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09:57:07","會議時間":"2026-06-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：審查一、委員羅美玲等18人擬具「道路交通管理處罰條例第二十一條條文修正草案」案、二、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「道路交通管理處罰條例部分條文修正草案」案、三、委員張智倫等19人、四、台灣民眾黨黨團、五、委員郭昱晴等17人、六、委員林思銘等22人、七、委員洪孟楷等21人、八、委員黃秀芳等20人、九、委員林倩綺等22人及十、委員邱鎮軍等20人分別擬具「道路交通管理處罰條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案、十一、委員傅崐萁等18人擬具「道路交通管理處罰條例第三十五條、第三十五條之一及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、十二、委員王義川等17人擬具「道路交通管理處罰條例第三十五條、第三十五條之二及第六十七條條文修正草案」案、十三、委員涂權吉等19人擬具「道路交通管理處罰條例第三十五條及第三十五條之三條文修正草案」案及十四、委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「道路交通管理處罰條例第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n【本日會議僅進行詢答；第二案、第七案至第十案、第十二案及第十三案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查；第六案及第十一案如經院會復議，則不予審查】【6月24日及25日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1.12784375,"end":3.4397187500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3.6590937500000003,"end":4.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.290968750000001,"end":10.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10.30784375,"end":10.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.67909375,"end":10.797218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10.797218750000003,"end":11.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12.450968750000001,"end":18.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19.89284375,"end":22.930343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23.672843750000002,"end":28.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":29.42721875,"end":36.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":37.89846875,"end":46.690343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":47.33159375,"end":49.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":49.98096875,"end":71.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":72.32346875,"end":83.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":84.20346875,"end":86.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":87.69659375,"end":95.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":96.04971875000001,"end":115.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":116.13096875000001,"end":117.76784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":118.02096875000001,"end":119.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.43409375,"end":138.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.90096875,"end":130.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":138.84471875,"end":147.40034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":145.42596875,"end":171.02534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":151.43346875,"end":153.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":157.44096875,"end":157.96409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.96409375000002,"end":158.