{"error":false,"id":["170075"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170075,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170075","日期":"2026-06-18","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-5-22,26-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[22,26],"委員會代碼:str":["教育及文化委員會","社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-06-18T11:51:29+08:00","結束時間":"2026-06-18T12:03:36+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:07","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ac5d42f4fd98837a7ff7d7af69979751552618e67150a9fcdc5716944ba7948a621313771590f4455ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳沛憶","委員發言時間":"11:51:29 - 12:03:36","會議時間":"2026-06-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查\n(一)委員蘇清泉等20人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)委員徐欣瑩等20人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)委員林月琴等16人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第三十條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)委員王育敏等21人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(五)委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第十一條、第十二條及第三十二條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(六)委員徐巧芯等21人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)委員葉元之等17人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)委員黃仁等19人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)委員張嘉郡等19人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)委員羅廷瑋等22人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)委員羅智強等17人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n(十三)委員鄭正鈐等17人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n(十四)委員林倩綺等23人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n(十五)委員廖先翔等16人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n(十六)委員王育敏等23人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n(十七)委員王育敏等21人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第四十三條及第五十二條條文修正      草案」案。\n(十八)委員廖偉翔等23人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n(十九)委員葛如鈞等18人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n(二十)委員李彥秀等19人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案。\n【進行詢答及逐條審查】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.38096875,"end":2.0222187500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.16346875,"end":25.461593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.01846875,"end":26.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.74721875,"end":109.34721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":110.57909375000001,"end":169.67534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":169.84409375,"end":173.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":173.59034375000002,"end":174.34971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":174.40034375000002,"end":175.69971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.86846875,"end":175.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.37034375000002,"end":180.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.35284375,"end":181.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":181.36971875,"end":207.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.31909375,"end":208.58909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.36534375000002,"end":209.71971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.39471875,"end":214.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.57971875,"end":216.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":214.79909375000003,"end":215.33909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":215.37284375000002,"end":219.10221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.10221875000002,"end":226.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":227.37096875,"end":240.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":241.96784375000001,"end":242.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.41409375,"end":256.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.48971875,"end":251.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.40096875,"end":251.45159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.14346875,"end":252.39659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.46409375000002,"end":252.85221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":252.85221875000002,"end":253.