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有請次長好 有請次長"},{"start":10.078,"end":34.191,"text":"市長早今天是校事會議雖然我不在高中以下的學校我在大學不過我想在教學現場發生的狀況其實大家都有一個共同的趨勢我先從果看起來所以現在市長應該知道很多人當初我們年輕的時候其實投入老師這個行業職業別基本上是因為有一些理想性不是賺錢"},{"start":36.132,"end":59.963,"text":"那現在這個很多的地方那個中小學大概在在這個招聘的時候其實都有非常多的缺額我想次長這個應該知道那有一個現象我想這個要提出來跟次長就教就是那個代理老師的部分我們過去有一個那個那個criteria大概是8%左右就是代理老師的那個比例對啊不是覺得很多我想"},{"start":60.743,"end":78.328,"text":"都超過8%了對不對對 少子化的關係減班嚴重所以很多學校會留空比較多的比例尤其是比較交通位置比較沒有那麼好的學校對 它的流動率會更高那這我覺得某些程度也是因為大家不願意投入到教師這個職業來嗎"},{"start":80.529,"end":106.759,"text":"其實代理教師他現在的那個聘期他的那個薪資待遇其實跟正式老師都一樣那沒有聘沒有聘主的多數的原因應該是因為少子化的衝擊非常嚴重所以我再回到今天的主題來就是校師會議我想這個最近討論非常多昨天這個教師團體他們昨天也開了記者會我想自然看到了那基本上我想教育部這邊一直說今年已經做了一些修正"},{"start":107.759,"end":129.17,"text":"那看起來今天那個報告裡面也有就是那個投訴案件從448變成200多件因為我們的學者就喜歡問問題就是市長覺得這個減少最重要的原因是什麼是因為匿名減少了我們把匿名踢掉了還是說大家關注這個議題了還是說我們這個分流產生很好的作用這樣"},{"start":129.85,"end":152.404,"text":"我想有幾個方面一個就是說剛才葉委員提到說分委的關係比如說因為老師開始像葉委員認為說是老師開始防疫性教學所以大家就比較不會去踩到那個線第二個當然是匿名匿名投訴是很重要的一部分匿名投訴我們不受理了所以有一些可能他是要惡譽或是要惡整"},{"start":152.924,"end":171.262,"text":"老師的這種有私人恩怨他可能就在這個氛圍下他也就不去檢舉這也是一種可能第三種可能就是說我們確實在投訴上面我們做了一個分流分流其實也產生了一些效果不敢說全部有一些效果所以市長我的意思就是說剛剛好多個原因我想請問布裡面"},{"start":172.884,"end":188.019,"text":"發揮這個做學問的精神嘛我們大家看到底是發生什麼事情到底什麼樣的原因造成什麼樣的結果因為我們現在要改善嘛因為大家都知道這個狀況蠻嚴重的那另外因為這次要分流啦那剛剛很多委員也提到就是校長要召開一個這個所謂認定的會議啊一個小組啦"},{"start":188.98,"end":212.92,"text":"因為我覺得過去我們在認定上如果第一階段是受理跟不受理就是是不是要駁掉就是不受理我覺得這個是簡單的可是這個要分流的話市長覺得這個事情分流主要是回應說有些案例舉出來很小的案例結果有進去校事會議結果有外聘的人來然後小案大辦然後折磨老師的那種士氣折磨老師的那種"},{"start":213.661,"end":227.271,"text":"教學的熱忱所以我們覺得說確實從數據從過去一年多實施的那個數據來看最後停止或者解聘的案件只有26件可是進入了894件事實上我們都知道這個狀況所以我們現在尋求一個好的方法好的機制"},{"start":230.914,"end":259.66,"text":"小案他可以調和維繫學生的權益也保障這個老師的工作權嘛這兩個我們希望都能夠保障到那基本上就是說我希望我們去還是要去看一下到底什麼樣的機制對於因為現在一直在講分流嘛我覺得實務上這個我們現在有很多嘛比如說霸凌剛剛也跟委員講那其實有些那個狀況在沒有調查之前其實很多狀況是非常不明確的在前端要做好分流我覺得很多時候是這麼容易的這個部分確實是這樣"},{"start":260.72,"end":288.625,"text":"所以希望教育部有這個新的法我們現在馬上還要檢討我們是盡量把它明確化就是我們還有到底是要正面還是負面的來表列或是過去剛剛次長也講到很多其他的案例我們有民立主權違法的部分現在都有任命上的一個差異所以這個提供給部裡面做一個參考謝謝次長好 謝謝謝謝委員謝謝王安詳委員請次長回座下一位有請羅廷"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-06-24T12:20:32.267000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:20:33.835000+08:00","text":"主席好，有請次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-24T12:20:34.298000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:20:34.459000+08:00","text":"有請次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:20:34.459000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T12:20:39.299000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-06-24T12:20:39.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:20:39.299000+08:00","text":"次長早。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-06-24T12:20:40.259000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:20:50.925000+08:00","text":"今天的議題是有關校事會議，雖然我不在高中以下的學校，我是在大學，不過我想在教學現場發生的狀況其實大家都有共同的一個趨勢。