{"error":false,"id":["170170"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170170,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170170","日期":"2026-06-29","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-22-18","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第18次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":18,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[22],"委員會代碼:str":["教育及文化委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第18次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-06-29T11:57:34+08:00","結束時間":"2026-06-29T12:08:28+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:54","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/05a40576d455a9db3d3887282eb3e1127e55e861df8cbb70ad040a94c83a6654ccd822a3089844525ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe","委員發言時間":"11:57:34 - 12:08:28","會議時間":"2026-06-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查教育部函為修正「高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或資遣辦法」部分條文及「公立高級中等以下學校教師成績考核辦法」第五條、第六條之一條文案。【本案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】\n二、審查\n(一) 委員蘇清泉等20人擬具「國民教育法第三條條文修正草案」案。\n(二) 委員邱鎮軍等20人擬具「國民教育法第三條及第四條條文修正草案」案。\n(三) 國民黨黨團擬具「國民教育法第三條、第四條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(四) 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民教育法第三條及第四條條文修正草案」案。\n(五) 委員葉元之等18人擬具「國民教育法第二十一條條文修正草案」案。\n(六) 委員邱鎮軍等22人擬具「國民教育法第四十四條及第四十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(七) 委員徐欣瑩等17人擬具「國民教育法第三條、第四條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(八) 委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「國民教育法第四十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(九) 委員林倩綺等21人擬具「國民教育法第十三條條文修正草案」案。\n(十) 委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「國民教育法第三條、第四條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n【進行詢答及逐條審查】【6月29日及7月1、2日三天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.24534375,"end":7.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.658468750000001,"end":8.282843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.695968750000002,"end":11.337218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.87721875,"end":12.974093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.598468750000002,"end":20.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.20909375,"end":23.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.22971875,"end":24.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.59659375,"end":29.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.86596875,"end":30.051593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.08534375,"end":43.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.665343750000005,"end":45.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.711593750000006,"end":47.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.78721875,"end":64.66221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.84784375000001,"end":71.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.11784375,"end":65.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.98596875,"end":98.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.98909375000001,"end":79.00596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.24221875,"end":79.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.17159375,"end":102.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.61409375000001,"end":106.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.95096875,"end":115.91159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.33346875000001,"end":120.29909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.65346875,"end":124.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.17596875000001,"end":129.