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育的部分嘛因為你們剛剛的口詞這個用詞都講到生育但是上次我們現在在育兒就是養育的部分才會有幾個月的部分請問你們這個發放的對象有適用那個收養的家庭嗎有適用收養的家庭嗎"},{"start":46.86,"end":62.377,"text":"收養孩子的人有沒有適用這個育兒津貼呢?有還是沒有?沒有就檢討你的精神是這樣嘛要讓大家能夠去養小孩啊願意養小孩啊"},{"start":63.832,"end":90.849,"text":"生當然是一個意願那生完很重要是養啊養到成年啊你說不出來都沒有齁我幾十年前收一個孩子我完全沒有受惠啦但是我OK的但是我要告訴你們沒有齁這段這麼長時間沒辦法回答主席這個時間要扣掉喔有沒有有沒有委員如果是法定的收養的話是可以的現在法定收養都有法定有沒有人要照顧孩子這麼辛苦養一輩子"},{"start":92.301,"end":118.967,"text":"你要納入喔 你要確定 那不能再給我一個報告好嗎 次長那 經過養 收養小孩那年紀還在規定範圍內的時候OK 有道理嗎是育兒嘛 育兒嘛OK 好 謝謝那將來 將來我倡議的代孕法案過了也請你好好想好 準備這件事情我們再研究 好嗎委託夫妻 如果透過代孕有了小孩這個孩子你要 他要養啊 養啊"},{"start":121.215,"end":134.189,"text":"你要不要放在裡面你要先去研議喔不要等我這個法已經過了然後你在那邊完全沒有公平的對待可以嗎那你先給我這個收養的部分然後再來是這個代孕部分好嗎"},{"start":135.25,"end":152.395,"text":"我們來研究一定要啊那收養就立刻要有答案啊收養我想這幾天內就請你給我一個答案不給不公平啊不給不公平啊只要法定程序收養的是可以適用的現在都是兒童福利法都是收養都是非常嚴謹的都是有證照的啦能夠自己生的都沒有證照"},{"start":153.195,"end":163.541,"text":"這個整個收養過程我們太清楚了這個面談不要多少次在法官面前還要上課還要這個健康檢查證明良民證那個收入證明財產證明太多過程了這個都是法定的程序好嗎你們漏掉的部分顯然你們是漏掉但是我要跟委員補充說明就性別評論工作法它的立法精神是希望父母要親自照顧小孩是親自啊 收養小孩是親"},{"start":179.671,"end":201.14,"text":"是來就已經收養他就是法定他的孩子啊主席不好意思這個他們如果連定義都不清楚我這個時間都不算了因為我今天還是很重要幫公務員講話我只是要補充說明這個立法意志沒有啦 你就要想看看嘛收養孩子我以前就一直在講這件事情因為我收養孩子已經30年了以前我們完全沒有被顧慮到但事實上人家說好偉大好偉大我也不覺得偉大啦這個都是自己的意願"},{"start":202.1,"end":212.608,"text":"收養立刻補上去養孩子嘛 育兒嘛 育兒嘛很多人就是不敢養才不生嘛好嗎 次長可以這樣 我這樣講有道理吧就法定程序收養都適用好 這幾分錢都好 一定是現在還有偷小孩嗎 那是犯法你不要跟我講法定好嗎兒童福利法 請我去查查看好 麻煩你 次長這樣可以嗎是我今天 然後請你準備 待遇法案通過以後再下來你怎麼處理我們來研究 來研究好 謝謝 謝謝然後這個 全區部部長也麻煩您跟我回答一樣的問題好嗎"},{"start":231.428,"end":254.008,"text":"沒有錯 我們的制度都是跟著那個現在新北公共平台跟就業保險法一樣的你意思是說收養都沒有啊收養有啊有 只要是依法收養我不要再講依法這個字眼 有人會覺得就是一樣的 一樣的制度市長聽到 就是一樣啊 要一樣啊生的放一邊養的大如天啊待運回來你也請你準備好好 謝謝 謝謝好 這個是 那"},{"start":257.211,"end":271.979,"text":"我想 次長請回首先我要對考試院這次公保法、利用法還有考試法修法方向表示支持小子女的話講了這麼多年我們看到很具體的一步但是因為前進的一步我們就看得再深遠一點那剛剛我們也做了報告民眾黨黨團提出一個修法版本我們希望把這個育兒留職這個停薪津貼的基準從現在的百分之六十拉高到百分之八十那請問副秘書長還有全序部長你們基本上能夠支持這樣的一個版本嗎"},{"start":288.805,"end":308.955,"text":"事實上就是另外20%就已經加到20%那個部長我知道這個部分就是說事實上有但是我們希望保障法定保障是提高到80%我知道委員的意思是希望把它放法裡面去法裡面就有跟委員報告細節的東西因為我們公保是個保險那有可能定期就要重新算費率啦"},{"start":310.196,"end":329.548,"text":"事實上最好的方式是說把電池提到80你們照樣補助就是百分之百直接補助啊你要生小孩就這樣才有成果啊這個事情因為我們都是跟著性別平等工作法來的啦所以法案要修應該從那邊開始但是你身為主管我想你也可以往前去思考嘛對我知道這個事情"},{"start":331.589,"end":336.691,"text":"我們都知道公務員的公保投保金額是用本縫計算公務員有很多專業家級、職務家級但本縫往往很低有人剛開始在兩萬多、三萬多我們也必須知道你要鼓勵相對年輕人生小孩不是過了育齡年齡所以相對他們的本縫是一定在比較低的部分"},{"start":350.174,"end":360.496,"text":"雖然這次修法有說如果保險本封低於這個對低工資會補差額但是如果超過呢因為有的很低嘛那如果超過的你要有這個決心鼓勵生育部長我覺得至少有兩個重點本封還是要調整嘛本封因為為什麼呢因為公保的給付育嬰留庭這個津貼退休金提撥都是根據本封啊剛剛林委員提到都是根據本封你計算的基礎都是本封啊"},{"start":378.224,"end":401.675,"text":"我沒有考慮啊我之前在質詢也有說明這十年來GDP的成長率超過大概94%但是公職人員他們的調薪才14%遠遠跟不上所以本鳳的部分我還是請部長能夠費心一下至於剛剛我提到60%保障法定的百分比提到80%也請你們好好努力因為我們現在重點是要鼓勵大家生養小孩嘛"},{"start":402.595,"end":427.13,"text":"那公務員是沒有這個後顧之憂啦好嗎 那個這個部分60到80我可不可以在兩週內知道你們初步的研議結果呢好可以嗎可以 就是我們現在其實也是把差別只是說要不要入法啦補助歸補助啊入法就是要入 付法才有保障啊入法就有可能會調費率啦安心養育我就跟委員報告說他有可能會調費率啦安心養育 好"},{"start":427.93,"end":450.506,"text":"那最近賴總統終於醒悟了推出育兒大禮包 包含同事職貸有津貼 人力調度有配套 老闆補人有資源那所以我要請教這個副秘書長跟部長 勞動部正努力往這個方向走那公務員體系要對齊嘛 這個現在是政府最喜歡用的兩個字嘛那根據現行的公務員加急給予辦法 公務員請假留庭 現職同事代理很重要 要連續十天"},{"start":452.607,"end":465.684,"text":"才能夠領取這個食物佳績但是很多家長他需要的後來有的時候是短期的零星的零傘的部分那個育兒減工時或短期請假那如果沒有滿10天的代理那你不是要同時做功德嗎"},{"start":467.526,"end":489.241,"text":"這樣對嗎 所以請問全序部 十天以上才有今天的緊箍咒 要不要拿掉各位報告 我想這個事情 從另外角度來講應該政府部門永遠都走在前面了以前勞動部門有休 我們就已經先有 只是說要連續十天現在就是說因為有這個制度的話 我們就來看看有沒有需要休我們事實上政府部門還有另外一個獎勵的制度"},{"start":490.282,"end":495.424,"text":"我們會來繼續來研議這個事情叫人家做功德彼此幫忙好嗎就是給那因為勞動部有在研議在幫忙代理育兒工時可以按日取津貼大概例如每天800元所以我們是不是可以研議一下那個彈性津貼過績效這個獎勵所以秘書長這個"},{"start":509.329,"end":516.716,"text":"考試院這次踏出了第一步,但不能只做半套啦所以我們希望是針對公務人員,值待十天的門檻放寬以及對齊民間育兒值待津貼的機制我是不是想請人總,今天人總也出席了兩週內提出一份署名報告給我如果說機關認為我們請新人來幫忙那也可以啊,那看你的配套是什麼"},{"start":537.492,"end":539.694,"text":"這樣可以嗎我想兩周內我們來提個書面報告跟委員報告說以前已經有這個制度了現在這個制度因為這個修正有沒有需要再做一點討論這樣子"},{"start":552.663,"end":581.437,"text":"那現在還是麻煩部長還有這個人種的陳樹之處長跟教育部林處長我一邊講好嗎這個時間全國退休人員在今年六月已經陸續收到這個補發停感年金的重新審定函全序部也表明最晚會在今年八月以前要完成補撥一百一十四年十二月底到到今年七月這個差額那這件事我本身要先給全序部一個肯定那當然我之前也問了要不要回溯到"},{"start":582.097,"end":582.137,"text":"6月幾號?6月8號"},{"start":611.852,"end":613.773,"text":"6月11號那發言人說假話啦那你如果講老實話他就是說假話啦6月11號他就說沒有啊我們沒有收到公文啊可以這樣嗎 可以公然這樣嗎好 我再請問一下人總人總有沒有收到公文"},{"start":626.178,"end":648.772,"text":"報告委員有給人事總署的公文有收到那為什麼6月11號李慧芝說沒收到是她推脫還是妳在推脫是她講老實話還是妳講老實話報告委員因為受問者是行政院人事總署並不是行政院可以這樣回答是不是那發言人可以不知道就隨便講話嗎我沒有收到他等憲法法庭"},{"start":649.827,"end":664.653,"text":"委員我跟您報告我們給所有的主管機關都發給各職主管所以也給各部會也給行政院應該是這樣子啦那所以他只是總署代表是總署收到這樣子啦總署收到這麼大的事不知道就可以發言嗎發言人要好好做功課啊"},{"start":665.748,"end":669.773,"text":"那個陳處長 請問人總 就是說不管你收到當然就是說你是收到了啦 還是現在才看到那你會配合辦理嗎 通知各機關嗎 還是扣著不辦 還是要等什麼釋憲呢你們會做嗎 要釋憲嗎報告委員 人事總處收到是副本嗎"},{"start":684.727,"end":709.844,"text":"然後你要等釋憲嗎?還是要趕快辦?我們就是依照行政院的政策來執行政策是什麼?是要等釋憲還是現在辦?對,就是依照行政院政策來依釋憲結束也尊重全區部檢查的權利你有法律基礎嗎?立法院三讀通過的東西你不遵守?你要等著一個不做功課的發言人講說他要等釋憲?"},{"start":713.108,"end":732.016,"text":"這樣嗎我們就是針對這個相關的這個退補法律勇敢一點對就是對錯就是錯都是尊重依照行政院的政策執行好依照行政院好大家聽齁全國國民都在聽這個這個這個質詢齁好教育部林處長請問針對退休要教師部分教育部編列補發停凱年金的預算嗎發的夠發的出來嗎有編列嗎夠嗎"},{"start":735.498,"end":760.795,"text":"跟委員報告 這個不用預算 原來就在裡面 只是說我們原來節省下來的是預註回來所以他是沒有預算的問題沒有預算表示發了出來 對好 發了出來 謝謝你那全區部行政院 剛剛你說要申請釋憲所以你們是贊成 你是支持行政院用釋憲來拖延跟不買單立法院通過的法律作為嗎"},{"start":761.696,"end":784.043,"text":"你是不是支持我跟委員報告這不是知不知是這個釋憲案已經在進行了我們已經提出釋憲案但是我們還是依法行政我們這依法行政的過程就是說釋憲是一個程序我們現在把該做的事情審定發出去然後8月1號以前就按照這個方式那當然這中間過程還有釋憲還在進行中我想跟委員這樣報告"},{"start":785.283,"end":806.717,"text":"那你能不能承諾今年8月1號那個差額的部分可不可以百分之百如期發發因為我們審定案出去按理說機關就根據這個審定案來進行8月1號可以齁那就是說當然這裡面還是有視線的程序但是如果視線程序都沒有任何一個狀況當然就是按照這個程序來進行視線是行政院提的啊考試院也要跟著這個嗎違憲嗎我們考試院也有提視線你也提視線喔對"},{"start":811.653,"end":820.429,"text":"好 你今天好好跟所有公務員講 你們要提釋憲不是 我們已經提了憲法法庭 大法官都不夠了 開什麼會好"},{"start":826.258,"end":832.563,"text":"本席還要替18萬退休工作人員向程序部澄清台灣教育產業公會日前召開記者會他們說程序部發出了這個重新審定通知書敷衍了事失去通知書的意義我深有感受很多退休工作人員徒苦等了半年滿心期待打開這一份攸關自己年老生活的這個行政處分書結果帶上腦花眼一看發現這樣只是把112年所得替代率的救贖數字直接超過來了它不是實發的金額啦拜託你們這種事也做得出來"},{"start":856,"end":873.549,"text":"這個全區部附上的QA就是問答當中請退休人自己計算說要乘以1.02 1.04所以退校公教的人就告訴我說我都老花眼了你還叫我自己算喔部長為什麼會這樣呢為什麼發生這樣的事呢不是我們都是根據一項的狀況因為退休審定感是一個基礎它不會變動"},{"start":874.429,"end":893.199,"text":"所以我們一定要把它跟發出的這112年你實際上的省定額多少那因為退休是會調整的所以每一次調整就根據省定額的基數去乘以那個1.0幾1.0可是這個系統自動會帶出來也就是說另外一個發放系統的時候到時候他刷本子你在講處理過程思考過程但是對民眾跟公務員而言國家難道不是一體的嗎"},{"start":897.501,"end":902.406,"text":"政府就明明有全國國家能退休輔續的整合平台資訊系統技術上你們已經把想要調整後的金額匯入平台了為什麼就不能再給當事人的處分書或通知書多加一個欄位呢就是115年實際發放金額為什麼這種變名措施這個行政局只做半套呢為什麼把換算責任丟給那個曾經為國家勞心勞力的退休公務"},{"start":919.182,"end":931.46,"text":"他們真的不用判斷就是那個發放平台最後會自動算出來把就直接機關就根據這個下來就發放就直接到你幹嘛還讓人家一堆人看不懂啊真的一堆人看不懂啊因為我審定作業就是發審定函啊"},{"start":935.472,"end":955.599,"text":"好 那就我想本期要具體要求請全序部在一個月內研議針對這18名這個退休工作人員從今何發你從今何發會提供一個能明確查閱真實的退休經時發的額數的通知機制不要讓國家的一致性跟政府的公信力在一張羽翼模糊啦做半套在審定書上好嗎你可以答應嗎"},{"start":960.749,"end":982.42,"text":"我想這個到八一一號八一一號的大家這樣刷本子的知道了啦你還是要刷本子喔八一號每一個人都會入帳啊就直接入帳了啦故意學問很大然後寫了三四頁我都看不懂的東西寫了一大堆法條一大堆你就把告訴他你要補你多少啊你們有資料啊就是告訴他啊不要讓他自己算算這樣可以嗎"},{"start":984.142,"end":990.677,"text":"反正將來一定還要再補我們真正通過的部分還有兩年的部分要補謝謝 謝謝各位 謝謝主席"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:36:15.778000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:36:15.959000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:36:16.459000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:36:20.044000+08:00","text":"有請勞動部次長、銓敘部部長還有考試院吳副秘書長。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-24T09:36:20.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:36:20.384000+08:00","text":"有請3位。