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謝謝主席那麼在這邊首先先請群敘部施部長然後人事行政總處還有教育部的代表施部長 人總處 教育部代表"},{"start":20.998,"end":39.515,"text":"市部長好那麼我想剛剛這個陳昭志委員其實已經幫我先問了我一開始要質詢的議題就是有關於最近很多的退休的公教人員陸陸續續都收到了退休金的新的審定函那麼但是呢"},{"start":45.666,"end":60.465,"text":"已經很多的這個退休公教人員都說這實在是看不懂那個退休審定書裡面到底是寫的這金額數字對不對而且看了看去就是跟一百一十二年當時的或是他們一開始拿那個退休審審定函的原來的本縫計算的是一模一樣的"},{"start":65.03,"end":83.206,"text":"在這樣的情況之下為什麼還要拖了半年之久然後才又發了一個跟之前一模一樣的審定函這個其實已經引起了很多退休公教人員很不滿那再加上就是審定函書後面的一些提醒的一些注意的事項其實大家也是看得烏薩薩就連"},{"start":84.687,"end":110.318,"text":"我自己看我都還解讀了半天實在是不知道全序部發了這個退休審定函你們當時在整個敘述的過程當在整個敘述的這段內容裡面有沒有讓別人看一看到底看不看得懂當部長有講說這是法制作業這是法制的這個用語可是實際上對於我拿到這份退休從這個新版的這個退休審定函裡面我第一個要核對就是"},{"start":111.195,"end":135.764,"text":"我现在拿的这个退休金跟之前有没有差别而且应该是要更多因为113年12年都有调薪那这个数字有没有反映在这个审定函里面就算是你们的计算基础原来是根据当时每个退休人员退休时候的那个退休退休当年的那个本俸的这个基础你们也可以在旁边做一个"},{"start":137.225,"end":154.954,"text":"就是列兩欄然後同時把這個正確的數字提供出來這就像剛剛陳昭知委員講的是不是應該要將10發10領的金額也要做一個列表這樣的話才不會讓公教人員有所誤會說怎麼回事這次的這個年改這個停侃怎麼停侃之後還越改越少"},{"start":159.679,"end":184.799,"text":"我這裡已經接到非常非常多這個退休公教人員打電話來澄清這個事情那當然本席其實在6月10號我也有請學術部這裡趕快緊急又發了一個新聞稿你們是在6月16號才用新聞稿來澄清稍微說得比較清楚一點但是仍然是讓很多的公教人員"},{"start":186.223,"end":212.291,"text":"花很多的這個時間還要去看還要理解所以你的本席建議說你們是不是可以再做一個更清楚的QA或是圖卡來給我們所有的退休公教人員解惑那現在是我們看到就是在教育人員的部分是蠻多的這個協會不管是全教產台教產或全教育總會他們那裡會自己做圖卡來做些說明但是我認為像教育部"},{"start":213.052,"end":225.488,"text":"人事行政總署還有全序部這邊是不是應該也要做一個更清楚的說明用一個比較簡單的方式告訴大家說接下來他們領的退休金到底實際上的金額是多少"},{"start":226.846,"end":240.973,"text":"我跟委員報告其實我們在部裡面的臉書已經有這些圖卡那可能宣傳還不夠啦那這個事情我們在會後的時候呢也再來看看這怎麼樣給公教同仁我相信沒有什麼人去看這個學術部的臉書啦那我們這邊有很多的委員都有上百萬粉絲的也可以拜託他們幫忙宣傳或是民眾黨 國民黨的委員以及其他一些網紅或是各個機關部會 