{"error":false,"id":["170198"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170198,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170198","日期":"2026-07-01","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-20-20","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":20,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-07-01T09:51:28+08:00","結束時間":"2026-07-01T10:02:29+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:01","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/10566d69eaf1b9acec142d157ae77cbdca9306fd69d22fc081ccc59e5c6864172cf89a319f4586af5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭國文","委員發言時間":"09:51:28 - 10:02:29","會議時間":"2026-07-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：一、彙總整理提出「中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案審查總報告（公務預算部分）草案」提報院會案。\n二、彙總整理提出「中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業及非營業部分審查總報告草案」提報院會案。\n三、審查本院委員吳秉叡等20人擬具「會計師法部分條文修正草案」案。（詢答及處理）\n四、審查本院委員吳秉叡等21人、委員李彥秀等18人分別擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之一條文修正草案」等2案。（僅詢答）\n【7月1日及2日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":0.03096875,"end":0.8240937500000001,"speaker_score":0.732},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":8.82284375,"end":10.392218750000001,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":11.269718750000003,"end":12.602843750000002,"speaker_score":0.732},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":16.36596875,"end":16.83846875,"speaker_score":0.732},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":16.83846875,"end":16.872218750000002,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":17.05784375,"end":40.024718750000005,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":22.27221875,"end":22.44096875,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":24.58409375,"end":24.938468750000002,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":40.68284375,"end":50.132843750000006,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":50.62221875,"end":52.52909375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":53.06909375,"end":56.393468750000004,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":56.84909375,"end":63.80159375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":63.98721875000001,"end":72.99846875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":73.25159375,"end":85.19909375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":86.09346875,"end":87.00471875000001,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":87.35909375,"end":91.88159375000001,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":92.26971875000001,"end":104.16659375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":104.70659375000001,"end":114.79784375000001,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":115.35471875,"end":116.80596875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":116.97471875000001,"end":121.71659375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":119.35409375,"end":119.60721875,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":121.59846875000001,"end":123.69096875000001,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":123.69096875000001,"end":125.24346875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":125.24346875,"end":129.02346875,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":127.52159375000001,"end":127.90971875000001,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":129.02346875,"end":139.19909375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":140.26221875000002,"end":142.37159375000002,"speaker_score":0.732},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":140.32971875,"end":141.37596875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"吳委員秉叡","start":142.40534375000001,"end":145.51034375,"speaker_score":0.732},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":142.55721875,"end":143.41784375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":145.52721875,"end":146.67471875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":147.45096875000002,"end":149.81346875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"李總經理愛玲","start":151.31534375,"end":152.07471875000002,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":151.36596875,"end":152.44596875000002,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":152.68221875,"end":152.90159375000002,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"李總經理愛玲","start":152.90159375000002,"end":157.62659375,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":158.13284375,"end":160.46159375000002,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"李總經理愛玲","start":159.51659375,"end":161.69346875000002,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":161.11971875,"end":162.70596875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"李總經理愛玲","start":163.29659375,"end":169.47284375,"speaker_score":0.951},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":168.13971875000001,"end":169.25346875000002,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":169.47284375,"end":173.20221875000001,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":173.74221875,"end":175.64909375000002,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":176.13846875000002,"end":178.73721875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":179.32784375,"end":183.17534375000002,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":184.66034375,"end":185.58846875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":186.04409375,"end":188.64284375000003,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":189.36846875,"end":191.71409375000002,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":192.23721875,"end":193.33409375000002,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":192.91221875000002,"end":204.08346875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":204.47159375,"end":205.70346875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":206.07471875000002,"end":207.20534375000003,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":208.20096875000002,"end":209.56784375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":210.58034375000003,"end":211.23846875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":211.89659375000002,"