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各位委員先進 大家好首先請就立法院教文會對本院各項業務以預算支持以指證表達誠摯謝意今年適逢本院百年宴慶特別策劃多項暨國際能見度之展覽與文化推廣活動"},{"start":1574.321,"end":1591.786,"text":"結合數位科技快參與展現故宮作為國家文化品牌的多元能量與國際視野提供更具包容性與前瞻性的博物館體驗以下僅就114年度業務成果概要及115年度工作重點檢要報告"},{"start":1594.287,"end":1617.677,"text":"114 業務成果概要1 故宮100 Plus 即往開來為慶祝百年宴慶 本宴出版 宴時研究 文物圖錄 學術專科等宴慶專書策辦大美不言 江戶福氏之美 美國大都會名作展必送 夾子萬年 千年神藝 西岸亞籍傳奇抵岸東南亞文化交會等多元展覽"},{"start":1619.398,"end":1633.689,"text":"4月份參與大阪市博台灣館AI藝廊城市發展新媒體展9月副捷克國家博物館展出故宮文物百選11月副華國凱布朗利博物館集辦龍展促進國際文化交流合作"},{"start":1635.27,"end":1656.581,"text":"那另外的話 推出宴慶專屬文創產品超過700餘件設置台灣金銜MIT商品展設專區 透過合作開發品牌授權機制 廣邀各界優質業者參與此外 積極參與國內外重要的大型展會推銷故宮品牌 專業服務 誇義整合"},{"start":1659.335,"end":1673.69,"text":"召開策展執行會議 邀請國內外跨域學者專家策展 離定策展方向及評估展覽效益策辦會心協議 身體展演 賞識有理工業想起其人意識等展覽強化服務效能"},{"start":1674.931,"end":1689.945,"text":"生化跨域教推 辦理分齡分眾推廣活動與藝文展演 辦理校園大使計畫 大專生工部門見習計畫 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大都會名作展故宮百選龍展等促進文化合作資源共享"},{"start":1829.383,"end":1832.614,"text":"另外持續優化公共服務空間與文物保存環境"},{"start":1834.642,"end":1861.43,"text":"北部延期今年完成行政大樓及圖書館興建工程然後第二展覽館整建對外開放研究大樓目前分階段整建優化要建置文物庫房另外規劃四連棟假種試射耐震補強發展成為兒童探索學習藝術交易空間南部延期今年就完成大門動線及景觀設施優化工程啟動南側光電停車場"},{"start":1862.97,"end":1884.679,"text":"那二館的國包館主體的剛構已經完成調裝並於5月底辦理上樑的典禮另外在永續文物保存方面於庫房導入智慧庫房管理持續辦理持續庫房文物整治及包裝作業導入智慧監控系統優化典藏文物與管理職能"},{"start":1887.935,"end":1904.495,"text":"115年度工作重點以專業服務快整合 深化專業研究與策展115年一季推出會心不言 陶樣 龍杖經 百戲 新藏文物展及測出書法展等"},{"start":1905.416,"end":1922.111,"text":"另外配合節慶、展覽、針對不同年齡、策辦多元教育推廣活動、豐富博館體驗、透過青年教育推廣及行銷專案、兒童青少年志工培訓與管校合作等計畫,連結故宮與大眾,促進社會對話交流。"},{"start":1923.312,"end":1945.135,"text":"開放分享多元行銷持續推廣數位典藏文物資料開放優化主題網站及線上資源應用新媒體載具及平台展示博物館數位應用建構智慧博物館與AI科技的藝術展廳那另外的話結合數位科技在地文化"},{"start":1947.457,"end":1973.113,"text":"我們今年會以南洋博物館策判淨水國寶故宮南洋特展及世衛展另外參與2026台灣燈會在嘉義及國內外重要大型展會規劃北部延期暑假親子共學遊程南部延期親子夏日藝術夜及故宮亞洲藝術節等多元文化體驗串聯創意行銷促進資源共享與社群參與"},{"start":1976.393,"end":1997.432,"text":"3.友善共融文化平衡实际召开故宫博物院身心障碍文化参与执行会提升服务品质会议提供软硬体设施强化第一线服务量能优化博物馆的一个体验营造友善参观环境对身心障碍者低度参与者热灵族群规划"},{"start":1999.033,"end":2014.081,"text":"聽農共賞等活動永續發展接軌國際方面持續以辦理國境化交流活動強化與各縣市地方管所資源共享持續辦理故宮國寶出遊區讓典堂文物走出故宮"},{"start":2016.267,"end":2035.869,"text":"另外就是推動故宮數位行為展應用科技突破地理限制讓更多國際觀眾親近台灣的文化資源也展示台灣文化與科技融合的前瞻思維另外透過新故宮計畫持續推動北部縣區南部縣區二館新建工程建置智慧化庫房與管理監控系統"},{"start":2037.731,"end":2061.693,"text":"針對近期國外博物館文物失竊事件本院已召開安全防護檢討會議並規劃在11月17號模擬演習希望積極提升管束安全及國內文化交流依佔防護機制及持續提升文物安全管理向深化博物館的永續發展基礎敬請各位委員指教並繼續給予支持"},{"start":2066.594,"end":2085.636,"text":"謝謝蕭院長口頭報告現在進行尋答每位出席委員執行時間6分鐘必要時延長2分鐘練習委員執行時間4分鐘登記發言發言登記截止時間為上午10時30分委員如果臨時提案請於上午10時30分前提出"},{"start":2086.456,"end":2104.986,"text":"並在本會委員吳佩奕質詢結束後進行臨時提案處理處理提案時若提案委員及連署委員均不在場原例不予處理首先請發言登記第一位萬美玲委員質詢謝謝召委那我們有請院長請蕭院長"},{"start":2111.902,"end":2137.559,"text":"好 院長早我們看到10月19號震驚全世界法國的羅浮宮竟然發生了價值8800萬歐元的八件19世紀法國皇室珠寶遭竊我相信這個消息一出來的時候院長一定也有高度的關切當然我也看到在媒體上也有提到說針對羅浮宮的一個竊案我們故宮也趕快來看一下我們自己的防護要怎麼升級 怎麼加強"},{"start":2138.699,"end":2159.852,"text":"除了我們提升巡邏的頻率夜間的巡查還有把很多這些高文物價值的展示櫃防暴系統等等我們整個全面看看有沒有需要補強或者是提升的我覺得我們馬上來做這些我覺得很棒但是事實上我想故宮自從來台灣這75年來我們是零失竊沒有錯嗎我們的紀錄是零失竊"},{"start":2166.26,"end":2184.73,"text":"但你剛剛猶豫一下本席嚇一跳耶對啊我們大家每個人的心都提上來了我想是數據錯誤嗎是曾經有失線是不是不是數據錯誤而是說民俗上都有一個講法說配配配有些話不能講好 那來來來我們敲一下"},{"start":2185.47,"end":2211.918,"text":"好但是我跟你講我們尊重一下敲三下但是重點還是我們怎麼去防護怎麼去保護這個是比較重要的我們到目前為止零失竊的一個狀況我想除了我們所有故宮的這些人員大家很努力之外也要歸功於我們北院的地勢還有後山山洞庫房嚴密的監控系統等等有這些優勢"},{"start":2212.998,"end":2221.466,"text":"可是本席非常擔心喔南苑沒有這個先天地勢上的一個優勢那能不能院長來說一下那對於南苑的部分我們怎麼加強"},{"start":2222.948,"end":2250.06,"text":"跟委員報告就是南延的話是一個新的一個延區規劃那當然它是一個開放式的延區可是以現在來講的話因為新的建築規劃的話它整個維安保全的話它是導入一個比較新型的一個機制譬如說我們有三層的防護系統三層的話第一個是外圍的延區入延的話它有一個基本的管制"},{"start":2251.481,"end":2264.856,"text":"我們的人員的話會有定時跟不定時的行檢第二層的話就是建物本身建物本身是一個新的建築所以它的監視安全系統是沒有問題的第三的話是展廳跟庫房"},{"start":2265.799,"end":2291.187,"text":"那三層的防衛基本上來講的話我們都是在規劃的時候就已經都到位了所以基本上是沒有太大的問題這個我想有機會我們委員會可以再去看一看那當然就是這邊提醒那另外我想這一次我們有131件的這個國寶文物在捷克博物館展出當然我們要去做這個展其實這過程當中大家也都很努力很辛苦才能夠成就這一個展但是呢"},{"start":2291.927,"end":2319.05,"text":"在9月25號的時候就傳出來說陸委會接到了這個電子恐嚇的郵件那揚言說如果我們故宮文物要繼續在捷克展出的話那可能會對這個捷克博物館不管是縱火啦開槍啦這個竊盜啦等等其實這個恐嚇的這個味道非常的重那當然我想這個外交部文化部也都有收到故宮也知道嘛那我們接到這樣的一個恐嚇郵件之後"},{"start":2319.71,"end":2324.484,"text":"我們故宮做了哪些事情那到目前為止因為也又再過了一個多月的時間那狀況是怎麼樣"},{"start":2327.305,"end":2356.457,"text":"根據委員報告第一個我首先當然就是呼籲就是對於國際文化交流這種不友善的一個威脅行動的話就是說我們可以譴責那這個事情發生之後我們馬上跟捷克透過電話跟視訊聯絡那我們也共同開過視訊會議然後他們那邊一再保證就是所有的文物借產程序跟維安程序的話"},{"start":2357.397,"end":2374.442,"text":"都是很正常的運作另外的話我們雙方也都通知警方跟檢調單位進行檢調那包括捷克的外交部長的話他們也發表聲明去譴責這樣的一個行為所以目前兩邊的聯繫"},{"start":2376.323,"end":2396.003,"text":"因为为了我们这个故宫文物要去其实本席其实在去年的时候我们有去看那个场地那不管是怎么样去保护我们的文物然后这个展出或者是媒体宣传等等其实我们那时候花了很多的时间在那边双方做沟通但发生了这样的事情我想我们不能有一颗松懈虽然我们谴责过了"},{"start":2396.283,"end":2416.065,"text":"那在當時我們也警惕了但是我希望就是在我們文物沒有回台之前我們時時刻刻我們跟捷克那個地方都要保持一個很密切的聯繫隨時注意狀況我想這個這個本席來做一個提醒好不好對 這個我們一直在強化那另外的話就是捷克方面的話他們是採取議業入場就是為了強化他的"},{"start":2417.006,"end":2443.321,"text":"這個我知道院長謝謝接下來我想要再請教一下就是關於我們談過很多次的故宮觀光的人次我們來看一下我們有一個表我們的簡報這個是在1到8月今年全台灣博物館的參訪人次的排名我們看到第一名嘉義市立美術館說實在話本席還沒有去過看到它排名第一參訪人次高達353萬次"},{"start":2445.242,"end":2456.03,"text":"我其实是想要找一个人去看一看这个院长去过了吗经常去经常去好那经常去这个第一名到第八名您都去过了吗"},{"start":2457.624,"end":2479.182,"text":"每一个都去过都去过了那我们为什么落在第九名啊我们北部院区啊故宫博物院的观众人数的统计的话有几个基础第一个是卖票那第二个的话就是有公文有文件然后都是有统计第三个的话就是进入闸门所以我们的统计基础的话是非常严谨的"},{"start":2479.482,"end":2507.295,"text":"非常嚴謹你的落差也很大好不好你現在參訪人次就145萬喔所以我覺得要看一下那第二個呢我們就以地緣來講在嘉義地區你看一看我們的南院啊還是排名在第八這個參訪人次當然我們不能跟第一的來比啊但是我們也是一樣跟嘉義市立美術館比喔就遠遠落後非常多啊同樣地緣就是在嘉義啊所以我想院長有去過那我覺得我們要去看一看我們怎麼樣去提升我們每一年每一年都在這裡講喔"},{"start":2508.195,"end":2532.825,"text":"要把這個南北院參訪人次把它提高那本席是跟您建議尤其是如果不管南院北院尤其假設這個嘉義美術館這麼多人去那本席當然也要找個時間去看一看那是不是南院也有考慮說我們來跟嘉義市政府來合作那甚至於可以跟這些美術館嘉義市裡美術館來做串聯或許可以打造一個文化走廊來提升南院的參觀人次院長覺得可行嗎"},{"start":2533.645,"end":2556.536,"text":"可行 沒有問題但是我還是要跟委員澄清一下就是說每一個館對於它的觀眾的統計方式有不同的基礎所以這個部分的話就是如果依照嘉義市立美術館353萬的話它就是每一課裡面因為它很小裡面塞滿的人走都走不動所以委員可以去看一下"},{"start":2557.516,"end":2565.504,"text":"是不是真實的情況這個樣子但是我對於各個管社他們對觀眾統計的一個方式我都可以尊重"},{"start":2567.028,"end":2590.947,"text":"我覺得這個數字我們大家拿來看但是最重要的是實際參訪人次我們北越南越把它衝高最後幾秒鐘我來提醒您一下我們新故宮計畫裡面其實爭議頗大的玻璃入口亭這件事情因為不管我們違反文資法或者是相關的這些委員有意見因為故宮也有提出來說要把新的計畫提出來以後再來討論"},{"start":2591.687,"end":2618.747,"text":"但现在本席不管是在计划上没有看到在115年我们的总预算当中也没有看到这个入孔亭的工程跟计划相关那是不是我们已经取消了还是现在是什么状况能不能减速一下经过台北市文资的两次审议都没有通过但是它都有一个附带条件就是请修正以后再送所以目前的话我们重新跟那个团队在检讨之中所以还在修正中那这个计划还在吗"},{"start":2620.194,"end":2638.046,"text":"計劃當然還在好 我想院長其實要去參考一下台北市政府的意見還有我們這些專家學者的意見是不是宜這樣做那今年因為預算也沒有把它編進去計劃也還沒有出來我希望再去審慎思考沒有必要做的事情就不要做了好嗎是 我們會審慎檢討好 謝謝謝謝萬美玲委員質詢院長請回座接下來請柯志恩委員質詢"},{"start":2651.974,"end":2654.675,"text":"好 謝謝召委 我們是不是請院長請蕭院長柯委員早院長早請問院長北越你知道距離我們最近的警察局距離大概多少他的派出所的話距離我們大概200公尺吧200公尺 下山以後對200公尺 萬一故宮發生任何事故的話警察多久時間可以到達"},{"start":2676.708,"end":2690.803,"text":"我們有所謂的六分鐘六分鐘嗎 有做過這個演練嗎副院長說五分鐘五分鐘有做過這個演練嗎我們有做過演練有做過演練啦 什麼時候一年多少次"},{"start":2692.25,"end":2721.073,"text":"我可以请副院长回答所以是600公尺一年做多少次为什么要特别提出这个问题因为很严重罗浮宫发生非常大的一个重大的窃案然后故宫就说你们要深次的警惕跟反省引以为戒所以说我们当然要来了解一下这个故宫有没有这个安全的维护包括防盗防窃冲突事件那罗浮宫呢距离警察局大概是800公尺结果7分钟之内被偷了8件的宝物所以院长"},{"start":2722.014,"end":2746.046,"text":"你們是600公尺5分鐘就會到200公尺5分鐘會到然後呢剩下的然後每年多少的演練這點我們要很重要啊OK故宮是國內唯一的那個重大基礎設施所以基本上來講的話我們在國土安全署的一個監護之下的話每年都會進行相關跟我們的警察局包括北院跟南院都有一年演練幾次我要這個資料"},{"start":2750.847,"end":2765.973,"text":"以竊盜案來講我們去年做過一次那今天我們還會再做一次那13號還會再做一次所以一年超過三四四次南院北院都是一樣跟警察局共同來合作把一些的資料請給本縣"},{"start":2766.993,"end":2782.884,"text":"因為這非常非常的一個重要為什麼我要這邊提你看7分鐘內偷走8件寶物然後因為故宮也不是沒有讓的一個記錄去年5月的時候就短暫的停電1分鐘之內當然就立即的供電但是我們要回顧到2022年的時候在南院曾經長達10個小時"},{"start":2785.646,"end":2801.074,"text":"那我们当然知道这是因为第六宫殿回路跳脱但是对不起这整个的过程当中呢共花了十个小时不管是离亲或是恢复闭馆等等之类的我觉得对于一个国家级的博物馆来说院长你满意这样的一个效率吗呃"},{"start":2804.251,"end":2822.837,"text":"這個部分當然是我們要檢討因為應該我還沒有到任不過這個是迴路跳脫的話基本上來講的話是燈光照明會有影響他的整個安全不管是如何院長這個就是完全事情發生之後你的整個的緊急的處置的一個措施"},{"start":2823.337,"end":2845.229,"text":"您很幸幸的他還不是在展館所以沒有任何的損失萬一在一個展館10個小時我覺得這個部分就是姿勢體大所以我們要問的就是萬一展場停電的話你們的SOP會是什麼基本上來講的話故宮現在的話都有不斷電的系統南北延區的話可以維持多久"},{"start":2848.687,"end":2857.518,"text":"這個應該立即回應還有最重要的如果報案的話警力到底在北院多久時間到南院多久時間到這是我們最需要知道剛剛北院的話就是講說6分鐘南院呢"},{"start":2861.271,"end":2883.313,"text":"五分鐘 南院五分鐘好 那這個部分對我來講都是六分鐘對呀 都是六分鐘那很顯然這六分鐘裡面他們是羅浮宮是七分鐘之內偷了八件寶物那南北院六分鐘之內應該不至於有這麼嚴重好 我們記住了 這很重要演練非常的重要這是我本席第一題一定要特別提醒的第二個我想還是要來問一下有關玻璃門的問題"},{"start":2884.594,"end":2905.249,"text":"因为2022年已经被否决了2025年又再一次的被否决了那之前你们已经告诉我非常的尊重你们也没有那么一定要坚持但是呢现在很显然你们说内部讨论之后你们要再提计划所以院长你们的团队就是坚持不会放弃这个玻璃门的这样一个设计就对了"},{"start":2905.709,"end":2924.583,"text":"玻璃亭的這樣的設計就對了根文報告就是基本上來講的話採購是一個程序我們要讓採購的程序去完成另外一個當初原始設計的一個想法就是說在圖面上的最左邊的有一個小門紅色的小門那是故宮最原始的入口"},{"start":2925.143,"end":2940.429,"text":"那故宮最原始的入口的話原來的話這樣層層疊疊爬上去以後它經過一個拱門我瞭解我這樣只是說既然已經有這麼多這個台北的文化文資會都已經透過不同的考量而且還提出了安全結構的問題結果你們是不是因為合約被綁死了"},{"start":2945.131,"end":2972.722,"text":"所以说呢你说你不坚持可是现在在两次被否决之后你们又要再提计划所以我们只是很好奇到你的坚持的点到底在什么地方而且我必须要提出来你看交通很多人就特别提到的安全就会被质疑所以他会有这样的一个建议有很多学者专家有很多不同的批判我们后面下面看起来是一个示意图他几乎把故宫的本体说实在的已经遮住了一大半但是呢最重要的部分我们来看下面啊"},{"start":2974.102,"end":2999.79,"text":"这个交通部的观光署还把你们故宫列为观光票选人气的景点而且是一个非常大的这样一个故宫原始的一个模样那你现在把门面改掉要设立一个玻璃亭这就是为什么到目前为止不管安全或是大家认为的外观里面我觉得故宫到底在坚持什么难道是跟团队来说的话故宫没有任何的主导权吗一定要跟着你们当初所称的合约或者是所谓的设计团队里面来走吗"},{"start":3000.865,"end":3020.321,"text":"我想我跟委員報告過就是李晏是一個誠信因為他當初設計這個入口在世家廠商裡面得標得標的就是因為他有所以你們是因為被合約的關係嘛因為這個關係而得標所以你們現在必須要堅持這個部分然後被這麼多次的否決難道故宮沒有任何的主導權嗎"},{"start":3021.522,"end":3040.935,"text":"我想如果下一次的文資審議的話還要再下一次啊沒有共識的話對 