text":"對不對 你中央主管機關你要給予指引再來 這也關係到我們現在校師會議嘛會前會要不要討論 要不要調解嘛這都是有關於這部分連動性的所以 我們現在看到我們這對於現在老師的權利有委員提出了離線權 柯市任委員也很關心我們一直在不斷地講 在倡議現在在講說所謂的調和"},{"start":708.297,"end":728.742,"text":"那還有一部分我要直接問你啦剛剛我就直接提到了我們公聽會有這麼多老師講這麼多的個案甚至上次有一個老師被戳屁股然後呢下醫師不小心推壞孩子然後孩子受傷啊他的這個校師會議相關的評比就成立了這個案件你知道嗎好"},{"start":730.302,"end":748.911,"text":"那當然你會跟我講這個舊案舊案現在都有更新的那你也會跟我說我們因為更新了校士會議所以大幅度的減少這個我都知道我現在就問你一句話校士會議你說6月要開始把這些數據收集你大概7月幾號要更新校士會議"},{"start":751.815,"end":773.348,"text":"不一定是更新啦,我們會檢討,但是七月底之前應該會有一個比較完整的輪廓因為我們是今年的一月才新的範圍,也感謝委員會的支持更完整的輪廓,我稱之為更新不為過吧逐步的檢討,讓它變得更好,這不是更新嗎?難道是更舊?"},{"start":774.691,"end":801.826,"text":"還是二話所以如果你七月底前會有一個更新的版本那我七月底前將你的這個新的辦法我們會有一個完整的評估也會讓委員會有完整的評估就會有相對應的作為可能會更新出一個新的版本嘛逐步修正嘛對不對所以我就問你很簡單嘛現階段的校試會議如果我們要求你"},{"start":803.1,"end":827.192,"text":"不被查退回請你再修正以後提出新的版本可以嗎如果辦法是好的他似乎那辦法是你想啊不是我想啊所以我請你我現在退回去請你更新請你再逐步的修正再補一個新的這樣可以嗎我要跟我們報告喔如果從現在的數據來看"},{"start":828.888,"end":854.109,"text":"我想委員過去是非常充滿智慧的因為我們現在都往好的方向走那能不能讓他繼續走就是說他有沒有一定要更改因為以我們現在的分流制度跟匿名的所有的包含各自的保密等於說沒有做到保密也刻以刑責等等所有的東西我想這個部分"},{"start":855.33,"end":874.192,"text":"我保留彈性但是我也要跟委員報告我們一頁修正的目前看起來是完好的讓學校裡面親師更能夠彼此有如果真的是好的禮拜一的公聽會我就沒有看到教師一片叫好啦當然有家長團體說不能夠廢除"},{"start":877.043,"end":905.841,"text":"但是我看到的會議是形成的共識是可以更新嘛可以逐步修正調整嘛所以我剛才公文報告的是你說1月我上禮拜才辦公聽會大家還是認為還是有更新的必要啊包括還是有許多的團體指出匿名檢舉的部分並沒有完全消失啊包括還有委員指出網路有同學在教要搞老師直接就用相關的消失會議就打到爆"},{"start":906.821,"end":930.041,"text":"允許匿名投訴嗎肯定不是嘛有人說用網路的部分他願意所以我們願意接受匿名投訴嗎匿名的投訴這個部分你還是要徹查到底有沒有這些機制完全的嚇阻匿名我們都會做double confirm我們都會去做確認的所以在這個部分我還是跟委員報告"},{"start":931.806,"end":946.576,"text":"委員過去的一個支持大家的支持我們心存感激讓我們企業有一個更清楚的整個的一個數據的分析最後我要講今天我們提出了幼兒教育照顧法來做逐條討論"},{"start":948.397,"end":974.313,"text":"我很难过我们来逐条讨论的时候这个时候才看到我们教育部愿意去对症下药刚刚有人提到不管是合格教师跟教保员的薪资问题到许多团体 幼教团体跟我们讲他们现在以前为了久任奖金为了教师薪资不断的在发声都完全没有被重视到"},{"start":974.893,"end":990.092,"text":"然後現階段我們又看到了私生筆的問題有時候還是有很多沒有跟進私生筆我們一直有最高的標準可是逐步在進行但是真的有做到嗎現場狀況很多的幼教團體也很擔憂"},{"start":991.894,"end":1014.369,"text":"跟我們報告我們公立的跟非營利這一個部分我們已經有99%降低到從今年開始從1比15降低到1比12所以是公國跟非營利嗎是是是對嘛那總公共跟所謂的私立這就是我們一直在講的教育補助逐步平權抽到公國公用就是重大熱痛沒有抽到的人"},{"start":1021.013,"end":1046.448,"text":"他就是覺得 哇 為什麼我這麼衰所以我們才會說 要所謂的公托公幼免費施託施幼現在在討論要不要增大補助嘛我當然知道你施生比公托公幼已經完成了啊目前這一個評價未達八成公共化未達四成事實上全國以現在台中市事實上是相對多的"},{"start":1047.495,"end":1067.136,"text":"會後我可以把這個資料給委員我歡迎你提供相對的資料但我還是要告訴你我們現在教育現場遇到的困境讓更多的年輕家庭能夠獲得到一個更好的一個你的資料我可以提可以參考一下但我還是要再講現在我們面臨到的就是家庭壓力太大"},{"start":1067.757,"end":1095.402,"text":"那現在我們喊出了每個月五千賴清德總統也跟進嘛從原本說國民黨有可能掏空財庫啊到現在賴清德總統跟進以後那我們在喊其他的一些政策的時候我們歡迎大家來質疑來檢討但是我們希望大家好好坐下來討論把事情能夠凝聚共識來幫助這些家庭嘛不要每一次我們在喊這些政策的時候就說我們的政策有疑慮"},{"start":1096.542,"end":1108.468,"text":"然後換成賴清德總統跟進的時候他就可以那是什麼標準我不懂啊我想不要賴總統說的都是金一兩天啊我們講的都是好像是把我們的話當成是我們的話都是好像洪水猛獸啊"},{"start":1114.87,"end":1137.773,"text":"這個真的要特別拜託你剛剛提到的調和委員會校事會議還有身心調試架這些狀況都是教學現場最第一線大家一直在反應的希望你提出解套來說服我們我們可以不用做因為你已經在做了就是因為看到你沒有做好我們才今天負責任的提出方法謝謝委員提醒我想我們會持續的盡盡的努力謝謝羅委員請部長回答"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:31:44.052000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:31:49.402000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請部長。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T11:31:49.402000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:31:49.663000+08:00","text":"有請部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:32:00.281000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:32:00.521000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:32:01.121000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:32:08.424000+08:00","text":"部長，我簡單扼要地跟你探討幾個問題，因為前面委員也都常常在跟你探討這些問題，我們要找出問題的解決辦法。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:32:09.644000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:32:17.787000+08:00","text":"現在針對這一份「116年度學校青年服勤動員準備分類計畫」，網路上刊登出來以後家長當然譁然。","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:32:20.304000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:32:37.109000+08:00","text":"之前有特別提到，您有說會全面停用，我認為這次又把它移花接木地再次補上，我覺得這個部分就是在騙臺灣的家長，我覺得你們現階段應該要說清楚、講明白。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:32:37.729000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:32:53.601000+08:00","text":"當然之前國防部也說，如果有疑慮，甚至沒有什麼實際作為的話，這個部分就應該直接予以廢除，可惜最後沒有看到廢除，反而出現了「116年度學校青年服勤動員準備分類計畫」。","quality":0.771},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:32:55.162000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:32:56.963000+08:00","text":"教育部現在的說法就只是防災啦！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:32:58.365000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:33:12.315000+08:00","text":"但作為一個教育部部長，希望這些文字用語能夠更加地清楚明瞭，不要讓人民活在恐慌當中，所以請你誠實地回答全臺灣的百萬家長。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:33:13.756000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:33:19.498000+08:00","text":"第一，為什麼防災計畫要直接綁定「國軍一級加強戒備」？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:33:21.190000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:33:29.899000+08:00","text":"我們往後看，它也有提到二級的部分，當然我也會講到你剛才所說的文字用語。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:33:30.319000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:33:36.405000+08:00","text":"為什麼國軍一級戒備學校就要開設青年報到站，進行編組、分配勤務？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:33:36.405000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:33:37.346000+08:00","text":"這不是動員的話，什麼才是動員？