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謝謝次長我想大家今天其實都非常關注有關於校式會議啦那我想這件事情其實我們從去年討論到現在那我自己其實大概也整理了一下校式會議被詬病的就是像小安大辦啦 未達停聘解聘啊然後輔導先行啊然後那個主張應該要徵定青獅生衝突協調前置程序那其實這六項大概是我們目前的新版的"},{"start":37.288,"end":61.794,"text":"的施行辦法其實都有一些相對應的措施那我也跟教育部有所知其實這個數量也是有減少的那但是我想這個民間還是有很多疑慮有很多的質疑所以這個部分呢是不是可以不知道教育部有沒有預估什麼時候我們再重新評估一次現行的校式會議的一個辦法然後再做修正我們就是7月底"},{"start":63.194,"end":91.275,"text":"好 那就在七月的時候呢我也是希望說是不是可以把這個其實有很多的團體也有主張是不是考慮第三方機制這在之前其實我也都說過了很多次最主要是說像我自己去了澳洲我也有詢問我跟范委員去澳洲的時候也有去詢問說他們如何處理這樣子的問題那其實他們教育部也有回應到就是說現在即便是在澳洲親師之間的一些相關的衝突老師的壓力也其實都是在增加的"},{"start":92.771,"end":110.064,"text":"所以我在想就是說其實其他的國家都有面臨到相對的狀況我這邊就有提供了一些其他國家的制度來提供我們教育部來參考就是說都不應該是由學校來自行的調查因為這真的會增加大家的不信任感而且在現場的衝突"},{"start":111.585,"end":125.655,"text":"也都會是比較嚴重的那像是我們的校長協會又提供到這個校園律師所以我希望說這一部分的改革的核心制度呢是不是可以讓這個制度更公平是不是可以請教育部來參考我的這樣子的一個想法"},{"start":126.232,"end":144.487,"text":"是,我們會來列入原意,也許是第三方機制,大概很多委員都提到,我們會認真來評估。好,那另外一個部分就是說,針對於證券最近有提供到針對於依托名職入校的一個反讀政策,就是會增設一個叫做第五級保全。"},{"start":144.707,"end":172.379,"text":"但是民間也有一些想法就是第五級保全我們的認定它到底是一個保全還是一個查緝人員那它到底是做校園門禁安全巡查還是協助查緝毒品那如果只是校園保全那就不能夠有警察權不能夠盤查學生也不能夠搜索書包不能要求學生尿檢也不能調閱或收集學生個資那這個"},{"start":173.9,"end":190.935,"text":"到底我們的定位是什麼呢?可不可以請教一步簡單說明我想第五級保全是因為行政院召開跨部會這個反讀會議的時候企圖會議的時候去提到校安的問題就是說如果我們的這個學校部分如果有需要的話可以來這個考慮"},{"start":194.117,"end":215.151,"text":"當然我們目前學校的校安其實已經有相當的機制包括說我們的學安人員、校安人員等等我們也不斷在補助相關的人員的人力剛才很多委員很關心我們跟警察本來就有一個機制就是說如果學校發生了重大的刑案或者說"},{"start":215.911,"end":231.518,"text":"有基於偵辦的需要的話會依照內政部的程序邀請警察進入學校辦案而且學校的主任級以上也要陪同才能夠進入學校而且要以不妨礙學生的最小的妨礙影響原則"},{"start":233.339,"end":252.378,"text":"大概會有一套機制所以第五級保全應該是行政院看到整個像依托彌子這種危害社會然後引起心理很大的壓力他認為說如果學校有必要的話可以考量所以我們在目前為止我們現行的校安體系的人力我們不足我們會補啦"},{"start":254.46,"end":281.026,"text":"那我想就是說因為大家其實非常關注校園的這個一駝名指的問題那我也非常肯定我們要拿出有魄力的做法來去面對但是因為我們現在就像剛剛次長你有提到我們本來就有學務創新人力我們有校安人力那目前的這些配額跟缺額其實我認為這才是我們應該要來緊急關注解決的重點以及它的流動率那這部分其實呢還有待遇是否足以留才我認為這些都應該要來"},{"start":284.167,"end":310.019,"text":"那這部分的話應該有相對應的檢討是不是有檢討的報告可以提供到我們辦公室呢好我們在一個月內好不好一個月內好謝謝那還有就是說我也要一個提醒就是毒品查緝當然非常重要但是呢雖然有跟警察去配合但我想這部分還是要照我們既有的流程來走避免就是說因為孩子直接就被帶走因為可能警察懷疑有情資覺得他說他有問題"},{"start":310.979,"end":335.569,"text":"他就被搜查就最後證明沒有問題會對他的同儕關係心理狀態學習都會造成非常大的影響那再來就是說呢還有HIV的這個校車司機的新聞事件我想這也是引起了很多社會的關注那這個東西其實我想上禮拜其實其他的委員也有討論過那我現在只想要出現幾個重要的問題我們現行制度其實是有一個查核規定但是我們有一個"},{"start":337.086,"end":357.803,"text":"漏洞在于外包人员有没有落实以及落实定期查核的机制那第二个就是说我们现在的不适任教育人员资料库要怎么样能够查得到查得准查得及时依据我们现在不适任教育人员的通报资讯收集及查询处理利用办法其实是有要求学校禁用"},{"start":358.744,"end":385.93,"text":"運用人力的時候要查詢性別資料庫性別事件資料庫還有不是人員資料庫短期補習班 教保服務這些其實通通都可以透過像法務部警政署設證來查詢記錄但是呢 這個問題就在於這個嫌犯其實已經有嫌苛可是我們卻查不到還是沒有查那教育部目前的掌握到底是什麼來 待會請學生組 來 署長在學校裡面的這個我請那個"},{"start":387.689,"end":410.208,"text":"業務單位來回我先回一下這個案子在疫調中所以疫調的過程他被衛福部視為某種情形他就不肯那目前還沒辦法給我們名單但是那天有跟昭緯報告我們七天內那個名單沒有給我們我們還是可以用一種譬如學校自行禁用為學校人員"},{"start":410.768,"end":429.175,"text":"或委外我們各種的模擬把它都列出來之後我們照委員的要求從他的禁用運用就是剛進來到定期查詢或我們外加不定期查詢以及查詢平台有沒有借接好這三個步驟全面解釋我們說七天內會回覆委員會"},{"start":433.857,"end":453.372,"text":"因為這個其實就是看我們到底有沒有界階然後我們到底有沒有定期所以接下來我就要要求教育部可以立刻來清查全國的各級學校補習班 