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.47846875000002,"end":161.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":161.65971875,"end":161.76096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.76096875000002,"end":161.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":169.06784375,"end":169.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":171.02534375000002,"end":173.92784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":174.26534375,"end":181.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":181.80846875,"end":203.03721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":203.03721875000002,"end":208.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":205.39971875,"end":216.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.19534375,"end":221.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.12721875000003,"end":245.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":245.44409375,"end":254.84346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":254.96159375000002,"end":269.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.05284375,"end":265.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.64284375,"end":280.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":275.21159375,"end":275.43096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":279.70034375,"end":296.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.77596875,"end":283.37909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.07784375,"end":294.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.96346875,"end":303.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":298.60034375000004,"end":298.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":301.24971875,"end":302.85284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.07221875000005,"end":311.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":308.75909375000003,"end":309.99096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.03284375000004,"end":313.88909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":313.88909375000003,"end":316.74096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.20971875000004,"end":314.66534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.40784375000004,"end":316.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.74096875000004,"end":316.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.11221875,"end":327.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":328.14846875,"end":336.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":336.77159375,"end":347.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":348.24659375000005,"end":356.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":354.50721875000005,"end":355.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":355.19909375000003,"end":380.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.40346875,"end":374.79096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":380.03909375,"end":388.35846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":388.89846875,"end":402.162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主席謝謝 麻煩請陳次長好 請次長委員好好 次長好獨駕零容忍但是我們看到現在獨駕的事件還是頻傳就這兩天的新聞彰化大型連結車撞民宅獨駕車內搜出毒品還有槍彈駕駛遭羈押"},{"start":29.522,"end":34.349,"text":"前兩天獨駕在三歲女兒撞入安全帽墊駕駛是遇鵝網紅"},{"start":38.047,"end":66,"text":"還有我們看到6月20號的時候5000名警力全台抓毒將一個晚上查獲155件換言之這絕對不是冰山一角這其實是過去可能因為毒品的這個檢視沒有說那麼的明確而沒有辦法及時的掌握再加上新興毒品的氾濫現在吸食這一托米子的門檻非常的低甚至可能"},{"start":67.04,"end":94.298,"text":"購買也相對方便也因此造成這樣的一個漏洞但本時要講的是吸食毒品本身就已經是犯法更重要的是你不能吸食毒品之後還開車上路車子就已經變成是殺人兇器所以我想我們看到行政院的版本這邊有一起共同的方向那我就先來請教行政院的版本裡面是講是說所有毒價就是一路一路沒路車輛對不對好那我們要怎麼樣執行"},{"start":96.269,"end":119.258,"text":"說明一下因為現在的狀況本市有看到五千名警力全台抓獨駕一個晚上查獲一百五十五人當中扣留了一百五十四輛車好一百五十四輛車那這是第一步扣留就是在第一線的一個執行的時候你只要確認他是獨駕或說那個柿子有反應車輛馬上就扣留那再來是一致保管那一致保管之後怎麼樣"},{"start":120.795,"end":138.11,"text":"一致保管車輛以後 後續就要看獨駕的一個行為因為他有的可能是如果是觸犯刑法的話就會從刑事法令去完成相關的一個程序程序都完備了以後才確認是要沒入這個車輛"},{"start":138.871,"end":153.721,"text":"沒有 所以但是我現在講的是說我們先來版本嘛就我們要求就是獨駕就是末路車輛嘛本系列版本也是如此行政版本也是如此末路車輛只是最後的這個行政處分的的最終結但是你剛剛委員會不會提到所以這樣子有可能過程的時候查到"},{"start":154.341,"end":180.489,"text":"他查到的時候他的車輛就已經是我們一致保管其實就已經達到這個有點是末路就是他不能再使用了那至於他相關的程序如果是觸犯刑法的要刑法的相關的要程序要走完的以後通常一般的案件來講走完會多久這個就要看這個不是你們不能制定法令你不了解整個流程那如果不了解整個流程的話那有可能一個晚上就155台"},{"start":181.949,"end":202.041,"text":"那我們現在我現在就探討比較務實就怎麼樣執行層面因為本席剛剛提案說明你也有聽嘛我們重點是說我們現在拉很高就是說我告訴你說獨駕就是末路車輛所以大家不要心存僥倖那但是我現在要探討就是說實際你們要怎麼執行是交通部跟法務部跟警政署大家共同要配合啊"},{"start":202.561,"end":215.355,"text":"是沒有錯所以他的車子會先移到我們的監理機關監理機關所以目前監理機關有多少我們譬如說全台以台北市來講好不好台北市現在有多少譬如說獨駕我們已經這個一致的這個車輛放在監理機關"},{"start":217.25,"end":237.81,"text":"跟委員報告一下我大概補充說明一下就是說第一個部分的話大概現行稽查的部分的話大概就是說比如說這個獨駕或是這個酒駕的部分的話大概會有涉及到刑法跟處罰條例的一個部分那基本上涉及到行政法的一個部分的話就是當場舉發然後這個一致保管車輛"},{"start":240.413,"end":269.156,"text":"那一次保管車輛就會先拖回這個各執法機關的這個車輛局長你沒有聽得懂我的問題我現在是問說現在so far有多少因為就剛剛次長講說他不確定說這個流程要走多久假設三個月那三個月內有多少車輛就會被保管在那邊那以及我們現在講沒路如果說我們現在已經確定就是說我們的修法方案一次沒路的話那車輛就要處理嘛這是整個配套措施但目前為止沒有看到我們的配套"},{"start":270.256,"end":293.864,"text":"車輛儀式保管場的部分是在各地方警察執法機關這邊是所以22個縣市各執法機關都有配置這一個相關所以不是監理站是警察機關對對對所以你剛剛也講錯了嘛好那沒關係那現在移入到警察機關之後譬如說三個月內確認那我們要沒入車輛就要做處理嘛因為不可能無限保管嘛"},{"start":294.284,"end":309.605,"text":"我現在講的就是說末路車輛完之後案子裁決完 定案完之後車輛就處理了那車輛處理的部分的話各地方政府都有訂這個車輛這個就是保管處理的辦法包括拍賣包括誰執行這個消費就是"},{"start":312.409,"end":327.47,"text":"各處罰機關來處理各處罰機關所以又是警政單位舉法是在警察機關但是裁決確定完之後處罰機關在六都就是這一個交通局地方政府那在16個縣市的部分是在我們各監理機關"},{"start":328.291,"end":332.674,"text":"市長本席為什麼會提這個問題其實就是大家已經看到我們都支持末路車輛這是本席先提出來的版本嘛但本席現在要講的是說我們後續的執行"},{"start":348.323,"end":369.61,"text":"如果我們怕是說我們修法完之後沒路車輛結果到最後變成是車輛大塞車啊沒有地方去保管以及趕快要去做處理來 沒路車輛或車輛保管一致保管的這個在處罰條例裡頭都已有明文規定而且實施運作很久而且都有訂定相關的一個辦法在做處理所以這"},{"start":370.65,"end":388.033,"text":"大部分是警察警官所以我覺得是不是可以請警務署來說明一下這個程序所以不會造成剛才委員講的漏路了以後車輛是沒辦法處理的你現在就是本席我們就提出來的修法我現在就要問整個流程你現在很顯然就是沒有算出那個數目嘛"},{"start":388.994,"end":411.35,"text":"如果說我們一個晚上有一百五十幾台那你要那個時間好啦 市長你這樣子 