end":213.93846875000003,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":214.79909375000003,"end":216.48659375000003,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":217.02659375000002,"end":219.87846875000002,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":220.09784375,"end":221.49846875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":220.14846875,"end":224.72159375,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":224.87346875,"end":228.99096875,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":228.61971875,"end":233.34471875000003,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":230.44221875000002,"end":231.30284375000002,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":233.56409375,"end":236.14596875,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":236.14596875,"end":241.30971875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":241.74846875000003,"end":242.81159375000001,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":243.19971875000002,"end":245.91659375,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":245.00534375,"end":246.96284375000002,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":247.45221875000001,"end":247.46909375,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":247.46909375,"end":249.24096875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":247.48596875,"end":247.72221875000002,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":249.42659375000002,"end":252.70034375000003,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":251.90721875000003,"end":255.26534375000003,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":255.26534375000003,"end":271.02659375,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":271.02659375,"end":272.84909375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":273.30471875,"end":279.24471875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":279.56534375,"end":289.53846875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":287.39534375,"end":289.25159375000004,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":289.50471875,"end":294.02721875000003,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":291.68159375,"end":292.18784375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":293.09909375,"end":296.65971875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":296.65971875,"end":300.69284375,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":299.61284375,"end":299.78159375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":299.81534375,"end":299.83221875000004,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":300.79409375,"end":302.44784375,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":302.85284375000003,"end":306.59909375,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":306.63284375,"end":307.07159375000003,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":307.07159375000003,"end":312.45471875000004,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":313.14659375,"end":313.46721875000003,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":313.46721875000003,"end":314.46284375000005,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":314.46284375000005,"end":326.78159375,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":326.47784375000003,"end":326.57909375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":326.78159375,"end":326.96721875000003,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":326.96721875000003,"end":327.03471875,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":327.03471875,"end":328.90784375000004,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":329.27909375,"end":338.49284375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":339.20159375000003,"end":340.39971875000003,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":339.25221875,"end":341.34471875,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":341.34471875,"end":349.29284375000003,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":341.58096875,"end":342.03659375,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":349.76534375,"end":350.55846875000003,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":350.76096875,"end":353.05596875000003,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":353.12346875000003,"end":353.15721875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":353.17409375,"end":353.41034375000004,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":353.56221875,"end":354.60846875000004,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":354.57471875000005,"end":363.11346875000004,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":361.13909375000003,"end":361.18971875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":363.40034375000005,"end":372.19221875000005,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":372.00659375000004,"end":372.12471875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":372.19221875000005,"end":375.71909375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":376.15784375000004,"end":382.58721875000003,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":382.60409375,"end":394.38284375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":395.24346875000003,"end":402.61784375,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":402.12846875,"end":404.23784375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高局長晶萍","start":406.87034375,"end":411.35909375,"speaker_score":0.903},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":411.29159375,"end":415.08846875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":415.32471875000005,"end":418.42971875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":418.80096875000004,"end":421.02846875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":421.99034375,"end":428.13284375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高局長晶萍","start":429.06096875000003,"end":431.98034375000003,"speaker_score":0.903},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":429.97221875,"end":432.04784375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":433.65096875,"end":434.95034375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":435.50721875000005,"end":437.70096875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