{"error":false,"id":["170098"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170098,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170098","日期":"2026-06-24","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-22-17","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第17次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":17,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[22],"委員會代碼:str":["教育及文化委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第17次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-06-24T10:20:14+08:00","結束時間":"2026-06-24T10:34:50+08:00","影片長度":"00:14:36","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/eeac6239dd17b44612f690d1187725ec7bd878440abaa0e1cb9207885310a77d682c3a9a74037a9e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林宜瑾","委員發言時間":"10:20:14 - 10:34:50","會議時間":"2026-06-24T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部政務次長張廖萬堅列席就「校事會議暨教師輔導管教制度與兒少相關權益探討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":8.45159375,"end":10.13909375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":10.30784375,"end":10.67909375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":10.99971875,"end":11.910968750000002,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":14.05409375,"end":14.661593750000002,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":15.184718750000002,"end":16.011593750000003,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":16.922843750000002,"end":20.23034375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":20.36534375,"end":29.84909375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":30.827843750000003,"end":36.27846875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":36.345968750000004,"end":46.20096875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":46.30221875,"end":62.31659375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":62.924093750000004,"end":96.62346875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":62.97471875,"end":63.531593750000006,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":79.93409375,"end":81.60471875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":81.82409375,"end":81.84096875,"speaker_score":0.803},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":96.87659375000001,"end":102.17534375000001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":101.87159375,"end":123.20159375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":123.67409375000001,"end":146.99534375000002,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":131.43659375000001,"end":131.55471875,"speaker_score":0.803},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":145.49346875,"end":145.89846875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":147.26534375,"end":149.25659375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":149.18909375,"end":151.77096875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":152.05784375000002,"end":167.46471875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":164.44409375,"end":164.81534375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":165.37221875,"end":165.96284375000002,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":167.65034375000002,"end":169.45596875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":167.68409375000002,"end":185.62221875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":170.26596875,"end":170.72159375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":185.75721875000002,"end":195.93284375000002,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":187.42784375000002,"end":188.28846875000002,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":196.62471875,"end":202.71659375000002,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":198.05909375000002,"end":198.46409375000002,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":201.95721875,"end":202.27784375000002,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":203.05409375000002,"end":212.63909375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":213.04409375,"end":217.76909375000002,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":216.84096875,"end":223.00034375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":223.00034375,"end":223.32096875000002,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":223.16909375,"end":227.99534375000002,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":227.97846875000002,"end":286.28159375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":233.96909375,"end":234.34034375000002,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":234.34034375000002,"end":234.39096875,"speaker_score":0.803},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":240.26346875000002,"end":240.73596875,"speaker_score":0.803},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":242.64284375000003,"end":244.19534375,"speaker_score":0.803