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794},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:17:57.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:18:06.092000+08:00","text":"在行政院的總質詢裡面，也跟院長、部長提過4次，部長能告訴我到現在為止的進度是多少？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"陳參謀長建義","start":"2026-07-01T10:18:06.092000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T10:18:11.194000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我簡單的……不要！","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:18:11.194000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:18:17.816000+08:00","text":"我要部長回答，我不要你回答，你昨天回答過我了，沒那麼簡單！","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:18:17.816000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:18:18.477000+08:00","text":"部長，你回答我。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳參謀長建義","start":"2026-07-01T10:18:18.477000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T10:18:19.677000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我還是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:18:19.677000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:18:21.678000+08:00","text":"我不要你回答，下去！","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T10:18:24.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:18:32.921000+08:00","text":"我的了解是，我們現在是就現有的靶場來做隔音牆的工作。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:18:34.682000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:18:34.962000+08:00","text":"靶場進度是零！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:18:35.622000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:18:40.444000+08:00","text":"零蛋的「零」，有這樣的事嗎？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:18:40.444000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:18:56.556000+08:00","text":"109年到現在115年，國防部陸軍總部，部長，我跟你們的關係這麼好，我沒刪過你們一毛錢耶！","quality":0.794},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T10:18:56.556000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:18:59.219000+08:00","text":"靶場應該去年就決標了。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:18:59.219000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:19:00.160000+08:00","text":"決什麼標？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:19:00.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:19:03.824000+08:00","text":"部長，回去請您多關心一下好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:19:04.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:19:16.463000+08:00","text":"我的總質詢、4次總質詢，院長也好，部長也好，請你們的腦袋裡面裝點東西好好想一想好不好？","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T10:19:17.644000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:19:21.466000+08:00","text":"委員提的是隔音牆還是遷移的部分？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:19:22.006000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:19:38.475000+08:00","text":"北竿靶場在我們的蛋黃區，你看看，在蛋黃區，我們村莊在那裡、在正中央，我提過幾次了，這個靶場在這裡，你看在中正紀念堂打靶會怎麼樣？","quality":0.696},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:19:38.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:19:39.976000+08:00","text":"在臺北市中心打靶會怎麼樣？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:19:41.592000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:19:52.477000+08:00","text":"旁邊有衛福大樓，有運動場，有中山國中，也有住宅在那裡，你非要打死人才高興嗎？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:19:52.477000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:20:00.761000+08:00","text":"我提了很多次了，昨天最後一次請陸總參謀長來開會，沒結果，做不了主！","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:20:02.081000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:20:17.503000+08:00","text":"我自己找部長來，我不要參謀長回答，下一次開始每一次國防委員會我都要出席，這一次是這樣，下一次拿看板，再下去找民眾來抗爭，沒有這樣的道理吧！","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:20:18.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:20:20.384000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:20:20.384000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:20:22.745000+08:00","text":"有這樣的道理嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:20:22.745000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:20:24.485000+08:00","text":"陸總部你們在幹什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:20:24.485000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:20:26.925000+08:00","text":"國防部你們在幹什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:20:26.925000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:20:29.166000+08:00","text":"還有相關業管單位，是沒有錢嗎？