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1月23號國泰投信已經跟金管會就是通報重大的偶發事件那這一個規定就是七天內你必須要函報詳細的資料跟改善的措施那這個到底有沒有七天內你們去處理這些事情顯然是沒有嘛"},{"start":287.459,"end":306.287,"text":"就是他的資料過來我們覺得還有很大需要釐清的地方所以我剛才跟委員報告過我們有多次的不管是透過新聞約詢或是用我們的其他的方式通知他五件說明我想這個都是我們正常的監禁程序只是外界都以為說我們都完全沒有作為"},{"start":307.367,"end":328.115,"text":"那主委我請教你啦 如果像現在他第二次在發生事件的時候這個6月18他一樣就是說在這個有一個重大事件的一個那個發生了好 那你現在你的這個調查局就是第一次的時候調查局有沒有入住在國泰投信"},{"start":328.715,"end":345.025,"text":"我們剛檢察局局長已經說明過了他都已經現在進駐在國泰同性進行實地檢查我在講了2026年1月23日的時候這一次啊就第一次第一次發生的時候就我剛才跟委員說明過檢查並不是說一有通報我們就派人檢查"},{"start":346.845,"end":368.18,"text":"因為我們需要檢查就是因為我們沒辦法掌握資訊的時候他已經主動的去通知這件事情我們當然可以跟他要很多很多的資料請他人來說明那直到我們覺得有必要的時候我們就派人實地去檢查這個並不必然說一有通報就要派人去檢查我想大家可能不是很理解我們監理上面的實務"},{"start":369.241,"end":398.26,"text":"所以這是一個誤解所以你想想看嘛這個國泰投信他又列帳賠了4億多可見這個事情是非常非常的嚴重那如果像主委你這樣子講的話因為你怕觸犯了這種金融上的一個秩序所以你也怕造成投資人的一個恐慌那你用這麼溫暖的一個方式其實不是溫暖我想委員這是一個正常程序我想就像我們一定會這樣"},{"start":399.561,"end":425.154,"text":"一定要釐清事實我們才能夠做相關處理我們不能夠聽到一件事情就是說確定這個就是真的我們必須要真的完全的了解真實的情況我們才能做處理我想那這個郭榮健就沒有記起你的這個經驗了你看他5月27號今年的5月27號再度再出任那個榮辰的董事啊那可見他沒有把金管會放在眼裡嘛"},{"start":426.335,"end":441.432,"text":"你講的話他認為不夠嚴重如果是這樣的話那我們就必須他們就是在整個內控機制他們本來就有一套他該要申報而且他們要查核的機制就剛才講他們自己的事可是這社會大眾看起來他是累患"},{"start":442.711,"end":457.994,"text":"他是壘患欸他為什麼一直不斷的你們講他這麼厲害結果結果他是一直不斷的就是在走他自己的路我還是要想這整個事件圖利到誰誰獲利最多"},{"start":458.655,"end":484.052,"text":"我看不懂那好那我們就來回回來講制度面如果就是說我們你們儘管會要所有的銀行所有的金控就是內部的一個控制的那個制度的聲明書我們有沒有辦法從這一個聲明書裡頭大家董事長還有總經理還有總集合這些列列上名字的人簽字的人我們從這個地方來處理來處罰有沒有機會"},{"start":488.895,"end":511.062,"text":"當然我要講說他們的內控制度都已經定在那邊為什麼沒有落實導致違反規定這是我們要確認釐清 該罰就要罰 我們會依法來辦理主委 他就是簽給你的嘛 你要不要罰他我剛跟委員說明啦 就是假設規定他違反了規定確定以後當然是該罰就要罰"},{"start":512.601,"end":538.726,"text":"我在講就是說甚至就是你這一個虛偽的隱匿還是制度的一個失衡這個我們其實你是要很嚴肅的去看待這件事情那我還是在講我還重新再聲明一下這個聲明書裡頭牽制的人你要不要去從這個方向然後去要求他們"},{"start":540.751,"end":553.759,"text":"去要求他們這當然是我們要看他整整套制度為什麼會施令很重要的關鍵是所以你看喔這不是只有金控喔那你在台灣銀行其實他也一樣就是"},{"start":555.743,"end":577.328,"text":"內控的一個缺失不管是你的一個金控還是你的那個國立銀行也是一樣那這樣子的話監察院他糾正了這些缺失的時候那顯然那個力道是不夠的所以你的糾正文案所擠出的內容財政部有什麼相應的改善措施嗎"},{"start":578.268,"end":587.783,"text":"我們在對他的處罰函裡面就有要求他要按照怎麼做我們後續都有一個一個去去檢核他是不是按照我們的要求來處理"},{"start":589.513,"end":616.514,"text":"監察院講啊你說是相關的人員後來還多名涉案為師的人員那年度的考積都是列為甲等啊所以這個黃武環二度的一個破口我們大家怎麼來看他這個糾正案文他寫得非常的清楚啊所以主委我想你可能要再多花一些精神因為顯然內積人員控是失衡的非常的厲害"},{"start":617.096,"end":632.667,"text":"我想金融機構內控做得不好我們該檢討責無旁貸但是就是說我們會來努力來做那至於說各個金融機構他們站在第一線我們真的要好好落實他們的內控內基我想這是他們該做"},{"start":633.627,"end":657.782,"text":"我們不希望這兩個事件是巧合因為這個還延續到上一屆的那個主委的一個領導風格到你現在你現在的一個整體的一個領導當然我不會去講說因為你的下面有誰去當門那個誰在當門審所以影響到你的整個判讀不過還是跟主委那個就是跟你做一個提醒我還是強調一下沒有門審這件事情謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:23:52.069000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:23:52.409000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，請金管會主委。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T10:23:52.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:23:52.830000+08:00","text":"請金管會彭主委。","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T10:23:52.830000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T10:23:53.830000+08:00","text":"委員，早安。","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:23:52.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:23:53.150000+08:00","text":"主委，早安。