},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":286.90596875,"end":339.42096875000004,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":293.01471875000004,"end":293.31846875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":296.30534375,"end":296.87909375000004,"speaker_score":0.803},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":300.69284375,"end":301.06409375000004,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":311.02034375,"end":311.52659375,"speaker_score":0.803},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":314.27721875000003,"end":314.69909375000003,"speaker_score":0.803},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":332.80596875000003,"end":332.82284375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":332.82284375,"end":332.83971875000003,"speaker_score":0.803},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":332.83971875000003,"end":333.81846875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":340.21409375,"end":342.32346875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":342.13784375,"end":353.91659375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":345.58034375,"end":346.13721875000005,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":351.01409375000003,"end":351.31784375,"speaker_score":0.803},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":354.86159375,"end":370.25159375000004,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":361.39221875000004,"end":361.56096875000003,"speaker_score":0.803},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":365.96534375000005,"end":366.30284375,"speaker_score":0.803},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":370.50471875000005,"end":370.89284375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":370.89284375,"end":370.90971875,"speaker_score":0.803},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":370.99409375000005,"end":372.02346875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":372.02346875,"end":372.22596875000005,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":372.22596875000005,"end":372.73221875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":373.74471875,"end":376.29284375000003,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":376.71471875000003,"end":378.92534375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":377.13659375000003,"end":378.18284375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":378.92534375,"end":379.26284375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":379.61721875,"end":455.01471875000004,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":384.42659375000005,"end":384.62909375000004,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":384.73034375000003,"end":384.84846875000005,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":411.78096875,"end":411.79784375,"speaker_score":0.803},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":412.01721875000004,"end":412.10159375,"speaker_score":0.803},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":415.24034375,"end":415.25721875000005,"speaker_score":0.803},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":455.25096875,"end":462.62534375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":462.91221875,"end":479.39909375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":479.77034375000005,"end":481.28909375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":481.93034375,"end":487.14471875000004,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":482.70659375,"end":482.89221875000004,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":486.58784375000005,"end":490.99221875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":489.23721875,"end":491.53221875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":491.27909375,"end":525.8897187499999,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":526.4297187500001,"end":545.7009687500001,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":531.00284375,"end":531.13784375,"speaker_score":0.803},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":536.8247187500001,"end":537.16221875,"speaker_score":0.803},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":546.3759687500001,"end":556.72034375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":556.72034375,"end":602.41784375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":602.41784375,"end":602.43471875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":602.60346875,"end":613.2009687500001,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":605.97846875,"end":606.2990937500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":610.02846875,"end":610.06221875,"speaker_score":0.803},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":610.06221875,"end":610.29846875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":610.29846875,"end":610