":438.15659375,"end":439.10159375,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":440.50221875000005,"end":445.63221875000005,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":445.85159375,"end":448.06221875000006,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":447.38721875000005,"end":448.31534375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":448.46721875000003,"end":451.04909375000005,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":451.35284375000003,"end":452.31471875000005,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":452.97284375000004,"end":453.90096875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":454.94721875000005,"end":465.81471875000005,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":466.50659375000004,"end":468.02534375000005,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":468.14346875,"end":470.03346875000005,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":470.43846875,"end":474.96096875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":476.19284375,"end":477.20534375000005,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":478.16721875,"end":485.86221875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":486.36846875000003,"end":487.31346875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":487.70159375000003,"end":489.11909375000005,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":489.54096875000005,"end":492.24096875000004,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":493.05096875000004,"end":494.28284375000004,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":495.83534375000005,"end":498.16409375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":498.67034375000003,"end":500.25659375000004,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":500.59409375,"end":503.34471875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":503.78346875000005,"end":507.85034375000004,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":510.01034375000006,"end":513.26721875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":513.55409375,"end":514.81971875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":514.8703437500001,"end":516.4228437500001,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":517.75596875,"end":519.5615937499999,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":520.9115937500001,"end":529.9397187500001,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":530.68221875,"end":532.38659375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":530.73284375,"end":530.85096875,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":530.86784375,"end":531.2222187500001,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":532.55534375,"end":552.07971875,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":551.4384687500001,"end":561.64784375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":562.8797187499999,"end":564.73596875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":565.46159375,"end":567.3684687500001,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":568.0265937500001,"end":571.3003437500001,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":571.5703437500001,"end":572.31284375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":572.92034375,"end":578.7422187500001,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":580.04159375,"end":591.04409375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":584.71596875,"end":585.0872187500001,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":589.33971875,"end":590.50409375,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":591.8203437500001,"end":594.01409375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":594.7397187500001,"end":596.8490937500001,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":597.3047187500001,"end":600.88221875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":601.9284687500001,"end":607.9865937500001,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":609.21846875,"end":611.9015937500001,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":610.61909375,"end":612.9140937500001,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":613.7409687500001,"end":621.95909375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":623.54534375,"end":624.1528437500001,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":624.37221875,"end":629.9578437499999,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":630.31221875,"end":635.4084687500001,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":636.9609687500001,"end":639.84659375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":640.1840937500001,"end":652.1147187500001,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":652.67159375,"end":654.35909375,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":654.35909375,"end":658.7465937500001,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":656.01284375,"end":656.58659375,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":656.99159375,"end":657.95346875,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":658.00409375,"end":658.4428437500001,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":659.42159375,"end":661.2947187500001,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":661.3115937500002,"end":661.32846875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"彭主任委員金隆","start":661.32846875,"end":662.64471875,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"郭委員國文","start":661.34534375,"end":661.36221875,"speaker_score":0.96}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.089,"end":12.479,"text":"委員質詢謝主席有請彭主委請金管會彭主委"},{"start":16.38,"end":39.654,"text":"委員早安主委好好你剛剛提到說呢要討論制度啦不要探討個案但是事件的本身有它的嚴重性如果沒有了解事件的話如何在制度裡頭做修改呢是剛剛也有委員提到說齁這個你承認啦這個治理失靈啦但是不承認齁這一個監理擺爛啦那我們就來看看啦那國泰怎麼內控失靈"},{"start":40.751,"end":51.42,"text":"就本席所得知的訊息國泰在1月20號的時候就已經處分完這四星KY的股票已經造成了損失喔1月20號喔居然1月23號在"},{"start":53.437,"end":71.967,"text":"給金管會一個文就稍微點到不明就裡的說有人去監職到三月的時候才告訴你說我違反立官這裡頭發現了幾個錯誤國泰第一個錯誤就是說上面的知道 金控知道 銀行知道這投信卻狀況外"},{"start":73.508,"end":85.024,"text":"這是非常奇怪的事情 非常荒謬啦第二個的部分呢3月17的時候呢 這個通告的經管會之後呢依法 它應該兩日內公告沒有 沒有公告"},{"start":86.158,"end":103.932,"text":"第三個呢他沒有進行任何一個內部的究責就只有請辭以示負責我看是以示卸責啦所以從這幾點來看的話國泰的部分違法的狀況我想請教一下主委第一個關西人交易的部分"},{"start":104.973,"end":121.098,"text":"違法 剛剛說要划三百萬好 第二個呢依照投信投告法八十一條的部分影響到受益人兩日內要公告結果呢 沒有公告這要怎麼處理主委 這兩個我就看看你要怎麼處理"},{"start":121.798,"end":149.383,"text":"委員就四個字啊 依法處理啊依法處理 那什麼時候處理啊我們把所有事實釐清以後我們就會依法處理就一併處理當然好 那第三個呢我就要請問一下證交所董事長啊這國泰投信呢 這是國泰金的中道公司呢結果只公布了一個請辭請證交所李愛玲總經理董事長有先跟我請假十點半以後才會列席就 就沒了那 那證交所有沒有要處罰"},{"start":151.564,"end":157.084,"text":"還是要一併處理報告委員因為這個案子的話呢相關的規定並不是在證交所這邊"},{"start":158.426,"end":183.05,"text":"重大訊息公佈不在你們嗎那有沒有違反你們要查啊那重大訊息的內容的話目前看起來是沒有違反那具體的話我們回去可以再檢視一次這麼重大的事項沒有在重大訊息裡頭公佈這實在很誇張那主委你剛剛提到說你不承認這個監理擺爛但是本席認為金管會實在過度輕忽啦"},{"start":184.721,"end":213.642,"text":"沒有監理擺爛但是這件事情喔搞到後來我認為啊不可收拾的原因是紙包不住火阿有1月20號已經處分完股票後續才紋來紋去你4月發一個紋6月發一個紋搞了5月6月的時候事情大爆發的時候你在精簡進駐那我會問阿你現在精簡進駐到這個國泰投信有沒有可能上述到國泰釋法有沒有可能上述到國泰金庫"},{"start":214.858,"end":241.127,"text":"如果事情發生有可能相關的人知情的情況底下呢你有沒有排除這個可能性剛剛檢察局局長已經說明了就是我們按照我們的那個進程如果有必要我們當然都要去有必要的時候要上座對不對這整個集團的問題耶這本來就是這樣我們檢查的實務就是這樣就你所說的如果治理失靈的話怎麼會只有國泰投信治理失靈而已呢"},{"start":242.086,"end":270.263,"text":"當然我們這個我們不能做這個推論國泰司法會排除嗎?