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果單獨用這個表像這張圖你看不見我的EEZ所以你回過頭來"},{"start":244.827,"end":266.605,"text":"你看這個圖的EEZ就出來了那這是我的產權登記所以我要讓你日本菲律賓駐台的代表了解我至於你們兩個談的不涉及三章不涉及到第三方權益我沒意見但是我的權益我自己先要表述因為同樣的標準充值鳥交"},{"start":268.274,"end":290.5,"text":"日本把他划了200里进击海域而且他还依法执行所以说我们的渔船过去啊还被扣留罚钱过所以这个我觉得外交部的立场要能够说明那这张图啊这个图我花了很多的功夫啊做过校正这个就是太平岛因为这个南海仲裁庭啊把太平岛说他是"},{"start":292.139,"end":303.846,"text":"所以你有領海但是沒有EEZ可是因為我們跟旁邊的那些島礁距離很近所以我們太平島用的是近限制水域"},{"start":304.721,"end":333.288,"text":"那前一阵子有一个这个海巡呢有看到就中共的船进来但是他在三分钟内就从2000码冲到4000码所以说他是20节的速度冲他是打擦边球非常危险的我们现在在外离岛啊海巡的同仁背负了很大的责任啊要执行这些任务当然他的讯号并不是岛上的雷达像在这个东沙岛啊他是"},{"start":334.537,"end":341.447,"text":"有领海基线12里24里以岛上的平面雷达看的话他是看不到是24里的所以他可能要用AIS"},{"start":343.269,"end":365.949,"text":"傳播追蹤系統 比對再派出船做有效的攔截這個圖裡面不只是太平島還有中洲礁還有敦謙沙洲那都被越南佔領了所以我們要跟別人溝通的時候要拿一個圖涵蓋出比較大的範圍上面這個圖就是我們政府公布的圖每一個島礁離島都是這樣子"},{"start":369.693,"end":376.202,"text":"雖然他講說用WGS84實際上這是示意圖他並不精準所以這個部分"},{"start":377.438,"end":403.13,"text":"这个我们国防部可能要请海军大海局配合把每一个公布的图的经纬度校正还有比例尺要量出来像这个图下面那个黄线5000公尺再去比照太平岛的长度如果你只是上上面这个白色的图你叫我们一般的国人或是其他部会的人做判断比较掌握不住那这个做个参考"},{"start":405.181,"end":428.09,"text":"我再提一下今天這個島上還特別我標了兩個7點今天早上是7點30分的就是在太平島周遭還有在這個敦謙還有這個敦謙外面也有船像這些東西可以顯示出來的他什麼時候會轉向這就是AIS關掉了但是他是個下毛的船不了解"},{"start":430.199,"end":455.728,"text":"这个是东沙群岛的环礁同样因为这个是有临海基线所以他有12里24里在这种情况下以岛上的雷达是无法24里外去看一个水面目标他一定要透过AIS船舶追踪系统比较到了不明的目标把AIS关掉的我们的船去临检这是早上这个7点10分的有三个在24里外的"},{"start":456.408,"end":471.965,"text":"所以有這些圖像經過校正比對以後我們政府各機關的判斷上會比較客觀我們也希望在解釋的時候因為灰色地帶是一個名詞還有一個叫做灰都叫灰色地帶"},{"start":472.546,"end":487.187,"text":"可是在法律的界定裡面那是灰色區塊就是說我們引述的條例跟案例時間不同不管你是從國際法海洋法海洋法公爵甚至我們看在這個荷姆茲海峽裡面"},{"start":488.228,"end":508.427,"text":"没有一方是遵守国际法因为他解释的定义通通挑一个对他有利的条款这个没有对错但是这个部分呢我觉得外交部调法师也好是外交学院以后在这地方我们提供一些参考的图资那在对国外沟通的时候你有一个利润的参考做一个依据"},{"start":509.068,"end":537.52,"text":"那最後這個是我就不去敘述這只是一個建言不管我們政府也該採購的行政院該做的國防部要做的外交部陸委會國安單位海委會海巡署我們都有角色站在立法院我們是支持國家維護權益的這個論述但是呢有些部分呢就是因為沒有一個完整的圖像在解釋的時候有些屬意會偏差這個部分是不是請顧部長給一些回應"},{"start":538.493,"end":549.199,"text":"可是那個我想有關於限制或禁止水域及限制區域有國安部公告,那剛剛委員所指教的那些公告的部分我們下去了解一下,它那個詳細的經緯度的一個狀況"},{"start":552.861,"end":577.677,"text":"好 那外交部這邊你們多一點回應感謝委員這麼用心 那麼我覺得這個是一個共識那麼就我們有法有據來維護我國的這個主權這是我們政府責無旁貸的一個責任我們會根據這個委員的這個指示 相關的這個仔細的情資然後能夠跟我們的這個有謀 理念相近的國家來做良好的溝通"},{"start":578.337,"end":605.053,"text":"那麼同樣我們都有一樣的一個精神就是說對於中國不斷的這樣的一個洗腦那麼侵犯我國的這個海洋的權利以及我們的這個主權那麼我們都非常的在乎那我們會採取一切必要的手段那麼跟立法院一起能夠維護我國的主權維護我國的這個海洋的權利我們在這事情上面全力的跟委員一起的來配合來進行"},{"start":606.789,"end":609.232,"text":"好 謝謝 維護國家權益啊 要大家共同努力 