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麻煩副秘部長還有兩個單位的代表"},{"start":34.042,"end":43.106,"text":"賴總統之前有在記者會上宣布台灣人口對策的新戰略對外宣稱要讓家庭支持從口號變成制度"},{"start":43.846,"end":66.718,"text":"那當然孩子不是滿三歲以後就不用照顧了所以說從他託嬰幼兒園到上小學前其實接送、生病、停課、臨時照顧都是年輕父母會面臨的壓力那當然不管公務人員或是老師也都是父母所以政府既然要求民間企業要建立友善的職場所以公部門就應該要先做到位"},{"start":67.498,"end":95.02,"text":"而且如果政策就只是开完记者会之后那法案跟配套都还在路上最后受伤的还是会是我们的公教人员第一线的这些年轻的父母的家庭所以我先请教吴副秘书长就是行政院5月28号已经把性别平等工作法跟就业保险法修正草案松进立法院但考试院的公保法修正草案却到6月15号才函请"},{"start":95.78,"end":114.74,"text":"行政院會賢那現在也還沒送到立法院請問一下這中間有將近三個禮拜的時間差那是因為賴總統在宣布之前就跟行政院先討論沒有跟考試院討論所以才會這樣的行政差嗎時間差還是說因為考試院本身的作業太慢了"},{"start":116.163,"end":143.062,"text":"我來回答好了我想在過程裡面行政院都有跟我們部裡面有做一些溝通討論那主體就我們全區部跟考選部根據這個需要去發動那我們就把案子要報到考試院去考試院有作業的程序因為完了以後考試要做審查要交付到院會裡面去做審查所以差不多三個禮拜大概就是說我們在6月11號大概只我記得"},{"start":143.812,"end":162.162,"text":"差不多一個或兩個禮拜的考試院就通過院會了因為我們是等於是那現在在行政院嗎因為還沒送到立法院6月11號就已經送到行政院去會選那現在還沒送到立法院剛剛有報告說行政院明天會排入他們的院會所以說這中間的話那請問一下在116年能夠同步實施這樣時間上來得及嗎"},{"start":164.151,"end":179.655,"text":"來得及啊就是說如果這個會選回到他明天把院會通過就回到我們考試院然後兩個就會直接送立法院我想不要說因為不同的這個有行政院考試院之差然後就把這樣子的一個相關的"},{"start":180.095,"end":188.964,"text":"因為你性別公眾評審法、就業保險法大家都原則上沒問題公保法也一定要有同步的修正才能夠執行那另外就是說行政院認為零到六歲都有這樣子育兒的照顧需求那公保法草案你們也希望能夠把"},{"start":198.414,"end":213.548,"text":"今天的年齡延長到七歲但是我們現在公務人員的留職停薪制度還是以三歲以下為基本的架構那請問一下權術部是不是已經開始啟動公務人員留職停薪辦法大概什麼時候"},{"start":216.371,"end":243.184,"text":"就是我想對我們來講這個作業不是太因為是辦法不是太困難那因為我們不了解最後大院修修完的具體的條文會是什麼所以我們會那時候再配合很快修正所以就是等於我們修完通過這樣子的通過之後你們就會馬上修正大概需要多久的時間如果辦法修正我們很快提到考試院去一個可能考試院很快就可以公佈了很快是多久"},{"start":247.205,"end":264.188,"text":"這個也是要匯選行政院啦所以大概我們會盡快就是一定會努力把這個事情在明年實施之前通通把它鑑定對 一定要要不然的話有這樣子的一個福利有這樣子的一個津貼結果我們卻沒有辦法申請那我覺得這樣子的話就等於失去了那個美意啊所以還是要請考試員請這個全區這邊一定要加緊那個腳步喔"},{"start":267.649,"end":294.594,"text":"那另外請教一下教育部陳處長就是教育部的報告說教師留職停薪是以學期為單位但我們現在的薪制都是以日彈性零到六歲照顧為單位那請問教育部會怎麼樣子來去做這樣的一個配套跟委員報告雖然我們應該考慮到受教權的問題所以是以學期但是一樣老師可以跟學校去溝通目前也是可以以日"},{"start":295.582,"end":320.921,"text":"對 以日的話是找代理老師還是要找其他的老師呢 指代呢都有 因為客戶的不同都會有從外面請代理老師跟校內 原則上是從校外請這樣子會不會造成我們現職人員的一個負擔呢因為他自己老師本身的職務就已經夠重他如果因為同仁請這個育嬰留庭他就必須 或者他就臨時請這個育兒假"},{"start":322.702,"end":345.887,"text":"那結果他必須要來代理的時候可能也增加他們的一個工作的一個重量那請問這樣子會造成是不是很多人想請反而不敢請呢跟委員報告實務上是不會發生啦因為老師來帶他有操縱點校內的話他有操縱點那校外的話有校外的代理老師他也有他的重點"},{"start":346.787,"end":362.324,"text":"所以說操縱點的部分你們也都會給予就對了那在這邊呢就是本席也希望我們考試院全序部人事總署跟教育部能夠承諾這116年育兒新制上路檢公保法留職停薪辦法教師留庭規定職務代理還有"},{"start":364.546,"end":383.722,"text":"代課機制跟預算的配套必須全部同時到位那也就是相關的這個作業跟行政配套如果如果沒有辦法同步完成的話那就表示說總統就是先發布了這樣的一個政策之後結果咧各部會才開始臨時的去做這樣的處理那所以這部分有沒有問題"},{"start":384.403,"end":407.368,"text":"沒有問題我們會來處理好謝謝然後另外呢再請教一下就是友善育兒我們都一直講啊就是不是只有準價兩制必須就像剛剛延伸剛剛的問題必須要讓申請者感情那機關也有能力能夠安排職務代理同事不會被拖垮那業務也不會中斷那但是公務機關長期受員額的管控啦"},{"start":407.848,"end":430.712,"text":"所以預算的限制跟業務的膨脹的夾擊其實基層人力相當吃緊所以如果一個我們的老師或者一個公務人員請育嬰留庭如果沒有真正的補人工作就會影響到其他的同仁身上那這樣的制度上表面是保障了父母可是實際上卻把育兒的成本轉嫁給辦公室的其他的同仁"},{"start":431.312,"end":451.211,"text":"那所以最後有可能造成大家都想請卻不敢請那也失去了我們這個制度的美意所以我想請教一下就是人事總處的陳處長就是育嬰留職停薪期間這個就是我們剛剛已經提到了就是說它的業務或者是只有限職人員代理或兼辦之外也可以用約聘或約僱人員辦理"},{"start":452.392,"end":473.023,"text":"那請問人事總署有沒有統計近五年的公務員的育嬰留庭案件中實際是由約聘僱代理的比例是多少有同仁兼辦的比例是多少報告委員我們目前沒有這個資料我們是不是會後來補充好大概多久的時間大概需要一個月的時間好嗎"},{"start":473.905,"end":496.063,"text":"一個月的時間 請儘快啦 因為為什麼會問這個就是因為我們發覺啦 就是說很多人在講說事實上我們真正由約聘僱來代理的比例相對偏低 然後都是要同仁兼辦那因為這樣的一個狀況之下呢 造成同仁的一個這個整個的職務 受到很大的一個這個壓力那所以呢 也讓"},{"start":496.744,"end":520.038,"text":"真正想請的人不敢請啊所以沒有辦法這個減輕限職人員的負擔反而增加限職人員的負擔所以希望能夠先把這個資料給我那另外呢還有就是說我們的這個就我們公務機關的核心業務啦常常涉及公權力啊採購啊裁罰審查跟個資啊如果找一個短期的這個當然這不是只有教育部我想"},{"start":520.478,"end":539.297,"text":"各部都一样就是不是找一个短期约顾人员就能够立刻上手那请问现行的植物代理是不是有区分为核心业务跟一般业务还是只要有人请假就找人这个同仁兼伴或者是找职代是 报告委员目前限职人员出缺有聘请植物代理人"},{"start":540.038,"end":568.939,"text":"也有有限職人員代理都雙軌經營對 但我剛講的一些核心業務比如說有關的公權力 採購 裁罰 審查跟個資的這個你找一般的這個約聘僱來的話他是不是能夠處理呢約聘僱人員我們也視為是一般的職員也是機關僱用的人員所以說在這方面處理這些比較敏感性的或者一些比較核心業務的部分你們是沒有區分的就對了實務上應該說用人機關他會在工作分配上做一些調配"},{"start":569.739,"end":592.158,"text":"所以在聘請的時候你們就已經會做這樣子的一個審查就對了好那另外就是我們現在喔針對行政院針對民間企業提出的這職務代理喔跟替代人力的會提供一些補助那針對公務的單位呢有沒有這個提供相關的津貼有沒有專案人力啊有沒有另外外加員額"},{"start":594.987,"end":610.612,"text":"報告委員 外加援額目前還在研議啊但因為都是總額管制嘛所以它事實上沒有辦法如果育嬰留庭的話它代表它那個職務是還在的所以就是已經聘用職務代理人了所以外加援額應該是有新增業務的時候"},{"start":611.832,"end":629.921,"text":"那時候才會去考慮新增月份那這樣子就是一樣的問題嗎就是如果他沒有辦法拼到這個就是約拼過要由同仁直帶的時候可能會造成同仁的壓力所以我覺得應該要朝著可以外加元額這樣的方式如果是因為留職挺薪的可以朝著外加元額這樣的方式去做修正"},{"start":630.521,"end":653.304,"text":"好 包含這個我們倒回去研究因為這是我們另外一個業務單位的核心業務好 那因為事實上包括像警消 矯正 社福 衛生第一線的教育行政單位這些不只是說人力吃緊還有就是說他們很多的職務都需要專業的訓練 