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我們的任用法28條是最上位的法源啦28條之一啦 第二項有一個上面的法源然後根據這個我們訂了一個留庭辦法那留庭辦法裡面就應該是比較大的空間我們來做一些留庭辦法第五條第一項啦第一項裡面的第一款啦 規定說養育三足歲以下的子女"},{"start":280.663,"end":300.344,"text":"就這樣文字就是這樣你如果養育30歲以下的子女你可以得申請留職停薪但是我剛剛的問題是你得按日你可以按日申請而且申請次數沒有限制這個是哪一個法定規定我沒有反對這個我贊成而且我覺得很棒但是我現在要問的是法定依據"},{"start":301.803,"end":320.468,"text":"因為我們辦法沒有限制所以我們就做出這樣一個一個彈性的空間啦這樣彈性處理是不對的 部長應該要有法令 你要提供法令去為什麼我這樣子提呢你們至少要有一個作業的指引到底這個單日的申請我要在幾天之前提出"},{"start":321.408,"end":348.516,"text":"或者是我臨時的狀況我要什麼樣的條件我可以在臨時請這些我們目前都沒有任何的的辦法沒有任何的指引各個機關各行其事到底要在幾天之前提出你這個單日的育嬰假的申請而且你申請你臨時臨時說我今天小孩生病臨時請有什麼樣的條件什麼樣的程序我們都沒有統一的指引沒有規定部長"},{"start":350.031,"end":362.15,"text":"有關於軍職的部分其實軍人的軍職的部分反而國防部做得比你們好國防部都做得很清楚國防部他們在這個軍職他們就有明定而且他們就已經有甚至連專用的立稿都有了"},{"start":363.168,"end":381.57,"text":"但是我們其他的公務人員其他的教師我們其他各個機關規定因為我們沒有統一的指引我剛所講的按日申請而且可以不限制數完全都沒有任何的法令沒有任何的函式沒有任何的這個行政規則所以各個機關各行其事"},{"start":384.967,"end":391.571,"text":"我們注意到這個事情所以我們部裡面目前正在已經徵詢完了啦我們還要再修就是要再修這個原來的那個流停辦法就會把這些"},{"start":396.468,"end":423.23,"text":"操作的細則就在琉璃辦法裡面有一致性的說明我們確實正在處理中現在已經1月實施 現在已經7月你們到現在這幾個月的時間我們來 已經會過各機關表示意見了這個部分我們還是要有應該要有這個一致性包括合理的通知因為你這個機關你如果沒有一個統一的指引我這個機關每個機關它所遇到的行政狀況不一樣"},{"start":424.091,"end":442.706,"text":"你要有合理的通知原則還有什麼樣的突發狀況有例外的規定這些都應該要有相關的法律依據好不好這個部分就是我今天第一個要跟部長來談的要兼顧育兒需求跟機關的業務運作的情況我們一定應該要有法律依據的好不好這個是第一個問題"},{"start":445.308,"end":470.362,"text":"再來針對我們今天我們等一下我們要並案審查的有關於公教人員保險法的相關的條文這個部分請問這個部長我們現在有這個我們之前部有一個草案,草案送到考試院,考試院現在在會前行政院是不是?對請問你們這個法案什麼時候公告的?"},{"start":470.902,"end":488.36,"text":"我們6月11號院會通過什麼時候公告不是通過我是說什麼時候公告讓大家知道看到你們的條文內容什麼時候公告我們法例沒有預告因為慣例上修法沒有預告但是你們什麼時候公告公告把這個法令公告讓大家看了"},{"start":489.578,"end":509.896,"text":"我們確實沒有在網站上公告這件事有啦有啦昨天下午四點半公告的啦之前沒有啦我要講的是之前沒有有啦就是昨天下午四點半啦今天要審查了你們昨天下午四點半讓助理只有半個小時的時間可以準備啦如果要準備就一定要加班啦"},{"start":511.268,"end":533.692,"text":"我的意思是說我們在送到考試院之前沒有放在網上之前齁 之前我們辦公室跟你們索取說你們是不是有草案 你們說有 但是不方便提供布板不方便提供 我們跟考試院這個來索資 考試院說我現在在會前行政院不方便提供然後到昨天下午四點半你們才公告"},{"start":536.055,"end":561.409,"text":"你們這個是什麼考量?為什麼會這樣做?我回去了解一下,真的很抱歉啦這個事情那你們現在這樣會賢的話,大概預計什麼時候會賢完成?那就要看行政院什麼時候回來我們人事行政總署能不能回答一下,預計什麼時候會完成會賢?包法委員那個公保法的修正案,明天提院會討論明天提院會討論?是,我們就會及時會賢送到立法院好,謝謝那這個齁"},{"start":565.964,"end":591.766,"text":"這個我想我針對我們這次我後來我我們昨天確實加班的看了我們的法案看了我們考試院行政院的這個草案這個我們這個整個版本大概修正有幾個修正重點我看大概四個修正重點第一個就是把過去的育嬰後面加個瓜胡育兒讓這個育嬰跟育兒的爭議把它用這樣的方式來法律上統一育嬰瓜號育兒這是第一個修法重點"},{"start":592.947,"end":612.382,"text":"第二個就是我們延長這個育嬰的瘤子停性的這個進貼齁從六歲延長到七歲對不對三歲啦本來的三歲啦延長到這個七歲值啦延長對本來對本來就是原來到六歲值嘛現在延長到七歲原來到三歲啦"},{"start":614.967,"end":638.758,"text":"現在的規定是3歲那配合性工法就會延長到未滿7歲之規定原本就是說草案修正草案在育兒留職停薪適用子女年齡延長至6歲以下期間是該子女7歲之規定留職停薪津貼到該子女7歲為止這是第二個重點第三個就是"},{"start":640.605,"end":651.493,"text":"這次討論一個很大的重點就是有關於這個津貼給付的月數我們原本六個月是我們原本的做法這個我們把這個"},{"start":655.185,"end":672.454,"text":"這個給付的月數我們用6加3的方式就是你如果雙親同時同時這個同時育嬰我們就讓你再加3個月用6加3的方式但是目前委員很多的提案草案是直接就加9個月直接加12個月或加到12個月"},{"start":673.354,"end":695.641,"text":"這個你們六加三是你們第三個重點第四個重點就是有關於這個留職聽信的這個這個低於最低法最低工資的部分做調整大概就這幾個所以比較大概會如果真的我們進行這個這個逐條討論的時候我想真正會遇到比較大的問題大概就會是剛剛我所講的這個有關於"},{"start":699.123,"end":721.955,"text":"大概有兩個問題一個就是有關育嬰津貼6加3到底我們委員提出來草案大部分是直接把它變成9個月甚至有延長到12個月那我們為什麼要採取6加3這樣的方式而不做直接延長這部分一定要部長說明不然到時候我們委員的草案都是直接9個月我現在簡單說我們都是配合"},{"start":723.656,"end":739.627,"text":"跟那個性供法加上就業保險法一致性的寫法一致性的寫法這是因為是那一致性的寫法所以我們認為這一方面是一致性的寫法一方面是我們認為這個那個當初這個一致性的寫法6加之所以6加3就是"},{"start":740.347,"end":763.679,"text":"有政策上面 法律政策上面鼓勵雙親共同雙親共同照顧這樣子的意涵在內背後的意涵是這樣的對 背後的意涵是這樣 鼓勵雙親所以我們還是 我也是認為說我們應該要支持我們的願板這個6加3的部分那另外還有一個部分就是現行的育嬰津貼我們目前現行是到"},{"start":764.699,"end":787.06,"text":"八成啦齁但是八成裡面事實上我們是薪資的六成那另外有二十趴的部分我們是由公務預算來支應用公務預算來補發這個育嬰留子金貼對不對有二十趴對沒錯那現在我們委員修法的版本直接在法律上面就直接把它規定成八十趴"},{"start":788.101,"end":807.706,"text":"為什麼我們願綁我們不贊成直接調整為80%我們為什麼還是認為應該由60%來支付這個薪資然後另外20%用公務預算這個理由要請你說這主要是因為公保是一個必須要投保完以後我們要去計算費率的"},{"start":808.908,"end":829.734,"text":"那我們原來就是用費業概念計算就60%是有公保存在那20%由政府來補貼所以不會涉及費力的定期的精算跟變動如果涉及保險的準備金這些都不會涉及如果直接就是說通通是由保險準備金來負擔的話那就一定要定期"},{"start":830.194,"end":838.296,"text":"需要去精算他就會對公保的財務他的提撥費率還有這個全體保險人的權益整個都會受到影響主要是有不同的保險人可能不同的看法所以我們那時候之所以會採取說在疫情流行期間我們支付只支付六成的薪資但是我們認為六成不夠政府用公務預算再補20%最主要是希望我們不希望說因為我們調整到80%去影響到整體"},{"start":857.362,"end":873.986,"text":"這個保險的包括保險的準備金包括這個整個提撥率包括全體的這個被保險人的權益對不對所以我在這邊是是希望說這個我們要講清楚了因為我們委員大部分的提案都是直接就是改成八成那如果這八成再加上我們公務預算二成那就百分之百了"},{"start":875.652,"end":893.123,"text":"對不對所以這部分我想在我們修法討論的時候我希望說我們這部裡面能夠把這樣子立場講清楚同時我們又要鼓勵用留職挺薪的方式鼓勵育兒同時我們也要兼顧保險的整體財務上的衝擊"},{"start":898.886,"end":908.554,"text":"希望說我們未來如果有機會在主要審查的時候我們能夠把我們部的法案的立場精神說清楚而且我們希望說能夠朝這個方向來走好不好 好 知道謝謝 謝委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:11:54.508000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:11:55.649000+08:00","text":"主席，我們先請勞動部次長。