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我請教育部長廖萬堅次長好 有請次長"},{"start":20.816,"end":48.781,"text":"委員好市長好這個今天我們的質詢主題是校師會議教師輔導管教制度學校權益相關的討論那事實上我想很多的今天的討論源起於就是2019年教師法的修法那我發了那個時候的報紙這個全版的當時這個報紙下一個標題說教師與家長兩台火車對撞那我想對於教育來講我們最希望的是"},{"start":50.022,"end":57.013,"text":"教師、家長、學生、校方大家在同一台列車上才能夠安全的往前來前進"},{"start":60.931,"end":83.156,"text":"2023年這也是在我進入立法院之前我們教委會就有辦過一場公聘會我看當時的洪維斌執行長他指出說解聘辦法上路前後的差別他們感受到的是第一個就是說過往學校在處理師生管教事件第一個首重的是輔導先行那溝通理解"},{"start":84.056,"end":103.075,"text":"那有時候這可以迅速來解決相關的爭議不過他們感受到的是教師解評辦法上路之後好像投訴案件是不分輕重大小只要有投訴案如果沒有調查報告沒有懲處的這個審議好像主管機關就不給他們解除列管所以好像只要有投訴"},{"start":104.016,"end":117.466,"text":"就要有這個結果出來所以當時他們就建議說投訴案件應該要分流來處理那麼直到昨天全教總在記者會上面我覺得指出問題同樣是一樣的就是說"},{"start":118.908,"end":138.947,"text":"教師不是拒絕監督而是說當體制陷入了一個防衛的氛圍有時候這個調查的時間已經給他們造成很大的心理的壓力所以我們最重要就是分流跟防止濫訴那教育部你們也看到這個問題所以今年1月我們最主要修辦法就是在解決這個問題你們做了哪些調整"},{"start":141.651,"end":155.96,"text":"我想在書面報告裡面也提到了就是包括取消了匿名投訴還有那個大小案的分流還有增加輔佐人機制還有很多的相關的措施我想這個在上路之後我們也"},{"start":157.701,"end":181.515,"text":"初步看到就是說這個投訴的案件減少然後在分流之後就是過去的投訴案件跟現在投訴案件比起來降了大概55%然後送到消失會議的剩下22%所以我們是看那個數字的趨向就是說我們在聽了很多各界的意見包括老師的意見之後做了修正之後"},{"start":182.455,"end":200.48,"text":"初步是有感受到那個分流有造成那個結果這個數字是有在減少不過呢這個拒絕爛訴這個讓他的理由可以更明確我覺得這個還是教育部要來去協助校方的那我覺得我們可以參考幾個機制第一個是這個我們司法機關"},{"start":201.38,"end":226.207,"text":"其實有這個機制像例如我們民事訴訟法我們行政訴訟法都有明確去定義爛訴什麼是爛訴比如說基於惡意你是來報復的你不當目的中大過失等等有一個明確的定義但這些都還是抽象的所以法院在做的時候它會有實務見解依據過去的一些案例把它整理出來如果是屬於這些案例的經驗我過去就已經判定它是爛訴了那我未來你只要進來的時候我也許可以參考這個及這個過去的解釋"},{"start":230.788,"end":245.62,"text":"所以我是建議教育部我們是不是可以來去整理跟收集你們過去相關的這些裁判跟是決議讓未來學校他去判定因為學校也有壓力嘛我如果說這個是爛數等一下人家說我吃爛怎麼辦"},{"start":246.721,"end":264.753,"text":"所以怎麼樣它可以合理我建議你們可以去收集相關的資料然後讓學校更明確能夠去定義能夠去設定一個標準那再來是說像日本跟韓國有一個制度我其實覺得很不錯就是學校律師"},{"start":265.954,"end":292.657,"text":"剛剛前面司法委員持續也有提到給教師支持法律支持也是很重要那韓國他們也是這兩年才上路的嘛他學校律師主要是給教師的支持系統就當老師遇到法律糾紛的時候這個學校律師可以來提供資訊日本的方式他的學校律師他是由日本的律師聯合會等於是律師公會來主動跟校園來合作簽約嘛那他的角色比較像調解人"},{"start":293.297,"end":311.548,"text":"還是要以兒童的最佳利益來協助學校就是說學校在很多投訴實際案件發生之前的時候有發生相關的狀況可能學校律師就可以來協助這部分教育部有沒有了解委員剛來媒體也問我這個問題就是說我們在公聽會跟座談會的時候事實上也有老師"},{"start":312.368,"end":338.361,"text":"做團體提到就說有這樣的一個機制所以我當時也說我支持就是說我們會來研議就是說在我們教書法修法之後雖然有把這個教師心理智商輔導的這個建制納進去那我們現在是不是也可以仿照韓國日本這樣的模式在