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你怎麼讓它發生呢請問這事情發生多久"},{"start":148.51,"end":165.596,"text":"我想跟委員報告我們不是在爭議我剛才跟前委員說明的意思就是說監理有它一定的程序跟步驟這因為攸關到事實的釐清你什麼時候要介入你告訴我什麼時候開始介入我剛才提到我們的重大偶發通報"},{"start":167.517,"end":194.729,"text":"這個他通常重大偶發那偶發就是很多資訊都不明確只說有這件事情所以我們當然接到這個我們當然就立刻就會介入去詢問說那是什麼時候沒有按照我們重大偶發的一個情況各位都知道我想在場的很多人都知道我們收到偶發他必須要七天之內就把提供更七天之內就提供更具體的說明外面有一個image就覺得說銀行局裡面規範就不太嚴謹"},{"start":198.292,"end":224.961,"text":"這個 保險局基本上也都非常的嚴謹啊 政區局因為底下又有交易所啦又有櫃買啦 所以它分了就是那個線太長所以大家就會對你那個主要的主要啦 主要這三個局啊就對於這個政區局啊就覺得政區局好像這個線太長了 溝通不容易變這個樣子 所以績效不好 政區局"},{"start":226.448,"end":252.616,"text":"其實委員不太一樣這三個產業比如說我們政經局是這個主管公開發行公司有加證券的這些範圍它的那個加速跟這個範圍跟監理的強度本來就不太一樣但對金融機構又是不一樣的那當然比如說我們的投信投顧法銀行法跟保險法本來就有不同的規範那當然對於一些的限制本來就不太一樣還有等一下"},{"start":254.096,"end":270.71,"text":"你這檢查局已經進駐國泰投信進出了嗎是 他本來就已經在做檢查大概什麼時候可以檢查完檢查是按照我們檢查的需求不會是先預定什麼時候要終結檢查幾天了 已經檢查幾天了這我們待會可以請我們檢查局來來來 現在講一下檢查"},{"start":273.625,"end":298.883,"text":"報告委員我們是6月22號開始那預計是6月幾號6月22號上個禮拜一6月20號上個22號所以10天那預計是到7月初7月8號但是必要的時候我們還會再繼續延長所以大概三個禮拜大致上是這樣子三個禮拜左右一般過去檢察局介入時間多長一般來講"},{"start":299.895,"end":313.647,"text":"一般來講看他的這個金融機構他的規模如果說像是投信的話大致上有些是兩個禮拜到三個禮拜左右夠了啦 兩三個禮拜夠了啦你現在發現什麼問題沒有"},{"start":317.029,"end":338.417,"text":"委員我想這個檢查的細節實在不適合請我們局長在這邊說明我想這個程序部分我們可以充分的說明好 那就沒有問題 我就要問你這個不是不應該只有國泰性法發生其他的投信可能也有你要不要全面清查是不是要全面清查"},{"start":338.897,"end":355.16,"text":"我們現在已經開始在做了我們已經請那個我們投信投顧公會先開始我們已經請他開始要做這件事情當然我也會請我們齊群因為這個部分因為很攸關到我們投資標的合法性這個太重要了這個東西所以這件事情其實"},{"start":356.321,"end":364.303,"text":"不應該犯一個 這個叫做第一級的錯誤啊怎麼可能 這個電腦一按就知道了怎麼會讓這個事情發生 怎麼會後面這麼淋漓浪浪而且拖這麼久的時間不可思議啊 大家不可思議啊所以我才給你下一個標你們盡力擺爛啊 你就不痛不癢啊沒有包就沒有 你們應該有一個主動的"},{"start":383.087,"end":402.88,"text":"auditing的機制主要是auditing說他們投資的因為政交所、企交所都在你手上你們應該叫他periodically定期的一些資訊給你們看一下他裡面的投資標的有沒有違反到這個東西"},{"start":404.14,"end":426.806,"text":"對 當然這是我們有我們定期查核的工作其實我們有幾道防線政府的監理已經是最後一道了我想說他們內部本來就應該他們內部都有規定各個公司不管哪家公司他都有規定說多久要申報你說你都要申報但是他們沒有落實這件事情他為什麼沒有落實他們自己的規定這我們要來檢討你對他們有處罰"},{"start":430.667,"end":447.234,"text":"因為這個處罰是要把所有事情釐清就跟法院要判刑一定要把所有事件確定才能夠作如果處罰的就是現在調查結果就是這麼大的漏洞最高處罰是怎麼樣這個我們投信投顧法這邊上次在記者會有說明違反投信投顧法的話最高是罰到三百萬可以撤照嗎撤照"},{"start":458.979,"end":475.209,"text":"有沒有撤照這樣法規裡面也是有這樣規定這個嚴重的事情這麼大一個皮肉另外我想要問一個你可以看到今天有媒體揭露PC Home被害"},{"start":476.4,"end":493.892,"text":"裡面派啊 PI 錢包啊被害這裡面損失影響了350萬戶他的個資全部外洩這個第一家的被勒索的一個軟體啊這個入侵的第三方支付這個金國會怎麼看這個事情"},{"start":494.298,"end":518.243,"text":"我想這是應該講任何一個機構不只金融機構或者第三方支付我想今天我有看到那個速發部已經迅速採取一些動作我想這個也給我們很多警惕我們這邊也有電資也有銀行這些都要注意這件事情這也是我們在過去我們在去年頒布資安韌性藍圖的時候特別特別強調未來最大的風險之一就是資安風險特別是金融機構擁有這麼多的"},{"start":520.043,"end":537.035,"text":"客戶資料還有就是影響整個金融安定那我想這是第三方支付被害我想我們這邊也會來提醒你們要不要再啟動一個對於銀行金控他們的資安我們全面再做一次檢查有沒有這個必要"},{"start":537.395,"end":562.807,"text":"其實我們這隨時外作我們剛剛才結束不久整個大型的資安演練應該是上個應該幾個禮拜應該上個禮拜還是兩禮拜前結果都很好也不是我們所謂不是都很好大家就是這個資安演練本來就是要不斷地用所謂的一些情境去測試你給他們打分數是都是A級嗎還是B級"},{"start":565.513,"end":575.357,"text":"我沒有這個數據啦回去我再提供給委員看他們這次的給他們資安的決定結果是什麼好不好這是演練的狀況我再跟委員報告下次請一下財政部的次長陳次長"},{"start":586.158,"end":612.108,"text":"主席啊 是 賴文豪一個題目啦 是你聽一下你部長講一話有關於台美的避免雙重課稅啊在這個地方我不知道問了幾年了答案都是 啊 今年秋天因為那個美國眾議院去年就通過了現在還在參議院參議院呢大概今年 因為他要選舉的"},{"start":613.632,"end":623.887,"text":"大概你了解美國的參議院的一些運作方式今年底幾乎不可能這個東西 財政部有沒有什麼辦法再撲朽一下美國快一點 有沒有"},{"start":625.103,"end":652.344,"text":"是 謝謝賴文我想財政部過去這幾年包括跟外交部整個還有駐美的一個代表我們對於ADTA的部分我想我們積極在push一個讓他的一個法案能夠禁訴兩院來通過並他的一個美國總統來合併現在我就告訴你參議院卡在參議院好 最後一個最後一個小問題替你們的基層人員講話現在說要軍工就要挑釁不管挑3% 4% 5%"},{"start":654.746,"end":657.369,"text":"我們希望在這裡面有一個人種特別強有一個專業價值"},{"start":660.25,"end":686.899,"text":"你可以看現在的稅層基層所最基層的幾乎缺百分之二十找不到人又辛苦他的家籍又少這一部分你們要不要跟人種那裡去跟他請命一下專業家籍要提高否則你找不到基層的稅務人員我現在告訴你每一個地方比如太平市政府大安區有大安區基層所底下的人"},{"start":687.879,"end":701.183,"text":"文山區一樣這些人現在都缺平均20%專業家籍非常多我想今天剛好是稅務節也謝謝委員跟我們一起來跟人總我們的稅務同仁的家籍的部分來家籍留住更多的人願意來我們財政部謝謝委員的感情"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:39:45.879000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:39:46.199000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，各位先進。