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有請部長有請部長"},{"start":17.366,"end":40.488,"text":"委員好 部長辛苦了 今天您身體微恙 也就在委員會來面對各黨委員的監督那辛苦了那針對校事會議的問題 我想多數的委員我們跟教育部站在同樣一個戰線 同樣一個立場我們一定要保障孩子"},{"start":41.289,"end":55.665,"text":"我們更要支持老師所以校事會議要改革校事會議要優化我們要重建校園的信任關係而不是製造校園的對立"},{"start":56.866,"end":85.151,"text":"我想我們的立場是一樣的但是如果很輕率的就把已經在進入革新或者這幾年來一再的來優化的校式會議的制度一再的去汙名化去製造校園的師生之間或跟家長之間的對立我覺得這就不是改革的真諦我們要理性來看待我們繼續加油回到今天要修幼照法"},{"start":85.931,"end":112.168,"text":"非常遺憾要說立法院的違憲加碼有一樁立委大開支票就逼國庫買單做得到嗎?裁員在哪裡?下頁還是要附送一下只要總預算沒有完成審查我這個列表會一直的一直的來提醒到今天為止預算被延到292天"},{"start":114.429,"end":119.933,"text":"我們昨天終於完成了國科會跟故宮的審訊好事往前一步但是運動部跟文化部的預算還是沒審如果今天的議程能夠進入預算的審查就如昨天審查的經驗很可能今天就已經讓運動部的預算完成委員會的初審文化部的預算也能夠往前推進"},{"start":143.391,"end":171.757,"text":"所以我還是希望預算是民生有預算才能做事但是今天我們看到立委的提案立法委員不做立法院立法委員不審預算立法委員不顧民生但是爭相的來加碼提法案的修正立法院不做立法院立法院要搶當行政院我們都尊重"},{"start":172.757,"end":191.183,"text":"但是不能違憲但是不能違反預算法但是不能違反財政紀律法如果一再的用立委的片面修法增加國庫的支出罔顧了財政的紀律無視財政的現狀更何況的本末倒置啊"},{"start":192.116,"end":213.789,"text":"你通過了一堆加碼的法案 那預算不審 預算沒過錢在哪裡 下一頁我綜整一下這個會期在教科文的錢坑法案A加B加CA是什麼 就是上週我們審查的學代三法的加碼版本"},{"start":214.946,"end":239.22,"text":"如果照在野黨委員的提案因為執政黨委員的提案被丟包啦所以如果照在野黨委員上週的提案的版本學貸三法會增加國庫的支出是至少100億多則400億B ABC的B就也是教育委員會排審的營養午餐專法"},{"start":240.46,"end":262.61,"text":"當中的一個條文是要增加國庫中央的負擔就是現在22縣市全免的營養午餐費全部要由中央買單那這樣中央又要增加138億支出今天呢又來了今天排審的幼兒教育及教護法"},{"start":263.65,"end":267.593,"text":"增加的預算15個版本少則增加400億的國庫支出多則600億所以部長我替您算好了A加B加C光這個會期教科文委員會排審的這些立委片面增加國家支出無辜財政紀律的法案A加B加C至少每年教育部要增加638億到"},{"start":294.896,"end":300.447,"text":"1138億的支出我的資訊應當是正確的吧教育部有這麼多預算嗎"},{"start":302.642,"end":331.598,"text":"教育部裁員在哪裡呢而且我們更要說立委要責成政府擴大對人民的照顧可以但是我們來看看現行的制度是沒有做到還是沒有做好我們可以來檢視下一頁行政院正在做的0到6歲國家跟你一起養我們不管是對於公立非營利準公共幼兒園的這些減免的"},{"start":332.638,"end":341.049,"text":"費用有36.5萬幼兒受惠每年中央已經投入505億對不起是國庫投入505億中央440億地方65億另外"},{"start":347.938,"end":361.77,"text":"如果是獨私幼或是在家自己帶的20.5萬名的幼生國家每年投入180億第一胎每個月給5000第二胎給6000第三胎給7000而這180億裡頭同樣中央負擔157億地方也要負擔比較少23億"},{"start":371.164,"end":382.34,"text":"所以國家正在做這是行政權行政權橫著我們的財務狀況能做的我們一定做這是現在進行式您也是推手啊下一頁"},{"start":383.274,"end":405.844,"text":"而未來剛剛是國家正在做這是國家就要做將要做的從0到6歲擴大到0到18歲部長您有算過嗎我們0到18歲全照顧賴總統卓院長希望能夠在國家財政有能力的範圍之內成長今天每個月5000"},{"start":407.352,"end":419.378,"text":"以2500是直接發給孩童2500是國家替你提撥預存預計每個兒少從0到18歲國家至少投入154萬的照顧而這整體0到18歲國家全照顧的計畫每年國家會再投入1850億"},{"start":431.305,"end":449.985,"text":"錢當然可以花但是這是行政院去橫著他要面對不同的面向所有的國家財政把優先順序能力可負擔的部分羅列出來的範圍部長這個政策是不是就可以擴大照顧我們非常多的年輕世代"},{"start":451.241,"end":472.866,"text":"跟委員報告確實是這樣因為當時從0到6歲到後來這一個擴大到0到18歲他事實上是具有一個教育的一個發展性對每一個青少年他的整個發展未來他事實上是有一個教育的一個教育跟這個生涯發展上的一些我們看到的一些"},{"start":475.246,"end":503.679,"text":"是包含這一個六到十八歲如果我們看到每個月兩千五在未來的這一個TISA的搭配TISA的搭配裡面確保他最少的一個利息是不低於銀行的利息而且長期這個投資每一個青少年以後他讀大學或者高中畢業以後他要出國或者要創業等於第一桶金大概就有了"},{"start":504.079,"end":530.608,"text":"所以说刚刚回到前一页国家投入505亿加180亿还有下一页国家未来每年再投入1850亿加总起来国家对于0到18岁的国家全照顾大概每年就已经会有2500 