證照跟執法的資格不是臨時的職待就可以補"},{"start":654.225,"end":675.859,"text":"請問我們統計剛剛提到的這些單位就是他們的育嬰留職的停薪的申請率跟職待率的補食率事實上是不是有這樣子的一個狀況那如果警消請育嬰留停的話職務缺口怎麼補包委員這個人數的相關統計目前沒有我們還需要請主管機關那邊來提供"},{"start":677.185,"end":692.127,"text":"好那是不是也是一樣一個月內是不是可以提供給我們的委員會那當然我想因為最後一個問題就想請教一下就是因為少子化的問題是現在我們要面臨的所以才會提出這樣子的一個配套的一個措施"},{"start":693.348,"end":705.774,"text":"但是我們在這個想請教一下全序部長就是說我們在114年的這個你們的報告裡面就提到說公保的育嬰流執停薪的今天每月平均只有1710"},{"start":708.855,"end":733.208,"text":"一萬七千一百一十八元嘛那其實呢一萬七千多元要怎麼付房租奶粉尿布這個托育費那當然你說行政院還有加發兩成加發兩成的補助也大概就是兩萬二左右跟我們的現在的最低薪資兩萬九千勞工的最低薪資兩萬九千五還有一段的差距那當然我想這次的草案你們有意識到這個問題所以也會針對"},{"start":736.89,"end":763.826,"text":"這個低於如果最低工資的話會補足差額嘛那但是呢兩萬九千五事實上對一個育兒家庭來說其實也是說實在是真的是沒有辦法去承擔所以也沒有辦法解決多數年輕公務人員要育這個請育嬰留庭時準面臨的收入的不足喔那當然這部分的話請問一下部長你們覺得這兩萬九千五可以可以達到這樣的一個需求嗎"},{"start":764.586,"end":787.838,"text":"跟委員報告這確實是一個嚴肅的一個課題那這跟我們的新那個本縫的結構有關係但是今天剛剛也有其他委員提到這個問題我們說這個是我們部裡面會來怎麼想一些可能性現在你希望來提高啦就是提高他的那個如果請玉英留庭的時候的每個月的那個"},{"start":789.659,"end":806.658,"text":"你說你最低的兩萬九千元尤其是會請到雲流亭大概都是年輕的公務人員那年輕的公務人員他的薪俸本來就低了所以他真正能夠領到可能就真的只有兩萬多塊那你說他為了這樣子他為了生小孩留職停薪那這樣他怎麼敢"},{"start":808.331,"end":831.65,"text":"所以變成說少子化的問題還是一樣沒有解決啊所以可能請部長針對這個部分可以針對我們這個最低這個津貼的部分能夠提出一個相對的配套的一個辦法然後另外就是政府一直對外宣稱就是我們這個公教育嬰留庭有剛剛講的80%可是其中20%是依人事總署的補助要點"},{"start":835.373,"end":857.566,"text":"那因為這20%沒有明文這個保障嘛那因為沒有明文保障規定所以如果未來預算不足行政院是不是就會調整縮減甚至停止那這樣的一個狀況啊請問一下就是行政院有沒有對於116年跟未來5年做一個財務的推估那預算有沒有預留經費來源在哪裡呢"},{"start":858.887,"end":885.961,"text":"應該都有放進去我跟委員報這已經推進了好幾年雖然現在是用預算編列的方式不過我想這種政策依我自己在公務機關的一個經驗應該會每年都會都會繼續那所以說針對這個部分的話其實剛剛我想也有一些委員有提出這樣的一個問題他們有提出修法啦那針對提出修法的部分我剛剛聽到部長有講了就是說可能會增加保費的問題就有可能"},{"start":886.201,"end":913.166,"text":"好那如果以不增加保費的話是不是有可能由政府來撥補呢現在就是兩層就是政府來撥補對那未來那你說入法的部分的話就沒有辦法由政府來撥補是這樣嗎對入就一定要有那個那這樣的話 中保準備金來處理那所以這樣子由政府來撥補的話基本上是來因應這樣的開支那就像我剛剛講的那如果行政院忽然又說沒有我們不撥補了好我們要縮減因為財源不足那怎麼辦"},{"start":914.356,"end":921.302,"text":"這已經執行了好幾年了所以部長可以掛保證就對了可以代表行政院長掛保證我沒有辦法代表我只是純粹從我公務的經驗跟預算編列的經驗跟委員報告所以我覺得啦針對這個部分應該還是要說因為多年的經驗但是事實上我們也不曉得每一個行政院長他的想法是什麼但也有可能臨時就說我不撥補了就只剩六成啦所以說"},{"start":939.724,"end":948.13,"text":"所以這次我們也把它入法了啦就是說政府那個就是如果畢竟像說從二變成三那個部分也是由政府來做"},{"start":949.11,"end":972.476,"text":"做這個撥補好那這樣子是不是本席也希望考試院全序部跟人事總處一個月內提出完整的這個財就是行政院這邊也要提出完整的這個財務報告名列這80%津貼的這個法源的安排還有20%的預算補助是不是明文化還有6加3增加的支出5年的推估跟公保基金的影響以及"},{"start":974.296,"end":999.27,"text":"檢討這個保險這個興奉的元額跟興奉的薪額跟實質薪資的一個落差啦我們希望育兒政策不要說是一年一年的看預算的臉色而是要讓年輕父母真的敢生敢養各位委員報告這個提供這個這麼複雜的東西我們一定會做不過這時間上前面我們有有有其他委員有提過說我們都大概三個月一併來做回答好不好好謝謝謝謝部長好謝謝好"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:05:17.998000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:05:18.198000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:05:19.821000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:05:26.391000+08:00","text":"請考試院吳副秘書長，還有銓敘部施部長，以及人事行政總處跟教育部。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-24T11:05:28.293000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:05:31.558000+08:00","text":"麻煩副秘、部長，還有兩個單位的代表。","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T11:05:31.558000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T11:05:36.800000+08:00","text":"委員早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:05:36.800000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T11:05:42.042000+08:00","text":"部長早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:05:42.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:05:51.086000+08:00","text":"賴總統之前在記者會上宣布臺灣人口對策的新戰略，對外宣稱要讓家庭支持從口號變成制度。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:05:52.126000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:06:03.732000+08:00","text":"當然孩子不是滿三歲以後就不用照顧了，從托嬰、幼兒園到上小學前，接送、生病、停課、臨時照顧都是年輕父母會面臨的壓力。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:06:04.693000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:06:26.867000+08:00","text":"不管是公務人員或老師，他們也都是父母，政府既然要求民間企業要建立友善職場，公部門就應該要先做到位，而且如果政策就只是開完記者會之後，法案跟配套都還在路上，最後受傷的依舊是這些第一線年輕父母的公教人員家庭。","quality":0.768},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:06:27.668000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:06:47.084000+08:00","text":"我先請教吳副秘書長，行政院5月28日已經把性別平等工作法跟就業保險法的修正草案送進立法院，但考試院關於公保法的修正草案卻到6月15日才函請行政院會銜，現在也還沒送到立法院。","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:06:47.444000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:06:59.557000+08:00","text":"請問一下，這中間有將近三個禮拜的時間差，是因為賴總統在宣布之前只有跟行政院先討論，沒有跟考試院討論，才會有這樣的時間差嗎？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:06:59.857000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:07:02.480000+08:00","text":"還是因為考試院本身的作業太慢呢？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T11:07:04.163000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:07:05.684000+08:00","text":"我來回答好了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:07:05.684000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T11:07:06.684000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T11:07:05.944000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:07:35.954000+08:00","text":"我想在過程裡面，行政院都有跟我們部裡面做一些溝通、討論，主體就由我們銓敘部跟考選部根據這個需要去發動，我們把案子報到考試院，考試院有作業程序，因為結束之後，考試院要交付到院會裡面去審查，時間差不多三個禮拜，大概就是在6月11日……我記得差不多一個或兩個禮拜就通過考試院院會了，因為我們等於是……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:07:36.515000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:07:37.235000+08:00","text":"現在在行政院？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:07:37.675000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:07:38.596000+08:00","text":"因為還沒送到立法院。","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T11:07:38.736000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:07:40.077000+08:00","text":"6月11日就已經送到行政院去會銜。