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.03596875,"end":133.93409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.15346875,"end":148.29471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.63221875000002,"end":159.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.37721875,"end":165.15284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.49034375000002,"end":175.29471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.78409375,"end":191.61284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.15284375000002,"end":198.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.85221875000002,"end":202.61534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.91909375,"end":208.48784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.63971875000001,"end":244.04346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.39784375000002,"end":264.36096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.90096875,"end":269.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.84534375000004,"end":280.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.39221875000004,"end":283.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.41284375000004,"end":303.76409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.30846875000003,"end":303.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.00034375,"end":312.16784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.57284375,"end":313.72034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.36159375,"end":317.06159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.09534375000004,"end":317.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.76596875,"end":324.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.77346875,"end":326.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.19096875,"end":329.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.19846875,"end":342.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.30659375000005,"end":345.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.24284375,"end":347.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.97659375,"end":351.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.19971875000005,"end":363.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.11096875000004,"end":353.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.82221875000005,"end":406.04346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.11096875000004,"end":414.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.05909375000005,"end":414.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.35846875000004,"end":419.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.07096875,"end":419.44221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.44221875000005,"end":420.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.09596875000005,"end":423.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":424.21784375000004,"end":427.17096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":425.60159375,"end":427.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":427.49159375000005,"end":430.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":428.14971875000003,"end":429.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":429.88784375,"end":430.29284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":430.25909375000003,"end":433.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.10659375,"end":437.