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳副秘書長美紅","start":"2026-06-24T09:36:20.384000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:36:27.700000+08:00","text":"委員早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:36:27.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:36:33.804000+08:00","text":"剛剛聽了諸位的報告，我想要了解目前已經存在的育兒津貼。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:36:33.804000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:36:47.133000+08:00","text":"我先請教勞動部次長，請問你們這個育兒津貼，因為是「育」的部分，你們剛剛的用詞都講到生育，但事實上我們現在在談育兒，就是養育，才會有幾個月的部分。","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:36:47.774000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:36:50.456000+08:00","text":"請問你們發放的對象有適用收養的家庭嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:36:54.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:36:59.986000+08:00","text":"收養孩子的人有沒有適用育兒津貼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:37:00.286000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:37:00.827000+08:00","text":"有還是沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:37:02.409000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:37:04.431000+08:00","text":"沒有就去檢討。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:37:04.431000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:37:16.635000+08:00","text":"你的精神是這樣嘛，要讓大家能夠去養小孩、願意養小孩，生當然是一個意願，但生完了很重要的是養，養到成年。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:37:17.796000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:37:18.436000+08:00","text":"你說不出來？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:37:18.436000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:37:19.657000+08:00","text":"都沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:37:19.717000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:37:25.761000+08:00","text":"我幾十年前收養一個孩子，我完全沒有受惠，但是我OK的，我要告訴你們……沒有喔？","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:37:28.302000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:37:29.843000+08:00","text":"這麼長的時間都沒辦法回答，主席，這個時間要扣掉。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:37:30.784000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:37:31.024000+08:00","text":"有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李次長健鴻","start":"2026-06-24T09:37:31.444000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:37:34.006000+08:00","text":"委員，如果是法定收養的話是可以的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:37:34.946000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:37:38.108000+08:00","text":"現在收養都要法定，難道有人養一個孩子還這麼辛苦？","quality":0.682},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:37:38.569000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:37:40.841000+08:00","text":"養一輩子，你要納入喔！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:37:41.001000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:37:43.122000+08:00","text":"你要確定，不然你再給我一個報告好嗎？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:37:43.122000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:37:46.622000+08:00","text":"次長，就是說收養小孩……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"李次長健鴻","start":"2026-06-24T09:37:46.622000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:37:47.622000+08:00","text":"經過法定程序收養的是可以的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:37:47.423000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:37:49.483000+08:00","text":"但年紀還在規定範圍內的時候。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"李次長健鴻","start":"2026-06-24T09:37:49.483000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:37:51.203000+08:00","text":"法定程序收養的……OK？","quality":0.222},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:37:51.203000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:37:51.423000+08:00","text":"有道理吧？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:37:52.524000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:37:53.744000+08:00","text":"是育兒嘛。對。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:37:55.284000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:37:55.984000+08:00","text":"OK，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:37:57.105000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:38:00.845000+08:00","text":"將來我倡議的代孕法案過了，也請你好好的思考、準備這件事情。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"李次長健鴻","start":"2026-06-24T09:38:01.446000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:38:02.246000+08:00","text":"我們再來研究。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:38:02.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:38:09.836000+08:00","text":"委託夫妻如果透過代孕而有了小孩，這個孩子他要養，你要不要放在裡面？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:38:10.176000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:38:10.957000+08:00","text":"你要先去研議喔！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:38:11.818000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:38:17.684000+08:00","text":"不要等我這個法已經過了，然後你在那邊完全沒有公平的對待，可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:38:17.684000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:38:22.189000+08:00","text":"那你先給我收養的部分，然後再來是代孕部分，好嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李次長健鴻","start":"2026-06-24T09:38:23.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:38:23.750000+08:00","text":"我們來研究。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:38:24.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:38:24.870000+08:00","text":"一定要啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:38:25.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:38:26.611000+08:00","text":"收養就立刻要有答案啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:38:27.131000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:38:30.152000+08:00","text":"收養的部分我想這幾天內就請你給我一個答案，不給不公平啊！","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"李次長健鴻","start":"2026-06-24T09:38:31.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:38:34.693000+08:00","text":"我剛剛跟委員說明，只要法定程序收養的是可以適用的。","quality":0.652},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:38:34.973000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:38:48.980000+08:00","text":"現在都是依兒童福利法，收養都是非常嚴謹的，都是有證照的，能夠自己生的都沒有證照，這整個收養過程我們太清楚了，面談不曉得多少次，在法官面前，還要上課，還要健康檢查證明、良民證、收入證明、財產證明，太多過程了，這都是法定的程序好嗎？是。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:38:48.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:38:49.820000+08:00","text":"你們漏掉的部分，顯然你們是漏掉。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李次長健鴻","start":"2026-06-24T09:38:49.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:38:51.161000+08:00","text":"但是我要跟委員補充說明，性別平等工作法的立法精神是希望父母要親自照顧小孩。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:38:51.181000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:38:51.221000+08:00","text":"是親自啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:38:51.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:39:09.892000+08:00","text":"收養小孩，已經收養他了，就是法定是他的孩子啊！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:39:10.952000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:39:15.514000+08:00","text":"主席，不好意思，他們如果連定義都不清楚，我這個時間都不算了，因為我今天還是有很重要的要談，要幫公務員講話。