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-24T10:11:55.649000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T10:11:56.649000+08:00","text":"請次長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李次長健鴻","start":"2026-06-24T10:11:56.649000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T10:11:57.649000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:11:57.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:11:57.010000+08:00","text":"次長好。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:12:05.337000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:12:11.561000+08:00","text":"我先提一個問題，就是剛才質詢的時候您的回答，在此我來跟你探討。","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:12:13.642000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:12:32.808000+08:00","text":"剛才陳昭姿委員有提到關於我們今天所討論的公教人員保險法，或者是這些相關育嬰留職停薪的規定。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:12:33.869000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:12:39.491000+08:00","text":"他特別提到有關養子女，也就是收養子女的部分。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:12:41.351000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:13:05.043000+08:00","text":"我請問次長，目前這些相關的規定、法令，有關於育嬰留職停薪還有公教人員保險法裡面，是否有養子女的特別排除規定，或者是限縮這些規定只適用於婚生子女的相關規定？","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:13:05.203000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:13:05.423000+08:00","text":"有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李次長健鴻","start":"2026-06-24T10:13:07.195000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:13:09.597000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，現在性別平等工作法並沒有排除收養的部分。","quality":0.542},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:13:11.158000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:13:12.539000+08:00","text":"沒有相關的特別規定？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李次長健鴻","start":"2026-06-24T10:13:12.659000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:13:13.500000+08:00","text":"沒有排除。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:13:13.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:13:27.070000+08:00","text":"如果沒有相關的特別規定，按照民法第一千零七十七條第一項的規定，有關於養子女與養父母之間親屬關係，除法律另有規定之外，與婚生子女同。","quality":0.883},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:13:28.164000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:13:38.329000+08:00","text":"也就是說，你剛剛講的，這些規定都沒有特別的、特殊的排除，收養子女的部分也沒有特別規定只限縮在婚生子女。","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:13:39.529000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:13:46.573000+08:00","text":"如果沒有這樣規定的話，按照民法這一條，就是適用所有的婚生子女跟收養的子女，對不對？是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:13:47.153000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:13:47.733000+08:00","text":"就這麼簡單的問題，剛剛為什麼回答得支支吾吾的？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"李次長健鴻","start":"2026-06-24T10:13:52.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:13:56.200000+08:00","text":"剛剛一開始沒有聽得那麼清楚陳昭姿委員的問題。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:13:56.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:14:14.347000+08:00","text":"也就是沒有相關排除的規定或是針對婚生子女有特殊限縮規定的話，按照民法就是適用所有這些相關的法律關係，除了法律另有規定之外，與婚生子女同，所以這些育嬰留職停薪等等，當然包括收養的子女。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:14:15.828000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:14:17.769000+08:00","text":"這個有什麼好難以回答的呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:14:19.