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:39:46.199000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:39:46.680000+08:00","text":"有請金管會彭主委。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T09:39:46.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:39:47.500000+08:00","text":"請金管會彭主委。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:39:47.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:39:47.600000+08:00","text":"委員早安。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:39:48.221000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:39:48.381000+08:00","text":"主委早。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:39:48.501000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:40:19.321000+08:00","text":"雖然你剛才面對其他委員的時候說我們不要討論個案，我也同意不要討論個案，可是現在國泰金有關投信之間的問題所引起的是全面，全面就是說其他金控底下的投信或者投信only有沒有這個問題？","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:40:19.321000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:40:41.215000+08:00","text":"就是即時資訊串流遺漏掉了，它不知道，你們也不知道，所以我的標題就是「監理擺爛，治理失靈」，公司的治理失靈，一個投信他自己的董監有沒有兼職怎麼會不知道呢？","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:40:42.236000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:40:44.098000+08:00","text":"在金控底下，金控怎麼會不知道呢？","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:40:44.899000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:41:18.791000+08:00","text":"這個狀況不可思議，這裡面金控和子公司已經有8個資訊斷線，我實在沒有辦法想像說這麼大的一個group，他們之間的資訊流會這麼的weak，居然會遺漏掉某一個董事在裡面……按照規定，當然投信不可以買他當獨董或兼職公司股票，大家都了解，怎麼可以進出呢？","quality":0.847},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:41:19.252000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:41:35.924000+08:00","text":"所以造成的細節，我就不要在這裡講了，你說這個是個別的資訊，但造成投資者的損失，因為你中間的miscommunication──斷訊而造成投資者的損失，照理講沒有損失啊！","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:41:36.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:41:48.076000+08:00","text":"結果你這樣子強迫，後來發現的強迫，即便是虧本的他也賣，這都造成投資人莫大的損失，我就請問你，你剛剛說三次介入，是不是？","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:41:48.817000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:41:55.002000+08:00","text":"沒有，我跟委員講，委員那個標題，我想修正一下：監理沒有擺爛，治理確實失靈。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:41:55.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:41:57.564000+08:00","text":"所以是公司不好，你做得很好啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:41:57.564000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T09:41:58.564000+08:00","text":"不是，我的意思是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:41:57.704000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:41:58.685000+08:00","text":"事實上你不好啊，你怎麼讓它發生呢？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:41:58.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:41:59.185000+08:00","text":"請問這事情發生多久？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:42:03.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:42:13.994000+08:00","text":"我想跟委員報告，我們不是在爭理，我剛才跟前一個委員說明的意思是，監理有它一定的程序跟步驟，正因為攸關到事實的釐清……","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:42:14.634000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:42:15.334000+08:00","text":"你什麼時候要介入？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:42:15.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:42:16.555000+08:00","text":"你告訴我什麼時候開始介入？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:42:16.955000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:42:30.661000+08:00","text":"我剛才提到我們的重大偶發通報，通常對於重大偶發，偶發就是很多資訊都不明確，只說有這件事情，所以當然接到這個我們立刻就會介入去詢問說……","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:42:30.661000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:42:31.861000+08:00","text":"那是什麼時候？