{"error":false,"id":["170101"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170101,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170101","日期":"2026-06-24","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-36-20","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第20次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":20,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第20次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-06-24T10:36:29+08:00","結束時間":"2026-06-24T10:50:11+08:00","影片長度":"00:13:42","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/eeac6239dd17b4469e8108322897b52c1e228f614125acb8cb9207885310a77d7b10ae65e3cca9285ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"莊瑞雄","委員發言時間":"10:36:29 - 10:50:11","會議時間":"2026-06-24T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請考試院秘書長、銓敘部部長、行政院人事行政總處、教育部、勞動部針對「我國育嬰留職停薪實施成效與擴大育嬰津貼政策」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、併案審查\n（一）委員羅智強等19人擬具「公教人員保險法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員黃健豪等18人擬具「公教人員保險法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「公教人員保險法第十二條及第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「公教人員保險法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「公教人員保險法第三十五條及第五十一條條文修正草案」案。\n【第（五）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n【開會事由二僅進行詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":0.41909375000000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.27034375,"end":13.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.497218750000002,"end":14.914718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.99909375,"end":17.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.62721875,"end":20.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.184093750000002,"end":19.926593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.49596875,"end":32.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.78534375,"end":37.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.88159375,"end":87.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.16909375,"end":122.84721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.21846875000001,"end":136.39784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.90409375000002,"end":138.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.62534375,"end":143.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.38409375,"end":152.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.12096875,"end":165.16971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.61346875,"end":160.90034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.35534375,"end":173.59034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.75909375,"end":187.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.41096875000002,"end":189.08159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.60471875000002,"end":190.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.05596875,"end":192.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.51971875,"end":197.92409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.66659375,"end":219.60846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.69284375,"end":220.38471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.00909375,"end":222.49409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.35471875000002,"end":247.35096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.24534375000002,"end":252.43034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.82659375000003,"end":260.66534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.61096875000004,"end":257.