你給本席一個完整的說明以及就是說你們現在整個配套那本席有提到剛剛我開宗明義提案說明的時候就有講到本席的版本跟行政院現在最大的不同就行政院是說一律沒路但是如果說他是偷來的車咧那要不要沒路"},{"start":413.292,"end":440.667,"text":"這個是我剛才有跟這個委員特別提到的就是說行政法法大概22條有特別提到非出於故意過失不罰所以說原則上還要看這樣的一個行為是不是所以我們不要讓這個毒蟲他去鑽這個漏洞嘛如果說他敢已經他是吸毒了然後他故意去偷別人的車來開甚至像剛剛本席講到的彰化這個連結車他有可能那個連結車不是他自己的車他是公司車"},{"start":441.607,"end":460.342,"text":"那這樣會變成是說那台車也不會沒路是不是那要善盡保管責任原則上他的這個公司車的話這個被沒路的機會很大公司車也可以被沒路當然啦如果說公司這個負責人已經有告知他了但是他還是去獨駕"},{"start":461.483,"end":478.24,"text":"那要看他怎麼告示他不是簡單的告示兩個字就因為他還是牽涉到公私治理啊但是本席沒有錯當然公私治理一定很重要就是說本來相關的人也有相關的責任但本席現在講的是說這個獨駕的部分這個駕駛者他也要加重處罰"},{"start":479.341,"end":508.12,"text":"本席也認為是說他就如果說他有偷來的車他有或者是說去租車甚至現在相關的租車的平台很方便假設他是用這個共享機車甚至騎U-bike那這樣子會不會認定那不管怎麼樣本席認為是說只要你吸毒之後還去上路這其實就已經是不特定的殺人的一個故意也因此本席要講是說那這樣的話他應該要加重他的刑責"},{"start":509.421,"end":528.667,"text":"加重行程的部分我跟委員報告要問一下法務部或其他單位因為處罰條例沒有在處理新則的那加重罰緩呢加重罰緩的話原則上我們就尊重整個委員會大家討論的一個結果所以算是可以正面不會反對就對了對於加重罰緩我們不會反對"},{"start":531.452,"end":556.253,"text":"來那最後本席還在提到一個就是說這也是參考韓國現在的一個方向就是說韓國他們也面臨獨駕也是相對嚴峻也因此他們也有提出來就是連坐的一個部分但現在我們大家考慮到比較多的一個層面是說如果說乘客同車的一個乘客他要去判定說是不是明知駕駛他有吸毒來開車這可能就是一個未來在"},{"start":557.274,"end":580.765,"text":"認定上面如果總不能讓這個駕駛這個乘客他就一句說他不知道然後就好像脫身脫罪所以在這個部分我們有沒有相關的配套我想這部分這個在這個法定在討論的時候過程中我們大概就有跟因為這牽涉到實務執行警察在取締的問題所以我們大概有請教過警政署那如果有必要的話等一下也可以請警政署來做說明"},{"start":581.525,"end":604.818,"text":"那原則上呢 剛才委員特別提到的各種情勢呢還是要依個案的事實來判定喔他是不是是否已經知道 明知或可得知駕駛人施用毒品以及是否未盡勸阻的義務等等來判斷他是不是可以免責啊所以原則上不會是說他一句說他不知道就可以脫罪 是 對不對因為那些事務上 我們也是會在後續施行的時候來跟大家明確的宣導"},{"start":609.361,"end":629.092,"text":"好 因為食物上其實這就是次長你有抓到重點食物上很有可能現在依托米子因為電子煙相對方便也因此很多的獨駕其實他的樣態是邊開邊吸那如果說邊開邊吸的話同車的駕駛不可能不知道這第一個第二個為什麼會講是說同車的駕駛會讓這一個人開車說不定同車的駕駛吸更多"},{"start":635.014,"end":649.63,"text":"可能他譬如說兩三個人這跟酒駕其實是類似的酒駕一台車譬如兩三個人的時候為什麼會指定那一個駕駛開車可能是因為四個人三個人都有喝酒那只是那一個人喝的相對少然後他來開車那一樣的道理如果說獨駕的話"},{"start":650.891,"end":678.112,"text":"會不會同車都有吸食的一個狀況那當然同車的駕駛該檢驗譬如說攔檢到車輛駕駕駛假設有毒價反應的話同車駕駛是不是應該也要一併來做一個毒價的毒品的檢視這一點在實務上來講是不是應該要一起支持這可能就要由現場執行的員警來判斷警政署能幫我回答一下今天交通警政署來的單位是交通組的副組長"},{"start":684.839,"end":706.74,"text":"官員報告一下那個車子攔查下來的時候我們會看看車駕駛人還有其他車主如果現場有毒品的話我們可能會都會一併帶回去這個車內有毒品就是所有同車都一起我們都會帶回去N一下是啦那但是我現在講說比較現場實務的狀況是如果說第一你還沒有辦法攔"},{"start":708.481,"end":721.968,"text":"盤查車裡面的狀況嘛那你第一步一定是先檢視這個駕駛人的反應嘛那駕駛人反應之後就先讓他做試紙的一個測試那測試完假設是陽性反應 有吸毒那同車乘客是不是一併也一起測試"},{"start":725.254,"end":739.465,"text":"觀察看看其他車主他有沒有如果說有其他不是觀察比較有可能的因為大概同車的情況來講都是吸毒人口會積極的比較多一點是嘛這就食物上的狀況嘛食物上的大概是這個情形跟"},{"start":740.245,"end":755.279,"text":"那我們看看這個的通測有沒有其他比如說小朋友這些我們都不困住我們只會注重有沒有類似吸毒人口聚集在一起的這種關聯性比較大的那就做一個一個觀察如果需要的話我們就待會去做一個後續的一個盤查"},{"start":755.759,"end":770.091,"text":"好所以這就是警務警政署的第一線的一個經驗那我想交通部我們這邊也了解就是說在修法的過程裡面我們就共同就是獨駕連坐其實它的意義在於是互相提醒跟互相要求就不要開車"},{"start":771.232,"end":792.358,"text":"你吸毒已經是違法了那你就不要開車上路那如果說你還敢跟已經吸毒的人駕駛一起開車上路抱歉你也有責任你也有不管是刑責不管是罰款都要一併連帶責任要求他們就是這樣子互相警惕不要開車這跟嚇阻酒駕是一樣的概念但毒駕更為嚴峻是因為你可能邊開邊吸會造成"},{"start":794.398,"end":822.259,"text":"更多人不確定的因素的一個傷亡好不好那我們逐條討論的時候也請次長也請相關同仁針對本席的版本能夠加強的態度我們加強還有更重要當我們修法三讀通過之後報導讓大家知道現在獨駕就是一摸路車一樣你開超跑我摸超跑你騎摩托車我摸摩托車你開什麼車我就摸什麼車讓他知道不要上路最重要好不好謝謝"},{"start":824.462,"end":824.484,"text":"好"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}