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:24:11.965000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:24:46.672000+08:00","text":"郭國文委員打上半場，我打下半場，這是國泰投資事件大事紀，我覺得很奇怪，關於國泰金控、國泰投信的爭議，我一直覺得是內控機制疏失引發出這一連串的事務，難道金管會都沒有發現這些疏失嗎？","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:24:47.593000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:24:55.620000+08:00","text":"依現行法規規定，銀行董事長到底可不可以兼任其他公司董事，有沒有這樣的規定？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T10:24:56.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:25:23.850000+08:00","text":"我先從後面的問題回答委員，第一個，我們在金融機構負責人的兼職其實有明確規範，金融機構和金融機構之間的兼職原則是採禁止，例外是同意，基本上，你在一個金融機構擔任負責人，就不太可能在其他金融機構擔任負責人，除非有投資關係，比如金控公司或是你對它有投資關係，這是非常嚴格的。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T10:25:24.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:25:55.672000+08:00","text":"但是金控公司的負責人對非金融業的兼職，現在的規定是不可以兼董事長、總經理或職務相當的職務，至於其他的董事部分，我們是回到由他們自己去評估，你讓你的負責人兼職必須要確保沒有利益衝突，而且要定期檢視，現行規定是這樣。","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:25:55.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:26:00.501000+08:00","text":"主委，郭明鑑有沒有提出申報他要兼這些公司的獨董？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T10:26:02.397000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:26:11.641000+08:00","text":"如果這件事情有即時申報的話，假設這個情況有即時申報，公司就會註記，公司有註記的話就不會產生這個結果。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:26:12.641000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:26:14.402000+08:00","text":"所以就是公司沒有註記嗎？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T10:26:14.402000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:26:26.507000+08:00","text":"我們先不要針對個案，假設這個負責人自己有真的做好申報，公司沒有去執行，那是一個問題，如果他沒有去申報，公司當然不會去執行，公司是不是……","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:26:26.867000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:26:36.347000+08:00","text":"郭明鑑到底有沒有提出申請，國泰投信有沒有跟金管會申報，我要知道結果是怎麼樣？","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T10:26:38.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:26:47.709000+08:00","text":"我們現在看到的是，如果國泰投信有接到他的申報的話，應該就會做防堵。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:26:49.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:26:59.080000+08:00","text":"現在查到這個時候，以你來看這整個案子，從去年6月到今年5月，到底有沒有申報？","quality":0.719},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T10:27:00.291000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:27:06.678000+08:00","text":"我想在國泰投信的部分，應該是程序沒有完備，所以才會導致他的結果。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:27:08.199000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:27:20.372000+08:00","text":"他們說郭明鑑是「併購金童」，投資界給他這樣子的名稱，那要給林修銘什麼樣的金童？","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:27:21.152000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:27:23.694000+08:00","text":"他也很厲害啊，對不對？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:27:24.115000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:27:29.617000+08:00","text":"如果這麼厲害的人都不守法的話，這個踩線的機制，你要怎麼拆解它呢？","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:27:29.777000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:27:35.459000+08:00","text":"他的身分重疊，觸犯法規的限制，我們可以不管他嗎？