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:20:31.026000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:20:32.327000+08:00","text":"說編了多少？7億啊！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:20:34.567000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:20:43.589000+08:00","text":"200名阿兵哥打靶的靶場要7億，有這樣的笑話！","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T10:20:43.589000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:20:46.290000+08:00","text":"委員講的是指我們要遷移的部分嗎？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:20:46.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:20:53.572000+08:00","text":"對，要遷移的，要遷到風山，風山的土地是國產署的地，地都找好了。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T10:20:54.593000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:20:58.294000+08:00","text":"遷移的部分，據我的瞭解，現在好像是在做地質鑽探的工程。","quality":0.708},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:20:58.554000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:20:59.495000+08:00","text":"鑽探什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:20:59.495000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:21:03.136000+08:00","text":"你要有案子才能鑽探，你沒有案子，你鑽探什麼啊？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:21:04.206000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:21:07.967000+08:00","text":"假設立法院在哪裡要蓋個房子，起碼要有個案子，有個案子才能鑽探嘛！","quality":0.759},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:21:09.808000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:21:12.649000+08:00","text":"你不能莫名其妙跑到我家來鑽探，要鑽探什麼？","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:21:12.649000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T10:21:13.649000+08:00","text":"連個案子都沒有！","quality":0},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T10:21:12.649000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:21:13.909000+08:00","text":"要有一個地質評估的報告。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:21:13.909000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T10:21:19.131000+08:00","text":"那當然啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:21:19.131000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:21:27.954000+08:00","text":"報告部長，我公務員幹了四十幾年，縣長也幹了8年，立法院待了16年，我怎麼會不清楚行政程序呢？","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:21:28.895000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:21:30.035000+08:00","text":"我怎麼會不懂採購法？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:21:31.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:21:32.776000+08:00","text":"你不要誆我、不要糊弄我啊！","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:21:32.776000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T10:21:35.861000+08:00","text":"老百姓就一個小事情嘛……","quality":0},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T10:21:35.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:21:47.246000+08:00","text":"地質鑽探工程應該是之前就決標了，地質鑽探已經在去年10月8日決標。","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:21:47.246000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:21:50.807000+08:00","text":"我不管你，你地質鑽探幾年了，5年、8年了嗎？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:21:50.807000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:21:51.187000+08:00","text":"你要多久？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:21:52.468000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:21:55.589000+08:00","text":"部長，你先回答我，這個靶場大概什麼時候可以完成？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:21:55.589000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T10:22:01.058000+08:00","text":"已經有地址了，風山的靶場已經有地址給你了。","quality":0.053},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T10:22:01.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:22:02.919000+08:00","text":"他們完成了鑽探之後，應該是還要……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:22:03.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:22:10.082000+08:00","text":"我當部長的話，兩年之內可以完成，你當部長多久能夠完成？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:22:10.442000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:22:13.764000+08:00","text":"我想你的效率比我好，一年可以完成吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T10:22:15.244000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:22:20.907000+08:00","text":"我想應該要再來做一個專家的環境評估吧，這個後續再做。