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-01T09:42:30+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T09:42:31+08:00","text":"主席，有請國防部顧部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T09:42:31+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T09:42:32+08:00","text":"有請顧部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-01T09:42:32+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T09:42:33+08:00","text":"還有外交部陳次長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T09:42:33+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T09:42:34+08:00","text":"請次長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-01T09:42:34+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T09:42:35+08:00","text":"部長早、次長早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T09:42:30.309000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:42:31.210000+08:00","text":"是，陳委員早。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-01T09:42:31.210000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:42:40.462000+08:00","text":"部長，剛才上一個委員的質詢，對在野黨的意見我們聽懂了，我到時候再私下跟你們解釋，因為我們很快禮拜五就會討論這個議題。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-01T09:42:41.683000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:43:05.137000+08:00","text":"在這邊不是政黨的辯論，我們也支持，裡面有很多不同的條件論，我們不應該去為國防部決定打什麼仗，這是國防部的規劃，但是有關預算的編列，我想在核定上我們內部應該會支持，並不會匡了一個，然後我們再來整你把它砍掉，所以對於剛才的那個問題，你的心情可以稍微放鬆一點，那個我們再溝通。","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T09:43:06.917000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:43:15.140000+08:00","text":"這樣的話，我們到時候提出中央政府總預算讓大院來審查，就這個部分委員就不用審查了嗎？","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-01T09:43:15.521000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:43:20.285000+08:00","text":"是審查時會溝通，但也不是拿這個來當作掐脖子的一個手段。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T09:43:20.445000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:43:25.490000+08:00","text":"那這樣立法的本質意義我就有點不是很理解了。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-01T09:43:26.651000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:43:44.184000+08:00","text":"這邊我們就不針對細節去討論了，我要特別講，在今年的7月12號是南海仲裁庭10週年，當年一公布出來的時候，我們的蔡英文總統就完全反對，也就是不支持它的論述，這個是菲律賓所提出來的。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-01T09:43:44.844000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:43:59.539000+08:00","text":"它的起因是從黃岩島的因素去談，接著在2000年的時候我們外交部又重新提出。","quality":0.774},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-01T09:44:00.703000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:44:04.513000+08:00","text":"對於南海仲裁庭的結論我們是不接受的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-01T09:44:04.894000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:44:15.006000+08:00","text":"因為到這個月的12號馬上就是10週年，我想有些立場可能要請外交部的同仁做個說明，我們現在先進行……","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-01T09:44:16.