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的落差"},{"start":56.195,"end":82.097,"text":"那另外也有一篇新聞我相信你們也看到了是前兩天教師團體所開的他就說包括老師除了備課之外第一堂課還要先確認上面有沒有上面交辦的政策要宣導有時候要根據永續發展目標啊幫忙量樹高啊計算碳排啊回應明帶所知等等所以老師確實肩負了很多跟教學無關的行政工作然後我這邊"},{"start":83.919,"end":97.828,"text":"具體提出一個我認為教育部可以減量如果教育部可以做到這件事情的話我相信老師會很有感就是減少一些不必要的延期因為我知道只要"},{"start":98.689,"end":127.268,"text":"我們社會當中發生什麼重大事件呢然後教育部就會發文然後叫各個學校的老師去做研習比如說有出現死亡車禍就要做道安的研習然後之前因為有老師親生嘛也有老師有疑似有親生念頭所以當時也要老師們去做研習然後做比如說自殺的研習啊或者是去做心理健康的研習這些研習實際上"},{"start":129.049,"end":153.763,"text":"讓很多老師覺得浪費時間而且也沒有辦法達到效果我的理解是他有一些是線上研習點開來看然後就一個人講話然後點兩個小時結束其實你說他有在聽嗎他也沒有在聽但是因為你這個有KPI嘛所以他必須要做這個動作然後特別是針對有一些導師啦我遇到很多導師跟我反應說他一整天的時間都被塞滿"},{"start":154.744,"end":164.077,"text":"那個次長你想像一下一個導師早上七點多就到班上去然後就學生陸續來然後在課程當中他要上課沒有"},{"start":165.049,"end":186.85,"text":"沒有課的時候他要備課中午吃飯的時候要陪同學吃一樣午餐然後一整天一整天從七點多到他離開學校所有的時間都被塞滿那你說這樣導師他哪有多的時間可以去延續所以這個延續的部分除了法定的規定法律規定一定要做的之外像我知道有些性平的"},{"start":187.631,"end":202.491,"text":"或者環境那個有法律規定其他這一種突如其來式的延期是不是可以減少我想這個延期的部分低限的我們是不是請那個署長來了解一下"},{"start":205.084,"end":232.655,"text":"謝謝委員您提到的確是我們四大項的一項我們會照委員的意思來處理、檢討會照委員的意思來檢討、處理您說要檢討、檢討、研習是不是對譬如說我們現在是留下盡量是法定的才一定要其他的盡量不要去勉強老師第二點如果太遠的地方就線上不要勉強老師又要下山或是從海邊過來集中的地方研習所以研習的部分其實委員講得都很好我們會照委員這個方向謝謝"},{"start":233.615,"end":261.584,"text":"OK 那個署長大概什麼時候會有一個辦法出來 減少延期這個這一個可能要定成辦法 要有授權的依據但是這個不用 我們用行政指導就可以再繼續處理在兩週內就可以再處理了之前是有發過 可是今天委員提醒的我們再強化一下 兩週內好 謝謝署長然後第二有關於國民教育法 我自己的提案是針對校園安全跟"},{"start":262.99,"end":284.311,"text":"希望能夠輔導人力盡量專責化主要是這兩個重點那校園安全我看到今天教育部的書面報告的回文是說兩件事情你們已經有針對校園安全訂出很多辦法出來比如說維護校園安全實施要點校園安全防護注意事項等等強化校園防護機制實施計畫"},{"start":285.552,"end":309.239,"text":"感覺上好像教育部認為你們這些辦法定下去之後對於校園安全已經做得很好了可是實際上這個市長您的感覺怎麼樣因為現在的校園安全的問題真的非常複雜不僅是有幫派的介入尤其是現在很多學生都被吸收成為車手然後還有毒品的問題"},{"start":310.379,"end":329.49,"text":"那非常多的問題那再結合就是老師現在也沒什麼管教權老師也不太能夠管所以校園安全現在問題很嚴重那這些你們釘釘的法律我覺得已經不服十一很多已經不服十一了那包括行政院政務委員紀連城自己都講了嘛"},{"start":330.438,"end":354.367,"text":"他要推第五級保全就是鼓勵退休的軍警回到校園來協助處理不管是像毒品或者其他比較重大的治安的問題那所以我自己還是認為說校園安全入法是有必要那這其中也有牽涉到人力啦我看到教育部裡面的回文裡面也是有提到說114年已經推動"},{"start":357.717,"end":377.422,"text":"補助地方政府辦理國民中學政治學務人力計畫那這個部分其實這一兩年我一直在講高中是六個班就一個校安人員國中現在是六十個班才一個校安人員但市長我問你"},{"start":378.973,"end":384.343,"text":"你覺得校安的問題學校校園複雜的問題國中難道沒有比高中來的複雜嗎國中所面對到的校安問題難道沒有比高中嚴重嗎"},{"start":390.619,"end":409.916,"text":"我們其實也是從這個補助的計畫去引導啦因為高中以下當然高中我們這個比例是定定的這個標準那國中當然也有需要啦國中我們也是用補助的方式當然希望現在就是現在我知道我為了自己覺得有必要我覺得用補助的方式很好"},{"start":410.356,"end":425.726,"text":"但是問題就是高中是六個班就一個校安人員國中是六十個班一個校安人員人數的比例差太多了這不如我們來檢討對 不用檢討啦就直接補助就好了我們現在也有補助計畫啦就是來新的嗎對"},{"start":427.751,"end":444.142,"text":"應該115年了謝謝委員那之前您提到的時候我們在114就實施了增加了633人那委員在提醒之後我們也持續提高像這個學年會再增加230人給完中的部分那我應該還是覺得按照比例"},{"start":444.682,"end":466.933,"text":"是不是可以像高中那樣把那個規格再降高一點提高一點這些因為涉及到地方政府一起來努力那我們前面一波已經努力下一波會照委員這個方向的確我們也覺得國中還是要持續強化這講很久了啦這個講非常久了所以委員我們就照這個方向就有一波一波繼續往上加"},{"start":467.253,"end":494.874,"text":"那我上次有提醒嘛反正現在行政院也認為要推第五級保全那不管是不是最後叫第五級保全那既然行政院想做教育部可以跟行政院要預算嘛如果他想做這個事情的話只是說我們不要叫第五級保全我們爭取校安人員那校安人員就是學校行政一環嘛他可以比如說跟校長啊其他行政員一起努力把校園安全問題搞好了而不是說好像一個校外單位什麼第五級保全進來做調查的我覺得"},{"start":495.635,"end":512.916,"text":"但既然做調查可能大家會有點顧慮但如果是多一個校園人員我覺得大家都會支持所以部長跟行政院增加校園人員的方向然後剛剛有提到115年因為我最近有收到很多陳情案各個蠻多不同縣市都有"},{"start":515.078,"end":542.625,"text":"說一億五的辦法好像沒有下來預算沒有下來所以原先的校安人員就是所謂的創新能力他們擔心說是不是沒有延續不知道署長知道這個事我請署長來回答謝謝委員我們校安人員我們是用每學年這樣處理在七月底以前會核定完成並同今年增加的兩百三十校"},{"start":544.55,"end":556.407,"text":"我說有一些我陸陸續續有收到一些陳情然後他們講說好像擔心擔心是不是115年的辦法沒有下來"},{"start":558.1,"end":576.193,"text":"不會啦 