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:22:21.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:22:22.748000+08:00","text":"沒關係，部長，你什麼時候能夠回答我？","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:22:24.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:22:30.102000+08:00","text":"我沒有急著要你3年、5年，但起碼1年、2年，你起碼回去了解回答我一下吧！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:22:31.242000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:22:32.163000+08:00","text":"你今天能不能回答我？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:22:33.284000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:22:39.529000+08:00","text":"能不能具體的告訴我這個靶場遷移的時限，可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T10:22:39.529000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:22:40.009000+08:00","text":"你說遷移完成啊？對！","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T10:22:45.092000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:22:48.613000+08:00","text":"我可能還要再看他們後續的環境評估結果。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:22:48.693000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:22:53.935000+08:00","text":"我沒有意見，但請你起碼重視這個案子，你親自主持這樣的會議，什麼時候把它完成，能不能告訴我？","quality":0.775},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T10:22:54.895000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:22:55.936000+08:00","text":"好，我再來追蹤。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:22:55.936000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:22:58.536000+08:00","text":"你趕快找你的幕僚。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T10:22:58.536000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:23:00.097000+08:00","text":"我再來追蹤相關的進度。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:23:00.397000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:23:16.562000+08:00","text":"部長，不要花1億，5,000萬就夠了，這個案子5,000萬就夠了，在別的地方弄一個靶場，弄一個靶溝，100公尺、200公尺，你說，200名阿兵哥是要多大的靶場嘛？","quality":0.811},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:23:18.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:23:28.673000+08:00","text":"我上次在總質詢時你也回答過我，你說這個靶場在蛋黃區，院長也回答了，卓院長說在蛋黃區確實不太合理，要搬嘛！","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:23:29.013000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:23:30.855000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:23:30.855000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:23:37.201000+08:00","text":"結果一直在糊弄我、一直在糊弄我，部長，你回答我我就下臺，好不好？","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:23:38.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:23:40.299000+08:00","text":"你回答我，我馬上就下去，不質詢了。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T10:23:42.140000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:23:45.540000+08:00","text":"有關隔音牆的部分，我們會安裝……","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:23:45.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:23:47.801000+08:00","text":"沒有，我現在不是講隔音牆，隔音牆你們去做，我講的是後半段。","quality":0.48},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T10:23:49.461000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:23:55.982000+08:00","text":"遷移的部分完成地質評估報告以後，再來做環境評估，我會來盯緊這個進度，隨時再跟委員報告。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:23:56.163000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:23:59.123000+08:00","text":"那裡沒有環境評估的問題，也沒有了啦！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:24:00.063000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:24:01.884000+08:00","text":"風山那裡是一個山溝。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T10:24:01.884000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T10:24:04.924000+08:00","text":"有水土保持的問題。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:24:04.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:24:05.944000+08:00","text":"都不是問題！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:24:05.944000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:24:11.245000+08:00","text":"部長，你回答我，你回去主持這個會議好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T10:24:11.925000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:24:17.446000+08:00","text":"好，我回去會跟陸軍來開會討論。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:24:17.446000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:24:26.409000+08:00","text":"我希望下一次我再來外交及國防委員會質詢部長的時候，你能夠給我一個明確的答復，可以嗎？