課照中心的學生交通車的駕駛人名冊是否都已經全部了完成不適用資料庫性侵害防罪紀錄以及相關資料的查核"},{"start":454.353,"end":481.471,"text":"有有這個已經在處理我們要不要講一下沒關係我一次講完你一次回答好不好那第二個就是說我們要要求地方政府盤點現在的外包校車的契約民定業者更換駕駛者必須事先報備要重新查核不能夠自己私底下講好待班就結束了那第三個就是說針對於本案的受害者要有長期的支持雖然說疾管署已經有說會提供衛教諮詢篩檢跟就醫治療"},{"start":484.274,"end":492.515,"text":"但是我想這個學籍就學心理輔導在學校端教育部還是要來協助好不好那這三個是不是可以請輔教署嗎"},{"start":494.127,"end":494.648,"text":"那對於學生的支持的部分呢?"},{"start":515.327,"end":532.869,"text":"学生的这个支持在我们原有的辅导系统只要在我们能处理的这个报案名单我们也知道的话我们会用原来的辅导专业去保护而且照顾这个孩子在心理上的这个需求好所以等到名单应该是之后才会拿到嘛对不对对好了解好谢谢好谢谢"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-24T12:00:51.429000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:00:51.810000+08:00","text":"（12時）謝謝主席，有請次長。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-24T12:00:51.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:00:52.131000+08:00","text":"有請次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:00:52.131000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:00:57.564000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-24T12:00:58.024000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:01:25.869000+08:00","text":"謝謝次長，我想大家今天其實都非常關注校事會議，這件事情其實從去年討論到現在，我自己大概也整理了一下校事會議被詬病的，像是小案大辦、未達停聘解聘、輔導先行、主張應該要增訂親師生衝突協調前置程序等六項，這些在目前新版的施行辦法中其實都有相對應的措施。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-24T12:01:26.809000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:01:47.414000+08:00","text":"我跟教育部也有索資，這個數量也是有減少，但是我想民間還是有很多疑慮與質疑，所以這個部分是不是可以……不知道教育部有沒有預估什麼時候我們可以再重新評估一次現行的校事會議辦法，然後再做修正？","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:01:47.534000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:01:47.774000+08:00","text":"我們就是7月底前。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-24T12:01:49.194000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:01:58.141000+08:00","text":"好，那就希望在7月的時候可以把這個……其實有很多團體也主張是不是可以考慮引入第三方機制，這在之前我也都說過很多次了。","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-24T12:01:58.461000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:02:17.255000+08:00","text":"最主要是我和范雲委員去澳洲的時候也有去詢問他們是如何處理這樣的問題，他們教育部其實也回應，現在即便是在澳洲，親師生之間的一些相關衝突、老師的壓力也都是在增加的。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-24T12:02:19.452000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:02:51.635000+08:00","text":"我在想，其他國家都有面臨到相對的狀況，我這裡就有提供一些其他國家的制度給教育部參考，不應該由學校自行調查，因為這真的會增加大家的不信任感，而且現場的衝突也都是會比較嚴重的，像是校長協會都有提到校園律師，我希望這部分改革的核心制度能讓這個制度更公平，是不是可以請教育部參考我的想法？","quality":0.954},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:02:52.232000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:02:59.178000+08:00","text":"是，我們會列入研議，尤其是第三方機制，這點很多委員都有提到，我們會認真評估。","quality":0.788},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-24T12:03:01.019000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:03:13.108000+08:00","text":"另外一個部分，針對政院最近提到依托咪酯入校的反毒政策，要增設第五級保全，但是民間也有一些想法。