有沒有絕對不會因為這個是非常重要的教育階段並且我們也會用隨到隨省不會第一個縣市要等個三十天第三個全部縣市來才給我們採學隨到隨省的方式趕快協助地方跟學校那為什麼"},{"start":577.509,"end":591.797,"text":"有人會這樣顧慮應該都是學校的人來反映他說參與這次的校園人員聘用日期是到今年的115年的7月31號然後他們得到的消息是說7月31號以後沒有經費給補助為什麼會有這個誤會不會啦不會吧"},{"start":594.398,"end":618.592,"text":"我們4月19不只一個學校的人來訪問這個如果委員有名單我們會私下來幫忙他你要不要宣導一下跟大家宣導一下就是說在7月31號還是會有經費不然消音人員會趕走並且那個錢我們也會準時的撥下去而且我們計畫其實在4月19就已經頒布了是喔 奇怪我跟你講真的收到不只一位你們再去了解一下再讓我們知道OK 好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:12:29.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:12:37.270000+08:00","text":"主席好，麻煩請次長。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-29T11:12:37.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:12:38.210000+08:00","text":"有請次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-29T11:12:38.210000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-29T11:12:39.210000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:12:39.210000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-29T11:12:40.210000+08:00","text":"次長好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:12:38.210000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:12:59.880000+08:00","text":"想跟次長先討論一下有關於行政減量的問題，教育部有發新聞出來說現在已經有針對校園的行政做減量，特別是有針對150項工作全面檢視，然後有104項完成精進或調整，占整體約69%。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:12:59.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:13:11.394000+08:00","text":"看起來好像有所調整，我相信教育部應該是有在做，可是教育部做的跟第一線老師的體感還是有一定的落差。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:13:12.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:13:31.992000+08:00","text":"另外有一篇新聞我相信你們也看到了，這是前兩天教師團體所開的，他就說老師除了備課之外，第一堂課還要先確認有沒有上面交辦的政策要宣導，有時候要根據永續發展目標幫忙量樹高、計算碳排、回應民代索資等等。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:13:33.013000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:13:50.686000+08:00","text":"老師確實肩負了很多跟教學無關的行政工作，我這邊具體提出一個我認為教育部可以減量的，如果教育部可以做到這件事情的話，我相信老師會很有感，就是減少一些不必要的研習！","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:13:53.668000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:14:22.688000+08:00","text":"只要我們社會當中發生什麼重大事件，教育部就會發文叫各學校的老師去研習，比如說出現死亡車禍就要做道安研習；之前因為有老師輕生、也有老師疑似有輕生念頭，所以當時也要老師們去研習，例如自殺的研習或者是心理健康的研習。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:14:22.688000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:14:37.717000+08:00","text":"這些研習實際上讓很多老師覺得浪費時間，而且也沒有辦法達到效果，我的理解是有一些是線上研習，點開來看就有一個人在講話，然後點2個小時結束，其實他有在聽嗎？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:14:37.717000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:14:42.139000+08:00","text":"他也沒有在聽，但是因為這個有KPI，所以他必須要做這個動作。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:14:43.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:15:12.801000+08:00","text":"特別是針對導師，我遇到很多導師跟我反映他一整天的時間都被塞滿，次長，你想像一下，一個導師早上七點多就到班上去，之後有學生陸續來，在課程當中他要上課、沒有課的時候他要備課，中午吃飯的時候要陪同學吃營養午餐，一整天從七點多到他離開學校的所有時間都被塞滿。","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:15:14.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:15:31.121000+08:00","text":"因此像導師哪有多的時間可以去研習，所以關於研習的部分，除了法律規定一定要做的之外，我知道有些性平或者環境的有法律規定，其他這一種突如其來式的研習是不是可以減少，可以嗎？","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-29T11:15:35.487000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:15:38.471000+08:00","text":"關於研習的部分，第一線方面我是不是請署長了解一下？