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:42:32.302000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:42:39.725000+08:00","text":"按照我們重大偶發的一個情況，各位都知道，我想在場很多人都知道，我們收到偶發，它必須要七天之內就提供更……","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:42:40.025000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:42:41.125000+08:00","text":"七天之內？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:42:41.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:42:42.566000+08:00","text":"對，就提供更具體的說明。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:42:43.186000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:43:02.115000+08:00","text":"外面有一個image，就覺得銀行局裡面規範就比較嚴謹，保險局基本上也都非常的嚴謹，證期局因為底下又有交易所、又有櫃買，所以它分的線比較長……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:43:02.115000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T09:43:05.876000+08:00","text":"委員其實不是……","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:43:05.876000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:43:19.501000+08:00","text":"你聽我講完，所以大家對主要這三個局，對於證期局，會覺得好像證期局這個線太長了，溝通不容易，變成這樣子，所以績效不好。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:43:21.448000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:43:47.255000+08:00","text":"委員，其實這三個產業不太一樣，比如我們證期局是主管公開發行公司有價證券這些範圍，他的家數、範圍跟監理強度本來就不太一樣，但對金融機構又是不一樣的，當然，我們的投信投顧法、銀行法跟保險法本來就有不同的規範，對於一些的限制本來就不太一樣，我想……","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:43:47.456000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:43:52.659000+08:00","text":"等一下，檢查局已經進駐國泰投信，進駐了嗎？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:43:52.659000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:43:54.180000+08:00","text":"是，它本來就已經在做檢查。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:43:54.741000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:43:56.062000+08:00","text":"大概什麼時候可以檢查完？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:43:57.163000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:44:02.247000+08:00","text":"檢查是按照我們檢查的需求，不會是先預定什麼時候要終場。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:44:02.907000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:44:03.628000+08:00","text":"已經檢查幾天了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:44:03.888000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:44:05.229000+08:00","text":"這個我們待會可以請我們檢查局長……","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:44:05.329000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:44:05.689000+08:00","text":"現在講一下，檢查局。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"賴局長欣國","start":"2026-07-01T09:44:08.625000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:44:11.447000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們是6月22號開始，預計是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:44:11.788000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:44:12.608000+08:00","text":"6月幾號？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴局長欣國","start":"2026-07-01T09:44:12.608000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:44:17.932000+08:00","text":"6月22號上個禮拜一。6月20號？22號。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:44:17.932000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:44:18.292000+08:00","text":"所以10天？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴局長欣國","start":"2026-07-01T09:44:19.853000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:44:25.337000+08:00","text":"對，預計是到7月初，7月8號，但是必要的時候我們還會再繼續延長。