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:44:36.542000+08:00","text":"因為今天主要談的是中共灰色地帶，在國際現實上各位可以看到它的方法、目的、手段與具體的行動，如何用海上民兵、海警船、科研船交惡，然後以文攻武嚇、經貿脅迫、反對外力介入，這是它的目的、方法、手段。","quality":0.807},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-01T09:44:38.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:44:45.049000+08:00","text":"在這個過程中間，我想不管是國防部、陸委會、海委會、外交部，我們在跨部會之間有一個很好的協商機制。","quality":0.595},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-01T09:44:46.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:45:15.484000+08:00","text":"但是各位看這張圖，這個圖是內政部公布的，我們領海法規定的基線有12浬、24浬，至於EEZ則是由內政部公布，但是今天、現在談的都是禁限制水域，這是根據陸委會兩岸人民關係條例訂定的外島、離島禁限制水域，所以它的框架、範圍是一樣，但是解釋的條款卻不一樣。","quality":0.62},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-01T09:45:15.944000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:45:45.107000+08:00","text":"各位看到中間臺灣被環繞的圖，這就是我們的EEZ，這個科研船「向陽紅22」號走的行徑，這個陸艦走過來，我們用校準過的圖片套疊，這次「向陽紅22」號是在日本的EEZ，所以理論上這一段，我們不支持它的行動，但是在法律上我們不去做批評指教。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-01T09:45:46.308000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:45:58.355000+08:00","text":"然而在國際法上往往會有一個雙標，但是你看看那個圖的右下角，有一個圓框框，那就是沖之鳥礁，你看，日本把它公布成EEZ了。","quality":0.623},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-01T09:45:58.915000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:46:13.468000+08:00","text":"也就是說當我們的漁船在那邊的時候有被日本扣留、罰款，這個部分希望外交部在立場上，也就是在日本、菲律賓談判的過程中，我們不介入。","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-01T09:46:14.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:46:26.919000+08:00","text":"他講不影響第三方的權益，這個權益不是影響不影響，我覺得我們要向菲、日駐臺的辦公室做個表達，把我的圖畫出來。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-01T09:46:26.919000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:47:08.337000+08:00","text":"因為如果單獨用表象的這張圖，你看不見我的EEZ，所以你回過頭來看這個圖的EEZ就出來了，這是我的產權，有我的產權登記，所以我要讓日本、菲律賓的駐臺代表了解，至於你們兩個談的不涉及第三方權益的，我沒意見，但是我的權益我自己要先表述，因為以同樣的標準，日本把沖之鳥礁劃入了200浬經濟海域，而且還依法執行，所以我們的漁船過去還被扣留、罰錢過，我覺得外交部的立場要能夠說明。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-01T09:47:13.018000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:47:33.826000+08:00","text":"這張圖我花了很多功夫，也做過校正，這個就是太平島，因為南海仲裁庭說太平島是岩礁，所以你有領海，但是沒有EEZ，可是因為我們跟旁邊的島礁距離很近，所以我們太平島用的是禁限制水域。","quality":0.825},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-01T09:47:35.621000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:47:48.024000+08:00","text":"前一陣子有個海巡看到有中共的船進來，它在3分鐘內就從2,000碼衝到4,000碼，所以它是以20節的速度在衝，它在打擦邊球，這是非常危險的。","quality":0.537},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-01T09:47:48.744000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:48:18.133000+08:00","text":"現在我們在外離島的海巡同仁背負了很大的責任，要執行這些任務，當然，他的訊號並不是島上的雷達，像東沙島，它是有領海基線12浬、24浬，以島上的平面雷達看的話，他是看不到24浬的，所以他可能要用AIS（船舶追蹤系統）比對，再派出船做有效攔截。