600亿了这是行政权可以针对财政做得到的地方想方设法做"},{"start":531.428,"end":553.823,"text":"努力做做更多做更好這是行政權下一頁但是現在幼教法的第7條有15個版本立法委員不斷的提案爭相的加碼如果就這個第7個條文裡頭提出來的針對公立非營利準公共幼兒園的學生幼兒"},{"start":554.884,"end":566.913,"text":"全免他的学杂费每年要再增加150亿如果是私立幼儿园在家自己带的津贴更是有每个月零1万5到零2万"},{"start":568.29,"end":586.58,"text":"這樣子國庫會增加每年250億到450億所以我說立法委員加碼很容易開支票很簡單這個案子提一提大家抄一抄每年國家又再增加400到600億更不要忘了在野黨委員另外又提了台灣未來賬戶總體來講國庫要再支出4500億加起來5000萬億"},{"start":595.951,"end":613.938,"text":"國家再有錢再有能力拜託這些立委提案之前我們好好跟行政部門好好磋商裁員在哪裡做得到的我們努力做但不是這種片面修法的方式一再的增加預算最後一頁了"},{"start":615.899,"end":634.093,"text":"所以说我是很遗憾的来面对今天幼兆法的提案我们支持扩大对儿少的照顾政策能做的一定做加码做总统也提升了0到18岁的全照顾但是现在的幼兆法第七条有四个问题"},{"start":634.873,"end":652.311,"text":"就是第一個他無視於現行的照顧措施已經盡可能的普及跟盡可能的全面他無視於這個現況執意要加碼第二個如果要擴大對幼兆的照顧其實用行政命令就可以辦"},{"start":653.112,"end":681.488,"text":"不需要強制修法可以更精準照顧可以更快速上路第三個增加的經費不是只有中央政府喔立委開支票中央買單之外還有地方要共同支應的部分喔地方政府同意嗎難道最後立委修法之後又如法炮製就像營養午餐一樣立委說好好好以前地方有分擔現在全部收回中央府"},{"start":682.458,"end":705.198,"text":"国家再有钱也不可能这样用啊最后一个回到幼教的整个市场机制如果针对私校的津贴大幅的加码那么会破坏了整个市场的机制我想我这四点提醒部长您的comment是什么是不是认为这个提案我们真的应当要听看听"},{"start":705.859,"end":732.584,"text":"更嚴峻我想陳如瑋所提的確實這樣的一個制度上修法造成的一些衝擊應該讓中央跟地方有一個更全面好好來商量來討論因為影響不是只有中央是所以說我真的希望等一下教委看來可能又要逐條了我真的覺得不要為快而快討論也不是過水快轉"},{"start":734.008,"end":758.07,"text":"如果這些時間省下來省預算我們的運動部跟文化部的預算今天應當就已經完成審查了所以呢沒有預算怎麼花用沒有預算再多的錢坑法案你一樣沒有錢可以動之希望能夠我的喊話讓在野黨的委員能夠再三思大家辛苦了謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:15:12.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:15:18.775000+08:00","text":"謝謝，有請部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T14:15:19.056000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:15:19.076000+08:00","text":"請部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T14:15:29.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:15:29.606000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:15:29.927000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:15:40.597000+08:00","text":"部長辛苦了，今天您身體微恙，依舊在委員會來面對各黨委員的監督，工作要做、身體真的要顧，大家辛苦了。謝謝。","quality":0.644},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:15:41.938000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:16:10.866000+08:00","text":"針對校事會議的問題，我想多數的委員跟教育部站在同樣一個戰線、同樣一個立場，我們一定要保障孩子，我們更要支持老師，所以校事會議要改革、校事會議要優化，我們要重建校園的信任關係，而不是製造校園的對立，我想我們的立場是一樣的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:16:11.666000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:16:33.650000+08:00","text":"但是如果很輕率地就把已經進入革新，或者這幾年來一再優化的校事會議制度污名化，去製造校園師生之間或跟家長之間的對立，我覺得這就不是改革的真諦，我們要理性來看待，我們繼續加油。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:16:34.610000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:16:49.819000+08:00","text":"回到今天要修幼照法，非常遺憾要說，立法院的違憲加碼又一樁，立委大開支票就逼國庫買單，做得到嗎？","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:16:50.219000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:16:50.859000+08:00","text":"財源在哪裡？