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:33:40.208000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:33:46.470000+08:00","text":"第三，當時你跟我們說會停用，現在又有「116年度學校青年服勤動員準備分類計畫」了？","quality":0.576},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:33:46.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:33:56.714000+08:00","text":"當然剛剛你們有說，這裡面有提到一句關鍵的用語，你們說軍警勤務排除在外。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:33:58.975000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:34:08.776000+08:00","text":"以上這些都是你們寫的，也是你們的用字遣詞，我都幫你們補上了，但我認為這都不夠白話文，你為什麼不直接寫得更清楚？","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:34:10.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:34:21.546000+08:00","text":"相關戰時所因應到的這些用語就直接寫上去，都全面排除，不要都寫得這麼不清不楚嘛！","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:34:22.667000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:34:43.686000+08:00","text":"我們看到這邊有一級加強戒備、二級加強戒備、青年報到站、開設演練、鼓勵青年各項演練，當然也有寫到救濟的部分、後勤的部分，但是我想這些東西有提到「動員」的都會讓家長非常地擔憂，所以我有具體的問題要請你回答。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:34:46.023000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:34:51.786000+08:00","text":"有關「116年度學校青年服勤動員準備分類計畫」可不可以寫得更加直白？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:34:52.287000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:34:54.848000+08:00","text":"可不可以寫得讓家長更加安心？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:34:55.408000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:34:56.309000+08:00","text":"可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許副司長嘉倩","start":"2026-06-18T11:34:56.309000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:35:09.996000+08:00","text":"跟立委報告，不好意思，因為這個青年服勤計畫其實是依照全動法的要求，所以我們才要訂定這樣的計畫，因此相關的用語我們也是依照國安會還有國防部全動署那邊的要求……","quality":0.681},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:35:09.996000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:35:22.200000+08:00","text":"我知道，你們有稍微解釋了，這是依據法令而來的嘛，所以剛剛也有委員講全動法也有寫嘛，包括要支援所謂的戰情任務的時候，這個部分會讓大家有所疑慮嘛！對。","quality":0.788},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:35:23.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:35:26.662000+08:00","text":"你說你的用語都是因為國安單位給你的建議……","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"許副司長嘉倩","start":"2026-06-18T11:35:27.102000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:35:27.222000+08:00","text":"對，所以我們會……","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:35:27.222000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:35:29.123000+08:00","text":"那是不是可以有一個解釋版、白話文版？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"許副司長嘉倩","start":"2026-06-18T11:35:30.463000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:35:40.515000+08:00","text":"我們之後會再跟相關的單位反映，未來的計畫內容是不是可以讓我們再寫得更清楚、明確一點，讓家長可以安心？","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:35:41.276000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:35:53.493000+08:00","text":"所以要再次請教部長，確定一下是不是會全面排除任何戰情業務，不會讓孩子上戰場，是嗎？","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:35:53.493000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:36:00.677000+08:00","text":"本來全動法的精神對未滿18歲的高中生就是抱持這樣的目的。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:36:01.017000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:36:03.799000+08:00","text":"我知道，但我現在就問你，請你直接回答我。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:36:04.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:36:05.300000+08:00","text":"所以是沒有問題的。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:36:05.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:36:05.660000+08:00","text":"可以喔！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:36:06.921000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:36:13.485000+08:00","text":"事實上就是沒有涉及到軍隊跟警察的勤務。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:36:14.065000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:36:17.868000+08:00","text":"我想家長會擔憂，所以我們一定要問清楚、講明白……","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:36:18.448000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:36:25.213000+08:00","text":"我想教育部在這個部分也做了很多的說明，也感謝委員再次幫我們澄清。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:36:25.774000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:36:39.363000+08:00","text":"第二個，看到後面的這個議題，有關幼兒教育及照顧法，本週一下午也召開過這樣的公聽會，現場也有許多團體來發表意見，有幾個問題想跟您請教一下，我們先看PPT。","quality":0.928},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:36:39.663000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:37:03.444000+08:00","text":"有關補助的差距跟教育選擇的受限，以及不只是為了校事會議，我們現在看到教保現場也升高了許多的誤解與壓力，這個問題你有掌握到嗎？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:37:06.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:37:22.030000+08:00","text":"我們一直在朝好的方向前進，譬如剛才我跟另外一位委員報告的，我們事實上會延長課後的照顧，包含寒、暑假也納進來，包含減少學生人數（師生比）等等許多配套措施。","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:37:22.