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我們那天去看了一個小學五年級的小學生小朋友戴眼鏡看起來比較少一點國外真的反而比較少那眼睛是靈魂之窗根據國建署最新的統計台灣國小一年級的學童近視率高達兩成"},{"start":54.955,"end":76.47,"text":"現在到了小六更是逼近七成這不只是一個數字的問題這是嚴重的我們公共衛生國安危機耶眼科醫學會對學童視力不良率的關心希望可以整合整個視力的數據建立資料庫現階段我們看到新聞這邊都有寫已經上報了"},{"start":77.762,"end":102.621,"text":"我想國健署這邊也不斷的在講我們現在對於現在的孩童勢力的關心整合大數據希望能夠提前掌握整個孩子的勢力變化的一個趨勢在現階段孩子變成高度近視喔或者是眼睛病變之前制定更精準的一個近視防治的一個政策"},{"start":103.402,"end":126.542,"text":"建立完整的一個追蹤機制可是現在的問題喔國健署在講整個問題卡在教育部沒有辦法上傳資料提供數據因為資料看不到沒有辦法去追蹤高風險的近視兒童所以近視防治的這一塊就缺了一角所以次長"},{"start":127.697,"end":150.632,"text":"眼科醫學會跟衛福部現在倡議的是希望建立一套校園篩檢出來一個完整的勢力追蹤機制可是次長教育部願不願意再承諾一個月跨部會來召開這樣子的一個會議來想辦法提供這個資料讓這個追蹤機制能夠完整"},{"start":151.512,"end":166.982,"text":"我想我們會跟各縣市談啦就是可能機關署那邊或者各縣市那邊或者委員手上的資料的那個眼科協會我們來跟他們了解一下那個整個狀況他們需要的現在報導指出國建署副署長"},{"start":168.443,"end":195.346,"text":"為副署長就講說教育部沒有提供這一個資料可能有一些個資的問題對所以可是目前來說我們大家一直說個資個資如果你去問家長家長一定百分百同意啊因為在部會之間能夠相互去利用這樣子的一個資訊來整合追蹤機制讓我們的勢力有辦法在病變之前或者是高度近視之前來產生因應的政策嘛"},{"start":195.686,"end":218.251,"text":"所以我希望的是說我們的教育部不要行政怠惰甚至是用這樣子的一個法規沒有是法規沒有給你授權嗎那是不是你應該提出一些意見讓委員們來幫忙呢所以我希望說提出問題了我們找出共同的解決辦法希望你能夠承諾一個月內是不是能夠提出解決辦法"},{"start":220.183,"end":233.912,"text":"委員講的這個時間點我們來依據這個時間來處理可以嗎有一個意見給委員也分享一下第一點剛好昨天我們去查也是跟國建署一起辦111學年到113學年我們去查學生"},{"start":237.975,"end":264.968,"text":"近視的情況的現況那我們發現經過跟國健署的努力在國中跟國小分別減低的情形國小減低了大概0.49國中大概減低了1.22大概跟國健署一直在努力現在繼續努力就剛剛講的一些特殊情形能不能夠就我們在各自相關甚至疾管署的一些疫調或是有關的這種"},{"start":266.81,"end":293.211,"text":"專業上給我們一點支持因為剛剛講的不是大數據不是去識別化剛剛委員我比較注意聽您講的是特別的我講的是對您講的是特別的所以這個容我們跟各地方政府的專業夥伴還有疾管署以及衛福部我們來查但我要特別說明謝謝委員關心我們跟國健署就一直合作已經20年來一直就學生視力體味蛀牙等等或是煙冰我知道你們一定很關注啦"},{"start":294.192,"end":319.931,"text":"但現在既然已經上報了他也有提到希望你們能夠提供數據我們看怎麼樣去整合一個月內之內解決辦法出來就那個特殊個案上怎麼樣來突破我們來處理就大數據的去識別化應該還好處理就特殊個案特殊的我要的是特殊的所以這個要怎麼處理跟大數據不太一樣因為那去識別化所以我一講就清楚的話是不是容我們把那個比較困難的你們再討論看看"},{"start":321.212,"end":345.753,"text":"但後續我也會再召集教育部衛福部還有眼科醫學會我們大家共同來討論這一題啦我想大家都希望能夠關注這個校園近視的一個問題那第二個我要再跟你們請教的時候今天校事會議這一件事情我也要講一下的確我也接到大概有兩三個家長會跟我說要聘請委員的部分費用"},{"start":346.997,"end":359.445,"text":"學校都說沒有都說要希望家長會能夠幫忙出一些費用幫忙募款這是事實喔這是事實你們一定要注意喔所以七月你的新辦法出來的時候就經費來這個區塊是不是也應該要檢討"},{"start":362.452,"end":382.512,"text":"好我們會一併來檢討好第二個我要再跟你們探討的是我們現在呢上週一我們召開了校事會議的公聽會我想在座兩位也都在現場聽了很久針對昨天九大教師公會全教總等教團呼籲廢除校事會議市長有要先回應嗎"},{"start":383.703,"end":411.032,"text":"我想這個消失會議有佔那個他們的提出廢除但也有家長團體反對還有一些公協會反對所以我想這個不是我在這邊說我支持不支持的問題這個消失會議是一個制度制度當然沒有辦法做到百分之百那我們一直在優化那是當年教師法修法的授權2019年修法的授權我大概知道了沒關係那教育部目前強調新制實施後"},{"start":411.952,"end":428.574,"text":"投訴的案件跟解聘考核兩個辦法在校正前都有同期的減少這是你們一直以來在說的那我想這樣子的一個不受理案件比率增加以後但是次長案件數下降是否就代表教師的恐懼下降"},{"start":429.555,"end":457.485,"text":"這個我們要來探討一下再來案件數下降是否就代表整個校園的信任恢復這個我們也應該要了解一下所以我認為案件數下降是否就代表制度變得更公平有待查證許多教師在第一線的感受他還是覺得恰恰相反一份調查報告可能就影響整個教師考核懲處停聘解聘甚至不續聘事實上這就足以決定一個教師"},{"start":458.425,"end":471.24,"text":"他的職涯生死所以今天我想要就幾個問題來跟你探討市長校事會議呢在走這個程序啊保障不足您有發現嗎"},{"start":472.731,"end":493.472,"text":"您委員講的保障不足是什麼我們想真正決定案件走向的往往不是法院而是前端的調查在第一線第一次訪談的時候怎麼回答哪些證據被提出哪些事實被記錄往往就決定了調查後續的方向"},{"start":494.656,"end":510.325,"text":"所以請問市長當校師會議已經足以影響這個職牙教師的職牙的生死權跟他的名譽權的時候為何教師在調查程序中沒有法律輔助的制度"},{"start":512.796,"end":530.917,"text":"沒有法律輔助我們其實現在也在研議為何不能夠提供法律諮詢啊或者是程序協助啊專業的陪同律師專業的單位陪同他們一起來做這樣子的一個調查我認為程序保障我們現在有一個輔助人機制嘛就是說已經修了之後他可以有輔助人"},{"start":531.417,"end":547.49,"text":"副主任就包括律師也好或者是他的教授這個是在你後續要伸出來的信息是1月12之後的嘛 對不對我要講的是之前我們在遇到這樣的情況我要強調是把它放大所以我們希望說程序的保障不是包庇"},{"start":548.191,"end":574.186,"text":"不適任的老師而是確保調查的品質跟事實的發現嘛是所以在你們後續的修正的時候我認為七月還有一個修正的一個機會輔佐人的機制他在過程當中是不是還有在這幾個月的大數據你們都會有稍微瞭解像輔佐人機制怎麼樣落實啦然後第二個就是說那老師如果遇到這樣的問題的時候他有沒有一些法律諮詢的一個比較專業的一個機構"},{"start":576.527,"end":593.853,"text":"我希望他們在陪同我們這個都會想辦法來設計這個制度來跟地方讓制度更加完善是我們會來想辦法好所以我想我還是那句話上次部長在這邊我問他他沒有得出一個答案現在看起來調和機制"},{"start":595.954,"end":612.783,"text":"是會有的對不對就是其實我們在1月12號上路之後要進入校師會議之前我們就設計那個希望它就是一個調和機制就從人才庫裡面找到教師有教師背景的代表家長背景的代表第三方公正人士然後由校長來招集1月以後會更明確吧"},{"start":613.263,"end":629.089,"text":"那我們今天又委員提到說除了校內的調和機制那校外的第三方公正機制上次我有建議嘛像我們法治單位他們都有所謂的調解嘛但是他們希望是有教保人員的資格啊或者是教師資格來擔任調和嘛對這個建議我們可以來考慮大家研議啦"},{"start":634.692,"end":646.741,"text":"所以我在想說如果我們在審理這一次的教師解聘考核辦法隨時有機會我們先退回然後再由你們再重新擬定新的方案再送進來是吧"},{"start":647.765,"end":670.846,"text":"校屬會已經實行 怎麼退回我們現在目前大院有交辦委員會要審查我要依法制 你們依法制決定啦我們準備尊重大院的決定對 基本上已經到委員會的這個責任了嘛不過我擔任召委 我如果排行的話我們是希望說有這個機會 那退回到時候你們再有新的辦法的時候 契約再送進來這也是不無可能啦"},{"start":671.286,"end":684.887,"text":"所以我想這個部分也是希望說大家要重視能夠將校士會議相關的一些辦法能夠研擬的更加完善最後我要再講的是電子菸現在非常難抓報紙上都在講發不到事件"},{"start":686.004,"end":702.13,"text":"那校園呢校園這邊也是上報啊電子菸入侵國中小異常膩難辨別它的氣味所以我們現在在所謂的第五級保全啊我們看到是為了校園反毒啊"},{"start":702.87,"end":725.776,"text":"那我想問現在國教署來統計涉嫌攜帶使用電子煙校園通報的案件3年飆升7倍2025年累積了1692件估計逾4萬多名的國中生國高中生吸食電子煙市長這個數據是有查到但是有沒有查到黑數數據的部分我們是請業務單位來說明一下"},{"start":731.286,"end":749.241,"text":"委員剛剛講的有沒有黑數這個其實在原來沒有這個法規的時候114年之前沒有那後來有之後114年1月114年11月分別調查之後就變成比較高而且也比較多出來被通報了"},{"start":750.281,"end":772.567,"text":"黑書就被揭發了嗎對 以前是不用通報啦後來114年是要通報的但是我要再講就是說電子菸沒有菸味如果學生要在學校抽菸是比較不容易被發現所以教師在第一線的辨識度這大大的提升那之前依託名職等菸油分開存放讓老師根本找不到正在吸毒的證據"},{"start":773.747,"end":802.286,"text":"導致校方除了沒收他的電子菸的載具之外基本上拿學生沒轍所以我們要怎麼樣讓第一線的老師有這個辨識的機會上次也有在提到說可能還要在驗讀啊這個部分的我想校園反讀的策略都是宣傳抓到就是春暉輔導面對施用型態的改變現行策略是否過於被動我們做法是不是應該調整市長"},{"start":804.324,"end":826.702,"text":"我們校園的販毒是非常積極沒有被動包括我們的校安人員我們的所有的人力我想在除了跟校外的巡捕會也好或者是跟警察也好我們有大概也9192處的高風險的場域我們都有定期在巡查而且是跟警政大會合作"},{"start":827.102,"end":840.997,"text":"我知道你們都有積極在等所以你才會看到那個數據可是現在這個反讀我認為還是不堪一擊因為面對新形態不斷的在侵擾讓整個校園安全變得更不安全不是你們沒作為更複雜更複雜所以這個複雜的情境讓我們的這個"},{"start":844.941,"end":872.763,"text":"反毒策略有待再精進沒有錯我想這個春威福島的部分新少年吸毒再犯是高達35%所以春威福島有待加強我們到地方去其實那個校安人員包括學校的教官他們是我問他們有沒有確實入班他們是班班入班宣導而且5分鐘10分鐘甚至不斷的在講那我也去調了我們3700多所學校每一所學校設飯道有關那個尿液檢篩出來有這個"},{"start":874.764,"end":903.716,"text":"毒品反應的其實它的分布是比較典狀式的不是像我們在那個韓國的戲劇就看到說整個學校 