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-24T12:03:13.628000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:03:20.191000+08:00","text":"有關第五級保全在認定上，他到底是一個保全還是一個查緝人員？","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-24T12:03:21.032000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:03:26.514000+08:00","text":"他到底是做校園門禁安全巡查還是協助查緝毒品？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-24T12:03:27.254000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:03:43.343000+08:00","text":"如果只是校園保全，那就不能有警察權，不能盤查學生，也不能夠搜索書包，不能要求學生尿檢，也不能調閱或蒐集學生個資，所以我們對這個的定位到底是什麼，可不可以請教育部簡單說明？","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:03:44.244000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:03:56.935000+08:00","text":"第五級保全是因為行政院在召開跨部會反毒會議的時候，在緝毒上提到了校安的問題，所以學校如果有需要的話可以考慮。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:04:00.117000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:04:14.186000+08:00","text":"當然目前學校的校安已經有相當的機制了，包括學安人員、校安人員等等，我們都不斷在補助相關人員的人力，這個剛才很多委員都很關心。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:04:14.646000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:04:40.340000+08:00","text":"我們跟警察本來就有一個機制在，如果學校發生了重大的刑案，或是基於偵辦的需要，會依照內政部的程序，邀請警察進入學校辦案，而且要有學校主任級以上的人陪同他們才能進入學校，同時對學生還要以最小妨礙的影響為原則，大概會有一套機制。","quality":0.835},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:04:40.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:04:51.731000+08:00","text":"所以第五級保全應該是行政院看到像依托咪酯這種會危害社會、引起心理很大的壓力，認為學校如果有必要的話就可以考量。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:04:52.372000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:04:58.358000+08:00","text":"所以到目前為止，對於現行校安體系的人力，如有不足我們都會補。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-24T12:04:58.358000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T12:05:01.380000+08:00","text":"了解，我懂。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-24T12:05:01.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:05:27.006000+08:00","text":"因為大家其實非常關注校園依托咪酯的問題，我也非常肯定你們拿出有魄力的做法去面對，但是因為現在就像剛剛次長提到的，我們本來就有學務創新人力，我們有校安人力，對於目前的這些配額、缺額及其流動率，還有待遇是否足以留才，我認為這些才是我們應該要積極關注、解決的重點，這些都應該要檢討。","quality":0.772},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:05:27.006000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T12:05:30.707000+08:00","text":"對，這個我們會強化。