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:16:52.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:17:04.148000+08:00","text":"還是要複誦一下，只要總預算沒有完成審查，我這個列表會一直一直的來提醒，到今天為止，預算被延宕292天。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:17:06.429000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:17:11.933000+08:00","text":"我們昨天終於完成了國科會跟故宮的審查，這是好事，往前一步，但是運動部跟文化部的預算還是沒審，如果今天的議程能夠進入預算的審查，就如昨天審查的經驗，很可能今天就已經讓運動部的預算完成委員會的初審；文化部的預算也能夠往前推進。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:17:35.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:17:40.492000+08:00","text":"所以我還是希望預算是民生，有預算才能做事。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:17:42.052000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:18:12.579000+08:00","text":"但是今天我們看到立委的提案，立法院不做立法院、立法委員不審預算、立法委員不顧民生，但是爭相來加碼提法案的修正，立法院不做立法院，立法院要搶當行政院，我們都尊重，但是不能違憲、不能違反預算法、不能違反財政紀律法。","quality":0.989},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:18:13.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:18:30.580000+08:00","text":"如果一再用立委的片面修法增加國庫的支出，罔顧了財政的紀律，無視財政的現狀，更何況本末倒置通過了一堆加碼的法案，但預算不審、預算沒過，錢在哪裡？","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:18:31.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:18:40.646000+08:00","text":"我綜整一下，這個會期在教科文的錢坑法案A加B加C，其中A是什麼？","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:18:40.646000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:19:02.815000+08:00","text":"就是上週我們審查學貸三法的加碼版本，因為執政黨委員的提案被丟包，所以如果照上週在野黨委員的提案版本，學貸三法會增加國庫的支出至少100億，多則400億。","quality":0.954},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:19:04.676000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:19:27.847000+08:00","text":"接著ABC的B，也是教文委員會排審的營養午餐專法，當中的一個條文要增加國庫中央的負擔，就是現在22縣市全免的營養午餐費，全部要由中央買單，這樣中央又要增加138億支出。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:19:28.667000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:19:36.291000+08:00","text":"今天又來了，今天排審的幼兒教育及照顧法15個版本，少則增加400億的國庫支出，多則600億。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:19:36.291000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:20:07.257000+08:00","text":"所以部長我替您算好了，A加B加C，光這個會期，教科文委員會排審的這些立委片面增加國家支出，無顧財政紀律的法案A加B加C，教育部每年至少要增加638億到1,138億的支出。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:20:08.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:20:10.543000+08:00","text":"部長，我的資訊應當是正確的吧？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:20:11.885000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:20:12.447000+08:00","text":"教育部有這麼多預算嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:20:14.642000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:20:16.603000+08:00","text":"教育部財源在哪裡呢？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:20:17.724000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:20:23.487000+08:00","text":"而且我們更要說，立委要責成政府擴大對人民的照顧，可以！","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:20:24.