沒有共識的話所以你要等到第三次就對了對 我們會改變計畫所以你就把整個工程耗在那邊等到第三次文資審議後你們再做最後的決定給最後的一搏就對了這是目前你的回應嗎也不是這個樣子因為工程本來就有一個進度好"},{"start":3041.215,"end":3055.772,"text":"我們就來看看吧不過院長我覺得故宮還是要拿出自己的一個想法既然這麼多的也是文資專家提出這樣的意見你好好還是來參看一下不過目前為止是得到要叫第三次我只是不曉得台北市我們絕對會尊重文資委員"},{"start":3056.252,"end":3085.42,"text":"我不想提文字委員什麼時候再來開會了然後接下來我們還是要問一下就是有關於人數的問題剛剛萬委員也特別提到了你顯然對於嘉義的這個人次的計算是有一些的想法的你很客氣人都尊重了好啦就像我們造勢人員我們明明算是這樣他們要喊幾萬我們也都尊重了這是我們官方的說法我也尊重了但是呢還是問一句話90週年你的目標是529那你去年說你100週年要350萬人次你目前有沒有辦法達標還差多少"},{"start":3085.68,"end":3097.53,"text":"公文報告我們南苑前天的話破100萬恭喜我覺得很好然後那個北苑的話昨天的話200萬所以現在300萬已經達標了好333 0000350萬耶350萬同仁的評估你現在只剩下你剩下距離年底還剩下一個多月好加油"},{"start":3104.736,"end":3125.427,"text":"跟委員報告就是說實際上有一些數據是沒有加進來譬如說我們推廣教育的活動好啦沒關係就像我說的數字我們都尊重好不好一萬都可以喊成五萬了你這個只差五十萬你要喊五百我都可以好不好只是要給我們一個很好的部分可以吧給我們一個數據你不管怎麼加就要加的合理就好確切實實的統計"},{"start":3126.408,"end":3145.848,"text":"好啦 事實統計 我知道故宮比較嚴謹啦所以剛剛萬委員問你的時候 你語帶保留啦你就是尊重 可是我看你的臉色我就知道故宮不可能只有到這個程度啦不可能 大方的講呢 我們故宮開大門走大路我們就是有辦法堂堂多家門面啦因為如果說以故宮目前兩百萬每次展覽展場的人潮的話基本上來講的話"},{"start":3146.749,"end":3170.798,"text":"大方的講嘛 你幹嘛每次都尊重到時候你新聞出來說故宮比不上嘉義 你看你就我告訴你最後一個我們來看看你們的前院長那個主席再給我一分鐘因為我覺得這必須要澄清前院長提出他們自己的論點自我英雄他們認為他把自己定位為改革型的CEO然後呢認為故宮是保守守舊的然後呢應該認為說要有KPI有SOP然後呢他認為應該在定位"},{"start":3172.839,"end":3195.092,"text":"院長別人講就算了你的前院長這樣來說我們的故宮然後我們看下面講的不專業抗拒改革心理因素不想離開看不起男院喜歡策展喜歡被舞台包圍故宮人員工作量很少然後呢幾乎每個人都準時下班前院長這樣說明你現在院長的故宮你的想法是什麼"},{"start":3196.763,"end":3218.092,"text":"我也只能講說你也只能尊重嗎我可以尊重但是同仁自己心裡有自己心裡的想法院長你不能夠只是尊重我當然再三強調就故宮除了文入重要之外所有的故宮人都是故宮的老人但是院長如果吳密茶院長他在當院長陣內他沒有辦法改革"},{"start":3218.732,"end":3244.193,"text":"然后呢离开之后来批评那我就要想说他在当位的时候呢难道后面有更高的势力让他在当院长的时候没有办法改革吗轮到他离开故宫的时候就必须要来大肆批评他当年在位的时候没有办法做到的事情吗有这种事吗你也还是尊重吗你要为故宫说一句话吗故宫难道没有SOP制度吗故宫难道看不起南院吗故宫都是准时诶 准时上下班有什么错然后呢有什么好策展喜欢舞台"},{"start":3245.274,"end":3258.646,"text":"故宮展的是文物有什麼好策展的這些的問題你難道能夠只是尊重嗎只是他那時候你是他的副院長嗎院長不是這樣啦我不是他的副院長好啦那你覺得對前院長的部分你還是只是尊重嗎"},{"start":3261.479,"end":3275.738,"text":"個人的看法的話我還是可以尊重但是我覺得替故宮的同仁打抱不平好 我也覺得因為我本來要稱讚你的不是只有尊重而已因為你特別講那一句話不是只有文物而是故宮人"},{"start":3276.238,"end":3302.812,"text":"常年的故宫人累积的这个故宫人还有包括故宫资深的志工都是故宫真的是完全不能磨灭的一个非常棒的一个产物非常棒的一个文化上面的一个贡献我觉得院长你要给故宫人特别是老工人这样的一个尊重故宫绝对不允许前院长这样的部分当他们发现被这样子的一个有任何不适当的一个谬论我在谬论的时候"},{"start":3303.712,"end":3321.889,"text":"院長 你不能只有尊重你要挺身為故宮人講話特別是對於這些真的已經奉獻很多的人各位 各位報告我在百年宴慶的聯合開幕的字詞裡面有一半是對故宮人的肯定所以這已經表達故宮現在對故宮人的一個態度好"},{"start":3322.669,"end":3338.933,"text":"這點我給你肯定啊所以說我說這次我們有志一同沒有問題但是對於曾經當過你這個位置的人用這個方法來批評檢討故宮我個人認為你還是有必要以院長之姿真的為故宮再來講一句話好不好大家共同勉勵是謝謝柯之恩委員質詢院長請回座接下來請林沛翔委員質詢"},{"start":3355.578,"end":3382.192,"text":"好 謝謝主席有請蕭院長請蕭院長林委員早蕭院長辛苦了是我想大家對於最近這個有關博物館方面最大的新聞全世界最大的新聞就是在上個月10月19號的時候現在不是只有我關心我想剛剛柯市任委員甚至萬美林委員都很關心如果巴黎羅浮宮在短短8分鐘之內就被盜走價值高達31億新台幣的皇室珠寶"},{"start":3385.935,"end":3402.808,"text":"再加上說這幾年來好像我記得沒錯的話大英博物館也爆發出內部資深策展人長達十年的系統性的竊盜醜聞這樣的事情發生當然我們一向都以為說這種事情只會在好萊塢的電影上發生"},{"start":3403.709,"end":3422.789,"text":"但是既然發生了我們就要去了解說這個事情不能用事後補償或者受法律保障來說辭來去跟我們全國民來說明這樣是無法交代的那我們也要基於一個態度就是見不嫌失智型我們必須用全球頂級博物館剛剛發生過最壞的狀況來嚴格檢視故宮"},{"start":3426.192,"end":3453.397,"text":"那故宮最近這幾年積極推動國寶出境甚至將本院的證管之寶像是翠玉白菜送往捷克展出就算說我們有簽署所謂司法免扣押的條款我們有投保巨額保險之類的但是如果連羅浮宮這全世界當然故宮跟羅浮宮是一樣等級的博物館但是連羅浮宮都會有這個在嚴密的保安都會被專業的竊責一個攻破"},{"start":3453.797,"end":3468.474,"text":"那我们这个国宝呢它的历史跟文化价值是独一无二的这是无法用金钱赔偿的所以我想请问院长您要怎么样担保当翠玉白菜或肉形石在海外的时候不会变成下一个这种惊天泄暗的主角呢"},{"start":3470.745,"end":3486.819,"text":"跟委員報告就是國際文化交流有它的一定的一個慣例當然就是說故宮的文物出去那國外的文物其實也會到故宮來那整個國際屆展上面的一個標準作業程序"},{"start":3487.58,"end":3515.811,"text":"包括司法免扣押 包括整個路程的介護 然後包括管社展出空間的安全管理我想這是一個行之有年的一個制度我們當然因為這樣的事情發生的話 我們會加強故宮自警的檢討然後包括管社安全漏洞的一個檢視那另外的話 我們在11月17號也會進行南北縣的一個安全維護的演練那"},{"start":3517.455,"end":3540.115,"text":"故宮因為是國內的唯一的一個國土安全的一個單位所以這個部分如果安全防護的話我們是在國土安全署他們的一個相關的監督之下我們會做到最安全的防護院長我只是提議就是說因為不管是翠玉白菜 肉方石這些都是中華文化很"},{"start":3540.916,"end":3563.961,"text":"珍貴的文化遺產那能不能有機會就是說我們這種鎮館之寶的核心文物盡量不要以出館為原則呢有沒有這個機會我想跟委員報告一下故宮的話文物有分一些等級譬如說像國寶重要古物的話出國的話當然我們會有一個最嚴謹的那另外現場文物的話基本上來講是不出國"},{"start":3564.861,"end":3584.786,"text":"那以這一次的情況的話當然我們未來對故宮文路出國會有更嚴謹的一個考量跟評估是不是會翠白菜我也講過翠白菜是不是有機會再出國的話我自己也沒有辦法保證所以這個部分的話我想我們會用更嚴謹的態度來評估"},{"start":3586.787,"end":3604.619,"text":"好 那我們先來談另外一個問題就是我們剛剛講到故宮南院嘛那其實我們也我從資料上面看到其實某個程度我會覺得非常的可惜我也不知道應該要是要向誰作出檢討但是很明顯的故宮南院有點空洞化有一個空洞化的狀況"},{"start":3605.459,"end":3624.551,"text":"所謂故宮南院空洞化就是說故宮南院遊客入園但是沒有入館那這是凸顯的說我們南院其實過度依賴所謂水舞 無人機一般這種一次性的活動而非充實展覽的本身我這邊手上拿到的資料是到最新到今年今年8月的統計資料"},{"start":3625.592,"end":3650.381,"text":"在南館總參觀數將近78萬人次中間真正進入展廳的只有不到39萬人次也就是說跟委員講這個數據不對因為事實上到前天是100萬對 那有多少人進入展廳延期的人數通通不記錄所以這個數字的話是有點落差因為延期通通不記錄"},{"start":3651.881,"end":3668.526,"text":"我是認為說如果說我們南苑假設說我們園區的人數不記錄的話那為什麼我們上面查到的資料會是這樣子呢對不算進去我們的那個參觀入館的人數因為我們現在統計的是入館的人數"},{"start":3670.1,"end":3683.808,"text":"那因為南苑的話當初建院的時候南苑的評估的話就一年的話平均大概一估70萬事實上現在平均百萬已經超越當初南苑建制的一個預期標準"},{"start":3685.769,"end":3707.78,"text":"所以說你認為南苑現在是OK的嗎你真的認為南苑現在是做得夠好的確可以跟故宮本身 本館一樣說變成一個國際吸引的點嗎南苑的知名度當然比較低可是南苑現在的展示跟教育推廣能量基本上來講的話一直在提升尤其是譬如說像這一次的江湖不失之美的話"},{"start":3709.381,"end":3727.686,"text":"受到很大的一個讚許當然大美不言也是可是大美不言的話是跟北苑南苑一起合辦的那江湖福祉之美的話我想那個人潮的話大家都可以看得到好 針對其實還有另外一塊就是我們當我們在看到因為本席有在看我們115年的預算書"},{"start":3730.747,"end":3757.37,"text":"當我們看到115年預算書的時候我們這邊看到有很多像是不管是AI智慧整合跨域整合永續發展之類這些很不錯的詞句但是當我們把交叉比對113年的決算書跟114年最新的因應數據的時候其實我會個人其實覺得蠻危險的危險的地方是在於說我們知道說我們所謂的預算是建立於所謂誠信跟效能上面我們要看到故宮提出來預算"},{"start":3758.131,"end":3773.171,"text":"我們希望故宮能夠執行我們期待故宮能夠照著我們提供預算書去針對這每一件事情做出長足的進展但是我們其實某個程度上目前有一個系統性的失靈危機就是管理上面"},{"start":3774.152,"end":3791.898,"text":"這關於上面我們故宮的核心是文物跟數位文物安全跟數位資產但是老實說如果在115年裡面提出一個長達5年經費1.6億的打造AI智慧博物館但是我們這故宮也發現說就是有高階的國寶圖檔外流"},{"start":3793.979,"end":3816.129,"text":"那監察院也提出糾正了那調查結果也證實這不是什麼高明的駭客攻擊是承辦人員不該將高階土檔上傳是對外可提供的伺服劑那最後面故宮對於這件重大文資事故我們最終的懲處是申戒然後這個人離職請問一下如果連最基本的資安紀律都無法落實的話"},{"start":3816.929,"end":3840.168,"text":"立法院應該核准這1.6億讓您去建置一個更龐大的輸入資料庫嗎您提出了什麼具體性的系統性改革保證這些AI ready的資料不會再被不當上傳呢跟委員簡單講就是我們把那個管理者跟使用分離就是說一般來講的話未來的話外界的話是沒有辦法進入我們的資料庫"},{"start":3841.089,"end":3860.207,"text":"那他可以讀取到的只是我們open data就是600萬畫素跟100萬畫素那高階的圖檔的話我們就是把它分流就是那個管理分流我剛講的是說其實是內部人員出這個操作上內部人員我剛講內部人員的話那怎麼樣去避免未來這樣的事情呢"},{"start":3860.567,"end":3880.583,"text":"內部人員的話基本上來講的話他只能在內部工作區工作他不能把資料PO到外部的網站外部網站的話是另外的管理所以把兩邊的管理人分流就是好像出納跟會計一樣會計不能管錢然後出納管錢不管帳就是把它做分流"},{"start":3881.468,"end":3908.403,"text":"老實說我們相信故宮的專業我們也知道故宮很寶貴但是如果像這樣的算低階的牧師這種低階的牧師出來的時候同仁有這樣的叔叔是沒有錯的這的確是事實而且我們也承接了但至於所謂的外流的資料裡面我們兩年的檢視實際上這些高階的土島沒有外流現在在淘寶 過去在淘寶的話都是我們open data的資料"},{"start":3909.143,"end":3922.669,"text":"其實我們已經41萬筆open data了所以外面流通的都是那些資料並沒有高階圖檔好 那我希望現在剛剛院長講的有關出納跟會計這邊這樣的未來的資訊邏輯希望能夠更明確希望像這件事情可以避免再發生是好 謝謝好 謝謝委員謝謝林佩祥委員質詢院長請回座"},{"start":3936.462,"end":3950.416,"text":"接下來請劉書斌召委質詢好有請校院長請校院長劉委員早"},{"start":3955.148,"end":3982.023,"text":"好 院長早那今天我首先要恭喜因為故宮的參與了大阪市博衛臺灣館的參展那使得它臺灣館成為最受歡迎的一個場館之一那我也特別是故宮的參與當中就是包括的是AI藝廊這邊特別講到的是有這個城市畫卷的一個參展那我自己升到"},{"start":3983.584,"end":4007.304,"text":"台灣館的時候就發覺到說關於陳承波的這樣子一系列關於台灣城市的畫展這邊透過AI技術是非常好那當然因為大部分去參與的都是日本人我就想說有沒有機會把大阪市博具AI技術的這個城市畫卷的產品到故宮來展示並設立長色展呢有沒有這樣的一個規劃"},{"start":4008.912,"end":4028.178,"text":"跟委員報告因為當然就是首先講說給那個什麼大阪市府給故宮這個機會那雖然故宮沒有落名可是我們還是很用心不只是用故宮自己的收藏品我們也把台灣前輩畫家的作品一起共同"},{"start":4028.678,"end":4040.892,"text":"用一個生成式的方式然後去把它融合所以這個展覽結束之後的話第一個我們會回到故宮博物院因為未來的話南院會有一個是到南院啊"},{"start":4041.969,"end":4062.359,"text":"是放到南院去嗎我說未來南院的話會有一個長色性的展示館那這個會回到北院另外的話那個也會到新竹美術館現在已經在洽談中就是說我們希望把這樣的一個公園樂的技術對把這樣的一個展示然後可以在台灣做更多的推廣跟行回"},{"start":4062.639,"end":4084.619,"text":"好 謝謝當然我們下面要討論也是關於羅浮宮的事情不過我就簡短在前面的委員的基礎上面去進行包括了是幾分鐘到警察局這些消息都沒有問題但是它因為棄案的發生的原因是在區域裡面唯一監視器的面向西方還包括是高價的這樣子的一個產品高價的一個藏品"},{"start":4086.861,"end":4115.694,"text":"那想要問的是故宮的話如果以五件包括是翠玉白菜 肉形石 毛公鼎西山行旅圖跟這個早春圖五項來說的話大概估計是多少當然你會說是無價但是我們希望說如果當初之前也不知道說包括是這個瑪麗皇后的這個皇后的這個駕駛雙十雄真是多少錢可是這個地方如果初步估價的話大概會覺得是可能上到多少的錢可以估計一下嗎"},{"start":4117.897,"end":4142.644,"text":"呃基本上故宮博物院並沒有進行這樣的一個文物價值的總估價因為因為文物的類向很多那這個價值的話難以研究所以並沒有並沒有做這樣的一個估價但是我想當然不是說你去估計之後就會引來的很多的什麼竊賊啊然後未來去進行但是我想你們本身自己應該有些估價吧因為到時候包括像"},{"start":4143.844,"end":4172.463,"text":"在北京的故宮當中有一些派被投出去但是我希望是這個事情不是要發生但是最好在國內自己本身自己有些估價是一個是應該是合理的這些部分萬一真的發生到一個被偷竊的情形那就是一個大的問題那另外一個問題包括的是有沒有做定期的你們現在都有些監視器的可是現在這個包括故宮羅浮宮也發生說就是他有監視器可是他的方向可能是被人為的就轉向了或什麼之類的這樣子沒有定期的再去做一個安全的檢視"},{"start":4174.204,"end":4192.916,"text":"故宮的監控是24小時的人力在維映所以所有的監視器的話都維持正常的狀態如果說有任何的一個誤動的話我們都會發覺然後另外的話每個月也都會進行那個校正"},{"start":4193.51,"end":4215.477,"text":"好那另外的剛才您也說到包括是有沒有說定期的一個做這個災防演練等等的因為我們看到是我自己本身在東吳大學就看到說它事實上旁邊有一個加油站那當然它因為故宮它是一個坡地但是我覺得這個包括的是有關於這個火災的這種演練等等的是不是有定期在做演練"},{"start":4217.235,"end":4238.824,"text":"故宮定期的話就是轄區的消防隊的話他們會來進行督導演練所以每年的話南北院的話基本上至少都有兩次的演練至少都有兩次好那另外包括的是看到之前的吳密茶的院長他有提到說因為現在進行到的是一個全民的這個任性的接軌那"},{"start":4239.805,"end":4261.286,"text":"關於說他當初有被問到2022年的時候問到說如果發生緊急災變的時候呢有現在可能都有戰爭的這種可能性那當初吳密朝院長他是說呢如果要包括打包疏散這些計畫等等的他要跟國家安全單位去了解那目前有針對這部分您接任之後有沒有更後續的發展"},{"start":4262.266,"end":4284.38,"text":"我跟委員報告就是我們是國家基礎安全設施所以我們對文物的撤離的話有制定了6小時24小時7天14天30天的疏散文物然後列車包裝然後包括所需的動員到哪裡去有沒有一定要把打包離開有這個打算嗎"},{"start":4288.483,"end":4300.432,"text":"原則上是從展場或是南院北院我們視情況故宮從來都沒有把紋路搬離別的地方的想法因為在台灣還找不到比故宮更安全的庫房"},{"start":4301.192,"end":4325.285,"text":"好 