可以。","quality":0.56},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-29T11:15:41.084000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:15:41.564000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-29T11:15:41.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:15:47.327000+08:00","text":"您提到的的確是我們四大項的一項，我們會照委員的意思來檢討、處理、落實。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:15:47.687000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:15:48.987000+08:00","text":"你說減少研習，是不是？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-29T11:15:49.267000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:16:04.833000+08:00","text":"對，我們現在儘量留下法定的才一定要，其他的儘量不要去勉強老師；第二點，如果太遠的地方就用線上，不要勉強老師又要下山或是從海邊過來集中的地方研習。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-29T11:16:05.013000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:16:08.655000+08:00","text":"關於研習的部分，其實委員講得都很好，我們會照委員的這個方向，謝謝。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:16:09.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:16:14.076000+08:00","text":"OK，署長，關於減少研習大概什麼時候會有一個辦法出來？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-29T11:16:14.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:16:22.999000+08:00","text":"這部分訂成辦法要有授權的依據，但是這個不用，我們用行政指導就可以處理，在2週內就可以處理了。好。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-29T11:16:23.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:16:28.941000+08:00","text":"之前有發過，可是今天委員提醒了，我們再強化一下，2週內。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:16:28.941000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:16:29.381000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝，謝謝署長。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:16:30.602000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:16:43.855000+08:00","text":"第二，有關於國民教育法，我自己的提案是針對校園安全跟希望輔導人力專責化，主要是這兩個重點。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:16:44.175000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:17:34.804000+08:00","text":"關於校園安全，我看到今天教育部的書面報告回文表示兩件事情，你們已經有針對校園安全訂出很多辦法，比如說維護校園安全實施要點、校園安全防護注意事項、強化校園防護機制實施計畫等等，感覺上教育部好像認為這些辦法訂下去之後你們對於校園安全已經做得很好了，可是實際上，次長，我不知道您的感覺怎麼樣，因為現在的校園安全問題真的非常複雜，不僅有幫派介入，尤其現在很多學生都被吸收成為車手，然後還有毒品的問題，非常多的問題再結合老師現在也沒什麼管教權，老師也不太能管，所以現在的校園安全問題很嚴重。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:17:35.784000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:18:03.324000+08:00","text":"但是我覺得這些你們訂定的規定有很多已經不合時宜，包括行政院政務委員季連成自己都講了，他要推第五級保全，就是鼓勵退休的軍警回到校園協助處理像毒品或者其他比較重大的治安問題，所以我自己還是認為校園安全入法是有必要的。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:18:04.365000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:18:19.098000+08:00","text":"其中也有牽涉到人力，我看到教育部的回文裡面也是有提到，114年已經推動補助地方政府辦理國民中學增置學務人力計畫……633人。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:18:19.458000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:18:33.202000+08:00","text":"這個部分其實這一、兩年我一直在講，高中是6個班就1個校安人員，國中現在是60個班才1個校安人員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:18:33.322000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:18:39.021000+08:00","text":"次長，我問你，你覺得關於校安的問題、校園複雜的問題，國中難道沒有比高中來得複雜嗎？