.3997187500001,"speaker_score":0.803},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":613.6228437500001,"end":622.26284375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":622.68471875,"end":658.2234687499999,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":641.7365937500001,"end":642.4622187500001,"speaker_score":0.803},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":652.1484687500001,"end":652.2665937500001,"speaker_score":0.803},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":652.2665937500001,"end":652.4353437500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":652.4353437500001,"end":652.51971875,"speaker_score":0.803},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":658.9153437500001,"end":660.8897187500002,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":661.04159375,"end":661.5815937500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":661.61534375,"end":662.35784375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":662.5434687500001,"end":713.53971875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":673.3940937500001,"end":673.5122187500001,"speaker_score":0.803},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":692.3953437499999,"end":692.69909375,"speaker_score":0.803},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":714.09659375,"end":715.51409375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":715.51409375,"end":724.9809687500001,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":726.1284687500001,"end":727.5122187500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":727.5122187500001,"end":732.62534375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":732.96284375,"end":737.13096875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":737.2153437500001,"end":740.26971875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":740.53971875,"end":742.3115937500002,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":742.8347187500001,"end":745.31534375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":746.31096875,"end":746.74971875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":747.0534687500001,"end":801.6440937500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":775.42034375,"end":776.1459687500001,"speaker_score":0.803},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":779.3859687500001,"end":779.79096875,"speaker_score":0.803},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":779.89221875,"end":779.9765937500001,"speaker_score":0.803},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":801.71159375,"end":811.80284375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":812.12346875,"end":825.9609687500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":814.24971875,"end":814.5872187500001,"speaker_score":0.803},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":826.41659375,"end":828.3234687500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":828.71159375,"end":830.0278437500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":830.68596875,"end":832.3059687500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":833.4028437500001,"end":835.3772187500001,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":835.74846875,"end":840.64221875,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":836.5247187500001,"end":836.84534375,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":840.64221875,"end":840.91221875,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":840.91221875,"end":840.92909375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":841.94159375,"end":854.6653437500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":848.11784375,"end":848.55659375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":849.0122187500001,"end":849.4678437500002,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":853.6865937500002,"end":856.82534375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員宜瑾","start":856.38659375,"end":857.0278437500001,"speaker_score":0.917},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":857.0278437500001,"end":859.91346875,"speaker_score":0.803},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":859.08659375,"end":859.22159375,"speaker_score":0.915},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":860.5209687500001,"end":864.38534375,"speaker_score":0.803},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員","start":864.6047187500001,"end":874.84784375,"speaker_score":0.803}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.773,"end":29.075,"text":"謝謝主席有請次長好有請次長好委員好次長早首先今天我們就來談那個校事會的相關問題這個老師這個職業其實就是要來傳授知識啟發學生的思維那塑造這個學生的品格那所以"},{"start":31.405,"end":45.774,"text":"並要陪伴學生給予一些心理支持所以任何制度的設計其實都要來保障學生權益的前提下那當然也要尊重老師的專業 這很重要"},{"start":46.614,"end":60.96,"text":"可是現在很多老師已經造成防禦性的教學不敢管也不敢教專業就會被迫打折可是我們來檢視學校訂定教師輔導與"},{"start":62.981,"end":78.308,"text":"管教學生的辦法的注意事項這個教師基於導引學生發展本來就可以採取這個適當的管教措施嘛那如果萬一學生有激烈的行為這個老師對於學生身體施加強制力是不予處罰對 