當然不可能一整個學校所以說不是這樣子的情況啦所以我們當然也跟警政單位合作最重要的是這些孩子他在哪邊拿到這些毒品或者說這個煙 那種毒煙那我們是透過警政系統在校外裡面在高風險的場域裡面去溯源去抓欸這個我還是真的要特別拜託因為我要提的是第二個再犯率啦"},{"start":904.136,"end":930.904,"text":"災犯率高達35%的時候春暉福島能不能有效的這個我們會來檢討我認為要有檢討啦他的改革時程跟重點相關的反毒策略我覺得這個是調整一下機制可不可以兩個月內給我資料你們要怎麼樣調整我一直在跟你們講說你們的反毒策略有問題我已經講好幾次了那我想不是你們不好是西域要精進因為新型態真的是如果委員有更好意見我們都會採納啦我們都會"},{"start":932.805,"end":949.415,"text":"那第五級保全現在行政院提出來的這個行政院啊紀連城政委拋出來的第五級保全有沒有跟教育部討論過他是好意建議在跨部會的那個會議裡面說如果學校裡面教育人力是不是夠不夠我們是說不夠嘛那有沒有跟你討論過嘛"},{"start":950.592,"end":967.434,"text":"他當然是在跨部會裡面有在當下跟你討論就只有那些會議教育部目前贊成嗎那我們跟他講我們現有的這個校安人力其實是已經有我是認為第五級保全跟現行校安有什麼不同可不可以說清楚講明白第五級保全我們要講一下"},{"start":968.001,"end":990.011,"text":"跟委員報告第五級保全的一個部分其實就是以政委的概念其實是跟校安是一樣的那他是擔心說擔心有些學校的一個人力不足然後可以嚴疫納入第五級保全這樣的一個情況所以我們在講說為什麼校安有新制天花板的限制第五級保全沒有因為他們可以反而他們可以領到五萬"},{"start":990.791,"end":1007.974,"text":"我想就跟我跟葉元之提的那個版本一樣他的背景特殊嘛那是你們說的嘛OK沒關係我們可以尊重但為什麼我跟葉元之提的版本的時候被說是雙薪肥貓結果你們政委提出來的就變得好棒棒"},{"start":1008.675,"end":1023.196,"text":"我覺得這大家都是為了第一線的校安在努力沒有說誰的方法一定是對的但是提出來大家探討來提升校安這個是普遍民眾都能夠接受的所以我想成立第五級保全"},{"start":1024.198,"end":1043.74,"text":"會與警方等單位策略來做一個聯防學校需與警方來簽訂資源的協定那警方在有情資的時候可以進入校園來查緝或協助我想請問次長現行就有警察入校園的規範那現在行政院又在談警察入校園請問區別在哪裡"},{"start":1044.861,"end":1059.742,"text":"沒有就是說如果你有涉及到刑案的偵辦譬如說你學校他去請求協助有時候學校沒有這個偵辦人力那警方他也是要依相關的法令所以我們本來就有警察入校園的這個部分的規範"},{"start":1061.164,"end":1076.677,"text":"對 我不懂這個時候這個行政院這邊又提出要跟警察有警察的一個情資聯繫啊查器協助啊他是說希望我們加強啦加強 那當然我們就是好啊 那加強可以啊你有辦法再生出更加強版的我們都樂觀其成嘛"},{"start":1077.717,"end":1101.243,"text":"希望能夠更加完善啦但是我希望說不要同一件事情明明校園已經有了結果又拿出來再談一次要就具體的要怎麼樣能夠聯防讓整個校園的資訊能夠跟警察連線之後能夠提升校園安全又不會喪失該有的權益學生的權益老師的權益這個部分要再加強好嗎好謝謝"},{"start":1104.153,"end":1106.963,"text":"谢谢罗廷伟 赵伟 请次长回座"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:25:27.817000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:25:30.638000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，請邀請次長。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-24T12:25:31.038000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:25:31.518000+08:00","text":"有請次長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:25:31.518000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T12:25:35.679000+08:00","text":"召委好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:25:35.679000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:25:45.441000+08:00","text":"次長，在談論今天的專題前，我有幾個問題想跟你就教一下，你有沒有發現臺灣的小朋友都戴眼鏡居多？對。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:25:45.441000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:25:45.681000+08:00","text":"有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:25:47.842000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:25:53.983000+08:00","text":"國教署署長，我們上次去日本的時候，你有沒有印象，好像日本的小朋友戴眼鏡的比較少？","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:25:53.983000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T12:25:56.025000+08:00","text":"回想一下。","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-24T12:25:56.025000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:25:59.746000+08:00","text":"對，我們那天去看了一個小學，五年級的小學生……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:26:00.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:26:01.547000+08:00","text":"小朋友戴眼鏡……","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-24T12:26:01.547000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:26:03.547000+08:00","text":"對，看起來比較少一點。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:26:03.547000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:26:25.041000+08:00","text":"國外真的反而比較少，眼睛是靈魂之窗，根據國健署最新統計，臺灣國小一年級學童的近視率高達兩成，到了小六更逼近七成，這不只是數字的問題，這是嚴重公共衛生的國安危機！","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:26:26.022000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:27:27.501000+08:00","text":"眼科醫學會對學童視力不良率的關心，希望可以整合整個視力的數據，建立資料庫，我們看到新聞都有報導，已經都上報了，國健署這邊也不斷強調對於孩童視力的關心，希望在現階段整合大數據，提前掌握孩子視力變化的趨勢，在孩子變成高度近視或者眼睛病變之前，制定更精準的近視防治政策，建立完整追蹤機制，可是現在的問題是，這是國健署講的，整個問題卡在教育部沒有辦法上傳資料、提供數據，因為看不到資料，沒有辦法追蹤高風險的近視兒童，所以近視防治的這一塊就缺了一角。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:27:28.522000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:27:52.612000+08:00","text":"次長，現在眼科醫學會跟衛福部倡議的是希望建立一套由校園篩檢出來的完整視力追蹤機制，所以次長，教育部願不願意承諾一個月內召開跨部會會議，想辦法提供資料，讓這個追蹤機制能夠完整？","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:27:53.512000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:28:06.080000+08:00","text":"我們會跟各縣市談，就是針對疾管署、各縣市，或者委員手上資料的眼科學會，我們會來跟他們了解整個狀況，以及他們需要的資料。","quality":0.811},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:28:07.881000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:28:14.466000+08:00","text":"根據報導指出，國健署魏副署長表示教育部沒有提供這個資料啊！","quality":0.741},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:28:14.666000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:28:18.790000+08:00","text":"可能有一些個資的問題，我們……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:28:18.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:28:48.828000+08:00","text":"大家一直說個資、個資的問題，可是如果你去問家長，家長一定百分之百同意，因為部會之間可以相互利用這樣的資訊來整合追蹤機制，讓政府有辦法在孩童視力病變之前或高度近視之前，產生因應政策，所以我希望教育部不要行政怠惰，甚至是用沒有這樣的法規……是法規沒有授權給你嗎？","quality":0.847},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:28:48.