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:20:53.009000+08:00","text":"但是我們來看看現行的制度是沒有做到還是沒有做好，我們可以來檢視，行政院正在做的「0-6歲國家一起養」，我們不管對公立、非營利或準公共幼兒園減免的費用，有36.5萬名幼兒受惠，每年國庫投入505億，中央440億、地方65億。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:20:53.009000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:21:11.729000+08:00","text":"另外，如果是讀私幼或是在家自己帶的20.5萬名幼生，國家每年投入180億，第一胎每個月給5,000元、第二胎給6,000元、第三胎給7,000元。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:21:11.729000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:21:13.770000+08:00","text":"而這180億裡頭，同樣中央負擔157億，地方也要負擔，比較少是23億元。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:21:23.164000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:21:33.659000+08:00","text":"所以國家正在做，這是行政權衡酌我們的財務狀況，能做的我們一定做，這是現在進行式，您也是推手。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:21:36.695000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:21:45.139000+08:00","text":"剛剛是國家正在做，而未來國家將要做的，從0到6歲擴大到0到18歲。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:21:45.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:21:46.979000+08:00","text":"部長，您有算過嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:21:46.979000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:22:11.378000+08:00","text":"我們0到18歲全照顧，賴總統、卓院長希望在國家財政有能力的範圍之內，成長津貼每個月5,000元，有2,500元是直接發給孩童，2,500元是國家替你提撥預存，預計每個兒少從0到18歲，國家至少投入154萬元的照顧，而這整體0到18歲國家全照顧計畫，每年國家會再投入1,850億元。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:22:23.305000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:22:35.939000+08:00","text":"錢當然可以花，但是這是行政院去衡酌，他要面對不同的面向，把所有國家財政的優先順序、能力可負擔的部分羅列出來的範圍。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:22:35.939000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:22:41.965000+08:00","text":"部長，這個政策是不是就可以擴大照顧我們非常多的年輕世代？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T14:22:43.241000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:22:52.743000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，確實是這樣，當時從0到6歲到後來擴大到0到18歲，它事實上是具有教育的發展性。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T14:22:53.543000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:23:03.005000+08:00","text":"對每一個青少年的整個發展、未來，我們看到生涯發展上的一些機會。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T14:23:07.867000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:23:12.909000+08:00","text":"包含6到18歲，我們看到每個月2,500元，在未來政府確保……","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:23:14.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:23:15.370000+08:00","text":"TISA的搭配。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T14:23:16.