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.47659375,"end":253.56096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.75034375,"end":286.82159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":258.94409375000004,"end":259.33221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":259.43346875000003,"end":259.68659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":259.75409375000004,"end":259.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.09159375,"end":300.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":301.23284375000003,"end":310.80096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":311.15534375000004,"end":312.48846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":313.77096875,"end":320.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.23409375,"end":320.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.02721875000003,"end":338.02034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.08846875,"end":334.42596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.29034375000003,"end":340.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":340.97346875,"end":341.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.02409375,"end":341.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":341.41221875,"end":341.42909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.27284375000005,"end":359.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.41784375000003,"end":362.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.07971875000004,"end":364.05846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.24409375000005,"end":372.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.18784375,"end":373.91346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":374.13284375,"end":374.79096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.06096875000003,"end":377.13659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.32221875000005,"end":381.57471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.67596875000004,"end":382.35096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.43534375,"end":384.03846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.12284375,"end":385.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.08034375,"end":388.84784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.93221875,"end":390.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.60284375000003,"end":391.76721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":392.08784375000005,"end":399.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.88471875000005,"end":396.37409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.58034375000005,"end":399.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":399.95159375000003,"end":401.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":401.16659375,"end":402.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":402.97221875,"end":407.12346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":407.27534375000005,"end":434.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":434.57909375,"end":440.04659375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":440.45159375000003,"end":449.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":449.51346875,"end":452.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":453.36096875000004,"end":457.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","star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謝謝主席因為今天連席會議質詢委員比較多那不講生理不是我今天的問題也比較細節所以我請國教署署長有請署長"},{"start":34.023,"end":62.984,"text":"我們今天是討論的是要教法的這個詢答那麼其實重點當然是說我們現在政府要怎麼幫助家長怎麼樣去支持家長減輕照顧的負擔這個我們都很贊成所以我覺得真正討論的重點核心在於說我們怎麼把政府的資源他確實的是挹注給家長那麼過去呢也是在立法院不分黨派大家支持之下現在呢我們的政府"},{"start":63.444,"end":81.772,"text":"投入很多的資源在幼教包括我們有公幼我們有公辦民營的非營利幼兒園我們也有準公共化幼兒園也就是我們邀請私幼來加入準公幼近幾年我們也大力推動的有職場互助的教保中心這些我們都投入資源所以我也非常的支持"},{"start":82.512,"end":105.55,"text":"那麼過去呢 這個準公幼就是我們邀請私幼加入我們這一個公共化的這個體系呢我們台北市的成績其實做得相當好這個過去 尤其柯文哲市長任內因為當時我也在市議會我們議會都支持柯市長卸任之前 他做了一個報告就是在他任內呢 這八年台北市我們的公共化幼兒園尤其是這個準公幼整個加起來 