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:27:35.459000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:27:44.283000+08:00","text":"顯然現在在管理的部分，大家都究責金管會在管理上面好像是慢了很多拍。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:27:45.343000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:27:45.623000+08:00","text":"你怎麼解釋呢？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T10:27:45.703000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:27:45.903000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員給我機會。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T10:27:45.903000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:27:55.271000+08:00","text":"我剛剛講過，大家都以為這件事情一發生，主管機關就會直接做一個判定。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T10:27:55.412000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:28:14.530000+08:00","text":"我想很多事情，我們必須充分去理解，因為我們是主管機關，我們做任何的決定跟裁罰，一定要充分地掌握所有的資訊跟確切的證據以後，確定是不是已經有違規事實，且沒有其他的問題，以及我們要進行相關的行政程序……","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:28:14.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:28:17.851000+08:00","text":"我覺得這樣講，是不是可以再修正一下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:28:18.912000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:28:31.876000+08:00","text":"2026年1月23號，國泰投信已經跟金管會通報重大偶發事件，並依規定應於7天內函報詳細資料跟改善措施。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:28:33.457000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:28:36.357000+08:00","text":"你們到底有沒有在7天之後去處理這些事情？","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:28:36.918000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:28:37.738000+08:00","text":"顯然是沒有嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T10:28:39.799000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:28:43.080000+08:00","text":"沒有，他的資料過來，我們覺得還有很大需要釐清的地方。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T10:28:43.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:28:58.287000+08:00","text":"所以我剛才跟委員報告過，我們有多次不管是透過行文、約詢，或是用其他的方式通知他補件說明，這些都是我們正常的監理程序，只是外界以為我們都完全沒有作為。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:28:59.707000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:29:11.872000+08:00","text":"主委，我請教你，如果像現在他第二次再發生事件，6月18號一樣有一個重大事件發生。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:29:17.174000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:29:20.095000+08:00","text":"第一次的時候，檢查局有沒有進駐在國泰投信？","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T10:29:21.255000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:29:25.918000+08:00","text":"剛才檢查局局長已經說明過了，現在進駐在國泰投信進行實地檢查。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:29:26.018000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:29:32.242000+08:00","text":"我在講2026年1月23號，第一次發生的時候。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T10:29:33.322000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:29:41.787000+08:00","text":"我剛才跟委員說明過，檢查並不是說一有通報我們就派員檢查，我們需要檢查，就是因為我們沒辦法掌握資訊的時候。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T10:29:42.648000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:29:53.696000+08:00","text":"他已經主動地去通知這件事情，我們當然可以跟他要很多很多的資料，請他人來說明，直到我們覺得有必要的時候，我們就派員實地去檢查。","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T10:29:55.497000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:30:01.902000+08:00","text":"這個並不必然一有通報就要派員去檢查，我想大家可能不是很理解我們監理上面的實務，所以這是一個誤解。