國泰清空你就要排除嗎?我們沒有排除啊我只是說不排除對不對?必要精檢的時候擴大範圍是不是?我們現在的範圍呢是因為主要是現在國泰投信發生這個事情嘛我們當然現在精檢剛好進駐在國泰投信我們當然是按照這個來做剛剛局長也說了我們該查的我們就要查依法就要查"},{"start":270.523,"end":288.595,"text":"沒有 主委 我講實在話啦苦口婆心啦 跟你說啦外界說你會過度輕忽的原因啦跟台中銀行有點類似啦因為有老長官在那邊當門審啦之前台中銀行有李瑞昌 這次有王立民啦又加上一個吳當傑副主委啦這一組又一副啦委員 這些都不是我的老長官我也跟同仁講過我們金管會的老長官不是你的老長官 是底下的人的老長官啦"},{"start":296.761,"end":312.23,"text":"委員這一點我必須要說明現在我也跟我們同仁講金管會只有自己是監理官沒有老長官好沒有老長官那我就看你後續怎麼處理第二個你就看到國泰規模大你就輕忽嘛"},{"start":313.506,"end":338.063,"text":"第三個喔委員你可以說我輕忽但是我們這個部分呢我剛剛跟第一個委員我也跟他說明過了過去我們有我們一定的步驟這個東西我們要釐清我們不是只有檢查這個工具而已這件事情知識體大拖到這麼嚴重的情況底下很多人看不下去如果說你清楚知道治理失靈的話為什麼讓它失靈這麼久你們精檢局才會進入"},{"start":341.646,"end":362.679,"text":"就是說你過去一段時間以來你重視整個金融改革金融政策的一個開放但是監理的部分的這個把關絕對不能輕忽當然沒有輕忽委員剛才提到檢查是一個監理動作我們約尋他來也是個動作我們請他提供資料"},{"start":363.739,"end":381.659,"text":"補充也是一個監理動作檢查室我們說這些東西我們沒辦法需要到現場去因為我剛才講是主動通報他已經主動通報了那這樣子我們再繼續請教一下主委好了主委那個投信業當中在2024年的時候弄一個自律規範就是所謂的責任地圖"},{"start":382.827,"end":403.068,"text":"在責任地圖當中這些成員包括要納入讀懂的建議跟監察人的建議那我問一下這個責任地圖的問責委員會他們內部啟動了沒有我想我們規定這樣做他們就要做啊你有沒有查過嘛沒有我可以請我們局長來跟你簡單說明一下有沒有 局長來說一下"},{"start":406.926,"end":431.768,"text":"報告委員那我們是有要求他們都要訂有相關的責任地圖我今天講的自律機制的自律顯然是沒有自律嘛你們這個是白訂了嘛2024年責任地圖是卸責地圖還是責任地圖弄到現在事情發生這麼大條了問責委員會還沒有成立完全沒有自我檢討的能力嘛"},{"start":433.68,"end":453.676,"text":"那你還沒有要求他你們要求自律要求什麼的我們會來加強所以說你整個對這件事情真的是過度輕忽啦其實我們一向都非常重視結果呢這個郭明健就發表了六點聲明沒他的事啊沒他的事啊"},{"start":455.014,"end":474.781,"text":"之前呢銀行局也在用整個那個所謂的這個責任地圖也拖了到現在還沒有出來都失去時效好我再拉回來跟那個主委講一個很嚴肅的事情我覺得國泰金控啊他現在啊已經不是治理司令而已他會引發金融國安危機不久之前啊"},{"start":478.443,"end":507.691,"text":"國泰本身的信用卡核心系統的時候就爆出承包商的認知科技是中資企業主導者是誰 郭明健是其中之一主導者是誰 他是接下來接班人之一不是蔡鴻圖本身所以說這種事情就知識體大了這一次才看到郭明健他本身是香港籍的人士二來從四星KY到遠東紅信都有中資的色彩"},{"start":510.687,"end":529.688,"text":"遠東紅線背後的大股東又是中國中華集團體系被認定為中國央企的背景中國中國中國 全部都中國一個這麼大的金控公司你沒有到連想到中國是不是有刻意想要透過不同的方式來進駐整個金融體系嗎 主委"},{"start":530.851,"end":546.689,"text":"這事情大條目 你自己說嘛我想當然委員的顧慮有你的根據啦但是我說我們在從前一次那個國泰世華音樂它使用一個系統的問題我們也請它做妥善的處理一而再 再而三對"},{"start":547.91,"end":572.116,"text":"這件事情的話我們也會來關注這樣的一個狀況國泰釋法大到不得了國泰釋法不是單純的一個公司治理的問題它牽扯到整體金融國安危機的問題主委我要在這邊強烈建議你精簡單位既然已經納入了我要求類似這樣的問題要納入精簡範圍主委你回答一下"},{"start":572.967,"end":600.527,"text":"我想任何該釐清澄清的我們都有必要去澄清跟釐清該釐清澄清的這是一個基本上又模糊又有原則的說法但是具體的方式你要真的要審慎的態度面對這個問題這個問題真的很嚴重啦當然好 當然接下來你去看金融機構負責人兼職其實真的是要嚴格規範本席要探討這個制度面的問題"},{"start":601.974,"end":607.536,"text":"一個負責人 國泰釋法可以三檢四檢檢多少不會影響到他公司治理嗎數量也問題啦數量是一個問題對象也是一個問題經驗條款是一個問題還有包括可能造成立官的這個可能性要如何杜絕都是問題啦"},{"start":623.615,"end":652.001,"text":"所以你要開放給金融機構負責人做兼職的話一定要嚴格限制第二個 金融公司底下的資訊的共享也非常的重要你要去如何處理避免這次的情況產生當然啦還有啦 本席要嚴格要求啦你剛剛說你沒有老長官啦但是有一些讀懂 懂事去當門審的要如何去強化他們責任 這很重要你是不是在制度上來做一個約束跟管理"},{"start":652.966,"end":657.857,"text":"對 我們也正在做這件事好就這三點謝謝好好討論一下強化建立謝謝謝謝郭國文委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:51:37.076000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:51:38.277000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請彭主委。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T09:51:39.698000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:51:40.459000+08:00","text":"請金管會彭主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:51:44.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:51:45.120000+08:00","text":"委員早安。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:51:45.401000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:51:45.601000+08:00","text":"主委好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:51:46.181000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:51:56.247000+08:00","text":"你剛剛提到要討論制度，不要探討個案，但是事件的本身有它的嚴重性，如果沒有了解事件的話，如何在制度裡頭做修改呢？是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:51:56.447000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:52:07.654000+08:00","text":"剛剛也有委員提到，你承認治理失零，但是不承認監理擺爛，那我們就來看看國泰怎麼內控失靈啦！","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:52:08.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:52:17.498000+08:00","text":"就本席得知的訊息，國泰在1月20號的時候就已經處分完世芯─KY的股票造成損失，是在1月20號喔！","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:52:18.719000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:52:30.382000+08:00","text":"居然1月23號才給金管會一個文，稍微點到、不明就裡的說有人去兼職，但到3月的時候才告訴你說違反利關。","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:52:32.823000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:52:43.871000+08:00","text":"因此這裡頭發現了幾個錯誤，國泰第一個錯誤就是上面的金控知道、銀行知道，但投信卻狀況外，這實在是非常奇怪的事情，非常荒謬啦！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:52:44.312000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:52:53.003000+08:00","text":"第二個部分，在3月17通告了金管會之後，依法他應該兩日內要公告，但是沒有公告。","quality":0.781},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:52:54.158000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:53:02.845000+08:00","text":"第三個，他沒有進行任何一個內部的究責，就只有請辭以示負責，我看是以示「卸責」啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:53:04.006000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:53:25.777000+08:00","text":"所以從這幾點來看國泰違法的狀況，我想請教一下主委，第一個，關係人交易的部分違法，你剛剛說要罰300萬；第二個，依照投信投顧法第八十一條規定，影響到受益人要在兩日內公告，結果沒有公告，這要怎麼處理？","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:53:26.617000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:53:29.078000+08:00","text":"主委，你這兩個要怎麼處理？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:53:29.798000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:53:31.418000+08:00","text":"委員，就四個字「依法處理」啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:53:32.318000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:53:33.119000+08:00","text":"那什麼時候處理啊？