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"李次長健鴻","start":"2026-06-24T09:39:15.514000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:39:17.555000+08:00","text":"我只是要補充說明這個立法意旨。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:39:17.855000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:39:31.121000+08:00","text":"沒有啦，你就要想看看嘛，關於收養孩子，我以前就一直在講這件事情，因為我收養孩子已經30年了，以前我們完全沒有被顧慮到，但事實上人家說好偉大、好偉大，我也不覺得偉大啦，這都是自己的意願，收養立刻補上去！","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:39:31.781000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:39:35.224000+08:00","text":"養孩子嘛、育兒嘛，很多人就是不敢養才不生，好嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:39:35.224000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:39:35.684000+08:00","text":"次長，我這樣講有道理吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李次長健鴻","start":"2026-06-24T09:39:36.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:39:36.285000+08:00","text":"就是法定程序收養都適用。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:39:36.305000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:39:36.905000+08:00","text":"好，這幾分鐘都……現在還有人偷小孩嗎？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:39:36.905000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:39:37.566000+08:00","text":"那是犯法的，你不要跟我一直講法定好嗎？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:39:37.566000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:39:38.066000+08:00","text":"兒童福利法，你去查查看。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:39:38.106000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:39:38.326000+08:00","text":"麻煩你，次長，這樣可以嗎？是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:39:38.766000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:39:39.927000+08:00","text":"然後請你準備，代孕法案通過以後，接下來你要怎麼處理。","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"李次長健鴻","start":"2026-06-24T09:39:39.967000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:39:40.047000+08:00","text":"我們來研究、來研究。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:39:40.067000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:39:40.087000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝、謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:39:40.207000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:39:40.608000+08:00","text":"也麻煩銓敘部部長跟我回答一樣的問題，好嗎？","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:39:59.428000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:40:03.912000+08:00","text":"沒有錯，我們的制度都是跟著性別平等工作法跟就業保險法一樣的，所以我們的收養也可以……","quality":0.579},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:40:04.813000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:40:06.274000+08:00","text":"你意思是說收養都沒有喔？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:40:06.795000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:40:07.055000+08:00","text":"收養有啊！有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:40:07.055000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:40:09.577000+08:00","text":"好，那就……","quality":0},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:40:09.577000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:40:12.240000+08:00","text":"我不要再講「依法」這個字眼，委員會覺得……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:40:12.240000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:40:13.240000+08:00","text":"次長、次長……","quality":0},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:40:13.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:40:14.181000+08:00","text":"就是一樣的制度啦！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:40:14.522000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:40:15.082000+08:00","text":"次長聽到，就是一樣啊！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:40:15.402000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:40:17.284000+08:00","text":"要一樣啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:40:17.284000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:40:18.345000+08:00","text":"養小孩很重要啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:40:18.345000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:40:19.746000+08:00","text":"生的放一邊、養的大如天啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:40:21.248000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:40:21.768000+08:00","text":"代孕法也請你準備好，謝謝、謝謝。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:40:26.352000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:40:26.792000+08:00","text":"次長請回。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:40:27.212000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:40:36.737000+08:00","text":"首先我要對考試院這次公保法、任用法還有考試法的修法方向表示支持，少子女化講了這麼多年，我們看到很具體的一步，但是因為前進了一步，我們就看得再深遠一點。","quality":0.928},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:40:36.757000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:40:38.658000+08:00","text":"剛剛我們也做了報告，民眾黨黨團提出一個修法版本，我們希望把育兒留職停薪津貼的基準從現在的60%拉高到80%。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:40:38.978000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:40:39.979000+08:00","text":"請問副秘書長還有銓敘部長，你們基本上能夠支持這樣的版本嗎？","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:40:39.979000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:40:57.045000+08:00","text":"現在可以回答嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:40:57.045000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:41:01.548000+08:00","text":"現在實際上就已經加到20%了。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:41:02.048000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:41:07.571000+08:00","text":"是，部長，我知道這個部分，就是說事實上有，但是我們希望保障，法定的保障提高到80%。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:41:07.571000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:41:10.592000+08:00","text":"我知道委員的意思，希望把它放法裡面去。對。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:41:10.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:41:11.273000+08:00","text":"法裡面就有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:41:11.353000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:41:16.795000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告細節的東西，因為我們公保是保險，有可能定期就要重新算費率。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:41:18.196000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:41:25+08:00","text":"事實上最好的方式是把它法定提到80%，你們照樣補助，就是百分之百實質津貼補助啊！","quality":0.771},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:41:25.321000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:41:27.582000+08:00","text":"你要人家生小孩就是這樣才有成果啊！","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:41:28.443000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:41:33.966000+08:00","text":"這個事情因為我們都是跟著性別平等工作法來的，所以反而要修應該從那邊開始。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:41:34.126000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:41:36.888000+08:00","text":"但是身為主管機關，我想你也可以往前去思考嘛！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:41:37.128000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:41:37.528000+08:00","text":"對，我知道這個事情。