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:28:51.909000+08:00","text":"如果是這樣，你們是不是應該提出一些意見，讓委員們來幫忙呢？對。","quality":0.704},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:28:52.909000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:29:00.231000+08:00","text":"現在我們把問題提出來了，希望能夠找出共同的解決辦法，你能夠承諾一個月內提出解決辦法嗎？","quality":0.675},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-24T12:29:02.183000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:29:04.544000+08:00","text":"委員講的這個時間點，我們會依據這個時間來處理……","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:29:04.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:29:05.965000+08:00","text":"可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:29:05.965000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T12:29:06.965000+08:00","text":"一個月？","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-24T12:29:05.965000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:29:37.684000+08:00","text":"有一個意見也給委員分享一下，我們跟國健署合作，剛好在昨天去查了111學年到113學年學生近視的現況，我們發現經過跟國健署的努力，國中跟國小部分分別有減低的情形，國小減低了大概0.49%，國中減低了1.22%，所以我們跟國健署一直都有在努力，現在繼續努力。","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-24T12:29:38.824000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:29:57.016000+08:00","text":"至於剛剛講的一些特殊情形，能不能在個資相關，甚至疾管署的一些疫調或相關專業上，給我們一點支持，因為剛剛講的不是大數據、不是去識別化，委員剛剛講的我有比較注意聽，你講的是特別的……","quality":0.863},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:29:57.036000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:29:57.837000+08:00","text":"我講的是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-24T12:29:58.077000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:30:14.010000+08:00","text":"對，你講的是特別的，所以容我們跟各地方政府的專業夥伴，還有疾管署、衛福部來查，但我要特別說明，謝謝委員關心，其實我們跟國健署一直有在合作，二十年來，一直就學生視力、體位、蛀牙等或是菸檳……","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:30:14.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:30:15.051000+08:00","text":"我知道，你們很關注。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-24T12:30:15.051000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T12:30:16.192000+08:00","text":"都一起努力，繼續努力。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:30:16.192000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:30:23.057000+08:00","text":"但現在既然已經上報了，他們也有提到希望你們可以提供數據，你們看要怎麼整合，一個月內……","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-24T12:30:23.057000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T12:30:24.057000+08:00","text":"沒問題……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:30:23.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:30:24.618000+08:00","text":"解決辦法出來……","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-24T12:30:24.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:30:32.704000+08:00","text":"就那個特殊個案上要怎麼突破，我們來處理，大數據的去識別化應該還好處理，就特殊個案……","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:30:32.844000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:30:34.326000+08:00","text":"特殊的，我要的是特殊的。對啊！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-24T12:30:34.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:30:35.306000+08:00","text":"所以這個要怎麼處理，真的……","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:30:35.406000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:30:37.388000+08:00","text":"跟大數據不太一樣，因為那個去識別化，沒辦法追蹤孩子的進度嘛！對啊！","quality":0.517},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-24T12:30:37.588000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:30:41.531000+08:00","text":"所以委員一講就清楚，是不是容我們把比較困難的部分……","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:30:41.551000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:30:52.400000+08:00","text":"你們再討論看看，後續我也會再召集教育部、衛福部，還有眼科醫學會，大家共同來討論這一題，我想大家都希望能夠關注校園近視的問題。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:30:52.400000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T12:30:53.761000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員關心。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:30:53.761000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:31:21.445000+08:00","text":"第二個問題，有關校事會議這個事情，我也要請教教育部，的確，我也接過兩、三個家長會跟我陳情，聘請委員的部分，學校都說沒有費用，希望家長會能夠幫忙出費用、幫忙募款，這是事實，這點你們一定要注意，所以7月你們的新辦法出來，就經費這個區塊，是不是也應該檢討？","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:31:24.452000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:31:26.214000+08:00","text":"好，我們會一併來檢討。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:31:27.055000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:31:44.512000+08:00","text":"再來，我要跟你探討的是，上週一我們召開校事會議公聽會，我想在座兩位也都在現場聽了很久，針對昨天九大教師公會、全教總等教團呼籲廢除校事會議的意見，次長有要先回應嗎？","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:31:49.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:32:08.290000+08:00","text":"雖然他們提出廢除校事會議，但也有家長團體及一些公協會反對，所以這個不是我在這邊說支不支持的問題，校事會議是一個制度，制度當然沒有辦法做到百分之百，但我們一直在優化，這也是當年教師法修法時的授權，2019年修法授權……","quality":0.863},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:32:08.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:32:09.851000+08:00","text":"好，我大概知道了，沒關係。