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:23:30.917000+08:00","text":"TISA的搭配，確保他最少的利息是不低於銀行的利息，而且長期投資，每一個青少年他讀大學或者高中畢業以後……","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:23:30.917000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T14:23:31.917000+08:00","text":"都幫他預留了未來的第一桶金。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T14:23:31.297000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:23:35.659000+08:00","text":"他要出國或者要創業，等於第一桶金大概就有了，這是在我們過去都沒有的。","quality":0.645},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:23:38.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:23:55.185000+08:00","text":"回到前一頁，國家投入505億元加180億元，還有下一頁，國家未來每年再投入1,850億元，加總起來，國家對於0到18歲的國家全照顧，大概每年就已經會有2,500、2,600億元了。","quality":0.557},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:23:56.166000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:24:07.471000+08:00","text":"這是行政權可以針對財政做得到的地方想方設法做，努力做、做更多、做更好，這是行政權。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:24:08.532000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:24:30.147000+08:00","text":"但是現在幼照法第七條有15個版本，立法委員不斷地提案爭相加碼，如果就第七條條文裡頭提出來的，針對公立、非營利、準公共幼兒園的學生、幼兒，全免他的學雜費，每年要再增加150億元。","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:24:31.568000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:24:44.072000+08:00","text":"如果是私立幼兒園、在家自己帶的，更是每個月領1萬5,000元到領2萬元津貼，這樣子國庫每年會增加250億到450億元。","quality":0.628},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:24:44.072000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:24:54.738000+08:00","text":"所以我說，立法委員加碼很容易，開支票很簡單，案子提一提，大家抄一抄，每年國家又再增加400到600億元。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:24:54.738000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:24:58.580000+08:00","text":"更不要忘了在野黨委員另外又提了臺灣未來帳戶，總體來講，國庫要再支出4,500億元，加起來五千多億元。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:25:07.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:25:32.282000+08:00","text":"國家再有錢、再有能力，拜託這些立委提案之前，好好跟行政部門磋商，財源在哪裡、做得到的我們努力做，但不是這種片面修法的方式一再地增加預算，所以我是很遺憾地來面對今天幼照法的提案。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:25:33.043000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:25:42.470000+08:00","text":"我們支持擴大對兒少的照顧政策，能做的一定做、加碼做，總統也提升了0到18歲的全照顧。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:25:43.030000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:26:24.643000+08:00","text":"但是現在的幼照法第七條有四個問題：第一個，他們無視於現行的照顧措施已經盡可能的普及、盡可能的全面，無視於這個現況，執意要加碼；第二個，如果要擴大對幼教的照顧，其實用行政規則就可以辦，不需要強制修法，可以更精準照顧、可以更快速上路；第三個，增加的經費不是只有中央政府，立委開支票，中央買單之外，還有地方要共同支應的部分，但地方政府同意嗎？","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:26:24.643000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:26:49.812000+08:00","text":"難道最後立委修法之後又如法炮製，就像營養午餐一樣，立委說：好，以前地方有分擔，現在全部收回中央付，國家再有錢也不可能這樣用；最後一個，回到幼教的整個市場機制，如果針對私校的津貼大幅加碼，會破壞整個市場機制。","quality":0.793},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:26:50.392000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:26:53.615000+08:00","text":"我這四點提醒，部長，您的comment是什麼？