沒錯"},{"start":81.929,"end":96.245,"text":"那可是這只是注意事項就是所謂的行政規則那效率也很有限那上次我們在公聽會的時候那個次長你有提到說你個人是支持這個輔導管教辦法入法"},{"start":96.966,"end":116.116,"text":"那其他中央學者也有一些建議那你現在目前教育部的態度呢我們現在就是在入法之前因為入法它畢竟比較放入廢死那它目前已經有的這個輔導管教辦法的這個相關的母法授權來自教師法所以我們現在授權學校訂定是用注意事項"},{"start":117.016,"end":145.18,"text":"那注意事項裡面其實已經有明文規定但大家覺得那個法令未接不足不夠其實是也不是不夠其實是覺得對老師的保障不夠所以我們才提到說可以考慮入法當時也有教師團體提出這樣的意見我個人贊成所以我目前呢我們也請那個部裡的同仁去研議那在研議入法之前我們是不是先就現在的注意事項裡面能夠更強化對第一線老師他合理管教權的保障"},{"start":145.74,"end":165.777,"text":"那這個可能會比較重要所以就是要先修改辦法嘛對 注意事項能夠更明確那像第24點他提到的阻卻這個違法事由我們要怎麼在校事會議前端就不受理或分流掉就老師正當在輔導管教或阻止自傷或傷人相關條文這也讓"},{"start":167.939,"end":195.312,"text":"我們在1月12號公布的那個流程裡面其實前端的流程裡面其實就可以引用這個部分如果它確實是一個合理管教的行為沒有涉及到不當管教那其他是認定上大小有過頭嗎沒有過頭那個就一般考核就可以去了解就可以我們其實在現在的消失會的前端在進入消失會之前其實就可以來做一個認定"},{"start":196.721,"end":211.92,"text":"就是要明確化就是老師採取相關措施的免責權應該這樣講吧對 就教師業務上之正當行為及維持教學秩序與教育活動正常進行之必要管教行為不予處罰這是很明確"},{"start":213.12,"end":226.718,"text":"那至於我剛剛提到,有可能會有一個專章出來我們現在也是在考慮,也跟法治單位我們在研議就是說是不是把它做修纜,修那個法把它入進去讓它有一個保障,會比較好"},{"start":228.14,"end":255.2,"text":"那另外就是解聘辦法我們是改由校長來邀集外聘人員還有教師代表 校長代表來召開會議先行決定這個案件是否受理可是校長沒有表決權 只能表達意見可是這個設計除了與校事會議的功能有點跌床駕屋以外你會讓校長好像沒有了行政責任架空了學校的治理功能"},{"start":255.84,"end":274.565,"text":"使員工制度的設計的初衷是要避免校長針對老師可是校長在這個過程中好像就不用承擔任何的責任所以因為這個小組是校長召集檢舉人也還是可以去質疑校長處理不公所以"},{"start":276.306,"end":286.077,"text":"現在回到這事情的原點 校長要怎麼當喔就到底要怎麼樣避免校長爛犬的同時又要給校長兼起行任重任"},{"start":286.96,"end":309.992,"text":"其實委員提到重點就是其實這個我們當時在訂這個時候也遇到類似的問題就是因為也有老師說他被校長針對性的對待所以透過校師會議的一個管道在所謂的整肅老師那當然這個有這樣的現象後來我們在討論的時候說那校長他還是學校最高主管機關他是最高主管"},{"start":311.112,"end":338.858,"text":"所以他還是要負責召集召開會議提供資料但是他在做判斷的時候他還是可以去解釋譬如說他如果認為這個老師是基於這個合法的管教他還是可以在那邊主張他不投票他反而比較好講他負責行政這個老師他到底這樣的行為要不要進校之會還是說這個只是小瑕疵我們到考核會裡面聽他報告完之後可以做比較輕的一個處置那我想校長他還是有建議權"},{"start":340.29,"end":353.15,"text":"所以還是停留在監獄圈就是說當時就是一方面又怕說有一些特別的其實我認為很多校長也跟我說其實他們在他們學校從來沒有老師進入過消失會議就是說所有的親事衝突的時候他們經過溝通"},{"start":354.912,"end":371.729,"text":"那個第一段都可以處理得很好所以我們一直希望這第一段能夠有這樣的功能這個功能裡面也有老師代表也有家長代表還有一個校外公正人士就三個那校長他主持會議的時候他認為他就可以去講這個案情讓大家知道"},{"start":373.797,"end":391.012,"text":"他自己不參與表決他就是但是他可以去表達他的這個立場表達意見對對對好那在上次公聽會我們就有強調就是說校事會議的制度一定要改對那當然對老師的專業支持也要加強包括這個法律教學心理支持對"},{"start":391.653,"end":420.848,"text":"那在教師法第31條有提到說教師依法執行職務訴訟時其服務的學校應該輔助其言辯律師或幫他辯論或提供法律上的協助那並也定有這個教師因公射送的輔助辦法那我們要怎麼把這些法律支持拉到更前端讓老師他如果受到檢舉之後可以立即得到專業法律的協助"},{"start":421.528,"end":450.151,"text":"那上次公聽會次長您有說教育部會持續來增加預算的這個建制老師的這個輔導諮商的系統那也因為有討論說是否要把法律的這個諮詢納入這個支持系統所以我覺得這個當然很重要應該來做好 那我們相關的費用也應該由這個行政來支付那另外我們教育部有函示說如果配合事件調查這個教師是要以調課"},{"start":451.612,"end":479.158,"text":"跟沒有客戶的時間來配合調查那不宜用這個工價或休假就是不宜用工價或待客來辦理那可是萬一如果需要啟用到待客那這個待客的費用如果最終這個老師最後他其實是沒有受到解聘的處分那待客費用是不是有行政機關可以支付"},{"start":479.838,"end":507.376,"text":"依這個精神是應該要對嘛齁所以這個如果依這個精神到時候你們會來處理這個我想實務上怎麼樣來落實包括訴訟包括這個我想那個輔導諮商那個系統我們其實這個費用也從過去通過之後開始實施到現在一年大概六千萬我也特別跟他們講說因為各縣市有的做得很前面有的做得很後面老師在進行這個輔導諮商系統的時候有的他"},{"start":507.816,"end":525.29,"text":"他是經費不夠那部分我們會再增加補助另外一條就是拉出來就是剛才你提到的雖然教師法目前裡面有對於老師的射送他有一個因公啦所以因為那個認定上的困難所以老師事實上他如果如果真的遇到校師會"},{"start":526.551,"end":543.791,"text":"射送大概很少會得到這個法律上的一個資源所以我們回去其實也在研究說我們是不是在教師輔導諮商系統裡面的那個計畫裡面在拉出一個法律的一個資源系統如果有一些重大的案件指標性的案件地方政府認為這個老師他"},{"start":546.771,"end":567.592,"text":"確實需要一些支持那我們在這個計畫裡面其實也可以直接就來支持這個老師依法來這個爭取他的權益好那另外在公聽會我上次也有出席來提到說其實很多老師認為根本的解方就是說我們應該來減少班級人數"},{"start":568.933,"end":595.44,"text":"因為現在一個老師面對那麼多的學生我們現在來看現在國小師生比是1比29那國中是1比30那公立高中是1比34那你現在高中端今年下半新學年好像會再減少一整那我們現在講究這個教育精緻化那學生的樣態也越來越多元實在真的是需要下修學生人數"},{"start":598.101,"end":622.031,"text":"所以不曉得教育部目前對於這個有沒有想法小班的方向我們是逐漸在落實啦那也要地方政府啦因為那個涉及到地方的那個經費權限啦那我們當然我們規定的那個都是下限其實有些地方政府他可以他也在減少他這些天花板就是說最多不能超過多少那如果他的現在譬如說地方"},{"start":623.171,"end":649.07,"text":"那個裁判法通過之後他有足夠的能力跟資源如果認為應該要下降我們是予以支持啦那這部分我們至於在政策上全國性的政策上面我們是採取比較穩健的下修因為那個117年那個像竹苗那個部分的高中他是會增加的116年他學年度他是會增加的所以我們在這部分也是要去考慮到各縣市他不同的狀況"},{"start":650.07,"end":664.691,"text":"那有的縣市他確實是一直往下掉那往下掉的話其實學校地方這種依據他的那個財力財力的這個負荷他是可以往下修的他是可以我們是支持的好那有老師有提到說其實他現在"},{"start":665.632,"end":685.969,"text":"不是每安置身心障礙學生一個人我們就可以減少班級人數一至三人那可是這個好像就是在這個所謂的身心障礙學生實施要點中身心障礙的學生好像是採外加名額的方式來安置"},{"start":686.73,"end":711.675,"text":"那這跟剛提到說一名生性障礙生就可以減少班級人數一至三人好像有點矛盾因為現在我們合併招生名額好像沒有預留彈性的狀況之下其實編班的時候還有更沒有這個彈性去處理減少班級人數所以這個到底要說有關於生性障礙生這個安置的這個班級人數彈性調整這個如何處理"},{"start":714.196,"end":724.332,"text":"有沒有更具體的規劃其實我們這三年因為外加身心障礙的學生超過通案核定的班級人數屬於同一類科的他就是可以申請調降新生的這個班級人數"},{"start":726.672,"end":744.688,"text":"對 可以調降嘛像現在從114學年度第二學期合給導師每週減少的譬如說他可以減少那個授課結束的補助也補助了不少費用給那個地方的那些就是他的班級的導師"},{"start":746.411,"end":768.094,"text":"好 那最後想要來請教校安人員的這個問題喔因為過去高中有軍訓教官喔那現在這個就是教官退出校園喔那可是現在目前是用學務創新人力來承接這個預防跟輔導兒少偏差行為的任務喔"},{"start":768.775,"end":792.916,"text":"好 那這個員額配置的部分我們是採用學校教官離退一人那就至少遞補這個一人為原則嘛好 那依照過去教官員額的設置基準那公立學校是六班以下設一人那七班是十二設置一人那十三班以上再增加"},{"start":793.777,"end":811.175,"text":"那私立學校是三百五十人以下至一人那超過三百五十再增一人那現在是有第一線的私校的校安人員在反映就這個比例因為你如果就私校來看的話"},{"start":812.476,"end":839.973,"text":"是1比350啦那公立差不多是1比204啦好 那如果按照這樣的話是不是可以把私校的這個校安的這個比例調整在1比250這個不曉得教育部怎麼樣看這件事覺得怎麼配置比較好啦你讓我們一個月來來檢討如果是250的話要增加多少人跟我們來做一個"},{"start":842.131,"end":857.243,"text":"因為現在說真的啦校園內的這個問題這個孩子現在問題很多元樣態也五花八門所以這個校安人員如果可以增置的話這個比例喔這個拉低很會我們應該研究到一個月後來回覆委員好 謝謝好 謝謝次長謝謝主席"},{"start":860.575,"end":874.648,"text":"好 谢谢林益景委员的咨询请次长回座下一位我们有请蔡春筹委员进行询答稍后在吴思瑶委员询答完毕之后我们休息五分钟"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:20:22.773000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:20:24.375000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-24T10:20:25.056000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:20:28.099000+08:00","text":"有請次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:20:28.