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:14:20.044000+08:00","text":"我這樣講對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李次長健鴻","start":"2026-06-24T10:14:20.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:14:21.745000+08:00","text":"沒有錯。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:14:22.425000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:14:25.987000+08:00","text":"應該要搞清楚這個法律體系，所以怎麼會來問這種問題？","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:14:25.987000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:14:40.433000+08:00","text":"除非我們認為育嬰留職停薪必須、應該排除收養子女，我們就來訂一個特別規定，除非想要排除，不然依照現行規定，一定包括收養子女的，對不對？對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:14:40.433000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:14:41.053000+08:00","text":"好，次長請回。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:14:41.713000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:14:44.574000+08:00","text":"主席，請銓敘部。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-24T10:14:45.655000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:14:45.675000+08:00","text":"請部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T10:14:45.675000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T10:14:51.586000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:14:51.586000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:14:51.846000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:14:53.868000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:15:15.745000+08:00","text":"我們在去年9月有針對單日的育嬰留職停薪，做了政策性的規定，就是在9月4號拍板宣布育嬰留職停薪可以單日申請，軍公教也適用，而且從今年的元旦（1月1號）開始實施，對不對？","quality":0.843},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T10:15:18.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:15:19.833000+08:00","text":"對，政府部門是這樣子的。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:15:21.574000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:15:31.035000+08:00","text":"也就是去年9月宣布之後，在今年1月1日開始實施有關於育嬰留職停薪可以單日申請。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:15:31.415000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:15:41.037000+08:00","text":"我要請問，現在有關於公務人員跟教師，是得按日申請，且申請次數沒有限制，這是我們現在的政策嗎？對。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:15:43.078000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:15:44.478000+08:00","text":"我們具體的法律依據是哪一條？","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:15:48.838000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:15:49.699000+08:00","text":"是按照哪一個法令？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:15:50.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:15:51.961000+08:00","text":"有沒有函釋或者是行政規則？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T10:15:51.961000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:15:52.742000+08:00","text":"我們有公務人員留停辦法。","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:15:53.242000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:15:54.423000+08:00","text":"留停辦法裡面有規定可以按日申請，或者是申請沒有次數限制嗎？","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T10:16:01.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:16:14.943000+08:00","text":"應該這樣講，我們的任用法第二十八之一第二項有一個最上位的法源，根據這個我們定了一個留停辦法，留停辦法裡面應該就有比較大的空間，讓我們來做一些調整。","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:16:15.243000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:16:39.579000+08:00","text":"留停辦法第五條第一項第一款規定「養育三足歲以下子女」，文字就是這樣，表示如果養育三足歲以下子女，得申請留職停薪；但我剛剛的問題是，可以按日申請，而且申請次數沒有限制，請問這是哪一個法令規定的？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:16:40.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:16:44.344000+08:00","text":"我並沒有反對這個措施，我是贊成這個措施，但是我現在要問的是法令依據。","quality":0.71},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T10:16:45.803000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:16:51.044000+08:00","text":"因為我們的辦法沒有予以限制，所以我們就做出這樣一個彈性的空間。