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:26:54.276000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:26:58.039000+08:00","text":"是不是認為這個提案我們應當要停、看、聽，要更嚴謹？","quality":0.476},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T14:26:58.219000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:27:10.381000+08:00","text":"我想誠如委員所提的，確實這樣制度上修法所造成的一些衝擊，應該讓中央跟地方有一個更全面……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:27:10.441000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:27:11.181000+08:00","text":"好好來商量……","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T14:27:12.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:27:12.002000+08:00","text":"來討論……","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:27:12.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:27:14.262000+08:00","text":"因為影響不是只有中央。是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:27:15.882000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:27:24.584000+08:00","text":"我真的希望……等一下召委看來可能又要逐條了，我真的覺得不要為快而快，討論也不是過水快轉。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:27:26.008000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:27:34.356000+08:00","text":"如果這些時間省下來審預算，我們運動部跟文化部的預算今天應當就已經完成審查了。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:27:35.717000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:27:38.079000+08:00","text":"沒有預算怎麼花用？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:27:38.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:27:48.929000+08:00","text":"沒有預算，再多的錢坑法案你一樣沒有錢可以動支，希望我的喊話能夠讓在野黨的委員再三思。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"吳委員思瑤","start":"2026-06-18T14:27:49.409000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-18T14:27:50.070000+08:00","text":"大家辛苦了，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2026-06-18T14:27:50.570000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T14:27:51.712857+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T14:27:52.012857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T14:28:00.584286+08:00","text":"謝謝伍麗華委員，對不起，抱歉，因為我一直看著伍麗華委員，抱歉，真的抱歉。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T14:28:00.884286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T14:28:02.884286+08:00","text":"謝謝吳思瑤委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T14:28:03.184286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T14:28:05.470000+08:00","text":"請鄭天財委員質詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-18T14:28:05.770000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-18T14:28:22.912857+08:00","text":"也跟伍麗華委員特別報告，下禮拜您當召委，如果你願意把時間給我的話，我來排審預算也沒問題，如果你有需要的話，因為下禮拜是您，我要尊重您。