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-24T12:05:30.707000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:05:35.509000+08:00","text":"這部分應該有相對應的檢討了，是不是有檢討的報告可以提供到我們辦公室呢？","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-24T12:05:35.509000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T12:05:36.509000+08:00","text":"大概多久之內可以提供？","quality":0},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:05:36.229000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:05:38.871000+08:00","text":"好，我們在一個月內，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-24T12:05:39.651000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:05:40.491000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-24T12:05:41.312000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:05:49.796000+08:00","text":"我還有一個提醒，毒品查緝當然非常重要，雖然有跟警察配合，但我想這部分還是要照我們既有的流程來走。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:05:49.796000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T12:05:50.796000+08:00","text":"是，沒有錯，它有一定的流程。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-24T12:05:50.636000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:06:02.841000+08:00","text":"避免孩子就直接被帶走，因為警察可能懷疑，有情資說他有問題，於是他就被搜查，結果最後證明沒有問題，這對他的同儕關係、心理狀態、學習都會造成非常大的影響。","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:06:02.841000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T12:06:03.841000+08:00","text":"沒有錯、沒有錯，對、對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-24T12:06:03.061000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:06:11.865000+08:00","text":"再來，還有HIV校車司機的新聞事件，這也是引起了很多社會關注。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-24T12:06:13.486000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:06:18.908000+08:00","text":"這個東西，我想上禮拜其他委員也有討論過，我現在只想要凸顯幾個重要問題。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-24T12:06:18.908000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:06:34.976000+08:00","text":"我們現行制度是有一個查核規定，但是它有一個漏洞，在於外包人員有沒有落實查核以及定期查核機制，第二個就是現在不適任教育人員資料庫要怎麼樣能夠查得到、查得準、查得即時。","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-24T12:06:36.337000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:07:04.308000+08:00","text":"依據現行不適任教育人員之通報資訊蒐集及查詢處理利用辦法，是有要求學校進用、運用人力的時候，要查詢涉性別事件資料庫、不適任教育人員資料庫，還有短期補習班教保服務等不適任人員資料庫，這些通通都可以透過法務部、警政署、社政來查詢紀錄，但是這個問題就在於這個嫌犯已經有前科，我們卻查不到，還是沒有查？","quality":0.731},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-24T12:07:04.868000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:07:06.369000+08:00","text":"教育部目前的掌握到底是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-24T12:07:11.030000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:07:11.830000+08:00","text":"在學校裡面的這個……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:07:11.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:07:13.929000+08:00","text":"我請業務單位來回答。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-24T12:07:14.