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:30:02.182000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:30:11.888000+08:00","text":"所以你想想看嘛，國泰投信列帳賠了四億多，可見這個事情是非常非常的嚴重。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:30:12.649000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:30:25.978000+08:00","text":"如果像主委這樣子講的話，因為你怕觸犯金融上的秩序，也怕造成投資人的恐慌，你用這麼溫暖的一個方式……","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T10:30:26.258000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:30:26.858000+08:00","text":"其實不是溫暖。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T10:30:27.379000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:30:28.639000+08:00","text":"委員，這是一個正常程序。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T10:30:29.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:30:44.608000+08:00","text":"就像我們一定要釐清事實才能夠做相關處理，不能夠聽到一件事情就確定這個就是真的，我們必須要真的完全地了解真實情況才能處理，這是任何……","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:30:44.608000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:30:47.509000+08:00","text":"郭明鑑就沒有記取你的這個經驗啊！","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:30:47.729000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:30:53.812000+08:00","text":"你看他今年5月27號，再度出任榮成的董事啊！","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:30:54.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:30:57.134000+08:00","text":"可見他沒有把金管會放在眼裡嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T10:30:57.134000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T10:30:58.335000+08:00","text":"所以我剛才講，如果事實是這樣的話，我們就必須……","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:30:58.335000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:30:59.096000+08:00","text":"你講的話，他認為不夠嚴重。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T10:31:04.181000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:31:10.769000+08:00","text":"在整個內控機制，本來就有一套他們該要申報而且要查核的機制，就剛才講他們自己的……","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:31:11.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:31:13.112000+08:00","text":"可是社會大眾看起來他是累犯耶！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:31:14.711000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:31:14.851000+08:00","text":"他是累犯耶！","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:31:16.374000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:31:24.686000+08:00","text":"他為什麼一直不斷地……你們講他這麼厲害，結果他一直不斷地在走他自己的路。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:31:24.947000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:31:29.614000+08:00","text":"我還是在想，這整個事件圖利到誰？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:31:29.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:31:29.974000+08:00","text":"誰獲利最多？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:31:30.655000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:31:31.115000+08:00","text":"我看不懂。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:31:31.896000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:31:34.578000+08:00","text":"好，我們回來講制度面。