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:37:26.253000+08:00","text":"部長有做，給你一個讚，但做得不多啊！","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:37:28.582000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:37:28.982000+08:00","text":"不會不多啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:37:29.243000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:37:31.564000+08:00","text":"真的是全面在做，而且這還是跟地方政府……","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:37:31.684000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:37:33.085000+08:00","text":"可能每個人的標準不同啦！是。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:37:34.306000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:37:35.367000+08:00","text":"對你來說，你覺得很多……","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:37:35.367000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T11:37:37.008000+08:00","text":"我從來沒有滿意過。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:37:37.008000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:37:42.151000+08:00","text":"對第一現場的所有老師還有我們民意代表來說，我覺得不多啦！","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:37:42.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:37:42.592000+08:00","text":"好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:37:43.032000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:37:47.475000+08:00","text":"各自解讀沒有關係，但是我要講的是，現場的狀況就是如此。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:37:48.195000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:37:52.838000+08:00","text":"剛剛也有委員提到，我們就講了，因為補助差距會不會讓公幼沒有人讀？","quality":0.793},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:37:52.978000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:37:57.682000+08:00","text":"你知道為什麼現階段很多公幼的許多家長不選擇嗎？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:37:57.682000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:37:57.902000+08:00","text":"你知道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:37:59.083000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:38:03.187000+08:00","text":"當然就是剛才……我想跟私幼……它課後的延長……","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:38:03.187000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:38:04.568000+08:00","text":"就是課後延長的問題嘛！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:38:05.209000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:38:09.774000+08:00","text":"當然你們有提出相關的計畫，希望鼓勵他們把這個部分補上嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:38:10.795000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:38:22.486000+08:00","text":"但是實際的狀況，我上個禮拜接受媒體採訪，私底下跟媒體聊天時也關心對方，他說他抽到公托了，我恭喜他，但他說他可能要放棄了。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:38:23.006000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:38:23.467000+08:00","text":"很簡單嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:38:23.767000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:38:29.011000+08:00","text":"因為就是沒採用課後延托的部分，所以他沒有辦法只好到私托去。","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:38:31.133000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:38:40.500000+08:00","text":"現在就是有補助的差距造成了教育選擇受限，所以我們有幾個實際的問題希望你能具體地回應，請看下一張PPT。","quality":0.646},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:38:42.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:38:55.973000+08:00","text":"教育的補助要逐步地平權，這部分就是今天我們要來探討的，國民黨也很負責任地希望建立整個0到6歲完整的家庭支持計畫政策。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:38:57.513000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:39:06.177000+08:00","text":"在你現在的報告裡也寫到初步方向是認同，但是希望後續有更多討論的機會以形成共識，對吧？部長？","quality":0.805},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:39:13.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:39:22.849000+08:00","text":"如果不違反財政紀律，因為中央跟地方確實是要合作的，所以這個部分我們還是要先跟地方討論。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:39:23.269000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:39:41.773000+08:00","text":"所以我現在要先問你中間的這一題「成立教保的調和委員會」，它就像是調解單位，車禍進法院前要先調解，但是教保的調和需要專業的教保人士成立這樣的組織。","quality":0.924},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:39:42.313000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:39:46.076000+08:00","text":"成立這樣的教保調和委員會，你可以認同嗎？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:39:46.076000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:39:47.557000+08:00","text":"可不可以直接回答我，可不可以認同？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:39:47.557000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T11:39:50.205000+08:00","text":"我請署長……","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-18T11:39:50.205000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:40:02.818000+08:00","text":"謝謝召委提的這個建議，目前關於師生調和案件的機制，我們看到有一個縣市──高雄市在研擬這樣一個配套，我們會了解……","quality":0.745},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:40:02.818000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:40:05.341000+08:00","text":"他們也說校事會議前有一個調和機制……","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-18T11:40:05.821000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:40:06.502000+08:00","text":"委員所提的……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:40:06.822000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:40:08.905000+08:00","text":"教保的部分是不是也要納入？