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:44:25.337000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:44:26.498000+08:00","text":"所以大概三個禮拜？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴局長欣國","start":"2026-07-01T09:44:27.619000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:44:28.520000+08:00","text":"大致上是這樣子。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:44:28.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:44:33.723000+08:00","text":"三個禮拜左右，一般過去檢查局介入時間多長？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:44:33.723000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:44:33.883000+08:00","text":"過去一般來講。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"賴局長欣國","start":"2026-07-01T09:44:34.895000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:44:38.098000+08:00","text":"一般來講，看金融機構的規模……","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:44:38.098000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T09:44:40.180000+08:00","text":"average，就這樣的size。","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴局長欣國","start":"2026-07-01T09:44:40.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:44:45.825000+08:00","text":"如果像是投信的話，大致上有些是兩個禮拜到三個禮拜左右。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:44:46.185000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:44:48.627000+08:00","text":"夠了啦，兩、三個禮拜夠了啦，你現在發現什麼問題沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:44:52.029000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:45:00.652000+08:00","text":"委員，這個檢查的細節實在不適合請我們局長在這邊說明，有關程序部分，我們可以充分的說明。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:45:00.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:45:09.435000+08:00","text":"好，那就不問你，我要問你，這個不應該只有國泰世華發生而已，其他的投信可能也有？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:45:09.435000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T09:45:10.435000+08:00","text":"對，所以我們……","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:45:10.376000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:45:11.416000+08:00","text":"你要不要全面清查？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:45:11.416000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T09:45:13.017000+08:00","text":"對，所以我們已經……","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:45:13.017000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:45:13.397000+08:00","text":"什麼時候全面清查？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:45:13.897000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:45:27.716000+08:00","text":"我們現在已經開始在做了，我們已經請投信投顧公會先開始，我們已經請它開始要做這件事情，當然我也會請證期局，因為這個部分很攸關到我們投資標的合法性……","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:45:27.917000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:45:28.658000+08:00","text":"這個太重要了，這個東西……","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:45:29.339000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:45:30.160000+08:00","text":"對，所以這件事情其實……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:45:31.321000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:45:33.782000+08:00","text":"不應該犯這種叫做低級的錯誤，怎麼可能……電腦一按就知道了，怎麼會讓這個事情發生？","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:45:33.802000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:45:59.688000+08:00","text":"怎麼會後面這麼亂七八糟，而且拖這麼久的時間，讓大家不可思議啊，所以我才給你下一個標就是監理擺爛，你不痛不癢，沒有報就沒有……你們應該有一個主動auditing的機制。