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":760,"blocks":[["吳委員思瑤：（14時15分）謝謝，有請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好。"],["吳委員思瑤：部長辛苦了，今天您身體微恙，依舊在委員會來面對各黨委員的監督，工作要做、身體真的要顧，大家辛苦了。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝。"],["吳委員思瑤：針對校事會議的問題，我想多數的委員跟教育部站在同樣一個戰線、同樣一個立場，我們一定要保障孩子，我們更要支持老師，所以校事會議要改革、校事會議要優化，我們要重建校園的信任關係，而不是製造校園的對立，我想我們的立場是一樣的。但是如果很輕率地就把已經進入革新，或者這幾年來一再優化的校事會議制度污名化，去製造校園師生之間或跟家長之間的對立，我覺得這就不是改革的真諦，我們要理性來看待，我們繼續加油。","回到今天要修幼照法，非常遺憾要說，立法院的違憲加碼又一樁，立委大開支票就逼國庫買單，做得到嗎？財源在哪裡？還是要複誦一下，只要總預算沒有完成審查，我這個列表會一直一直的來提醒，到今天為止，預算被延宕292天。我們昨天終於完成了國科會跟故宮的審查，這是好事，往前一步，但是運動部跟文化部的預算還是沒審，如果今天的議程能夠進入預算的審查，就如昨天審查的經驗，很可能今天就已經讓運動部的預算完成委員會的初審；文化部的預算也能夠往前推進。所以我還是希望預算是民生，有預算才能做事。","但是今天我們看到立委的提案，立法院不做立法院、立法委員不審預算、立法委員不顧民生，但是爭相來加碼提法案的修正，立法院不做立法院，立法院要搶當行政院，我們都尊重，但是不能違憲、不能違反預算法、不能違反財政紀律法。如果一再用立委的片面修法增加國庫的支出，罔顧了財政的紀律，無視財政的現狀，更何況本末倒置通過了一堆加碼的法案，但預算不審、預算沒過，錢在哪裡？","我綜整一下，這個會期在教科文的錢坑法案A加B加C，其中A是什麼？就是上週我們審查學貸三法的加碼版本，因為執政黨委員的提案被丟包，所以如果照上週在野黨委員的提案版本，學貸三法會增加國庫的支出至少100億，多則400億。接著ABC的B，也是教文委員會排審的營養午餐專法，當中的一個條文要增加國庫中央的負擔，就是現在22縣市全免的營養午餐費，全部要由中央買單，這樣中央又要增加138億支出。今天又來了，今天排審的幼兒教育及照顧法15個版本，少則增加400億的國庫支出，多則600億。所以部長我替您算好了，A加B加C，光這個會期，教科文委員會排審的這些立委片面增加國家支出，無顧財政紀律的法案A加B加C，教育部每年至少要增加638億到1,138億的支出。部長，我的資訊應當是正確的吧？教育部有這麼多預算嗎？教育部財源在哪裡呢？而且我們更要說，立委要責成政府擴大對人民的照顧，可以！但是我們來看看現行的制度是沒有做到還是沒有做好，我們可以來檢視，行政院正在做的「0-6歲國家一起養」，我們不管對公立、非營利或準公共幼兒園減免的費用，有36.5萬名幼兒受惠，每年國庫投入505億，中央440億、地方65億。另外，如果是讀私幼或是在家自己帶的20.5萬名幼生，國家每年投入180億，第一胎每個月給5,000元、第二胎給6,000元、第三胎給7,000元。而這180億裡頭，同樣中央負擔157億，地方也要負擔，比較少是23億元。所以國家正在做，這是行政權衡酌我們的財務狀況，能做的我們一定做，這是現在進行式，您也是推手。","剛剛是國家正在做，而未來國家將要做的，從0到6歲擴大到0到18歲。部長，您有算過嗎？我們0到18歲全照顧，賴總統、卓院長希望在國家財政有能力的範圍之內，成長津貼每個月5,000元，有2,500元是直接發給孩童，2,500元是國家替你提撥預存，預計每個兒少從0到18歲，國家至少投入154萬元的照顧，而這整體0到18歲國家全照顧計畫，每年國家會再投入1,850億元。錢當然可以花，但是這是行政院去衡酌，他要面對不同的面向，把所有國家財政的優先順序、能力可負擔的部分羅列出來的範圍。部長，這個政策是不是就可以擴大照顧我們非常多的年輕世代？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，確實是這樣，當時從0到6歲到後來擴大到0到18歲，它事實上是具有教育的發展性。對每一個青少年的整個發展、未來，我們看到生涯發展上的一些機會。包含6到18歲，我們看到每個月2,500元，在未來政府確保……"],["吳委員思瑤：TISA的搭配。"],["鄭部長英耀：TISA的搭配，確保他最少的利息是不低於銀行的利息，而且長期投資，每一個青少年他讀大學或者高中畢業以後……"],["吳委員思瑤：都幫他預留了未來的第一桶金。"],["鄭部長英耀：他要出國或者要創業，等於第一桶金大概就有了，這是在我們過去都沒有的。"],["吳委員思瑤：回到前一頁，國家投入505億元加180億元，還有下一頁，國家未來每年再投入1,850億元，加總起來，國家對於0到18歲的國家全照顧，大概每年就已經會有2,500、2,600億元了。這是行政權可以針對財政做得到的地方想方設法做，努力做、做更多、做更好，這是行政權。但是現在幼照法第七條有15個版本，立法委員不斷地提案爭相加碼，如果就第七條條文裡頭提出來的，針對公立、非營利、準公共幼兒園的學生、幼兒，全免他的學雜費，每年要再增加150億元。如果是私立幼兒園、在家自己帶的，更是每個月領1萬5,000元到領2萬元津貼，這樣子國庫每年會增加250億到450億元。所以我說，立法委員加碼很容易，開支票很簡單，案子提一提，大家抄一抄，每年國家又再增加400到600億元。更不要忘了在野黨委員另外又提了臺灣未來帳戶，總體來講，國庫要再支出4,500億元，加起來五千多億元。國家再有錢、再有能力，拜託這些立委提案之前，好好跟行政部門磋商，財源在哪裡、做得到的我們努力做，但不是這種片面修法的方式一再地增加預算，所以我是很遺憾地來面對今天幼照法的提案。","我們支持擴大對兒少的照顧政策，能做的一定做、加碼做，總統也提升了0到18歲的全照顧。但是現在的幼照法第七條有四個問題：第一個，他們無視於現行的照顧措施已經盡可能的普及、盡可能的全面，無視於這個現況，執意要加碼；第二個，如果要擴大對幼教的照顧，其實用行政規則就可以辦，不需要強制修法，可以更精準照顧、可以更快速上路；第三個，增加的經費不是只有中央政府，立委開支票，中央買單之外，還有地方要共同支應的部分，但地方政府同意嗎？