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.03659375,"end":268.15784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.82096875,"end":264.07409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.44471875,"end":273.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.74346875000003,"end":276.98346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.27034375,"end":278.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.41346875,"end":279.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.45971875000004,"end":281.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.83909375,"end":298.49909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.76659375,"end":288.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.70159375000003,"end":301.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.48596875000004,"end":303.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.21971875,"end":307.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.98284375000003,"end":309.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.34971875,"end":319.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.91346875,"end":343.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.84909375,"end":327.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.63971875000004,"end":351.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.21659375,"end":362.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.79284375000003,"end":368.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.78346875,"end":374.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.58846875,"end":377.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.42346875000004,"end":378.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.70596875,"end":379.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.03909375,"end":384.59534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.81471875,"end":391.76721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.96659375,"end":385.50659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.32409375000003,"end":392.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.69534375,"end":393.48846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.71221875000003,"end":393.45471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.48846875000004,"end":393.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.97784375000003,"end":401.53784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":401.82471875000005,"end":404.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.13659375000003,"end":404.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.89596875,"end":413.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.70471875000004,"end":414.02534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":414.02534375000005,"end":417.11346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","star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這出現了一個問題啦就政府我們這一次的一個立法裡面喔反而也去等於間接去承認啦公務員的一個薪資的一個本縫的結構來看的話它其實是落後的為什麼提出這個問題呢 就是說任何國家政策要去推動公務人員都有帶頭的作用啦"},{"start":198.717,"end":218.903,"text":"我們都有帶頭的作用所以你現在就是說我們現在這個修法你看你說這個補貼就政府一方面說公務人員的跟勞工的制度你們可能會講說公務人員跟勞工制度會不同待遇不能直接去做比較可是我們另外一方面又要用最低工資的作為育嬰津貼的一個保障的一個底線這個其實會碰到一些問題"},{"start":223.407,"end":252.114,"text":"就會反映 你看反映的問題就是我們前陣子大家在那邊炒說公務人員這個離職炒的問題啊那基層公務人員也會給你反映啊我本縫你都不調你給他調加級甚至於我這個加班費其實也是有限的那這種狀況的話 你現在育嬰的津貼你都必須要去靠補差額才可以維持這樣基本的一個保障齁這個我不知道 柏定或者考詮這個地方 副院長你們的看法是怎麼樣"},{"start":254.858,"end":272.986,"text":"看數字啦我們現在大概五千多個嘛裡面大概有一千多位是確實低於那個翠梨公子的差不多二十%啦差不多以他的縫點來講差不多相當於一個高考剛分發的那個六本以下的那一個縫點差不多就會低於"},{"start":273.769,"end":298.249,"text":"那個本縫就是最低工資啦 