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:24:26.409000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:24:29.190000+08:00","text":"我一個月以後再回到這個地方來問你。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T10:24:29.190000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:24:32.171000+08:00","text":"是，我回去跟陸軍會做討論，來檢視……","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:24:32.171000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:24:40.352000+08:00","text":"我希望國防部同仁不要讓部長為難，如果實在沒辦法，我就找院長了，院長沒辦法，我就到總統府去了。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:24:42.032000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:24:42.573000+08:00","text":"不要這樣嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:24:44.013000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:24:46.233000+08:00","text":"我剛才講了，我有刪你們預算嗎？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:24:46.233000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:24:48.954000+08:00","text":"我沒刪過一毛錢耶！","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:24:49.114000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:24:53.415000+08:00","text":"馬文君召委在這邊，我還幫你們講話，我還拜託他不要刪國防部的預算，你問他！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-07-01T10:24:53.715000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:24:53.976000+08:00","text":"亂編就要刪！","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:24:54.096000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:24:54.556000+08:00","text":"人家還說我什麼藍皮綠骨的，誰藍皮綠骨啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:24:54.576000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:24:54.616000+08:00","text":"是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:25:05.227000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:25:12.854000+08:00","text":"王義川委員也在這邊，他說我叫老共幹什麼、幹什麼的。","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:25:12.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:25:13.415000+08:00","text":"王義川，你說！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:25:13.415000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:25:15.056000+08:00","text":"你在電視上有沒有講我？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-01T10:25:15.056000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T10:25:17.939000+08:00","text":"我叫你跟老共說不要打啦！有啊！","quality":0.154},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:25:17.939000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:25:21.482000+08:00","text":"我有幫你講話，我下次碰到習近平，我就跟他講啊！","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:25:23.464000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:25:24.645000+08:00","text":"但我見不到他了，對不起！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:25:27.187000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:25:27.367000+08:00","text":"部長，好不好？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T10:25:27.367000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T10:25:29.730000+08:00","text":"好，我下去跟……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:25:29.730000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:25:39.014000+08:00","text":"我早上講話的語氣是不好，但是真的，這個事情已經把我搞火了，我真的很生氣，好不好？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T10:25:39.014000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T10:25:40.014000+08:00","text":"好，了解。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:25:39.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:25:42.955000+08:00","text":"請您重視我的存在，可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T10:25:42.955000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:25:46.156000+08:00","text":"我下去會跟陸軍做一個……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:25:46.156000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:25:46.936000+08:00","text":"我不跟陸軍講了，我要跟你講話。是、是。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:25:47.116000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:25:47.817000+08:00","text":"我再跟陸軍講話就……已經11次了！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T10:25:47.817000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T10:25:48.957000+08:00","text":"是，但我會……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:25:48.957000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:25:49.097000+08:00","text":"來，這資料給你。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:26:01.