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:53:33.319000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:53:36.419000+08:00","text":"我們把所有事實釐清以後就會依法處理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:53:36.619000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:53:37.499000+08:00","text":"一併處理？當然。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:53:37.819000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:53:48.801000+08:00","text":"好，第三個，我就要問一下證交所董事長，國泰投信是國泰金旗下的重要公司，結果只公布了一個請辭？","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T09:53:48.801000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:53:50.022000+08:00","text":"請證交所李愛玲總經理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T09:53:50.702000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:53:53.582000+08:00","text":"董事長有先跟我請假，10點30以後才會列席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:53:54.242000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:53:54.542000+08:00","text":"然後就沒了？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:53:56.743000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:53:57.383000+08:00","text":"證交所有沒有要處罰？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:53:59.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:54:00.186000+08:00","text":"還是要一併處理？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李總經理愛玲","start":"2026-07-01T09:54:01.069000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:54:05.084000+08:00","text":"報告委員，因為這個案子相關的規定並不是在證交所這邊。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:54:06.426000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:54:08.829000+08:00","text":"重大訊息公布不是在你們嗎？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"李總經理愛玲","start":"2026-07-01T09:54:08.829000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T09:54:09.829000+08:00","text":"重大訊息是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:54:09.329000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:54:10.490000+08:00","text":"有沒有違反你們要查啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"李總經理愛玲","start":"2026-07-01T09:54:11.591000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:54:17.277000+08:00","text":"重大訊息的內容，目前看起來是沒有違反，但具體的部分我們回去可以再檢視一次。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:54:17.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:54:21.821000+08:00","text":"你們查看看，這麼重大的事項沒有在重大訊息裡頭公布，這實在很誇張！","quality":0.793},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:54:21.961000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:54:39.406000+08:00","text":"主委，你剛剛提到你不承認監理擺爛，但是本席認為金管會實在過度輕忽，你說沒有監理擺爛，但是我認為這件事情搞到後來不可收拾的原因是紙包不住火啦！","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:54:39.406000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T09:54:41.147000+08:00","text":"其實跟委員……","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:54:41.147000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:54:44.850000+08:00","text":"哪有1月20號已經處分完股票，後續才文來文去？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:54:45.531000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:54:58.740000+08:00","text":"你4月發一個文，6月發一個文，5月、6月事情大爆發的時候，你再金檢進駐，所以我就問，現在金檢進駐到國泰投信，有沒有可能上溯到國泰世華？","quality":0.764},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:54:59.981000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:55:01.622000+08:00","text":"有沒有可能上溯到國泰金控？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:55:02.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:55:09.280000+08:00","text":"如果事情是在有可能相關的人知情的情況下……你有沒有排除這個可能性？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:55:09.940000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:55:16.583000+08:00","text":"剛剛檢查局局長已經說明了，按照我們的進程，如果有必要，我們當然都要……","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:55:16.803000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:55:19.844000+08:00","text":"有必要的時候要上溯，對不對？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:55:19.844000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T09:55:20.844000+08:00","text":"對，當然是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:55:19.844000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:55:21.104000+08:00","text":"這是整個集團的問題耶！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:55:21.884000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:55:24.185000+08:00","text":"這本來就是這樣，我們檢查的實務就是這樣。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:55:24.185000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:55:29.107000+08:00","text":"就你所說的，如果僅是治理失靈的話，怎麼會只有國泰投信治理失靈而已呢？","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:55:30.086000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:55:33.408000+08:00","text":"當然我們不能做這個推論。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:55:33.408000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:55:35.770000+08:00","text":"國泰世華會排除嗎？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:55:35.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:55:38.071000+08:00","text":"國泰金控就要排除嗎？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:55:38.071000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:55:40.272000+08:00","text":"不是，我們沒有排除，我只是說……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:55:40.272000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:55:41.313000+08:00","text":"不排除，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:55:41.313000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:55:43.014000+08:00","text":"必要時金檢會擴大範圍，是不是？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:55:43.354000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:55:58.243000+08:00","text":"我們現在金檢的範圍，因為主要是國泰投信發生這個事情，而現在金檢剛好進駐在國泰投信，我們當然是按照這個來做，剛剛局長也說了，我們該查的我們依法就要查。