我們從四成來到了七成"},{"start":110.649,"end":125.819,"text":"成績很好然後呢私幼也有百家的私幼加入我們準公幼這個成績我真的是要給柯市長肯定那麼後來的蔣市長也繼續延續這樣子的政策那今天我看到很多委員提案就是在問說奇怪政府竟然要補助這個錢為什麼不直接發給家長錢為什麼不直接發給家長然後呢為什麼要搞一個準公幼這麼複雜"},{"start":136.045,"end":151.664,"text":"確實我在當議員的時候因為當時這個制度剛上路很多像是員所或家長搞不太清楚規定有很多的相關的疑問來詢問確實是當時大家有這樣子的擔憂但我就看了一下其實我們從過去所有的幼教政策"},{"start":152.705,"end":175.641,"text":"經歷了不同年代不同階段因為有些問題我們有檢討所以有一些演變首先我要問的是說我們在現在的少子化對策還有整公共化幼兒園之前我們過去從2000年開始是不是我們曾經有發放幼兒教育券然後甚至還有五歲免學費等等這些幼教政策這個署長你有沒有印象是的 那時候我在地方擔任局長所以委員講的是"},{"start":181.434,"end":207.732,"text":"是 2000年的時候當時是發幼兒教育卷就是針對是五歲然後念私幼的我們政府每年補助一萬元的這個教育卷那2010年當時發布一個五歲幼兒免學費就是說如果你是念公立幼兒園免費那你如果念私幼的話政府就補助你一學期一萬五千元這些政策當時是透過修法立法還是用我們這個行政命令就是頒布政策的方式來實行署長你知道嗎對是的"},{"start":212.236,"end":239.875,"text":"當時對委員講的大概都有爬出過你是說當時在做這些幼教補助政策的時候我們有修法嗎沒有用計畫的方式來按照時事的情形發展按照家長的需求用比較計畫的方式很快的因應對所以我覺得第一個要理性是說我們幼教的補助政策其實不用修法這個行政命令就可以來處理了再來第二個是這過去當然立法院我們職責是監督也有過討論我們來看一下當時立法院的討論"},{"start":242.263,"end":242.785,"text":"這個影片放一下"},{"start":248.439,"end":263.471,"text":"其實我們這種所謂的現金補助其實我們這種所謂的現金補助其實我們這種所謂的現金補助其實我們這種所謂的現金補助其實我們這種所謂的現金補助其實我們這種所謂的現金補助其實我們這種所謂的現金補助其實我們這種所謂的現金補助其實我們這種所謂的現金補助其實我們這種所謂的現金補助其實我們這種所謂的現金補助其實我們這種所謂的現金補助其實我們這種所謂的現金補助其實我們這種所謂的現金補助其實我們這種所謂的現金補助其實我們這種所謂的現金補助其實我們這種所謂的現金補助其實我們這種所謂的現金補助其實我們這種所謂的現"},{"start":278.203,"end":297.587,"text":"私幼公共化其實都一直在做所謂的現金補助但是很明顯成效不好而且衍生很多問題包括很多這些現金補助事實上就會帶動很多私立幼兒園你發多少漲多少所以你說要實際達到減緩家長的負擔事實上並沒有"},{"start":301.735,"end":310.324,"text":"這是我們現在蔣灣市長當時的蔣灣委員在立法院同樣就是也是教文跟衛華聯席在委員會的這個質詢的記錄這個署長我想請教當時蔣委員說政府發多少結果私有就漲多少究竟當時有沒有這樣子的現象有發生這樣的問題過嗎"},{"start":321.052,"end":341.21,"text":"在那個幼教卷的時候是的確有這個疑慮因此委員可以看到相關的法制上有設計當政府有補助的時候是要做審查的收費審查的是有這樣的一個有疑慮所以法制上有這樣的一個設計那他後來我們為什麼設計這個准公幼的制度呢"},{"start":342.501,"end":362.322,"text":"這樣的一個制度就是直接由政府來協助讓我們去救價格或是相關的六項合作機制找到了適當的源之後家長這一邊只要去控制他繳多少就好原來的一些怕帳多少"},{"start":363.443,"end":391.668,"text":"沒有用在那個幼兒教育上的這件事可以得到控制所以我們去處理到我們補助的部分不會變成有變相的疑慮因此準公共的這樣的一個機制去克服以前的一些困難讓相關的補助比較可以直接真正的協助家長減輕負擔只讓家長負擔多少就好"},{"start":392.709,"end":412.227,"text":"對 這個准公幼現在家長就是每月付三千嘛 第二天兩千但是我覺得很重要的是第一個 我們要控管他的收費有設一個天花板合作的機制上有控管第二點很重要的是我們要求要保障教保員的薪資因為教保員的福利要好這個環境好 我們教學品質才會好這我覺得很重要"},{"start":413.408,"end":430.654,"text":"當時的討論我不在立法院啦但是今天如果說有委員要提案修法的話我覺得過去經驗一定要參考因為我們教育政策本來就是這樣子都是滾動式檢討的齁那麼在馬英九總統任內的教育部呢這是2015年的時候當時在立法院第八屆第六會期的會議同樣是討論這個我們今天討論這個幼照法齁當時你們教育部怎麼說你們教育部說齁就之前發這個教育卷啊通通都發到業者口袋去了"},{"start":440.498,"end":461.778,"text":"他說在民國89年,也就是2000年的時候,樂教卷發多少,學費就漲了多少也受到了監察院各單位的質疑那署長我要跟你反映一下,因為我請你們教育部提供我資料這個20,這等於是20年前,20年前監察院有給你們這個調查,有給你們提出來過這個建議,那你們的報告呢"},{"start":462.864,"end":487.835,"text":"你們當時監察院提給你們建議的資料你們有沒有留存你們有沒有看過監察院只要給我們我們一定都會很認真的回應那會後下班前給委員好這個我希望你們要去把它找出來不管是當時監察院的意見或者是例如我們講市長當時的蔣委員過去立法院曾經有指出來的問題當我們如果要新政策上路之前過去的我們一定要來檢討"},{"start":489.696,"end":512.29,"text":"就是說到底有沒有私有大幅漲價的事情發生是這個比例業者比例漲價是幾成漲價的費用幅度來到多少各個縣市的狀況又是如何呢如果我說我們今天還要再去發錢而且錢是直接發到家長手中而不是像剛剛這個準公用這樣整體制度的設計的話一定要把之前有發生這樣子的亂象"},{"start":513.397,"end":525.026,"text":"這些數據我們要很明確我覺得我們才去討論新的政策這比較是負責任的態度否則假設我們新的政策上路結果造成家長反而他負擔沒有減輕結果學費都漲價那我不敢負責啊我們誰敢負責對不對因為我們真正的用意是說政府的資源要來幫助家長嘛"},{"start":532.031,"end":558.053,"text":"那所以呢就是我也要拜託這個教育部因為准公化制度上路之後因為真的複雜也受到很多的挑戰跟質疑有基地我請教育部要繼續去進行檢討第一個是說我們准公的要點要滾動檢討那很多民間都有反映相關的心聲例如說這個因應物價我們收費的調整機制可不可以更有彈性第三個呢在准公架構之下我們補助可不可以再提高也就是說現在家長每月要付三千"},{"start":558.433,"end":581.081,"text":"能不能讓家長負擔再減輕我覺得這都可以來討論所以我要拜託教育部、國教署還有跟民間還有地方政府我們再就這個制度過去實行的狀況再多加來討論好謝謝謝謝我的意見在下一期的時候我們都會把它納入最後因為剛剛前面耿如君委員在質詢的時候有提到台中市的校車性侵案"},{"start":582.472,"end":608.962,"text":"我贊同教育部這件事情你們真的要去審慎的來去面對跟應對這是我覺得非常的嚴重欸受害者9人年紀最小的15歲其中5個人感染到了然後呢我覺得最誇張的是這個案件竟然是中央的疾管署在疫調的時候才發現的台中市政府的教育局過去完全都沒有察覺嗎沒有通報過嗎"},{"start":612.697,"end":620.485,"text":"然後最早的案件是在2022年欸2022年到現在這四年是持續發生的嗎教育部你慢慢去了解啊台中市政府教育局有沒有給你們報告有沒有通報過我覺得太離譜在我看來這個事情是我們的校安的把關層層都失靈了"},{"start":634.107,"end":660.069,"text":"委員今天提這個我們分兩點我用10秒鐘跟您報告第一現在我們尊重疫調他現在要保護受害者所以他現在是秘密中那我們也很希望跟衛福部合作還是要給我們我們才能知道身份來做很多的防範的處理的設計那委員也追這可能海中市交易局跟您報告了"},{"start":662.05,"end":675.143,"text":"22的時候是不是就知道這個我們在疫調的這個如果他允許的資料我們會詳查那我希望衛福部如果資料給我們之後的七天內我們把這所有事情跟委員會做報告"},{"start":676.377,"end":704.008,"text":"按照我們現在法規有前科就不得擔任小車司機台中市政府有沒有負到資格查核的責任中間有沒有去做過稽查接送的這些管理有沒有再去執行第二個從2022年到現在中間有沒有過通報的記錄持續發生的案件都沒有察覺異狀我覺得太離譜了拜託教育部你們一定要去介入這個事情要審慎的來去面對台中之前教練性侵案"},{"start":704.728,"end":723.719,"text":"台中市政府連受害者多少人都搞不清楚狀況但是家長要如何放心好不好 拜託再一步請美嘉去解釋了解這個主題我們會一個一個詳查那只要這個具體的相關的身份給我們之後我們七天內一定回報委員會好 七天內請給委員會每一位委員報告謝謝委員謝謝委員吹噓 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}