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:07:40.237000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:07:41.497000+08:00","text":"現在還沒送到立法院？","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T11:07:41.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:07:44.739000+08:00","text":"剛剛有報告說行政院明天會排入他們的院會。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:07:45.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:07:49.702000+08:00","text":"這中間的過程，請問一下在116年能夠同步實施嗎？","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:07:49.862000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:07:50.162000+08:00","text":"時間上來得及嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T11:07:52.151000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:07:52.292000+08:00","text":"來得及。","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T11:07:56.418000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:08:01.265000+08:00","text":"明天院會通過，就回到我們考試院，然後就會直接送立法院了。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:08:02.347000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:08:07.635000+08:00","text":"不要因為不同的機關，有行政院、考試院之差，然後相關的法令有所不同。","quality":0.724},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:08:08.095000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:08:15.283000+08:00","text":"因為性別平等工作法、就業保險法原則上沒問題，公保法也一定要同步修正才能夠執行。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T11:08:15.283000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T11:08:16.283000+08:00","text":"沒問題，我們會同時作業。","quality":0},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:08:15.463000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:08:37.885000+08:00","text":"另外，行政院認為0到6歲都有育兒的照顧需求，你們也希望公保法草案能夠把津貼的年齡延長到7歲，但是我們現在的公務人員留職停薪制度還是以3歲以下為基本架構。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:08:38.225000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:08:41.208000+08:00","text":"請問銓敘部，是不是已經開始啟動公務人員留職停薪辦法的修正？","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T11:08:41.208000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T11:08:42.208000+08:00","text":"我們會配合來修法，修訂這些法令。","quality":0},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:08:41.228000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:08:41.528000+08:00","text":"大概什麼時候？","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T11:08:45.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:08:49.153000+08:00","text":"對我們來講，因為是辦法，這個作業不太困難。","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T11:08:49.514000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:08:57.737000+08:00","text":"但因為我們不了解最後大院修完的具體條文會是什麼，所以我們會那時候再配合，會很快修正。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:08:57.797000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:09:03.540000+08:00","text":"所以等於我們修完並通過之後，你們就會馬上修正。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:09:03.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:09:04.781000+08:00","text":"大概需要多久的時間？","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T11:09:04.781000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T11:09:05.781000+08:00","text":"對，這樣會比較穩當。","quality":0},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T11:09:04.781000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:09:10.063000+08:00","text":"如果辦法修正了，我們很快提到考試院去，可能考試院很快就可以公布了。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:09:10.463000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:09:11.164000+08:00","text":"很快是多久？","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T11:09:15.205000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:09:16.265000+08:00","text":"因為作業程序關係，這個也是要會銜行政院。","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T11:09:17.905000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:09:22.486000+08:00","text":"我們會儘快，一定會努力在明年實施之前把這個事情通通搞定。","quality":0.731},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:09:22.646000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:09:30.768000+08:00","text":"一定要，不然的話，有這樣子的福利、這樣子的津貼，結果卻沒有辦法申請，我覺得這樣子就等於失去了美意。","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T11:09:30.768000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T11:09:31.768000+08:00","text":"報告委員，不會讓這個事情發生。","quality":0},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:09:31.108000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:09:31.968000+08:00","text":"所以還是要請銓敘部一定要加緊腳步。是。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:09:35.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:09:39.310000+08:00","text":"另外，請教一下教育部任副處長。