我們希望也不要發生這樣有戰爭甚至說如果發生當然不要發生但是有相關的議題的時候要處理掉那另外包括的是這個故宮的這樣的今年是這個故宮百年包括的是人數這一部分應該也是有一些我們剛才看到的是說故宮現在在南院已經達到了那北院的話還差50萬那我們現在希望說大概剩下一個半月能夠達到"},{"start":4326.626,"end":4352.214,"text":"預期未來的部分因為我們故宮曾經在過去的時候達到有八九百萬的人次的這樣的一個參觀人數那未來你們估計明年的話大概多少人會來因為現在變預算了嘛對不對跟委員報告明年的話當然總參觀人數的話我的設定還是350萬因為今年是百年宴慶的人會多一點那明年350萬的話我希望可以維持這樣的一個能量"},{"start":4352.714,"end":4358.38,"text":"那一個故宮基本上來講有什麼亮點嗎有什麼預計有什麼展展演是亮點然後還犧牲到350萬嗎"},{"start":4361.454,"end":4386.129,"text":"百年宴慶就很多亮點不是 明年的明年的對 明年的的話展覽我們都在規劃之中但是跟委員報告一下就是說故宮的參觀人數的話它是跟境外的入境人數會有小漲因為平均的話過去我的統計平均的話大概100個人的話有10個人在到故宮來看起來的話1%不多可是在全世界的博物館的話"},{"start":4387.321,"end":4404.762,"text":"沒有人有這樣的一個情況到法國的人不可能十分之一到了武宮到英國的人不可能十分之一到大英博物館所以這故宮來講的話它在統計上來講的話是一個很突出的一個狀態表示故宮在台灣的話受到人家的喜愛的一個程度"},{"start":4405.287,"end":4425.23,"text":"好那再詢問一個問題因為已經也出現到這次到捷克去做參展去展覽是非常好那請問一下當初在捷克的展覽當中有沒有製成這種在這邊展覽的商品然後在現場販售然後它的銷售成績是如何這部分是我們一個國際行銷非常重要的一個點"},{"start":4427.432,"end":4455.385,"text":"捷克跟農展的話我們並沒有特別做那個授權文物的銷售因為授權文物的銷售的話基本上來講在國外的話是要另外去談一個版權所以並沒有去做這個部分的規劃所以那展期有大概幾個月吧三個月三個月那這版權談起來事實上要耗日礦日廢時還是說它其實效應效應不太好"},{"start":4457.029,"end":4469.184,"text":"一般來講的話如果有特別規劃文創商品的話都是透過一個商業或是代理機制去處理管對管的交流的話一般來講比較少有去做文創商品的開發"},{"start":4471.437,"end":4494.789,"text":"那這樣實在蠻可惜可是應該有很多人很多人詢問說應該要有這樣的一個產品文創產品的在部分的一個購買的機會吧我們更希望說因為這個展覽讓歐洲的民眾可以了解故宮然後到故宮來這邊提貨我想這是一個更好的一個機會好那所以你們都有留下這樣子的一個回來到台灣的這樣子的一個這種旅遊的計畫的這種資訊到對方去是"},{"start":4500.219,"end":4518.724,"text":"好 那個未來的話當然我們會評估如果有機會再到國外去的話是不是事先可以去做規劃文創商品的生產對 這個文創商品事實上是需要的好 我們當然也是希望說透過故宮的一個外交讓我們台灣的這個公眾外交能夠達到更多的來提升我們的外交處境好 謝謝謝謝劉書斌交委質詢 院長請回座接下來請羅廷偉委員質詢"},{"start":4531.564,"end":4532.486,"text":"好 謝謝趙偉 有請院長請蕭院長羅委員長"},{"start":4539.824,"end":4567.853,"text":"好 院長今天看你們的業務報告這裡面有提到有關於辦理校園大使的計劃管校合作還有教育部青年發展署的大專生工部門的見習計劃還有青少年的導覽員計劃等青年的一個行銷活動我有幾個問題想跟你請問一下院長請問學生如果去故宮當志工大多做哪些工作志工的話"},{"start":4570.285,"end":4593.607,"text":"一般来讲的话就做导览学生的志工他基本上来讲的话是一个见习的一个学习的过程我们会把它当作是一个示范的演练可是真正上线的话以学生来讲的话就是大概还没有办法所以基本上就是做导览员吗是那请问一下学生如果去故宫实习"},{"start":4594.608,"end":4613.747,"text":"又做哪些工作實習根據不同的工作單位譬如說如果他是修護的實習的話他在就修護室如果是他策展的話跟著策展的同仁教推的話跟著教推的同仁他要根據他們申請實習的項目去分配單位"},{"start":4614.588,"end":4638.176,"text":"好那本期想再談一個看似是小事情喔但是卻有長遠的一個大問題就是故宮的學生實習的制度故宮到底是找實習生還是找志工要先想清楚這個問題我想請問一下喔院長你知道依據故宮訂定的學生實習業務管理要點"},{"start":4639.639,"end":4666.92,"text":"院方明文規定以學習為目的不提供薪資及其他的津貼報酬僅在專案申請的情況之下才能夠合計相關的外縣市的交通住宿費也就是說多數的實習生在故宮全程實習一個月甚至兩個月都沒有任何的補助本席在社群媒體看到學生反應他們下的註解是台灣人就是奴"},{"start":4668.103,"end":4692.771,"text":"院長你認同學生在故宮貼上這樣子的一個標籤嗎我覺得實習生有實習生的一個制度這個制度由來已久我過去在油管擔任館長的時候其實這個制度的話都是國內包括文化部包括教育部的一個實習制度都是一樣的你有看到這個圖片嗎麻煩你看一下"},{"start":4693.736,"end":4719.515,"text":"同仁有傳給我 我看過了好 我想因為勞動的法規一直在變而面對勞動權益的一個保障不斷精進就勞動部的立場是不是勞工要不要給付薪資認定在於有沒有指揮 監督 分派工作以及去年我還提出了中研院政治所違反勞動法規因為他的助理薪資未達4萬卻沒有公開的一個揭示"},{"start":4720.456,"end":4740.848,"text":"只写着依本院讲注学金的知己要点这已经违反了救福法的一个规定所以在故宫的学生实习的业务管理要点第七点就已经写到有实习项目的指派督导及考核各实习单位依全责管理办理"},{"start":4741.548,"end":4765.217,"text":"所以他就是有實際從事一些工作而不是站在那邊看看就好那我想學生在故宮的時期故宮會不會幫學生投勞保或者是紙保保險的部分的話故宮會處理是所以就是會有紙保是嗎不好意思您可以回應一下嗎一般保險就是"},{"start":4766.67,"end":4781.746,"text":"只有投保 一般保險對 因為他沒有領我們的薪資所以沒有辦法做職業保險好 那如果他發生了相關的一些災害比如說職業災害基本上來講的話 我們的因為你不認定他是職業嘛對 我們的一般保險都可以Cover"},{"start":4782.403,"end":4796.995,"text":"好那我想喔在這樣的情況之下第8點雖然規定專案申請可以只付外縣市的一個交通住宿費請問院長過去3年內實際有多少單位提出專案補助補助的比例跟金額各位多少"},{"start":4799.426,"end":4819.975,"text":"沒有所以是不是因為程序的繁瑣導致這項規定形同就是只有劇文還是大家都非常有愛都不願意申請我還是跟委員報告一下因為實習生的制度的話是所有的博物館包括國外的博物館的話有這樣的一個制度"},{"start":4820.595,"end":4839.084,"text":"是那他跟建教合作不一樣建教合作的話就是基本上來講的話就是你去名義上是實習但是實際上是有薪水的那至於說這樣的一個制度要不要改變的話那會牽涉到所有的博物館不是故宮自己擔心就是說好我付給他薪水因為"},{"start":4839.764,"end":4855.07,"text":"同樣情況的話 志工就專業的志工的話在各個館也有不同的情況有的館可以付籌碼費100塊有的館可以提供便當然後有的館什麼都沒有提供那只是給他交易信任 這都有"},{"start":4856.803,"end":4869.031,"text":"但是都是要在一個規範下去進行當然當然都要有規範下我想這些學生是真正參與到文化現場那為故宮也是貢獻他們的熱情跟專業您認為這樣的實習辦法會有同學願意來實習嗎"},{"start":4873.668,"end":4892.047,"text":"也是非常強非常強烈因為故宮是一個非常吸引人的地方因為故宮真的有值得學習的一個地方真的是一個學習的地方因為我們不願意把那個實習生當作替代人力當作勞工而是說我們希望說他們參與故宮的一個"},{"start":4893.048,"end":4914.681,"text":"參與文化 學習文化並且能夠提升一些經驗但是我要講的是說今天我具體的跟您做一個探討我們沒有任何的批評但是我希望在探討當中能夠有所大家一起來檢討現行的制度是不是可以更好所以是否可以檢討修正現行的要點建立文化實習的支持制度"},{"start":4916.341,"end":4932.93,"text":"讓實習生能夠獲得基本的交通餐費補貼或保險不僅符合教育目的更展現國家對文化人才的重視尊重如果我們連正在學習連願意走進博物館的年輕人都不願意給予一些支持我想未來會不會"},{"start":4934.991,"end":4955.677,"text":"比较没办法有更多的年轻人愿意投入这一个行业或者是愿意去走进故宫我们在讲的是未来我知道刚刚我是问过你你说很多年轻人愿意走进故宫那现在来说应该是OK对 我跟委员报告我们愿意来研议因为实习生的制度的话牵涉到教育部"},{"start":4956.337,"end":4975.534,"text":"是就是因為我們的牽動的話會影響到教育部影響到其他的情況如果說故宮開始付薪水的話所有人都來故宮然後所有的其他的實習包括地方博物館的話都會沒有實習生因為他們沒有發薪水我知道所以我要講的是說我剛所說的不是說給予薪資"},{"start":4977.916,"end":5006.486,"text":"基本的交通餐費補貼或者是剛剛說的你們有做的一般的保險這個部分能不能列入到這個所謂的我們建立文化實習的一個支持制度我希望說他是一個為了後面的50年再來建制的一個要點因為我要講的是現在故宮一樣在21世紀保有他的文化吸引更多的年輕人來到這邊實習那後面的50年呢會不會因為科技的進步讓年輕人開始"},{"start":5007.466,"end":5031.418,"text":"不願意去踏入歷史不願意踏入去文化有需要這樣子的一個跟委員報告我們會跟教育部來研商因為我們也不希望說因為故宮的作動然後影響到其他的一個實習的一個當全部人都只湧入到故宮的時候我們也會擔憂所以我說的是不是在這樣子的一個狀況之下取得一個平衡只是支持而不是給予一個薪資這部分我希望我們會後再繼續的討論是 我們會來研議好 謝謝"},{"start":5036.416,"end":5042.319,"text":"謝謝羅廷偉委員質詢 院長請回座接下來請林益錦委員質詢謝主席 有請蕭院長林委員長"},{"start":5056.537,"end":5069.524,"text":"院長早今年是故宮的百年院慶同時當然也是我們故宮北院院區的60歲生日那60年歷經這個數次的這個擴建故宮才成為今天這樣的樣子"},{"start":5074.327,"end":5103.767,"text":"那實際上光是面對這個借林三十年以上的建築我們就要必須付出額外的心力來維護整修更何況是一個六十年的這個具有這個文化就典藏全人類的這個文化資產的這個故宮博物院所以我想院長因為您待過很多的博物院服務過那我想你對博物館的這個建築一定有相當的了解"},{"start":5104.407,"end":5128.094,"text":"所以故宮北越這個建築那麼的老舊那像剛剛我提到的經過數次的擴建它新舊建築間都會有一些流生縮縫或者是說多年使用還有地震的影響那這個生縮縫它那個防水的措施以及它那個樓板部位的這個防水層它就會不同程度的損壞所以"},{"start":5130.135,"end":5136.58,"text":"絕對無法去根絕漏水的問題所以我們來看看故宮建物過往一些不堪使用的紀錄2015年鎮館電梯"},{"start":5141.215,"end":5169.248,"text":"鎮管的電梯坑滲水後來又遇到風災鎮管的三樓也漏水2017年全台的豪雨鎮管嚴重的漏水我們在新故宮第三次計畫修訂本當中甚至有提到鎮管的耐震的結構已達50年的使用年限文物典藏庫防耐震的不足對文物的典藏產生嚴重的威脅"},{"start":5170.569,"end":5198.7,"text":"我要請教說那這些漏水問題以及這個耐震的疑慮那我們今年有哪些的改善那是否現在還有漏水的事件那十年期的故宮計畫已經編了第九年的經費那請問院長評估至今到底完成度到今年至今的完成度有幾成那未來我們還有怎麼樣的執行策略 院長"},{"start":5200.349,"end":5217.964,"text":"跟委員報告 漏水的問題是因為因為葉導剛採訪我的時候我講我看他說你看那個那個建物那邊的那個塑膠布因為會漏水所以有一些可以抓漏的可以處理的部分我們都"},{"start":5220.246,"end":5246.228,"text":"時時刻刻只要有下雨的話我們就會去檢視有沒有漏水點但是有一些部分的話就是沒有辦法因為它要經過一段時間的下雨然後那個水泥層飽和度高的時候它就會滲漏這個沒有辦法去找出一個根源所以如果說真的要做的話就要把那個屋頂層的那個防水層slab通通打掉重新做對 就是要大修"},{"start":5247.029,"end":5269.166,"text":"所以這個就是放到我們的新故宮計畫的政管整建的工程裡面那以新故宮計畫來講的話它每年的達成率的話都超過9成到達9成5以它的達成率以目前來講的話超過5成左右就整個新故宮計畫因為它有三個子計畫很難去講"},{"start":5271.247,"end":5287.381,"text":"但是如果通称的话大概如果讲的话我说新故宫计划的话完成率的话应该是五成因为南院的国宝馆的话大概四成六四成八然后北院这边的话基本上来讲的话大概六成左右好"},{"start":5288.041,"end":5306.356,"text":"那我想請院長責成這個業務單位是不是列一個表單就是想載這個故宮北院軟硬體設施需要更新修整的項目交給本辦那同時我想也要給教文委員會所有的委員那因為我們再來這個會期又是預算會期"},{"start":5307.677,"end":5331.995,"text":"無論是院長您還是說整個整體我們教育文化委員會的委員我們都必須要很清楚的知道存放且展覽重要文物的故宮它究竟有哪些地方不堪使用真的需要經費來幫忙那我們朝野立委會不分黨派全手一起來支持這樣的改革所以是不是一週內可以來把這個表單給我們"},{"start":5332.816,"end":5346.972,"text":"美國委員辦公室 跟委員報告沒有問題 必要時因為那個工程的整建的話是我們黃務院長來主政也可能請黃務院長跟委員這邊做一個說明或是辦一個訪視都可以 好OK"},{"start":5347.773,"end":5368.079,"text":"那再來想要請教這個院長是說因為近年其實這個颱風季這樣子這個強降雨那遇到這個故宮其實就是用塑膠布這種陽春的方式來防滲水那可見故宮北院確實大整修真的很急迫"},{"start":5369.039,"end":5388.052,"text":"那以前這個陳其南院長主政的時候他有提出過這個北院全面整修三年讓文物遷移到南院展出的這個規劃可是當初這樣的一個想法有遭受到立法院或社會各界的一些壓力跟批評"},{"start":5389.053,"end":5417.572,"text":"那如今我想是蕭院長你來主政我本期是希望你能勇敢承擔下來就是說今年5月在南院二館的這個上樑點底下院長你就有表示說二館完工後那南院的樓地板面積就會跟北院相當那未來北院如果進行整修的話那南院就可以擔負起這個文物展出的任務所以我想要請院長說明的是說"},{"start":5419.094,"end":5431.347,"text":"針對故宮北院的全面整修那時間點會落在什麼時候那規模跟策略跟陳其南院長的計畫會有哪些不同"},{"start":5434.465,"end":5463.087,"text":"跟委員報告因為時空環境不同因為現在的當然沒有錯就新故宮計畫的整個進程的話就是說我自己跟同仁在討論上面的話就是有一些節奏上的要思考的面向就現在的故宮的第二展覽館已經開館了但是第二展覽館的能量是沒有辦法完全承擔故宮政館目前的能量"},{"start":5463.647,"end":5485.122,"text":"所以要在故宮南院二館完成之後那才有可能把整個所有故宮展示的能量做一個轉移是所以在故宮正館整修的時候基本上來講二館還是會開跟過去不一樣因為過去的話正館整修的話就等於北院都沒有產卵那現在的話我們"},{"start":5485.902,"end":5514.377,"text":"先除了一個二管所以故宮正管整修的時候二管還是會正常營運那另外的話就是更大的能量會放在南院那南院以原來的規劃的話在明年的話整個土造會完成然後之後的話我們進行室內專修所以這個時間點的話如果我現在的有時候也是技術上的問題就是當然是"},{"start":5515.217,"end":5535.046,"text":"如果現在政管故宮政管馬上整修的話那我的展示能量的話馬上消減可是南院的二管還沒有好過南院二管完成之後就你的北院其實就可以政管來整修所以它會有一個節奏性的調整那當然就是說所以你有打算就是未來政管是來大整修的"},{"start":5536.126,"end":5559.817,"text":"本來新故宮計畫就包括鎮館的整修鎮館的整修並不是為了只是做入口亭而是說它整個那個建築結構的整修然後包括防水包括它的室內空間更新因為60年的博物館基本上來講跟國外新的博物館比的話那個地板都有顯得老舊了包括有人在質疑故宮的廁所說什麼"},{"start":5562.844,"end":5589.43,"text":"不太漂亮或是車水馬桶的話就是舊式的這個東西的話我們都必須要重新那我再利用一點時間來跟您探討就是故宮北院的參觀的動線的問題北院現在的現有的這個側邊道路其實並非正規的路線而是所謂的施工道路就是說公車 