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:45:59.688000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T09:46:00.688000+08:00","text":"其實我跟委員報告，就是說……","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:46:00.188000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:46:07.573000+08:00","text":"主要他們投資的，因為證交所、期交所都在你手上，對不對？","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:46:08.954000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:46:17.859000+08:00","text":"你們應該叫它periodically定期的一些資訊要給你們，看一下它裡面的投資標的有沒有違反到這個東西，應該要有啊！","quality":0.855},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:46:19.140000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:46:22.561000+08:00","text":"對，當然我們有我們定期查核的工作……","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:46:22.561000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T09:46:23.561000+08:00","text":"目前沒有。","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:46:22.781000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:46:35.344000+08:00","text":"其實我們有幾道防線，政府的監理已經是最後一道了，我想說他內部本來就應該都有規定，各個公司不管哪家公司，它都有規定說多久要申報……","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:46:35.344000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T09:46:36.344000+08:00","text":"你都要相信它？","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:46:36.344000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T09:46:37.344000+08:00","text":"那就不用你們啦！","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:46:35.945000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:46:41.686000+08:00","text":"都要申報，但他們沒有落實這件事情，它為什麼沒有落實他們自己的規定，這我們要來檢討。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:46:41.686000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:46:41.806000+08:00","text":"你對它有沒有處罰？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:46:45.667000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:46:51.790000+08:00","text":"因為這個處罰是要把所有事情釐清，就跟法院要判刑，一定要把所有事證確定才能夠做。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:46:52.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:46:57.712000+08:00","text":"是，如果現在調查的結果就是這麼大的漏洞，最高處罰是怎麼樣？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:46:57.712000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T09:46:58.712000+08:00","text":"罰錢嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:46:57.712000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:46:59.433000+08:00","text":"上次我們在記者會有說明，在投信投顧法……","quality":0.529},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:46:59.433000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T09:47:00.433000+08:00","text":"來，講一下罰多少錢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"高局長晶萍","start":"2026-07-01T09:46:59.693000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:47:01.634000+08:00","text":"違反投信投顧法的話，最高是罰到300萬。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:47:01.634000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:47:02.034000+08:00","text":"可以撤照嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:47:02.034000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:47:02.214000+08:00","text":"能不能撤照？","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"高局長晶萍","start":"2026-07-01T09:47:17.201000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:47:18.722000+08:00","text":"法規裡面也是有這樣規定。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:47:20.203000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:47:21.043000+08:00","text":"這麼嚴重的事情，出了這麼大的紕漏！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:47:24.005000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:47:48.872000+08:00","text":"另外，我想要問，你可以看到今天有媒體揭露PChome的Pi錢包被駭，損失影響了350萬戶的個資全部外洩，它是臺灣第一家遭到勒索軟體入侵的第三方支付業者，金管會怎麼看這個事情？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:47:50.778000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:48:17.685000+08:00","text":"任何一個機構，不止金融機構或者第三方支付……今天我有看到數發部已經迅速採取一些動作，我想這個也給我們很多警惕，我們這邊也有電資，也有銀行，都要注意這些事情，這也是我們在去年頒布資安韌性藍圖時特別特別強調的，未來最大的風險之一就是資安風險，特別是金融機構擁有這麼多的客戶資料，還有會影響整個金融安定。