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:41:37.528000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:41:39.589000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:41:39.589000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:41:43.050000+08:00","text":"部長，我們都知道公務員的公保投保金額是用本俸計算，公務員有很多專業加給、職務加給，但本俸往往很低，有人剛開始還兩萬多、三萬多。","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:41:43.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:42:03.455000+08:00","text":"我們也必須知道，你要鼓勵年輕人生小孩，不是過了育齡年齡，所以相對他們的本俸一定在比較低的部分，雖然這次修法有說，如果保險本俸低於最低工資會補差額，但是如果超過呢？","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:42:03.915000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:42:04.855000+08:00","text":"因為有的很低嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:42:05.255000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:42:05.615000+08:00","text":"那如果超過的呢？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:42:05.635000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:42:06.996000+08:00","text":"你要有決心鼓勵生育，部長，我覺得至少兩個重點，本俸還是要調整，為什麼呢？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:42:07.016000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:42:08.436000+08:00","text":"因為公保的給付、育嬰留停津貼、退休金提撥都是根據本俸，剛剛林委員也提到，你都是根據本俸，你計算的基礎都是本俸。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:42:26.224000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:42:26.824000+08:00","text":"我們有考慮……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:42:26.824000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:42:27.824000+08:00","text":"本俸付啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:42:27.405000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:42:41.531000+08:00","text":"我其實之前在質詢也有說明，這10年來GDP的成長率大概94%，但是公職人員他們的調薪才14%，遠遠跟不上，所以本俸的部分我還是請部長能夠費心一下。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:42:42.251000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:42:53.857000+08:00","text":"至於剛剛我提到60%的保障，法定的百分比提到80%，也請你們好好努力，因為我們現在的重點是要鼓勵大家生養小孩，讓公務員沒有後顧之憂啦！好嗎？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:42:54.417000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:42:59.340000+08:00","text":"這個部分60%到80%，我可不可以在兩週內知道你們初步的研議結果呢？好。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:43:00.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:43:01.021000+08:00","text":"可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:43:01.021000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:43:05.564000+08:00","text":"可以，我們現在的差別只是說要不要入法啦！","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:43:06.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:43:06.404000+08:00","text":"補助歸補助啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:43:07.425000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:43:08.766000+08:00","text":"就是要入法才有保障啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:43:08.886000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:43:10.827000+08:00","text":"入法就有可能會調費率啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:43:10.947000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:43:11.327000+08:00","text":"讓他們安心養育。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:43:11.828000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:43:14.449000+08:00","text":"我就跟委員報告說，它有可能會調費率啦！","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:43:14.829000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:43:14.990000+08:00","text":"安心養育。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:43:16.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:43:29.500000+08:00","text":"最近賴總統終於醒悟，推出育兒大禮包，包含同事職代有津貼、人力調度有配套、老闆補人有資源，所以我要請教副秘書長跟部長，勞動部正努力往這個方向走，公務員體系要對齊嘛！","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:43:29.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:43:31.861000+08:00","text":"這個現在是政府最喜歡用的兩個字。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:43:32.622000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:43:50.320000+08:00","text":"根據現行的公務員加給給與辦法，公務員請假留停，現職同事代理要連續10天才能夠領取實務加給，但是很多家長需要的，有的時候是短期的、零星的、零散的部分，包括育兒減工時或短期請假。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:43:50.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:43:53.684000+08:00","text":"如果沒有滿10天的代理，那你不是要同事做功德嗎？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:43:55.526000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:43:55.526000+08:00","text":"這樣對嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:43:55.526000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:43:59.089000+08:00","text":"所以請問銓敘部，10天以上才有津貼的緊箍咒要不要拿掉？","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:44:00.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:44:05.974000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我想這個事情從另外一個角度來講，應該政府部門永遠都走在前面啦！","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:44:06.394000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:44:11.217000+08:00","text":"以前勞動部沒有修，我們就已經先有，只是說要連續10天嘛！","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:44:11.217000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:44:12.217000+08:00","text":"好，走在前面喔！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:44:12.217000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:44:13.217000+08:00","text":"這次也是喔！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:44:13.217000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:44:14.217000+08:00","text":"這次要趕快加油喔！","quality":0},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:44:11.397000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:44:16.981000+08:00","text":"現在因為有這個制度的話，我們就來看看有沒有需要，事實上政府部門還有另外一個獎勵的……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:44:16.981000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:44:18.282000+08:00","text":"10天也沒道理，10天都要快兩週了，以工作天來算。","quality":0},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:44:18.282000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:44:18.362000+08:00","text":"我們會繼續研議這個事情。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:44:18.422000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:44:19.422000+08:00","text":"不要叫人家做功德、叫人家彼此幫忙好嗎？","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:44:19.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:44:23.084000+08:00","text":"因為勞動部有在研議，只要幫忙代理育兒工時，可以按日取津貼，例如每天800元，所以我們是不是可以研議一下彈性津貼或績效獎勵？","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:44:23.404000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:44:42.394000+08:00","text":"副秘書長，考試院這次踏出了第一步，但不能只做半套，我們希望是針對公務人員職代10天的門檻放寬，以及對齊民間育兒職代津貼的機制。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:44:42.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:44:44.055000+08:00","text":"今天人總也有出席，我是不是請你們兩週內會同人總提出一份書面報告給我？","quality":0.562},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:44:44.075000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:44:44.435000+08:00","text":"如果機關認為我們請新人來幫忙，那也可以啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:44:44.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:45:05.632000+08:00","text":"那看你的配套是什麼，這樣可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:45:05.