大概是這樣一個數字啦那剛剛委員提到就是說那本縫 因為我們的公共人員薪資結構你也知道比較複雜啦所以本縫以後還有專業家只要不同的東西所以在一個保險制度裡面我們當初設計公保就是以本縫 很多都是用本縫來做基準啦那本縫做基準他就會碰到"},{"start":298.869,"end":319.108,"text":"如果那個縫額太低就會換算起來真的是會有差但像退休的部分我們就改用本縫乘以2反過來就是不一樣所以部長其實你也承認這樣的狀況存在那這次立法以後會產生一個什麼問題呢就是說我因為本縫偏低"},{"start":319.949,"end":334.602,"text":"阿我這個政策來講的話 我要申請這個育嬰留庭的話 我最會嫁阿 我太 又嬰又變不足啦阿就是說你們有沒有去預估 你知道說多少公務人員會 真正會去受惠阿還是說你這個補差額以後會不會影響說他提高申請的一個意願難道你們不會發現這樣的一個問題嗎"},{"start":343.923,"end":362.283,"text":"內部有討論,跟委員剛剛講的一樣,我們真的沒有科學數字來,我們做很多對於那個意願有沒有辦法,這個我們不用去管他,我們只負責呢,就認為我們應該多做這種支持性的工作要管嘛,假定越高就越有可能有人,就良性的"},{"start":363.584,"end":390.678,"text":"這個機率就越多人會申請嘛大概只能這樣去處理啦至於說本縫這個事情簡單講我們現在有些本縫大概譬如像說高考進來的本縫六本一以上的大概他大概就是他金額本來就比那個最低工資高啦那所以但是再怎麼算起來他就不是全新啦去投保啊就會出現那個落差但是如果要用全新的話就我剛剛講他涉及到整個財務結構呢"},{"start":392.706,"end":405.858,"text":"你講這個財富結構我覺得很好啊你像譬如說你最低勞工最低薪資的話你那個最低的工資原則上我看這個是幾乎在逐年在調升對沒錯那你逐年在調升的話你如果本縫的一個結構你不去調整的話那你符合補差額的資格人數也會越來越多那本縫本來調薪的時候本縫也跟著會調啦"},{"start":417.408,"end":435.277,"text":"當然啦 所以你整個補貼的金額也會去增加啊所以你全區部也必須要去講說你評估說我未來預算的需求到底是多少你補差額的政策是不是可以長期去做一個擴大就是說其實重點是只有一個啦就你說的 說那個薪資結構非常複雜啦非常複雜以後你有沒有去思考說根本檢討公務人員的本縫的一個結構我們各位想一下本縫的結構 威廉你應該知道這個"},{"start":446.943,"end":465.932,"text":"那個本縫是幾點幾點的制度但是實際上的金額這是行政院的慣例譬如說這樣講385點縫點到底要給他多少錢這行政院負責的不是我們負責我們只負責那個縫點是幾點差距是這樣子啦但是確實那個本縫每次在調薪的時候一定譬如你要調"},{"start":468.252,"end":490.819,"text":"4% 5%本碰就會跟著調4% 5%過去慣例都是這樣做那他會跟著往上走那委員剛剛問的是這一次我們如果把他最低工資還是在調啊往上跑啊那我們先講以現在假設我們現在的制度去估算的話大概我們用這個差額大概不多啦政府需要補的差額真的很少啦不多是要多少不多"},{"start":493.06,"end":518.619,"text":"大概成幾萬跟兩千萬啦這樣也很少的生意啊但是這個事情就是說當我們把制度放寬以後如果良性循環就會變成越來越多人會來使用嘛越來越多人使用差額就會補得越來越多嘛所以這個其實是一個情境我很難想像我現在可以去算得那麼精準只是說我們確實有想過這個問題啦"},{"start":520.089,"end":540.584,"text":"其實我對這一次的一個制度的參與育兒的一個新的制度的一個設計修法的一個方向其實我是表達肯定那你說是否採取雙薪都先領滿六個月以後才能再增加三個月或者說現在雙薪最長可能各六個月以現在來看你公務領完育嬰留庭人數現在有多少人"},{"start":549.482,"end":562.192,"text":"一年三千多 去年三千多人 現在四千多了四千 你們給我的資料 公務人員 育嬰 留庭人數四千四百八十七啦 現況對 現況 然後降五趴啦但重點是喔 我相信每一個委員的版本都會提到 大家討論會提到 女性佔八成啦"},{"start":572.855,"end":581.021,"text":"男性要降低到兩成 你這次修法當然就是說增加男性申請的一個誘因促進家庭裡面育兒 男女大家一起來 降低女性職場的生涯裡面跟家庭雙重的一個負擔其實對這樣的一個政策我認為是對的"},{"start":594.89,"end":616.704,"text":"這一個方向我認為才是最肯認的一個地方我每次一看到我們一看到那個整個留庭的部分都是女生我們男生好像就是好像照顧小孩子沒有男生的事當然一個家庭的一個組成裡面也許夫妻之間會去商量說不然我們不要兩個都大廚我們一個去一個繼續上班可是你怎麼挑挑到最後都是女性去上班"},{"start":624.549,"end":636.926,"text":"都是女性申請這也很奇怪就是說男生就把這個責任都共同對家庭的支持這個部分好像就是說把這個責任就稍微給拖免掉了那這一次的修法那男女大家一起來做一個參與"},{"start":641.793,"end":652.847,"text":"這個對於這個育兒也向社會宣示這個不是媽媽一個人的責任啦這個也是爸爸共同的一個責任這個我們是表達支持啦我是眼淚啦"},{"start":656.812,"end":673.778,"text":"那個其實那個本縫那個部分雖然是複雜可是從這次修法裡面我們真的可以看得出來你如果到最後你是要比照勞工的基本薪資那看起來那個本縫的部分確實是有調整的一個必要啦委員你知道那是素人市長的責任好啦OK這個其實"},{"start":680.649,"end":695.923,"text":"看到問題啊你們最常互動跟行政院最常互動的就是你們啦對啦看到這個問題其實大家應該是共同去推進因為畢竟任何政策要在國家裡面實施大家都"},{"start":697.267,"end":725.349,"text":"一定在看公家機關的一個方向是什麼你去看你去看這個這一次啊我們這個少子女化的問題喔台灣我們現在全世界都沒那麼多嘛你去看韓國你去看匈牙利那個多激進的一個財政的一個支持啊那確實是很可怕喔三十歲的孩子你生孩子不用稅金你生三個一輩子全部都不用稅金甚至於你生了小孩"},{"start":727.383,"end":735.411,"text":"買房子投機款這真的政府幫你出雖然是一百多萬也就是說國外但是那個有沒有達到效果是讓他停止繼續惡化而已到未必去達到生育率會產生多少全世界這個經濟發展以後"},{"start":745.96,"end":761.389,"text":"達到人口替代率2.1的只有一個國家就只有以色列以色列又是因為宗教問題不然你說歐洲國家 美國他們人口出生率也說低於人口替代率所以很多人就認為說你不用我只要採移民政策讓更多人來為這個國家貢獻可是這個部分我們又"},{"start":769.275,"end":779.582,"text":"制度啊 其實跟別的國家做比較的話 我們又有太多太多的一個考量啊要不然喔 超過五六個喔 都是哪裡你知道嗎 都是非洲啦生小孩剩五個六個的全部都是非洲啦那種GDP喔 你看都一千以下的啦那我們這個經濟 這個國民所得一提高以後 大家都不是啦"},{"start":791.526,"end":796.269,"text":"我辦公室的 年輕人的 只有一隻小孩子其他全部都沒有 所以我們不敢太苛求你們但問題是這個政策推行的方向 草野大家都看到問題但是政府就唯一不能去逼迫就是強迫人家生小孩 不生你也沒辦法但那個提供怎麼樣的誘因 支持然後對減輕他們的一個負擔這個政府其實可以再加大力道來做啦 好不好 好 謝謝"},{"start":821.186,"end":823.643,"text":"謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}