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:18:39.021000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:18:40.343000+08:00","text":"國中所面對到的校安問題難道沒有比高中嚴重嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-29T11:18:46.619000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:19:00.651000+08:00","text":"我們其實也是從這個補助計畫去引導，高中我們訂定這個比例標準，國中當然也有需要，國中我們也是用補助的方式，當然希望縣市政府……","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:19:02.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:19:14.602000+08:00","text":"我知道，我自己也覺得有必要，我覺得用補助方式很好，但問題就是，高中是6個班就1個校安人員、國中是60個班1個校安人員，人數的比例差太多！","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-29T11:19:15.062000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:19:16.763000+08:00","text":"這個部分我們來檢討。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:19:16.763000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:19:18.965000+08:00","text":"不用檢討，直接補助就好了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-29T11:19:19.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:19:20.766000+08:00","text":"我們現在也有補助計畫。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:19:21.486000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:19:21.726000+08:00","text":"新的嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-29T11:19:23.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:19:23.751000+08:00","text":"應該是115年。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-29T11:19:25.112000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:19:25.753000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-29T11:19:25.953000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:19:37.680000+08:00","text":"之前您提到的時候，我們在114年就實施了，增加了633人；而委員再提醒之後，我們也持續提高，像這個學年會再增加230人給完國中的部分。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-29T11:19:38.841000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:19:55.289000+08:00","text":"委員剛才還是覺得按照比例是不是可以像高中那樣把規格再提高一點，這部分因為涉及到地方政府一起來努力，我們前面一波已經努力，下一波會照委員這個方向，的確我們也覺得國中還是要持續強化。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:19:55.829000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:19:56.850000+08:00","text":"這個講很久了啦！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:19:57.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:19:59.351000+08:00","text":"這個講非常久了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-29T11:19:59.491000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:20:02.913000+08:00","text":"所以委員，我們就照這個方向，就一波一波往上加，好不好？","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:20:03.573000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:20:15.162000+08:00","text":"我上次有提醒，反正現在行政院也認為要推第五級保全，不管最後是不是叫第五級保全，既然行政院想做，教育部可以跟行政院要預算，如果他想做這個事情的話。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:20:15.162000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:20:18.825000+08:00","text":"只是我們不要叫第五級保全，我們爭取校安人員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:20:18.945000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:20:30.454000+08:00","text":"校安人員就是學校行政的一環，比如，他可以跟校長、其他行政人員一起努力把校園安全問題搞好，而不是好像一個校外單位，什麼第五級保全進來做調查。","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:20:32.296000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:20:36.781000+08:00","text":"進來做調查可能大家會有點顧慮，但如果是多一個校安人員，我覺得大家都會支持。