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:55:58.523000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:56:14.854000+08:00","text":"沒有，主委，我講實在話，苦口婆心跟你說，外界說你會過度輕忽的原因跟台中銀行有點類似，因為有老長官在那邊當門神，之前台中銀行有李瑞倉，這次有王儷玲，又加上一個吳當傑副主委，一主又一副啦！","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:56:14.874000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:56:15.715000+08:00","text":"我跟委員講，這些都不是我的老長官，我也跟同仁講過，我們金管會……","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:56:15.715000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:56:16.575000+08:00","text":"金管會的老長官不是你的老長官，是底下的人的老長官啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:56:16.575000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T09:56:24.761000+08:00","text":"第二個……","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:56:24.761000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:56:34.186000+08:00","text":"委員，這一點我必須要說明，現在我也跟同仁講：金管會只有自己是監理官，沒有老長官！","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:56:34.767000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:56:37.608000+08:00","text":"好，沒有老長官，那我就看你後續怎麼處理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:56:37.868000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:56:40.210000+08:00","text":"第二個，你看到國泰規模大所以就輕忽嘛！沒有……","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:56:41.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:56:42.207000+08:00","text":"第三個……","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:56:42.507000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:56:54.695000+08:00","text":"委員，你可以說我輕忽，但是這個部分我剛剛也跟第一個委員說明過了，我們有我們一定的步驟，這個東西要釐清，我們不是只有檢查這個工具而已。","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:56:54.936000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:57:00.740000+08:00","text":"主委，這件事情茲事體大，拖到這麼嚴重的地步，很多人看不下去。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:57:01.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:57:06.043000+08:00","text":"如果你清楚知道治理失靈的話，為什麼讓它失靈這麼久，你們金檢局才要進入？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:57:06.043000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T09:57:07.844500+08:00","text":"這就是你們輕忽嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:57:07.844500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T09:57:09.646000+08:00","text":"不是，我剛剛跟委員提到金檢……","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:57:09.646000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:57:22.173000+08:00","text":"就是說過去這一段時間以來，你重視整個金融改革、金融政策的開放，但是監理部分的把關絕對不能輕忽啦！","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:57:22.774000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:57:33.241000+08:00","text":"當然沒有輕忽，委員剛才提到檢查是一個監理動作，我們約詢他來也是個動作，我們請他提供資料，補充也是一個監理動作。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:57:34.022000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:57:39.948000+08:00","text":"檢查是說這些東西我們沒辦法、需要到現場去，因為我剛才講這是主動通報，他已經主動通報了。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:57:41.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:57:42.771000+08:00","text":"再繼續請教一下主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:57:43.312000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:57:49.659000+08:00","text":"主委，投信業在2024年的時候弄了一個自律規範，就是所謂的責任地圖。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:57:50.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:57:56.433000+08:00","text":"在責任地圖當中，這些成員要納入獨董的建議跟監察人的建議。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:57:56.573000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:58:02.299000+08:00","text":"我問一下，責任地圖的問責委員會，他們內部啟動了沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:58:03.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:58:05.622000+08:00","text":"我想我們規定這樣做，他們就要做啊。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:58:06.023000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:58:06.723000+08:00","text":"你有沒有查過了嘛？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:58:07.084000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:58:10.407000+08:00","text":"沒有，我可以請局長來跟你簡單說明一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:58:10.527000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:58:10.707000+08:00","text":"有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:58:10.908000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:58:11.048000+08:00","text":"局長來說一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"高局長晶萍","start":"2026-07-01T09:58:14.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:58:19.310000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們是有要求他們都要訂相關的責任地圖。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:58:19.310000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:58:22.593000+08:00","text":"我今天講自律機制的自律，顯然是沒有自律嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:58:23.594000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:58:23.934000+08:00","text":"你們是白訂了嘛！","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:58:24.194000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:58:26.016000+08:00","text":"白訂了嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:58:27.638000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:58:32.282000+08:00","text":"2024年責任地圖是卸責地圖還是責任地圖？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:58:32.282000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:58:35.945000+08:00","text":"弄到現在事情發生這麼大條了，問責委員會還沒有成立……","quality":1},{"speaker":"高局長晶萍","start":"2026-07-01T09:58:35.945000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T09:58:38.047000+08:00","text":"所以我們會請公司再來說明……","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:58:38.047000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:58:39.748000+08:00","text":"完全沒有自我檢討的能力嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:58:41.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:58:42.601000+08:00","text":"你還沒有要求他！","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:58:44.222000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:58:45.483000+08:00","text":"你們要求自律是要求什麼的？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:58:46.184000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:58:49.426000+08:00","text":"我們會來加強。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:58:49.426000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:58:53.249000+08:00","text":"所以我說你們對監理這件事情真的過度輕忽啦。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T09:58:53.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:58:55.731000+08:00","text":"其實我們一向都非常重視。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:58:55.731000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:58:59.954000+08:00","text":"結果郭明鑑發表了6點聲明，沒他的事情了！","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:59:03.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:59:10.097000+08:00","text":"之前銀行局用責任地圖也拖到現在還沒有出來，都失去時效了。