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-01T09:48:19.495000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:48:32.506000+08:00","text":"這個圖裡面不只有太平島，還有中洲礁，還有敦謙沙洲，那些都被越南占領了，所以我們跟別人溝通的時候要拿一個圖涵蓋出比較大的範圍。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-01T09:48:32.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:49:01.524000+08:00","text":"上面這個圖是我們政府公布的圖，每一個島礁、離島都是這樣，雖然它講用WGS-84，但實際上這是示意圖，它並不精準，所以國防部可能要請海軍大海局配合，把每一個公布的圖的經緯度校正，還有比例尺要量出來，像這個圖下面的那個黃線5000m，再去比照太平島的長度。","quality":0.796},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-01T09:49:02.185000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:49:11.809000+08:00","text":"如果只是上面這個白色的圖，要一般國人或是其他部會做判斷，比較掌握不住。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-01T09:49:12.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:49:13.110000+08:00","text":"這個做個參考。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-01T09:49:15.181000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:49:15.661000+08:00","text":"我再提一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-01T09:49:16.081000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:49:38.070000+08:00","text":"今天這個圖上我還特別標了2個，今天早上7點30分，在太平島周遭，還有在敦謙外面，也有船，這些東西是可以顯示出來的，但是AIS關掉了，它什麼時候會轉向、它是不是下錨的船，不了解。","quality":0.797},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-01T09:49:40.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:50:05.708000+08:00","text":"這個是東沙群島及環礁，同樣因為有領海基線，所以它有12浬、24浬，在這種情況下，以島上的雷達是無法去看24浬外的水面目標，他一定要透過AIS（船舶追蹤系統），比較到了不明目標，至於把AIS關掉的，我們的船去臨檢，這是早上7點10分的，有3個，在24浬外的。","quality":0.624},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-01T09:50:06.648000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:50:14.517000+08:00","text":"有這些圖像，經過校正比對以後，政府各機關的判斷上會比較客觀。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-01T09:50:15.298000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:50:58.227000+08:00","text":"在解釋的時候，因為灰色地帶是一個名詞，都叫gray zone，可是在法律的界定裡面，那是灰色區塊，就是我們引述的條例和案例時間不同，不管是從國際法、海洋法、海洋法公約，甚至我們看，在荷姆茲海峽裡面，沒有一方是遵守國際法，因為他解釋的定義通通挑一個對他有利的條款，這個沒有對錯，但是我覺得外交部條法司也好，外交學院也好，在這個地方，我們提供參考的圖資，在對國外溝通的時候，你有一個立論的參考做依據。","quality":0.746},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-01T09:50:59.668000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:51:02.850000+08:00","text":"最後這個，我就不去敘述，這只是一個建言。