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:32:10.071000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:32:30.554000+08:00","text":"教育部目前強調新制實施後，將解聘與考核兩種案件分流，投訴案件較校正前的同期都有減少，這是你們一直以來在說的，就是不受理案件比率增加，但案件數下降是否就代表教師的恐懼下降？","quality":0.785},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:32:31.555000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:32:32.435000+08:00","text":"這個我們要探討一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:32:32.936000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:32:37.877000+08:00","text":"再來，案件數下降，是否就代表整個校園的信任恢復？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:32:37.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:32:39.198000+08:00","text":"這個我們也應該要了解一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:32:40.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:33:13.240000+08:00","text":"我覺得案件數下降是否代表制度變得更公平，有待查證，許多教師在第一線的感受還是恰恰相反，一份調查報告可能就影響了教師的整個考核、懲處、停聘、解聘，甚至不續聘，事實上，就足以決定一個教師職涯的生死，所以今天我想就幾個問題跟次長探討，校事會議走的程序保障不足，這你有發現嗎？","quality":0.901},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:33:15.031000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:33:17.114000+08:00","text":"委員講的保障不足是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:33:17.114000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:33:52.305000+08:00","text":"我想真正決定案件走向的，往往不是法院，而是前端的調查，即第一線、第一次訪談時怎麼回答、哪些證據被提出、哪些事實被記錄，這些往往就決定了後續調查的方向，所以當校事會議已經足以影響教師職涯的生死權和名譽權時，為何教師在調查程序中，沒有法律扶助的制度？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:33:55.757000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:33:57.920000+08:00","text":"其實我們現在也在研議給予支持……","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:33:57.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:34:08.832000+08:00","text":"為何不能提供法律諮詢或程序協助、專業陪同，由律師、專業單位陪同他們一起來做調查，我認為程序保障……","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:34:09.373000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:34:16.259000+08:00","text":"我們現在有一個輔佐人機制，就是已經有修改，他可以有輔佐人，輔佐人就包括律師或者他的教師同仁……","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:34:16.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:34:21.464000+08:00","text":"這是你後續的新制，就是1月12日之後的，對不對？對、對。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:34:21.464000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:34:24.206000+08:00","text":"我要講的是之前我們遇到這樣的狀況……","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:34:24.206000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T12:34:25.206000+08:00","text":"我了解，所以我們之後有增加……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:34:24.206000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:34:48.621000+08:00","text":"我要強調的是把它放大，我們希望程序的保障不是包庇不適任的老師，而是確保調查的品質跟事實的發現，所以在你們後續的修正，我認為7月還有一個修正的機會，即在整個過程中加入輔佐人機制，這幾個月的大數據，你們也都要稍微了解……","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:34:48.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:34:55.665000+08:00","text":"對，像輔佐人的機制要怎麼落實，還有第二個就是老師如果遇到這樣的問題，有沒有一些比較專業機構的法律諮詢……","quality":0.745},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:34:58.527000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:34:59.467000+08:00","text":"我希望他們在陪同的過程中……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:35:00.088000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:35:05.490000+08:00","text":"我們會想辦法來設計這個制度，跟地方政府討論……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:35:06.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:35:07.430000+08:00","text":"讓制度更加完善。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:35:07.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:35:08.831000+08:00","text":"是，我們會來想辦法。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:35:09.271000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:35:19.215000+08:00","text":"好，所以我還是那句話，上次在這邊我問部長，他沒有得出一個答案，現在看起來，調和機制是會有的，對不對？","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:35:20.435000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:35:33.522000+08:00","text":"1月12號新制上路之後，在進入校事會議之前，我們就有設計那個制度，希望它是一個調和機制，從人才庫裡找到有教師背景的代表、家長背景的代表，以及第三方公正人士，然後由校長召集……","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:35:33.882000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:35:34.763000+08:00","text":"7月以後會更明確吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:35:36.403000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:35:41.065000+08:00","text":"今天也有委員提到，除了校內調和機制外，校外的第三方公正機制……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:35:41.185000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:35:42.006000+08:00","text":"上次我有建議嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:35:42.006000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T12:35:43.006000+08:00","text":"有一個調解……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:35:42.306000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:35:50.369000+08:00","text":"就像法制單位都有所謂的調解，但是他們希望是有教保人員資格，或者教師資格的人來擔任調和。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:35:50.729000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:35:51.069000+08:00","text":"對、對，這個建議我們可以考慮、研議。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:35:56.692000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:36:08.721000+08:00","text":"好，所以我才想這一次審理教師解聘及考核辦法，有機會我們先退回，由你們重新擬定新的方案再送進來，是吧？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:36:09.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:36:11.266000+08:00","text":"校事會議已經施行，怎麼退回？