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-06-24T12:20:50.925000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:21:13.056000+08:00","text":"我先從果來看，次長應該知道，當初我們年輕的時候，其實很多人投入老師這個行業、職業別是因為有一些理想性，不是為了賺錢，但現在很多地方的中小學在招聘的時候都有非常多的缺額，我想次長應該知道。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-06-24T12:21:13.916000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:21:24.541000+08:00","text":"有一個現象我想要提出來跟次長就教，就是代理老師的部分，我們過去有一個criteria，大概是8%左右。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:21:25.281000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:21:27.062000+08:00","text":"對，就是代理老師的比例。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-06-24T12:21:28.362000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:21:30.283000+08:00","text":"我想最近很多都超過8%了。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:21:30.643000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:21:42.987000+08:00","text":"對，因為少子化的關係，減班嚴重，所以很多學校會留控比較多的比例，尤其是交通位置比較沒有那麼好的，它的流動率會更高。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-06-24T12:21:43.807000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:21:47.328000+08:00","text":"我覺得某些程度也是因為大家不願意投入到教師這個職業來。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:21:49.529000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:22:00.993000+08:00","text":"其實代理教師現在的聘期、薪資待遇跟正式老師都一樣，多數沒有聘足的原因應該是因為少子化的衝擊非常嚴重。","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-06-24T12:22:02.114000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:22:11.157000+08:00","text":"我再回到今天的主題校事會議，我想這個最近討論非常多，昨天教師團體也開了記者會，我想次長也有看到。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-06-24T12:22:13.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:22:23.482000+08:00","text":"教育部一直說今年已經做了一些修正，今天的報告裡面也有，就是投訴案件從448件變成兩百多件……202件。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-06-24T12:22:24.403000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:22:30.986000+08:00","text":"因為我們學者就喜歡問問題，次長覺得這個數量減少最重要的原因是什麼？","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-06-24T12:22:30.986000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:22:38.150000+08:00","text":"是因為匿名減少，你們把匿名踢掉了，還是說大家關注這個議題，還是說你們分流真的產生很好的作用？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:22:38.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:22:52.738000+08:00","text":"我想有幾個方面，也有剛才委員提到因為氛圍的關係，譬如說，像葉元之委員認為是老師開始採取防禦性教學，所以大家就比較不會去踩到那個線。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:22:52.738000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:23:07.109000+08:00","text":"第二個，匿名投訴是很重要的一部分，我們不受理匿名投訴了，所以有一些可能他是有惡意或者要惡整老師的這種有私人恩怨的，他可能在這個氛圍下就不去檢舉了，這也是一種可能。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:23:07.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:23:16.658000+08:00","text":"第三種可能就是我們確實在投訴上面做了一個分流，分流其實也產生了一些效果，不敢說全部，但有一些效果。