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:20:28.499000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:20:29.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:20:29.741000+08:00","text":"次長早。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:20:31.082000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:20:48.647000+08:00","text":"首先今天我們來談校事會議的相關問題，老師這個職業其實就是要來傳授知識，啟發學生的思維，塑造學生的品格，並陪伴學生，給予一些心理支持。","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:20:50.568000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:21:09.758000+08:00","text":"在任何制度設計都要保障學生權益的前提下，當然也要尊重老師的專業，這很重要，可是現在已經造成很多老師防禦性的教學，不敢管也不敢教，專業就會被迫打折。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:21:11.279000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:21:32.287000+08:00","text":"我們檢視學校訂定教師輔導與管教學生辦法注意事項，教師基於導引學生發展，本來就可以採取適當的管教措施，萬一學生有激烈的行為，老師對於學生身體施加強制力不予處罰……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:21:32.287000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T10:21:33.287000+08:00","text":"阻卻違法，第二十四條。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:21:32.287000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:21:32.308000+08:00","text":"對，沒錯。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:21:36.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:21:42.316000+08:00","text":"可是這只是注意事項，就是所謂的行政規則，效力也很有限。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:21:43.478000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:21:55.869000+08:00","text":"上次公聽會的時候，次長有提到你個人支持輔導管教辦法入法，其他專家學者也有一些建議，目前教育部的態度呢？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:21:55.989000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:22:13.498000+08:00","text":"我們現在就是在入法之前……因為入法畢竟比較曠日廢時，目前已經有的輔導管教辦法來自於母法教師法授權，所以我們現在授權學校訂定是用注意事項，而注意事項裡面其實已經有明文規定。","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:22:14.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:22:23.046000+08:00","text":"雖然大家覺得法令位階不夠，其實也不是不夠，而是覺得對老師的保障不夠，所以我們才提到可以考慮入法。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:22:23.847000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:22:30.352000+08:00","text":"當時也有教師團體提出這樣的意見，我個人也贊成，所以目前也請部裡的同仁去研議。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:22:30.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:22:40.761000+08:00","text":"在研議入法之前，我們是不是先就現在的注意事項，能夠更強化對第一線老師合理管教權的保障，這個可能會比較重要。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:22:41.422000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:22:42.983000+08:00","text":"所以就是要先修改辦法嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:22:43.664000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:22:46.126000+08:00","text":"對，讓注意事項能夠更明確。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:22:46.306000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:22:54.693000+08:00","text":"像第二十四條提到的阻卻違法事由，要怎麼在校事會議前端就不受理或分流掉？","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:22:55.774000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:22:59.597000+08:00","text":"老師當在輔導管教或阻止致傷或傷人相關條文，可以另外訂定一個專章嗎？","quality":0.613},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:23:01.939000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:23:21.208000+08:00","text":"我們在1月12號公布的前端流程裡面，其實就可以引用這個部分，如果確實是一個合理管教的行為，沒有涉及到不當管教，其他是認定上大小、有沒有過頭之類的，一般考核就可以去了解。對。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:23:23.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:23:29.292000+08:00","text":"現在校事會議的前端、在進入校事會議之前，其實就可以來認定。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:23:30.721000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:23:31.502000+08:00","text":"就是要明確化……對。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:23:32.403000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:23:36.428000+08:00","text":"讓老師有採取相關措施的免責權，應該是這樣講嘛？","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:23:37.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:23:45.920000+08:00","text":"對，「教師業務上之正當行為，以及為維持教學秩序和教育活動正常進行之必要管教行為，不予處罰」，這是很明確的。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:23:47.721000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:23:50.945000+08:00","text":"至於我剛剛提的，有可能從這個辦法拉一個專章出來嗎？","quality":0.652},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:23:50.945000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:24:00.698000+08:00","text":"我們現在在考慮，也跟法制單位在研議是不是修法把它納進去，讓他有一個保障會比較好。