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:45:06.513000+08:00","text":"我想兩週內我們來提一個書面報告跟委員報告說……","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:45:06.513000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:45:07.513000+08:00","text":"你的研議方向……","quality":0},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:45:06.513000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:45:07.674000+08:00","text":"以前已經有這個制度了，現在這個制度的修正有沒有需要再作一點討論。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:45:07.674000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:45:14.328500+08:00","text":"到12月你算出來就知道了，絕對沒有10萬人啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:45:14.328500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:45:20.983000+08:00","text":"國家快滅種了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:45:20.983000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:45:28.967000+08:00","text":"現在還是麻煩部長，還有人總的陳素枝處長跟教育部任副處長，我一邊講好嗎？","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:45:28.967000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:45:43.474000+08:00","text":"因為時間……全國退休人員在今年6月已經陸續收到補發停改年金的重新審定函，銓敘部也表明最晚會在今年8月以前，完成補撥114年12月底到今年7月的差額。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:45:44.094000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:45:49.417000+08:00","text":"這件事本席要先給銓敘部一個肯定，當然我之前也問過要不要回溯到兩年，但今天我聚焦在另外一個部分。","quality":0.568},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:45:49.417000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:45:50.417000+08:00","text":"我看到行政院發言人李慧芝，在6月11日的記者會竟然說……莫名其妙！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:45:50.417000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:45:51.417000+08:00","text":"他說行政院目前沒有收到考試院的任何公文，他兩手一攤，還說希望等憲法法庭釋憲的結果出來，再作為行政執法的依據。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:45:51.417000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:45:52.417000+08:00","text":"那我現在就要請教了，先請教銓敘部，請問部長公文到底發了沒？","quality":0},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:45:52.417000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:45:53.417000+08:00","text":"我們6月8日發出公文給……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:45:50.097000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:45:50.137000+08:00","text":"6月幾號？6月8號？","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:45:50.137000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:46:19.852000+08:00","text":"我現在看起來是6月8號。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:46:19.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:46:20.072000+08:00","text":"他是6月11號，那發言人說假話啦！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:46:20.152000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:46:20.332000+08:00","text":"你如果講老實話，他就是說假話啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:46:20.332000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:46:21.332000+08:00","text":"這個我沒有辦法評論。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:46:20.352000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:46:20.472000+08:00","text":"6月11號他就說沒有啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:46:20.492000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:46:20.932000+08:00","text":"我們沒有收到公文啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:46:21.133000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:46:21.233000+08:00","text":"可以這樣嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:46:21.233000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:46:21.333000+08:00","text":"可以公然這樣嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:46:21.353000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:46:21.753000+08:00","text":"我再請問一下人總，人總有沒有收到公文？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳處長素枝","start":"2026-06-24T09:46:34.178000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:46:37.260000+08:00","text":"報告委員，給人事總處的公文有收到。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:46:38.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:46:40.662000+08:00","text":"好，那為什麼6月11號李慧芝說沒收到？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:46:40.822000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:46:41.843000+08:00","text":"是他推託還是你推託？","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:46:42.543000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:46:43.724000+08:00","text":"是他講老實話還是你講老實話？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"陳處長素枝","start":"2026-06-24T09:46:43.724000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:46:48.687000+08:00","text":"報告委員，因為受文者是行政院人事總處，並不是行政院。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:46:48.687000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:46:51.108000+08:00","text":"我們另外給……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:46:51.108000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:46:52.009000+08:00","text":"可以這樣子回答是不是？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:46:53.129000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:46:55.091000+08:00","text":"發言人可以不知道就隨便講話嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:46:55.091000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:46:56.752000+08:00","text":"說：我沒有收到，還要等憲法法庭！","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:46:57.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:47:07.971000+08:00","text":"委員，我跟你報告，我們都有發給所有的主管機關，所以也給各部會，也給行政院，應該是這樣子，所以他只是……總處代表的是總處收到這樣子。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:47:08.771000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:47:09.111000+08:00","text":"總處收到？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:47:09.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:47:11.592000+08:00","text":"這麼大的事，不知道就可以發言嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:47:11.592000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:47:12.633000+08:00","text":"發言人要好好做功課啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:47:14.229000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:47:15.871000+08:00","text":"陳處長，請問人總，當然你是收到了，還是現在才看到，那你會配合辦辦理嗎？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:47:15.871000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:47:15.971000+08:00","text":"通知各機關嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:47:15.971000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:47:16.371000+08:00","text":"還是扣著不辦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:47:16.371000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:47:16.712000+08:00","text":"還是要等什麼釋憲呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:47:16.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:47:16.772000+08:00","text":"你們會做嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:47:16.