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-01T09:51:03.410000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:51:27.520000+08:00","text":"不管是政府該做的、行政院該做的、國防部要做的，外交部、陸委會、國安單位、海委會、海巡署，都有角色，站在立法院的立場，我們是支持國家維護權益的論述，但是有些部分就是因為沒有一個完整的圖像，在解釋的時候，有些時候會偏差，這個部分是不是請顧部長給予一些回應？","quality":0.928},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T09:51:30.374000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:51:39.199000+08:00","text":"有關限制或禁止水域及限制區域，由國防部公告，剛剛委員所指教的那些公告部分，我們會下去了解一下詳細的經緯度狀況。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-01T09:51:43.221000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:51:45.903000+08:00","text":"外交部，你們做一點回應。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-07-01T09:51:45.903000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:51:57.530000+08:00","text":"感謝委員這麼用心，我覺得這個是一個共識，我們有法有據來維護我國的主權，政府責無旁貸。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-07-01T09:51:58.411000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:52:35.033000+08:00","text":"我們會根據委員這個指示、詳細的相關情資跟我們的友盟、理念相近國家來做良好溝通，我們都有一樣的精神，就是對於中國這樣不斷的襲擾，侵犯我國的海洋權利，以及我們的主權，我們都非常在乎，我們會採取一切必要的手段，跟立法院一起維護我國的主權、維護我國的海洋權利，我們在這件事情上面全力跟委員一起配合進行。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-01T09:52:36.789000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:52:37.790000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-01T09:52:37.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:52:39.232000+08:00","text":"維護國家權益，要大家共同努力，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T09:52:39.732000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T09:52:44.303429+08:00","text":"謝謝陳永康委員，接下來請王定宇委員。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":300,"blocks":[["陳委員永康：（9時42分）主席，有請國防部顧部長。"],["主席：有請顧部長。"],["陳委員永康：還有外交部陳次長。"],["主席：請次長。"],["陳委員永康：部長早、次長早。"],["顧部長立雄：是，陳委員早。"],["陳委員永康：部長，剛才上一個委員的質詢，對在野黨的意見我們聽懂了，我到時候再私下跟你們解釋，因為我們很快禮拜五就會討論這個議題。在這邊不是政黨的辯論，我們也支持，裡面有很多不同的條件論，我們不應該去為國防部決定打什麼仗，這是國防部的規劃，但是有關預算的編列，我想在核定上我們內部應該會支持，並不會匡了一個，然後我們再來整你把它砍掉，所以對於剛才的那個問題，你的心情可以稍微放鬆一點，那個我們再溝通。"],["顧部長立雄：這樣的話，我們到時候提出中央政府總預算讓大院來審查，就這個部分委員就不用審查了嗎？"],["陳委員永康：是審查時會溝通，但也不是拿這個來當作掐脖子的一個手段。"],["顧部長立雄：那這樣立法的本質意義我就有點不是很理解了。"],["陳委員永康：這邊我們就不針對細節去討論了，我要特別講，在今年的7月12號是南海仲裁庭10週年，當年一公布出來的時候，我們的蔡英文總統就完全反對，也就是不支持它的論述，這個是菲律賓所提出來的。它的起因是從黃岩島的因素去談，接著在2000年的時候我們外交部又重新提出。對於南海仲裁庭的結論我們是不接受的。因為到這個月的12號馬上就是10週年，我想有些立場可能要請外交部的同仁做個說明，我們現在先進行……","因為今天主要談的是中共灰色地帶，在國際現實上各位可以看到它的方法、目的、手段與具體的行動，如何用海上民兵、海警船、科研船交惡，然後以文攻武嚇、經貿脅迫、反對外力介入，這是它的目的、方法、手段。在這個過程中間，我想不管是國防部、陸委會、海委會、外交部，我們在跨部會之間有一個很好的協商機制。但是各位看這張圖，這個圖是內政部公布的，我們領海法規定的基線有12浬、24浬，至於EEZ則是由內政部公布，但是今天、現在談的都是禁限制水域，這是根據陸委會兩岸人民關係條例訂定的外島、離島禁限制水域，所以它的框架、範圍是一樣，但是解釋的條款卻不一樣。","各位看到中間臺灣被環繞的圖，這就是我們的EEZ，這個科研船「向陽紅22」號走的行徑，這個陸艦走過來，我們用校準過的圖片套疊，這次「向陽紅22」號是在日本的EEZ，所以理論上這一段，我們不支持它的行動，但是在法律上我們不去做批評指教。