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:20:37.602000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:20:39.525000+08:00","text":"所以部長可以多跟行政院爭取……","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-29T11:20:39.665000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:20:40.706000+08:00","text":"對，我們會朝增加校安人員的方向來做。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:20:42.428000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:21:04.802000+08:00","text":"剛剛有提到115年，因為我最近收到很多陳情案，滿多不同縣市都有，說115年的辦法好像沒有下來、預算沒有下來，所以原先的校安人員，就是所謂創新人力，他們擔心是不是沒有延續，署長知不知道這件事？","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-29T11:21:05.982000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:21:06.682000+08:00","text":"我請署長來回答。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-29T11:21:08.182000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:21:08.442000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-29T11:21:09.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:21:18.605000+08:00","text":"校安人員我們是用每學年這樣處理，在7月底以前會核定完成，併同今年增加的230校。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:21:22.092000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:21:32.407000+08:00","text":"我陸陸續續有收到一些陳情，他們擔心是不是115年的辦法沒有下來？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-29T11:21:34.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:21:34.300000+08:00","text":"不會啦，不會。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:21:34.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:21:34.901000+08:00","text":"有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-29T11:21:36.041000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:21:36.422000+08:00","text":"絕對不會。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-29T11:21:36.422000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:21:50.432000+08:00","text":"因為這個是非常重要的教育階段，並且我們也會用隨到隨審，不會第一個縣市要等個30天、全部縣市來才給，我們採隨到隨審的方式，趕快協助地方跟學校。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:21:52.173000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:21:55.250000+08:00","text":"為什麼有人會這樣顧慮？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:21:55.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:21:56.271000+08:00","text":"應該都是學校的人來反映。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:21:56.891000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:22:06.396000+08:00","text":"他說參與這次的校安人員聘用日期到今（115）年7月31號，他們得到的消息是7月31號以後沒有經費可以補助。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:22:06.616000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:22:07.016000+08:00","text":"為什麼會有這個誤會？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-06-29T11:22:07.016000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:22:07.216000+08:00","text":"不會啦。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:22:07.657000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:22:07.777000+08:00","text":"不會嘛！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-29T11:22:10.398000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:22:10.818000+08:00","text":"我們4月19號……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:22:11.