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:47:17.132000+08:00","text":"要釋憲嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳處長素枝","start":"2026-06-24T09:47:17.132000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:47:17.753000+08:00","text":"報告委員，人事總處收到是副本啦！","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:47:32.727000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:47:33.347000+08:00","text":"然後你要等釋憲嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:47:33.347000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:47:34.428000+08:00","text":"還是趕快辦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳處長素枝","start":"2026-06-24T09:47:34.428000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:47:36.810000+08:00","text":"我們就是依照行政院的政策執行，那當然……","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:47:37.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:47:38.691000+08:00","text":"政策是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:47:38.691000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:47:41.413000+08:00","text":"是要等釋憲還是現在辦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳處長素枝","start":"2026-06-24T09:47:41.413000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:47:43.054000+08:00","text":"對，就是依照行政院政策，依釋憲結果……","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:47:43.054000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:47:44.195000+08:00","text":"我聽不懂耶！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳處長素枝","start":"2026-06-24T09:47:44.195000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:47:45.496000+08:00","text":"也尊重銓敘部審查。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:47:45.496000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:47:47.057000+08:00","text":"就是不辦嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:47:47.057000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:47:48.618000+08:00","text":"等釋憲嗎？是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:47:48.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:47:49.238000+08:00","text":"你有法律基礎嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:47:49.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:48:01.108000+08:00","text":"立法院三讀通過的東西，你不遵守，你要等著一個不做功課的發言人講說還要等釋憲，這樣嗎？","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"陳處長素枝","start":"2026-06-24T09:48:01.108000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:48:04.229000+08:00","text":"我們就是針對相關的這個退撫法令的部分……","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:48:04.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:48:06.430000+08:00","text":"勇敢一點，對就是對，錯就是錯。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳處長素枝","start":"2026-06-24T09:48:06.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:48:08.551000+08:00","text":"都是尊重，依照行政院的政策執行。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:48:08.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:48:13.834000+08:00","text":"好，依照行政院，大家聽，全國國民都在聽這個質詢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:48:14.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:48:19.896000+08:00","text":"教育部任副處長，請問針對退休教師部分，教育部編列補發停砍年金的預算嗎？","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:48:19.896000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:48:19.956000+08:00","text":"發得出來嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:48:19.956000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:48:20.016000+08:00","text":"有編列嗎？夠嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"任副處長明坤","start":"2026-06-24T09:48:23.498000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:48:34.125000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這個不用預算，原來就在裡面，只是說原來節省下來的是挹注回來，所以它這沒有預算的問題。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:48:34.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:48:35.887000+08:00","text":"好，沒有預算問題表示發得出來。對。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:48:35.887000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:48:37.288000+08:00","text":"好，發得出來，謝謝你。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:48:38.528000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:48:48.795000+08:00","text":"銓敘部，剛剛行政院說要聲請釋憲，所以你們是贊成，你是支持行政院用釋憲拖延跟不買單立法院通過的法律作為嗎？","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:48:49.696000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:48:50.276000+08:00","text":"你是不是支持？","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:48:51.056000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:49:05.521000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，這不是支不支持，是釋憲案已經在進行了，我們已經提出釋憲案，但是我們還是依法行政，我們在依法行政的過程就是說，釋憲是一個程序，我們現在把該做的事情審定函發出去……","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:49:05.521000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:49:06.521000+08:00","text":"考試院跟行政院是平行的耶！","quality":0},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:49:05.981000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:49:12.023000+08:00","text":"然後8月1號以前就按照這個方向，那當然這中間過程還有釋憲在進行中，我想跟委員這樣報告。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:49:13.283000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:49:17.046000+08:00","text":"那你能不能承諾，今年8月1號差額的部分可不可以百分之百如期發放？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:49:17.046000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:49:21.328000+08:00","text":"因為我們審定函出去，機關就根據這個審定函進行。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:49:22.089000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:49:22.549000+08:00","text":"8月1號可以？","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:49:23.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:49:29.894000+08:00","text":"當然這裡面還是有釋憲的程序，但是如果釋憲程序都沒有任何狀況，當然就是按照這個程序進行。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:49:29.974000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:49:30.815000+08:00","text":"釋憲是行政院提的啊！","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:49:30.935000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:49:33.056000+08:00","text":"考試院也要跟著這個嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:49:33.056000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:49:33.056000+08:00","text":"違憲嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:49:33.056000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:49:33.817000+08:00","text":"我們考試院也有提釋憲。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:49:34.317000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:49:34.717000+08:00","text":"你也提釋憲？對。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:49:39.653000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:49:41.857000+08:00","text":"好，你今天好好跟所有公務員講你們要提釋憲。","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:49:41.857000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:49:44.883000+08:00","text":"不是，我們已經提了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:49:44.883000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:49:45.883000+08:00","text":"已經提了？","quality":0},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:49:45.883000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:49:46.883000+08:00","text":"已經提了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:49:46.446000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:49:48.409000+08:00","text":"憲法法庭大法官都不夠了，開什麼會！