汽車長期都走這條路來進出可是"},{"start":5592.651,"end":5608.309,"text":"可是故宮至今它欠缺一個統一的中央入口那動線上看起來也是如同這個進建皇帝寶物班就是說你要求民眾一路爬樓梯那沒看到文物就滿身汗啦"},{"start":5608.849,"end":5625.458,"text":"那當然現在在側邊有加設一段號稱無障礙的這個林蔭步道可是你如果遇到下雨恐怕又溼滑喔那最終民眾還是會去爬樓梯或穿越車道才能進入鎮館所以不是完整的那個所謂無障礙的設計"},{"start":5626.599,"end":5652.17,"text":"所以想要請院委員長就故宮的參觀動線來看符合一座現代化的這個博物館的基本要求看起來是沒有那在動輒被扣上去中國化這種帽子的情況之下我想你一定想好好做事那就您這個博物館職人的這個位置你有什麼樣的改革解方跟委員報告其實故宮的"},{"start":5653.74,"end":5674.338,"text":"找出一個便捷的那個參觀的動線在大故宮計畫的時候曾經是考量考量從現在的天下圍攻的那個大門然後做一個地下的連通到過去到鎮館的地下室但是這個在大故宮計畫的時候也引發很大的爭議所以最後這個案子的話完全被否決"},{"start":5675.499,"end":5693.09,"text":"那後來新故宮計畫的話我們就不動中軸線而是在現在的第二展覽館圖書文獻大樓那邊從Y28的捷運站然後從現在慈善路的公車站做一個斜坡的無障礙的連通道上去這個部分的話是台北市的"},{"start":5695.419,"end":5708.746,"text":"都發局已經審過了那我們現在在夜覽的階段就花包 準備要花包所以這個部分的話未來的話就可以從至善路然後從原來的公車亭那邊然後直接坐電扶梯上去"},{"start":5710.171,"end":5726.205,"text":"或是從Y28的捷運站直接從捷運站這邊連通上去所以這個部分的話就可以把那個立體跟平面的做一個接軌那至於中間的入口亭的話其實我們原想就是恢復原來的故宮最傳統的大鴻門的"},{"start":5728.487,"end":5740.635,"text":"包括中央博物院國立故宮博物院那個門可以變成是一個可以進出的門當然它現在不是一個主要的動線但是恢復它的一個原始的一個功能意向的話"},{"start":5742.236,"end":5762.273,"text":"這是我們去思考的但是因為這樣的話就變成說有多了一個建屋那另外的話也把一樓的大廳的屋頂推高但是因為這樣的話就牽涉到大家會認為說跟現在大家看到的形貌不一樣可是現在的形貌的話基本上來講的話也經過5次的修正也不是原來的形貌"},{"start":5763.113,"end":5778.549,"text":"所以這個部分的話我們還是會跟文字委員溝通那我也講說兩次審不過如果第三次審不過的話原則上我們就做一個明確的決定這個案子的話我們就會變更涉及好謝謝院長謝謝主席謝謝林議員質詢院長先回座接下來請葛如君委員質詢"},{"start":5798.885,"end":5802.896,"text":"好 謝謝主席有請故宮蕭宗煌院長請蕭院長郭院長好"},{"start":5807.401,"end":5831.957,"text":"院長好我想短短七分鐘巴黎羅浮宮發生的這個竊案剛剛有很多委員都很關心我們有看到其實台灣媒體也直接放在頭版但在頭版的下面作為教文委員會我們就非常高興看到有我們的故宮的一個靈屍竊的紀錄這個我想大家應該都非常榮耀就是我們保護了我們的國寶"},{"start":5832.958,"end":5846.2,"text":"但是仔細進去一看這個內容讓人非常的緊張為什麼呢他說為什麼我們75年維持零失竊紀錄呢有一個關鍵在我們故宮有四隻狗"},{"start":5847.382,"end":5874.788,"text":"四隻狗故宮編制了四名警犬晚上八點到凌晨四點互相輪班同時間兩隻警犬巡邏也就是說晚上人帶狗十二點以後就是狗帶人有時候警衛還會解開鏈子讓警犬當先鋒這個 顧院長應該有看到這個報導對不對我看您都微笑了媒體的報導基本上來講我不曉得是從哪裡聽來的"},{"start":5877.573,"end":5900.355,"text":"所以這個沒有經過故宮的同意啊這不是我們官方的所以你們到底有沒有這幾隻狗啊有有嘛所以那是甚麼有人洩漏資訊嗎所以這不實報導嗎也不是不實報導事實上我們有四隻狗可是四隻行險但是這個新聞的話並不是一個我們官方的新聞沒關係啦 院長我想喔"},{"start":5901.016,"end":5926.921,"text":"故宮一百一十四年度的預算北院安全管理維護四千四百萬南院五千萬兩個院區加起來將近是一億元結果故宮如果真的是守護安全的是四隻狗的話那是不是我們這個安全維護費變成我們要來討論警犬的飼養訓練這個費用四隻警犬要不然我們變四十隻故宮不要講七十五年七百五十年都不會有問題我想難道是這樣嗎"},{"start":5931.002,"end":5946.098,"text":"基本上來講的話過去在傳統就是說監控系統保全系統不夠完整的時代基本上來講透過警犬去做保安保全這是有的所以過去家家戶戶養狗"},{"start":5947.259,"end":5966.783,"text":"跟現在不一樣現在2025年嘛現在都是用科技化的監控系統狗都有機器狗了對吧所以我想故宮看到這個報導您說這個故宮不是只靠這四條狗你們有沒有發額外的新聞 消息 宣發讓大家知道不是這樣不然剛剛那個報導真的很像是邀請人家來測試這四條狗院長"},{"start":5970,"end":5991.156,"text":"你是不是澄清一下吧對不對沒關係我會後希望請故宮的同仁澄清一下不然這樣的報導院長看起來也不是很認可結果變成說讓大家有點誤會我覺得也不好這變成國際新聞還得了啊故宮75年鎮館的神獸竟然是四條狗"},{"start":5992.037,"end":6011.736,"text":"當然我想這可能是誤會我們很具體的來討論安全措施絕對不是這個樣子所謂的三層防護的話就外圍防護外圍防護的話就是除了狗之外的話當然我們有編制的警察然後我們有保全另外的話就是管轍的維護我們沒有"},{"start":6015.379,"end":6032.488,"text":"就是說無漏洞的一個監控系統大家無漏洞的話我盡量謝謝院長您在這裡講您可能還是要請同仁再多花一點力氣去向外去多做說明否則這個銅牆鐵壁只剩下四條口這個印象傳出去真的不太好沒關係"},{"start":6034.029,"end":6053.028,"text":"現在最主要的話是做那個什麼危險物件的一個嗅覺那這顯然你們的固工跟媒體之間的關係是要再更通暢的否則這樣的一個新聞我們覺得還是需要做多一點的這個額外後續的處理好不好那我們更具體的來討論"},{"start":6055.871,"end":6073.22,"text":"這個羅浮宮的師妾其實有要做一些模擬假設接下來要做一些模擬的訓練因為剛剛很多委員也有提到現在故宮北院南院正在千年神域跟萬年甲子也先感謝跟恭喜但是假設我們要做模擬演練會不會影響展期"},{"start":6075.321,"end":6100.757,"text":"模擬演練的話我們都在用休館跟晚上的時間來進行所以為什麼我們對那四條狗的新聞很緊張就是大家說只有四條狗現在又不能印象展旗現在有一個大好時機所以請故宮要趕快多做一點這個相關的訊息的轉達另外這一次的羅浮宮又可以看到法國警方甚至軍方迅速趕到現場假設我們先不管展旗的問題"},{"start":6101.477,"end":6124.398,"text":"之後不影響展期的情況去做模擬或者是演練請問院長警方甚至軍方有沒有在緊急狀況下協助故宮進行安全防護的機制我們跟管區跟分局還有跟那個憲兵隊就是所謂軍方的話我們是跟憲兵隊我們都有一個合作的簽署的一個"},{"start":6125.54,"end":6133.517,"text":"備忘錄他們都會來參與我們的協防那之後這個入侵演練是不是會一併納入軍警進行安全防護的測試呢"},{"start":6136.397,"end":6164.503,"text":"在軍警的部分的話基本上來講我們在國土安防的演練的時候軍警校都會參與現在是防盜現在是防盜演練防盜的話我們會同仁跟轄區好 評估一下然後因為你總不能假設真的是壞事發生了不能只靠狗去追對不對我們要大家一起來幫忙坑委員報告因為狗現在是暴獵物徵收然後巡邏然後甚至變成故宮的一個"},{"start":6166.723,"end":6190.371,"text":"可愛的神獸我們都認同啦但是那個新聞給人家一個不太安全的印象好不好這個請故宮要處理啦那另外這個剛剛提到安全評估這個您有表示啊要做這個不管是三層防護啦強化啦防爆玻璃啦安全評估什麼時候會進行什麼時候可以做升級項目的這個預估完成這個我們隨時都在進行每一次部長"},{"start":6190.831,"end":6205.603,"text":"那最新的一次會是在什麼時候我們在11月6號進行過今天下午會再一次演練10月10號會進行第二次演練17號的話會進行南北宴的一個前宴的演練"},{"start":6206.243,"end":6230.751,"text":"好 謝謝院長這個接下來真的是要請大家多多關注這個國寶真的是要靠各位來守護另外也和您討論故宮正在進行百年願慶我們非常關心熱門景點的狀態北市熱門景點的前十名第一名是西門町第二名台北101第三名松山文創園區"},{"start":6232.251,"end":6258.005,"text":"還有華山 台灣科學教育館甚至動物園等等我也很愛去故宮排在第十名造訪人次沒有突破百萬98萬院長 我覺得這個本席認為對故宮百年來講這有一點警訊這個院慶的活動都沒有辦法再造高潮高峰明年後年故宮還有沒有辦法再去有更多吸引人的亮點"},{"start":6259.793,"end":6280.669,"text":"有沒有跟委員報告因為今年的話我們一起的目標會達成沒有問題很好 院長那我打斷你我們已經幫你們整理了目前的這個一共到九月份事實上一月 三月 八月 九月這四個月份的外籍參訪人數是不如去年預期的"},{"start":6281.77,"end":6295.421,"text":"所以如果我們真的要來超越去年同期的KPI啊已經有一半是不達標囉我們百年生日啊結果我們的外賓來訪竟然還更低為什麼會這樣啊這個"},{"start":6298.694,"end":6317.607,"text":"故宮沒有深緻檢討嗎你說要會超越可是我們看到的45%的月份是甚至比去年還低現在是百年怨氣跟委員報告就是因為故宮外籍人士的參訪的話跟入境的人數消長是會有一個互動的關係我想這個理由"},{"start":6319.941,"end":6335.628,"text":"是 院長入境人口多的話那當然就是比例會比較高一點但是不好意思入境我們現在已經脫離COVID了這個入境的人口一直都還是有在增加所以我想已經不能再用這個入境人口的問題來比了"},{"start":6336.849,"end":6350.957,"text":"就算您刚刚有说十分之一的人都来故宫那就要增加我想我们手上有一本书这个百年故宫百化我想故宫这个院长也知道里面有访问你"},{"start":6352.658,"end":6378.338,"text":"對 很棒那裡面呢 你有說啊說您在訪談的時候說你是過渡期院長但是現在留下來了你覺得很高興我們也很替你高興啊但是裡面你有說啊你繼續坐在這個位置上你告訴太太說我想我是幸運的院長 您是幸運的啦我們都理解啊對故宮來講是幸運的嗎這樣子的人數你是滿意的嗎"},{"start":6379.704,"end":6399.684,"text":"還是是不是有人告訴你說哎呀 故宮啊做到剛好就好了啦這樣的人數我當然不滿意對嘛 百年宴慶耶每一個博物館 每一個空間都有它最合宜的容流人數所以故宮最適合人少一點您現在的意思是這樣嗎不是這個樣子好不好"},{"start":6401.265,"end":6428.139,"text":"這個院長我們還是一起來努力還有幾個議題談到這個展覽內容其實這本《故宮百話》野島剛先生所寫的院長是本書的受訪者之一您剛剛也知道裡面有說這是博物館專業的時代你本身也有藝術行政的專業背景專業的故宮由專業人來領導我們都非常感動以院長的背景應該十分了解策展人curator是一個正式的角色對吧"},{"start":6429.119,"end":6458.459,"text":"任務有構思展覽理念挑選藝術品作品運送展場設計行銷推廣預算甚至布展跟策展但是我們到這個參訪的時候我們想要了解一下說故宮是屬於這個二級機關應該是所有博物館裡面有最充足最落實專業分工的結果我們進一步去詢問說故宮到底有多少位專職策展人的時候院長您知道嗎"},{"start":6459.778,"end":6477.395,"text":"故宮的答覆竟然是零人竟然全部都是由公務員或教育任用的人來兼任柯委員報告這個邏輯思維不對因為所有的博物館都是這樣都是策展人的host curator的話都是自己的研究人員來擔任"},{"start":6480.054,"end":6504.017,"text":"會找外面的人但是本身都是研究人員研究人員的話可能是文物的研究人員可能是教育推廣的研究人員可能是修復的人員他都可能做都來你一邊又要修復一邊又要策展你一邊做行政一邊接待外賓也要策展我們甚至了解到策展人裡面有人一年光是一年就策劃六檔展覽"},{"start":6504.557,"end":6524.8,"text":"一邊還要做其他所有的事情典藏修護研究分析那你剛剛說所有的不好意思主席這個時間要給我一下因為這是人權的問題不要讓大家有這種血汗怨的感覺為什麼呢我們給大家看一下那個院長你剛剛說大家都這樣有嗎大家有都這樣嗎有專任的策展人"},{"start":6526.38,"end":6538.045,"text":"有全部都是用host嗎有全部都是用兼任嗎No現在又No了這個聘用專任的話專任策展人啊聘用專任就是自己裡面的管員"},{"start":6539.255,"end":6556.431,"text":"不是 這個管員他如果聘進來是策展人的話他就是主要專職策展他其他行政事務可以不用做那麼多跟委員報告如果一個策展人不用做研究他怎麼策展啊他有研究的背景啊什麼研究的背景"},{"start":6558.452,"end":6577.904,"text":"所以您是說所以院長您在這裡正式的懷疑這些策展人都不是專用專任我跟委員報告就是說外面的現代的美術館他很容易找一個策展人去策劃一個展覽這個展覽的話跟館內的展覽沒有關係對不起院長我還是要打斷你這是專任策展人"},{"start":6578.644,"end":6599.25,"text":"這是專任策展人我們這裡有一點我在國美館待過您現在已經離開了這樣的敘述方式不對我現在還對他們很清楚了解這樣的敘述方式不對因為專聘的專任就是館員院長其實我是來幫忙的"},{"start":6599.73,"end":6628.148,"text":"因為我們是真的有私下了解到其實真的有同仁的工作過重你們應該是有機會考慮專任策展人的角色這個部分我是希望院長承諾對於人力進行盤點對於缺乏人力的部分我們是不是不分黨派我們一起向行政院來爭取跟委員報告如果故宮裡面有一個專業策展人他只做策展"},{"start":6628.948,"end":6652.767,"text":"他不做研究 不做其他事情院長 我沒有這個意思喔我沒有這個意思喔院長 我沒有這個意思喔你們現在的是什麼他主要的工作是典藏 保存 修復研究 分析 衍生內容創意 加值 展覽 設計 觀眾服務學術交流 教育推廣 數位學習國際合作和其他有關事項以及配合業務需要辦理的行政業務相關活動發表職務有關是學術研究"},{"start":6655.729,"end":6685.195,"text":"至於他還要來協助專業策展我們講的是專任策展人他並非不能做其他的事是說他以策展為主要的專任院長我想我們不要在這裡做這樣子的一種文字上的我沒有那個意思所以不要誤會我好不好我希望院長可不可以兩週內提出故宮人力盤點的報告以書面方式提供給我們我們一起來爭取好不好"},{"start":6685.575,"end":6700.735,"text":"可以 這個部分的話我可以請我們館的研究人員他們去思考什麼樣是一個最好的方式至於說所謂的一個人一年策集展的話基本上來講的話那是協助策展"},{"start":6701.636,"end":6722.888,"text":"因為策展是一個團隊如果一個人策展的話基本上來講你要做一個展覽沒關係那你器物要找誰你書畫要找誰院長你文獻要找誰都是一個現在北院一共有42位南院有11位53位的研究人員都在輪流擔任策展者沒有錯那這些人的工作"},{"start":6723.348,"end":6751.485,"text":"我是希望具體提出希望故宮來討論一下當他們專心在策展的時候你總有一個主策展人吧你總有一個幾個主策展人嘛那你協助策展的人那平常的工作是不是能夠協調一下去減少他們的行政事務的負擔我想我們的任務是一致的我們要不只您幸福啊故宮也要幸福故宮的專業人員也要幸福這您同意吧"},{"start":6752.196,"end":6773.383,"text":"我同意我同意但是這樣的保護管運作機制的話其實全世界都有院長是不是委員有說你們盤點人力做一份報告給他辦公室你們再來討論說關於我們所有的人力部署應該做怎樣的調整好不好好謝謝主席好謝謝院長再麻煩謝謝謝謝葛珞駿委員院長請回座接下來請吳麗華委員質詢"},{"start":6788.922,"end":6791.407,"text":"謝謝主席有請蕭院長蕭院長抱歉有點亂的情形來"},{"start":6799.765,"end":6824.844,"text":"好 院長好大家都會提到台北故宮百年北京也是故宮百年新聞上我們有看到就是這一次的北京故宮百年其實也邀請了很多台灣的媒體前去做訪問特別我們看到聯合報它的報導是這麼寫著北京掏出壓箱寶來紀念故宮百年"},{"start":6825.644,"end":6852.657,"text":"活動敘事是強調中華文化正統那特別呢他們就是強調說跟中華民族命運修其與共那也特別呢有民眾對聯合報記者表達他相信台灣的故宮文物最終會回歸祖國北京故宮的前院長他說堅信台北故宮的文物遲早會到紫禁城展出現任的院長也"},{"start":6854.497,"end":6869.244,"text":"說南遷文物忠誠海峽兩岸故宮博物館好 