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:09:39.610000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:09:52.612000+08:00","text":"教育部的報告說，教師留職停薪是以學期為單位，但現在的新制都是以日彈性、0到6歲照顧為單位，請問教育部會怎麼樣做配套？","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"任副處長明坤","start":"2026-06-24T11:09:53.212000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:10:02.254000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，因為考慮受教權的問題，所以是以學期為單位，但是老師一樣可以和學校溝通，目前以日申請也可以。","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:10:03.582000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:10:10.147000+08:00","text":"以日的話是找代理老師還是要找其他職代的老師呢？都有。都有。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"任副處長明坤","start":"2026-06-24T11:10:10.567000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:10:12.609000+08:00","text":"因為課務的不同，都會有。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:10:12.609000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T11:10:13.790000+08:00","text":"但是這個部分……","quality":0},{"speaker":"任副處長明坤","start":"2026-06-24T11:10:13.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:10:18.093000+08:00","text":"從外面請代理老師和校內……原則上是從校外……","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:10:18.333000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:10:21.155000+08:00","text":"這樣子會不會造成現職人員的負擔呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:10:21.435000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:10:41.724000+08:00","text":"因為老師本身的職務就已經夠重，如果因為同仁請育嬰留停或者臨時請育兒假，結果老師必須要代理的時候，可能也會增加他們工作的負擔，請問這樣子是不是會造成很多人想請卻不敢請呢？","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"任副處長明坤","start":"2026-06-24T11:10:42.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:10:53.887000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，實務上是不會發生啦，因為校內的老師代理有超鐘點，校外的代理老師也有鐘點。","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:10:54.787000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:10:59.592000+08:00","text":"所以超鐘點的部分你們也都會給予就對了。是。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:10:59.813000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:11:16.610000+08:00","text":"本席在此也希望考試院、銓敘部、人事總處及教育部能夠承諾在116年育兒新制上路前，公保法、留職停薪辦法、教師留停規定、職務代理、代課機制及預算的配套必須全部同時到位。","quality":0.859},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:11:17.871000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:11:31.722000+08:00","text":"相關的作業及行政配套如果沒有辦法同步完成的話，就表示總統先發布了這樣的政策後，各部會才開始臨時做相關處理，所以這個部分有沒有問題？","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T11:11:32.403000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:11:33.423000+08:00","text":"沒有問題，我們會來處理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:11:33.683000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:11:34.083000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:11:34.904000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:11:51.687000+08:00","text":"另外再請教友善育兒的部分，我們都一直在講不是只有「准假」兩個字，延伸剛剛的問題，必須要讓申請者敢請，機關也有能力安排職務代理，同事不會被拖垮，業務也不會中斷。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:11:51.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:12:10.243000+08:00","text":"但是公務機關長期受員額管控、預算限制及業務膨脹的夾擊，其實基層人力相當吃緊，所以當我們的老師或者公務人員申請育嬰留停，如果沒有真正的補充人力，就會影響到其他同仁的工作。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:12:11.344000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:12:24.837000+08:00","text":"這樣的制度表面上是保障了父母，可是實際上卻把育兒的成本轉嫁給辦公室的其他同仁，最後有可能造成大家都想請卻不敢請，也失去了這個制度的美意。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:12:25.158000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:12:49.036000+08:00","text":"我想請教人事總處的陳處長，我們剛剛已經提到了，育嬰留職停薪期間業務是由現職人員代理或兼辦之外，也可以用約聘或約僱人員辦理，請問人事總處有沒有統計近5年公務員的育嬰留停案件中，實際由約聘僱代理的比例是多少？","quality":0.874},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:12:49.777000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:12:51.398000+08:00","text":"由同仁兼辦的比例是多少？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳處長素枝","start":"2026-06-24T11:12:52.218000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:12:55.520000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們目前沒有這個資料，是不是可以會後補充？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:12:55.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:12:59.462000+08:00","text":"好，大概多久的時間？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳處長素枝","start":"2026-06-24T11:12:59.462000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:13:01.023000+08:00","text":"大概需要1個月的時間，好嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:13:02.105000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:13:03.586000+08:00","text":"1個月時間，請儘快。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:13:05.048000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:13:26.265000+08:00","text":"會問這題是因為我們發覺有很多人反映，事實上真正由約聘僱代理的比例相對偏低，都要由同仁兼辦，因為這樣的狀況造成兼辦同仁很大的職務壓力，也讓真正想請的人不敢請。","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:13:26.985000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:13:34.050000+08:00","text":"不僅沒有辦法減輕現職人員的負擔，反而增加現職人員的負擔，所以希望能夠先把這份資料給我。