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:49:54.258000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:49:57.841000+08:00","text":"本席還要再替18萬名退休公教人員向銓敘部陳情，臺灣教育產業工會日前召開記者會，他們說銓敘部發出的重新審定通知書敷衍了事，失去了通知書的意義，對此我感同身受。","quality":0.761},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:49:57.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:50:00.403000+08:00","text":"很多退休公務人員苦苦等了半年，滿心期待打開這一份攸關自己年老生活的行政處分書，結果戴上老花眼鏡一看，發現竟然只是把112年所得替代率的舊數字直接抄過來，並不是實發的金額。拜託！","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:50:00.423000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:50:00.563000+08:00","text":"這種事你們也做得出來！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:50:24+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:50:33.785000+08:00","text":"這是銓敘部附上的Q&A，在問答當中是請退休人員自己計算是要乘以1.02還是1.04，於是退休公教人員就告訴我：「我都老花眼了，你還要我自己算噢！","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:50:34.445000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:50:35.686000+08:00","text":"」部長，為什麼會這樣呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:50:36.126000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:50:36.946000+08:00","text":"為什麼發生這樣的事呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:50:37.767000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:50:46.471000+08:00","text":"我們都是根據一向的做法，因為退休審定函是一個基礎，並不會變動，所以我們一定要把它跟112年實際已發出的審定函相比。","quality":0.74},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:50:47.192000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:50:59.838000+08:00","text":"因為退休金是會調整的，每一次調整都要根據審定函的基數，去乘以那個一點零幾，可是那些系統都會自動帶出來，也就是說在另外一個發放系統中，他到時候刷本子也完全不用自己計算。","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:51:00.078000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:51:01.199000+08:00","text":"部長，你在講的是處理的過程、思考的過程，但是對民眾跟公務員而言，國家難道不是一體的嗎？","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:51:05.501000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:51:09.705000+08:00","text":"政府明明就有「全國公教人員退休撫卹整合平臺」這個資訊系統，技術上你們已經把想要調整後的金額匯入平臺了，為什麼就不能再給當事人的處分書或通知書多加一個「115年實際發放金額」這個欄位呢？","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:51:09.705000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:51:10.046000+08:00","text":"為什麼這種便民的措施在行政程序上只做半套呢？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:51:10.066000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:51:10.406000+08:00","text":"為什麼要把換算的責任丟給曾經為國家勞心勞力的退休公務員身上呢？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:51:27.182000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:51:34.132000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，他們真的不用判斷，那個發放平臺最後會自動算出來，然後機關就會直接根據這個下去發放了。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:51:34.413000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:51:35.855000+08:00","text":"你就讓人家清楚一點，直接寫上去，幹嘛還要讓一堆人看不懂呢？","quality":0.308},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:51:36.295000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:51:37.137000+08:00","text":"真的是有一堆人看不懂啊！","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:51:38.679000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:51:39.260000+08:00","text":"這是法制作業，因為我審定作業就是發審定函啦！","quality":0.65},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:51:39.260000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:51:44.933000+08:00","text":"一大堆教授、醫師都看不懂。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:51:44.933000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:52:03.419000+08:00","text":"本席想具體要求，請銓敘部在1個月內研議，針對這18萬名退休公教人員重新核發，或提供一個能明確查閱真實實發退休金的通知機制，不要讓國家的一致性跟政府的公信力毀在一張語意模糊、做半套的審定函上好嗎？","quality":0.784},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:52:03.419000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:52:03.599000+08:00","text":"你可以答應嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:52:08.749000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:52:14.052000+08:00","text":"委員，我想大家到8月1號刷本子的時候就知道了。","quality":0.579},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:52:14.052000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:52:15.052000+08:00","text":"要讓人家看得懂啦！","quality":0.125},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:52:15.052000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:52:16.052000+08:00","text":"不然你發給現場的大家看。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:52:14.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:52:15.412000+08:00","text":"你還是要人去刷本子噢！","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T09:52:17.133000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:52:18.014000+08:00","text":"到8月1號每一個人都會入帳啊！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:52:19.935000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:52:26.398000+08:00","text":"下次對於那種語意模糊的東西，故意寫得學問很大，然後寫了三、四頁讓我都看不懂的東西，還寫了一大堆法條……你就直接告訴他要補給人家多少啊！","quality":0.633},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:52:27.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:52:28.939000+08:00","text":"你們有資料就告訴他啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:52:29.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:52:30.420000+08:00","text":"不要讓他自己算，這樣可以嗎？就是……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:52:32.142000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:52:34.427000+08:00","text":"反正將來一定還要再補我們真正通過的部分啦！","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:52:35.009000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:52:37.755000+08:00","text":"還有兩年的部分要補。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-06-24T09:52:37.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T09:52:38.657000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝各位、謝謝主席。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"主席（陳委員昭姿代）","start":"2026-06-24T09:52:39.157000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T09:52:42.871286+08:00","text":"接下來請翁曉玲委員進行詢答。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":292,"blocks":[["陳委員昭姿：（9時36分）謝謝主席。有請勞動部次長、銓敘部部長還有考試院吳副秘書長。"],["主席：有請3位。"],["吳副秘書長美紅：委員早。"],["陳委員昭姿：剛剛聽了諸位的報告，我想要了解目前已經存在的育兒津貼。我先請教勞動部次長，請問你們這個育兒津貼，因為是「育」的部分，你們剛剛的用詞都講到生育，但事實上我們現在在談育兒，就是養育，才會有幾個月的部分。請問你們發放的對象有適用收養的家庭嗎？收養孩子的人有沒有適用育兒津貼？有還是沒有？沒有就去檢討。你的精神是這樣嘛，要讓大家能夠去養小孩、願意養小孩，生當然是一個意願，但生完了很重要的是養，養到成年。你說不出來？都沒有？我幾十年前收養一個孩子，我完全沒有受惠，但是我OK的，我要告訴你們……沒有喔？這麼長的時間都沒辦法回答，主席，這個時間要扣掉。有沒有？"],["李次長健鴻：委員，如果是法定收養的話是可以的。"],["陳委員昭姿：現在收養都要法定，難道有人養一個孩子還這麼辛苦？養一輩子，你要納入喔！你要確定，不然你再給我一個報告好嗎？次長，就是說收養小孩……"],["李次長健鴻：經過法定程序收養的是可以的。"],["陳委員昭姿：但年紀還在規定範圍內的時候。"],["李次長健鴻：法定程序收養的……"],["陳委員昭姿：OK？有道理吧？是育兒嘛。"],["李次長健鴻：對。"],["陳委員昭姿：OK，謝謝。將來我倡議的代孕法案過了，也請你好好的思考、準備這件事情。"],["李次長健鴻：我們再來研究。"],["陳委員昭姿：委託夫妻如果透過代孕而有了小孩，這個孩子他要養，你要不要放在裡面？你要先去研議喔！不要等我這個法已經過了，然後你在那邊完全沒有公平的對待，可以嗎？那你先給我收養的部分，然後再來是代孕部分，好嗎？"],["李次長健鴻：我們來研究。"],["陳委員昭姿：一定要啊！收養就立刻要有答案啊！收養的部分我想這幾天內就請你給我一個答案，不給不公平啊！"],["李次長健鴻：我剛剛跟委員說明，只要法定程序收養的是可以適用的。"],["陳委員昭姿：現在都是依兒童福利法，收養都是非常嚴謹的，都是有證照的，能夠自己生的都沒有證照，這整個收養過程我們太清楚了，面談不曉得多少次，在法官面前，還要上課，還要健康檢查證明、良民證、收入證明、財產證明，太多過程了，這都是法定的程序好嗎？"],["李次長健鴻：是。"],["陳委員昭姿：你們漏掉的部分，顯然你們是漏掉。"],["李次長健鴻：但是我要跟委員補充說明，性別平等工作法的立法精神是希望父母要親自照顧小孩。"],["陳委員昭姿：是親自啊！收養小孩，已經收養他了，就是法定是他的孩子啊！主席，不好意思，他們如果連定義都不清楚，我這個時間都不算了，因為我今天還是有很重要的要談，要幫公務員講話。"],["李次長健鴻：我只是要補充說明這個立法意旨。"],["陳委員昭姿：沒有啦，你就要想看看嘛，關於收養孩子，我以前就一直在講這件事情，因為我收養孩子已經30年了，以前我們完全沒有被顧慮到，但事實上人家說好偉大、好偉大，我也不覺得偉大啦，這都是自己的意願，收養立刻補上去！