重點它的策展區那個主題寫著遷台北反那我在想喔院長你有什麼看法"},{"start":6873.841,"end":6885.575,"text":"兩岸各自表述那你怎麼表述不管在政治上或是在國際場合上一直都是這樣故宮的文物當然主要來自"},{"start":6887.757,"end":6907.291,"text":"紫金城的舊廠這是事實沒有錯可是因為在合法掙錢中華民國國民政府合法掙錢的執政時代來到台灣現在這些文物都登記中華民國的財產很好這個是待無一役那現在故宮的工作因為這些文物到台灣來"},{"start":6908.552,"end":6931.084,"text":"100年故宮裡面75年在台灣跟台灣這片土地發生了很多連結那也是台灣的整個文化滋養的一部分所以這個部分的話我們還是會堅信就是博物館只要做好文物管理然後做文物展覽教育推廣研究的工作我想這是我們現在目前最重要的任務至於"},{"start":6932.338,"end":6960.138,"text":"北京故宮他們的講法我們就是聽聽就好好 那再請教一下院長您有沒有注意到中國有修訂他們的中華人民共和國文物保護法而且修訂之後是在今年的3月1號生效你對這部法有了解嗎我對對岸的法律並沒有太大的了解但是我知道有這個事情"},{"start":6960.851,"end":6990.3,"text":"那它的内容大概是说什么当然PPT都有写了对 它当然对所谓的流失境外的文物那这个会牵涉到一个合法性的问题就是流失的文物的话它当初是被盗卖或是被盗取或是透过一个不正当的手段行为去取得文物那要求归还的话基本上来讲的话这是他们自己认为他们的潜力"},{"start":6990.84,"end":7006.346,"text":"但是故宮的文物的話是在我剛講合法政府合法掙錢的時代遷移到台灣那時候中華人民共和國還沒有成立所以基本上來講那北京故宮會去追討嗎我是說台北故宮會去追討北京故宮文物嗎"},{"start":7007.507,"end":7028.665,"text":"我們也沒有辦法做這樣的一個動作因為基本上來講管轄錢的問題我們現在也沒有辦法去透過所謂的國際法庭去追討北京故宮的文物所以北京故宮的話基本上來講的話也沒有辦法所謂的說去認定台灣的這些文物是他們的"},{"start":7029.725,"end":7045.416,"text":"那看起來故宮它其實已經成為統戰的一環所以呢我們在這個地方就是特別要提醒強調的就是我們台北故宮有什麼樣的一個論述這個很重要"},{"start":7046.016,"end":7066.81,"text":"那在這裡呢其實過去的八年歐美他們其實也通過了很多的實際行動逐步向外國就是去歸還那些非法走私戰爭掠奪的文物了舉個例子像去年是牡丹社事件的150週年所以我們在前幾年呢有特別去幫忙"},{"start":7067.791,"end":7084.658,"text":"在愛丁堡的牡丹社遺骨的返還目前也安置在我們台灣史前館的南科考古館我想院長應該了解這件事情在這裡就是特別要提到畢竟我們的台北故宮已經100年"},{"start":7086.019,"end":7115.339,"text":"那我覺得要創造自己的敘事自己的史觀然後要跟對岸的要做出區隔要有更多的一個本土的內容所以呢我看到像明年的2月故宮說要攜手英國國家學術研究院以文化遺產的視角探討亞洲全球的秩序所以是講14到19世紀明清時期的東亞國際外交那我很想了解"},{"start":7116.742,"end":7120.496,"text":"這個內容有沒有跟什麼有關跟我們台灣本土有關"},{"start":7123.474,"end":7147.935,"text":"這是一個英國國家學術院的研究計畫那當然全球召集計畫是第一第一個獲得那個獎助的一個計畫那這個計畫的話它的主持人的話是由國外的學者來主導那故宮當然有一位同仁參與基本上來講的話他做一個學術上的研究雖然是在故宮這邊"},{"start":7150.818,"end":7158.766,"text":"這個禮拜幾辦那個閉門的會議但基本上來講的話是一個協助研究跟故宮並沒有直接的一個關聯"},{"start":7160.203,"end":7186.014,"text":"所以這個完全跟故宮沒有關係不能講沒有關係因為當然討論到整個東亞的DN政治的話當然會討論到中國討論到韓國討論到日本討論到台灣這是必然的但是這是一個獨立的研究其實我們從頭開始講就是一直在強調我們故宮要有很重要的一個本土論述"},{"start":7187.742,"end":7209.199,"text":"那即便是辦理這樣的一個活動如果我們都沒有辦法去產生自己的一個本土論述特別假設他講的是東亞國際外交那牡丹社事件是我們台灣第一個國際事件也是影響台灣命運很重要的一個事件那如果在這個時候"},{"start":7210.08,"end":7224.04,"text":"他都沒有辦法被拿出來講沒有辦法被論述那我不太理解我們故宮為什麼要在南院去推出這樣的展跟委員報告這個展覽當然我講說是由英國的"},{"start":7225.482,"end":7248.369,"text":"學術院贊助然後就是說召集人士都是外國的學者故宮有參與但是這一次在故宮的閉門會議裡面的話就是當然有蒲中城有大川就是有幾位原住民的學者然後包括劉玉昌去談述就是台灣這一塊土地他在整個地緣政治上面還有族群的關係這個是有的那展覽的部分的話當然也會有"},{"start":7248.629,"end":7270.914,"text":"可是我跟委員報告就是故宮無意透過一個展覽的形式然後去牽扯到過多的地緣政治或是一個意識形態的議題因為這樣對一個博物館的運作的話基本上來講的話它會有小麻煩所以我們盡量去做一個學術客觀中立的一個展覽的呈現"},{"start":7271.274,"end":7293.853,"text":"如果在我們自己的地方做這樣的一個學術展還要去想到說會引來小麻煩我都覺得不太可思議我希望院長能夠再思考一下但是我還是要特別的來強調因為故宮南院這幾年我們看到有很多關於本土的一個台灣內容"},{"start":7297.115,"end":7311.802,"text":"台北故宮這邊我們看得出來其實還是很保持它一定的一個定位跟特色但是我們可以看到我們南苑現在感覺上它的遊客量越來越多"},{"start":7312.902,"end":7337.378,"text":"那為什麼呢 因為它本土化的內容很接地氣的行銷方式變成了故宮南苑的成功方程式反觀 我們來看一下我們的台北故宮最近網路上也在討論很多人想說 欸 故宮很好 我要去那邊實習但是卻有人抱怨說 故宮太奴了"},{"start":7338.138,"end":7354.443,"text":"放棄 謝謝 連一點交通費都沒有那我覺得因為我們現在故宮是我們整個博物館的領頭羊洞見觀瞻大家會仿效 好就仿效那我不曉得說院長你怎麼想"},{"start":7357.188,"end":7378.767,"text":"這個問題的話 我想我們會跟教育部來合作 因為實習生的話牽涉到教育部然後學校的一個實習政策 當然可以提供更多的福利的話是一個好事可是因為會牽動到其他的相關的 就是不同的博物館或不同的實習制度 這個部分的話我們會來研究評估"},{"start":7379.389,"end":7387.778,"text":"我希望給我一個報告好不好好那在這裡呢我最後想要關心一下就是故宮有沒有做族語的導覽故宮的族語導覽的話的確是沒有"},{"start":7395.492,"end":7421.659,"text":"但是你們哒啦啦的在夜報上面寫說與客委會合作20則客語語音導覽客委會合作的話基本上是有因為是客委會他們客家文化中心他們提供那園民會合作沒有他們提供資源請故宮協助去做客語的導覽好那我現在要講的就是有法源耶我們的國家語言法治安法的第7條音"},{"start":7424.14,"end":7436.031,"text":"強化公共服務資源及營造友善使用環境原住民族語言發展法第8條應在公共場所推動使用原住民族語言以營造原住民語言使用環境"},{"start":7438.942,"end":7461.422,"text":"好 那這個部分的話 我們來跟那個延民中心來研議看看是不是可以比照客戶發中心的而且我們很傷心耶你的導覽系統 華語 台語 客語 英語 日語 韓語西 法 德 澳 泰 粵 印尼 手語連手語都有 口述影像都有就是沒有國家語言法裡面包含的主語內容耶"},{"start":7463.43,"end":7477.429,"text":"我不曉得我們的故宮一定要這樣子嗎那麼樣的一個中華化嗎這個部分的話我們跟文化部我們來評估跟那個園民會來評估看看怎麼樣處理"},{"start":7479.33,"end":7494.671,"text":"我希望如果你們說很少其實台語 客語你看租界的北部縣區一個人台語一個 客語五個華語是五萬多雖然很少你們還是做了那國外的語言"},{"start":7495.99,"end":7522.114,"text":"你們也是都比照那些大國大族你們也都做了所以我覺得在這個時候看到台灣原住民族語言在國家語言裡面缺席我覺得這個部分要深切討論可以改進那希望把改進方案可以提到辦公室來好嗎是好謝謝院長謝謝主席謝謝我立法委員質詢院長請回座"},{"start":7523.717,"end":7542.36,"text":"接下来请郭玉琴委员咨询我们在谢龙介委员咨询之后休息五分钟请郭玉琴委员谢主席有请院长谢校院长好各位好"},{"start":7543.915,"end":7559.088,"text":"院長早安 9月的時候我特別去參觀了我們的萬博我想裡頭也有故宮合作的一些區塊讓我們看到文物跟科技創意的一個結合非常的讓人印象深刻"},{"start":7559.888,"end":7580.918,"text":"另外從我們的大美不言到紐約大都會博物館特別第一次來到台灣的這些藝術作品的展出這兩次的特展我一共去了四次當然於公於私我都去了也要給故宮加油打氣我覺得這個是非常棒的一個展覽"},{"start":7581.778,"end":7598.927,"text":"那這也代表了世界級的一個典藏願意來到台灣尤其是來到故宮來做這樣子的一個交流但我也想要趁這個機會來問一下就是當國際找了故宮那我們也準備好要來迎接世界了嗎那我想這個大都會的這個展覽它是第一次登場"},{"start":7599.867,"end":7627.312,"text":"那對於之前像是梵科雅寶他們的這個大美不言或者是大都會他們都是非常大的一個展覽那我想這個品牌的合作是非常重要的第一步那我想故宮有沒有把這樣子的一個計畫合作的一個模式延伸成所謂的常態性的一個國際的展現那另外我們過去的展覽比方說我們可能要到到其他的國家去"},{"start":7628.192,"end":7638.323,"text":"展覽都是以初屆文物為主喔那未來是不是能夠甚至從被動的應邀變成主動的策展有沒有這樣的一個計畫"},{"start":7641.043,"end":7657.317,"text":"委員很清楚在國內的國際展就是有兩種主要的模式一種的話就是管對管的管制交流合作那另外一個是透過中介團體的一般來講的話就有商業效益的這樣的一個展覽"},{"start":7658.378,"end":7677.976,"text":"那因為最主要的話就是說它的成本費用非常高然後它彼此對文物的選擇跟安全運輸的保障各方面的話都非常重視所以國際展覽的話一般來談的話都是要談好幾年所以包括故宮的那個"},{"start":7679.932,"end":7705.274,"text":"捷克展跟龍展的話其實都也不是說我來了一談就成而是說我來的時候的話就是更明確的把它做一個定案所以未來的這樣的展覽模式的話我們當然會把它做成一個報告因為我們請那個漁夫那邊就把這樣的一個展覽經驗做成是一個完整的檔案記錄那未來的話作為我們未來交流的一個參考"},{"start":7706.075,"end":7735.283,"text":"好那我想那個剛剛我特別提到這個萬博我想那個也可以從這個萬博的經驗成為這個文化外交的一個固定的夥伴然後我想這個故宮也就是也可以往這樣子的一個方向去努力但是呢我想呢除了我剛剛所提到的我們關心就是國際上的一個展覽我們當然也關心展覽背後的一個最重要的基礎就是我們的文物保護的一個問題喔那我想這個近期國際接連發生所謂的博物館的安全的事件不管是羅浮宮也好"},{"start":7735.803,"end":7759.806,"text":"他在嚴密的一個防護之下仍然發生了非常重大的一個竊盜案那另外呢包含我們在這個捷克國家博物館因為也有展出我們總共131組的一個珍貴的文物那麼包含翠玉白菜在內那接連也收到了所謂的縱火啦槍擊等等惡意的一些威脅啦"},{"start":7760.767,"end":7776.128,"text":"我想故宮資產的一個保護已經不是只有我們自己本身管理的一個問題甚至也是延伸到所謂的國家安全的一個議題我想在這場外展在事前我們有沒有做過跨部會的一個動態風險的一個評估"},{"start":7777.91,"end":7799.02,"text":"那在這個捷克的這次的展覽有沒有由國安外交文化三方共定最高等級的一個安全的計畫這是第一個問題喔那第二個問題是說當捷克他們出現了這些所謂的黑函恐嚇性的時候我們故宮除了發表了三項聲明以外喔那有沒有跟這個捷克國家博物館"},{"start":7799.72,"end":7820.527,"text":"要求更加的這個嚴格的管理那未來如果還有類似比方說我們能到日本或者是我們到美國去潛在這些所謂的合作然後來策展或是展覽那如果碰到類似突發的一些威脅我們有沒有一個制度化的流程可以來做管理"},{"start":7822.43,"end":7844.099,"text":"跟委員報告就是故宮的出訪的一個交流基本上來講不是第一次所以過去的話都是用一種單純的文化交流的角度然後必要的國際規格的安全防護我們都會處理但是一切就是有兩件新的一個突發狀況一個就是那個"},{"start":7847.353,"end":7865.699,"text":"受到恐攻另外一個的話就是因為外館有失竊油管有失竊的一個現象所以就產生一個新的議題當然故宮文物的話出國不是故宮博物院可以就單純決定因為我們要送到文資局文資委員評議之後由文化部報行政院同意才可以出國"},{"start":7867.2,"end":7886.474,"text":"那未來的話當然就是因為這樣的現象未來文物在出國的時候我們會有更嚴謹的一個評鑑包括我也只是同仁就是不是只有出國展覽就算在國內的展覽的話它的那個風險評估的話要納為我們出展的一個重要的"},{"start":7886.994,"end":7915.442,"text":"要向所以這一次的話譬如說我們要去那個南陽博物館的話包括交通的風險評估我們都會納入就是說要走哪一條路然後怎麼要管控這個我們都會來處理好 為什麼我要特別提這一點因為10月21號卓仲泰院長也特別提到了就是針對五大威脅的一個國安的17項措施當中那也包含了這個故宮博物院在內的一些關鍵基礎的一個設施其實早就已經在做了"},{"start":7915.942,"end":7931.432,"text":"那針對這個部分其實也是應該也有相關的一個進程那另外就是說剛剛院長有特別提到其實不是只有在國外其實在國內那麼包含雖然我們已經有強化這個RFID的一個管理"},{"start":7931.852,"end":7952.717,"text":"但是內部的內控的問題其實也是要同步的升級那麼包含人員的一個審查的一個機制的外包廠商的一個資格甚至夜間巡邏或者是修應該是說維修通報的一個機制其實都應該要有一個明確的標準然後那我想這個部分也是我們要特別特別小心注意的那我想呢"},{"start":7953.917,"end":7971.093,"text":"接下來我要問的就是人力的部分我想去年其實上個會期包含今年5月其實我也特別提到剛剛吳麗華委員也特別提到就是實習制度欠缺誘因那怎麼樣能夠這個攜接這樣子機制從制度面來改善這個人才的一個流用"},{"start":7971.573,"end":7991.053,"text":"我想故宮典藏了將近有70萬件的一個文物但是我們的庫房的編制的人員只有50人這平均每一個人可能要管理14000件那麼包含這個技工臨時人力在內我想這是明顯的一個不足這個部分其實在過去多次我也都有在這邊質詢過我們的院長"},{"start":7992.674,"end":8006.344,"text":"目前為止我們有沒有最新的一些計畫或者是在人力的補充上面或者修復人力的部分有沒有什麼樣的一個新的計畫能夠來做培育或者是能夠解決當前這個員額不足的一個問題各位報告"},{"start":8008.886,"end":8028.212,"text":"故宮的話就是編制的修護人員的話是16位沒有錯可是我們文物藝皇保存的人力基本上來講的話包括相關的研究人員的話加起來的話其實我們維護文物的人力不能用單純的修護人員去計算"},{"start":8028.692,"end":8046.049,"text":"那因為紋路的維護的話也不是說像那個車庫裡面汽車每天都要給他雞媽蛋子膽一膽因為紋路有狀況的時候我們才會處理那今年的話就是明年的話紋路有狀況的時候才要處理那沒有預防性的維護嗎"},{"start":8047.23,"end":8070.891,"text":"而預防性的維護就是紋路如果狀況穩定的話基本上我們不去動它了解好那今年會增加一個基金的聘用的人員明年會增加兩位基金聘用的人我們有跟行政院爭取11位人力可是沒有準所以我們就是基金今年聘一位明年聘"},{"start":8071.631,"end":8096.416,"text":"兩位那如果說我們的那個基金的研議有的話那後來的話我們會繼續來增加好那我想的今年就是剛好碰到這個百年的願慶我想這個修復是不是的修復的一些需求因為現在又有這個我們的北院跟南院那這個人力的部分如果出現了斷層出現了警訊那這個部分我想也應該要來積極的往這個部分去研議"},{"start":8097.096,"end":8121.542,"text":"那如果有相關更近期的一些不管是剛剛有提到因為其實五月的時候這個院長也有特別提到就是用基金能夠來這個撲補然後來增加這個人力的部分如果有確實的話那麻煩把詳細的一些資料再提供給我辦公室作為參考可以嗎是可以沒有問題好謝謝謝謝院長謝謝主席謝謝郭益勤委員質詢院長請回座接下來請張雅琳委員質詢"},{"start":8139.082,"end":8140.505,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們邀請院長請院長"},{"start":8145.377,"end":8169.659,"text":"張委員早我剛剛在下面聽吳立華委員講有關於北京故宮的一些敘事可能涉及統戰的部分我希望就是說剛剛吳立華委員也有希望我們的院長要有態度要建設出台灣不同的地方並且要勇於去爭取去說明這個部分我也希望我也是跟吳立華委員的要求是一致的"},{"start":8170.279,"end":8183.122,"text":"那也希望院長未來不要說什麼這個可能會有一些小小的問題小小的矛盾我們自己是台灣我們在自己的國家竟然連這樣子的事情都沒有辦法說我相信所有人都應該要為台灣的外交來做努力可以嗎"},{"start":8185.452,"end":8211.784,"text":"當然首先我們先來講一個問題就是我想大家都非常的關注有關於我們的國寶因為最近的這個羅浮宮的這個事件他這個文物的失竊那其實故宮馬上就展出了一些相關的行動就是說你們會即刻啟動最高層級的安全防護檢討與強化作業聚焦於這個沉重的防暴玻璃與具安全"},{"start":8213.785,"end":8241.366,"text":"檢驗然後還有夜間巡邏跟夜間巡邏的頻率會提升以及我們的外牆與施工通道防入侵模擬測試所以我想知道這個因為這次竊竊其實是竊賊是用升降設備來闖入顯示一個非典型入侵的風險那過去呢故宮雖然保持零失竊的紀錄但是我想面對一些各種不管是人為迫害或是施工的漏洞我們都不能夠掉以輕心所以我想請問一下院長最近一次的"},{"start":8241.927,"end":8244.516,"text":"防竊防災演練是在什麼時候"},{"start":8246.535,"end":8272.087,"text":"呃基本上來講的話現在是11月17號南北縣都會進行一個比較完整的一個一個演練11月17號11月17號我們就會做這個防竊防災演練嗎是包含了有關於深江設備啦外牆施工通道等非典型的路徑模擬還是跟過去一樣的模擬型形態呢好吧我們請副院長說明一下好了"},{"start":8274.412,"end":8292.492,"text":"我再次說明一下我們事件發生之後我們院長馬上主持緊急應變的會議抱歉可以靠近麥克風一點嗎聽不太清楚對不起10月23我們就馬上進行緊急的安全會議10月30就要副院長應變的一個檢討"},{"start":8294.025,"end":8315.242,"text":"那11月3號我們就桌棋桌棋就在桌面上做演習了那我們接著就是今天下午大概18點的時候我們就會做實際的演練包括警察單位也會來參與然後到11月10號的下午一點半又會再做第二次"},{"start":8315.962,"end":8337.435,"text":"我想問一下 