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:22:13.460000+08:00","text":"不只一個學校的人來反映。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-29T11:22:13.460000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:22:16.282000+08:00","text":"如果委員有名單，我們會私下來幫忙他，跟他溝通……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:22:16.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:22:17.362000+08:00","text":"你要不要宣導一下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:22:17.602000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:22:23.066000+08:00","text":"跟大家宣導一下在7月31號還是會有經費，不然校安人員會擔心。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-29T11:22:23.246000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:22:30.370000+08:00","text":"並且那個錢我們也會準時撥下去，而且我們計畫其實在4月19號就已經頒布了。是喔？","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:22:30.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:22:33.292000+08:00","text":"奇怪，我跟你講真的收到不只一位，你們再去了解一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-06-29T11:22:33.532000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:22:34.072000+08:00","text":"再讓我們知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-06-29T11:22:34.292000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-06-29T11:22:34.592000+08:00","text":"OK，好，謝謝。謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-29T11:22:35.092000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-29T11:22:36.092000+08:00","text":"請回座。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-06-29T11:22:36.392000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-06-29T11:22:39.249143+08:00","text":"下一位有請郭昱晴委員。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":390,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（11時12分）主席好，麻煩請次長。"],["主席：有請次長。"],["張廖次長萬堅：委員好。"],["葉委員元之：次長好。想跟次長先討論一下有關於行政減量的問題，教育部有發新聞出來說現在已經有針對校園的行政做減量，特別是有針對150項工作全面檢視，然後有104項完成精進或調整，占整體約69%。看起來好像有所調整，我相信教育部應該是有在做，可是教育部做的跟第一線老師的體感還是有一定的落差。另外有一篇新聞我相信你們也看到了，這是前兩天教師團體所開的，他就說老師除了備課之外，第一堂課還要先確認有沒有上面交辦的政策要宣導，有時候要根據永續發展目標幫忙量樹高、計算碳排、回應民代索資等等。","老師確實肩負了很多跟教學無關的行政工作，我這邊具體提出一個我認為教育部可以減量的，如果教育部可以做到這件事情的話，我相信老師會很有感，就是減少一些不必要的研習！只要我們社會當中發生什麼重大事件，教育部就會發文叫各學校的老師去研習，比如說出現死亡車禍就要做道安研習；之前因為有老師輕生、也有老師疑似有輕生念頭，所以當時也要老師們去研習，例如自殺的研習或者是心理健康的研習。這些研習實際上讓很多老師覺得浪費時間，而且也沒有辦法達到效果，我的理解是有一些是線上研習，點開來看就有一個人在講話，然後點2個小時結束，其實他有在聽嗎？他也沒有在聽，但是因為這個有KPI，所以他必須要做這個動作。","特別是針對導師，我遇到很多導師跟我反映他一整天的時間都被塞滿，次長，你想像一下，一個導師早上七點多就到班上去，之後有學生陸續來，在課程當中他要上課、沒有課的時候他要備課，中午吃飯的時候要陪同學吃營養午餐，一整天從七點多到他離開學校的所有時間都被塞滿。因此像導師哪有多的時間可以去研習，所以關於研習的部分，除了法律規定一定要做的之外，我知道有些性平或者環境的有法律規定，其他這一種突如其來式的研習是不是可以減少，可以嗎？"],["張廖次長萬堅：關於研習的部分，第一線方面我是不是請署長了解一下？"],["葉委員元之：可以。"],["彭署長富源：謝謝委員。您提到的的確是我們四大項的一項，我們會照委員的意思來檢討、處理、落實。"],["葉委員元之：你說減少研習，是不是？"],["彭署長富源：對，我們現在儘量留下法定的才一定要，其他的儘量不要去勉強老師；第二點，如果太遠的地方就用線上，不要勉強老師又要下山或是從海邊過來集中的地方研習。關於研習的部分，其實委員講得都很好，我們會照委員的這個方向，謝謝。"],["葉委員元之：OK，署長，關於減少研習大概什麼時候會有一個辦法出來？"],["彭署長富源：這部分訂成辦法要有授權的依據，但是這個不用，我們用行政指導就可以處理，在2週內就可以處理了。"],["葉委員元之：好。"],["彭署長富源：之前有發過，可是今天委員提醒了，我們再強化一下，2週內。"],["葉委員元之：好，謝謝，謝謝署長。","第二，有關於國民教育法，我自己的提案是針對校園安全跟希望輔導人力專責化，主要是這兩個重點。關於校園安全，我看到今天教育部的書面報告回文表示兩件事情，你們已經有針對校園安全訂出很多辦法，比如說維護校園安全實施要點、校園安全防護注意事項、強化校園防護機制實施計畫等等，感覺上教育部好像認為這些辦法訂下去之後你們對於校園安全已經做得很好了，可是實際上，次長，我不知道您的感覺怎麼樣，因為現在的校園安全問題真的非常複雜，不僅有幫派介入，尤其現在很多學生都被吸收成為車手，然後還有毒品的問題，非常多的問題再結合老師現在也沒什麼管教權，老師也不太能管，所以現在的校園安全問題很嚴重。