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-18T11:40:10.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:40:15.643000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，剛剛您提的是一個構想，但現在都沒有，在中央的部分都沒有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:40:15.723000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:40:16.844000+08:00","text":"所以我們都希望你們提啊！","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-18T11:40:16.844000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T11:40:17.844000+08:00","text":"所以委員所提這個……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:40:17.364000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:40:19.366000+08:00","text":"不要讓各縣市自己做嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:40:19.626000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:40:26.152000+08:00","text":"中央為主，然後給予這樣子的一個指引，鼓勵地方都要做，這有沒有機會研擬一下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-18T11:40:26.712000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:40:33.939000+08:00","text":"非常感謝召委直接就很明示的提了這一個，我們會列入跟相關團體或地方政府討論的議題。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:40:33.939000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:40:34.199000+08:00","text":"部長，您覺得呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:40:37.224000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:40:41.426000+08:00","text":"我想署長剛才也回答地很清楚，我們會跟地方……","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:40:41.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:40:43.127000+08:00","text":"可以認同嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:40:43.127000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:40:45.268000+08:00","text":"我想這個調和的機制很重要啦。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:40:46.208000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:40:48.849000+08:00","text":"如果地方覺得他們願意來做這樣的……我想我們會尊重。","quality":0.591},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:40:49.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:41:04.818000+08:00","text":"的確在公聽會的時候也有很多人講到，不只是補助很重要，更重要的是，他聽到很多家長說：「我不敢生，因為我怕生出來，我的孩子會被虐待」，這顯現出什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:41:04.818000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:41:18.275000+08:00","text":"第一，我們許多的媒體在個案上放大，讓許多的年輕家庭有這樣子的認為，普遍臺灣的幼教好像都會虐待兒童，我覺得這是不對的。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:41:18.996000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:41:33.588000+08:00","text":"第二，親師之間的一些信任關係衝突開始急遽惡化，所以不只是我們現在的校事會議要檢討，我認為幼稚園或者托嬰中心這些狀況也一樣。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:41:34.509000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:42:13.548000+08:00","text":"所以還是回過頭來問你，我們現在討論到校事會議，我也為了這個開公聽會，你也看到公聽會的內容，甚至有老師非常非常的生氣難過，他提到，如果他告訴孩子「你出了這個門，門要關起來，要不然冷氣會流失」，三次，他給大家三次機會，大家都還是一樣不關門，冷氣流失、浪費電源，好，因為這樣子他停了冷氣，結果被家長投訴；請學生站立反省也被投訴，多關心他被投訴、沒關心他被投訴……","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:42:13.548000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:42:19.150000+08:00","text":"有關老師的一些管教權，適當的班級經營我們應該要支持老師專業的判斷。","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:42:19.310000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:42:21.691000+08:00","text":"所以支持老師，我現在就問……","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:42:21.691000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:42:40.198000+08:00","text":"剛才委員提到教保條文是因為我們的幼兒園通常規模都比較小，不像我們公幼或者學校裡，學校可能有幾十班，幼兒園通常都是幾班，對於它的老師及編制，所以這個部分我們還是跟地方政府一邊看……","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:42:40.198000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T11:42:42.199000+08:00","text":"所以鼓勵地方政府像調解委員會嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:42:42.199000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:42:51.661000+08:00","text":"他們法制局有調解委員會，也有一個所謂的教保調和委員會，由專門的教保專業人員來處理這個調和的問題。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:42:51.661000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:42:54.722000+08:00","text":"所以我同意跟地方來談，以現在的中小學規模確實有落差，我們來跟地方……","quality":0.467},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:42:54.822000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:43:00.003000+08:00","text":"我知道，所以中央要鼓勵縣市政府去辦理這樣子的業務嘛！","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:43:00.283000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:43:05.945000+08:00","text":"是，我想以幼保這一個部分，確實由地方政府來成立可能相對適當。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:43:05.965000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:43:07.165000+08:00","text":"但你要給予指引啊。是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:43:07.705000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:43:08.105000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:43:08.105000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:43:09.566000+08:00","text":"你中央主管機關要給予指引。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:43:09.706000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:43:12.127000+08:00","text":"再來，這也關係到我們現在的校事會議嘛！","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:43:12.708000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:43:14.368000+08:00","text":"會前會要不要討論、要不要調解？