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:48:18.946000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:48:23.429000+08:00","text":"第三方支付被駭，我想我們也會來提醒……","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:48:23.549000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:48:32.015000+08:00","text":"你們要不要再啟動，對於銀行、金控的資安全面再做一次檢查，有沒有這個必要？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:48:32.395000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:48:40.579000+08:00","text":"其實這隨時都在做，我們不久前才剛結束整個大型的資安演練……","quality":0.731},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:48:40.579000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T09:48:41.579000+08:00","text":"什麼時候？","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:48:40.579000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:48:45.161000+08:00","text":"應該是上個禮拜還是兩禮拜前。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:48:45.781000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:48:46.482000+08:00","text":"結果通通很好？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:48:47.182000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:48:56.346000+08:00","text":"不是，不是都很好，大家資安演練本來就是要不斷地用一些情境去測試。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:48:56.346000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:48:57.647000+08:00","text":"你給他們打的分數都是A級嗎？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:48:57.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:48:57.807000+08:00","text":"還是B級？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:49:00.513000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:49:03.675000+08:00","text":"我沒有這個數據，回去我再提供給委員，看他們這次的……","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:49:04.555000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:49:06.356000+08:00","text":"好，提供給我們這次他們資安的檢定結果是什麼，好不好？","quality":0.652},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:49:06.736000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:49:08.437000+08:00","text":"對，這次演練的狀況，我會再跟委員報告。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:49:08.437000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T09:49:09.437000+08:00","text":"好，你請回。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:49:09.437000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:49:10.337000+08:00","text":"我請財政部的次長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T09:49:10.337000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:49:10.357000+08:00","text":"陳次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳次長勇勝","start":"2026-07-01T09:49:21.158000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:49:22.178000+08:00","text":"主席好，賴委員好。","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:49:23.399000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:49:58.627000+08:00","text":"你聽一下一個題目，你們部長講了一些話，有關於臺美避免雙重課稅，在這個地方我不知道問多久了，你們答案都是：今年秋天……但美國眾議院去年就通過了，現在還在參議院，參議院今年大概因為他們要選舉了，如果你了解美國參議院的一些運作方式，就知道今年底幾乎不可能，這個東西財政部有沒有什麼辦法再push美國快一點？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"陳次長勇勝","start":"2026-07-01T09:50:01.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:50:17.697000+08:00","text":"謝謝賴委員，我想過去這幾年財政部跟外交部，還有包括駐美的代表，對於ADTA的部分我們都積極在push，讓它的法案能夠儘速在兩院來通過，並且能讓美國總統來核定……","quality":0.767},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:50:18.017000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:50:19.979000+08:00","text":"現在我就告訴你卡在參議院。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳次長勇勝","start":"2026-07-01T09:50:19.979000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T09:50:21.500000+08:00","text":"是，年底……","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:50:21.