難道最後立委修法之後又如法炮製，就像營養午餐一樣，立委說：好，以前地方有分擔，現在全部收回中央付，國家再有錢也不可能這樣用；最後一個，回到幼教的整個市場機制，如果針對私校的津貼大幅加碼，會破壞整個市場機制。我這四點提醒，部長，您的comment是什麼？是不是認為這個提案我們應當要停、看、聽，要更嚴謹？"],["鄭部長英耀：我想誠如委員所提的，確實這樣制度上修法所造成的一些衝擊，應該讓中央跟地方有一個更全面……"],["吳委員思瑤：好好來商量……"],["鄭部長英耀：來討論……"],["吳委員思瑤：因為影響不是只有中央。"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["吳委員思瑤：我真的希望……等一下召委看來可能又要逐條了，我真的覺得不要為快而快，討論也不是過水快轉。如果這些時間省下來審預算，我們運動部跟文化部的預算今天應當就已經完成審查了。沒有預算怎麼花用？沒有預算，再多的錢坑法案你一樣沒有錢可以動支，希望我的喊話能夠讓在野黨的委員再三思。大家辛苦了，謝謝。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝伍麗華委員，對不起，抱歉，因為我一直看著伍麗華委員，抱歉，真的抱歉。謝謝吳思瑤委員。","請鄭天財委員質詢。也跟伍麗華委員特別報告，下禮拜您當召委，如果你願意把時間給我的話，我來排審預算也沒問題，如果你有需要的話，因為下禮拜是您，我要尊重您。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":176,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-5-22,26-1","speakers":["羅廷瑋","張嘉郡","王育敏","蔡春綢","陳培瑜","林月琴","柯志恩","羅智強","葛如鈞","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","林宜瑾","吳沛憶","劉建國","黃秀芳","葉元之","吳思瑤","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王正旭","徐欣瑩","林淑芬","傅崐萁","林倩綺","蘇清泉","陳菁徽","盧縣一"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2026-06-18"],"gazette_id":"1155302","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155302_00002","1155302_00003","1155302_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查(一)委員蘇清泉等20人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員徐\n欣瑩等20人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員林月琴等16人擬具「幼\n兒教育及照顧法第三十條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員王育敏等21人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法部\n分條文修正草案」案、(五)委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第十一條、第十二條及第\n三十二條之一條文修正草案」案、(六)委員徐巧芯等21人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修\n正草案」案、(七)委員葉元之等17人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案、(八)委\n員黃仁等19 人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案、 ( 九) 委員張嘉郡等19 人擬具\n「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案、(十)委員羅廷瑋等22人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法\n第七條條文修正草案」案、( 十一) 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草\n案」案、(十二)委員羅智強等17人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案、(十三)委\n員鄭正鈐等17人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案、(十四)委員林倩綺等23人擬\n具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員廖先翔等16人擬具「幼兒教育及照\n顧法第七條條文修正草案」案、(十六)委員王育敏等23人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修\n正草案」案、(十七)委員王育敏等21人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第四十三條及第五十二條條文修\n正草案」案、(十八)委員廖偉翔等23人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案、 (十\n九)委員葛如鈞等18人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案、(二十)委員李彥秀等\n19人擬具「幼兒教育及照顧法第七條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1155302_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}