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:43:15.129000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:43:17.710000+08:00","text":"這都是有關於這部分連動性的。是。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:43:18.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:43:28.476000+08:00","text":"所以我們現在看到對於現在老師的權利，有委員提出了離線權，柯志恩委員也很關心，我們一直不斷在講、在倡議，包括現在在講所謂的調和。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:43:31.757000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:43:51.722000+08:00","text":"還有一部分我要直接問你啦，剛剛我就直接提到了，我們公聽會有這麼多老師講這麼多的個案，甚至上次有一個老師被戳屁股，然後下意識不小心推開孩子，孩子受傷，他在校事會議相關的評比就成立了，這個案件你知道嗎？","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:43:51.722000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T11:43:53.522000+08:00","text":"我知道。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:43:53.522000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:44:01.846000+08:00","text":"當然你會跟我講這是舊案，現在都有更新了，你也會跟我說，你們因為更新了校事會議，所以大幅度地減少，這個我都知道。","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:44:02.446000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:44:11.911000+08:00","text":"我現在就問你一句話，有關校事會議，你說6月要開始收集這些數據，你大概7月幾號要更新校事會議？","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:44:14.815000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:44:26.262000+08:00","text":"不一定是更新，我們會檢討，但7月底之前應該會有一個比較完整的輪廓，因為我們是今年1月才有新的辦法，也感謝委員的支持。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:44:26.903000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:44:31.105000+08:00","text":"好，所以更完整的輪廓我稱之為更新不為過吧？","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:44:32.566000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:44:36.068000+08:00","text":"逐步地檢討、讓它變得更好，這不是更新嗎？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:44:36.068000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T11:44:37.068000+08:00","text":"我尊重委員的一個用詞。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:44:36.068000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:44:36.348000+08:00","text":"難道是更舊？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:44:37.691000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:44:37.691000+08:00","text":"還是惡化？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:44:37.691000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T11:44:40.513000+08:00","text":"我尊重委員的說法。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:44:40.513000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:44:47.817000+08:00","text":"所以如果你7月底前會有一個更新的版本，我7月底前將你的這一個……","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:44:47.817000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:44:51.539000+08:00","text":"應該是說新的辦法我們會有一個完整的評估，也會讓委員知道。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:44:51.539000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:44:58.903000+08:00","text":"會有完整的評估，就會有相對應的作為，可能會更新出一個新的版本，逐步修正，對不對？是。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:44:58.903000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:45:14.264000+08:00","text":"所以我就問你，很簡單，關於現階段的校事會議，如果我們要求你不備查、退回，請你再修正以後提出新的版本，可以嗎？","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:45:14.264000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:45:17.846000+08:00","text":"如果辦法是好的，似乎……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:45:18.326000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:45:27.171000+08:00","text":"辦法是你想，不是我想啊，所以我現在退回去，請你更新，請你再逐步地修正，再補一個新的，這樣可以嗎？","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:45:27.171000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:45:40.075000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，如果從現在的數據來看，我想委員過去是非常充滿智慧的，因為我們現在都往好的方向走，能不能讓它繼續走？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:45:41.256000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:45:42.977000+08:00","text":"就是說，它有沒有一定要更改？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:45:43.318000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:46:09.683000+08:00","text":"因為以我們現在的分流制度跟匿名的部分，所有包含個資的保密，等於說沒有做到保密也課以刑責等等所有的東西，這個部分我保留彈性，但是我也要跟委員報告，我們1月修正的目前看起來是往好的，讓學校裡的親師更能夠彼此有互信……","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:46:09.803000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:46:26.367000+08:00","text":"如果真的是好的，禮拜一的公聽會我就沒有看到教師一片叫好，當然有家長團體說不能夠廢除，但是我看到會議形成的共識是可以更新、可以逐步修正調整。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:46:26.747000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:46:28.448000+08:00","text":"所以我剛才跟委員報告的是我們保留彈性。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:46:28.989000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:46:48.821000+08:00","text":"所以你說1月，但我上禮拜才辦公聽會，大家還是認為有更新的必要，包括還是有許多團體指出匿名檢舉的部分並沒有完全消失，包括還有委員指出，網路有同學在教要搞老師直接就用相關的校事會議，1999打到爆。