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-06-24T12:23:16.859000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:23:30.332000+08:00","text":"所以次長，我的意思就是說，剛剛有好多個原因，我希望今天部裡發揮做學問的精神，看看到底是發生什麼事情，到底是什麼樣的原因造成什麼樣的結果，因為我們現在要改善，大家都知道這個狀況蠻嚴重的。","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-06-24T12:23:31.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:23:48.789000+08:00","text":"另外，因為這次要分流，剛剛很多委員也提到，校長要召開一個所謂認定的會議、一個小組，因為我覺得過去我們在認定上，如果第一階段是受理跟不受理，就是是不是要駁掉、不受理，我覺得這個是簡單的，可是如果要分流的話，次長，你覺得這個事情……","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:23:49.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:24:13.789000+08:00","text":"分流主要是回應有些很小的案例提出來，結果進去校事會議，有外聘的人來，然後小案大辦，折磨老師的士氣、折磨老師的教學熱忱，所以我們覺得確實從過去一年多實施的那個數據來看，最後停職或者解聘的案件只有26件，可是進入的有894件……","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-06-24T12:24:14.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:24:16.251000+08:00","text":"次長，我們都知道這個狀況，所以我們現在要尋求一個好的方法，好的機制。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:24:19.914000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:24:21.054000+08:00","text":"希望小案可以調和……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-06-24T12:24:21.634000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:24:26.695000+08:00","text":"維繫學生的權益，也保障老師的工作權，這兩個我們希望都要能夠保障到。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-06-24T12:24:27.195000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:24:48.240000+08:00","text":"基本上，我希望我們還是要去看一下，到底什麼樣的機制對於……因為現在一直在講分流，我覺得實務上現在有很多，比如霸凌，剛才有很多委員講的，在沒有調查之前，其實很多狀況是非常不明確的，在前端要做好分流我覺得很多時候是很不容易的。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:24:48.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:24:48.660000+08:00","text":"是，這部分確實是這樣。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-06-24T12:24:49.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:24:53.564000+08:00","text":"所以希望教育部有新的法規，現在馬上還要檢討。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:24:53.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:24:54.985000+08:00","text":"我們是儘量把它明確化。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-06-24T12:24:56.987000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:25:02.972000+08:00","text":"我們到底是要正面還是負面來表列，或是剛才次長也講到很多其他的案例。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-06-24T12:25:03.473000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:25:11.200000+08:00","text":"我們也明定阻卻違法的部分，現在都有認定上的差異，所以這個提供給部裡面做一個參考，謝謝次長。","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:25:11.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:25:13.502000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-24T12:25:13.502000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:25:15.724000+08:00","text":"謝謝王安祥委員，請次長回座。