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:16:52.405000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:16:57.986000+08:00","text":"部長，其實這樣彈性處理是不對的，你應該要提供法令依據，為什麼我這樣子提呢？","quality":0.788},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:16:58.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:17:31.295000+08:00","text":"你們至少要有一個作業指引，包括單日的申請要在幾天之前提出，或者是要有什麼樣的條件就可以臨時申請等等，像這些我們目前都沒有任何的辦法、沒有任何的指引，各個機關各行其是，到底要在幾天之前提出單日育嬰假的申請，而且今天若小孩生病臨時要申請，要有什麼樣的條件、什麼樣的程序，我們都沒有統一的指引、沒有規定。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:17:32.496000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:17:46.130000+08:00","text":"部長，其實軍人、軍職的部分反而國防部做得比你們好、做得很清楚，國防部在軍職的部分有明定，甚至連專用例稿都有了。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:17:47.168000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:18:05.530000+08:00","text":"但是其他的公務人員、其他的教師、其他各個機關的規定，因為沒有統一的指引，就是我剛剛所講的按日申請，而且可以不限次數，完全都沒有任何法令、沒有任何函釋、沒有任何行政規則，所以各個機關各行其是。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T10:18:08.967000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:18:26.033000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員指教，其實我們有注意到這個事情，目前我們部裡面已經徵詢完了，我們還要再修一下原來的留停辦法，屆時這些操作細則在留停辦法裡面就會有一致性的說明，我們確實正在處理中。","quality":0.747},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:18:27.994000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:18:32.218000+08:00","text":"1月開始實施，現在已經7月，到現在已經有好幾個月的時間了。","quality":0.708},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T10:18:32.218000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:18:36.301000+08:00","text":"對，我們會來努力，目前已經會過各機關表示意見了。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:18:36.882000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:18:56.338000+08:00","text":"這個部分我們還是應該要有一致性，包括合理的通知，因為機關如果沒有一個統一的指引，每個機關所遇到的行政狀況不一樣，所以你要有合理的通知原則，還有什麼樣的突發狀況有例外規定，這些都應該要有相關的法令依據，好不好？好。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:18:56.678000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:19:06.706000+08:00","text":"這個部分是我今天第一個要跟部長談的，要兼顧育兒需求跟機關的業務運作情況，我們一定、應該要有法令依據，這個是第一個問題。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T10:19:06.706000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T10:19:09.308000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:19:09.308000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:19:33.021000+08:00","text":"再來，關於今天併案審查的公教人員保險法相關條文，請問部長，之前部裡有一個草案，該草案已送到考試院，而考試院現在正在會銜行政院，是不是？對。","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:19:33.021000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:19:34.342000+08:00","text":"請問你們這個法案是什麼時候公告的？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T10:19:34.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:19:38.085000+08:00","text":"我們6月11號院會通過……","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:19:38.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:19:43.311000+08:00","text":"我不是問什麼時候通過，我是問什麼時候公告讓大家知道，也就是看到你們的條文內容？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T10:19:43.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:19:47.395000+08:00","text":"我們這個法律沒有預告，因為慣例上修法沒有預告。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:19:47.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:19:52.159000+08:00","text":"但是你們什麼時候把這個法令公告讓大家看到？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T10:19:53.578000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:19:57.101000+08:00","text":"我們確實沒有在網站上公告這部分。有啦！","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:19:59.663000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:20:00.484000+08:00","text":"昨天下午4點半！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T10:20:00.484000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T10:20:01.484000+08:00","text":"後來才放……","quality":0},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:20:01.205000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:20:02.126000+08:00","text":"昨天下午4點半公告的啦！