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:36:12.267000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:36:15.931000+08:00","text":"目前大院有交辦委員會要審查相關辦法。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:36:16.671000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:36:19.754000+08:00","text":"你們依法自己決定，我們尊重大院的決定。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:36:20.274000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:36:22.757000+08:00","text":"基本上已經到委員會的責任了嘛……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:36:22.757000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T12:36:23.757000+08:00","text":"看委員會怎麼決定，我們尊重，我們依照法制進行……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:36:23.557000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:36:32.686000+08:00","text":"如果我擔任召委排案的話，我們希望有這個機會退回，到時候你們有新的辦法，比如7月再送進來，這也是不無可能。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:36:34.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:36:40.818000+08:00","text":"這個部分也是希望大家要重視，能夠將校事會議相關的辦法研擬得更加完善。好。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:36:41.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:36:46.867000+08:00","text":"最後我要講的是電子煙，現在非常難抓，報紙上都在講罰不到4件。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:36:48.184000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:37:03.910000+08:00","text":"校園的部分也是上報，「易藏匿、難辨味電子煙入侵國中小」，所以現在我們看到要引進所謂的第五級保全是為了校園反毒。","quality":0.653},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:37:05.030000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:37:23.215000+08:00","text":"我想問，現在國教署統計涉嫌攜帶使用電子煙的校園通報案件3年飆升7倍，2025年累積有1,692件，估計逾四萬多名國高中生吸食電子煙。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:37:24.275000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:37:26.436000+08:00","text":"次長，這個數據是有查到的，但是有沒有沒查到的黑數？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:37:26.436000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:37:26.536000+08:00","text":"請業務單位說明一下數據的部分。","quality":0.357},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-24T12:37:33.286000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:37:51.221000+08:00","text":"委員剛才講有沒有黑數，其實原來沒有這個法規的時候，即114年之前沒有統計，後來有了，114年1月、114年11月分別調查之後就變成比較高，而且也比較多被通報出來……","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:37:52.281000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:37:53.421000+08:00","text":"所以黑數就被揭發了！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-24T12:37:53.761000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:37:56.402000+08:00","text":"對，以前是不用通報，後來從114年開始才要通報。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:37:56.602000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:38:08.165000+08:00","text":"但是我要再講電子煙沒有菸味，如果學生要在學校抽菸，比較不容易被發現，所以教師在第一線辨識的難度大大提升。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:38:09.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:38:26.154000+08:00","text":"此外，依托咪酯等煙油可以分開存放，讓老師根本找不到正在吸毒的證據，導致校方除了沒收電子煙載具之外，基本上拿學生沒轍，所以要怎麼樣讓第一線的老師有辨識的機會？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:38:26.154000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:38:30.056000+08:00","text":"上次也有提到可能還要再驗毒。尿液……","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:38:31.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:38:43.885000+08:00","text":"我想校園反毒的策略都是宣傳，抓到就是春暉輔導，面對施用型態的改變，現行策略是否過於被動，做法是不是應該調整？","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:38:43.885000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T12:38:46.324000+08:00","text":"次長，春暉輔導夠嗎？","quality":0.125},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:38:46.324000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:39:08.682000+08:00","text":"我們校園的反毒是非常積極，沒有被動，包括校安人員等所有人力，除了校外的少輔會或者是警察，針對9,192處的高風險場域，我們都有定期在巡查，而且是跟警政單位合作。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:39:09.102000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:39:10.283000+08:00","text":"我知道你們都有積極在處理這個問題……","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:39:10.884000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:39:12.306000+08:00","text":"對，所以你才會看到那個數據。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:39:12.306000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:39:22.176000+08:00","text":"可是我認為現在反毒還是不堪一擊，因為面對新型態不斷地在侵擾，讓整個校園變得更不安全，不是你們沒作為……","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:39:22.176000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:39:22.697000+08:00","text":"更複雜、更複雜，所以這個複雜的情境我們需要……","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:39:22.857000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:39:29.223000+08:00","text":"在這個複雜的過程當中，讓我們的反毒策略有待再精進。","quality":0.565},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:39:29.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:39:29.763000+08:00","text":"沒有錯。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:39:30.704000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:39:37.970000+08:00","text":"有關春暉輔導的部分，青少年吸毒再犯高達35%，所以春暉輔導有待加強！","quality":0.69},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:39:37.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:39:48.998000+08:00","text":"我們到地方，我問校安人員包括學校教官有沒有確實入班，他們是班班入班宣導，而且5分鐘、10分鐘，甚至不斷地在講。