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:07:14.670000+08:00","text":"我先回一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-24T12:07:17.092000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:07:24.218000+08:00","text":"委員，這個案子在疫調中，疫調的過程，他被衛福部視為某種情形，所以……沒錯。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-24T12:07:25.319000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:07:55.175000+08:00","text":"衛福部目前還沒辦法給我們名單，但是那天有跟召委報告，我們7天內回復，那個名單沒有給我們，我們還是可以用，譬如學校自行進用為學校人員或委外的，我們各種模擬把他們都列出來之後，照委員的要求，從他的進用、運用，就是剛進來，到定期查詢，或我們外加的不定期查詢，以及查詢平臺有沒有介接好，這三個步驟全面檢視，我們說7天內會回復委員會。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-24T12:07:55.175000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T12:07:57.516000+08:00","text":"7天內會提供，也請提供到我辦公室，好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-24T12:07:57.516000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T12:07:59.857000+08:00","text":"沒問題，好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-24T12:07:59.857000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:08:19.352000+08:00","text":"因為這個就是看我們到底有沒有介接好、我們到底有沒有定期查詢，所以接下來我就要要求教育部，可不可以立刻來清查全國各級學校、補習班、課照中心的學生交通車駕駛人名冊，是否都已經全部完成不適任資料庫、性侵害犯罪紀錄以及相關資料的查核。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:08:20.353000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:08:23.355000+08:00","text":"有、有，這個已經在處理，請業務單位講一下。","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-24T12:08:23.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:08:24.976000+08:00","text":"沒關係，我一次講完，你一次回答好了，好不好？好。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-24T12:08:25.617000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:08:39.186000+08:00","text":"第二個，我們要要求地方政府盤點現在外包校車的契約，明定業者更換駕駛時必須事先報備，要重新查核，不能夠自己私底下講好代班就結束了。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-24T12:08:40.166000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:08:56.470000+08:00","text":"第三個，針對於本案的受害者，要有長期的支持，雖然疾管署已經有說會提供衛教諮詢、篩檢及就醫治療，但是我想學籍、就學、心理輔導在學校端，教育部還是要來協助，好不好？","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:08:56.470000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T12:08:57.470000+08:00","text":"好，我們來……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-24T12:08:57.192000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:08:58.495000+08:00","text":"這三個是不是可以請國教署回答？","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-24T12:08:58.495000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T12:08:59.495000+08:00","text":"委員剛才講的，就包含學校、補習班、課後照顧中心等等，各方面要去做全面了解……對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-24T12:08:59.495000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T12:09:00.495000+08:00","text":"這個我們會跟部裡的終身司一起做處理。","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-24T12:09:00.495000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T12:09:01.495000+08:00","text":"另外，有講到兩點，應該要再繼續補強也好，優化也好，都會納入我們7天內跟委員回復的這個報告中。