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T10:20:02.306000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:20:02.886000+08:00","text":"之前沒有啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T10:20:03.006000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:20:04.388000+08:00","text":"我要講的是之前沒有。有啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:20:05.028000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:20:13.675000+08:00","text":"就是昨天下午4點半，今天要審查了，你們昨天下午4點半，讓助理只有半個小時的時間可以準備，如果要準備就一定要加班。","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T10:20:15.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:20:18.492000+08:00","text":"我的意思是我們在送到考試院之前沒有放在網站上。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:20:19.533000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:20:37.671000+08:00","text":"之前我們辦公室跟你們索資，問你們是不是有草案，你說有，但是不方便提供，部版不方便提供；我們跟考試院索資，考試院說他現在會銜行政院，不方便提供，然後到昨天下午4點半你們才公告。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:20:40.055000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:20:42.236000+08:00","text":"你們是基於什麼考量、為什麼會這樣做？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T10:20:44.097000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:20:46.078000+08:00","text":"委員，我回去了解一下，對於這件事情，我真的很抱歉。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:20:48.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:20:50.741000+08:00","text":"你們現在會銜的話，預計什麼時候會銜完成？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:20:50.741000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T10:20:51.741000+08:00","text":"有沒有辦法回答？","quality":0},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T10:20:50.881000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:20:52.282000+08:00","text":"那就要看行政院什麼時候……","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:20:52.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:20:57.605000+08:00","text":"人事行政總處能不能回答一下，預計什麼時候會完成會銜？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳處長素枝","start":"2026-06-24T10:20:57.845000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:21:01.627000+08:00","text":"報告委員，公保法的修正案明天提院會討論。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:21:01.627000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:21:02.408000+08:00","text":"明天提院會討論？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳處長素枝","start":"2026-06-24T10:21:02.408000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:21:04.829000+08:00","text":"是，我們就會即時會銜送到立法院。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:21:05.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:21:05.389000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:21:11.545000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:21:44.313000+08:00","text":"後來我們昨天確實加班看了考試院送行政院的這個草案，整個版本大概有幾個修正重點，我看大概有4個修正重點：第一個就是把過去的「育嬰」後面加個括弧修正為育「嬰（兒）」，讓育嬰跟育兒的爭議用這樣的方式在法律上統一，修正為「嬰（兒）」，這是第一個修法重點；第二個是延長育嬰留職停薪的津貼，從6歲延長到7歲，對不對？","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T10:21:44.793000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:21:49.337000+08:00","text":"3歲，從本來的3歲延長到7歲止。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:21:51.598000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:21:55.902000+08:00","text":"對，本來是到6歲止，現在延長到7歲止。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T10:21:55.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:22:02.509000+08:00","text":"原來到3歲，現在的規定是3歲，配合性工法延長到……","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:22:04.229000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:22:04.590000+08:00","text":"該子女滿7歲止的規定嘛？對啦！","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:22:05.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:22:31.530000+08:00","text":"原本修正草案說育兒留職停薪適用子女年齡延長至6歲以下，期間至該子女滿7歲止之規定，留職停薪津貼至該子女滿7歲為止，這是第二個重點；第三個是這次討論一個很大的重點，就是有關於津貼給付的月數。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:22:31.530000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:23:07.918000+08:00","text":"我們原本的做法是把給付月數用6加3的方式，就是雙薪如果同時育嬰，我們就讓你再加3個月，用6加3的方式，但是目前委員很多的提案草案是直接就加9個月、直接加12個月，所以6加3是你們第三個重點；第四個重點是有關於留職停薪津貼如低於最低法定工資的部分做調整，大概就這幾個。","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:23:12.