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:59:10.457000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:59:13.578000+08:00","text":"我再拉回來跟主委講一個很嚴肅的事情。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:59:14.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:59:22.481000+08:00","text":"我覺得國泰金控現在已經不是治理失靈而已，而會引發金融國安危機。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:59:22.481000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:59:34.445000+08:00","text":"不久之前，國泰本身的信用卡核心系統升級的時候，就爆出承包商的「認知科技」是中資企業喔！","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:59:34.445000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:59:35.786000+08:00","text":"主導者是誰？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:59:35.786000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:59:36.786000+08:00","text":"郭明鑑是其中之一啊！","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:59:37.666000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:59:38.626000+08:00","text":"主導者是誰？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:59:38.626000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:59:41.887000+08:00","text":"他是接下來的接班人之一啊，不是蔡宏圖本身喔！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:59:43.908000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:59:45.788000+08:00","text":"所以這件事情茲事體大。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:59:46.949000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T09:59:55.671000+08:00","text":"這一次再看到郭明鑑，他本身是香港籍人士；二來，從世芯─KY到遠東宏信都有中資的色彩。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T09:59:58.687000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:00:04.273000+08:00","text":"遠東宏信背後的大股東，又是中國中化集團體系，被認定為有中國央企的背景。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T10:00:05.795000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:00:08.958000+08:00","text":"中國、中國、中國，全部都中國！","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T10:00:08.958000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:00:17.507000+08:00","text":"一個這麼大的金控公司，你沒有聯想到中國是不是有刻意想要透過不同的方式進駐整個金融體系嗎？","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T10:00:17.507000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:00:19.532000+08:00","text":"主委，這事情有大條嗎？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T10:00:19.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:00:20.153000+08:00","text":"你自己說嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T10:00:21.674000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:00:33.167000+08:00","text":"當然委員的顧慮有你的根據，但是從前一次國泰世華，因為它使用系統的問題，我們也請他做妥善的處理。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T10:00:33.167000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T10:00:34.167000+08:00","text":"我想這件事情……","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T10:00:33.628000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:00:34.669000+08:00","text":"一而再、再而三。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T10:00:36.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:00:39.731000+08:00","text":"我們也會來關注這件事情的狀況。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T10:00:39.731000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:00:40.931000+08:00","text":"國泰世華大到不能倒！","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T10:00:42.072000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:00:49.193000+08:00","text":"國泰世華不是單純公司治理的問題，他牽扯到整體金融國安危機的問題耶！","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T10:00:49.193000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:00:58.275000+08:00","text":"主委，我要在這邊強烈建議你，金檢單位既然已經納入，我要求類似這樣的問題要納入金檢範圍。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T10:00:58.275000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:01:00.096000+08:00","text":"主委，你回答一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T10:01:00.967000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:01:06.471000+08:00","text":"我想任何該釐清、澄清的，我們都有必要去澄清跟釐清。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T10:01:08.372000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:01:12.555000+08:00","text":"該釐清、澄清的，基本上這是一個又模糊又有原則的說法。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T10:01:12.875000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:01:17.739000+08:00","text":"但是具體的方式，你真的要以審慎的態度去面對問題。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T10:01:17.739000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:01:20.521000+08:00","text":"這個問題真的很嚴重啦！當然。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T10:01:21.161000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:01:26.986000+08:00","text":"接下來你去看，金融機構負責人兼職，真的要嚴格規範。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T10:01:26.986000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:01:33.055000+08:00","text":"本席要探討制度面的問題，一個國泰世華負責人可以3兼、4兼兼這麼多個，不會影響到公司治理嗎？","quality":0.744},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T10:01:33.055000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T10:01:34.055000+08:00","text":"對，所以在我們的辦法也規定的……","quality":0.077},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T10:01:33.195000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:01:35.516000+08:00","text":"數量是一個問題，對象也是問題，競業條款是一個問題，還有包括可能造成利關的可能性要如何杜絕，都是問題啦！","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T10:01:51.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:02:06.858000+08:00","text":"所以你要開放給金融機構負責人做兼職的話，一定要嚴格限制；第二個，金控公司底下的資訊共享也非常重要，你要如何處理避免類似的情況發生？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T10:02:07.378000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:02:15.780000+08:00","text":"當然還有，本席要嚴格要求，你剛剛說你沒有老長官，但是有一些獨董、董事去當門神的，要如何去強化他們責任？","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T10:02:16.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:02:16.340000+08:00","text":"這很重要啦！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T10:02:16.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:02:19.981000+08:00","text":"你們是不是在制度上來做一個約束跟管理？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T10:02:20.966000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:02:22.028000+08:00","text":"對，我們也正在做這件事。