但是我覺得這些你們訂定的規定有很多已經不合時宜，包括行政院政務委員季連成自己都講了，他要推第五級保全，就是鼓勵退休的軍警回到校園協助處理像毒品或者其他比較重大的治安問題，所以我自己還是認為校園安全入法是有必要的。","其中也有牽涉到人力，我看到教育部的回文裡面也是有提到，114年已經推動補助地方政府辦理國民中學增置學務人力計畫……"],["張廖次長萬堅：633人。"],["葉委員元之：這個部分其實這一、兩年我一直在講，高中是6個班就1個校安人員，國中現在是60個班才1個校安人員。次長，我問你，你覺得關於校安的問題、校園複雜的問題，國中難道沒有比高中來得複雜嗎？國中所面對到的校安問題難道沒有比高中嚴重嗎？"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們其實也是從這個補助計畫去引導，高中我們訂定這個比例標準，國中當然也有需要，國中我們也是用補助的方式，當然希望縣市政府……"],["葉委員元之：我知道，我自己也覺得有必要，我覺得用補助方式很好，但問題就是，高中是6個班就1個校安人員、國中是60個班1個校安人員，人數的比例差太多！"],["張廖次長萬堅：這個部分我們來檢討。"],["葉委員元之：不用檢討，直接補助就好了。"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們現在也有補助計畫。"],["葉委員元之：新的嗎？"],["張廖次長萬堅：應該是115年。"],["彭署長富源：謝謝委員。之前您提到的時候，我們在114年就實施了，增加了633人；而委員再提醒之後，我們也持續提高，像這個學年會再增加230人給完國中的部分。委員剛才還是覺得按照比例是不是可以像高中那樣把規格再提高一點，這部分因為涉及到地方政府一起來努力，我們前面一波已經努力，下一波會照委員這個方向，的確我們也覺得國中還是要持續強化。"],["葉委員元之：這個講很久了啦！這個講非常久了。"],["彭署長富源：所以委員，我們就照這個方向，就一波一波往上加，好不好？"],["葉委員元之：我上次有提醒，反正現在行政院也認為要推第五級保全，不管最後是不是叫第五級保全，既然行政院想做，教育部可以跟行政院要預算，如果他想做這個事情的話。只是我們不要叫第五級保全，我們爭取校安人員。校安人員就是學校行政的一環，比如，他可以跟校長、其他行政人員一起努力把校園安全問題搞好，而不是好像一個校外單位，什麼第五級保全進來做調查。進來做調查可能大家會有點顧慮，但如果是多一個校安人員，我覺得大家都會支持。所以部長可以多跟行政院爭取……"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，我們會朝增加校安人員的方向來做。"],["葉委員元之：剛剛有提到115年，因為我最近收到很多陳情案，滿多不同縣市都有，說115年的辦法好像沒有下來、預算沒有下來，所以原先的校安人員，就是所謂創新人力，他們擔心是不是沒有延續，署長知不知道這件事？"],["張廖次長萬堅：我請署長來回答。"],["彭署長富源：謝謝委員。校安人員我們是用每學年這樣處理，在7月底以前會核定完成，併同今年增加的230校。"],["葉委員元之：我陸陸續續有收到一些陳情，他們擔心是不是115年的辦法沒有下來？"],["張廖次長萬堅：不會啦，不會。"],["葉委員元之：有沒有？"],["彭署長富源：絕對不會。因為這個是非常重要的教育階段，並且我們也會用隨到隨審，不會第一個縣市要等個30天、全部縣市來才給，我們採隨到隨審的方式，趕快協助地方跟學校。"],["葉委員元之：為什麼有人會這樣顧慮？應該都是學校的人來反映。他說參與這次的校安人員聘用日期到今（115）年7月31號，他們得到的消息是7月31號以後沒有經費可以補助。為什麼會有這個誤會？"],["張廖次長萬堅：不會啦。"],["葉委員元之：不會嘛！"],["彭署長富源：我們4月19號……"],["葉委員元之：不只一個學校的人來反映。"],["彭署長富源：如果委員有名單，我們會私下來幫忙他，跟他溝通……"],["葉委員元之：你要不要宣導一下？跟大家宣導一下在7月31號還是會有經費，不然校安人員會擔心。"],["彭署長富源：並且那個錢我們也會準時撥下去，而且我們計畫其實在4月19號就已經頒布了。"],["葉委員元之：是喔？奇怪，我跟你講真的收到不只一位，你們再去了解一下。"],["彭署長富源：再讓我們知道。"],["葉委員元之：OK，好，謝謝。"],["張廖次長萬堅：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。請回座。","下一位有請郭昱晴委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":184,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-22-18","speakers":["羅廷瑋","羅智強","柯志恩","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","林宜瑾","吳沛憶","吳思瑤","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","葉元之","陳培瑜","蔡春綢","許忠信","張雅琳","翁曉玲","葛如鈞","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":105,"meetingDate":["2026-06-29"],"gazette_id":"1155801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、委員蘇清泉等20人擬具「國民教育法第三條條文修正草案」案；二、委員邱鎮軍等20人\n擬具「國民教育法第三條及第四條條文修正草案」案；三、國民黨黨團擬具「國民教育法第三\n條、第四條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案；四、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民教育法第三條及第\n四條條文修正草案」案；五、委員葉元之等18 人擬具「國民教育法第二十一條條文修正草案」\n案；六、委員邱鎮軍等22人擬具「國民教育法第四十四條及第四十八條條文修正草案」案；七、\n委員徐欣瑩等17人擬具「國民教育法第三條、第四條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案；八、委員\n邱鎮軍等19人擬具「國民教育法第四十四條條文修正草案」案；九、委員林倩綺等21人擬具「國\n民教育法第十三條條文修正草案」案；十、委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「國民教育法第三條、第四條\n及第二十八條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1155801_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}