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":435.81096875000003,"end":440.24909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":438.89909375,"end":439.27034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.16471875,"end":470.13471875000005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有請次長有請次長吳教委好次長好 談到國民義務教育向下延伸其實這個問題談了幾十年為什麼呢 因為我們都很知道學校它的產生是來自於工業革命化之後"},{"start":30.264,"end":43.695,"text":"所以呢为了国家需要读写算的人力需要标准化的知识在短期的时间内累积知识能力所以呢我们有着这样的一个机构"},{"start":44.721,"end":71.208,"text":"可是当我们说学校是不是等同于工厂化其实也蛮像的所以呢一直以来几十年来在教育心理学上不断的讨论到底我们的孩子要几岁入学才是最好的但是至少我们知道幼儿它基于他的大脑肌肉的一个发展"},{"start":72.348,"end":98.064,"text":"來到了學校他會有一些問題像是久時間的一個端坐在那邊或者是要求一個高度的紀律甚至是分離的焦慮讓他造成以後排斥上學或者是這樣的一個集體化學習抹滅掉孩子的創造力好奇心所以簡單來講就是亞苗助長"},{"start":99.246,"end":118.616,"text":"可是我們面對教育的平權跟教育我們的幼兒的身心發展其實他到底是只能擇一是互斥的還是我們可以兼顧的但是我們可以知道現在因為幼兒園他有點類似軍備競賽"},{"start":121.177,"end":147.943,"text":"所以呢很多的教育学者也非常的担心那现在我们更面临到的一个新的问题是AI技术它真的是发展的非常快速那么面对我们现在已经实施这200年的传统学校体制的僵化所以呢已经慢慢的开始出现了三四十年前在谈的无学校时代"},{"start":148.743,"end":164.639,"text":"也就是我們也慢慢開始可能要去考慮做去的以機構為中心是不是現在慢慢的已經轉移到以學習者為中心那麼正在解構當中特別是現在的一個學歷通膨"},{"start":165.64,"end":191.368,"text":"所以我們在這個時候要來討論這個問題也不是不可以但是呢我至少知道說如果我們要談到教育的平權談到機會的平等我們一直都在講要實質的平等所以我們一直主張要有積極性的差別待遇那特別是像現在我看起來我們教育部的目標就是免學費嘛"},{"start":192.248,"end":207.447,"text":"非強迫嘛那我也知道說仍舊現在有很多的家庭他沒有照顧的一個能量跟支持我也看到我們很多的孩子他需要早期療癒"},{"start":209.169,"end":225.16,"text":"卻不得其門而入家長也不送他去那有很多認知發展遲緩或者是身心障礙的這些兒童他們都很需要及早的接受教育所以在這個部分"},{"start":225.78,"end":242.885,"text":"我會覺得說如果我們要去彌平所謂的教育平權給予它實質的平等積極性的差別待遇我個人是認為這是我個人的主張我真的建議從分區尤其是所謂的離島"},{"start":244.645,"end":263.783,"text":"還有原鄉偏鄉來做那剛好我也看到立法院的法治局在110年的報告有提到建議從教育資源不足的地區開始做那我覺得孩子其實一般的孩子他更需要的是愛"},{"start":264.964,"end":279.694,"text":"安全然後充分的遊戲充分的聽故事那到底有一些幼兒園他是不是只做提供愛與安全然後呢給他充分的遊戲讓他充分的聽故事"},{"start":280.595,"end":301.789,"text":"是不是所有的幼兒園都能夠這麼做我相信大家都有眼睛都可以看但是我們現在要討論的就是說我想聽聽看就是提到這個國民教育向下延伸到五歲到底準備好了沒有因為我現在知道的是我們的五歲入園率是96%次長沒錯吧是"},{"start":304.21,"end":329.276,"text":"所以如果我們現在把他強迫入學條例追蹤的話會有多少人需要把他拉回來大概六千人左右那這六千人會產生什麼樣的一個做法如果按照強迫入學條例的話他可能會有一些懲罰的機制開罰可能要開罰那意思就是說有一些家長會強烈的反對嗎"},{"start":333.508,"end":347.302,"text":"應該是會他如果有生疏譬如說有一些特殊的因素譬如說他出國或者他有特殊的身體疾病等等那如果是那種有教育理念的家長呢他是在家學他就是去學校"},{"start":348.363,"end":363.115,"text":"為中心的學習在家自學那個申請也是可以做所以他就申請在家入學那麼如果現在我們要開始做這件事情那請問我們的非營利幼兒園準公共的這些幼兒園私幼他們的配套是什麼"},{"start":364.111,"end":384.006,"text":"這個就是要去研究嘛公共化我們10年我們剛才提到這個委員也提到嘛10年來大概增加了公幼跟非營利幼兒園大概增加600多所那這些這些其實是一直在逐漸在提供能量那其實委員你現在在黑板上所講的這個東西就是說我們從"},{"start":384.887,"end":405.63,"text":"降低負擔開始 土積率開始 到現在我們也開始在注意這個質的部分 質量的問題 所以我們現在大家倡議多年的 希望能夠從1比15減到1比12我們在公共化的幼兒園裡面也都已經達到了 115學年都達到再過來就是對於一些品質 有些準公共"},{"start":406.371,"end":423.448,"text":"准公共化私立的幼兒園它的品質的問題我們要怎麼樣的監管提升等等這個也是我們未來努力的重點市長其實我覺得這件事情不是不能做但是我覺得持不同觀點的人很多"},{"start":424.309,"end":446.21,"text":"不管是專家學者或者是家長其實很多人都持不同的觀點所以我覺得充分的溝通很重要那麼跟地方的分權也要談清楚我們會把這些點談出來所以我覺得這個部分我們需要更多的一個支持的論證可是呢"},{"start":446.71,"end":465.048,"text":"我個人我是希望說如果說真的要推那我是希望看到如何分階段分區域那特別是針對我剛剛所講的積極性的差別待遇才是真公平我希望能夠在兩個月內可以給我看到我們這個"},{"start":470.794,"end":495.609,"text":"一样的一个分阶段分区域的实施的规划内容还有可行性我希望两个月之内给我报告可以吗然后另外有一个问题我想要请教一下就是我们现在在谈校师会议但是我遇到很多老师其实他在可能被考核办法处理之后呢他被记过然后呢他们也会打夙愿"},{"start":496.73,"end":512.316,"text":"好現在因為他們都要自費的去找律師寫狀要自證清白那你也可以看到很多老師說身心科看了兩年啊然後呢要去跟他們的縣政府去要求經費呢也被拒絕"},{"start":513.416,"end":531.229,"text":"所以這個部分我想要了解一下學校作為教師的服務機關那對於因公設送的教師他應該負有法定協助義務那這些義務呢不是學校的恩惠而是教師法明確規定的責任所以我有所知教育部提供給我111到114年"},{"start":534.091,"end":541.919,"text":"因公射送老師的補助案件我看到是16案46人所以這個是確實的數據嗎"},{"start":544.873,"end":564.779,"text":"我想這是國立的高中所以給我的這個16萬446人是針對國立高中嗎所以其實我們之前我們在參加公聽會的時候有很多教師團結的代表公會代表提到那個教師如果因為這些投訴他射送除了心理智商輔導系統的建立之外"},{"start":565.279,"end":588.624,"text":"律師的支持我是個人非常支持回去我也跟部裡面講所以我才希望因為有的縣市他不給啊是所以我們就是因為業務單位跟我說這個我們必須要跟地方來在談那在跟地方談之前我們自己部裡面也盤一些經費我們來協助就像好像當年教師法修過之後2020年開始我們開始自己"},{"start":590.251,"end":605.901,"text":"編中央的預算然後輔導各個地方縣市政府來建立教師諮商輔導系統每年諮商的案件從兩千多成長到現在五千多件我想這個就是也是要一步一步來做地方不做我們就來協助我們用經費用計畫來希望他能夠來做"},{"start":606.761,"end":625.094,"text":"那當然我很肯定教育部有跟衛福部研議準備說將家長配合管教責任入法並納入罰則所以這個部分的進度還有呢對於這一些有沒有建立及時法務的支援機制"},{"start":626.375,"end":652.7,"text":"現在教育部在做的說要增至學務人力是否具備足夠的專業訓練來應對這一些管教事件那最後就是應該要同步檢討教師如果因公射送他的輔助辦法希望可以明確界定老師可以被協助的部分那我也希望兩個月內一同的提供給本席好不好好 謝謝市長 謝謝主席"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}