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:46:49.821000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:46:53.004000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，難不成我們要回到可以允許匿名投訴嗎？","quality":0.318},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:46:53.004000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:46:53.645000+08:00","text":"肯定不是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:46:54.325000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:46:55.726000+08:00","text":"有人說用網路的部分……","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:46:55.886000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:46:58.469000+08:00","text":"他願意……我們願意接受匿名投訴嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:46:58.469000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:47:04.674000+08:00","text":"所以我們還是希望匿名投訴這個部分你還是要徹查，到底有沒有這些機制完全嚇阻匿名投訴？","quality":0.744},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:47:04.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:47:23.432000+08:00","text":"我們都會做double confirm，我們都會去做確認，所以在這個部分我還是跟委員報告，委員過去的支持、大家的支持，我們心存感激，讓我們7月有一個更清楚的整個數據分析，我們再來做政策上的調整。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:47:23.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:48:11.390000+08:00","text":"最後我要講，今天我們提出了幼兒教育照顧法來做逐條討論，我很難過，我們來逐條討論的時候才看到教育部願意去對症下藥，剛剛有人提到，不管是合格教師跟教保員的薪資問題，許多團體、幼教團體跟我們講，他們以前為了久任獎金、為了教師薪資不斷地發聲，都完全沒有被重視到；現階段我們又看到了師生比的問題，有時候還是有很多沒有跟進，師生比我們一直有最高的標準，也逐步在進行，但是真的有做到嗎？","quality":0.753},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:48:11.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:48:13.092000+08:00","text":"很多的幼教團體對現場狀況也很擔憂。","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:48:14.894000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:48:25.801000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們公立跟非營利這個部分今年開始已經有99%從1比15降低到1比12。","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:48:26.021000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:48:28.463000+08:00","text":"所以是公托跟非營利。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:48:28.463000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T11:48:29.964000+08:00","text":"是，而準公共這個部分也是在115（今）年9月就會來全面實施……對嘛！","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:48:29.964000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:48:46.214000+08:00","text":"那準公共跟所謂的私立，這就是我們一直在講的，教育補助逐步平權，抽到公托、公幼就是中大樂透，沒有抽到的人就是覺得：哇，為什麼我這麼衰？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:48:47.115000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:48:53.779000+08:00","text":"所以我們才會說要所謂的公托公幼免費，私托私幼現在在討論要不要增大補助嘛。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:48:54.979000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:48:57.601000+08:00","text":"我當然知道你的師生比在公托公幼已經完成了。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:48:58.221000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:49:12.097000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，委員在臺中市，臺中市目前平價未達八成、公共化未達四成，全國現在以臺中市來看，事實上是相對多的，會後我可以把這一個資料給委員。","quality":0.689},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:49:12.097000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T11:49:13.097000+08:00","text":"我要拜託委員，我們中央跟臺中一起來努力……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:49:12.097000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:49:18.664000+08:00","text":"我歡迎你提供相對應的資料，但我還是要告訴你，我們現在教育現場提到的困境。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:49:19.225000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:49:22.849000+08:00","text":"讓更多的年輕家庭能夠獲得到一個更好的照顧。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:49:23.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:50:03.424000+08:00","text":"你的資料我可以參考一下，但我還是要再講，現在我們面臨到的就是家庭壓力太大，現在我們喊出了每個月五千，賴清德總統也跟進，從原本說國民黨有可能掏空財庫，到現在賴清德總統跟進以後，我們在喊一些其他政策的時候歡迎大家來質疑、來檢討，但是我們希望大家好好坐下來討論，把事情能夠凝聚共識來幫助這些家庭，不要每一次在喊這些政策的時候，就說我們的政策有疑慮，然後換成賴清德總統跟進的時候就可以，這是什標準？","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:50:03.804000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:50:04.204000+08:00","text":"我不懂啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:50:05.785000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:50:08.606000+08:00","text":"不要賴總統說的都是金玉良言，我們講的都是……","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:50:08.606000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T11:50:09.606000+08:00","text":"我剛才跟委員報告的完全是希望透過中央跟地方一起合作。","quality":0.04},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:50:09.327000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:50:11.448000+08:00","text":"把我們的話當成是洪水猛獸啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-18T11:50:17.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:50:37.030000+08:00","text":"這真的要特別拜託你，關於剛剛提到的調和委員會、校事會議、身心調適假，這些狀況都是教學現場第一線大家一直在反映的，希望你提出解套來說服我們可以不用做，因為你已經在做了，就是因為看到你沒有做好，所以今天我們才負責任的提出方法由我們來做。","quality":0.869},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T11:50:37.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:50:40.373000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員提醒，我們會持續來精進、來努力。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T11:50:40.493000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T11:50:40.553000+08:00","text":"謝謝羅委員，請部長回座。