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:39:49.118000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:40:03.527000+08:00","text":"我也調了三千七百多所學校當中，每一所學校涉犯到尿液檢篩出來有毒品反應的，其實分布是比較點狀式的，不像我們在韓國的戲劇看到整個學校……","quality":0.836},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:40:03.687000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:40:04.667000+08:00","text":"當然不可能一整個學校，我知道！","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:40:05.348000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:40:06.568000+08:00","text":"不是這樣的情況。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:40:07.188000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:40:21.174000+08:00","text":"我們當然也跟警政單位合作，最重要的是這些孩子在哪邊拿到這些毒品或者毒煙，我們是透過警政系統在校外的高風險場域溯源去抓。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:40:22.295000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:40:29.517000+08:00","text":"我還是真的要特別拜託，因為我要提的是第二個、再犯率，再犯率高達35%，春暉輔導能不能有效協助……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:40:31.258000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:40:31.658000+08:00","text":"這個我們會來檢討。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:40:31.658000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:40:41.861000+08:00","text":"我認為要有檢討，包括它的改革時程跟重點，我覺得相關的反毒策略要調整一下機制，可不可以兩個月內給我資料，說明你們要怎麼樣調整？好。","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:40:42.121000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:40:46.282000+08:00","text":"我一直在跟你們講，你們的反毒策略有問題，我已經講好幾次了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:40:46.863000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:40:51.544000+08:00","text":"我想不是你們不好，而是需要精進，因為面對新型態真的是不夠。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:40:51.704000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:40:52.664000+08:00","text":"如果委員有更好的意見，我們都會採納。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:40:56.126000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:41:02.990000+08:00","text":"現在行政院政委季連成拋出第五級保全，有沒有跟教育部討論過？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:41:02.990000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:41:09.995000+08:00","text":"他是好意建議，他在跨部會會議裡面問學校裡面校安人力夠不夠？","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:41:09.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:41:10.655000+08:00","text":"我們是說不夠。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:41:10.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:41:11.395000+08:00","text":"對，有沒有跟你討論過？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:41:12.592000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:41:14.154000+08:00","text":"他是在跨部會會議裡面有詢問到。","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:41:14.515000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:41:15.456000+08:00","text":"在當下跟你討論……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:41:15.456000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:41:17.158000+08:00","text":"對，就只有這個會議，他是好意建議。","quality":0.357},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:41:17.158000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:41:18.660000+08:00","text":"教育部目前贊成嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:41:18.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:41:23.306000+08:00","text":"我們跟他講，現有的校安人力其實已經有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:41:24.207000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:41:28.073000+08:00","text":"第五級保全跟現行校安有什麼不同，可不可以說清楚、講明白？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡司長宜靜","start":"2026-06-24T12:41:28.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:41:43.107000+08:00","text":"第五級保全以政委的概念，其實跟校安是一樣的，他是擔心有些學校人力不足，可以研議納入第五級保全這樣的方式。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:41:45.868000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:41:48.849000+08:00","text":"為什麼校安有薪資天花板的限制，第五級保全沒有？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:41:50.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:41:56.937000+08:00","text":"反而他們可以領到5萬，我想就跟我和葉元之提的版本一樣。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:41:56.937000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T12:41:57.937000+08:00","text":"因為那時候背景特殊。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:41:57.077000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:42:09.954000+08:00","text":"它的背景特殊，那是你們說的OK、沒關係，我們可以尊重，但為什麼我跟葉元之提的版本就被說是雙薪肥貓，結果政委提出來就變成好棒棒？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:42:10.675000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:42:22.973000+08:00","text":"我覺得大家都是為了第一線的校安在努力，沒有說誰的方法一定是對的，但是提出讓大家探討來提升校安，這個是普遍民眾都能夠接受的。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:42:24.295000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:42:37.891000+08:00","text":"成立第五級保全或與警方等單位策略聯防，學校須與警方簽訂支援協定，警方在有情資的時候可以進入校園查緝或協助。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:42:38.912000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:42:45.740000+08:00","text":"請問次長，現行就有警察入校園的規範，現在行政院又在談警察入校園，區別在哪裡？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:42:46.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:42:57.376000+08:00","text":"沒有，如果涉及到刑案偵辦，譬如學校請求協助，因為學校沒有偵辦能力，警方也是要依相關法令程序進入校園。