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:31:37.540000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:31:56.052000+08:00","text":"你們金管會要求所有的銀行、金控出具內部控制制度聲明書，有沒有辦法從這個聲明書裡頭，董事長、總經理還有總稽核這些列上名字的人、簽字的人，從這個地方來處理、來處罰，有沒有機會？","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T10:32:00.895000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:32:08.557000+08:00","text":"當然，我剛才講說他們的內控制度都已經訂在那邊，為什麼沒有落實導致違反規定？","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T10:32:09.018000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:32:13.379000+08:00","text":"這是我們要確認釐清，該罰就要罰，我們會依法來辦理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:32:13.959000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:32:16.160000+08:00","text":"主委，他就是簽給你的嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:32:16.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:32:17.320000+08:00","text":"你要不要罰他？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T10:32:18.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:32:23.062000+08:00","text":"我剛剛跟委員說明了，假設他確定違反規定以後，當然該罰就要罰。","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:32:24.601000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:32:36.823000+08:00","text":"我再講，甚至虛偽的隱匿或制度的失衡，你要很嚴肅地去看待這件事情。當然。","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:32:38.184000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:32:53.972000+08:00","text":"我還是重新再聲明一下，這個聲明書裡頭簽字的人，你要不要從這個方向去要求他們？","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T10:32:53.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:32:57.974000+08:00","text":"這當然是我們要看整套制度為什麼會失靈，很重要的關鍵。是、是。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:32:59.435000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:33:01.816000+08:00","text":"所以你看，這不是只有金控喔！","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:33:03.017000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:33:08.743000+08:00","text":"像臺灣銀行也一樣有內控的缺失。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:33:09.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:33:15.425000+08:00","text":"不管金控還是國立銀行也是一樣。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:33:16.225000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:33:22.566000+08:00","text":"這樣子的話，監察院糾正這些缺失，顯然力道是不夠的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:33:23.106000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:33:29.328000+08:00","text":"所以你針對糾正案文所舉出的內容，財政部有什麼相應的改善措施嗎？","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T10:33:30.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:33:39.763000+08:00","text":"我們在對他的處罰函裡面就有要求他要按照怎麼做，我們後續都有一個一個去檢核他是不是按照我們的要求來處理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:33:41.513000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:33:51.781000+08:00","text":"監察院講，後來多名涉案違失人員，年度考績都是列為甲等啊！","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:33:53.843000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:33:56.545000+08:00","text":"這個防護網二度的破口，我們大家怎麼來看它？","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:33:57.