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:50:55.517000+08:00","text":"最後一個小問題，我替你們的基層人員講話，現在說軍公教要調薪，不管調3%、4%、5%，人總特別講有一個專業加給，你可以看現在的稅捐稽徵所、最基層的幾乎缺20%，找不到人、又辛苦、他的加給又少，這部分你們要不要跟人總請命專業加給要提高，否則你找不到基層的稅務人員？","quality":0.82},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:50:55.517000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:51:07.660000+08:00","text":"我現在就告訴你，每一個地方比如說臺北市政府大安稽徵所底下的人，還有文山區也一樣，這些現在平均都缺20%，專業加給……","quality":0.74},{"speaker":"陳次長勇勝","start":"2026-07-01T09:51:08.941000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:51:14.523000+08:00","text":"謝謝賴委員，我想今天剛好是稅務節，也謝謝委員跟我們一起向人總反映稅務同仁的辛苦，在專業加給的部分……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-01T09:51:15.263000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:51:15.863000+08:00","text":"想辦法加專業加給，留住更多的人，讓他們願意來財政部，好不好？","quality":0.462},{"speaker":"陳次長勇勝","start":"2026-07-01T09:51:15.923000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:51:15.943000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員的肯定。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T09:51:16.443000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T09:51:18.443000+08:00","text":"謝謝賴士葆委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T09:51:18.743000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T09:51:21.885857+08:00","text":"下一個請郭國文委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":710,"blocks":[["賴委員士葆：（9時39分）謝謝主席，各位先進。有請金管會彭主委。"],["主席：請金管會彭主委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員早安。"],["賴委員士葆：主委早。雖然你剛才面對其他委員的時候說我們不要討論個案，我也同意不要討論個案，可是現在國泰金有關投信之間的問題所引起的是全面，全面就是說其他金控底下的投信或者投信only有沒有這個問題？就是即時資訊串流遺漏掉了，它不知道，你們也不知道，所以我的標題就是「監理擺爛，治理失靈」，公司的治理失靈，一個投信他自己的董監有沒有兼職怎麼會不知道呢？在金控底下，金控怎麼會不知道呢？這個狀況不可思議，這裡面金控和子公司已經有8個資訊斷線，我實在沒有辦法想像說這麼大的一個group，他們之間的資訊流會這麼的weak，居然會遺漏掉某一個董事在裡面……按照規定，當然投信不可以買他當獨董或兼職公司股票，大家都了解，怎麼可以進出呢？所以造成的細節，我就不要在這裡講了，你說這個是個別的資訊，但造成投資者的損失，因為你中間的miscommunication──斷訊而造成投資者的損失，照理講沒有損失啊！結果你這樣子強迫，後來發現的強迫，即便是虧本的他也賣，這都造成投資人莫大的損失，我就請問你，你剛剛說三次介入，是不是？"],["彭主任委員金隆：沒有，我跟委員講，委員那個標題，我想修正一下：監理沒有擺爛，治理確實失靈。"],["賴委員士葆：所以是公司不好，你做得很好啦！"],["彭主任委員金隆：不是，我的意思是……"],["賴委員士葆：事實上你不好啊，你怎麼讓它發生呢？請問這事情發生多久？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我想跟委員報告，我們不是在爭理，我剛才跟前一個委員說明的意思是，監理有它一定的程序跟步驟，正因為攸關到事實的釐清……"],["賴委員士葆：你什麼時候要介入？你告訴我什麼時候開始介入？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我剛才提到我們的重大偶發通報，通常對於重大偶發，偶發就是很多資訊都不明確，只說有這件事情，所以當然接到這個我們立刻就會介入去詢問說……"],["賴委員士葆：那是什麼時候？"],["彭主任委員金隆：按照我們重大偶發的一個情況，各位都知道，我想在場很多人都知道，我們收到偶發，它必須要七天之內就提供更……"],["賴委員士葆：七天之內？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，就提供更具體的說明。"],["賴委員士葆：外面有一個image，就覺得銀行局裡面規範就比較嚴謹，保險局基本上也都非常的嚴謹，證期局因為底下又有交易所、又有櫃買，所以它分的線比較長……"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員其實不是……"],["賴委員士葆：你聽我講完，所以大家對主要這三個局，對於證期局，會覺得好像證期局這個線太長了，溝通不容易，變成這樣子，所以績效不好。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員，其實這三個產業不太一樣，比如我們證期局是主管公開發行公司有價證券這些範圍，他的家數、範圍跟監理強度本來就不太一樣，但對金融機構又是不一樣的，當然，我們的投信投顧法、銀行法跟保險法本來就有不同的規範，對於一些的限制本來就不太一樣，我想……"],["賴委員士葆：等一下，檢查局已經進駐國泰投信，進駐了嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，它本來就已經在做檢查。"],["賴委員士葆：大概什麼時候可以檢查完？"],["彭主任委員金隆：檢查是按照我們檢查的需求，不會是先預定什麼時候要終場。"],["賴委員士葆：已經檢查幾天了？"],["彭主任委員金隆：這個我們待會可以請我們檢查局長……"],["賴委員士葆：現在講一下，檢查局。"],["賴局長欣國：報告委員，我們是6月22號開始，預計是……"],["賴委員士葆：6月幾號？"],["賴局長欣國：6月22號上個禮拜一。"],["賴委員士葆：6月20號？"],["賴局長欣國：22號。"],["賴委員士葆：所以10天？"],["賴局長欣國：對，預計是到7月初，7月8號，但是必要的時候我們還會再繼續延長。"],["賴委員士葆：所以大概三個禮拜？"],["賴局長欣國：大致上是這樣子。"],["賴委員士葆：三個禮拜左右，一般過去檢查局介入時間多長？過去一般來講。"],["賴局長欣國：一般來講，看金融機構的規模……"],["賴委員士葆：average，就這樣的size。"],["賴局長欣國：如果像是投信的話，大致上有些是兩個禮拜到三個禮拜左右。"],["賴委員士葆：夠了啦，兩、三個禮拜夠了啦，你現在發現什麼問題沒有？"