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"主席（羅委員廷瑋）","start":"2026-06-18T11:50:41.053000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T11:50:51.053000+08:00","text":"下一位詢答的委員是吳沛憶委員，在黃秀芳委員詢答完畢以後讓大家中午安排休息。","quality":0.029},{"speaker":"主席（羅委員廷瑋）","start":"2026-06-18T11:50:51.353000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T11:50:53.924429+08:00","text":"下一位請吳沛憶委員。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":526,"blocks":[["羅委員廷瑋：（11時31分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["主席：有請部長。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好。"],["羅委員廷瑋：部長，我簡單扼要地跟你探討幾個問題，因為前面委員也都常常在跟你探討這些問題，我們要找出問題的解決辦法。現在針對這一份「116年度學校青年服勤動員準備分類計畫」，網路上刊登出來以後家長當然譁然。之前有特別提到，您有說會全面停用，我認為這次又把它移花接木地再次補上，我覺得這個部分就是在騙臺灣的家長，我覺得你們現階段應該要說清楚、講明白。","當然之前國防部也說，如果有疑慮，甚至沒有什麼實際作為的話，這個部分就應該直接予以廢除，可惜最後沒有看到廢除，反而出現了「116年度學校青年服勤動員準備分類計畫」。教育部現在的說法就只是防災啦！但作為一個教育部部長，希望這些文字用語能夠更加地清楚明瞭，不要讓人民活在恐慌當中，所以請你誠實地回答全臺灣的百萬家長。","我認為有幾個問題：第一，為什麼防災計畫要直接綁定「國軍一級加強戒備」？我們往後看，它也有提到二級的部分，當然我也會講到你剛才所說的文字用語。為什麼國軍一級戒備學校就要開設青年報到站，進行編組、分配勤務？這不是動員的話，什麼才是動員？第三，當時你跟我們說會停用，現在又有「116年度學校青年服勤動員準備分類計畫」了？當然剛剛你們有說，這裡面有提到一句關鍵的用語，你們說軍警勤務排除在外。","以上這些都是你們寫的，也是你們的用字遣詞，我都幫你們補上了，但我認為這都不夠白話文，你為什麼不直接寫得更清楚？相關戰時所因應到的這些用語就直接寫上去，都全面排除，不要都寫得這麼不清不楚嘛！我們看到這邊有一級加強戒備、二級加強戒備、青年報到站、開設演練、鼓勵青年各項演練，當然也有寫到救濟的部分、後勤的部分，但是我想這些東西有提到「動員」的都會讓家長非常地擔憂，所以我有具體的問題要請你回答。有關「116年度學校青年服勤動員準備分類計畫」可不可以寫得更加直白？可不可以寫得讓家長更加安心？可以嗎？"],["許副司長嘉倩：跟立委報告，不好意思，因為這個青年服勤計畫其實是依照全動法的要求，所以我們才要訂定這樣的計畫，因此相關的用語我們也是依照國安會還有國防部全動署那邊的要求……"],["羅委員廷瑋：我知道，你們有稍微解釋了，這是依據法令而來的嘛，所以剛剛也有委員講全動法也有寫嘛，包括要支援所謂的戰情任務的時候，這個部分會讓大家有所疑慮嘛！"],["許副司長嘉倩：對。"],["羅委員廷瑋：你說你的用語都是因為國安單位給你的建議……"],["許副司長嘉倩：對，所以我們會……"],["羅委員廷瑋：那是不是可以有一個解釋版、白話文版？"],["許副司長嘉倩：我們之後會再跟相關的單位反映，未來的計畫內容是不是可以讓我們再寫得更清楚、明確一點，讓家長可以安心？"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以要再次請教部長，確定一下是不是會全面排除任何戰情業務，不會讓孩子上戰場，是嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：本來全動法的精神對未滿18歲的高中生就是抱持這樣的目的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我知道，但我現在就問你，請你直接回答我。"],["鄭部長英耀：所以是沒有問題的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：可以喔！"],["鄭部長英耀：事實上就是沒有涉及到軍隊跟警察的勤務。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我想家長會擔憂，所以我們一定要問清楚、講明白……"],["鄭部長英耀：我想教育部在這個部分也做了很多的說明，也感謝委員再次幫我們澄清。"],["羅委員廷瑋：第二個，看到後面的這個議題，有關幼兒教育及照顧法，本週一下午也召開過這樣的公聽會，現場也有許多團體來發表意見，有幾個問題想跟您請教一下，我們先看PPT。有關補助的差距跟教育選擇的受限，以及不只是為了校事會議，我們現在看到教保現場也升高了許多的誤解與壓力，這個問題你有掌握到嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：我們一直在朝好的方向前進，譬如剛才我跟另外一位委員報告的，我們事實上會延長課後的照顧，包含寒、暑假也納進來，包含減少學生人數（師生比）等等許多配套措施。"],["羅委員廷瑋：部長有做，給你一個讚，但做得不多啊！"],["鄭部長英耀：不會不多啦！真的是全面在做，而且這還是跟地方政府……"],["羅委員廷瑋：可能每個人的標準不同啦！"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：對你來說，你覺得很多……"],["鄭部長英耀：我從來沒有滿意過。"],["羅委員廷瑋：對第一現場的所有老師還有我們民意代表來說，我覺得不多啦！好不好？各自解讀沒有關係，但是我要講的是，現場的狀況就是如此。剛剛也有委員提到，我們就講了，因為補助差距會不會讓公幼沒有人讀？你知道為什麼現階段很多公幼的許多家長不選擇嗎？你知道嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：當然就是剛才……我想跟私幼……它課後的延長……"],["羅委員廷瑋：就是課後延長的問題嘛！當然你們有提出相關的計畫，希望鼓勵他們把這個部分補上嘛！但是實際的狀況，我上個禮拜接受媒體採訪，私底下跟媒體聊天時也關心對方，他說他抽到公托了，我恭喜他，但他說他可能要放棄了。很簡單嘛！因為就是沒採用課後延托的部分，所以他沒有辦法只好到私托去。現在就是有補助的差距造成了教育選擇受限，所以我們有幾個實際的問題希望你能具體地回應，請看下一張PPT。","教育的補助要逐步地平權，這部分就是今天我們要來探討的，國民黨也很負責任地希望建立整個0到6歲完整的家庭支持計畫政策。在你現在的報告裡也寫到初步方向是認同，但是希望後續有更多討論的機會以形成共識，對吧？部長？"],["鄭部長英耀：如果不違反財政紀律，因為中央跟地方確實是要合作的，所以這個部分我們還是要先跟地方討論。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以我現在要先問你中間的這一題「成立教保的調和委員會」，它就像是調解單位，車禍進法院前要先調解，但是教保的調和需要專業的教保人士成立這樣的組織。成立這樣的教保調和委員會，你可以認同嗎？可不可以直接回答我，可不可以認同？"],["鄭部長英耀：我請署長……"],["彭署長富源：謝謝召委提的這個建議，目前關於師生調和案件的機制，我們看到有一個縣市──高雄市在研擬這樣一個配套，我們會了解……"],["羅委員廷瑋：他們也說校事會議前有一個調和機制……"],["彭署長富源：委員所提的……"],["羅委員廷瑋：教保的部分是不是也要納入？"],["彭署長富源：跟委員報告，剛剛您提的是一個構想，但現在都沒有，在中央的部分都沒有。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以我們都希望你們提啊！"],["彭署長富源：所以委員所提這個……"],["羅委員廷瑋：不要讓各縣市自己做嘛！中央為主，然後給予這樣子的一個指引，鼓勵地方都要做，這有沒有機會研擬一下？"],["彭署長富源：非常感謝召委直接就很明示的提了這一個，我們會列入跟相關團體或地方政府討論的議題。"],["羅委員廷瑋：部長，您覺得呢？"],["鄭部長英耀：我想署長剛才也回答地很清楚，我們會跟地方……"],["羅委員廷瑋：可以認同嗎？我想這個調和的機制很重要啦。"],["鄭部長英耀：如果地方覺得他們願意來做這樣的……我想我們會尊重。"],["羅委員廷瑋：的確在公聽會的時候也有很多人講到，不只是補助很重要，更重要的是，他聽到很多家長說：「我不敢生，因為我怕生出來，我的孩子會被虐待」，這顯現出什麼？第一，我們許多的媒體在個案上放大，讓許多的年輕家庭有這樣子的認為，普遍臺灣的幼教好像都會虐待兒童，我覺得這是不對的。第二，親師之間的一些信任關係衝突開始急遽惡化，所以不只是我們現在的校事會議要檢討，我認為幼稚園或者托嬰中心這些狀況也一樣。所以還是回過頭來問你，我們現在討論到校事會議，我也為了這個開公聽會，你也看到公聽會的內容，甚至有老師非常非常的生氣難過，他提到，如果他告訴孩子「你出了這個門，門要關起來，要不然冷氣會流失」，三次，他給大家三次機會，大家都還是一樣不關門，冷氣流失、浪費電源，好，因為這樣子他停了冷氣，結果被家長投訴；請學生站立反省也被投訴，多關心他被投訴、沒關心他被投訴……"],["鄭部長英耀：有關老師的一些管教權，適當的班級經營我們應該要支持老師專業的判斷。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以支持老師，我現在就問……"],["鄭部長英耀：剛才委員提到教保條文是因為我們的幼兒園通常規模都比較小，不像我們公幼或者學校裡，學校可能有幾十班，幼兒園通常都是幾班，對於它的老師及編制，所以這個部分我們還是跟地方政府一邊看……"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以鼓勵地方政府像調解委員會嘛！他們法制局有調解委員會，也有一個所謂的教保調和委員會，由專門的教保專業人員來處理這個調和的問題。"],["鄭部長英耀：所以我同意跟地方來談，以現在的中小學規模確實有落差，我們來跟地方……"],["羅委員廷瑋：我知道，所以中央要鼓勵縣市政府去辦理這樣子的業務嘛！"],["鄭部長英耀：是，我想以幼保這一個部分，確實由地方政府來成立可能相對適當。"],["羅委員廷瑋：但你要給予指引啊。"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：對不對？你中央主管機關要給予指引。再來，這也關係到我們現在的校事會議嘛！會前會要不要討論、要不要調解？這都是有關於這部分連動性的。"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以我們現在看到對於現在老師的權利，有委員提出了離線權，柯志恩委員也很關心，我們一直不斷在講、在倡議，包括現在在講所謂的調和。還有一部分我要直接問你啦，剛剛我就直接提到了，我們公聽會有這麼多老師講這麼多的個案，甚至上次有一個老師被戳屁股，然後下意識不小心推開孩子，孩子受傷，他在校事會議相關的評比就成立了，這個案件你知道嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：我知道。"],["羅委員廷瑋：當然你會跟我講這是舊案，現在都有更新了，你也會跟我說，你們因為更新了校事會議，所以大幅度地減少，這個我都知道。