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:23:35.429000+08:00","text":"如果我們進行逐條討論的時候，我想真正會遇到比較大的問題，大概會是剛剛我所講的兩個問題，第一個是有關育嬰津貼給付月數6加3，委員提出來的草案大部分是直接把它變成9個月，甚至有的延長到12個月。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:23:36.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:23:43.393000+08:00","text":"我們為什麼要採取6加3的方式而不是直接延長，這部分請部長一定要說明，不然到時候說我們委員的草案都是直接9個月。","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T10:23:44.434000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:23:50.698000+08:00","text":"我現在簡單說明，我們都是配合性工法加上就業保險法一致性的寫法。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:23:50.818000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:23:51.499000+08:00","text":"一致性的寫法？","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T10:23:52.359000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:23:53.540000+08:00","text":"對，因為是一致性的寫法。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:23:53.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:24:11.491000+08:00","text":"所以這一方面是一致性的寫法，一方面是我們認為當初這個一致性的寫法「6加3」，就是在法律政策上面鼓勵雙親共同照顧這樣子的意涵在內。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T10:24:11.491000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:24:12.831000+08:00","text":"沒錯，背後的意涵是這樣。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:24:13.131000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:24:20.935000+08:00","text":"對，背後的意涵是鼓勵雙親共同照顧，所以我們認為應該要支持院版6加3的部分。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:24:21.976000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:24:44.074000+08:00","text":"另外還有一個部分就是現行的育嬰津貼，現行是到八成，但是八成裡面，事實上是薪資的六成，另外20%的部分是由公務預算支應，用公務預算來補發育嬰留職停薪津貼，對不對？有20%。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T10:24:44.954000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:24:45.955000+08:00","text":"對，沒錯。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:24:46.476000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:24:56.382000+08:00","text":"現在委員修法的版本是直接在法律上面規定成80%，為什麼院版不贊成直接調整為80%？","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:24:56.642000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:25:04.164000+08:00","text":"為什麼還是認為應該由60%來支付薪資，然後另外20%用公務預算支應？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:25:05.664000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:25:07.685000+08:00","text":"這個理由要請你說明。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T10:25:07.685000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:25:22.891000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，主要是因為公保投保完以後，我們必須要去計算費率，我們原來就是用費率的概念計算，60%是由公保出來，20%由政府補貼，所以不會涉及費率的定期精算跟變動……","quality":0.814},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:25:23.611000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:25:26.732000+08:00","text":"不會涉及保險的準備金，這些都不會涉及？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T10:25:27.152000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:25:34.854000+08:00","text":"對，都不會涉及，如果直接通通由保險準備金負擔的話，那就一定要定期、需要去精算，甚至可能……","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:25:35.274000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:25:35.594000+08:00","text":"公保的財務、他的提撥費率還有……","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T10:25:35.594000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T10:25:36.594000+08:00","text":"提撥費率可能會有變化……","quality":0},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:25:35.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:25:36.295000+08:00","text":"全體保險人的權益整個都會受到影響。","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T10:25:36.295000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:25:37.895000+08:00","text":"主要是不同的保險人可能有不同的看法。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:25:37.935000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:26:07.892000+08:00","text":"所以我們那時候之所以在育嬰留職期間，採取只支付六成的薪資……但是我們認為六成不夠，政府用公務預算再補20%，最主要是因為我們不希望……如果我們調整到80%會影響到整體的被保險人，包括保險的準備金、包括整個提撥率、包括全體被保險人的權益，對不對？