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-01T10:02:22.529000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:02:25.035000+08:00","text":"好，就這3點，請主委回去好好思考一下，強化監理，謝謝。","quality":0.476},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T10:02:25.657000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:02:25.657000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，謝謝。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T10:02:25.657000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:02:25.857000+08:00","text":"謝謝郭國文委員質詢。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T10:02:26.357000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T10:02:29.499857+08:00","text":"下一位請林岱樺委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":799,"blocks":[["郭委員國文：（9時51分）謝謝主席，有請彭主委。"],["主席：請金管會彭主委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員早安。"],["郭委員國文：主委好。你剛剛提到要討論制度，不要探討個案，但是事件的本身有它的嚴重性，如果沒有了解事件的話，如何在制度裡頭做修改呢？"],["彭主任委員金隆：是。"],["郭委員國文：剛剛也有委員提到，你承認治理失零，但是不承認監理擺爛，那我們就來看看國泰怎麼內控失靈啦！就本席得知的訊息，國泰在1月20號的時候就已經處分完世芯─KY的股票造成損失，是在1月20號喔！居然1月23號才給金管會一個文，稍微點到、不明就裡的說有人去兼職，但到3月的時候才告訴你說違反利關。因此這裡頭發現了幾個錯誤，國泰第一個錯誤就是上面的金控知道、銀行知道，但投信卻狀況外，這實在是非常奇怪的事情，非常荒謬啦！第二個部分，在3月17通告了金管會之後，依法他應該兩日內要公告，但是沒有公告。第三個，他沒有進行任何一個內部的究責，就只有請辭以示負責，我看是以示「卸責」啦！","所以從這幾點來看國泰違法的狀況，我想請教一下主委，第一個，關係人交易的部分違法，你剛剛說要罰300萬；第二個，依照投信投顧法第八十一條規定，影響到受益人要在兩日內公告，結果沒有公告，這要怎麼處理？主委，你這兩個要怎麼處理？"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員，就四個字「依法處理」啊！"],["郭委員國文：那什麼時候處理啊？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們把所有事實釐清以後就會依法處理。"],["郭委員國文：一併處理？"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然。"],["郭委員國文：好，第三個，我就要問一下證交所董事長，國泰投信是國泰金旗下的重要公司，結果只公布了一個請辭？"],["主席：請證交所李愛玲總經理。董事長有先跟我請假，10點30以後才會列席。"],["郭委員國文：然後就沒了？證交所有沒有要處罰？還是要一併處理？"],["李總經理愛玲：報告委員，因為這個案子相關的規定並不是在證交所這邊。"],["郭委員國文：重大訊息公布不是在你們嗎？"],["李總經理愛玲：重大訊息是。"],["郭委員國文：有沒有違反你們要查啊！"],["李總經理愛玲：重大訊息的內容，目前看起來是沒有違反，但具體的部分我們回去可以再檢視一次。"],["郭委員國文：你們查看看，這麼重大的事項沒有在重大訊息裡頭公布，這實在很誇張！主委，你剛剛提到你不承認監理擺爛，但是本席認為金管會實在過度輕忽，你說沒有監理擺爛，但是我認為這件事情搞到後來不可收拾的原因是紙包不住火啦！"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實跟委員……"],["郭委員國文：哪有1月20號已經處分完股票，後續才文來文去？你4月發一個文，6月發一個文，5月、6月事情大爆發的時候，你再金檢進駐，所以我就問，現在金檢進駐到國泰投信，有沒有可能上溯到國泰世華？有沒有可能上溯到國泰金控？如果事情是在有可能相關的人知情的情況下……你有沒有排除這個可能性？"],["彭主任委員金隆：剛剛檢查局局長已經說明了，按照我們的進程，如果有必要，我們當然都要……"],["郭委員國文：有必要的時候要上溯，對不對？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，當然是……"],["郭委員國文：這是整個集團的問題耶！"],["彭主任委員金隆：這本來就是這樣，我們檢查的實務就是這樣。"],["郭委員國文：就你所說的，如果僅是治理失靈的話，怎麼會只有國泰投信治理失靈而已呢？"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然我們不能做這個推論。"],["郭委員國文：國泰世華會排除嗎？國泰金控就要排除嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：不是，我們沒有排除，我只是說……"],["郭委員國文：不排除，對不對？必要時金檢會擴大範圍，是不是？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們現在金檢的範圍，因為主要是國泰投信發生這個事情，而現在金檢剛好進駐在國泰投信，我們當然是按照這個來做，剛剛局長也說了，我們該查的我們依法就要查。"],["郭委員國文：沒有，主委，我講實在話，苦口婆心跟你說，外界說你會過度輕忽的原因跟台中銀行有點類似，因為有老長官在那邊當門神，之前台中銀行有李瑞倉，這次有王儷玲，又加上一個吳當傑副主委，一主又一副啦！"],["彭主任委員金隆：我跟委員講，這些都不是我的老長官，我也跟同仁講過，我們金管會……"],["郭委員國文：金管會的老長官不是你的老長官，是底下的人的老長官啦！第二個……"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員，這一點我必須要說明，現在我也跟同仁講：金管會只有自己是監理官，沒有老長官！"],["郭委員國文：好，沒有老長官，那我就看你後續怎麼處理。第二個，你看到國泰規模大所以就輕忽嘛！"],["彭主任委員金隆：沒有……"],["郭委員國文：第三個……"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員，你可以說我輕忽，但是這個部分我剛剛也跟第一個委員說明過了，我們有我們一定的步驟，這個東西要釐清，我們不是只有檢查這個工具而已。"],["郭委員國文：主委，這件事情茲事體大，拖到這麼嚴重的地步，很多人看不下去。如果你清楚知道治理失靈的話，為什麼讓它失靈這麼久，你們金檢局才要進入？這就是你們輕忽嘛！"],["彭主任委員金隆：不是，我剛剛跟委員提到金檢……"],["郭委員國文：就是說過去這一段時間以來，你重視整個金融改革、金融政策的開放，但是監理部分的把關絕對不能輕忽啦！"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然沒有輕忽，委員剛才提到檢查是一個監理動作，我們約詢他來也是個動作，我們請他提供資料，補充也是一個監理動作。檢查是說這些東西我們沒辦法、需要到現場去，因為我剛才講這是主動通報，他已經主動通報了。"],["郭委員國文：再繼續請教一下主委。主委，投信業在2024年的時候弄了一個自律規範，就是所謂的責任地圖。在責任地圖當中，這些成員要納入獨董的建議跟監察人的建議。我問一下，責任地圖的問責委員會，他們內部啟動了沒有？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我想我們規定這樣做，他們就要做啊。"],["郭委員國文：你有沒有查過了嘛？"],["彭主任委員金隆：沒有，我可以請局長來跟你簡單說明一下。"],["郭委員國文：有沒有？局長來說一下。"],["高局長晶萍：報告委員，我們是有要求他們都要訂相關的責任地圖。"],["郭委員國文：我今天講自律機制的自律，顯然是沒有自律嘛！你們是白訂了嘛！白訂了嘛！2024年責任地圖是卸責地圖還是責任地圖？弄到現在事情發生這麼大條了，問責委員會還沒有成立……"],["高局長晶萍：所以我們會請公司再來說明……"],["郭委員國文：完全沒有自我檢討的能力嘛！你還沒有要求他！你們要求自律是要求什麼的？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們會來加強。"],["郭委員國文：所以我說你們對監理這件事情真的過度輕忽啦。"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實我們一向都非常重視。"],["郭委員國文：結果郭明鑑發表了6點聲明，沒他的事情了！之前銀行局用責任地圖也拖到現在還沒有出來，都失去時效了。","我再拉回來跟主委講一個很嚴肅的事情。我覺得國泰金控現在已經不是治理失靈而已，而會引發金融國安危機。不久之前，國泰本身的信用卡核心系統升級的時候，就爆出承包商的「認知科技」是中資企業喔！主導者是誰？郭明鑑是其中之一啊！主導者是誰？他是接下來的接班人之一啊，不是蔡宏圖本身喔！所以這件事情茲事體大。這一次再看到郭明鑑，他本身是香港籍人士；二來，從世芯─KY到遠東宏信都有中資的色彩。遠東宏信背後的大股東，又是中國中化集團體系，被認定為有中國央企的背景。中國、中國、中國，全部都中國！一個這麼大的金控公司，你沒有聯想到中國是不是有刻意想要透過不同的方式進駐整個金融體系嗎？主委，這事情有大條嗎？你自己說嘛！"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然委員的顧慮有你的根據，但是從前一次國泰世華，因為它使用系統的問題，我們也請他做妥善的處理。我想這件事情……"],["郭委員國文：一而再、再而三。"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們也會來關注這件事情的狀況。"],["郭委員國文：國泰世華大到不能倒！國泰世華不是單純公司治理的問題，他牽扯到整體金融國安危機的問題耶！主委，我要在這邊強烈建議你，金檢單位既然已經納入，我要求類似這樣的問題要納入金檢範圍。主委，你回答一下。"],["彭主任委員金隆：我想任何該釐清、澄清的，我們都有必要去澄清跟釐清。"],["郭委員國文：該釐清、澄清的，基本上這是一個又模糊又有原則的說法。但是具體的方式，你真的要以審慎的態度去面對問題。這個問題真的很嚴重啦！"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然。"],["郭委員國文：接下來你去看，金融機構負責人兼職，真的要嚴格規範。本席要探討制度面的問題，一個國泰世華負責人可以3兼、4兼兼這麼多個，不會影響到公司治理嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，所以在我們的辦法也規定的……"],["郭委員國文：數量是一個問題，對象也是問題，競業條款是一個問題，還有包括可能造成利關的可能性要如何杜絕，都是問題啦！所以你要開放給金融機構負責人做兼職的話，一定要嚴格限制；第二個，金控公司底下的資訊共享也非常重要，你要如何處理避免類似的情況發生？當然還有，本席要嚴格要求，你剛剛說你沒有老長官，但是有一些獨董、董事去當門神的，要如何去強化他們責任？這很重要啦！你們是不是在制度上來做一個約束跟管理？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，我們也正在做這件事。"],["郭委員國文：好，就這3點，請主委回去好好思考一下，強化監理，謝謝。"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝委員，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝郭國文委員質詢。","下一位請林岱樺委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":556,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-20-20","speakers":["吳秉叡","林德福","賴士葆","郭國文","林岱樺","劉書彬","賴惠員","李彥秀","顏寬恒","羅明才","陳玉珍","王世堅","李坤城","林楚茵","許忠信","楊瓊瓔","林思銘"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2026-07-01"],"gazette_id":"1155602","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155602_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、彙總整理提出「中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案審查總報告（公務預算部分）草案」提\n報院會案；二、彙總整理提出「中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業及非營業\n部分審查總報告草案」提報院會案；三、審查本院委員吳秉叡等20人擬具「會計師法部分條文修\n正草案」案；四、審查本院委員吳秉叡等21人、委員李彥秀等18人分別擬具「證券交易稅條例第\n二條之一條文修正草案」等2案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1155602_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}