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:24:02.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:24:18.252000+08:00","text":"另外就是解聘辦法改由校長邀集外聘人員，還有教師代表、家長代表來召開會議，先行決定這個案件是否受理，校長沒有表決權，只能表達意見。","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:24:18.252000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:24:29.180000+08:00","text":"可是這個設計除了與校事會議的功能有點疊床架屋以外，會讓校長好像沒有行政責任，架空了學校的治理功能。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:24:30.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:24:39.242000+08:00","text":"雖然這個制度設計的初衷是要避免校長針對老師，可是校長在這個過程中好像就不用承擔任何的責任。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:24:41.163000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:24:53.590000+08:00","text":"因為這個小組是由校長召集，檢舉人還是可以質疑校長處理不公，所以回到事情的原點──這樣校長要怎麼當？","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:24:54.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:25:00.057000+08:00","text":"到底要怎麼樣避免校長濫權的同時，又要校長肩負起行政重任？","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:25:01.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:25:15.267000+08:00","text":"委員提到了重點，我們當時在訂這個的時候，也遇到類似的問題，因為也有老師說他被校長針對性的對待，透過校事會議的管道在整肅老師。沒錯。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:25:16.588000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:25:52.858000+08:00","text":"有這樣的現象，後來我們在討論的時候說校長還是學校最高主管的首長，所以他還是要負責召集、召開會議、提供資料，但是他在做判斷的時候，還是可以去解釋，譬如說，如果他認為這位老師是基於合法的管教，他還是可以如此主張，他不投票，反而他會比較好講，他負責行政，這位老師到底這樣的行為要不要進校事會議，還是這個只是小瑕疵，我們到考核會聽他報告完之後，可以做比較輕的處置，我想校長還是有建議權。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:25:54.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:25:55.312000+08:00","text":"所以還是停留在建議權？","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:25:57.295000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:26:14.998000+08:00","text":"當時一方面又怕說有些特別的狀況，很多校長也跟我說，其實在他們學校從來沒有老師進入校事會議，所有的親師衝突他們經過溝通，在第一段都可以處理得很好，所以我們一直希望第一段能夠有這樣的功能。好。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:26:16.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:26:20.363000+08:00","text":"這個功能裡面有老師代表，也有家長代表，還有一個校外公正人士，就三類。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:26:21.304000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:26:32.001000+08:00","text":"校長在主持會議的時候，他就可以去講這個案情，讓大家知道，他自己不參與表決，但是他可以去表達他的立場。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:26:32.001000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:26:32.982000+08:00","text":"表達意見。對！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:26:33.963000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:26:44.992000+08:00","text":"在上次公聽會我們就有強調校事會議的制度一定要改，當然對老師的專業支持也要加強，包括法律、教學、心理支持。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:26:45.793000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:27:14.828000+08:00","text":"在教師法第三十一條有提到教師依法執行職務訴訟時，其服務學校應輔助延聘律師為其辯護及提供法律上之協助，並也訂有教師因公涉訟輔助辦法，我們要怎麼把這些法律支持拉到更前端，讓老師如果受到檢舉之後，可以立即得到專業法律的協助。","quality":0.874},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:27:15.648000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:27:37.186000+08:00","text":"上次公聽會次長有說教育部會持續增加預算建置老師輔導諮商的系統，也有討論到是否要把法律諮詢納入這個支持系統，我覺得這個當然很重要，應該要來做，相關的費用也應該由行政來支付。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:27:38.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:28:13.138000+08:00","text":"另外，教育部有函釋如果配合事件調查，教師要以調課跟沒有課務的時間來配合調查，不宜用公假或代課來辦理，萬一如果需要啟用到代課，最終這位老師最後是沒有受到解聘處分，代課費用是不是可以由行政機關支付？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:28:13.838000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:28:16.240000+08:00","text":"依這個精神是應該要。對嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:28:17.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:28:20.963000+08:00","text":"如果依這個精神，到時候你們會來處理這個……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:28:20.963000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:28:23.304000+08:00","text":"我想實務上怎麼樣來落實……","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:28:23.304000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:28:25.526000+08:00","text":"包括訴訟、包括這個……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:28:26.546000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:28:45.519000+08:00","text":"輔導諮商系統這個費用也從通過之後開始實施，到現在一年大概6,000萬，我也特別跟他們講，因為各縣市有的做得很前面、有的做得很後面，老師在進行輔導諮商系統的時候，有的是經費不夠，這部分我們會再增加補助。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:28:45.939000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:29:03.875000+08:00","text":"另外一條拉出來，剛才你提到的，雖然教師法目前對於老師涉訟有一個「因公」的條件，因為認定上的困難，所以事實上，老師如果真的遇到校事會議涉訟，大概很少會得到法律上的支援。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:29:05.537000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:29:30.761000+08:00","text":"我們回去其實也在研究是不是在教師輔導諮商系統的那個計畫裡面，再拉出一個法律的支援系統，如果一些重大案件、指標性的案件，地方政府認為這位老師確實需要一些支持，在這個計畫裡面也可以直接支持這位老師，依法爭取他的權益。好。