工會我覺得大家都可以來幫忙做這件事情盡可能的把"},{"start":256.3,"end":282.063,"text":"正確的資訊要傳達給所有的這個退休公教人員讓大家安心這件事很重要而不是部長剛剛說的就是之後去刷本子刷了本子之後就知道說他使領的這個退休金額是多少這樣的說法坦白說不負責任而且如果說依法論法來講的話是不是要從刷本子的看到實際的金額那一刻起才叫做行政處分生效"},{"start":282.893,"end":303.376,"text":"我跟委員報告因為當初在年改的時候回到之前年改就先核定一個那個審定函就是以那個數字後來我們不管怎麼調整我們都不會再去更改那個審定函那個數字所以同樣的邏輯我是跟委員我們這次也是因為回到一百一十重新做這個一個處分所以我們就一百一十二年這個作為"},{"start":304.537,"end":330.724,"text":"不過布朗坦白說當時107年那個時候是比較清楚因為那時候的本縫各方面可能就是比較清楚的數字之後因為這些年來其實因為我們的退休金也有調整嘛隨著薪水有調整所以有調整那麼我還是要講就是很多你們做的這個一法行政所謂行政處分或是行政的事項你要回到就是說是不是夠接地氣"},{"start":331.744,"end":355.496,"text":"是不是退休的公教人員能夠理解你們所做的這個作為否則的話你們花了很多心思可是最後卻得來一陣罵我覺得這部分的話並不是很好再加上如果說到時候真的有退休的公教人員他發現他刷的金額就是明顯有錯"},{"start":356.937,"end":382.406,"text":"那你是不是應該允許他還有一個多一個月的時間的救濟期間而不是以收到審定函的那個這個救濟期間開始起算好這部分我希望局局部回去要去研議喔因為你們現在是收到推出新審定函然後你們上面有給他們預知說是收到這個公文之後的一個月內若有任何問題的話要提起申訴或申付"},{"start":383.554,"end":409.919,"text":"可是對大家來講我根本不知道那個數字到底對不對要等到實際上刷本子之後才會知道嘛如果說按照部長的邏輯那麼如果說真的有發生這個狀況我認為說應該要給予當事人一個合理的一個法律救濟期間好的那接下來呢就是回到剛剛講的那個行政院可能不買單不贊同權序部說8月1號就開始停止扣減這個"},{"start":412.454,"end":415.597,"text":"這個停止扣減退休金同時呢對於要補發1月到8月的這個退休金的預扣差額行政院看起來也不會買單那麼就這個部分來講考試院跟權需部有沒有跟行政院好好的去溝通這件事情"},{"start":429.411,"end":449.708,"text":"民主行政院是不是不會買單這個政策我真的不清楚但是就這部裡面的態度就是我們應該發出審定案吧講清楚那這個就依法行政往前走那如果沒有就是我們也提了視線這個過程都沒有發生就是以8月1號我們預估現在大概8月1號每個服務每個發放機關就根據你的是"},{"start":451.33,"end":477.831,"text":"是我知道現在考試院 權序部在這個方面來講的話本身是給予你們肯定至少就是說你們還是依法行政那知道在釋憲程序 釋憲結果沒有出來之前該怎麼做就要怎麼做對不對好 那人事行政總處麻煩今天是處長嗎還是是不是可以請你回去轉達給行政院要聽聽人家權序部考試院的這個法律見解他們的做法不是行政院自己瞞幹啊"},{"start":479.901,"end":494.872,"text":"說不想發就不想發這行政院這個卓榮泰已經有太多違憲亂政的事蹟不要在這件事情上又搞鬼現在已經是很多的退休公教人員看到卓榮泰看到行政院的發言非常非常不滿"},{"start":496.82,"end":512.546,"text":"考試院全序部還有很多的這個這個教育部現在也都紛紛的發給了這個退休公教人員的新的審定函結果竟然可以說行政院說我可能不打算發可以這樣做嗎"},{"start":525.771,"end":554.614,"text":"是 所以因為考試院詮釋部是是這個法的主管機關他們都已經重新發了審定函所以呢 該停扣就停扣該退還至少今年一到八月的退休金的一扣金額就要跟著一起做而不是說行政院又有自己的另外一套做法報告委員 沒有啊 行政院沒有另外一套做法只是說我們就是尊重事先的結果來執行"},{"start":556.001,"end":578.628,"text":"那事件結果如果說到明後年這些大法官根本沒有補齊啊是怎麼樣你們已經知道說五位大法官會在8月1號之前就會做出違憲的判決嗎是嗎 是有這樣子風聲嗎這我們不知道這五人大法官到現在為止做的每一號的判決都是違反正當法律程序的都是違憲的違憲判決都是違憲的判決啦 