因為其實我知道你們平常都會做一些演練但是我想這一次的狀況是跟過去非常的不一樣因為這個案例凸顯了一個非典型入侵的風險所以我想知道的是到底我們現在有沒有針對這一種我們過去可能沒有想過的升降設備外牆施工通道這樣子的一個非典型入侵做一個模擬的練習呢 我們有沒有"},{"start":8337.995,"end":8365.305,"text":"因為兩地的情境是完全不一樣對以故宮正館來講的話我們的外牆出入口幾乎都被封閉對所以在這一部分我們有經過相當的研習至於施工通道施工通道那是在另外一部分對這跟現場展覽的展間是不一樣的"},{"start":8367.009,"end":8385.286,"text":"對 所以你的意思就是說我們基本上這個羅浮宮的這種情境在故宮應該是不會發生 對嗎聽起來是這樣講具體一點就是進入的第一條件是不會在故宮發生的但是進入展場之後"},{"start":8386.465,"end":8400.79,"text":"他可能就是可以作為一個好 那我想問一下那就是進入展場之後因為我們現在是有提到說我們都有些防暴玻璃那我們針對防暴玻璃和警報靈敏度是不是也有做相關的測試那跟我還是重新講一下沒關係 我剛剛聽懂了"},{"start":8402.33,"end":8428.627,"text":"三層的防護的話第一個就是說我們的故宮延期的入口的話基本上來講的話沒關係院長我剛剛真的有聽懂不然這樣我時間會不夠至於玻璃的部分的話故宮現在玻璃的要求我們有沒有做相關的測試有測試而且故宮還有一個比較特殊的就是有玻璃碎裂的偵測裝置所以基本上來講的話只要玻璃碎裂的話就會所以我們上次全面檢測在什麼時候"},{"start":8429.948,"end":8444.337,"text":"我們隨時都在做而且現在的故宮對玻璃安全玻璃不可能隨時啦一定是有一個頻率吧已經到了那個那個那個掌櫃公司做不出來的地步了就是說因為故宮要求太高好的但沒關係我想問一下"},{"start":8446.718,"end":8468.239,"text":"好那我這樣非常清楚了就是說我們基本上對於文物的保全我們做的是比吾羅佛宮好像似乎還要更全面更完整這樣子那我想這樣就是希望就是我們的故宮可以繼續的保持啦因為畢竟保存的是我們最重要的文物那我接下來要問一個題目就是有關於數位的部分就是說我們在這個故宮呢"},{"start":8469.12,"end":8493.018,"text":"過去其實從2002年開始我們就有關注到這個數位轉型的部分所以那時候專注於在文物的保存還有研究以及建立資料庫後來在2011年的時候我們把這個資訊中心納編為教育展之處也就是說我們將資訊科技教育推廣以及展示設計相結合打破了過去的一些內部組織的規劃"},{"start":8494.899,"end":8514.949,"text":"所以我們就看到故宮的一系列的數位化接下來在2019年我們又再有一次的轉型是把永續的概念把它做一個連結目標是轉向觀眾服務開放使用權以及加值應用以及利用數據分析來理解訪客"},{"start":8515.609,"end":8532.116,"text":"那我想要請教就是說我們之前其實有一些曾經故宮2.0捕捉靈光的這個新媒體藝術展它其實是把我們的西山行旅圖還有翠玉白菜等作數位的演繹那其實我覺得評價其實也都蠻好的效果也很不錯那我接下來想要請教一個問題就是說當我們現在在這個"},{"start":8536.258,"end":8560.211,"text":"AI時代 之前10月的時候文化部跟教育部有一個博物館的創新管理的會議我不曉得說當時故宮有沒有相關的類似相關的會議來討論在AI時代的博物館應用畢竟故宮過去都只是領頭羊我想要確認說我們有沒有類似相關的會議在討論有關於AI的應用這件事情上"},{"start":8562.752,"end":8580.082,"text":"故宮基本上來講的話我們有辦過類似的研討會可是跟教育部對口去討論這個事情並沒有但是故宮的話基本上來講的話我們提供了線上的一個博物館然後跟推廣教育活動的話我們都有含納各個地方的學校"},{"start":8581.127,"end":8604.683,"text":"我想問一下,到底現在故宮有沒有可以去找到留住像這樣子的專業的科技人才?因為過去您也有提到說以我們人事薪資結構,其實是很難找到數據的科學家、互動的設計師,甚至是UI設計的工程師。所以我想了解,未來在AI時代來臨,故宮要如何保持競爭力呢?"},{"start":8606.629,"end":8632.883,"text":"故宮博物院的話人力編制的話當然是有限包括我們的那個數位置新室的人力基本上來講的話沒有辦法擴張可是我們跟學校跟一些工研院跟一些學術單位合作的話基本上來講像這一次的話城市化前在那個大阪市博的話就跟工研院合作我想跨業的合作的話基本上來講的話比我們自己的人力去發展的話其實有更大的空間"},{"start":8634.107,"end":8655.33,"text":"好,我想因為之前也是有一些學術來批評啦,就是說有關於博物館的組織變革及數位化的專業人才培育部分是需要持續的來強化。所以我想除了我們跟其他人合作之外啦,我們是不是也可以去思考一下,是不是可以用這個外包專業服務的方式啦,或是其他的法人博物館,maybe,也可以去思考一下。"},{"start":8656.411,"end":8681.503,"text":"怎麼樣的讓我們可以在AI的時代能夠保持我們的競爭力那因為時間有限我先簡單要一個報告就是說我們是不是可以提供一個人才評估規劃的一個報告給我是根本報告因為我們最近報了一個計畫然後給行政院我們希望把原來的世衛資訊室改成一個世衛資訊處讓它的功能的話可以有更強的發揮那這個案子還在行政院審議當中"},{"start":8682.583,"end":8698.731,"text":"了解那我最後再花個一分鐘的時間很快很快就是說我想要拜託我們的院長就是說因為其實國際博物館像是在倫敦自然史博物館或是東京國立博物館都已經進入了AI的導覽甚至還有兒童數位互動平台的一個階段那甚至呢史密森學會"},{"start":8699.591,"end":8724.687,"text":"它也有兒童數位研究部門來開放資料跟教材給學校和AI教育平台使用我們現在是不是有針對兒童或是家庭的觀眾來出或是開始相關的研究去了解如何設計出一個數位互動平台或是導覽的系統因為根據研究發現我們如果可以導入的話孩子停留的時間會更長所以我們現在有沒有相關的進度呢"},{"start":8726.235,"end":8745.064,"text":"這個部分當然國外的博物館都有在做不過實際上還多是一個局部的一個實驗的性質明年故宮的話就是會有一個AI展廳就是那南葉未來的話也會有一個AI的那個特別的展館這個部分的話我們都有已經在做一個規劃"},{"start":8746.024,"end":8765.741,"text":"但是我想問的是針對小孩子的部分我們有沒有對就是所謂的小孩畢竟南院其實有非常多的小孩去耶對包括就是小朋友的一個教育推廣我講的是數位互動的部分或是AI導覽的東西我們有沒有類似這樣子如果你們有這些規劃那是不是就可以給我一個規劃的報告"},{"start":8767.182,"end":8781.806,"text":"數位互動的話基本上是沒有問題因為事實上我們譬如說我們那時候的那隻大白馬然後小朋友畫圖可以上去的話基本上來講像類似這樣的數位互動的話雖然不叫AI可是已經具有AI的一個實驗性質了"},{"start":8786.263,"end":8797.685,"text":"沒關係這樣子好了你給我有沒有任何關於數位跟AI的規劃好不好針對於兒童的部分好不好謝謝OK好謝謝張雅玲委員質詢院長請回座接下來請謝榮介委員質詢"},{"start":8816.348,"end":8824.317,"text":"主席 我請議長院長 請蕭院長來 謝委員 你好議長 辛苦了 不客氣可以聽你的答詢喔 替你吃點心"},{"start":8832.642,"end":8844.41,"text":"你這樣表現得不像故鄉萬無一失沒有故鄉萬無一失這就是重點嘛但是我不能起來說我整個都知道我請教你在我們故鄉的這種保全這麼精密你認為做一個環節是比最脆弱的一個環節"},{"start":8867.135,"end":8879.562,"text":"就是在你內心最親密的地方最擔心的是做一個困擾你不開心的話,那個叉拉布聽到以後不一定會破你的脖子我會想想要怎麼幫你補救對不對,不用怕怕什麼"},{"start":8884.355,"end":8909.228,"text":"我...這台語很難說你用講一講就好了我想那個南苑的話基本上是一個新的建築所以他...我看你講我就是去南苑回來我就替你做擔心他的建築結構的話基本上來講的話是比較沒有問題北苑的話是建築比較老舊可是因為他水泥的反而感覺上很安全但事實上的話就是"},{"start":8910.583,"end":8916.108,"text":"我這樣說 你如果不變 我告訴你 針對最脆弱的部分內部應該再做一個研討 要怎麼來補充 這比較實際的不然我們的國保 你看今年 幾年了 幾萬人參觀的人數一年多 一年少人 比較這樣"},{"start":8935.455,"end":8963.3,"text":"沒有啦,一年比一年多啦,今年破一百萬南院的話一直在增加,並沒有減少我們疫情進行,你知不知道那個人數很厲害我在北院的話,當然就是在疫情期間的話,有一段時間南院一年,統計是99萬多而已,沒有到一百萬你說破一百萬,沒有啦,差一點點啦有啦,今年破一百啦,差三千多啦"},{"start":8963.76,"end":8969.306,"text":"沒有啦 今年破100前天破100我請教你一個推廣過境卡的案件你怎麼看保護管卡這個合約總共五千幾萬嘛對 五千幾萬你是怎麼跟法庭"},{"start":8983.458,"end":9009.705,"text":"跟委員報告 就是那個故宮保管卡 他的經費預算的話是在那個新故宮計畫裡面我們花了總預算是五千多萬 那我們結算花了四千多萬是啊 你今天開白色 我的錢怎麼停 我想不到呢委員 我跟你報告 前陣子開下去的時候 阿伯的續卡的情況很不理想"},{"start":9012.121,"end":9029.875,"text":"細卡很不理想的話 基本上來講的話這個案子就變成沒辦法登記維持了就對了 對因為我不可能一年拿五千萬下去五千萬下去所以你就是緊接快要給我站起來這樣那不是我 那是經紀人的意見我知道不是你啦 就是你故鄉啦不要說拿給別人"},{"start":9031.676,"end":9047.489,"text":"所以你算這個乾淨手快發沾就沾了不是不是跟委員報告不是我不是我把這個案子停掉了因為他的他的執行已經到了我現在告訴你我現在告訴你我是你的委員我會把他送檢調你知道嗎我會把他送現在有問題沒問題我們不知道啦我會把他送調查"},{"start":9058.871,"end":9061.136,"text":"因為這個案子是延續性的也不是說哪一位院長"},{"start":9066.704,"end":9094.711,"text":"沒有啦 我知道啦 這不可思議嘛明天不可行李行 還是完全事先不評估其實是說真的做了多少 剛才疫情還是說剛才什麼樣的特殊的原因 造成我想疫情是一個很重要的關鍵啦但是因為當初的整個評估的話沒有找文化部 沒有找教育部共同參與的話基本上來講的話 以故宮"},{"start":9096.351,"end":9119.236,"text":"單獨一個單位之旅然後要去那你同期時要停的時侯 想說這個界階如果繼續延續 再找這兩步做下去後續的部分 繼續延續這個界階 覺得有什麼想法跟委員報告就是我們有跟那個文化部跟那個博物館協會去討論因為時空環境不同 時空環境不同就是說"},{"start":9120.896,"end":9141.186,"text":"過去保管卡 希望脫為保管卡的方式然後用優惠減價連鎖的方式去增加人力但是現在的話就是文化部有文化幣然後那個什麼老人有老人福利優惠你都這樣喔 一行要三十四千萬啦一行要三十四千萬啦這都人民的費過錢啦 有人是要比較心中的啦"},{"start":9142.086,"end":9149.053,"text":"所以我們現在就希望說他跟我們現在並沒有要我們現在就是讓他跟那個博物館協會合作我們的藍衣 現在這個夾著不好看啦你有什麼新的推薦的價位嗎"},{"start":9164.599,"end":9176.957,"text":"故宮南苑基本上來講的話他越來越好並沒有說越來越好他的展覽的能量然後跟推廣教育的能量都持續增加那當然我們做了很多"},{"start":9184.113,"end":9186.736,"text":"評論2000吧他可以更好啦我知道 但是因為當初的規劃"},{"start":9198.749,"end":9215.006,"text":"讓更多的人甚至讓北部的人都願意說不要來幫他可以議員如果想要來攔他看你有沒有想過就把故鄉裡面的電腫裡面過去沒有電腫過比較有科幻性比較高的這些東西直接就對攔他性來覺得有這種機會"},{"start":9217.889,"end":9243.527,"text":"跟委員報告這一次的江戶胡適之美胡適會就是因為在南宴的展覽所以它就會引發很大的效果那另外的話百年宴慶的話我們把故宮的鎮宴三寶換寬的西山行李圖三件大的作品到南宴去展覽我想這個也會讓南宴的那個參觀的民眾更提升是支撐而已沒有等金"},{"start":9246.781,"end":9265.142,"text":"另外一個的話當然跟委員報告因為現在我們在南苑的話蓋第二展覽館第二展覽館的話是國保館未來的話那個龍藏經的話會整個在那邊常駐我想這個對南苑來講的話也是一個非常重要的一個改變跟南部人的信用比較接近就對了"},{"start":9267.338,"end":9289.919,"text":"這樣我怎麼想要來看 現在就可以去看了看委員安排的時間 我跟你說不足啦 我跟你拜託一下啦南部齁 嘉義這裡 台南這裡 他不說東紀市的故鄉我跟阿扁的總統說那個熱番地 你台南人出身我問全台灣的人 大家都建議 如果故鄉南美最佳的地方在哪裡 大家都說台南"},{"start":9290.74,"end":9314.669,"text":"沒辦法 那時候有時候要檢討 當館長戴槍投靠 所以就要把這個寶貝來放在那裡你們要多用一點心 好不好對於藍營喔 把生育後 你就要把錢花給大漢啦有有有 我們現在 譬如說上個禮拜我們也連結藍部的各個不同的單位 辦理協助研討會都是要提升整個藍部的一個能量謝謝 信仰眾委員支持"},{"start":9320.434,"end":9321.715,"text":"院長請回座我們休息5分鐘"},{"start":9632.403,"end":9645.361,"text":"好 我們現在繼續開會接下來請陳秀寶召委謝主席 請院長好 有請院長"},{"start":9649.822,"end":9677.527,"text":"趙慧照院長好院長我們今年的總預算因為受到這個在野黨大幅的這個刪減其實很多部會呢在業務執行上都受到非常大的影響故宮也是深受其害這一次呢我們故宮我們的文物我們的國寶到捷克其實捷克這個國家對我們非常的友善也非常的重視他們為了順利能夠讓那個翠意白菜外展在去年他們完成了司法免扣押的這個法律修正案"},{"start":9678.287,"end":9696.566,"text":"在這個展覽開幕式上其實捷克很多重要的政府官員也都有出席像參議院的院長韋德齊之前來過台灣的這個眾議院院長艾達莫瓦還有文化部環境部的首長以及捷克國家博物館的館長盧卡齊都親自出席"},{"start":9699.168,"end":9718.129,"text":"館長還以我們的翠玉白菜是跟盧浮宮的蒙娜麗莎是同等的地位這樣來相比可見是對我們是非常的重視而且館長有表達說在我們故宮展結束之後他會親自的壓陣將我們的國寶送回來我們台灣"},{"start":9719.778,"end":9746.852,"text":"所以可見這次捷克外展是非常重要他們是非常重視的但是故宮卻因為預算刪減的緣故導致我們只有四位人員出席包含蕭院長 副院長及兩位部展人員這麼重要的一個展竟然只有四個人可以去其中我們正副院長的住宿機票費是捷克國家博物館支應的"},{"start":9747.432,"end":9772.875,"text":"那我們兩位部長人員其中一位的所有費用那另外一位的部分旅費是用故宮的贊助款來支應也就是說故宮的預算沒有辦法支應這一場這麼重要的文物外交計畫這真的是非常離譜非常糟糕的事情喔院長我們接下來還有一個法國的外展我們會不會也遇到這樣的狀況會不會有預算不足的這個狀況"},{"start":9775.259,"end":9782.53,"text":"根文報告就是基本上來講的話國際文化交流屆展單位他們負擔"},{"start":9785.876,"end":9804.822,"text":"運輸保險 然後部轉人力跟部分的開幕的貴賓這是一個常態當然這中間的話所以這是一個領域對 這是一個領域 