養孩子嘛、育兒嘛，很多人就是不敢養才不生，好嗎？次長，我這樣講有道理吧？"],["李次長健鴻：就是法定程序收養都適用。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，這幾分鐘都……現在還有人偷小孩嗎？那是犯法的，你不要跟我一直講法定好嗎？兒童福利法，你去查查看。麻煩你，次長，這樣可以嗎？"],["李次長健鴻：是。"],["陳委員昭姿：然後請你準備，代孕法案通過以後，接下來你要怎麼處理。"],["李次長健鴻：我們來研究、來研究。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，謝謝、謝謝。也麻煩銓敘部部長跟我回答一樣的問題，好嗎？"],["施部長能傑：沒有錯，我們的制度都是跟著性別平等工作法跟就業保險法一樣的，所以我們的收養也可以……"],["陳委員昭姿：你意思是說收養都沒有喔？"],["施部長能傑：收養有啊！"],["陳委員昭姿：有？好，那就……"],["施部長能傑：我不要再講「依法」這個字眼，委員會覺得……"],["陳委員昭姿：次長、次長……"],["施部長能傑：就是一樣的制度啦！"],["陳委員昭姿：次長聽到，就是一樣啊！要一樣啊！養小孩很重要啊！生的放一邊、養的大如天啊！代孕法也請你準備好，謝謝、謝謝。次長請回。","首先我要對考試院這次公保法、任用法還有考試法的修法方向表示支持，少子女化講了這麼多年，我們看到很具體的一步，但是因為前進了一步，我們就看得再深遠一點。剛剛我們也做了報告，民眾黨黨團提出一個修法版本，我們希望把育兒留職停薪津貼的基準從現在的60%拉高到80%。請問副秘書長還有銓敘部長，你們基本上能夠支持這樣的版本嗎？現在可以回答嗎？"],["施部長能傑：現在實際上就已經加到20%了。"],["陳委員昭姿：是，部長，我知道這個部分，就是說事實上有，但是我們希望保障，法定的保障提高到80%。"],["施部長能傑：我知道委員的意思，希望把它放法裡面去。"],["陳委員昭姿：對。"],["施部長能傑：法裡面就有。跟委員報告細節的東西，因為我們公保是保險，有可能定期就要重新算費率。"],["陳委員昭姿：事實上最好的方式是把它法定提到80%，你們照樣補助，就是百分之百實質津貼補助啊！你要人家生小孩就是這樣才有成果啊！"],["施部長能傑：這個事情因為我們都是跟著性別平等工作法來的，所以反而要修應該從那邊開始。"],["陳委員昭姿：但是身為主管機關，我想你也可以往前去思考嘛！"],["施部長能傑：對，我知道這個事情。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，謝謝。部長，我們都知道公務員的公保投保金額是用本俸計算，公務員有很多專業加給、職務加給，但本俸往往很低，有人剛開始還兩萬多、三萬多。我們也必須知道，你要鼓勵年輕人生小孩，不是過了育齡年齡，所以相對他們的本俸一定在比較低的部分，雖然這次修法有說，如果保險本俸低於最低工資會補差額，但是如果超過呢？因為有的很低嘛！那如果超過的呢？你要有決心鼓勵生育，部長，我覺得至少兩個重點，本俸還是要調整，為什麼呢？因為公保的給付、育嬰留停津貼、退休金提撥都是根據本俸，剛剛林委員也提到，你都是根據本俸，你計算的基礎都是本俸。我們有考慮……"],["施部長能傑：本俸付啦！"],["陳委員昭姿：我其實之前在質詢也有說明，這10年來GDP的成長率大概94%，但是公職人員他們的調薪才14%，遠遠跟不上，所以本俸的部分我還是請部長能夠費心一下。至於剛剛我提到60%的保障，法定的百分比提到80%，也請你們好好努力，因為我們現在的重點是要鼓勵大家生養小孩，讓公務員沒有後顧之憂啦！好嗎？這個部分60%到80%，我可不可以在兩週內知道你們初步的研議結果呢？"],["施部長能傑：好。"],["陳委員昭姿：可以嗎？"],["施部長能傑：可以，我們現在的差別只是說要不要入法啦！"],["陳委員昭姿：補助歸補助啊！就是要入法才有保障啊！"],["施部長能傑：入法就有可能會調費率啦！"],["陳委員昭姿：讓他們安心養育。"],["施部長能傑：我就跟委員報告說，它有可能會調費率啦！"],["陳委員昭姿：安心養育。最近賴總統終於醒悟，推出育兒大禮包，包含同事職代有津貼、人力調度有配套、老闆補人有資源，所以我要請教副秘書長跟部長，勞動部正努力往這個方向走，公務員體系要對齊嘛！這個現在是政府最喜歡用的兩個字。根據現行的公務員加給給與辦法，公務員請假留停，現職同事代理要連續10天才能夠領取實務加給，但是很多家長需要的，有的時候是短期的、零星的、零散的部分，包括育兒減工時或短期請假。如果沒有滿10天的代理，那你不是要同事做功德嗎？這樣對嗎？所以請問銓敘部，10天以上才有津貼的緊箍咒要不要拿掉？"],["施部長能傑：跟委員報告，我想這個事情從另外一個角度來講，應該政府部門永遠都走在前面啦！以前勞動部沒有修，我們就已經先有，只是說要連續10天嘛！"],["陳委員昭姿：好，走在前面喔！這次也是喔！這次要趕快加油喔！"],["施部長能傑：現在因為有這個制度的話，我們就來看看有沒有需要，事實上政府部門還有另外一個獎勵的……"],["陳委員昭姿：10天也沒道理，10天都要快兩週了，以工作天來算。"],["施部長能傑：我們會繼續研議這個事情。"],["陳委員昭姿：不要叫人家做功德、叫人家彼此幫忙好嗎？因為勞動部有在研議，只要幫忙代理育兒工時，可以按日取津貼，例如每天800元，所以我們是不是可以研議一下彈性津貼或績效獎勵？副秘書長，考試院這次踏出了第一步，但不能只做半套，我們希望是針對公務人員職代10天的門檻放寬，以及對齊民間育兒職代津貼的機制。今天人總也有出席，我是不是請你們兩週內會同人總提出一份書面報告給我？如果機關認為我們請新人來幫忙，那也可以啊！那看你的配套是什麼，這樣可以嗎？"],["施部長能傑：我想兩週內我們來提一個書面報告跟委員報告說……"],["陳委員昭姿：你的研議方向……"],["施部長能傑：以前已經有這個制度了，現在這個制度的修正有沒有需要再作一點討論。"],["陳委員昭姿：到12月你算出來就知道了，絕對沒有10萬人啦！國家快滅種了。","現在還是麻煩部長，還有人總的陳素枝處長跟教育部任副處長，我一邊講好嗎？因為時間……全國退休人員在今年6月已經陸續收到補發停改年金的重新審定函，銓敘部也表明最晚會在今年8月以前，完成補撥114年12月底到今年7月的差額。這件事本席要先給銓敘部一個肯定，當然我之前也問過要不要回溯到兩年，但今天我聚焦在另外一個部分。我看到行政院發言人李慧芝，在6月11日的記者會竟然說……莫名其妙！他說行政院目前沒有收到考試院的任何公文，他兩手一攤，還說希望等憲法法庭釋憲的結果出來，再作為行政執法的依據。那我現在就要請教了，先請教銓敘部，請問部長公文到底發了沒？"],["施部長能傑：我們6月8日發出公文給……"],["陳委員昭姿：6月幾號？6月8號？"],["施部長能傑：我現在看起來是6月8號。"],["陳委員昭姿：他是6月11號，那發言人說假話啦！你如果講老實話，他就是說假話啦！"],["施部長能傑：這個我沒有辦法評論。"],["陳委員昭姿：6月11號他就說沒有啊！我們沒有收到公文啊！可以這樣嗎？可以公然這樣嗎？","我再請問一下人總，人總有沒有收到公文？"],["陳處長素枝：報告委員，給人事總處的公文有收到。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，那為什麼6月11號李慧芝說沒收到？是他推託還是你推託？是他講老實話還是你講老實話？"],["陳處長素枝：報告委員，因為受文者是行政院人事總處，並不是行政院。"],["施部長能傑：我們另外給……"],["陳委員昭姿：可以這樣子回答是不是？發言人可以不知道就隨便講話嗎？說：我沒有收到，還要等憲法法庭！"],["施部長能傑：委員，我跟你報告，我們都有發給所有的主管機關，所以也給各部會，也給行政院，應該是這樣子，所以他只是……總處代表的是總處收到這樣子。"],["陳委員昭姿：總處收到？這麼大的事，不知道就可以發言嗎？發言人要好好做功課啊！","陳處長，請問人總，當然你是收到了，還是現在才看到，那你會配合辦辦理嗎？通知各機關嗎？還是扣著不辦？還是要等什麼釋憲呢？你們會做嗎？要釋憲嗎？"],["陳處長素枝：報告委員，人事總處收到是副本啦！"],["陳委員昭姿：然後你要等釋憲嗎？還是趕快辦？"],["陳處長素枝：我們就是依照行政院的政策執行，那當然……"],["陳委員昭姿：政策是什麼？是要等釋憲還是現在辦？"],["陳處長素枝：對，就是依照行政院政策，依釋憲結果……"],["陳委員昭姿：我聽不懂耶！"],["陳處長素枝：也尊重銓敘部審查。"],["陳委員昭姿：就是不辦嗎？等釋憲嗎？"],["陳處長素枝：是。"],["陳委員昭姿：你有法律基礎嗎？立法院三讀通過的東西，你不遵守，你要等著一個不做功課的發言人講說還要等釋憲，這樣嗎？"],["陳處長素枝：我們就是針對相關的這個退撫法令的部分……"],["陳委員昭姿：勇敢一點，對就是對，錯就是錯。"],["陳處長素枝：都是尊重，依照行政院的政策執行。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，依照行政院，大家聽，全國國民都在聽這個質詢。","教育部任副處長，請問針對退休教師部分，教育部編列補發停砍年金的預算嗎？發得出來嗎？有編列嗎？夠嗎？"],["任副處長明坤：跟委員報告，這個不用預算，原來就在裡面，只是說原來節省下來的是挹注回來，所以它這沒有預算的問題。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，沒有預算問題表示發得出來。"],["任副處長明坤：對。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，發得出來，謝謝你。","銓敘部，剛剛行政院說要聲請釋憲，所以你們是贊成，你是支持行政院用釋憲拖延跟不買單立法院通過的法律作為嗎？你是不是支持？"],["施部長能傑：我跟委員報告，這不是支不支持，是釋憲案已經在進行了，我們已經提出釋憲案，但是我們還是依法行政，我們在依法行政的過程就是說，釋憲是一個程序，我們現在把該做的事情審定函發出去……"],["陳委員昭姿：考試院跟行政院是平行的耶！"],["施部長能傑：然後8月1號以前就按照這個方向，那當然這中間過程還有釋憲在進行中，我想跟委員這樣報告。"],["陳委員昭姿：那你能不能承諾，今年8月1號差額的部分可不可以百分之百如期發放？"],["施部長能傑：因為我們審定函出去，機關就根據這個審定函進行。"],["陳委員昭姿：8月1號可以？"],["施部長能傑：當然這裡面還是有釋憲的程序，但是如果釋憲程序都沒有任何狀況，當然就是按照這個程序進行。"],["陳委員昭姿：釋憲是行政院提的啊！考試院也要跟著這個嗎？違憲嗎？"],["施部長能傑：我們考試院也有提釋憲。"],["陳委員昭姿：你也提釋憲？"],["施部長能傑：對。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，你今天好好跟所有公務員講你們要提釋憲。"],["施部長能傑：不是，我們已經提了。"],["陳委員昭姿：已經提了？"],["施部長能傑：已經提了。"],["陳委員昭姿：憲法法庭大法官都不夠了，開什麼會！","本席還要再替18萬名退休公教人員向銓敘部陳情，臺灣教育產業工會日前召開記者會，他們說銓敘部發出的重新審定通知書敷衍了事，失去了通知書的意義，對此我感同身受。很多退休公務人員苦苦等了半年，滿心期待打開這一份攸關自己年老生活的行政處分書，結果戴上老花眼鏡一看，發現竟然只是把112年所得替代率的舊數字直接抄過來，並不是實發的金額。拜託！這種事你們也做得出來！","這是銓敘部附上的Q&A，在問答當中是請退休人員自己計算是要乘以1.02還是1.04，於是退休公教人員就告訴我：「我都老花眼了，你還要我自己算噢！」部長，為什麼會這樣呢？為什麼發生這樣的事呢？"],["施部長能傑：我們都是根據一向的做法，因為退休審定函是一個基礎，並不會變動，所以我們一定要把它跟112年實際已發出的審定函相比。因為退休金是會調整的，每一次調整都要根據審定函的基數，去乘以那個一點零幾，可是那些系統都會自動帶出來，也就是說在另外一個發放系統中，他到時候刷本子也完全不用自己計算。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，你在講的是處理的過程、思考的過程，但是對民眾跟公務員而言，國家難道不是一體的嗎？政府明明就有「全國公教人員退休撫卹整合平臺」這個資訊系統，技術上你們已經把想要調整後的金額匯入平臺了，為什麼就不能再給當事人的處分書或通知書多加一個「115年實際發放金額」這個欄位呢？為什麼這種便民的措施在行政程序上只做半套呢？為什麼要把換算的責任丟給曾經為國家勞心勞力的退休公務員身上呢？"],["施部長能傑：跟委員報告，他們真的不用判斷，那個發放平臺最後會自動算出來，然後機關就會直接根據這個下去發放了。"],["陳委員昭姿：你就讓人家清楚一點，直接寫上去，幹嘛還要讓一堆人看不懂呢？真的是有一堆人看不懂啊！"],["施部長能傑：這是法制作業，因為我審定作業就是發審定函啦！"],["陳委員昭姿：一大堆教授、醫師都看不懂。本席想具體要求，請銓敘部在1個月內研議，針對這18萬名退休公教人員重新核發，或提供一個能明確查閱真實實發退休金的通知機制，不要讓國家的一致性跟政府的公信力毀在一張語意模糊、做半套的審定函上好嗎？你可以答應嗎？"],["施部長能傑：委員，我想大家到8月1號刷本子的時候就知道了。"],["陳委員昭姿：要讓人家看得懂啦！不然你發給現場的大家看。你還是要人去刷本子噢！"],["施部長能傑：到8月1號每一個人都會入帳啊！"],["陳委員昭姿：下次對於那種語意模糊的東西，故意寫得學問很大，然後寫了三、四頁讓我都看不懂的東西，還寫了一大堆法條……你就直接告訴他要補給人家多少啊！你們有資料就告訴他啊！不要讓他自己算，這樣可以嗎？"],["施部長能傑：就是……"],["陳委員昭姿：反正將來一定還要再補我們真正通過的部分啦！還有兩年的部分要補。好，謝謝各位、謝謝主席。"],["主席（陳委員昭姿代）：接下來請翁曉玲委員進行詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":62,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-36-20","speakers":["翁曉玲","王安祥","林沛祥","陳昭姿","沈發惠","范雲","莊瑞雄","張雅琳","許宇甄","洪孟楷","蔡其昌","吳宗憲","傅崐萁","林倩綺"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2026-06-24"],"gazette_id":"1155501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155501_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請考試院秘書長、銓敘部部長、行政院人事行政總處、教育部、勞動部針對「我國育嬰留\n職停薪實施成效與擴大育嬰津貼政策」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、併案審查(一)委員羅智強\n等19人擬具「公教人員保險法第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員黃健豪等18人擬具「公教\n人員保險法第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「公教人員保險法第十二\n條及第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(四)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「公教人員保險法部分條文修正草\n案」案、(五)委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「公教人員保險法第三十五條及第五十一條條文修正草案」\n案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1155501_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}