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:33:59.907000+08:00","text":"這個糾正案文寫得非常地清楚啊！","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:34:00.728000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:34:08.494000+08:00","text":"主委，我想你可能要再多花一些精神，因為顯然內稽內控是失衡的非常地厲害。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T10:34:09.096000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:34:17.682000+08:00","text":"我想金融機構內控做得不好，我們該檢討，責無旁貸，我們會努力來做。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T10:34:18.402000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:34:26.067000+08:00","text":"至於各個金融機構，他們站在第一線，真的要好好落實他們內控內稽，我想這是他們該做的，我們會做我們該做的事。","quality":0.787},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:34:26.067000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:34:37.394000+08:00","text":"我不希望這兩件事件是巧合，因為這個還延續上一屆主委的領導風格到你現在整體的領導。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"賴委員惠員","start":"2026-07-01T10:34:37.394000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:34:48.761000+08:00","text":"當然我不會去講說因為你的下面有誰在當門神，所以影響到你的整個判讀，不過還是跟主委做一個提醒。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T10:34:49.122000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:34:49.782000+08:00","text":"對，我還是強調一下，沒有門神這件事情，謝謝。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T10:34:50.282000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T10:34:51.710571+08:00","text":"謝謝賴委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T10:34:52.010571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T10:34:55.724857+08:00","text":"下一位質詢委員請李彥秀委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T10:34:56.024857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T10:34:59.739143+08:00","text":"李彥秀委員質詢之後休息5分鐘。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T10:35:00.039143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T10:35:02.896286+08:00","text":"現在請李彥秀委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":935,"blocks":[["賴委員惠員：（10時24分）謝謝主席，請金管會主委。"],["主席：請金管會彭主委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員，早安。"],["賴委員惠員：主委，早安。郭國文委員打上半場，我打下半場，這是國泰投資事件大事紀，我覺得很奇怪，關於國泰金控、國泰投信的爭議，我一直覺得是內控機制疏失引發出這一連串的事務，難道金管會都沒有發現這些疏失嗎？依現行法規規定，銀行董事長到底可不可以兼任其他公司董事，有沒有這樣的規定？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我先從後面的問題回答委員，第一個，我們在金融機構負責人的兼職其實有明確規範，金融機構和金融機構之間的兼職原則是採禁止，例外是同意，基本上，你在一個金融機構擔任負責人，就不太可能在其他金融機構擔任負責人，除非有投資關係，比如金控公司或是你對它有投資關係，這是非常嚴格的。但是金控公司的負責人對非金融業的兼職，現在的規定是不可以兼董事長、總經理或職務相當的職務，至於其他的董事部分，我們是回到由他們自己去評估，你讓你的負責人兼職必須要確保沒有利益衝突，而且要定期檢視，現行規定是這樣。"],["賴委員惠員：主委，郭明鑑有沒有提出申報他要兼這些公司的獨董？"],["彭主任委員金隆：如果這件事情有即時申報的話，假設這個情況有即時申報，公司就會註記，公司有註記的話就不會產生這個結果。"],["賴委員惠員：所以就是公司沒有註記嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們先不要針對個案，假設這個負責人自己有真的做好申報，公司沒有去執行，那是一個問題，如果他沒有去申報，公司當然不會去執行，公司是不是……"],["賴委員惠員：郭明鑑到底有沒有提出申請，國泰投信有沒有跟金管會申報，我要知道結果是怎麼樣？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們現在看到的是，如果國泰投信有接到他的申報的話，應該就會做防堵。"],["賴委員惠員：現在查到這個時候，以你來看這整個案子，從去年6月到今年5月，到底有沒有申報？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我想在國泰投信的部分，應該是程序沒有完備，所以才會導致他的結果。"],["賴委員惠員：他們說郭明鑑是「併購金童」，投資界給他這樣子的名稱，那要給林修銘什麼樣的金童？他也很厲害啊，對不對？如果這麼厲害的人都不守法的話，這個踩線的機制，你要怎麼拆解它呢？他的身分重疊，觸犯法規的限制，我們可以不管他嗎？顯然現在在管理的部分，大家都究責金管會在管理上面好像是慢了很多拍。你怎麼解釋呢？"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝委員給我機會。