應該這麼說"},{"start":584.304,"end":605.113,"text":"所以希望這個行政院不要和全國的退休軍公教人員唱反調對你們來講一點好處都沒有好那接下來我要再談的就是有關於議員津貼的問題在這裡還想請教部長那麼我們知道其實這些年尤其從你們的報告裡面可以看到真正申請"},{"start":607.774,"end":616.398,"text":"育嬰跟育孫的這個數據其實坦白說也不是很多啦申請育嬰的人數雖然是有提升但是申請育孫的這數據竟然只有個位數112年只有申請一個人當然因為當時的辦法裡面所設定的條件是嚴格的"},{"start":627.282,"end":653.584,"text":"所以要申請遇孫假可能也不是很容易那現在我們因為大幅放寬了所以希望未來可能有更多的公教人員他們可以來申請遇孫假但是就回到我們今天為什麼會提出這個相關的修法因為以目前的狀況來講他提了申請了假但是他實際上他沒有辦法得到任何今天補助申請遇孫的人"},{"start":654.725,"end":681.339,"text":"遇孫假的人他不可能像是申請育嬰假或育兒假的這群公教人員他可以有像至少八個月的津貼所以呢就這個部分來講的話其實本席是認為說這個法應該要修那也看到群衆部基本上也支持這個法不過因為你們今天在寫的報告裡面有講說這公營事業跟私立學校等不同的族群的人士上會被排除在外"},{"start":682.919,"end":704.668,"text":"會嗎?為什麼會?就我們所提的法案裡面當然是包含所有的公務人員的被保險人他們有另外的法源,他的規定沒有包括遇孫他的流停沒有遇孫,他不是適用我們這一套公務人員但是他們在公保要全部一起適用,等於他源頭沒有遇孫這個字"},{"start":705.828,"end":708.451,"text":"那這樣的話是不是應該要建議就是一定要配包裹式的修法要配套修法 不能夠把公益事業跟私立學校等等這些不同族群的工作夥伴排除在外因為那個涉及到私校的 涉及到公益"},{"start":722.367,"end":742.102,"text":"如果真的要做應該回到因為還有私校啊因為大量的是私校公教保險包括私校所以也就是說他們要一併的修法嗎或者是說還是回去性供法因為這個制度本來都是從性供法做母法來的也可以從性供法裡面去處理應該是性別平等工作法是勞動部的主管法規是嗎是那所以就是說可以請正次"},{"start":752.393,"end":763.009,"text":"所以從這個角度來看的話是不是性別平等工作法應該要一併修法這個才會就是涵蓋到所有應該受保障的人受保障的族群"},{"start":764.188,"end":781.897,"text":"委員是說要擴大到哪一部分就是包含私立學校的老師以及公營事業的員工他們應該都要適用性別工作平等法然後同時在未來申請預算價的時候他們也可以得申請到足額的津貼"},{"start":783.74,"end":807.396,"text":"現在性供法的適用對象只要是受僱者都可以適用的受僱者可是受僱者是包含勞工吧但是對於就是說他是適用於公務人員保險法的這一群人來說有包含在內嗎所有只要是受僱者有任何關係都是適用性供法的那軍公教的機關如果他是受僱者也算的"},{"start":809.284,"end":838.117,"text":"就這個部分說實在話 但是我們信封法勞動部這邊是不是應該開個會討論一下到底要修什麼法要把這套配套措施整個的要包裹式簡單來說是要進行包裹式的修法就像是我們上次本席一開始提出說可以放寬遇孫嫁的時候那時候學術部說不用修法結果後來又衍生說其實有好多的法其實要應該一併同時修才不會有"},{"start":839.569,"end":858.8,"text":"萬一漏案的狀況那現在今天自然就學習部有提出這個方案不要說我們修了公務人員保險法的相關條文之後最後呢讓私立學校還有公營事業的相關的族群的這些工作夥伴沒有辦法能夠申請到預算價"},{"start":861.78,"end":879.567,"text":"現在性供法 