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:13:34.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:13:56.927000+08:00","text":"另外公務機關的核心業務常常涉及公權力、採購、裁罰、審查及個資，如果找一個短期的約僱，當然這不是只有教育部，我想各部都一樣，不是找一個短期約僱人員就能夠立刻上手，請問現行的職務代理是不是有區分核心業務和一般業務？","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:13:57.868000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:14:01.812000+08:00","text":"還是只要有人請假就找同仁兼辦或者找職代？","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"陳處長素枝","start":"2026-06-24T11:14:02.412000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:14:10.200000+08:00","text":"是，報告委員，目前現職人員出缺，有聘請職務代理人，也有由現職人員代理，都雙軌……","quality":0.697},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:14:10.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:14:20.067000+08:00","text":"對，但是我剛剛講的一些核心業務，比如有關公權力、採購、裁罰、審查及個資的業務，找一般的約聘僱人員是不是能夠處理呢？","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"陳處長素枝","start":"2026-06-24T11:14:20.807000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:14:26.471000+08:00","text":"我們也視約聘僱人員為一般的職員，也是機關僱用的人員，所以……","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:14:27.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:14:32.315000+08:00","text":"所以處理這些比較敏感性方面的或者比較核心業務的部分，你們沒有區分就對了？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"陳處長素枝","start":"2026-06-24T11:14:33.056000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:14:36.919000+08:00","text":"實務上用人機關會在工作分配上做一些調配。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:14:37.739000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:14:42.583000+08:00","text":"所以在聘請的時候，你們就已經會做這樣子的審查就對了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳處長素枝","start":"2026-06-24T11:14:42.583000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T11:14:43.583000+08:00","text":"在業務及管理上會做一些調節。","quality":0},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:14:43.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:14:58.216000+08:00","text":"好，另外行政院針對民間企業提出的職務代理及替代人力將提供一些補助，有沒有針對公務單位提供相關的津貼？","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:14:58.216000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:14:59.017000+08:00","text":"有沒有專案人力？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:14:59.317000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:15:00.158000+08:00","text":"有沒有另外外加員額？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳處長素枝","start":"2026-06-24T11:15:02.987000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:15:06.628000+08:00","text":"報告委員，外加員額目前還在研議。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:15:07.308000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:15:09.689000+08:00","text":"因為都是總額管制，所以事實上沒有辦法……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳處長素枝","start":"2026-06-24T11:15:10.589000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:15:21.053000+08:00","text":"對，員額總額管制，但是育嬰留停代表那個職務還在，所以已經聘用職務代理人，外加員額應該是有新增業務的時候才會考慮新增員額。","quality":0.764},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:15:21.713000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:15:37.901000+08:00","text":"對，這樣子就是一樣的問題嘛，如果沒有辦法聘到約聘僱，要由同仁職代的時候可能會造成同仁的壓力，所以我覺得應該朝著可以外加員額的方式，如果是因為留職停薪，可以朝著外加員額的方式修正。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"陳處長素枝","start":"2026-06-24T11:15:38.521000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:15:44.607000+08:00","text":"好，報告委員，這部分我們帶回去研究，因為這是另外一個業務單位的核心業務。","quality":0.781},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:15:44.607000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:16:01.304000+08:00","text":"好，事實上包括像警消、矯正、社福、衛生及第一線的教育行政單位，這些單位不只是人力吃緊，很多職務都需要專業訓練、證照及執法的資格，不是臨時的職代就可以補。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:16:02.225000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:16:11.091000+08:00","text":"請問有沒有統計剛剛提到這些單位的育嬰留職停薪的申請率及職代的補實率？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:16:12.232000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:16:15.294000+08:00","text":"事實上是不是有這樣子的狀況？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:16:15.674000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:16:19.577000+08:00","text":"如果警消請育嬰留停的話，職務缺口怎麼補？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳處長素枝","start":"2026-06-24T11:16:19.797000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:16:23.839000+08:00","text":"報告委員，目前沒有這些人數的相關統計，我們還需要請主管機關提供。","quality":0.759},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:16:25.185000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:16:29.672000+08:00","text":"好，是不是也是一樣1個月內可以提供給我們委員會？是。