跟工協會一起合作或者是跟這個縣市政府看他們能不能提供一些比較也有專業素養譬如我們現在有一些講習的"},{"start":339.662,"end":361.58,"text":"做那個不適任教師的那些人才我覺得教育部可以趕快來研議甚至我們主動來跟律師公會律師聯合會他們來討論我們在朝這個方向會來努力來協助那這部分我想就是橫貧啦就是說不要讓老師覺得好像說我只要只要好像被投訴我就是有罪推定那種感受雖然"},{"start":363.561,"end":383.506,"text":"有的外界不認為是這樣但他們會有那種感受所以如果說我們能夠比較熟悉校園法令的律師能夠在各縣市都建立諮詢系統甚至呢遇到一些法律事件的時候能夠幫他們爭取權益我覺得這是一個一個橫平而且是適當的措施我們會去研議而且現在已經在"},{"start":384.506,"end":403.912,"text":"再想辦法來明年看能不能就開始這個學校律師這個制度我想很重要那確實如次長剛剛講的這個主觀感受有時候各有不同所以訂定明確的標準我覺得很重要那麼其中今天要特別提出來討論就是有關於這個最早這個1995年訂教師法的時候裡面就有"},{"start":405.993,"end":427.093,"text":"教學不立這個法律這個名詞那麼我們在修教師法的時候當時教學不立是不是要納進來我們這個停解聘的這個調查程序當中其實也多有所討論那我今天要特別來提醒次長的是因為當時本來教師不立你們這個教學不立後面的流程你有一個專審會"},{"start":428.934,"end":456.186,"text":"專審會主要的制度是來輔導嘛對不對因為我希望他提升教學品質假設真的教學不利我要他改善我要能夠來輔導協助他但是後來你們帶入了這個校師會議機制之後前面就開始先調查了但是呢當時在修教師法的時候其實立法院有給一個附帶決議要求教育部針對教學不利要去做更明確的定義結果呢我去把它翻出來看了"},{"start":457.185,"end":484.33,"text":"在修法前後你們關於教學不利教育部有沒有去調整有沒有去設定更明確的標準沒有耶你們只是把教學不利的定義本來12項改成11項刪掉了1項就是因重病那其他的例如說這個好例如說親師溝通不良情結嚴重者請問溝通不良要怎麼定義什麼樣叫做情結嚴重然後呢這個教學行為失當請問什麼樣的行為叫做失當"},{"start":486.75,"end":503.385,"text":"然後呢 你班級經營欠佳這個也叫教學不力怎麼樣班級經營叫欠佳當時立法院2019年就已經要求你們教育部要去訂定更明確的標準市長 當時您也是立法委員您也是這個附帶決議的連署人"},{"start":505.768,"end":517.702,"text":"所以我今天必須要提醒教育部你們並沒有依照當時立法院的審查這個修法的附帶結語去把教學規定定的更明確我請署長說明一下好請說明委員長這一個的確非常的重要所以在當年齁"},{"start":521.767,"end":540.74,"text":"以至於附帶決議就去找法治專家幫我們演繹在前言裡面就去做一點跟以前不一樣的區隔並且在條文內有條文不同的這個敘寫但是我們講得很好所以這一次在輔導管教的注意是向上就要對這一類包含老師的班級經營輔導管教跟教學的進行"},{"start":543.301,"end":547.387,"text":"這都慢了啦2019年就要做的事這個在實務上這個你們比我們更清楚你定義不明確的時候在實務上就會造成很多的糾紛那最後一點就是我要拜託教育部的有關於教師的行政減量這個教育部也很重視你們也開了分區座談會嘛"},{"start":560.143,"end":565.325,"text":"好 當時這個單頭縣的這個教師有提出幾個建議後來呢單頭縣政府確實也公告 例如說這個交案不用再交了然後這個課程計畫本來就是備審結果地方政府一堆都把他搞了十字審查來回修改就花一堆時間我現在要拜託教育部的是說這個你們 我們國教署可不可以你們可不可以用這個行政命令的行政辦法的行政指導的方式你們直接來公告了啦"},{"start":584.452,"end":605.191,"text":"因為現在好多縣市政府你知道他們的那個老師都在tag他們的首長說啊拜託一下看到南投縣有這個公告好羨慕連我們蔣灣市長也都被老師tag他說台北市什麼時候要跟進每個縣市都在問那其實我們都認為是對的事情要做的是不是教育部可以趕快跟這個地方政府來溝通行政指導有一些我們有共識的就可以來先行了"},{"start":605.771,"end":620.659,"text":"委員講這個其實在兩個月前我們就處理一波但是委員有特別講到地方政府應該有更明確的態度這個我們來瞭解實務上他拿到那個函之後他們具體的做法怎麼樣因為現在到七月份我們要讓他們確實可以去落實趕快來跟地方政府討論大家發函你們就發函對沒錯謝謝委員謝謝市長謝謝趙委員謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}