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:26:04.943000+08:00","text":"我不會跟你打架，你放心啦！","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"陳委員雪生","start":"2026-07-01T10:26:05.644000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:26:06.544000+08:00","text":"我沒那麼粗魯。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T10:26:07.044000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T10:26:09.044000+08:00","text":"謝謝陳雪生委員。","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T10:26:09.344000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T10:26:11.915429+08:00","text":"接下來請沈伯洋委員。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":402,"blocks":[["陳委員雪生：（10時16分）謝謝主席，請國防部顧部長。"],["主席：請顧部長。"],["顧部長立雄：陳委員好。"],["陳委員雪生：部長早。本席從19歲開始，跟國防部的關係，你不知道吧？我就在馬祖了，所以我跟國防部也好，跟軍人也好，我們跟一個大家庭一樣，我沒有什麼事，我有砍過國防部預算嗎？一毛錢都沒砍過，有責難過你們嗎？也沒有。跟馬防部關係更是好得不得了，我也告訴我們的縣長、議長、議員、所有的鄉親，我們關係那麼好。我現在要說一個靶場，我請問部長，這個靶場我從109年開始提案的，希望北竿的靶場要遷移，112年3月、113年2月還有6月，4次總質詢時都有提北竿靶場，大大小小會議，11次了！在行政院的總質詢裡面，也跟院長、部長提過4次，部長能告訴我到現在為止的進度是多少？"],["陳參謀長建義：報告委員，我簡單的……"],["陳委員雪生：不要！我要部長回答，我不要你回答，你昨天回答過我了，沒那麼簡單！部長，你回答我。"],["陳參謀長建義：報告委員，我還是……"],["陳委員雪生：我不要你回答，下去！"],["顧部長立雄：我的了解是，我們現在是就現有的靶場來做隔音牆的工作。"],["陳委員雪生：靶場進度是零！零蛋的「零」，有這樣的事嗎？109年到現在115年，國防部陸軍總部，部長，我跟你們的關係這麼好，我沒刪過你們一毛錢耶！"],["顧部長立雄：靶場應該去年就決標了。"],["陳委員雪生：決什麼標？部長，回去請您多關心一下好不好？我的總質詢、4次總質詢，院長也好，部長也好，請你們的腦袋裡面裝點東西好好想一想好不好？"],["顧部長立雄：委員提的是隔音牆還是遷移的部分？"],["陳委員雪生：北竿靶場在我們的蛋黃區，你看看，在蛋黃區，我們村莊在那裡、在正中央，我提過幾次了，這個靶場在這裡，你看在中正紀念堂打靶會怎麼樣？在臺北市中心打靶會怎麼樣？旁邊有衛福大樓，有運動場，有中山國中，也有住宅在那裡，你非要打死人才高興嗎？我提了很多次了，昨天最後一次請陸總參謀長來開會，沒結果，做不了主！我自己找部長來，我不要參謀長回答，下一次開始每一次國防委員會我都要出席，這一次是這樣，下一次拿看板，再下去找民眾來抗爭，沒有這樣的道理吧！對不對？有這樣的道理嗎？陸總部你們在幹什麼？國防部你們在幹什麼？還有相關業管單位，是沒有錢嗎？說編了多少？7億啊！200名阿兵哥打靶的靶場要7億，有這樣的笑話！"],["顧部長立雄：委員講的是指我們要遷移的部分嗎？"],["陳委員雪生：對，要遷移的，要遷到風山，風山的土地是國產署的地，地都找好了。"],["顧部長立雄：遷移的部分，據我的瞭解，現在好像是在做地質鑽探的工程。"],["陳委員雪生：鑽探什麼？你要有案子才能鑽探，你沒有案子，你鑽探什麼啊？假設立法院在哪裡要蓋個房子，起碼要有個案子，有個案子才能鑽探嘛！你不能莫名其妙跑到我家來鑽探，要鑽探什麼？連個案子都沒有！"],["顧部長立雄：要有一個地質評估的報告。"],["陳委員雪生：那當然啊！報告部長，我公務員幹了四十幾年，縣長也幹了8年，立法院待了16年，我怎麼會不清楚行政程序呢？我怎麼會不懂採購法？你不要誆我、不要糊弄我啊！老百姓就一個小事情嘛……"],["顧部長立雄：地質鑽探工程應該是之前就決標了，地質鑽探已經在去年10月8日決標。"],["陳委員雪生：我不管你，你地質鑽探幾年了，5年、8年了嗎？你要多久？部長，你先回答我，這個靶場大概什麼時候可以完成？已經有地址了，風山的靶場已經有地址給你了。"],["顧部長立雄：他們完成了鑽探之後，應該是還要……"],["陳委員雪生：我當部長的話，兩年之內可以完成，你當部長多久能夠完成？我想你的效率比我好，一年可以完成吧？"],["顧部長立雄：我想應該要再來做一個專家的環境評估吧，這個後續再做。"],["陳委員雪生：沒關係，部長，你什麼時候能夠回答我？我沒有急著要你3年、5年，但起碼1年、2年，你起碼回去了解回答我一下吧！你今天能不能回答我？能不能具體的告訴我這個靶場遷移的時限，可以嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：你說遷移完成啊？"],["陳委員雪生：對！"],["顧部長立雄：我可能還要再看他們後續的環境評估結果。"],["陳委員雪生：我沒有意見，但請你起碼重視這個案子，你親自主持這樣的會議，什麼時候把它完成，能不能告訴我？"],["顧部長立雄：好，我再來追蹤。"],["陳委員雪生：你趕快找你的幕僚。"],["顧部長立雄：我再來追蹤相關的進度。"],["陳委員雪生：部長，不要花1億，5,000萬就夠了，這個案子5,000萬就夠了，在別的地方弄一個靶場，弄一個靶溝，100公尺、200公尺，你說，200名阿兵哥是要多大的靶場嘛？我上次在總質詢時你也回答過我，你說這個靶場在蛋黃區，院長也回答了，卓院長說在蛋黃區確實不太合理，要搬嘛！對不對？結果一直在糊弄我、一直在糊弄我，部長，你回答我我就下臺，好不好？你回答我，我馬上就下去，不質詢了。"],["顧部長立雄：有關隔音牆的部分，我們會安裝……"],["陳委員雪生：沒有，我現在不是講隔音牆，隔音牆你們去做，我講的是後半段。"],["顧部長立雄：遷移的部分完成地質評估報告以後，再來做環境評估，我會來盯緊這個進度，隨時再跟委員報告。"],["陳委員雪生：那裡沒有環境評估的問題，也沒有了啦！風山那裡是一個山溝。"],["顧部長立雄：有水土保持的問題。"],["陳委員雪生：都不是問題！部長，你回答我，你回去主持這個會議好不好？"],["顧部長立雄：好，我回去會跟陸軍來開會討論。"],["陳委員雪生：我希望下一次我再來外交及國防委員會質詢部長的時候，你能夠給我一個明確的答復，可以嗎？我一個月以後再回到這個地方來問你。"],["顧部長立雄：是，我回去跟陸軍會做討論，來檢視……"],["陳委員雪生：我希望國防部同仁不要讓部長為難，如果實在沒辦法，我就找院長了，院長沒辦法，我就到總統府去了。不要這樣嘛！我剛才講了，我有刪你們預算嗎？我沒刪過一毛錢耶！馬文君召委在這邊，我還幫你們講話，我還拜託他不要刪國防部的預算，你問他！"],["馬委員文君：亂編就要刪！"],["陳委員雪生：人家還說我什麼藍皮綠骨的，誰藍皮綠骨啊！是不是？王義川委員也在這邊，他說我叫老共幹什麼、幹什麼的。王義川，你說！你在電視上有沒有講我？"],["王委員義川：我叫你跟老共說不要打啦！"],["陳委員雪生：有啊！我有幫你講話，我下次碰到習近平，我就跟他講啊！但我見不到他了，對不起！部長，好不好？"],["顧部長立雄：好，我下去跟……"],["陳委員雪生：我早上講話的語氣是不好，但是真的，這個事情已經把我搞火了，我真的很生氣，好不好？"],["顧部長立雄：好，了解。"],["陳委員雪生：請您重視我的存在，可以嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：我下去會跟陸軍做一個……"],["陳委員雪生：我不跟陸軍講了，我要跟你講話。"],["顧部長立雄：是、是。"],["陳委員雪生：我再跟陸軍講話就……已經11次了！"],["顧部長立雄：是，但我會……"],["陳委員雪生：來，這資料給你。我不會跟你打架，你放心啦！我沒那麼粗魯。"],["主席：謝謝陳雪生委員。","接下來請沈伯洋委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":386,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-35-24","speakers":["陳冠廷","陳俊宇","羅美玲","陳永康","王定宇","林楚茵","陳雪生","馬文君","王義川","沈伯洋","牛煦庭","王安祥","許忠信","鍾佳濱","黃建賓","賴士葆","翁曉玲","郭昱晴","黃仁","邱志偉"],"page_start":313,"meetingDate":["2026-07-01"],"gazette_id":"1155601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155601_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第24次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部、外交部、海洋委員會海巡署、大陸委員會報告「中國船舶常態化巡弋我國海域之因\n應作為」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1155601_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}