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:16:31.795000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:16:40.107000+08:00","text":"最後想請教一個問題，因為我們面臨少子化的問題，所以才會提出這樣的配套措施。","quality":0.794},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:16:42.829000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:16:57.156000+08:00","text":"想請教銓敘部部長，在你們114年的報告中提到，公保育嬰留職停薪的津貼每月平均只有1,711……1萬吧。","quality":0.711},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:16:58.536000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:17:05.900000+08:00","text":"1萬7,118元，一萬七千多元要怎麼付房租、奶粉、尿布及托育費？","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:17:06.140000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:17:18.186000+08:00","text":"當然你提到行政院還有加發兩成，加發兩成的補助也大概就是兩萬二左右，跟現在勞工的最低薪資2萬9,500元還有一段差距。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:17:19.207000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:17:43.961000+08:00","text":"我想這次的草案你們有意識到這個問題，所以也有針對如果低於最低工資會補足差額，但是2萬9,500元對一個育兒家庭來說，說實在真的不足以負擔，所以也沒有辦法解決多數年輕公務人員請育嬰留停時所面臨的收入不足問題。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:17:45.502000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:17:51.826000+08:00","text":"這部分請問部長，你們覺得這2萬9,500元可以達到這樣的需求嗎？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T11:17:52.586000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:18:08.274000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這確實是一個嚴肅的課題，這和本俸的結構有關係，剛才也有其他委員提到這個問題，我們部裡面會思考相關的可能性……","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:18:08.474000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:18:09.194000+08:00","text":"對，因為現在你希望……","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T11:18:11.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:18:15.698000+08:00","text":"來提高啦，如果請育嬰留停的時候提高每個月的津貼。","quality":0.682},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:18:17.819000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:18:23.586000+08:00","text":"對啊，最低工資是2萬9,500元，尤其會請到育嬰留停大概都是年輕的公務人員。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T11:18:23.726000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:18:24.006000+08:00","text":"對，年輕人。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:18:24.086000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:18:30.494000+08:00","text":"年輕公務人員的薪俸本來就低了，所以他真正能夠領到可能就只有兩萬多塊。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:18:30.634000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:18:34.638000+08:00","text":"你說他為了生小孩申請留職停薪，這樣他怎麼敢？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:18:37.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:18:50.022000+08:00","text":"變成少子化的問題還是一樣沒有解決，所以請部長針對津貼的部分提出相對的配套辦法。好。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:18:50.843000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:18:59.650000+08:00","text":"另外政府一直對外宣稱公教育嬰留停有剛剛講的80%，可是其中20%是依人事總處的補助要點。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:19:03.833000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:19:14.619000+08:00","text":"因為20%的部分沒有明文保障規定，如果未來預算不足，行政院是不是就會調整、縮減甚至停止？","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:19:16.521000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:19:22.644000+08:00","text":"在此狀況下，請問行政院有沒有對116年及未來5年做財務推估？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:19:23.284000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:19:24.005000+08:00","text":"預算有沒有預留？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:19:24.825000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:19:25.546000+08:00","text":"經費來源在哪裡呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T11:19:26.887000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:19:39.754000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，應該都有放進去，這已經推進了好幾年，雖然現在是用預算編列的方式，不過以我在公務機關的經驗，我想這種政策應該每年都會繼續編列。","quality":0.726},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:19:41.054000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:19:47.117000+08:00","text":"針對這個部分，其實剛剛也有一些委員提出相同的問題並提出要修法。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:19:48.818000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:19:53.441000+08:00","text":"針對修法的部分，我剛才聽到部長講到可能有增加保費的問題……","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T11:19:53.581000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:19:53.941000+08:00","text":"有可能。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:19:54.201000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:19:59.542000+08:00","text":"好，如果不增加保費，是不是有可能由政府撥補呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T11:20:00.862000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:20:03.143000+08:00","text":"現在兩成就是政府撥補了。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:20:03.143000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:20:07.103000+08:00","text":"對，你說入法的部分就沒有辦法由政府撥補，是這樣嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T11:20:07.103000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:20:10.144000+08:00","text":"對，入法就一定要由公保準備金處理。