這是一個常態當然沒有規定說一定是幾位而是去衡量整個工作的一個狀態"},{"start":9806.022,"end":9821.053,"text":"那這一次的話有兩位人演用故宮自己本身的贊助款是因為延時的展覽的時候沒有估計到數位展所以這一次的話有數位展見所以數位展見的話基本上來講的話他就"},{"start":9822.467,"end":9836.287,"text":"額外的人力需求所以我們就是有兩位的數位展的一個策展人員然後用我們自己的贊助經費去所以會用到贊助經費也表示說是本來的預算是不足的才需要這樣來支應"},{"start":9838.918,"end":9862.507,"text":"也不盡然因為原來並沒有估列那個數位展那當然就是說如果在沒有刪減的情況之下故宮的確可以用我們的年度預算來支應那接下來法國的外展呢一樣如果以主管級的話會有禮遇那如果一起出去的這些助理或是助理研究員的話"},{"start":9862.947,"end":9890.763,"text":"目前的话就是布展人员有五位这是由画房那边支援的那当然就是说我跟副院长是开幕也是由他们来支援的这以法国的状况是这样反而去法国的话是会有五位布展人员在在对那个节课的时候一样有布展人员只是说他们先押印过去布完展以后他们就先回来"},{"start":9891.468,"end":9906.606,"text":"那就是開幕當天就是政府院長他們就已經回來了他們已經回來了那在跨國的時候其實也是一樣就是不展人員先去不好展然後他們就回來然後我跟副院長的話會去參加那個開幕對"},{"start":9907.927,"end":9918.678,"text":"故宮作為世界級的博物館如果說我們因為預算遭到大幅刪減的緣故導致我們業務沒有辦法很妥善的執行我們有一個這麼難得到國外展覽的機會如果因為預算不足沒有辦法廣為宣傳這對我們這麼難得的這個文化外交真的是一個很大的損失"},{"start":9926.986,"end":9941.274,"text":"所以在這邊真的要呼籲在元委員我們要了解行政機關的難處不要一再的為難為台灣做事為國家做事的人那這次院長您到捷克也有邀請捷克的文物來台灣展出那目前有正式的規劃嗎"},{"start":9942.948,"end":9969.452,"text":"我們討論很久因為捷克自從跟我們有密切交流之後他們其實很多的展覽活動提出怎麼樣更好的就更高端的一個展品來我們還在討論在展覽結束之後Lucas館長會押印文物回台的時候那時候的話我們會有一個正式的討論定案就是展覽的主題方向跟大概的內容"},{"start":9970.169,"end":9990.776,"text":"所以要等到我們的展出結束館長也來到我們台灣的時候再一起來討論好那接下來我要請教院長這次翠玉白菜在捷克展出期間有多個行政機關受到威脅性包括像陸委會文化部總統府那內容大多是針對翠玉白菜的安全進行相關的恐嚇威脅"},{"start":9991.996,"end":10015.017,"text":"那請問院長我們有沒有掌握到說去了解這些祭出恐嚇性威脅性的是同一個人還是不同的人犯案這目前我們有訊息嗎依照恐嚇的信件的話他基本上來講的話他就是用那個跳島的方式所以有從加拿大有從不同的地區所以我們沒有辦法去"},{"start":10017.77,"end":10041.36,"text":"證實是不是同一個人但是捷克跟台灣雙方的話我們就透過管道在監控這件事情因為故宮你們這邊也有回覆說已經延長緊急應變的措施那也有請捷克加強展覽的安全維護那故宮目前跟捷克也建立雙方的溝通管道請問這樣的管道是隨時有狀況可以保持是暢通的嗎"},{"start":10043.312,"end":10060.287,"text":"這個管道隨時暢通因為現在通聯的方式有很多種所以隨時有問題的話不管是用電話或是用視訊的話馬上都可以處理那麼後續在展覽完畢之後我們相關的維安會不會也有進行這些級別的提升"},{"start":10062.287,"end":10075.456,"text":"事實上去捷克的話就是包括去法國的話他們都有保全戒護跟台灣一樣就是說我們文物運輸然後整個運送過程的話都有相當的一個維安措施"},{"start":10076.209,"end":10099.695,"text":"其實翠玉白菜出國出訪真的是很不容易國人覺得這是一件很重要的事情但是同時也會擔心我們翠玉白菜的安全那所以說關於這個部分我也希望說故宮這邊我們要上緊發條對這個安全在維安部分要特別特別的能掌握各種訊息讓我們的翠玉白菜可以安全的回到我們台灣"},{"start":10100.655,"end":10115.971,"text":"那台灣現在透過各種文化的活動進行國際交流包括像文化部外交部那故宮當然也很積極的在國際間做這個交流的這個策展那我們台灣的文化跟我國的國寶可以走進世界"},{"start":10116.451,"end":10133.363,"text":"但現在目前中國是用在國際間強調文化正統性來阻擋我們跟其他國家進行文化交流甚至說我們故宮的藏品一定會到北京展出我想請教院長北京故宮有透露出相關邀展的訊息嗎"},{"start":10136.388,"end":10158.402,"text":"過去好像曾經有過但是在我任內的話並沒有這樣的一個信息那過去的話兩岸的文物的話的確曾經河流像那個富春山基土但是故宮的文物要去北京展覽的話就是因為司法免扣押跟名稱宰屍的問題這個問題的話都沒有辦法解決所以目前的話是並沒有可能性"},{"start":10159.434,"end":10167.906,"text":"部長您覺得中國他在國際間一直強調文化正統這樣子的一個手法會不會影響到我們跟民主國家之間的文化交流"},{"start":10169.778,"end":10197.701,"text":"我想我們的外交處境大家都知道很辛苦所以故宮博焱還是竭盡最大的力量然後把故宮的文物推展出去然後去達成一個跟國外交流的目的但是也不會因為說故宮的文物出去的話就是產生誤解說這是北京故宮因為北京故宮跟台北故宮的話大家都可以分辨得非常清楚"},{"start":10198.001,"end":10209.433,"text":"那院長您說故宮現在也很積極的在跟規劃其他國家的互動跟交流那我們在捷克跟法國的展覽之後有沒有規劃其他國家進行相關的展覽"},{"start":10212,"end":10241.08,"text":"展覽的洽談的話我們一直都在進行之中那因為還沒有明確就是甚至彼此雙方還沒有同意釋放信息之前的話原則上的話我們還是繼續努力好的就是繼續有在規劃那本席也希望說我們故宮在民主國家間的這個進行交流這個文化交流不應該陷入所謂的什麼文化正統的這種論調那聚焦在民主國家間的合作"},{"start":10242.161,"end":10267.84,"text":"這才是我們台灣在國際間不可替代的論點這個部分我也相信故宮在這個立場上剛才院長您的回答我也覺得說是很正向的我們要堅持我們自己本身的立場那外來的這些威脅外來這些恐嚇其實我們有我們自己的一個方式我們去拒絕它我們自己去我們可以守護自己的文物的安全"},{"start":10268.34,"end":10290.888,"text":"那接下來我時間到了但是我跟您提一下關於這個大都會展覽負評比較多的這個部分我希望說我大概講一下那你會後給我一個你們的報告就是在觀展動線不佳展廳狹小那人潮為了拍照駐足在畫前會造成人潮的這個堵塞"},{"start":10291.368,"end":10310.024,"text":"那人潮沒有控管得好排隊的人潮在假日的時候甚至排到二樓來還繞了很多圈再來是一個現場在現場發生的問題畫作投射的燈光不佳造成畫作有陰影那這個部分是在場觀展的民眾直接反映但是沒有得到改善"},{"start":10310.464,"end":10329.314,"text":"所以希望這些相關的這些訊息你們在策展的時候就應該要有這樣子的就是滾動檢討的機制但是並沒有歷史的得到改善所以希望說這個經驗提供你們日後在策展的時候給你們參考就是民眾有這樣子的"},{"start":10329.694,"end":10346.033,"text":"跟我們報告一下燈光的問題的話是當初是那個美方的人員他們自己來調整的當然觀眾反應之後我親自找同仁去處理的話其實燈光基本上來講的話應該說已經改善了沒有後面的那些問題"},{"start":10347.615,"end":10368.728,"text":"因為十一度媒體也把這個作品在大都會博物館展出的情況拿給我們看基本上來講的話它也是有陰影因為印象派的畫框比較厚所以對他們來講的話美方的人員認為說那是正常的可是在台灣的民眾的話基本上我們要求比較高所以這個基本上來講的話就是當時"},{"start":10370.169,"end":10392.328,"text":"有这样的反应之后我们去处理已经调整了动线少的话当然就是动线难的话一方面就是因为人潮太多那因为策展的方式的话也依照美方他们的一个规划所以在合约里面的话如果没有只能他们自己亲自动画所以我们不能动但是我们可以提供意见吗"},{"start":10392.928,"end":10413.802,"text":"對我們有提供意見可是我們盡量就是去疏導人流然後排隊排到樓上的話也是因為人潮太多因為我們不希望說在外面排隊所以讓他就是往二樓三樓上面去排隊基本上來講的話是提供一個觀眾更素素的一個參加環境但是因為人流控管的話因為人潮太多基本上來講的話這是展廳不夠大"},{"start":10418.385,"end":10441.34,"text":"我們可以造成民眾很願意去觀展這是一個好事啦但是對於這樣的動線規劃對於我們整個的這個展場的這個動線跟空間的規劃我想這是一個很重要的參考日後我們有這樣子的展覽的時候我們作為一個依據我們給民眾提供一個比較舒適的一個觀展的感受"},{"start":10441.952,"end":10464.143,"text":"是我們未來的話在展場空間的隔間上面的話我們就會做一個評估就是未來的話原來覺得空間很大可是之後的話展品掛上去觀眾來了以後就覺得太小了太擁擠了好謝謝主席謝謝院長好謝謝陳秀寶召委謝謝院長接下來請葉元之委員質詢"},{"start":10475.236,"end":10495.918,"text":"麻煩請故宮院長好 有請院長葉委員好現在故宮預計要在故宮博物院的大門那邊規劃一個工程新的修復計畫那這個計畫上面也要增加一個大門的入口意向"},{"start":10496.772,"end":10515.16,"text":"據我了解好像你們在今年初的時候今年上半年有送到台北市文化局做審議結果台北市文化局4票同意 11票反對就是沒有通過後來故宮的說法是講說會重新再送 修正後再送目前你們現在的計畫是怎麼樣"},{"start":10517.767,"end":10537.557,"text":"現在計畫的話是跟那個規劃團隊在討論之中因為第一次沒有過然後第二次也沒有過如果第三次沒有過的話可能我們就是要變更計畫來處理整個就變更了就是到時候你們再送就不會長這樣是不是"},{"start":10540.354,"end":10552.041,"text":"會再修正現在的話我們進行我們要求團隊的話進行一個模擬就是說修正的方案然後做一個公開的展示或是網路的調查然後"},{"start":10553.243,"end":10573.008,"text":"看看民眾他們的反應然後在之後再送那個文資集審議因為現在的你現在弄這個意象好像網路上的惡評蠻多的啦有人認為說很像防疫口罩嘛有人認為很像大OK繃而且你坐電梯上來之後直接就擋到原來的故宮的外觀嘛"},{"start":10574.147,"end":10596.327,"text":"我覺得這件事情可能是大家比較介意的啦是 因為它的量體大家會比較介意但是因為這是一個初步設計初步設計對 初步設計只是一個概念因為大家很關心 蠻多人很關心然後我們故宮說實在它並不是一個真的皇宮嘛故宮 顧名思義應該是以前的皇宮但我們的故宮不是以前皇宮啦"},{"start":10597.638,"end":10607.498,"text":"為什麼要叫故宮是因為我們裡面有很多國寶當時政府為了要展示這些國寶儲存這些國寶所以蓋了這個故宮雖然不是真的皇宮"},{"start":10609.096,"end":10634.847,"text":"但是既然叫故宮我認為還是應該要比較像是傳統的皇宮的樣子這是我個人的建議所以你蓋了一個感覺上會擋到原本意象的東西會讓大家覺得不倫不類這個部分您自己參考反正總而言之你們現在感覺上是不會過所以你們可能會做大幅的修正再送聽起來是這樣然後再來故宮除了外觀之外好像裡面的設備"},{"start":10636.388,"end":10659.71,"text":"也被大家批評這是媒體的報導說你們最近在展一個百年展跟北宋有關的很多國內外觀光客都有去看結果一看到故宮裡面的廁所門生鏽然後就批評百年故宮連最基本的廁所維護都做不好"},{"start":10660.558,"end":10681.71,"text":"我不知道為什麼會這樣院長有去了解嗎是只有這一個廁所門嗎還是大部分都是長這樣根文報告這是在故宮一樓的左邊的南側的裡面的一個積電的維修門所以基本上不是廁所門不是廁所門"},{"start":10682.15,"end":10706.511,"text":"不是廁所門那這個的確是因為我們有馬上去檢視然後馬上重新粉刷基本上來講的話這個是故宮疏忽了我們把所有宴期南北宴的所有的廁所然後包括維修空間 維修門我們都檢視過了你說這個民眾有開始討論之後你們立刻就有去重新檢視過對 我們在那有多少門是長得這樣"},{"start":10708.112,"end":10730.757,"text":"就只有這個怎麼那麼巧就一個而已因為它就是廁所裡面的那個機電的維修廁所裡面的機電門對被忽略了是但因為故宮是重要的觀光景點是啊 故宮對 所以每一個角落都要維護我們的廁所在北市的評估裡面我們永遠是優等的就是有這樣的疏漏我們也覺得很抱歉反正現在都已經"},{"start":10732.185,"end":10747.813,"text":"確定好了因為這個看起來應該很久了所以很多網友說是不是故意的因為是百年故宮所以要有歷史的痕跡所以故意要把它留成這樣應該不是沒有 開玩笑完全是疏忽完全是疏忽就對了OK 再來"},{"start":10749.303,"end":10763.545,"text":"我們來看 很多人會從網路上去買故宮的精品這一份是監察院審計部的報告引述故宮自己的調查結果我們發現有一些表現不是很理想"},{"start":10764.446,"end":10785.941,"text":"比如說在112年的時候消費者對於故宮網路商城賣的精品的商品價格的滿意度是低於五成的只有四成五而且在付款方式的便利性也不高其實付款方式應該不至於滿意度這麼低但不知道為什麼只有不到七成"},{"start":10786.681,"end":10802.122,"text":"那這個部分故宮有什麼調整的你們有什麼改進的計畫嗎跟委員報告就是110年111年的話是因為疫情疫情的話網路的需求量高可是大家就沒有去注意到所謂的那個"},{"start":10804.545,"end":10826.095,"text":"評價不高的問題那到了112年疫情恢復以後我們正是這個問題所以113年整個那個網路商城的話就改版所以現在的滿意度113年114年滿意度都八成以上你說商品價格嗎商品價格的話我講的是特定項目"},{"start":10828.086,"end":10854.544,"text":"特定項目商品價格的話我們要再看因為商品價格的話的確故宮的文物的話都被評價說太貴了比較貴這個的確是這個樣子那付款方式呢價格有時候反映價值對不對那付款方式便利這可以調整嗎付款方式便利基本上沒有問題而且我們還設立國內第一個退稅的退稅的的博物館只有故宮第一個退稅那可以有接口支付嗎"},{"start":10857.495,"end":10879.669,"text":"因為接口支付是國人蠻常使用的一種支付方式現在有沒有接口支付接口支付目前沒有我們去你們商城的付款頁面去擷取的就沒有接口支付所以可能有人會認為說他比較常用的沒有機會用到就會覺得不夠便利性"},{"start":10880.049,"end":10907.535,"text":"是 這個部分我們可以再來評估因為接口之戶的話我們原來也有想要加進來可是因為前一陣子有一些升評所以我們就又把它停住了有一些什麼有一些接口之戶有一些負評 負面的負評對 負評所以你們沒有要用就對了我們會再評估會再評估 對便利性再提高然後再來像我之前都非常關心國保的保存"},{"start":10909.736,"end":10923.757,"text":"因為剛剛也有非常多委員談到我們現在故宮去捷克參展9月12號到12月31號有展示131件包括翠玉白菜清明上河圖等國寶可是故宮之前也有被"},{"start":10925.312,"end":10943.902,"text":"檢討一件事情就是故宮的文物過去不管是在參觀 策展 修復的開箱的體鑒人員接觸紀錄未曾想死接觸紀錄等於是一個保障當你要做紀錄的時候你會提醒自己在接觸的時候會特別小心可是以前被檢討說接觸紀錄不想死"},{"start":10947.321,"end":10974.133,"text":"我不知道像這一次出去展覽131件有沒有接觸紀錄到時候可不可以提供給委員會讓大家也做一個監督沒有問題因為故宮的進出庫房然後就是說提件然後就是出這些紀錄的話還件的話都會有一個相似的紀錄那再提供給我們最後一個小問題就是那時候故宮院長有抽點文物"},{"start":10976.158,"end":10980.244,"text":"那抽點的盤點期間是101年到111年然後盤點了15894件發現尚未修復的數量有358件實際上修復只有79件比例很低那現在的修復狀況怎麼樣"},{"start":10992.442,"end":11021.01,"text":"公文報告就是文物的經過這樣的一個千百年的歷程裡面當然會有很多就是需要修復的可是如果它狀況穩定的話沒有特殊的用途的時候其實我們並不會把它排列為修復的優先順序因為修復的人力永遠不夠對 人力不夠其實我上個會期就提醒過你你要去跟行政院爭取人力我們爭取11個人沒有通過但是我們自己檢討之後爭取11個都不通過"},{"start":11021.69,"end":11041.227,"text":"為什麼 他的理由是什麼因為總額管制我們自己評估之後我們今年會增加一個用基金聘用的人力明年增加兩個未來的話 如果基金有盈餘的話我們會再增加我覺得國保的保存也是很重要我覺得這部分大家一起努力謝謝謝謝葉元之委員質詢院長請回座"},{"start":11050.051,"end":11063.547,"text":"接下來請吳佩奕委員質詢謝謝主席我請國立故宮博物院蕭宗煌院長請蕭院長"},{"start":11068.905,"end":11094.22,"text":"吳院長 院長好 