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:29:31.622000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:30:00.038000+08:00","text":"另外在公聽會，我上次也有出席提到很多老師認為根本的解方就是我們應該減少班級人數，因為現在一個老師面對那麼多的學生，以現在來看，現在國小師生比是1比29，國中是1比30，公立高中是1比34，今年高中端新下半學年好像會再減少1人。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:30:01.478000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:30:16.163000+08:00","text":"我們現在講教育精緻化，學生的樣態也越來越多元，實在真的是需要下修學生人數，不曉得教育部目前對於這部分有沒有想法？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:30:17.003000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:30:23.626000+08:00","text":"小班制的方向我們是逐漸在落實，也要地方政府來合作，因為這涉及到地方的經費權限。對！","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:30:25.527000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:30:33.910000+08:00","text":"我們規定的都是下限，其實有些地方政府也在減少，這是天花板，就是最多不能超過多少人。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:30:35.571000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:30:43.055000+08:00","text":"譬如說財劃法通過之後，地方有足夠的能力跟資源，如果認為應該要下降人數，我們是予以支持。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:30:45.157000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:31:15.086000+08:00","text":"至於在全國性的政策上面，我們是採取比較穩健下修的方式，像竹苗在116學年度的部分高中，它是會增加的，我們也是要考慮到各縣市不同的狀況，有的縣市人數確實是一直在往下掉，往下掉的話，地方政府依據財力的負荷，它是可以往下修的，我們是支持的。好。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:31:17.269000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:31:30.742000+08:00","text":"有老師提到現在班級每安置身心障礙學生1人，就可以減少班級人數1至3人。是。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:31:31.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:32:05.655000+08:00","text":"在身心障礙學生實施要點中，身心障礙學生好像是採外加名額的方式來安置，這跟剛剛提到1名身心障礙生就可以減少班級人數1至3人，好像有點矛盾，現在我們核定招生名額，好像沒有預留彈性的狀況之下，在編班的時候更沒有彈性去處理減少班級人數，有關於安置身心障礙生彈性調整的班級人數要如何處理？","quality":0.883},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:32:08.196000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:32:09.638000+08:00","text":"有沒有更具體的規劃？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:32:09.638000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:32:18.332000+08:00","text":"其實我們這三年因為外加身心障礙學生超過通案核定的班級人數，屬於同一類科的就可以申請調降新生的班級人數。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:32:20.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:32:21.333000+08:00","text":"對，可以調降嘛？對！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:32:22.574000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:32:40.411000+08:00","text":"像現在從114學年度第2學期核給導師每週減少的時數，譬如說，他也可以減少授課節數的補助，也補助了不少費用給地方的班級導師。好。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:32:41.372000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:33:13.304000+08:00","text":"最後想要請教校安人員的問題，因為過去高中有軍訓教官，現在教官退出校園，目前是用學務創新人力來承接預防跟輔導兒少偏差行為的任務，在員額配置的部分，我們是採用學校教官離退1人，至少遞補1人為原則嘛？對。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:33:14.826000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:33:35.285000+08:00","text":"依照過去教官員額的設置基準，公立學校是6班以下設置1人，7班至12班設置1人，13班以上每增加6班增置1人；私立學校是350人以下置1人，超過350再增1人。","quality":0.836},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:33:37.607000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:34:03.747000+08:00","text":"現在是有第一線的私校校安人員在反映這個比例，如果就私校來看是1比350，公立差不多是1比204，如果按照這樣，是不是可以把私校的校安比例調整在1比250，不曉得教育部怎麼看這件事？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:34:04.908000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:34:05.888000+08:00","text":"你們覺得怎麼配置比較好？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:34:07.509000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:34:13.973000+08:00","text":"你讓我們一個月來檢討，如果是250的話要增加多少人，我們來做一個……","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:34:16.131000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:34:28.561000+08:00","text":"因為現在說真的校園內孩子的問題很多元，樣態也五花八門，所以校安人員如果可以增置的話，比例拉低可能會……","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:34:28.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:34:30.442000+08:00","text":"我們來研究，一個月後回復委員，好不好？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2026-06-24T10:34:30.702000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:34:31.223000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝次長，謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T10:34:34.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:34:34.575000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-24T10:34:35.556000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:34:37.858000+08:00","text":"謝謝林宜瑾委員的質詢，請次長回座。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-24T10:34:38.799000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T10:34:48.347000+08:00","text":"下一位有請蔡春綢委員進行詢答，稍後在吳思瑤委員詢答完畢之後，我們休息5分鐘。","quality":0.588}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1429,"blocks":[["林委員宜瑾：（10時20分）謝謝主席，有請次長。"],["主席：有請次長。"],["張廖次長萬堅：委員好。"],["林委員宜瑾：次長早。首先今天我們來談校事會議的相關問題，老師這個職業其實就是要來傳授知識，啟發學生的思維，塑造學生的品格，並陪伴學生，給予一些心理支持。在任何制度設計都要保障學生權益的前提下，當然也要尊重老師的專業，這很重要，可是現在已經造成很多老師防禦性的教學，不敢管也不敢教，專業就會被迫打折。