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:42:58.758000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:43:01.742000+08:00","text":"所以本來就有警察入校園這個部分的規範……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:43:01.742000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T12:43:03.164000+08:00","text":"對，內政部有規範。","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:43:03.164000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:43:10.570000+08:00","text":"我不懂這個時候行政院又提出要跟警察有情資聯繫、查緝協助……","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:43:11.011000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:43:13.873000+08:00","text":"他是希望我們加強，當然我們就是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:43:14.053000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:43:18.497000+08:00","text":"好，可以加強，你有辦法再生出更加強版的，我們都樂觀其成……","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:43:18.497000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T12:43:19.717000+08:00","text":"大家都是求好心切。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:43:19.717000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:43:21.518000+08:00","text":"希望能夠更加完善。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:43:22.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:43:43.223000+08:00","text":"但是我希望不要同一件事情明明校園已經有了，結果又拿出來再談一次，要就具體看怎麼樣能夠聯防，讓整個校園的資訊跟警察連線之後，能夠提升校園安全又不會喪失學生、老師該有的權益，這個部分要再加強，好嗎？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-24T12:43:43.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:43:43.243000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員廷瑋","start":"2026-06-24T12:43:43.243000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T12:43:45.741500+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-24T12:43:45.741500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T12:43:48.240000+08:00","text":"謝謝羅廷瑋召委。","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-24T12:43:48.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-24T12:43:48.943000+08:00","text":"請次長回座，謝謝。","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-24T12:43:49.443000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T12:43:55.728714+08:00","text":"下一位有請何欣純委員、何欣純委員，何欣純委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-24T12:43:56.028714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-24T12:44:00.028714+08:00","text":"下一位有請羅智強委員進行詢答。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1937,"blocks":[["羅委員廷瑋：（12時25分）謝謝主席，請邀請次長。"],["主席：有請次長。"],["張廖次長萬堅：召委好。"],["羅委員廷瑋：次長，在談論今天的專題前，我有幾個問題想跟你就教一下，你有沒有發現臺灣的小朋友都戴眼鏡居多？"],["張廖次長萬堅：對。"],["羅委員廷瑋：有沒有？國教署署長，我們上次去日本的時候，你有沒有印象，好像日本的小朋友戴眼鏡的比較少？回想一下。"],["彭署長富源：對，我們那天去看了一個小學，五年級的小學生……"],["羅委員廷瑋：小朋友戴眼鏡……"],["彭署長富源：對，看起來比較少一點。"],["羅委員廷瑋：國外真的反而比較少，眼睛是靈魂之窗，根據國健署最新統計，臺灣國小一年級學童的近視率高達兩成，到了小六更逼近七成，這不只是數字的問題，這是嚴重公共衛生的國安危機！眼科醫學會對學童視力不良率的關心，希望可以整合整個視力的數據，建立資料庫，我們看到新聞都有報導，已經都上報了，國健署這邊也不斷強調對於孩童視力的關心，希望在現階段整合大數據，提前掌握孩子視力變化的趨勢，在孩子變成高度近視或者眼睛病變之前，制定更精準的近視防治政策，建立完整追蹤機制，可是現在的問題是，這是國健署講的，整個問題卡在教育部沒有辦法上傳資料、提供數據，因為看不到資料，沒有辦法追蹤高風險的近視兒童，所以近視防治的這一塊就缺了一角。次長，現在眼科醫學會跟衛福部倡議的是希望建立一套由校園篩檢出來的完整視力追蹤機制，所以次長，教育部願不願意承諾一個月內召開跨部會會議，想辦法提供資料，讓這個追蹤機制能夠完整？"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們會跟各縣市談，就是針對疾管署、各縣市，或者委員手上資料的眼科學會，我們會來跟他們了解整個狀況，以及他們需要的資料。"],["羅委員廷瑋：根據報導指出，國健署魏副署長表示教育部沒有提供這個資料啊！"],["張廖次長萬堅：可能有一些個資的問題，我們……"],["羅委員廷瑋：大家一直說個資、個資的問題，可是如果你去問家長，家長一定百分之百同意，因為部會之間可以相互利用這樣的資訊來整合追蹤機制，讓政府有辦法在孩童視力病變之前或高度近視之前，產生因應政策，所以我希望教育部不要行政怠惰，甚至是用沒有這樣的法規……是法規沒有授權給你嗎？如果是這樣，你們是不是應該提出一些意見，讓委員們來幫忙呢？"],["彭署長富源：對。"],["羅委員廷瑋：現在我們把問題提出來了，希望能夠找出共同的解決辦法，你能夠承諾一個月內提出解決辦法嗎？"],["彭署長富源：委員講的這個時間點，我們會依據這個時間來處理……"],["羅委員廷瑋：可以嗎？一個月？"],["彭署長富源：有一個意見也給委員分享一下，我們跟國健署合作，剛好在昨天去查了111學年到113學年學生近視的現況，我們發現經過跟國健署的努力，國中跟國小部分分別有減低的情形，國小減低了大概0.49%，國中減低了1.22%，所以我們跟國健署一直都有在努力，現在繼續努力。至於剛剛講的一些特殊情形，能不能在個資相關，甚至疾管署的一些疫調或相關專業上，給我們一點支持，因為剛剛講的不是大數據、不是去識別化，委員剛剛講的我有比較注意聽，你講的是特別的……"],["羅委員廷瑋：我講的是……"],["彭署長富源：對，你講的是特別的，所以容我們跟各地方政府的專業夥伴，還有疾管署、衛福部來查，但我要特別說明，謝謝委員關心，其實我們跟國健署一直有在合作，二十年來，一直就學生視力、體位、蛀牙等或是菸檳……"],["羅委員廷瑋：我知道，你們很關注。"],["彭署長富源：都一起努力，繼續努力。"],["羅委員廷瑋：但現在既然已經上報了，他們也有提到希望你們可以提供數據，你們看要怎麼整合，一個月內……"],["彭署長富源：沒問題……"],["羅委員廷瑋：解決辦法出來……"],["彭署長富源：就那個特殊個案上要怎麼突破，我們來處理，大數據的去識別化應該還好處理，就特殊個案……"],["羅委員廷瑋：特殊的，我要的是特殊的。"],["彭署長富源：對啊！所以這個要怎麼處理，真的……"],["羅委員廷瑋：跟大數據不太一樣，因為那個去識別化，沒辦法追蹤孩子的進度嘛！"],["彭署長富源：對啊！所以委員一講就清楚，是不是容我們把比較困難的部分……"],["羅委員廷瑋：你們再討論看看，後續我也會再召集教育部、衛福部，還有眼科醫學會，大家共同來討論這一題，我想大家都希望能夠關注校園近視的問題。"],["張廖次長萬堅：好，謝謝委員關心。"],["羅委員廷瑋：第二個問題，有關校事會議這個事情，我也要請教教育部，的確，我也接過兩、三個家長會跟我陳情，聘請委員的部分，學校都說沒有費用，希望家長會能夠幫忙出費用、幫忙募款，這是事實，這點你們一定要注意，所以7月你們的新辦法出來，就經費這個區塊，是不是也應該檢討？"],["張廖次長萬堅：好，我們會一併來檢討。"],["羅委員廷瑋：再來，我要跟你探討的是，上週一我們召開校事會議公聽會，我想在座兩位也都在現場聽了很久，針對昨天九大教師公會、全教總等教團呼籲廢除校事會議的意見，次長有要先回應嗎？"],["張廖次長萬堅：雖然他們提出廢除校事會議，但也有家長團體及一些公協會反對，所以這個不是我在這邊說支不支持的問題，校事會議是一個制度，制度當然沒有辦法做到百分之百，但我們一直在優化，這也是當年教師法修法時的授權，2019年修法授權……"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，我大概知道了，沒關係。教育部目前強調新制實施後，將解聘與考核兩種案件分流，投訴案件較校正前的同期都有減少，這是你們一直以來在說的，就是不受理案件比率增加，但案件數下降是否就代表教師的恐懼下降？這個我們要探討一下。再來，案件數下降，是否就代表整個校園的信任恢復？這個我們也應該要了解一下。我覺得案件數下降是否代表制度變得更公平，有待查證，許多教師在第一線的感受還是恰恰相反，一份調查報告可能就影響了教師的整個考核、懲處、停聘、解聘，甚至不續聘，事實上，就足以決定一個教師職涯的生死，所以今天我想就幾個問題跟次長探討，校事會議走的程序保障不足，這你有發現嗎？"],["張廖次長萬堅：委員講的保障不足是什麼？"],["羅委員廷瑋：我想真正決定案件走向的，往往不是法院，而是前端的調查，即第一線、第一次訪談時怎麼回答、哪些證據被提出、哪些事實被記錄，這些往往就決定了後續調查的方向，所以當校事會議已經足以影響教師職涯的生死權和名譽權時，為何教師在調查程序中，沒有法律扶助的制度？"],["張廖次長萬堅：其實我們現在也在研議給予支持……"],["羅委員廷瑋：為何不能提供法律諮詢或程序協助、專業陪同，由律師、專業單位陪同他們一起來做調查，我認為程序保障……"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們現在有一個輔佐人機制，就是已經有修改，他可以有輔佐人，輔佐人就包括律師或者他的教師同仁……"],["羅委員廷瑋：這是你後續的新制，就是1月12日之後的，對不對？"],["張廖次長萬堅：對、對。