我現在就問你一句話，有關校事會議，你說6月要開始收集這些數據，你大概7月幾號要更新校事會議？"],["鄭部長英耀：不一定是更新，我們會檢討，但7月底之前應該會有一個比較完整的輪廓，因為我們是今年1月才有新的辦法，也感謝委員的支持。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，所以更完整的輪廓我稱之為更新不為過吧？逐步地檢討、讓它變得更好，這不是更新嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：我尊重委員的一個用詞。"],["羅委員廷瑋：難道是更舊？還是惡化？"],["鄭部長英耀：我尊重委員的說法。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以如果你7月底前會有一個更新的版本，我7月底前將你的這一個……"],["鄭部長英耀：應該是說新的辦法我們會有一個完整的評估，也會讓委員知道。"],["羅委員廷瑋：會有完整的評估，就會有相對應的作為，可能會更新出一個新的版本，逐步修正，對不對？"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以我就問你，很簡單，關於現階段的校事會議，如果我們要求你不備查、退回，請你再修正以後提出新的版本，可以嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：如果辦法是好的，似乎……"],["羅委員廷瑋：辦法是你想，不是我想啊，所以我現在退回去，請你更新，請你再逐步地修正，再補一個新的，這樣可以嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：我跟委員報告，如果從現在的數據來看，我想委員過去是非常充滿智慧的，因為我們現在都往好的方向走，能不能讓它繼續走？就是說，它有沒有一定要更改？因為以我們現在的分流制度跟匿名的部分，所有包含個資的保密，等於說沒有做到保密也課以刑責等等所有的東西，這個部分我保留彈性，但是我也要跟委員報告，我們1月修正的目前看起來是往好的，讓學校裡的親師更能夠彼此有互信……"],["羅委員廷瑋：如果真的是好的，禮拜一的公聽會我就沒有看到教師一片叫好，當然有家長團體說不能夠廢除，但是我看到會議形成的共識是可以更新、可以逐步修正調整。"],["鄭部長英耀：所以我剛才跟委員報告的是我們保留彈性。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以你說1月，但我上禮拜才辦公聽會，大家還是認為有更新的必要，包括還是有許多團體指出匿名檢舉的部分並沒有完全消失，包括還有委員指出，網路有同學在教要搞老師直接就用相關的校事會議，1999打到爆。"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，難不成我們要回到可以允許匿名投訴嗎？肯定不是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：有人說用網路的部分……"],["鄭部長英耀：他願意……我們願意接受匿名投訴嗎？"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以我們還是希望匿名投訴這個部分你還是要徹查，到底有沒有這些機制完全嚇阻匿名投訴？"],["鄭部長英耀：我們都會做double confirm，我們都會去做確認，所以在這個部分我還是跟委員報告，委員過去的支持、大家的支持，我們心存感激，讓我們7月有一個更清楚的整個數據分析，我們再來做政策上的調整。"],["羅委員廷瑋：最後我要講，今天我們提出了幼兒教育照顧法來做逐條討論，我很難過，我們來逐條討論的時候才看到教育部願意去對症下藥，剛剛有人提到，不管是合格教師跟教保員的薪資問題，許多團體、幼教團體跟我們講，他們以前為了久任獎金、為了教師薪資不斷地發聲，都完全沒有被重視到；現階段我們又看到了師生比的問題，有時候還是有很多沒有跟進，師生比我們一直有最高的標準，也逐步在進行，但是真的有做到嗎？很多的幼教團體對現場狀況也很擔憂。"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，我們公立跟非營利這個部分今年開始已經有99%從1比15降低到1比12。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以是公托跟非營利。"],["鄭部長英耀：是，而準公共這個部分也是在115（今）年9月就會來全面實施……"],["羅委員廷瑋：對嘛！那準公共跟所謂的私立，這就是我們一直在講的，教育補助逐步平權，抽到公托、公幼就是中大樂透，沒有抽到的人就是覺得：哇，為什麼我這麼衰？所以我們才會說要所謂的公托公幼免費，私托私幼現在在討論要不要增大補助嘛。我當然知道你的師生比在公托公幼已經完成了。"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，委員在臺中市，臺中市目前平價未達八成、公共化未達四成，全國現在以臺中市來看，事實上是相對多的，會後我可以把這一個資料給委員。我要拜託委員，我們中央跟臺中一起來努力……"],["羅委員廷瑋：我歡迎你提供相對應的資料，但我還是要告訴你，我們現在教育現場提到的困境。"],["鄭部長英耀：讓更多的年輕家庭能夠獲得到一個更好的照顧。"],["羅委員廷瑋：你的資料我可以參考一下，但我還是要再講，現在我們面臨到的就是家庭壓力太大，現在我們喊出了每個月五千，賴清德總統也跟進，從原本說國民黨有可能掏空財庫，到現在賴清德總統跟進以後，我們在喊一些其他政策的時候歡迎大家來質疑、來檢討，但是我們希望大家好好坐下來討論，把事情能夠凝聚共識來幫助這些家庭，不要每一次在喊這些政策的時候，就說我們的政策有疑慮，然後換成賴清德總統跟進的時候就可以，這是什標準？我不懂啊！不要賴總統說的都是金玉良言，我們講的都是……"],["鄭部長英耀：我剛才跟委員報告的完全是希望透過中央跟地方一起合作。"],["羅委員廷瑋：把我們的話當成是洪水猛獸啊！這真的要特別拜託你，關於剛剛提到的調和委員會、校事會議、身心調適假，這些狀況都是教學現場第一線大家一直在反映的，希望你提出解套來說服我們可以不用做，因為你已經在做了，就是因為看到你沒有做好，所以今天我們才負責任的提出方法由我們來做。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員提醒，我們會持續來精進、來努力。"],["主席：謝謝羅委員，請部長回座。"],["主席（羅委員廷瑋）：下一位詢答的委員是吳沛憶委員，在黃秀芳委員詢答完畢以後讓大家中午安排休息。","下一位請吳沛憶委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":176,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-5-22,26-1","speakers":["羅廷瑋","張嘉郡","王育敏","蔡春綢","陳培瑜","林月琴","柯志恩","羅智強","葛如鈞","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","林宜瑾","吳沛憶","劉建國","黃秀芳","葉元之","吳思瑤","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王正旭","徐欣瑩","林淑芬","傅崐萁","林倩綺","蘇清泉","陳菁徽","盧縣一"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2026-06-18"],"gazette_id":"1155302","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155302_00002","1155302_00003","1155302_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查(一)委員蘇清泉等20人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員徐\n欣瑩等20人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員林月琴等16人擬具「幼\n兒教育及照顧法第三十條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員王育敏等21人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法部\n分條文修正草案」案、(五)委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第十一條、第十二條及第\n三十二條之一條文修正草案」案、(六)委員徐巧芯等21人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修\n正草案」案、(七)委員葉元之等17人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案、(八)委\n員黃仁等19 人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案、 ( 九) 委員張嘉郡等19 人擬具\n「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案、(十)委員羅廷瑋等22人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法\n第七條條文修正草案」案、( 十一) 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草\n案」案、(十二)委員羅智強等17人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案、(十三)委\n員鄭正鈐等17人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案、(十四)委員林倩綺等23人擬\n具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員廖先翔等16人擬具「幼兒教育及照\n顧法第七條條文修正草案」案、(十六)委員王育敏等23人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修\n正草案」案、(十七)委員王育敏等21人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第四十三條及第五十二條條文修\n正草案」案、(十八)委員廖偉翔等23人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案、 (十\n九)委員葛如鈞等18人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案、(二十)委員李彥秀等\n19人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1155302_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}