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員，這個檢查的細節實在不適合請我們局長在這邊說明，有關程序部分，我們可以充分的說明。"],["賴委員士葆：好，那就不問你，我要問你，這個不應該只有國泰世華發生而已，其他的投信可能也有？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，所以我們……"],["賴委員士葆：你要不要全面清查？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，所以我們已經……"],["賴委員士葆：什麼時候全面清查？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們現在已經開始在做了，我們已經請投信投顧公會先開始，我們已經請它開始要做這件事情，當然我也會請證期局，因為這個部分很攸關到我們投資標的合法性……"],["賴委員士葆：這個太重要了，這個東西……"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，所以這件事情其實……"],["賴委員士葆：不應該犯這種叫做低級的錯誤，怎麼可能……電腦一按就知道了，怎麼會讓這個事情發生？怎麼會後面這麼亂七八糟，而且拖這麼久的時間，讓大家不可思議啊，所以我才給你下一個標就是監理擺爛，你不痛不癢，沒有報就沒有……你們應該有一個主動auditing的機制。"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實我跟委員報告，就是說……"],["賴委員士葆：主要他們投資的，因為證交所、期交所都在你手上，對不對？你們應該叫它periodically定期的一些資訊要給你們，看一下它裡面的投資標的有沒有違反到這個東西，應該要有啊！"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，當然我們有我們定期查核的工作……"],["賴委員士葆：目前沒有。"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實我們有幾道防線，政府的監理已經是最後一道了，我想說他內部本來就應該都有規定，各個公司不管哪家公司，它都有規定說多久要申報……"],["賴委員士葆：你都要相信它？那就不用你們啦！"],["彭主任委員金隆：都要申報，但他們沒有落實這件事情，它為什麼沒有落實他們自己的規定，這我們要來檢討。"],["賴委員士葆：你對它有沒有處罰？"],["彭主任委員金隆：因為這個處罰是要把所有事情釐清，就跟法院要判刑，一定要把所有事證確定才能夠做。"],["賴委員士葆：是，如果現在調查的結果就是這麼大的漏洞，最高處罰是怎麼樣？罰錢嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：上次我們在記者會有說明，在投信投顧法……"],["賴委員士葆：來，講一下罰多少錢？"],["高局長晶萍：違反投信投顧法的話，最高是罰到300萬。"],["賴委員士葆：可以撤照嗎？能不能撤照？"],["高局長晶萍：法規裡面也是有這樣規定。"],["賴委員士葆：這麼嚴重的事情，出了這麼大的紕漏！另外，我想要問，你可以看到今天有媒體揭露PChome的Pi錢包被駭，損失影響了350萬戶的個資全部外洩，它是臺灣第一家遭到勒索軟體入侵的第三方支付業者，金管會怎麼看這個事情？"],["彭主任委員金隆：任何一個機構，不止金融機構或者第三方支付……今天我有看到數發部已經迅速採取一些動作，我想這個也給我們很多警惕，我們這邊也有電資，也有銀行，都要注意這些事情，這也是我們在去年頒布資安韌性藍圖時特別特別強調的，未來最大的風險之一就是資安風險，特別是金融機構擁有這麼多的客戶資料，還有會影響整個金融安定。第三方支付被駭，我想我們也會來提醒……"],["賴委員士葆：你們要不要再啟動，對於銀行、金控的資安全面再做一次檢查，有沒有這個必要？"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實這隨時都在做，我們不久前才剛結束整個大型的資安演練……"],["賴委員士葆：什麼時候？"],["彭主任委員金隆：應該是上個禮拜還是兩禮拜前。"],["賴委員士葆：結果通通很好？"],["彭主任委員金隆：不是，不是都很好，大家資安演練本來就是要不斷地用一些情境去測試。"],["賴委員士葆：你給他們打的分數都是A級嗎？還是B級？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我沒有這個數據，回去我再提供給委員，看他們這次的……"],["賴委員士葆：好，提供給我們這次他們資安的檢定結果是什麼，好不好？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，這次演練的狀況，我會再跟委員報告。"],["賴委員士葆：好，你請回。我請財政部的次長。"],["主席：陳次長。"],["陳次長勇勝：主席好，賴委員好。"],["賴委員士葆：你聽一下一個題目，你們部長講了一些話，有關於臺美避免雙重課稅，在這個地方我不知道問多久了，你們答案都是：今年秋天……但美國眾議院去年就通過了，現在還在參議院，參議院今年大概因為他們要選舉了，如果你了解美國參議院的一些運作方式，就知道今年底幾乎不可能，這個東西財政部有沒有什麼辦法再push美國快一點？"],["陳次長勇勝：謝謝賴委員，我想過去這幾年財政部跟外交部，還有包括駐美的代表，對於ADTA的部分我們都積極在push，讓它的法案能夠儘速在兩院來通過，並且能讓美國總統來核定……"],["賴委員士葆：現在我就告訴你卡在參議院。"],["陳次長勇勝：是，年底……"],["賴委員士葆：最後一個小問題，我替你們的基層人員講話，現在說軍公教要調薪，不管調3%、4%、5%，人總特別講有一個專業加給，你可以看現在的稅捐稽徵所、最基層的幾乎缺20%，找不到人、又辛苦、他的加給又少，這部分你們要不要跟人總請命專業加給要提高，否則你找不到基層的稅務人員？我現在就告訴你，每一個地方比如說臺北市政府大安稽徵所底下的人，還有文山區也一樣，這些現在平均都缺20%，專業加給……"],["陳次長勇勝：謝謝賴委員，我想今天剛好是稅務節，也謝謝委員跟我們一起向人總反映稅務同仁的辛苦，在專業加給的部分……"],["賴委員士葆：想辦法加專業加給，留住更多的人，讓他們願意來財政部，好不好？"],["陳次長勇勝：好，謝謝委員的肯定。"],["主席：謝謝賴士葆委員。","下一個請郭國文委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":556,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-20-20","speakers":["吳秉叡","林德福","賴士葆","郭國文","林岱樺","劉書彬","賴惠員","李彥秀","顏寬恒","羅明才","陳玉珍","王世堅","李坤城","林楚茵","許忠信","楊瓊瓔","林思銘"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2026-07-01"],"gazette_id":"1155602","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155602_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、彙總整理提出「中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案審查總報告（公務預算部分）草案」提\n報院會案；二、彙總整理提出「中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業及非營業\n部分審查總報告草案」提報院會案；三、審查本院委員吳秉叡等20人擬具「會計師法部分條文修\n正草案」案；四、審查本院委員吳秉叡等21人、委員李彥秀等18人分別擬具「證券交易稅條例第\n二條之一條文修正草案」等2案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1155602_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}