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:20:10.624000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:20:21.166000+08:00","text":"所以由政府撥補，基本上是因應這樣的開支，那就像我剛剛講的，如果行政院忽然又說不撥補了、要縮減，因為財源不足，那怎麼辦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T11:20:22.356000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:20:23.377000+08:00","text":"這已經執行了好幾年，所以我……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:20:23.757000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:20:25.058000+08:00","text":"所以部長可以掛保證就對了，可以代表行政院長掛保證嗎？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T11:20:25.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:20:27.060000+08:00","text":"不是，我沒有辦法代表院長，我只是純粹從我公務的經驗跟預算編列的經驗跟委員報告……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:20:27.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:20:29.282000+08:00","text":"所以我覺得針對這個部分應該還是要說因為多年的經驗……但是事實上我們也不曉得每一個行政院長的想法是什麼，也有可能臨時就說不撥補了，就只剩六成，所以對於銓敘部……","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T11:20:48.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:20:57.990000+08:00","text":"這一次我們也把它入法了，譬如從二變成三，那個部分也是由政府撥補。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:20:57.990000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:21:15.234000+08:00","text":"好，這樣子，本席也希望考試院、銓敘部跟人事總處一個月內提出完整的……就是行政院也要提出完整的財務報告，明列80%津貼這個法源的安排，還有20%的預算補助是不是明文化？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:21:15.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:21:28.720000+08:00","text":"還有六加三增加的支出，五年的推估跟公保基金的影響，以及檢討保險薪俸的薪額跟實質薪資的落差。","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:21:29.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:21:36.684000+08:00","text":"我們希望育兒政策不要一年一年看預算的臉色，而是要讓年輕父母真的敢生、敢養。","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-06-24T11:21:36.844000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:21:46.930000+08:00","text":"是，跟委員報告，提供這麼複雜的一個東西，我們一定會做，只是時間上，前面其他委員有提過，我們都大概三個月，一併回答，好不好？","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-06-24T11:21:46.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:21:47.070000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝部長。謝謝。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-24T11:21:47.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T11:21:47.250000+08:00","text":"謝謝許委員。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-24T11:21:47.750000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T11:21:53.750000+08:00","text":"接下來請蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員，蘇清泉委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-24T11:21:54.050000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T11:21:57.764286+08:00","text":"最後我們有請洪孟楷委員發言。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":756,"blocks":[["許委員宇甄：（11時5分）謝謝主席。請考試院吳副秘書長，還有銓敘部施部長，以及人事行政總處跟教育部。"],["主席：麻煩副秘、部長，還有兩個單位的代表。"],["施部長能傑：委員早。"],["許委員宇甄：部長早。賴總統之前在記者會上宣布臺灣人口對策的新戰略，對外宣稱要讓家庭支持從口號變成制度。當然孩子不是滿三歲以後就不用照顧了，從托嬰、幼兒園到上小學前，接送、生病、停課、臨時照顧都是年輕父母會面臨的壓力。不管是公務人員或老師，他們也都是父母，政府既然要求民間企業要建立友善職場，公部門就應該要先做到位，而且如果政策就只是開完記者會之後，法案跟配套都還在路上，最後受傷的依舊是這些第一線年輕父母的公教人員家庭。","我先請教吳副秘書長，行政院5月28日已經把性別平等工作法跟就業保險法的修正草案送進立法院，但考試院關於公保法的修正草案卻到6月15日才函請行政院會銜，現在也還沒送到立法院。請問一下，這中間有將近三個禮拜的時間差，是因為賴總統在宣布之前只有跟行政院先討論，沒有跟考試院討論，才會有這樣的時間差嗎？還是因為考試院本身的作業太慢呢？"],["施部長能傑：我來回答好了。"],["許委員宇甄：好，謝謝。"],["施部長能傑：我想在過程裡面，行政院都有跟我們部裡面做一些溝通、討論，主體就由我們銓敘部跟考選部根據這個需要去發動，我們把案子報到考試院，考試院有作業程序，因為結束之後，考試院要交付到院會裡面去審查，時間差不多三個禮拜，大概就是在6月11日……我記得差不多一個或兩個禮拜就通過考試院院會了，因為我們等於是……"],["許委員宇甄：現在在行政院？因為還沒送到立法院。"],["施部長能傑：6月11日就已經送到行政院去會銜。"],["許委員宇甄：現在還沒送到立法院？"],["施部長能傑：剛剛有報告說行政院明天會排入他們的院會。"],["許委員宇甄：這中間的過程，請問一下在116年能夠同步實施嗎？時間上來得及嗎？"],["施部長能傑：來得及。明天院會通過，就回到我們考試院，然後就會直接送立法院了。"],["許委員宇甄：不要因為不同的機關，有行政院、考試院之差，然後相關的法令有所不同。因為性別平等工作法、就業保險法原則上沒問題，公保法也一定要同步修正才能夠執行。"],["施部長能傑：沒問題，我們會同時作業。"],["許委員宇甄：另外，行政院認為0到6歲都有育兒的照顧需求，你們也希望公保法草案能夠把津貼的年齡延長到7歲，但是我們現在的公務人員留職停薪制度還是以3歲以下為基本架構。請問銓敘部，是不是已經開始啟動公務人員留職停薪辦法的修正？"],["施部長能傑：我們會配合來修法，修訂這些法令。"],["許委員宇甄：大概什麼時候？"],["施部長能傑：對我們來講，因為是辦法，這個作業不太困難。但因為我們不了解最後大院修完的具體條文會是什麼，所以我們會那時候再配合，會很快修正。"],["許委員宇甄：所以等於我們修完並通過之後，你們就會馬上修正。大概需要多久的時間？"],["施部長能傑：對，這樣會比較穩當。如果辦法修正了，我們很快提到考試院去，可能考試院很快就可以公布了。"],["許委員宇甄：很快是多久？"],["施部長能傑：因為作業程序關係，這個也是要會銜行政院。我們會儘快，一定會努力在明年實施之前把這個事情通通搞定。"],["許委員宇甄：一定要，不然的話，有這樣子的福利、這樣子的津貼，結果卻沒有辦法申請，我覺得這樣子就等於失去了美意。"],["施部長能傑：報告委員，不會讓這個事情發生。"],["許委員宇甄：所以還是要請銓敘部一定要加緊腳步。"],["施部長能傑：是。"],["許委員宇甄：另外，請教一下教育部任副處長。教育部的報告說，教師留職停薪是以學期為單位，但現在的新制都是以日彈性、0到6歲照顧為單位，請問教育部會怎麼樣做配套？"],["任副處長明坤：跟委員報告，因為考慮受教權的問題，所以是以學期為單位，但是老師一樣可以和學校溝通，目前以日申請也可以。"],["許委員宇甄：以日的話是找代理老師還是要找其他職代的老師呢？"],["任副處長明坤：都有。"],["許委員宇甄：都有。"],["任副處長明坤：因為課務的不同，都會有。"],["許委員宇甄：但是這個部分……"],["任副處長明坤：從外面請代理老師和校內……原則上是從校外……"],["許委員宇甄：這樣子會不會造成現職人員的負擔呢？