對。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:26:07.892000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:26:20.793000+08:00","text":"所以我在這邊認為我們要講清楚，因為委員大部分的提案都是直接改成八成，如果這八成再加上我們公務預算二成，那就百分之百了，對不對？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:26:20.793000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:26:26.536000+08:00","text":"所以這個部分，我們在修法討論的時候，我希望部裡面能夠把立場講清楚。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:26:28.257000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:26:37.123000+08:00","text":"我們要用留職停薪的方式鼓勵育兒，同時我們也要兼顧保險整體的財務狀況及對財務造成的衝擊。","quality":0.756},{"speaker":"沈委員發惠","start":"2026-06-24T10:26:43.387000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:26:51.954000+08:00","text":"我們未來如果有機會逐條審查的時候，能夠把部的法案的立場精神說清楚，而且我們希望能夠朝這個方向來走，好不好？","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T10:26:52.034000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:26:52.554000+08:00","text":"好，知道，謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-24T10:26:53.054000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T10:27:13.625429+08:00","text":"謝謝沈委員，不過看起來沈委員的處境跟我一樣，我要求部會提供預告法案，卻一直拖延，希望考試院、銓敘部不要向行政院看齊了，他們的做法不好，該什麼時候提供就趕快提供。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-24T10:27:13.925429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T10:27:22.782571+08:00","text":"我們這些委員們大家都很認真，希望能夠早點拜讀你們所提的法案，好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-24T10:27:23.082571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T10:27:24.796857+08:00","text":"希望下次改進。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-24T10:27:25.096857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T10:27:27.954000+08:00","text":"接下來請范雲委員發言。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":507,"blocks":[["沈委員發惠：（10時11分）主席，我們先請勞動部次長。"],["主席：請次長。"],["李次長健鴻：委員好。"],["沈委員發惠：次長好。我先提一個問題，就是剛才質詢的時候您的回答，在此我來跟你探討。剛才陳昭姿委員有提到關於我們今天所討論的公教人員保險法，或者是這些相關育嬰留職停薪的規定。他特別提到有關養子女，也就是收養子女的部分。我請問次長，目前這些相關的規定、法令，有關於育嬰留職停薪還有公教人員保險法裡面，是否有養子女的特別排除規定，或者是限縮這些規定只適用於婚生子女的相關規定？有沒有？"],["李次長健鴻：跟委員報告，現在性別平等工作法並沒有排除收養的部分。"],["沈委員發惠：沒有相關的特別規定？"],["李次長健鴻：沒有排除。"],["沈委員發惠：如果沒有相關的特別規定，按照民法第一千零七十七條第一項的規定，有關於養子女與養父母之間親屬關係，除法律另有規定之外，與婚生子女同。也就是說，你剛剛講的，這些規定都沒有特別的、特殊的排除，收養子女的部分也沒有特別規定只限縮在婚生子女。如果沒有這樣規定的話，按照民法這一條，就是適用所有的婚生子女跟收養的子女，對不對？"],["李次長健鴻：是。"],["沈委員發惠：就這麼簡單的問題，剛剛為什麼回答得支支吾吾的？"],["李次長健鴻：剛剛一開始沒有聽得那麼清楚陳昭姿委員的問題。"],["沈委員發惠：也就是沒有相關排除的規定或是針對婚生子女有特殊限縮規定的話，按照民法就是適用所有這些相關的法律關係，除了法律另有規定之外，與婚生子女同，所以這些育嬰留職停薪等等，當然包括收養的子女。這個有什麼好難以回答的呢？我這樣講對不對？"],["李次長健鴻：沒有錯。"],["沈委員發惠：應該要搞清楚這個法律體系，所以怎麼會來問這種問題？除非我們認為育嬰留職停薪必須、應該排除收養子女，我們就來訂一個特別規定，除非想要排除，不然依照現行規定，一定包括收養子女的，對不對？"],["李次長健鴻：對。"],["沈委員發惠：好，次長請回。主席，請銓敘部。"],["主席：請部長。"],["施部長能傑：委員好。"],["沈委員發惠：部長好。我們在去年9月有針對單日的育嬰留職停薪，做了政策性的規定，就是在9月4號拍板宣布育嬰留職停薪可以單日申請，軍公教也適用，而且從今年的元旦（1月1號）開始實施，對不對？"],["施部長能傑：對，政府部門是這樣子的。"],["沈委員發惠：也就是去年9月宣布之後，在今年1月1日開始實施有關於育嬰留職停薪可以單日申請。我要請問，現在有關於公務人員跟教師，是得按日申請，且申請次數沒有限制，這是我們現在的政策嗎？"],["施部長能傑：對。"],["沈委員發惠：我們具體的法律依據是哪一條？是按照哪一個法令？有沒有函釋或者是行政規則？"],["施部長能傑：我們有公務人員留停辦法。"],["沈委員發惠：留停辦法裡面有規定可以按日申請，或者是申請沒有次數限制嗎？"],["施部長能傑：應該這樣講，我們的任用法第二十八之一第二項有一個最上位的法源，根據這個我們定了一個留停辦法，留停辦法裡面應該就有比較大的空間，讓我們來做一些調整。"],["沈委員發惠：留停辦法第五條第一項第一款規定「養育三足歲以下子女」，文字就是這樣，表示如果養育三足歲以下子女，得申請留職停薪；但我剛剛的問題是，可以按日申請，而且申請次數沒有限制，請問這是哪一個法令規定的？我並沒有反對這個措施，我是贊成這個措施，但是我現在要問的是法令依據。"],["施部長能傑：因為我們的辦法沒有予以限制，所以我們就做出這樣一個彈性的空間。"],["沈委員發惠：部長，其實這樣彈性處理是不對的，你應該要提供法令依據，為什麼我這樣子提呢？你們至少要有一個作業指引，包括單日的申請要在幾天之前提出，或者是要有什麼樣的條件就可以臨時申請等等，像這些我們目前都沒有任何的辦法、沒有任何的指引，各個機關各行其是，到底要在幾天之前提出單日育嬰假的申請，而且今天若小孩生病臨時要申請，要有什麼樣的條件、什麼樣的程序，我們都沒有統一的指引、沒有規定。","部長，其實軍人、軍職的部分反而國防部做得比你們好、做得很清楚，國防部在軍職的部分有明定，甚至連專用例稿都有了。