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-24T12:09:01.495000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T12:09:02.495000+08:00","text":"7天內的報告裡面，對嗎？","quality":0.111},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-24T12:09:00.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:09:00.628000+08:00","text":"對於學生的支持部分呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-24T12:09:21.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:09:32.781000+08:00","text":"對學生的支持在我們原有的輔導系統，只要在我們能處理的，包含名單，我們也知道的話，我們會用原來的輔導專業去保護而且照顧這個孩子在心理上的需求。","quality":0.631},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-24T12:09:33.542000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:09:35.885000+08:00","text":"好，所以名單應該是之後才會拿到，對不對？對、對。","quality":0.526},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2026-06-24T12:09:36.846000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:09:37.267000+08:00","text":"好，了解，謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-24T12:09:37.767000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T12:09:42.052714+08:00","text":"謝謝張雅琳委員的質詢，請次長回座。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-24T12:09:42.352714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T12:09:46.352714+08:00","text":"下一位有請洪孟楷委員進行詢答。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1810,"blocks":[["張委員雅琳：（12時）謝謝主席，有請次長。"],["主席：有請次長。"],["張廖次長萬堅：委員好。"],["張委員雅琳：謝謝次長，我想大家今天其實都非常關注校事會議，這件事情其實從去年討論到現在，我自己大概也整理了一下校事會議被詬病的，像是小案大辦、未達停聘解聘、輔導先行、主張應該要增訂親師生衝突協調前置程序等六項，這些在目前新版的施行辦法中其實都有相對應的措施。","我跟教育部也有索資，這個數量也是有減少，但是我想民間還是有很多疑慮與質疑，所以這個部分是不是可以……不知道教育部有沒有預估什麼時候我們可以再重新評估一次現行的校事會議辦法，然後再做修正？"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們就是7月底前。"],["張委員雅琳：好，那就希望在7月的時候可以把這個……其實有很多團體也主張是不是可以考慮引入第三方機制，這在之前我也都說過很多次了。最主要是我和范雲委員去澳洲的時候也有去詢問他們是如何處理這樣的問題，他們教育部其實也回應，現在即便是在澳洲，親師生之間的一些相關衝突、老師的壓力也都是在增加的。","我在想，其他國家都有面臨到相對的狀況，我這裡就有提供一些其他國家的制度給教育部參考，不應該由學校自行調查，因為這真的會增加大家的不信任感，而且現場的衝突也都是會比較嚴重的，像是校長協會都有提到校園律師，我希望這部分改革的核心制度能讓這個制度更公平，是不是可以請教育部參考我的想法？"],["張廖次長萬堅：是，我們會列入研議，尤其是第三方機制，這點很多委員都有提到，我們會認真評估。"],["張委員雅琳：另外一個部分，針對政院最近提到依托咪酯入校的反毒政策，要增設第五級保全，但是民間也有一些想法。有關第五級保全在認定上，他到底是一個保全還是一個查緝人員？他到底是做校園門禁安全巡查還是協助查緝毒品？如果只是校園保全，那就不能有警察權，不能盤查學生，也不能夠搜索書包，不能要求學生尿檢，也不能調閱或蒐集學生個資，所以我們對這個的定位到底是什麼，可不可以請教育部簡單說明？"],["張廖次長萬堅：第五級保全是因為行政院在召開跨部會反毒會議的時候，在緝毒上提到了校安的問題，所以學校如果有需要的話可以考慮。當然目前學校的校安已經有相當的機制了，包括學安人員、校安人員等等，我們都不斷在補助相關人員的人力，這個剛才很多委員都很關心。","我們跟警察本來就有一個機制在，如果學校發生了重大的刑案，或是基於偵辦的需要，會依照內政部的程序，邀請警察進入學校辦案，而且要有學校主任級以上的人陪同他們才能進入學校，同時對學生還要以最小妨礙的影響為原則，大概會有一套機制。