我剛剛講過，大家都以為這件事情一發生，主管機關就會直接做一個判定。我想很多事情，我們必須充分去理解，因為我們是主管機關，我們做任何的決定跟裁罰，一定要充分地掌握所有的資訊跟確切的證據以後，確定是不是已經有違規事實，且沒有其他的問題，以及我們要進行相關的行政程序……"],["賴委員惠員：我覺得這樣講，是不是可以再修正一下？2026年1月23號，國泰投信已經跟金管會通報重大偶發事件，並依規定應於7天內函報詳細資料跟改善措施。你們到底有沒有在7天之後去處理這些事情？顯然是沒有嘛！"],["彭主任委員金隆：沒有，他的資料過來，我們覺得還有很大需要釐清的地方。所以我剛才跟委員報告過，我們有多次不管是透過行文、約詢，或是用其他的方式通知他補件說明，這些都是我們正常的監理程序，只是外界以為我們都完全沒有作為。"],["賴委員惠員：主委，我請教你，如果像現在他第二次再發生事件，6月18號一樣有一個重大事件發生。第一次的時候，檢查局有沒有進駐在國泰投信？"],["彭主任委員金隆：剛才檢查局局長已經說明過了，現在進駐在國泰投信進行實地檢查。"],["賴委員惠員：我在講2026年1月23號，第一次發生的時候。"],["彭主任委員金隆：我剛才跟委員說明過，檢查並不是說一有通報我們就派員檢查，我們需要檢查，就是因為我們沒辦法掌握資訊的時候。他已經主動地去通知這件事情，我們當然可以跟他要很多很多的資料，請他人來說明，直到我們覺得有必要的時候，我們就派員實地去檢查。這個並不必然一有通報就要派員去檢查，我想大家可能不是很理解我們監理上面的實務，所以這是一個誤解。"],["賴委員惠員：所以你想想看嘛，國泰投信列帳賠了四億多，可見這個事情是非常非常的嚴重。如果像主委這樣子講的話，因為你怕觸犯金融上的秩序，也怕造成投資人的恐慌，你用這麼溫暖的一個方式……"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實不是溫暖。委員，這是一個正常程序。就像我們一定要釐清事實才能夠做相關處理，不能夠聽到一件事情就確定這個就是真的，我們必須要真的完全地了解真實情況才能處理，這是任何……"],["賴委員惠員：郭明鑑就沒有記取你的這個經驗啊！你看他今年5月27號，再度出任榮成的董事啊！可見他沒有把金管會放在眼裡嘛！"],["彭主任委員金隆：所以我剛才講，如果事實是這樣的話，我們就必須……"],["賴委員惠員：你講的話，他認為不夠嚴重。"],["彭主任委員金隆：在整個內控機制，本來就有一套他們該要申報而且要查核的機制，就剛才講他們自己的……"],["賴委員惠員：可是社會大眾看起來他是累犯耶！他是累犯耶！他為什麼一直不斷地……你們講他這麼厲害，結果他一直不斷地在走他自己的路。我還是在想，這整個事件圖利到誰？誰獲利最多？我看不懂。","好，我們回來講制度面。你們金管會要求所有的銀行、金控出具內部控制制度聲明書，有沒有辦法從這個聲明書裡頭，董事長、總經理還有總稽核這些列上名字的人、簽字的人，從這個地方來處理、來處罰，有沒有機會？"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然，我剛才講說他們的內控制度都已經訂在那邊，為什麼沒有落實導致違反規定？這是我們要確認釐清，該罰就要罰，我們會依法來辦理。"],["賴委員惠員：主委，他就是簽給你的嘛！你要不要罰他？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我剛剛跟委員說明了，假設他確定違反規定以後，當然該罰就要罰。"],["賴委員惠員：我再講，甚至虛偽的隱匿或制度的失衡，你要很嚴肅地去看待這件事情。"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然。"],["賴委員惠員：我還是重新再聲明一下，這個聲明書裡頭簽字的人，你要不要從這個方向去要求他們？"],["彭主任委員金隆：這當然是我們要看整套制度為什麼會失靈，很重要的關鍵。"],["賴委員惠員：是、是。所以你看，這不是只有金控喔！像臺灣銀行也一樣有內控的缺失。不管金控還是國立銀行也是一樣。這樣子的話，監察院糾正這些缺失，顯然力道是不夠的。所以你針對糾正案文所舉出的內容，財政部有什麼相應的改善措施嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們在對他的處罰函裡面就有要求他要按照怎麼做，我們後續都有一個一個去檢核他是不是按照我們的要求來處理。"],["賴委員惠員：監察院講，後來多名涉案違失人員，年度考績都是列為甲等啊！這個防護網二度的破口，我們大家怎麼來看它？這個糾正案文寫得非常地清楚啊！主委，我想你可能要再多花一些精神，因為顯然內稽內控是失衡的非常地厲害。"],["彭主任委員金隆：我想金融機構內控做得不好，我們該檢討，責無旁貸，我們會努力來做。至於各個金融機構，他們站在第一線，真的要好好落實他們內控內稽，我想這是他們該做的，我們會做我們該做的事。"],["賴委員惠員：我不希望這兩件事件是巧合，因為這個還延續上一屆主委的領導風格到你現在整體的領導。當然我不會去講說因為你的下面有誰在當門神，所以影響到你的整個判讀，不過還是跟主委做一個提醒。"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，我還是強調一下，沒有門神這件事情，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝賴委員。","下一位質詢委員請李彥秀委員。李彥秀委員質詢之後休息5分鐘。現在請李彥秀委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":556,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-20-20","speakers":["吳秉叡","林德福","賴士葆","郭國文","林岱樺","劉書彬","賴惠員","李彥秀","顏寬恒","羅明才","陳玉珍","王世堅","李坤城","林楚茵","許忠信","楊瓊瓔","林思銘"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2026-07-01"],"gazette_id":"1155602","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155602_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、彙總整理提出「中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案審查總報告（公務預算部分）草案」提\n報院會案；二、彙總整理提出「中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業及非營業\n部分審查總報告草案」提報院會案；三、審查本院委員吳秉叡等20人擬具「會計師法部分條文修\n正草案」案；四、審查本院委員吳秉叡等21人、委員李彥秀等18人分別擬具「證券交易稅條例第\n二條之一條文修正草案」等2案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1155602_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}