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-24T12:25:16.644000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:25:17.605000+08:00","text":"下一位請羅廷瑋召委。","quality":0.667}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1912,"blocks":[["王委員安祥：（12時20分）主席好，有請次長。"],["主席：有請次長。"],["張廖次長萬堅：委員好。"],["王委員安祥：次長早。今天的議題是有關校事會議，雖然我不在高中以下的學校，我是在大學，不過我想在教學現場發生的狀況其實大家都有共同的一個趨勢。我先從果來看，次長應該知道，當初我們年輕的時候，其實很多人投入老師這個行業、職業別是因為有一些理想性，不是為了賺錢，但現在很多地方的中小學在招聘的時候都有非常多的缺額，我想次長應該知道。有一個現象我想要提出來跟次長就教，就是代理老師的部分，我們過去有一個criteria，大概是8%左右。"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，就是代理老師的比例。"],["王委員安祥：我想最近很多都超過8%了。"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，因為少子化的關係，減班嚴重，所以很多學校會留控比較多的比例，尤其是交通位置比較沒有那麼好的，它的流動率會更高。"],["王委員安祥：我覺得某些程度也是因為大家不願意投入到教師這個職業來。"],["張廖次長萬堅：其實代理教師現在的聘期、薪資待遇跟正式老師都一樣，多數沒有聘足的原因應該是因為少子化的衝擊非常嚴重。"],["王委員安祥：我再回到今天的主題校事會議，我想這個最近討論非常多，昨天教師團體也開了記者會，我想次長也有看到。教育部一直說今年已經做了一些修正，今天的報告裡面也有，就是投訴案件從448件變成兩百多件……"],["張廖次長萬堅：202件。"],["王委員安祥：因為我們學者就喜歡問問題，次長覺得這個數量減少最重要的原因是什麼？是因為匿名減少，你們把匿名踢掉了，還是說大家關注這個議題，還是說你們分流真的產生很好的作用？"],["張廖次長萬堅：我想有幾個方面，也有剛才委員提到因為氛圍的關係，譬如說，像葉元之委員認為是老師開始採取防禦性教學，所以大家就比較不會去踩到那個線。第二個，匿名投訴是很重要的一部分，我們不受理匿名投訴了，所以有一些可能他是有惡意或者要惡整老師的這種有私人恩怨的，他可能在這個氛圍下就不去檢舉了，這也是一種可能。第三種可能就是我們確實在投訴上面做了一個分流，分流其實也產生了一些效果，不敢說全部，但有一些效果。"],["王委員安祥：所以次長，我的意思就是說，剛剛有好多個原因，我希望今天部裡發揮做學問的精神，看看到底是發生什麼事情，到底是什麼樣的原因造成什麼樣的結果，因為我們現在要改善，大家都知道這個狀況蠻嚴重的。另外，因為這次要分流，剛剛很多委員也提到，校長要召開一個所謂認定的會議、一個小組，因為我覺得過去我們在認定上，如果第一階段是受理跟不受理，就是是不是要駁掉、不受理，我覺得這個是簡單的，可是如果要分流的話，次長，你覺得這個事情……"],["張廖次長萬堅：分流主要是回應有些很小的案例提出來，結果進去校事會議，有外聘的人來，然後小案大辦，折磨老師的士氣、折磨老師的教學熱忱，所以我們覺得確實從過去一年多實施的那個數據來看，最後停職或者解聘的案件只有26件，可是進入的有894件……"],["王委員安祥：次長，我們都知道這個狀況，所以我們現在要尋求一個好的方法，好的機制。"],["張廖次長萬堅：希望小案可以調和……"],["王委員安祥：維繫學生的權益，也保障老師的工作權，這兩個我們希望都要能夠保障到。基本上，我希望我們還是要去看一下，到底什麼樣的機制對於……因為現在一直在講分流，我覺得實務上現在有很多，比如霸凌，剛才有很多委員講的，在沒有調查之前，其實很多狀況是非常不明確的，在前端要做好分流我覺得很多時候是很不容易的。"],["張廖次長萬堅：是，這部分確實是這樣。"],["王委員安祥：所以希望教育部有新的法規，現在馬上還要檢討。"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們是儘量把它明確化。"],["王委員安祥：我們到底是要正面還是負面來表列，或是剛才次長也講到很多其他的案例。我們也明定阻卻違法的部分，現在都有認定上的差異，所以這個提供給部裡面做一個參考，謝謝次長。"],["張廖次長萬堅：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝王安祥委員，請次長回座。","下一位請羅廷瑋召委。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":370,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-22-17","speakers":["伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳培瑜","柯志恩","葛如鈞","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","蔡春綢","葉元之","吳思瑤","吳沛憶","范雲","張雅琳","洪孟楷","王安祥","羅廷瑋","羅智強","盧縣一","傅崐萁","徐欣瑩","何欣純","黃捷","林倩綺"],"page_start":195,"meetingDate":["2026-06-24"],"gazette_id":"1155302","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155302_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請教育部政務次長張廖萬堅列席就「校事會議暨教師輔導管教制度與兒少相關權益探討」進行\n專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1155302_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}