但是其他的公務人員、其他的教師、其他各個機關的規定，因為沒有統一的指引，就是我剛剛所講的按日申請，而且可以不限次數，完全都沒有任何法令、沒有任何函釋、沒有任何行政規則，所以各個機關各行其是。"],["施部長能傑：謝謝委員指教，其實我們有注意到這個事情，目前我們部裡面已經徵詢完了，我們還要再修一下原來的留停辦法，屆時這些操作細則在留停辦法裡面就會有一致性的說明，我們確實正在處理中。"],["沈委員發惠：1月開始實施，現在已經7月，到現在已經有好幾個月的時間了。"],["施部長能傑：對，我們會來努力，目前已經會過各機關表示意見了。"],["沈委員發惠：這個部分我們還是應該要有一致性，包括合理的通知，因為機關如果沒有一個統一的指引，每個機關所遇到的行政狀況不一樣，所以你要有合理的通知原則，還有什麼樣的突發狀況有例外規定，這些都應該要有相關的法令依據，好不好？"],["施部長能傑：好。"],["沈委員發惠：這個部分是我今天第一個要跟部長談的，要兼顧育兒需求跟機關的業務運作情況，我們一定、應該要有法令依據，這個是第一個問題。"],["施部長能傑：好，謝謝委員。"],["沈委員發惠：再來，關於今天併案審查的公教人員保險法相關條文，請問部長，之前部裡有一個草案，該草案已送到考試院，而考試院現在正在會銜行政院，是不是？"],["施部長能傑：對。"],["沈委員發惠：請問你們這個法案是什麼時候公告的？"],["施部長能傑：我們6月11號院會通過……"],["沈委員發惠：我不是問什麼時候通過，我是問什麼時候公告讓大家知道，也就是看到你們的條文內容？"],["施部長能傑：我們這個法律沒有預告，因為慣例上修法沒有預告。"],["沈委員發惠：但是你們什麼時候把這個法令公告讓大家看到？"],["施部長能傑：我們確實沒有在網站上公告這部分。"],["沈委員發惠：有啦！昨天下午4點半！"],["施部長能傑：後來才放……"],["沈委員發惠：昨天下午4點半公告的啦！"],["施部長能傑：之前沒有啦！我要講的是之前沒有。"],["沈委員發惠：有啦！就是昨天下午4點半，今天要審查了，你們昨天下午4點半，讓助理只有半個小時的時間可以準備，如果要準備就一定要加班。"],["施部長能傑：我的意思是我們在送到考試院之前沒有放在網站上。"],["沈委員發惠：之前我們辦公室跟你們索資，問你們是不是有草案，你說有，但是不方便提供，部版不方便提供；我們跟考試院索資，考試院說他現在會銜行政院，不方便提供，然後到昨天下午4點半你們才公告。你們是基於什麼考量、為什麼會這樣做？"],["施部長能傑：委員，我回去了解一下，對於這件事情，我真的很抱歉。"],["沈委員發惠：你們現在會銜的話，預計什麼時候會銜完成？有沒有辦法回答？"],["施部長能傑：那就要看行政院什麼時候……"],["沈委員發惠：人事行政總處能不能回答一下，預計什麼時候會完成會銜？"],["陳處長素枝：報告委員，公保法的修正案明天提院會討論。"],["沈委員發惠：明天提院會討論？"],["陳處長素枝：是，我們就會即時會銜送到立法院。"],["沈委員發惠：好，謝謝。後來我們昨天確實加班看了考試院送行政院的這個草案，整個版本大概有幾個修正重點，我看大概有4個修正重點：第一個就是把過去的「育嬰」後面加個括弧修正為育「嬰（兒）」，讓育嬰跟育兒的爭議用這樣的方式在法律上統一，修正為「嬰（兒）」，這是第一個修法重點；第二個是延長育嬰留職停薪的津貼，從6歲延長到7歲，對不對？"],["施部長能傑：3歲，從本來的3歲延長到7歲止。"],["沈委員發惠：對，本來是到6歲止，現在延長到7歲止。"],["施部長能傑：原來到3歲，現在的規定是3歲，配合性工法延長到……"],["沈委員發惠：該子女滿7歲止的規定嘛？"],["施部長能傑：對啦！"],["沈委員發惠：原本修正草案說育兒留職停薪適用子女年齡延長至6歲以下，期間至該子女滿7歲止之規定，留職停薪津貼至該子女滿7歲為止，這是第二個重點；第三個是這次討論一個很大的重點，就是有關於津貼給付的月數。我們原本的做法是把給付月數用6加3的方式，就是雙薪如果同時育嬰，我們就讓你再加3個月，用6加3的方式，但是目前委員很多的提案草案是直接就加9個月、直接加12個月，所以6加3是你們第三個重點；第四個重點是有關於留職停薪津貼如低於最低法定工資的部分做調整，大概就這幾個。如果我們進行逐條討論的時候，我想真正會遇到比較大的問題，大概會是剛剛我所講的兩個問題，第一個是有關育嬰津貼給付月數6加3，委員提出來的草案大部分是直接把它變成9個月，甚至有的延長到12個月。我們為什麼要採取6加3的方式而不是直接延長，這部分請部長一定要說明，不然到時候說我們委員的草案都是直接9個月。"],["施部長能傑：我現在簡單說明，我們都是配合性工法加上就業保險法一致性的寫法。"],["沈委員發惠：一致性的寫法？"],["施部長能傑：對，因為是一致性的寫法。"],["沈委員發惠：所以這一方面是一致性的寫法，一方面是我們認為當初這個一致性的寫法「6加3」，就是在法律政策上面鼓勵雙親共同照顧這樣子的意涵在內。"],["施部長能傑：沒錯，背後的意涵是這樣。"],["沈委員發惠：對，背後的意涵是鼓勵雙親共同照顧，所以我們認為應該要支持院版6加3的部分。另外還有一個部分就是現行的育嬰津貼，現行是到八成，但是八成裡面，事實上是薪資的六成，另外20%的部分是由公務預算支應，用公務預算來補發育嬰留職停薪津貼，對不對？有20%。"],["施部長能傑：對，沒錯。"],["沈委員發惠：現在委員修法的版本是直接在法律上面規定成80%，為什麼院版不贊成直接調整為80%？為什麼還是認為應該由60%來支付薪資，然後另外20%用公務預算支應？這個理由要請你說明。"],["施部長能傑：跟委員報告，主要是因為公保投保完以後，我們必須要去計算費率，我們原來就是用費率的概念計算，60%是由公保出來，20%由政府補貼，所以不會涉及費率的定期精算跟變動……"],["沈委員發惠：不會涉及保險的準備金，這些都不會涉及？"],["施部長能傑：對，都不會涉及，如果直接通通由保險準備金負擔的話，那就一定要定期、需要去精算，甚至可能……"],["沈委員發惠：公保的財務、他的提撥費率還有……"],["施部長能傑：提撥費率可能會有變化……"],["沈委員發惠：全體保險人的權益整個都會受到影響。"],["施部長能傑：主要是不同的保險人可能有不同的看法。"],["沈委員發惠：所以我們那時候之所以在育嬰留職期間，採取只支付六成的薪資……但是我們認為六成不夠，政府用公務預算再補20%，最主要是因為我們不希望……如果我們調整到80%會影響到整體的被保險人，包括保險的準備金、包括整個提撥率、包括全體被保險人的權益，對不對？"],["施部長能傑：對。"],["沈委員發惠：所以我在這邊認為我們要講清楚，因為委員大部分的提案都是直接改成八成，如果這八成再加上我們公務預算二成，那就百分之百了，對不對？所以這個部分，我們在修法討論的時候，我希望部裡面能夠把立場講清楚。我們要用留職停薪的方式鼓勵育兒，同時我們也要兼顧保險整體的財務狀況及對財務造成的衝擊。我們未來如果有機會逐條審查的時候，能夠把部的法案的立場精神說清楚，而且我們希望能夠朝這個方向來走，好不好？"],["施部長能傑：好，知道，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝沈委員，不過看起來沈委員的處境跟我一樣，我要求部會提供預告法案，卻一直拖延，希望考試院、銓敘部不要向行政院看齊了，他們的做法不好，該什麼時候提供就趕快提供。我們這些委員們大家都很認真，希望能夠早點拜讀你們所提的法案，好不好？希望下次改進。","接下來請范雲委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":62,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-36-20","speakers":["翁曉玲","王安祥","林沛祥","陳昭姿","沈發惠","范雲","莊瑞雄","張雅琳","許宇甄","洪孟楷","蔡其昌","吳宗憲","傅崐萁","林倩綺"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2026-06-24"],"gazette_id":"1155501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155501_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請考試院秘書長、銓敘部部長、行政院人事行政總處、教育部、勞動部針對「我國育嬰留\n職停薪實施成效與擴大育嬰津貼政策」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、併案審查(一)委員羅智強\n等19人擬具「公教人員保險法第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員黃健豪等18人擬具「公教\n人員保險法第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「公教人員保險法第十二\n條及第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(四)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「公教人員保險法部分條文修正草\n案」案、(五)委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「公教人員保險法第三十五條及第五十一條條文修正草案」\n案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1155501_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}