所以第五級保全應該是行政院看到像依托咪酯這種會危害社會、引起心理很大的壓力，認為學校如果有必要的話就可以考量。所以到目前為止，對於現行校安體系的人力，如有不足我們都會補。"],["張委員雅琳：了解，我懂。因為大家其實非常關注校園依托咪酯的問題，我也非常肯定你們拿出有魄力的做法去面對，但是因為現在就像剛剛次長提到的，我們本來就有學務創新人力，我們有校安人力，對於目前的這些配額、缺額及其流動率，還有待遇是否足以留才，我認為這些才是我們應該要積極關注、解決的重點，這些都應該要檢討。"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，這個我們會強化。"],["張委員雅琳：這部分應該有相對應的檢討了，是不是有檢討的報告可以提供到我們辦公室呢？大概多久之內可以提供？"],["張廖次長萬堅：好，我們在一個月內，好不好？"],["張委員雅琳：好，謝謝。我還有一個提醒，毒品查緝當然非常重要，雖然有跟警察配合，但我想這部分還是要照我們既有的流程來走。"],["張廖次長萬堅：是，沒有錯，它有一定的流程。"],["張委員雅琳：避免孩子就直接被帶走，因為警察可能懷疑，有情資說他有問題，於是他就被搜查，結果最後證明沒有問題，這對他的同儕關係、心理狀態、學習都會造成非常大的影響。"],["張廖次長萬堅：沒有錯、沒有錯，對、對。"],["張委員雅琳：再來，還有HIV校車司機的新聞事件，這也是引起了很多社會關注。這個東西，我想上禮拜其他委員也有討論過，我現在只想要凸顯幾個重要問題。","我們現行制度是有一個查核規定，但是它有一個漏洞，在於外包人員有沒有落實查核以及定期查核機制，第二個就是現在不適任教育人員資料庫要怎麼樣能夠查得到、查得準、查得即時。依據現行不適任教育人員之通報資訊蒐集及查詢處理利用辦法，是有要求學校進用、運用人力的時候，要查詢涉性別事件資料庫、不適任教育人員資料庫，還有短期補習班教保服務等不適任人員資料庫，這些通通都可以透過法務部、警政署、社政來查詢紀錄，但是這個問題就在於這個嫌犯已經有前科，我們卻查不到，還是沒有查？教育部目前的掌握到底是什麼？在學校裡面的這個……"],["張廖次長萬堅：我請業務單位來回答。"],["彭署長富源：我先回一下。委員，這個案子在疫調中，疫調的過程，他被衛福部視為某種情形，所以……"],["張委員雅琳：沒錯。"],["彭署長富源：衛福部目前還沒辦法給我們名單，但是那天有跟召委報告，我們7天內回復，那個名單沒有給我們，我們還是可以用，譬如學校自行進用為學校人員或委外的，我們各種模擬把他們都列出來之後，照委員的要求，從他的進用、運用，就是剛進來，到定期查詢，或我們外加的不定期查詢，以及查詢平臺有沒有介接好，這三個步驟全面檢視，我們說7天內會回復委員會。"],["張委員雅琳：7天內會提供，也請提供到我辦公室，好不好？"],["彭署長富源：沒問題，好。"],["張委員雅琳：因為這個就是看我們到底有沒有介接好、我們到底有沒有定期查詢，所以接下來我就要要求教育部，可不可以立刻來清查全國各級學校、補習班、課照中心的學生交通車駕駛人名冊，是否都已經全部完成不適任資料庫、性侵害犯罪紀錄以及相關資料的查核。"],["張廖次長萬堅：有、有，這個已經在處理，請業務單位講一下。"],["張委員雅琳：沒關係，我一次講完，你一次回答好了，好不好？"],["彭署長富源：好。"],["張委員雅琳：第二個，我們要要求地方政府盤點現在外包校車的契約，明定業者更換駕駛時必須事先報備，要重新查核，不能夠自己私底下講好代班就結束了。","第三個，針對於本案的受害者，要有長期的支持，雖然疾管署已經有說會提供衛教諮詢、篩檢及就醫治療，但是我想學籍、就學、心理輔導在學校端，教育部還是要來協助，好不好？"],["張廖次長萬堅：好，我們來……"],["張委員雅琳：這三個是不是可以請國教署回答？"],["彭署長富源：委員剛才講的，就包含學校、補習班、課後照顧中心等等，各方面要去做全面了解……"],["張委員雅琳：對。"],["彭署長富源：這個我們會跟部裡的終身司一起做處理。另外，有講到兩點，應該要再繼續補強也好，優化也好，都會納入我們7天內跟委員回復的這個報告中。"],["張委員雅琳：7天內的報告裡面，對嗎？對於學生的支持部分呢？"],["彭署長富源：對學生的支持在我們原有的輔導系統，只要在我們能處理的，包含名單，我們也知道的話，我們會用原來的輔導專業去保護而且照顧這個孩子在心理上的需求。"],["張委員雅琳：好，所以名單應該是之後才會拿到，對不對？"],["張廖次長萬堅：對、對。"],["張委員雅琳：好，了解，謝謝。"],["張廖次長萬堅：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝張雅琳委員的質詢，請次長回座。","下一位有請洪孟楷委員進行詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":370,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-22-17","speakers":["伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳培瑜","柯志恩","葛如鈞","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","蔡春綢","葉元之","吳思瑤","吳沛憶","范雲","張雅琳","洪孟楷","王安祥","羅廷瑋","羅智強","盧縣一","傅崐萁","徐欣瑩","何欣純","黃捷","林倩綺"],"page_start":195,"meetingDate":["2026-06-24"],"gazette_id":"1155302","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155302_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請教育部政務次長張廖萬堅列席就「校事會議暨教師輔導管教制度與兒少相關權益探討」進行\n專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1155302_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}