然而在國際法上往往會有一個雙標，但是你看看那個圖的右下角，有一個圓框框，那就是沖之鳥礁，你看，日本把它公布成EEZ了。","也就是說當我們的漁船在那邊的時候有被日本扣留、罰款，這個部分希望外交部在立場上，也就是在日本、菲律賓談判的過程中，我們不介入。他講不影響第三方的權益，這個權益不是影響不影響，我覺得我們要向菲、日駐臺的辦公室做個表達，把我的圖畫出來。因為如果單獨用表象的這張圖，你看不見我的EEZ，所以你回過頭來看這個圖的EEZ就出來了，這是我的產權，有我的產權登記，所以我要讓日本、菲律賓的駐臺代表了解，至於你們兩個談的不涉及第三方權益的，我沒意見，但是我的權益我自己要先表述，因為以同樣的標準，日本把沖之鳥礁劃入了200浬經濟海域，而且還依法執行，所以我們的漁船過去還被扣留、罰錢過，我覺得外交部的立場要能夠說明。","這張圖我花了很多功夫，也做過校正，這個就是太平島，因為南海仲裁庭說太平島是岩礁，所以你有領海，但是沒有EEZ，可是因為我們跟旁邊的島礁距離很近，所以我們太平島用的是禁限制水域。前一陣子有個海巡看到有中共的船進來，它在3分鐘內就從2,000碼衝到4,000碼，所以它是以20節的速度在衝，它在打擦邊球，這是非常危險的。現在我們在外離島的海巡同仁背負了很大的責任，要執行這些任務，當然，他的訊號並不是島上的雷達，像東沙島，它是有領海基線12浬、24浬，以島上的平面雷達看的話，他是看不到24浬的，所以他可能要用AIS（船舶追蹤系統）比對，再派出船做有效攔截。這個圖裡面不只有太平島，還有中洲礁，還有敦謙沙洲，那些都被越南占領了，所以我們跟別人溝通的時候要拿一個圖涵蓋出比較大的範圍。","上面這個圖是我們政府公布的圖，每一個島礁、離島都是這樣，雖然它講用WGS-84，但實際上這是示意圖，它並不精準，所以國防部可能要請海軍大海局配合，把每一個公布的圖的經緯度校正，還有比例尺要量出來，像這個圖下面的那個黃線5000m，再去比照太平島的長度。如果只是上面這個白色的圖，要一般國人或是其他部會做判斷，比較掌握不住。這個做個參考。","我再提一下。今天這個圖上我還特別標了2個，今天早上7點30分，在太平島周遭，還有在敦謙外面，也有船，這些東西是可以顯示出來的，但是AIS關掉了，它什麼時候會轉向、它是不是下錨的船，不了解。這個是東沙群島及環礁，同樣因為有領海基線，所以它有12浬、24浬，在這種情況下，以島上的雷達是無法去看24浬外的水面目標，他一定要透過AIS（船舶追蹤系統），比較到了不明目標，至於把AIS關掉的，我們的船去臨檢，這是早上7點10分的，有3個，在24浬外的。","有這些圖像，經過校正比對以後，政府各機關的判斷上會比較客觀。在解釋的時候，因為灰色地帶是一個名詞，都叫gray zone，可是在法律的界定裡面，那是灰色區塊，就是我們引述的條例和案例時間不同，不管是從國際法、海洋法、海洋法公約，甚至我們看，在荷姆茲海峽裡面，沒有一方是遵守國際法，因為他解釋的定義通通挑一個對他有利的條款，這個沒有對錯，但是我覺得外交部條法司也好，外交學院也好，在這個地方，我們提供參考的圖資，在對國外溝通的時候，你有一個立論的參考做依據。","最後這個，我就不去敘述，這只是一個建言。不管是政府該做的、行政院該做的、國防部要做的，外交部、陸委會、國安單位、海委會、海巡署，都有角色，站在立法院的立場，我們是支持國家維護權益的論述，但是有些部分就是因為沒有一個完整的圖像，在解釋的時候，有些時候會偏差，這個部分是不是請顧部長給予一些回應？"],["顧部長立雄：有關限制或禁止水域及限制區域，由國防部公告，剛剛委員所指教的那些公告部分，我們會下去了解一下詳細的經緯度狀況。"],["陳委員永康：外交部，你們做一點回應。"],["陳次長明祺：感謝委員這麼用心，我覺得這個是一個共識，我們有法有據來維護我國的主權，政府責無旁貸。我們會根據委員這個指示、詳細的相關情資跟我們的友盟、理念相近國家來做良好溝通，我們都有一樣的精神，就是對於中國這樣不斷的襲擾，侵犯我國的海洋權利，以及我們的主權，我們都非常在乎，我們會採取一切必要的手段，跟立法院一起維護我國的主權、維護我國的海洋權利，我們在這件事情上面全力跟委員一起配合進行。"],["陳委員永康：好，謝謝。維護國家權益，要大家共同努力，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳永康委員，接下來請王定宇委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":386,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-35-24","speakers":["陳冠廷","陳俊宇","羅美玲","陳永康","王定宇","林楚茵","陳雪生","馬文君","王義川","沈伯洋","牛煦庭","王安祥","許忠信","鍾佳濱","黃建賓","賴士葆","翁曉玲","郭昱晴","黃仁","邱志偉"],"page_start":313,"meetingDate":["2026-07-01"],"gazette_id":"1155601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155601_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第24次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部、外交部、海洋委員會海巡署、大陸委員會報告「中國船舶常態化巡弋我國海域之因\n應作為」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1155601_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}