我們檢視學校訂定教師輔導與管教學生辦法注意事項，教師基於導引學生發展，本來就可以採取適當的管教措施，萬一學生有激烈的行為，老師對於學生身體施加強制力不予處罰……"],["張廖次長萬堅：阻卻違法，第二十四條。"],["林委員宜瑾：對，沒錯。可是這只是注意事項，就是所謂的行政規則，效力也很有限。上次公聽會的時候，次長有提到你個人支持輔導管教辦法入法，其他專家學者也有一些建議，目前教育部的態度呢？"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們現在就是在入法之前……因為入法畢竟比較曠日廢時，目前已經有的輔導管教辦法來自於母法教師法授權，所以我們現在授權學校訂定是用注意事項，而注意事項裡面其實已經有明文規定。雖然大家覺得法令位階不夠，其實也不是不夠，而是覺得對老師的保障不夠，所以我們才提到可以考慮入法。當時也有教師團體提出這樣的意見，我個人也贊成，所以目前也請部裡的同仁去研議。在研議入法之前，我們是不是先就現在的注意事項，能夠更強化對第一線老師合理管教權的保障，這個可能會比較重要。"],["林委員宜瑾：所以就是要先修改辦法嘛？"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，讓注意事項能夠更明確。"],["林委員宜瑾：像第二十四條提到的阻卻違法事由，要怎麼在校事會議前端就不受理或分流掉？老師當在輔導管教或阻止致傷或傷人相關條文，可以另外訂定一個專章嗎？"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們在1月12號公布的前端流程裡面，其實就可以引用這個部分，如果確實是一個合理管教的行為，沒有涉及到不當管教，其他是認定上大小、有沒有過頭之類的，一般考核就可以去了解。"],["林委員宜瑾：對。"],["張廖次長萬堅：現在校事會議的前端、在進入校事會議之前，其實就可以來認定。"],["林委員宜瑾：就是要明確化……"],["張廖次長萬堅：對。"],["林委員宜瑾：讓老師有採取相關措施的免責權，應該是這樣講嘛？"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，「教師業務上之正當行為，以及為維持教學秩序和教育活動正常進行之必要管教行為，不予處罰」，這是很明確的。"],["林委員宜瑾：至於我剛剛提的，有可能從這個辦法拉一個專章出來嗎？"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們現在在考慮，也跟法制單位在研議是不是修法把它納進去，讓他有一個保障會比較好。"],["林委員宜瑾：另外就是解聘辦法改由校長邀集外聘人員，還有教師代表、家長代表來召開會議，先行決定這個案件是否受理，校長沒有表決權，只能表達意見。可是這個設計除了與校事會議的功能有點疊床架屋以外，會讓校長好像沒有行政責任，架空了學校的治理功能。雖然這個制度設計的初衷是要避免校長針對老師，可是校長在這個過程中好像就不用承擔任何的責任。因為這個小組是由校長召集，檢舉人還是可以質疑校長處理不公，所以回到事情的原點──這樣校長要怎麼當？到底要怎麼樣避免校長濫權的同時，又要校長肩負起行政重任？"],["張廖次長萬堅：委員提到了重點，我們當時在訂這個的時候，也遇到類似的問題，因為也有老師說他被校長針對性的對待，透過校事會議的管道在整肅老師。"],["林委員宜瑾：沒錯。"],["張廖次長萬堅：有這樣的現象，後來我們在討論的時候說校長還是學校最高主管的首長，所以他還是要負責召集、召開會議、提供資料，但是他在做判斷的時候，還是可以去解釋，譬如說，如果他認為這位老師是基於合法的管教，他還是可以如此主張，他不投票，反而他會比較好講，他負責行政，這位老師到底這樣的行為要不要進校事會議，還是這個只是小瑕疵，我們到考核會聽他報告完之後，可以做比較輕的處置，我想校長還是有建議權。"],["林委員宜瑾：所以還是停留在建議權？"],["張廖次長萬堅：當時一方面又怕說有些特別的狀況，很多校長也跟我說，其實在他們學校從來沒有老師進入校事會議，所有的親師衝突他們經過溝通，在第一段都可以處理得很好，所以我們一直希望第一段能夠有這樣的功能。"],["林委員宜瑾：好。"],["張廖次長萬堅：這個功能裡面有老師代表，也有家長代表，還有一個校外公正人士，就三類。校長在主持會議的時候，他就可以去講這個案情，讓大家知道，他自己不參與表決，但是他可以去表達他的立場。"],["林委員宜瑾：表達意見。"],["張廖次長萬堅：對！"],["林委員宜瑾：在上次公聽會我們就有強調校事會議的制度一定要改，當然對老師的專業支持也要加強，包括法律、教學、心理支持。在教師法第三十一條有提到教師依法執行職務訴訟時，其服務學校應輔助延聘律師為其辯護及提供法律上之協助，並也訂有教師因公涉訟輔助辦法，我們要怎麼把這些法律支持拉到更前端，讓老師如果受到檢舉之後，可以立即得到專業法律的協助。","上次公聽會次長有說教育部會持續增加預算建置老師輔導諮商的系統，也有討論到是否要把法律諮詢納入這個支持系統，我覺得這個當然很重要，應該要來做，相關的費用也應該由行政來支付。另外，教育部有函釋如果配合事件調查，教師要以調課跟沒有課務的時間來配合調查，不宜用公假或代課來辦理，萬一如果需要啟用到代課，最終這位老師最後是沒有受到解聘處分，代課費用是不是可以由行政機關支付？"],["張廖次長萬堅：依這個精神是應該要。"],["林委員宜瑾：對嘛！如果依這個精神，到時候你們會來處理這個……"],["張廖次長萬堅：我想實務上怎麼樣來落實……"],["林委員宜瑾：包括訴訟、包括這個……"],["張廖次長萬堅：輔導諮商系統這個費用也從通過之後開始實施，到現在一年大概6,000萬，我也特別跟他們講，因為各縣市有的做得很前面、有的做得很後面，老師在進行輔導諮商系統的時候，有的是經費不夠，這部分我們會再增加補助。另外一條拉出來，剛才你提到的，雖然教師法目前對於老師涉訟有一個「因公」的條件，因為認定上的困難，所以事實上，老師如果真的遇到校事會議涉訟，大概很少會得到法律上的支援。我們回去其實也在研究是不是在教師輔導諮商系統的那個計畫裡面，再拉出一個法律的支援系統，如果一些重大案件、指標性的案件，地方政府認為這位老師確實需要一些支持，在這個計畫裡面也可以直接支持這位老師，依法爭取他的權益。"],["林委員宜瑾：好。另外在公聽會，我上次也有出席提到很多老師認為根本的解方就是我們應該減少班級人數，因為現在一個老師面對那麼多的學生，以現在來看，現在國小師生比是1比29，國中是1比30，公立高中是1比34，今年高中端新下半學年好像會再減少1人。我們現在講教育精緻化，學生的樣態也越來越多元，實在真的是需要下修學生人數，不曉得教育部目前對於這部分有沒有想法？"],["張廖次長萬堅：小班制的方向我們是逐漸在落實，也要地方政府來合作，因為這涉及到地方的經費權限。"],["林委員宜瑾：對！"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們規定的都是下限，其實有些地方政府也在減少，這是天花板，就是最多不能超過多少人。譬如說財劃法通過之後，地方有足夠的能力跟資源，如果認為應該要下降人數，我們是予以支持。至於在全國性的政策上面，我們是採取比較穩健下修的方式，像竹苗在116學年度的部分高中，它是會增加的，我們也是要考慮到各縣市不同的狀況，有的縣市人數確實是一直在往下掉，往下掉的話，地方政府依據財力的負荷，它是可以往下修的，我們是支持的。"],["林委員宜瑾：好。有老師提到現在班級每安置身心障礙學生1人，就可以減少班級人數1至3人。"],["張廖次長萬堅：是。"],["林委員宜瑾：在身心障礙學生實施要點中，身心障礙學生好像是採外加名額的方式來安置，這跟剛剛提到1名身心障礙生就可以減少班級人數1至3人，好像有點矛盾，現在我們核定招生名額，好像沒有預留彈性的狀況之下，在編班的時候更沒有彈性去處理減少班級人數，有關於安置身心障礙生彈性調整的班級人數要如何處理？有沒有更具體的規劃？"],["張廖次長萬堅：其實我們這三年因為外加身心障礙學生超過通案核定的班級人數，屬於同一類科的就可以申請調降新生的班級人數。"],["林委員宜瑾：對，可以調降嘛？"],["張廖次長萬堅：對！像現在從114學年度第2學期核給導師每週減少的時數，譬如說，他也可以減少授課節數的補助，也補助了不少費用給地方的班級導師。"],["林委員宜瑾：好。最後想要請教校安人員的問題，因為過去高中有軍訓教官，現在教官退出校園，目前是用學務創新人力來承接預防跟輔導兒少偏差行為的任務，在員額配置的部分，我們是採用學校教官離退1人，至少遞補1人為原則嘛？"],["張廖次長萬堅：對。"],["林委員宜瑾：依照過去教官員額的設置基準，公立學校是6班以下設置1人，7班至12班設置1人，13班以上每增加6班增置1人；私立學校是350人以下置1人，超過350再增1人。現在是有第一線的私校校安人員在反映這個比例，如果就私校來看是1比350，公立差不多是1比204，如果按照這樣，是不是可以把私校的校安比例調整在1比250，不曉得教育部怎麼看這件事？你們覺得怎麼配置比較好？"],["張廖次長萬堅：你讓我們一個月來檢討，如果是250的話要增加多少人，我們來做一個……"],["林委員宜瑾：因為現在說真的校園內孩子的問題很多元，樣態也五花八門，所以校安人員如果可以增置的話，比例拉低可能會……"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們來研究，一個月後回復委員，好不好？"],["林委員宜瑾：好，謝謝次長，謝謝主席。"],["張廖次長萬堅：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林宜瑾委員的質詢，請次長回座。","下一位有請蔡春綢委員進行詢答，稍後在吳思瑤委員詢答完畢之後，我們休息5分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":370,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-22-17","speakers":["伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳培瑜","柯志恩","葛如鈞","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","蔡春綢","葉元之","吳思瑤","吳沛憶","范雲","張雅琳","洪孟楷","王安祥","羅廷瑋","羅智強","盧縣一","傅崐萁","徐欣瑩","何欣純","黃捷","林倩綺"],"page_start":195,"meetingDate":["2026-06-24"],"gazette_id":"1155302","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155302_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請教育部政務次長張廖萬堅列席就「校事會議暨教師輔導管教制度與兒少相關權益探討」進行\n專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1155302_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}