因為性供法是以希望父母親親自照顧小孩為立法意旨所以在育孫這塊確實現行性供法規定是還沒有含括所以要檢討嘛是不是要檢討請問部長是不是之後修性別公平的法就好了"},{"start":881.688,"end":895.393,"text":"這個議題是 我知道委員的意思長期以來 委員說要遇孫 我們都往這邊走但我跟委員真的報告這個事情我很坦白報告 這個事情是複雜的議題因為勞動體系的性工法是適用絕大部分是勞動體系勞動體系現在並沒有遇孫這個概念"},{"start":897.594,"end":918.408,"text":"他只有育兒但是我們剛剛講的公益事業跟私立學校的老師他們本身也是受到公務人員保險法的一種是修性公安如果國家有這個政策一種就是個別去修譬如像說教育部要去修他的那個私校什麼請問教育部這邊要修嗎因為私校"},{"start":920.287,"end":943.914,"text":"就是教師請教規則 他就要在他的教師請教規則因為老師是歸教育部管的那國營事業那部分就要回到國營事業大概有就是公務人員請教規則嗎教育部是教師請教規則啊然後那公務人員呢 對不起 公營事業的各個公營事業主管 經濟部財政部他們就要自己去處理"},{"start":944.514,"end":953.236,"text":"所以我們法制是分開的啦就我們有一種方式是分開的法制處理好 這個部分坦白說比較複雜我想我們今天就不要佔用質詢時間那我想請學訓部這邊可不可以給我一份報告說明這個背景如果說是要把私立學校跟公營事業單位員工就一併涵蓋在裡面因為他們都是受到公教人員保險法理念所規範的對象但是我們現在修了這個法卻沒有辦法涵蓋去保護到這群人"},{"start":970.78,"end":978.425,"text":"那所以到底還要再修什麼法是請情緒部給我一份報告然後也請教育部還有人事行政總處吧是不是這裡一併提說未來要朝這個方向做的話要修什麼法才能夠避其功於一役好嗎"},{"start":986.051,"end":1007.43,"text":"給委員這個報告也會提到說他的他可能碰到一些議題是什麼我想這是一個比較完整的報告好然後最後我還有一個議題想要請教這個勞動部次長就是說因為行政院現在已經有推動說未來有這個待薪減工時可以值待的補助政策但是呢對於這個部分其實現在是300人以下"},{"start":1008.911,"end":1024.677,"text":"你們未來是針對200人以下的企業輔助12歲以下子女的勞工每天可以提早一小時下班不減薪然後政府還可以加碼每天補助800元的職務代理人津貼但是因為洪森漢部長有說這項措施將採取不採法律強制而且是走勞資合議行政獎勵的計畫來辦理那現在本席就是困惑的就是說這個勞資合議未來會不會"},{"start":1037.941,"end":1063.039,"text":"流于变成是雇主口头拒绝的党键牌因为必须老板跟这个员工要达成合意然后才可以有这个职务代理而且呢你们现在规划每天800元的职务代理人的津贴是拨入到企业账户那你们怎么能够保证这个企业账户进了企业账户的钱之后这个钱可以真正的去给这个职务代理人"},{"start":1063.851,"end":1079.145,"text":"那委員現在還沒有給這個職務代理的這個同事勞工那個津貼我們未來如果順利的話明年一月還會開始給所以剛剛委員講的那個是一千塊那個確實給中小企業雇主那現在還沒有"},{"start":1080.426,"end":1097.154,"text":"現在那個一千塊是給雇主的事實上我的意思是講說因為現在就是靠勞資合意嘛但是你勞資合意未來會不會就成為反而是老闆的一個藉口反正我跟我的員工已經講了啊那就是說今天事情很忙所以不能提前一小時下班那麼同時現在說的要給這個八百元的職務代理金"},{"start":1101.656,"end":1113.631,"text":"他不是直接發給那個被那個真正代理的人的身上沒有 我們未來會給那個代理的同事勞工會給他好 那我希望能夠朝這個方向去辦理是是是好 那以上 好 謝謝好 謝謝翁委員 謝謝各機關代表"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}