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國家通訊傳播委員會 公平交易委員會 最高檢察署都有代理的狀況 這個您了解吧是您了解 那我想請問您 您覺得這個憲政跟獨立機關首長以我們剛剛所講的持續缺額 持續需要代理 是一個民主的常態嗎"},{"start":140.911,"end":169.286,"text":"當然我們期待在縣政機關彼此之間一定要折衝前立出應該有的首長這是必然的您剛講的折衝這個部分我很同意可是現在需要折衝的不是只有一個機關我們看到的司法院監察院國家通訊傳播委員會公民教育委員會還有最高檢察署首長都是代理"},{"start":170.94,"end":193.323,"text":"那這些是不是都算是憲政機關 獨立機關對 沒錯那這麼多的憲政機關跟獨立機關都持續缺額 嚴重到需要代理你覺得這是民主常態嗎當然不是當然不是民主常態那到底是為什麼"},{"start":195.131,"end":220.642,"text":"我剛剛在報告裡面說的這真的要仰賴大院、貴院跟總統跟行政一定要去折衝協力出剛剛秘書長也提到了實際的忠誠義務我只能夠這樣回答所以您認同就是說這麼多的憲政跟獨立機關首長持續缺額需要代理真的不是民主常態嗎"},{"start":221.662,"end":242.802,"text":"如果只有一個我們可能說這個是誰折衝並沒有做好或者等等但是這麼多個然後從我剛看到的這個表格2024年考試院算是受傷最輕的啦只有一位被砍到後來那您也認同這其實這麼多的重要的憲政機關獨立機關合格的人選都並不多嘛"},{"start":246.425,"end":257.887,"text":"那是不是會導致其實再來的提名也會更困難因為願意擔任的人越來越少或許應該會有這種狀況因為有挫折感"},{"start":259.401,"end":261.663,"text":"我們是完全依照司法院組織法的規定"},{"start":278.925,"end":305.087,"text":"被總統指定任命的那你們是依照哪一個法處理這個代理應該是司法院主要第七條所以你們目前的代理制度完全符合相關的規範嗎是的就如同你們的報告是的那好我想您是司法院應該對我們的所有的法制都了解那考試院的部分那您的理解是不是也依照就是相關的代理規範對"},{"start":306.548,"end":322.616,"text":"他們應該就有三個是有規定的那就是它是依照考試院組織法第八條考試院院長因事故不能事事時由副院長代理其職務所以也都有遵守相關的規範嘛"},{"start":323.937,"end":330.267,"text":"那監察院呢 代理的制度有沒有遵守相關的規範監察院指示法也有相關規定那是哪一條法律 您知道嗎他們應該是由副院長代理的"},{"start":340.521,"end":360.731,"text":"是依照監察院組織法第六條就是院長出缺的時候由副院長代理其代理期間至總統提名繼任院長經立法院同意總統任命之日為止那您看起來這個副院長代理依照我們這個監察院組織法可能要代理到什麼時候"},{"start":362.621,"end":369.109,"text":"像組織法裡面並沒有極限規定因為一般民主常態不會想像到會有這麼多憲政機關無法產生人選"},{"start":372.929,"end":400.181,"text":"那當然像以司法院大法官他的任期介制就沒有了所以其實副院長依照我們監察院組織法要代理到何時我們並不清楚嗎因為如果無法產生他們的任期介制的話其實跟大法官一樣如果原有就有任期那介制就沒有了所以我們以民主國家的常態目前的這些法規都並沒有問題嗎"},{"start":402.314,"end":428.553,"text":"最少我認為司法院組織法是沒有問題因為我們現在處理的就像您剛講的不是民主常態對不對可是跟委員報告好代理是一個法律規定的必要事項那至於沒有產生一直無法產生人選的代理就不是民主常態對不對沒有產生人選不是民主常態"},{"start":429.213,"end":444.285,"text":"可是不能說代理不是民主常態當然我同意就是代理是民主中偶爾會遇到的狀況當然需要而且法律原本是規範是良善的那現在我們遇到的狀況不是民主常態"},{"start":445.046,"end":470.733,"text":"因為就是國會的多數不管是因為怎麼樣的理由人選不夠好或是各方面或者是說什麼總統沒有什麼鞋子等等就是蛇充的話那我們看到的就產生了一個非民主常態所以我們來看一下公交會國家通訊傳播委員會中央選舉委員會其實都有相關的法源依據都有相關的首長代理的規範"},{"start":472.033,"end":497.971,"text":"所以再來看今天很多的爭議重點之一最高檢察署現在的代理有沒有違反法源依據請那個可不可以請部長來他比較熟悉所以鄭部長要回答嗎那請部長來回答好了就原本的法規是怎麼規定這個代理的"},{"start":499.461,"end":519.922,"text":"跟委員報告這個是法院組織法66條那其實那個他規定的是66條的那個第3第4款的就是種子有因故或因故出缺或無法實施而出缺這部分的確是要有一個一個要在三個月內要提出一個人選"},{"start":520.743,"end":543.047,"text":"那那個就命那個任命之後呢任命之後那個任期四年是重新起算而且不能連任那但是因為他第六款他第四款規定的是中途就在總長在在任期的中途之間因故或者無好時事的情形譬如說請辭這也是一個一個一個一個"},{"start":545.948,"end":574.828,"text":"一個的確是一個固嘛因固因為那另外第六款他是說總長卸職的時候要一第二款就是由總統來提名立法院通過後任命嘛這是第六款的一個規定那當然要提名這部分的確說如果說萬一卸職的時候如果說卸職沒有人選沒有過因為這個法律沒有規定到這部分那當然我們就會巡禮還有那些那個來做一些的指定那個指派代理"},{"start":575.478,"end":593.013,"text":"所以因為法律沒有規定因為法律並沒有想像到有這種非民主常態這麼多的人事案這麼多的首長最後都出缺需要代理所以我想至少目前並沒有違反任何一個相關的法源規範嗎目前沒有"},{"start":594.935,"end":599.8,"text":"目前沒有 請回我想討論了這麼久謝謝剛剛高秘書長其實你點出了一個重點現在我們要討論的議題不是民主常態所以我們想要把法規修得更精確應付非民主常態我沒有特別的意見但我覺得"},{"start":619.46,"end":636.741,"text":"應該要回來正視這個問題代理只是結果這種大量的憲政機關獨立機關因為人事無法通過需要代理的情況不是民主常態那不合理的杯葛人事案才是真正的原因喔"},{"start":637.262,"end":653.18,"text":"那所以呢謝謝昭偉今天這麼的安排想要精確的讓非民主常態的狀況的法規更完善那我也請昭偉可以反映一下我們立法院是不是可以人事案回歸理性審查"},{"start":654.341,"end":667.517,"text":"停止這種系統性的癱瘓憲政跟獨立機關那也請召委幫我們回應最根本的這個政治問題不要讓這種非民主常態持續癱瘓我們的憲政跟獨立機關好 謝謝好 謝謝范雲委員的提言"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}