院長你大概是全台灣唯一要來立法院進行業務報告的館長所以也就是我們國家對於故宮之重視而國人對於故宮之期待所以大家對你們的要求會比較高那我今天有幾個問題要跟院長來討論第一個是呢今年是我們故宮南院的10週年那我們也即將南院要迎來第100萬位的觀眾"},{"start":11096.061,"end":11109.911,"text":"我們的成績其實我覺得相當的不錯南越也有很多的亮點特展八月剛結束有一檔是我們的江戶服飾會特展其實反應相當的熱烈我們總共參觀人數有到達了14萬人累計起來"},{"start":11114.574,"end":11127.208,"text":"不過我看到在網路上因為討論很多其實討論聲量高是好事但民眾有一點反應說覺得好可惜官網展了之後想要去買周邊商品結果發現只有一樣商品可以買院長有這樣的狀況嗎"},{"start":11130.946,"end":11157.767,"text":"的確這個案子始料未及因為展覽是由南宴策劃可是因為行銷在北宴所以對接沒有對接的很好畫冊的部分每次一上架就賣光了文創商品的部分因為主要的重要的紋路很多都是跟日本借產所以並沒有去談商品授權的問題之後我們有根據故宮自由的展品我們開發了20項的品項"},{"start":11160.149,"end":11186.119,"text":"那當然就是說來的比較晚所以這個部分的話未來故宮我也已經責成同仁在監獄會議上面就是說任何一個展覽大的展覽規劃的時候我們都要考慮到就是文創商品的開發的部分每次我們去逛故宮從來沒有空手而歸的一定逛完就很想買周邊商品所以我想這一次這個是有點可惜啦所以未來希望每一次的特展也好我們的展覽都能夠周邊相關的把它規劃好"},{"start":11189.64,"end":11205.751,"text":"那第二點要請教剛剛前面也有委員關心也就是因應羅浮宮失竊案震驚全球那台灣大家也在關心我們故宮的防護安全是不是做得足夠完備剛剛前面有委員說故宮因為院長有提到全台灣唯一備有警犬"},{"start":11207.312,"end":11229.44,"text":"來協助我們安全防護的院館剛剛有委員說4隻可能不夠要不要提升到40隻今天要提升我是贊成但40隻真的太多了但我還是要請教一下關於我們故宮的防護的強化的準備因為副院長有說我們做了三層以上的防護那說明一下我們目前做了哪些的強化的措施呢"},{"start":11232.787,"end":11245.764,"text":"當然對油管的一個情況的話我們不便評估但是故宮第一個是我們重要的基礎國土設施所以我們在國土安全單位的一個防護之下的話我們"},{"start":11246.545,"end":11272.539,"text":"是列管然後就要做配合那個整個國土安全的演習那另外的話三層的話就是外圍 外圍的話就是驗區要進入驗區的話就鋼燒可以管制那第二層的話就是建物 建物的話結構安全然後包括外圍的陽台玻璃這個東西的話我們都有都有安全的監視系統然後跟那個玻璃碎裂的防護另外的話是展廳 展廳裡面的話當然"},{"start":11273.599,"end":11291.05,"text":"展櫃是一個防護 另外的話我們展場的話有服務人員就是有諸位警保全不定期的一個形式這方面的話都是加強溫度的那至於演練的部分的話 我們最近規劃陸續在進行就有關安全的演練"},{"start":11291.71,"end":11313.297,"text":"那當然南苑的話 現在是因為南苑有二館的工程他有一個 譬如說有一個大型的機器那這個大型的機器的話 當然就是說如果進入到那個展館的宴區的話 基本上來講如果沒有經過唾棄的話 不可能 甚至就是說他沒有必要過去所以這部分的話 我們都會強化 都會加強注意"},{"start":11315.317,"end":11333.326,"text":"我們的這個措施相關都來加強那你們的警犬也是從原來是以巡邏為主你們現在把它增加了要來這個徵收暴獵物這樣的任務嗎過去我講過過去在整個科技徵航還不夠"},{"start":11335.175,"end":11361.621,"text":"完整的時候是有需要用到景淺去做增防可是因為現在的話雖然故宮有一個延期的管制但基本上常態性是一個開放延期所以早上的話民眾就可以來散步所以用景淺基本上來講的話做一種攻擊性的一個防衛基本上現在已經比較少了都是用用科技來增防那景淺的話就轉為一個爆裂物的偵查跟那個"},{"start":11362.961,"end":11387.87,"text":"一般的刑犬因為因為因為動物還是有比人更敏銳的地方或是說那個科技沒有辦法達到的地方所以這是一個相輔相成暴獵物的徵收確實是工作知青犬他們的這個特色這到現在都很難取代我才剛去台中參訪這個我們關務署的緝毒犬培訓中心現在我們故宮北院裡面有四隻警犬"},{"start":11388.59,"end":11414.035,"text":"那南院呢有沒有配置因為每一個警犬都要配置一位零犬員然後如果是說有沒有規劃未來要在南院來配置警犬未來南院的話管成立的時候我們會爭取人力然後配置一般來講的話如果四隻是一個小隊的話他是會比較完整因為原來也是想說先量一隻或是兩隻院長我就是要沒錯要特別提醒你"},{"start":11414.195,"end":11437.794,"text":"因為我們工作群也是有實行時間上限的動物的福祉跟他的條件你們還是要去考慮所以你們現在北部四支然後我聽說北部四支可能中間還要來支援南院然後這個還有牽涉到輪班的問題所以請你們要趕快我想南院的警犬要趕快來加速來配置然後我們在執勤的時候也要請你們去注意相關的情況"},{"start":11438.755,"end":11461.586,"text":"那第三個我要來請教的是從我們疫情之後一直在統計故宮來院的人潮以及他們從國外旅客的話從哪些地方來那韓國一直是我們最大宗的旅客所以我有跟你們關心過我們的韓語導覽人員這個人數非常之少甚至有時候沒有那目前我們有做了哪些規劃加強嗎"},{"start":11465.926,"end":11489.558,"text":"韓語的志工導覽基本上來講的話的確是故宮一個最大的訓導你們現在是有韓語的語音導覽導覽手冊 韓文都有但是人 志工怎麼樣是招募不到嗎有沒有跟相關單位來討論合作現在只有一位我已經責成同仁我們想找譬如說像政大跟文化大學還有文藻"},{"start":11490.839,"end":11517.295,"text":"他的外学院里面有韩文我们请他们来合作共同讨论怎么样让这个韩语的导览可以可以上线那另外的话因为韩国的旅客增加最主要是团客团客的话他们都自己发展成为一个就说他们自行导览因为韩国的团的话基本上来讲的话他们自己都会配一个导览员所以在这方面的话就说虽然我们力有未待但是"},{"start":11518.897,"end":11530.29,"text":"好像還沒有變成是一個很大的問題但這個部分的話是我們警訊我們要來處理沒錯 因為我看到民間旅行者像Klook KKday他們其實都有推出就是專屬你們故宮的這個韓語的導覽所以代表這個需求是在的"},{"start":11534.295,"end":11558.13,"text":"那我們現在每年一直在看嘛我們每年目標的參訪人數其實都一直沒有達標所以我想既然韓國很明顯是一個潛力市場我們應當是可以針對韓國旅客韓文的友善相關的措施可以再做更完善一點仔細的這個規劃來去吸引更多的人潮我們會來強化好謝謝院長謝謝主席謝謝佩儀委員質詢院長請回座"},{"start":11562.148,"end":11575.657,"text":"接下來請鍾嘉賓委員質詢鍾嘉賓 鍾嘉賓委員不在接下來請洪孟凱委員質詢質詢時間4分鐘 謝謝好 主席謝謝麻煩請故宮院長請院長"},{"start":11584.346,"end":11607.802,"text":"好 院長好委員長院長今年故宮百年本席也非常重視所以百年願慶那一天本席也親自前往那當然很多人都會講是說這個羅浮宮看到這樣的一個失竊案件那故宮真的一定要小心跟注意那我比較直接的想請教到目前為止我們有沒有去了解說羅浮宮到底為什麼這一次被失竊的主要原因是什麼"},{"start":11609.573,"end":11636.086,"text":"當然有 可是我們不便公開來評論我們透過什麼樣的管道有跟這邊掌握因為其實我想這個是一個就是說如果說有安全機密上的考量的話你可以不便評論但是我覺得最重要的是我們要看到別人的問題我們來思考是說他們有這樣的一個狀況那我們真的要看到不足的地方就改進避免這樣的一個憾事在我們這個發生我們都不希望發生"},{"start":11637.237,"end":11651.609,"text":"所以我們有沒有確實去了解是說到底為什麼羅浮宮在這一次他有被竊盜的一個狀況對於這個評析的話我們當然有跟委員我們可以給委員可是不便公開的去評論油管的狀況好"},{"start":11653.47,"end":11671.903,"text":"那其中媒體上有報導其實主要是在於是監視器的實腳以及人員的配置還有安全維護的比例過低這是媒體已經有公開的一個報導的部分那監視器的實腳我想先確認一下到目前為止我們故宮全院來講我們監視器是不是有百分之百的一個掌握"},{"start":11673.154,"end":11693.086,"text":"故宮的監視器我們強調就是希望做到無死角可是任何的安全防護的話都還有強化的空間所以目前還是有死角沒有死角你剛不是講說安全強化還有空間對 晚上約會的話一定跑不掉一定會被遭到"},{"start":11695.496,"end":11716.366,"text":"開玩笑好笑嗎不好笑對不起我的意思是說因為故宮的監視器的我再跟你講說現在世界發生了一個重大的竊案過去沒有人想過說羅浮宮會有珠寶被盜然後故宮到底現在我們的監視器有沒有死角"},{"start":11717.571,"end":11737.553,"text":"你跟我講男歡女愛約會我們監視器我是強調說故宮監視器的佈線基本上來講的話好 請在會後給本席我們現在故宮的一個監視就相關的一個資料好不好可以公開的請讓本席知道第二 安全維護比例過低我們現在一年的預算有多少編列在安全維護上"},{"start":11743.8,"end":11769.232,"text":"因為預算的編列的話就是這邊的話是總共9500多萬那當然這個所謂的9000多萬占故宮的比例來講的話我們的預算比例的話當然如果是用6分之1左右就差不多不到20%嘛"},{"start":11771.47,"end":11787.144,"text":"對不對那不到20%以現在羅浮宮羅浮宮講說他一年我看了一個資料一年羅浮宮比例其實是比我們他應該將近10億10億對照他的遊客以及對他的量體跟我們這比例來講我們的維護有沒有要提升的地方"},{"start":11789.264,"end":11814.143,"text":"當然要可以提升當然要提升這個統計的基礎要看看到底他的計算所謂的安全維護的話是在哪一部分如果包括所有的人力的部分的話當然那個比例就會提高很多是所以本席才會提醒就既然已經有一個實驗組了那我們相對來講我們要做到滴水不漏不能有這樣的一個事情發生在故宮這一點請院長記在心裡該檢討要檢討還有第三"},{"start":11818.926,"end":11841.198,"text":"其實本席也看到現在1到8月樂門博物館排行我想你應該也有看到我肯定故宮的同仁的努力跟這次的願慶我也覺得辦得很好那個五碼圖我可以看到我非常感動但現在很真實的數字1到8月樂門博物館排行前三名"},{"start":11842.534,"end":11855.818,"text":"第一名也跟我關了當時我在嘉義當文化局長的時候我們就把那個院子給設立下來嘉義勢力博物館第二名佛光山佛陀紀念館第三名中正紀念堂故宮排到第幾名"},{"start":11859.861,"end":11876.01,"text":"故宮跳來跳去有時候七有時候八甚至會到九滿意嗎不滿意但是我跟委員報告因為各個博物館或是文化機構他們的統計基礎不一樣故宮的話是用售票跟那個"},{"start":11877.051,"end":11901.601,"text":"跟那個電子監控的方式對 售票或是免費像嘉義勢力博物館它可能是免費不用門票它有門票它有部分的部分它是需要門票但是我講的是說門票高低也是有一個落差可是在重點是過去大家講到來台灣看故宮 看中華文物這些都是我們應該可以更加行銷宣傳的部分我只講一點"},{"start":11902.793,"end":11928.298,"text":"院長在你心目中現在故宮博物院在全世界排名我們到底以前我們講說我們跟羅浮宮跟大都會博物館跟大英博物館並駕齊驅四大博物館我們有沒有這個氣魄跟這樣子的一個雄心我想增排名的話是沒有辦法去增排名因為現在大的博物館越蓋越大所以那個大小的問題是另外包括說"},{"start":11930.786,"end":11946.053,"text":"包括說這一個月文物最大的新聞是什麼全世界大埃及博物館20年的籌備10億美金的建設到最後落成39個國家的元首前往"},{"start":11946.733,"end":11966.247,"text":"為什麼故宮博物院要做那個所謂的新故宮計畫的原因也是因為我們希望說在整個展勝能量跟空間優化上面都可以提升院長如果有雄心壯志或說真的我們要努力計畫出來我們不會有反對就像過去本席一直也是教育文化委員會委員但"},{"start":11966.687,"end":11985.15,"text":"本席要提的是今天業務報告主席站起來了但本席要提的真的是業務報告見為知著如果說從一個院慶我們行政部門行政院院長沒有到總統沒有到然後到我們現在"},{"start":11987.267,"end":12000.717,"text":"讨论这些部分你跟我讲男欢女爱我真的没有看到你有意愿或是有雄心想要努力为故宫争取过去光荣的感觉我跟您算旧事但我对事不对人"},{"start":12001.755,"end":12019.831,"text":"我真的希望院長可以好好的努力加油也做多一點表率給我們故宮所有同仁看我還是肯定故宮但我希望故宮能夠做更好謝謝委員的指教謝謝洪孟侃委員質詢院長請回座接下來請王洪威委員質詢"},{"start":12021.485,"end":12031.272,"text":"王宏威 王宏威委員不在請楊瓊英委員質詢楊瓊英 楊瓊英委員不在請謝依鳳委員質詢謝依鳳 謝依鳳委員不在請蔡易瑜委員質詢"},{"start":12047.964,"end":12051.152,"text":"好謝謝主席我們是不是有請故宮院長委員長"},{"start":12058.895,"end":12082.475,"text":"院長早 今年五月的時候我們一起在故宮南院這邊針對國保館的上樑典禮那天也是非常的熱鬧我想要請教院長的是說現在整個南院二期上樑之後現在整個工程的進度是否有符合你們的標準期待跟標準"},{"start":12083.848,"end":12096.698,"text":"現在的工程進度的話大概48到年底的話可以到5成跟預定的工期來講的話大概稍微落後一點多"},{"start":12097.631,"end":12116.516,"text":"些微落後這個供期部分還是希望可以趕快再把它補足因為整個南院現在對於國保館是充滿期待我想要再請教院長未來整個國保館的規劃因為我們知道他重視的是在國保的一個修復"},{"start":12117.516,"end":12132.641,"text":"那南院現在應該是說整個故宮現在針對未來國保館的啟用大概在後年就會啟用那我們現在有什麼早期的規劃嗎可能就是說國保修復這一塊到底未來要怎麼呈現給大家來看呢"},{"start":12135.087,"end":12159.917,"text":"南苑的話最主要是有一個國保廳然後有一個數位國保廳另外的話有一個庫房那另外的話就是有一個修復室未來是一個修復中心所以在二館的話未來可以看到可見式的庫房就是你可以看到庫房後廠的一個狀況然後可見式的修復室你可以看修復的那個模擬的一個狀況"},{"start":12160.697,"end":12177.854,"text":"那這些修復師的人才要怎麼進用修復的人才的話當然就是在南苑的修復中心成立之後北苑會有人員去支援那南苑那邊的話會有兩個常駐的未來人力的話我們還是會視情況增加"},{"start":12178.454,"end":12205.679,"text":"那此外的話我們跟那個台南藝術大學的古物博物館跟古物修復中心跟那個政修大學我們都有簽訂那個合作的備忘錄未來的話我們會希望說故宮博物院南院的修復是成為他們的終極站他們畢業的學生的話可以進入到故宮的修復中心你現在說的就是我期待的我們南部有很多藝術大學甚至我們在地新港就有一家藝術高中"},{"start":12209.14,"end":12232.612,"text":"這些早願意投入藝術的這些人才未來我覺得就是我們南院整個國寶修復的未來人才可以來禁用的一個所在所以如果早一些你們現在用NOU讓他知道說我可以去開始培養人才新港藝術高中看能不能也加入我們故宮南院未來在人才培育端"},{"start":12233.212,"end":12247.891,"text":"讓他們也有這樣的一個機會我覺得院長這都是男院可以來做的事情我們跟新港藝術高中基本上來講也有簽訂合作備忘錄我們有一些合作的案子然後就是在進行中"},{"start":12248.671,"end":12257.279,"text":"好 期待那我對南苑 我老實說我剛才看到我們的同事 我們這個楊蓋森的他不是台議員 台議員 議員就可以亂批評的我們故宮南苑在我們家裡是已經幾十年事實上這個參觀的人數破百萬今年有破百萬嗎"},{"start":12271.931,"end":12299.902,"text":"前天破百萬 今年也是可以破百萬嘛前兩年是都差一點點 前一年好像差四千人啦 有破百萬的有這裡的參觀所 主人就是有人要來看 怎麼可以讓他說什麼故宮南苑 讓他這樣說到一文不達去啦 不然我要打我們故宮南苑這裡 剛好彭子城處長在後面 最近有一些展覽"},{"start":12301.323,"end":12313.547,"text":"哇 大排長龍 包括這個服飾會 服飾會的展覽 哇 很成功的我真的看到說 哇 這樣真的人排隊 要入口要入味是要排隊的最近都有這個 用這個導覽員 有用林志玲他的娃娃音都有這個晉級的巨人 他的這個聲優 叫做這個韋玉貴"},{"start":12327.112,"end":12334.734,"text":"他在那個晉級巨人那個主角艾連的聲音他的聲音來做這個導覽的一個聲音我覺得這個很有創意啊這實在很讚啦這點我真的要告訴大家大家按個讚很棒"},{"start":12344.757,"end":12367.152,"text":"跟委員報告因為今年剛好南部碰到三個颱風如果那個三個颱風影響讓那個遊客就斷掉了要不然的話那個人數還會再增加所以人數會增加啦但是我剛講的就是說這一些除了故宮國寶的一個演出之外我們可以再融合一些像現在用了林志玲當作華語的聲優"},{"start":12369.994,"end":12382.065,"text":"晉級的巨人艾連的聲優是日語的聲優還有韓語的聲優未來可能也可以再把客語的導覽我們也來找一個比較好的人來做我們的聲優我覺得整個故宮是隨著時代故宮不是國寶而已它也隨著時代的進步AI的導入剛剛也有很多委員去講到了"},{"start":12393.214,"end":12417.27,"text":"事實上故宮導入AI之後也可以再創造更多的文創商品讓故宮不是來參觀而已來故宮是一個Fashion可以買到很多好東西的地方這樣好不好好 這一次的甲子萬年的故宮鎮宴三寶到南宴去展覽的話我們就有意先去規劃文創商品所以這一次的話也趕得上"},{"start":12418.212,"end":12428.363,"text":"好 這文創商品就是符合年輕人的軌道我想一定會賣掉很好的 好不好好 加油謝謝委員謝謝蔡益瑜委員質詢 院長請回座今天登記質詢委員均已發言完畢"},{"start":12438.24,"end":12459.674,"text":"關於今天會議作如下決定報告及詢答完畢委員所提書面質詢或相關資料列入記錄並刊登公報對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆部分請相關機關盡速以書面答覆報告委員會今天議程處理完畢現在散會謝謝各位"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}