因為老師本身的職務就已經夠重，如果因為同仁請育嬰留停或者臨時請育兒假，結果老師必須要代理的時候，可能也會增加他們工作的負擔，請問這樣子是不是會造成很多人想請卻不敢請呢？"],["任副處長明坤：跟委員報告，實務上是不會發生啦，因為校內的老師代理有超鐘點，校外的代理老師也有鐘點。"],["許委員宇甄：所以超鐘點的部分你們也都會給予就對了。"],["任副處長明坤：是。"],["許委員宇甄：本席在此也希望考試院、銓敘部、人事總處及教育部能夠承諾在116年育兒新制上路前，公保法、留職停薪辦法、教師留停規定、職務代理、代課機制及預算的配套必須全部同時到位。相關的作業及行政配套如果沒有辦法同步完成的話，就表示總統先發布了這樣的政策後，各部會才開始臨時做相關處理，所以這個部分有沒有問題？"],["施部長能傑：沒有問題，我們會來處理。"],["許委員宇甄：好，謝謝。另外再請教友善育兒的部分，我們都一直在講不是只有「准假」兩個字，延伸剛剛的問題，必須要讓申請者敢請，機關也有能力安排職務代理，同事不會被拖垮，業務也不會中斷。但是公務機關長期受員額管控、預算限制及業務膨脹的夾擊，其實基層人力相當吃緊，所以當我們的老師或者公務人員申請育嬰留停，如果沒有真正的補充人力，就會影響到其他同仁的工作。這樣的制度表面上是保障了父母，可是實際上卻把育兒的成本轉嫁給辦公室的其他同仁，最後有可能造成大家都想請卻不敢請，也失去了這個制度的美意。","我想請教人事總處的陳處長，我們剛剛已經提到了，育嬰留職停薪期間業務是由現職人員代理或兼辦之外，也可以用約聘或約僱人員辦理，請問人事總處有沒有統計近5年公務員的育嬰留停案件中，實際由約聘僱代理的比例是多少？由同仁兼辦的比例是多少？"],["陳處長素枝：報告委員，我們目前沒有這個資料，是不是可以會後補充？"],["許委員宇甄：好，大概多久的時間？"],["陳處長素枝：大概需要1個月的時間，好嗎？"],["許委員宇甄：1個月時間，請儘快。會問這題是因為我們發覺有很多人反映，事實上真正由約聘僱代理的比例相對偏低，都要由同仁兼辦，因為這樣的狀況造成兼辦同仁很大的職務壓力，也讓真正想請的人不敢請。不僅沒有辦法減輕現職人員的負擔，反而增加現職人員的負擔，所以希望能夠先把這份資料給我。","另外公務機關的核心業務常常涉及公權力、採購、裁罰、審查及個資，如果找一個短期的約僱，當然這不是只有教育部，我想各部都一樣，不是找一個短期約僱人員就能夠立刻上手，請問現行的職務代理是不是有區分核心業務和一般業務？還是只要有人請假就找同仁兼辦或者找職代？"],["陳處長素枝：是，報告委員，目前現職人員出缺，有聘請職務代理人，也有由現職人員代理，都雙軌……"],["許委員宇甄：對，但是我剛剛講的一些核心業務，比如有關公權力、採購、裁罰、審查及個資的業務，找一般的約聘僱人員是不是能夠處理呢？"],["陳處長素枝：我們也視約聘僱人員為一般的職員，也是機關僱用的人員，所以……"],["許委員宇甄：所以處理這些比較敏感性方面的或者比較核心業務的部分，你們沒有區分就對了？"],["陳處長素枝：實務上用人機關會在工作分配上做一些調配。"],["許委員宇甄：所以在聘請的時候，你們就已經會做這樣子的審查就對了？"],["陳處長素枝：在業務及管理上會做一些調節。"],["許委員宇甄：好，另外行政院針對民間企業提出的職務代理及替代人力將提供一些補助，有沒有針對公務單位提供相關的津貼？有沒有專案人力？有沒有另外外加員額？"],["陳處長素枝：報告委員，外加員額目前還在研議。"],["許委員宇甄：因為都是總額管制，所以事實上沒有辦法……"],["陳處長素枝：對，員額總額管制，但是育嬰留停代表那個職務還在，所以已經聘用職務代理人，外加員額應該是有新增業務的時候才會考慮新增員額。"],["許委員宇甄：對，這樣子就是一樣的問題嘛，如果沒有辦法聘到約聘僱，要由同仁職代的時候可能會造成同仁的壓力，所以我覺得應該朝著可以外加員額的方式，如果是因為留職停薪，可以朝著外加員額的方式修正。"],["陳處長素枝：好，報告委員，這部分我們帶回去研究，因為這是另外一個業務單位的核心業務。"],["許委員宇甄：好，事實上包括像警消、矯正、社福、衛生及第一線的教育行政單位，這些單位不只是人力吃緊，很多職務都需要專業訓練、證照及執法的資格，不是臨時的職代就可以補。請問有沒有統計剛剛提到這些單位的育嬰留職停薪的申請率及職代的補實率？事實上是不是有這樣子的狀況？如果警消請育嬰留停的話，職務缺口怎麼補？"],["陳處長素枝：報告委員，目前沒有這些人數的相關統計，我們還需要請主管機關提供。"],["許委員宇甄：好，是不是也是一樣1個月內可以提供給我們委員會？"],["陳處長素枝：是。"],["許委員宇甄：最後想請教一個問題，因為我們面臨少子化的問題，所以才會提出這樣的配套措施。想請教銓敘部部長，在你們114年的報告中提到，公保育嬰留職停薪的津貼每月平均只有1,711……"],["施部長能傑：1萬吧。"],["許委員宇甄：1萬7,118元，一萬七千多元要怎麼付房租、奶粉、尿布及托育費？當然你提到行政院還有加發兩成，加發兩成的補助也大概就是兩萬二左右，跟現在勞工的最低薪資2萬9,500元還有一段差距。我想這次的草案你們有意識到這個問題，所以也有針對如果低於最低工資會補足差額，但是2萬9,500元對一個育兒家庭來說，說實在真的不足以負擔，所以也沒有辦法解決多數年輕公務人員請育嬰留停時所面臨的收入不足問題。這部分請問部長，你們覺得這2萬9,500元可以達到這樣的需求嗎？"],["施部長能傑：跟委員報告，這確實是一個嚴肅的課題，這和本俸的結構有關係，剛才也有其他委員提到這個問題，我們部裡面會思考相關的可能性……"],["許委員宇甄：對，因為現在你希望……"],["施部長能傑：來提高啦，如果請育嬰留停的時候提高每個月的津貼。"],["許委員宇甄：對啊，最低工資是2萬9,500元，尤其會請到育嬰留停大概都是年輕的公務人員。"],["施部長能傑：對，年輕人。"],["許委員宇甄：年輕公務人員的薪俸本來就低了，所以他真正能夠領到可能就只有兩萬多塊。你說他為了生小孩申請留職停薪，這樣他怎麼敢？變成少子化的問題還是一樣沒有解決，所以請部長針對津貼的部分提出相對的配套辦法。"],["施部長能傑：好。"],["許委員宇甄：另外政府一直對外宣稱公教育嬰留停有剛剛講的80%，可是其中20%是依人事總處的補助要點。因為20%的部分沒有明文保障規定，如果未來預算不足，行政院是不是就會調整、縮減甚至停止？在此狀況下，請問行政院有沒有對116年及未來5年做財務推估？預算有沒有預留？經費來源在哪裡呢？"],["施部長能傑：跟委員報告，應該都有放進去，這已經推進了好幾年，雖然現在是用預算編列的方式，不過以我在公務機關的經驗，我想這種政策應該每年都會繼續編列。"],["許委員宇甄：針對這個部分，其實剛剛也有一些委員提出相同的問題並提出要修法。針對修法的部分，我剛才聽到部長講到可能有增加保費的問題……"],["施部長能傑：有可能。"],["許委員宇甄：好，如果不增加保費，是不是有可能由政府撥補呢？"],["施部長能傑：現在兩成就是政府撥補了。"],["許委員宇甄：對，你說入法的部分就沒有辦法由政府撥補，是這樣嗎？"],["施部長能傑：對，入法就一定要由公保準備金處理。"],["許委員宇甄：所以由政府撥補，基本上是因應這樣的開支，那就像我剛剛講的，如果行政院忽然又說不撥補了、要縮減，因為財源不足，那怎麼辦？"],["施部長能傑：這已經執行了好幾年，所以我……"],["許委員宇甄：所以部長可以掛保證就對了，可以代表行政院長掛保證嗎？"],["施部長能傑：不是，我沒有辦法代表院長，我只是純粹從我公務的經驗跟預算編列的經驗跟委員報告……"],["許委員宇甄：所以我覺得針對這個部分應該還是要說因為多年的經驗……但是事實上我們也不曉得每一個行政院長的想法是什麼，也有可能臨時就說不撥補了，就只剩六成，所以對於銓敘部……"],["施部長能傑：這一次我們也把它入法了，譬如從二變成三，那個部分也是由政府撥補。"],["許委員宇甄：好，這樣子，本席也希望考試院、銓敘部跟人事總處一個月內提出完整的……就是行政院也要提出完整的財務報告，明列80%津貼這個法源的安排，還有20%的預算補助是不是明文化？還有六加三增加的支出，五年的推估跟公保基金的影響，以及檢討保險薪俸的薪額跟實質薪資的落差。我們希望育兒政策不要一年一年看預算的臉色，而是要讓年輕父母真的敢生、敢養。"],["施部長能傑：是，跟委員報告，提供這麼複雜的一個東西，我們一定會做，只是時間上，前面其他委員有提過，我們都大概三個月，一併回答，好不好？"],["許委員宇甄：好，謝謝部長。"],["施部長能傑：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝許委員。","接下來請蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員，蘇清泉委員不在。","最後我們有請洪孟楷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":62,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-36-20","speakers":["翁曉玲","王安祥","林沛祥","陳昭姿","沈發惠","范雲","莊瑞雄","張雅琳","許宇甄","洪孟楷","蔡其昌","吳宗憲","傅崐萁","林倩綺"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2026-06-24"],"gazette_id":"1155501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155501_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請考試院秘書長、銓敘部部長、行政院人事行政總處、教育部、勞動部針對「我國育嬰留\n職停薪實施成效與擴大育嬰津貼政策」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、併案審查(一)委員羅智強\n等19人擬具「公教人員保險法第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員黃健豪等18人擬具「公教\n人員保險法第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「公教人員保險法第十二\n條及第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(四)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「公教人員保險法部分條文修正草\n案」案、(五)委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「公教人員保險法第三十五條及第五十一條條文修正草案」\n案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1155501_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}