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我要講的是之前我們遇到這樣的狀況……"],["張廖次長萬堅：我了解，所以我們之後有增加……"],["羅委員廷瑋：我要強調的是把它放大，我們希望程序的保障不是包庇不適任的老師，而是確保調查的品質跟事實的發現，所以在你們後續的修正，我認為7月還有一個修正的機會，即在整個過程中加入輔佐人機制，這幾個月的大數據，你們也都要稍微了解……"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，像輔佐人的機制要怎麼落實，還有第二個就是老師如果遇到這樣的問題，有沒有一些比較專業機構的法律諮詢……"],["羅委員廷瑋：我希望他們在陪同的過程中……"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們會想辦法來設計這個制度，跟地方政府討論……"],["羅委員廷瑋：讓制度更加完善。"],["張廖次長萬堅：是，我們會來想辦法。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，所以我還是那句話，上次在這邊我問部長，他沒有得出一個答案，現在看起來，調和機制是會有的，對不對？"],["張廖次長萬堅：1月12號新制上路之後，在進入校事會議之前，我們就有設計那個制度，希望它是一個調和機制，從人才庫裡找到有教師背景的代表、家長背景的代表，以及第三方公正人士，然後由校長召集……"],["羅委員廷瑋：7月以後會更明確吧？"],["張廖次長萬堅：今天也有委員提到，除了校內調和機制外，校外的第三方公正機制……"],["羅委員廷瑋：上次我有建議嘛！"],["張廖次長萬堅：有一個調解……"],["羅委員廷瑋：就像法制單位都有所謂的調解，但是他們希望是有教保人員資格，或者教師資格的人來擔任調和。"],["張廖次長萬堅：對、對，這個建議我們可以考慮、研議。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，所以我才想這一次審理教師解聘及考核辦法，有機會我們先退回，由你們重新擬定新的方案再送進來，是吧？"],["張廖次長萬堅：校事會議已經施行，怎麼退回？"],["羅委員廷瑋：目前大院有交辦委員會要審查相關辦法。"],["張廖次長萬堅：你們依法自己決定，我們尊重大院的決定。"],["羅委員廷瑋：基本上已經到委員會的責任了嘛……"],["張廖次長萬堅：看委員會怎麼決定，我們尊重，我們依照法制進行……"],["羅委員廷瑋：如果我擔任召委排案的話，我們希望有這個機會退回，到時候你們有新的辦法，比如7月再送進來，這也是不無可能。這個部分也是希望大家要重視，能夠將校事會議相關的辦法研擬得更加完善。"],["張廖次長萬堅：好。"],["羅委員廷瑋：最後我要講的是電子煙，現在非常難抓，報紙上都在講罰不到4件。校園的部分也是上報，「易藏匿、難辨味電子煙入侵國中小」，所以現在我們看到要引進所謂的第五級保全是為了校園反毒。我想問，現在國教署統計涉嫌攜帶使用電子煙的校園通報案件3年飆升7倍，2025年累積有1,692件，估計逾四萬多名國高中生吸食電子煙。次長，這個數據是有查到的，但是有沒有沒查到的黑數？"],["張廖次長萬堅：請業務單位說明一下數據的部分。"],["彭署長富源：委員剛才講有沒有黑數，其實原來沒有這個法規的時候，即114年之前沒有統計，後來有了，114年1月、114年11月分別調查之後就變成比較高，而且也比較多被通報出來……"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以黑數就被揭發了！"],["彭署長富源：對，以前是不用通報，後來從114年開始才要通報。"],["羅委員廷瑋：但是我要再講電子煙沒有菸味，如果學生要在學校抽菸，比較不容易被發現，所以教師在第一線辨識的難度大大提升。此外，依托咪酯等煙油可以分開存放，讓老師根本找不到正在吸毒的證據，導致校方除了沒收電子煙載具之外，基本上拿學生沒轍，所以要怎麼樣讓第一線的老師有辨識的機會？上次也有提到可能還要再驗毒。"],["張廖次長萬堅：尿液……"],["羅委員廷瑋：我想校園反毒的策略都是宣傳，抓到就是春暉輔導，面對施用型態的改變，現行策略是否過於被動，做法是不是應該調整？次長，春暉輔導夠嗎？"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們校園的反毒是非常積極，沒有被動，包括校安人員等所有人力，除了校外的少輔會或者是警察，針對9,192處的高風險場域，我們都有定期在巡查，而且是跟警政單位合作。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我知道你們都有積極在處理這個問題……"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，所以你才會看到那個數據。"],["羅委員廷瑋：可是我認為現在反毒還是不堪一擊，因為面對新型態不斷地在侵擾，讓整個校園變得更不安全，不是你們沒作為……"],["張廖次長萬堅：更複雜、更複雜，所以這個複雜的情境我們需要……"],["羅委員廷瑋：在這個複雜的過程當中，讓我們的反毒策略有待再精進。"],["張廖次長萬堅：沒有錯。"],["羅委員廷瑋：有關春暉輔導的部分，青少年吸毒再犯高達35%，所以春暉輔導有待加強！"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們到地方，我問校安人員包括學校教官有沒有確實入班，他們是班班入班宣導，而且5分鐘、10分鐘，甚至不斷地在講。我也調了三千七百多所學校當中，每一所學校涉犯到尿液檢篩出來有毒品反應的，其實分布是比較點狀式的，不像我們在韓國的戲劇看到整個學校……"],["羅委員廷瑋：當然不可能一整個學校，我知道！"],["張廖次長萬堅：不是這樣的情況。我們當然也跟警政單位合作，最重要的是這些孩子在哪邊拿到這些毒品或者毒煙，我們是透過警政系統在校外的高風險場域溯源去抓。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我還是真的要特別拜託，因為我要提的是第二個、再犯率，再犯率高達35%，春暉輔導能不能有效協助……"],["張廖次長萬堅：這個我們會來檢討。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我認為要有檢討，包括它的改革時程跟重點，我覺得相關的反毒策略要調整一下機制，可不可以兩個月內給我資料，說明你們要怎麼樣調整？"],["張廖次長萬堅：好。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我一直在跟你們講，你們的反毒策略有問題，我已經講好幾次了。我想不是你們不好，而是需要精進，因為面對新型態真的是不夠。"],["張廖次長萬堅：如果委員有更好的意見，我們都會採納。"],["羅委員廷瑋：現在行政院政委季連成拋出第五級保全，有沒有跟教育部討論過？"],["張廖次長萬堅：他是好意建議，他在跨部會會議裡面問學校裡面校安人力夠不夠？我們是說不夠。"],["羅委員廷瑋：對，有沒有跟你討論過？"],["張廖次長萬堅：他是在跨部會會議裡面有詢問到。"],["羅委員廷瑋：在當下跟你討論……"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，就只有這個會議，他是好意建議。"],["羅委員廷瑋：教育部目前贊成嗎？"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們跟他講，現有的校安人力其實已經有。"],["羅委員廷瑋：第五級保全跟現行校安有什麼不同，可不可以說清楚、講明白？"],["蔡司長宜靜：第五級保全以政委的概念，其實跟校安是一樣的，他是擔心有些學校人力不足，可以研議納入第五級保全這樣的方式。"],["羅委員廷瑋：為什麼校安有薪資天花板的限制，第五級保全沒有？反而他們可以領到5萬，我想就跟我和葉元之提的版本一樣。"],["張廖次長萬堅：因為那時候背景特殊。"],["羅委員廷瑋：它的背景特殊，那是你們說的OK、沒關係，我們可以尊重，但為什麼我跟葉元之提的版本就被說是雙薪肥貓，結果政委提出來就變成好棒棒？我覺得大家都是為了第一線的校安在努力，沒有說誰的方法一定是對的，但是提出讓大家探討來提升校安，這個是普遍民眾都能夠接受的。成立第五級保全或與警方等單位策略聯防，學校須與警方簽訂支援協定，警方在有情資的時候可以進入校園查緝或協助。請問次長，現行就有警察入校園的規範，現在行政院又在談警察入校園，區別在哪裡？"],["張廖次長萬堅：沒有，如果涉及到刑案偵辦，譬如學校請求協助，因為學校沒有偵辦能力，警方也是要依相關法令程序進入校園。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以本來就有警察入校園這個部分的規範……"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，內政部有規範。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我不懂這個時候行政院又提出要跟警察有情資聯繫、查緝協助……"],["張廖次長萬堅：他是希望我們加強，當然我們就是……"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，可以加強，你有辦法再生出更加強版的，我們都樂觀其成……"],["張廖次長萬堅：大家都是求好心切。"],["羅委員廷瑋：希望能夠更加完善。但是我希望不要同一件事情明明校園已經有了，結果又拿出來再談一次，要就具體看怎麼樣能夠聯防，讓整個校園的資訊跟警察連線之後，能夠提升校園安全又不會喪失學生、老師該有的權益，這個部分要再加強，好嗎？"],["張廖次長萬堅：好，謝謝。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝羅廷瑋召委。請次長回座，謝謝。","下一位有請何欣純委員、何欣純委員，何欣純委員不在。","下一位有請羅智強委員進行詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":370,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-22-17","speakers":["伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳培瑜","柯志恩","葛如鈞","陳秀寳","林宜瑾","蔡春綢","葉元之","吳思瑤","吳沛憶","范雲","張雅琳","洪孟楷","王安祥","羅廷瑋","羅智強","盧縣一","傅崐萁","徐欣瑩","何欣純","黃捷","林倩綺"],"page_start":195,"meetingDate":["2026-06-24"],"gazette_id":"1155302","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155302_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請教育部政務次長張廖萬堅列席就「校事會議暨教師輔導管教制度與兒少相關權益探討」進行\n專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1155302_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}