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10:35:11","會議時間":"2026-07-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第24次全體委員會議（變更議程）（事由：邀請國防部、外交部、海洋委員會海巡署、大陸委員會報告「中國船舶常態化巡弋我國海域之因應作為」，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":0.03096875,"end":3.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.79409375,"end":4.8572187499999995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10.544093750000002,"end":47.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.03346875,"end":11.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11.72534375,"end":11.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.02784375,"end":53.001593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.204093750000006,"end":54.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.267218750000005,"end":54.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.52034375,"end":54.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.53721875,"end":54.570968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.02659375,"end":59.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":58.13159375,"end":59.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.595343750000005,"end":79.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":61.27034375,"end":61.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":66.99096875000001,"end":67.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":67.98659375,"end":68.03721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.90034375,"end":83.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.31346875,"end":82.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.42721875000001,"end":84.69284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":84.69284375000001,"end":85.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.04721875,"end":89.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.14346875000001,"end":90.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.51471875,"end":91.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.37534375,"end":91.66221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.66221875000001,"end":105.55034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.67909375,"end":91.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":105.55034375000001,"end":140.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.86971875,"end":152.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":152.58096875,"end":152.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.68221875,"end":157.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":157.76159375,"end":158.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.09909375,"end":163.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":158.11596875,"end":158.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":162.30096875,"end":162.60471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":163.63409375,"end":163.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.65096875,"end":163.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":163.68471875,"end":163.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.71846875,"end":171.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":171.97034375,"end":201.01221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":210.51284375,"end":260.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":260.59784375000004,"end":304.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":304.55721875,"end":304.60784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":304.64159375,"end":304.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":304.69221875,"end":313.68659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":304.70909375,"end":304.82721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":314.02409375,"end":328.16534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":318.07409375000003,"end":318.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":318.15846875,"end":318.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":318.20909375,"end":318.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":318.27659375,"end":318.29346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":318.29346875000005,"end":318.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":320.14971875000003,"end":320.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":325.80284375,"end":325.92096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":328.14846875,"end":328.62096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":328.53659375,"end":339.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":335.33721875000003,"end":335.75909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":339.40409375,"end":339.87659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":339.62346875000003,"end":346.94721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":346.93034375,"end":347.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":347.13284375,"end":358.11846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":350.08596875,"end":350.42346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":358.03409375,"end":358.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":358.38846875,"end":367.85534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":361.32471875000005,"end":361.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":361.83096875,"end":361.84784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":366.53909375,"end":366.91034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":367.85534375000003,"end":429.38159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.11096875000004,"end":379.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":429.55034375,"end":432.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.53284375000004,"end":446.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":438.25784375,"end":438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我們海巡堅定執法立場永遠不會變那我舉5月11號 同季號科研團在東部海域作業一直到所謂東部專項他們活動結束這六月底 一個半月時間海巡署發布了22次新聞稿"},{"start":159.221,"end":181.966,"text":"針對中國所謂的假執法增擴權或增騷擾我們嚴正駁斥它在國際法跟國際法公約裡面它是沒有管轄權跟任何海洋權利這部分我們是堅守立場絕對不會退讓這個假執法就在你們的新聞稿裡面提到說這個假執法增擴權這其實有很高的重要性因為有時候我們不要讓他們去定義是什麼狀況是我們去定義"},{"start":182.746,"end":200.408,"text":"我們的海域我們定義嘛所以當我們定義說比如說它這個是假的在執行那這個時候它就是那我們就用這個來當作事實然後以及我們的標準來執法這樣就比較不會被他們影響到那個邊界那謝謝那接下來我想請這個陸委會副主委謝謝"},{"start":210.936,"end":226.336,"text":"好 謝謝陳副主委這個因為就是剛剛提到就是再繼續往下一些就是法律戰的問題那一部分當然就是說我們現在海巡的掌握剛剛聽起來應該是沒有什麼太大的問題那但下一個就是呢這一個畢竟他們科研船現在闖入我們這個經濟海域"},{"start":227.677,"end":245.683,"text":"他們就宣稱這是什麼生態的保護啊什麼等等之類的那因為日非之前的事件現在中國就是故意用台灣是中國的一部分這樣的一個講法然後呢說他擁有這樣的一個介入的權利那這個對我來講就是2758號之後又是一次的法律戰這是第一層次"},{"start":246.283,"end":269.78,"text":"那剛剛海巡他有他的標準這個比較沒有問題那接下來就是我們在反擊的時候我看到海委會其實也有講對不對就是說你今天如果真的要符合必須要是假設我們今天有人有消極的權利結果卻不發聲又或者說他是完全沒有人所主宰的海域那這樣的話才會有宣稱的空間嘛但我們都沒有所以我們這邊定義清楚我剛剛聽海巡講應該沒什麼問題但是下一個就是這個團結法"},{"start":273.323,"end":292.031,"text":"民族團結這個進步促進法現在這件事情我覺得會是下一個戰場我剛剛聽到楚英委員有先問了一下就是說過往我們在2758的戰場是一個那現在因為本來有香港的國安法但這個民族團結進步促進法它所涵蓋的範圍它可以直接用刑法"},{"start":292.631,"end":313.611,"text":"就可以說反正你非統即獨嘛那這個對我們你不要說是台商啦就是任何的就算你是在台灣你只要你不主張統一他就說你是台獨了那這個時候民族團結進步促進法對他的這個法律權的擴張我認為會非常大那現在陸委會對這件事情的這個應對方案大概會是如何"},{"start":314.196,"end":338.036,"text":"對 我們確實有高度關注這部法律事實上在今年年初兩會通過的時候我們就已經提出示警那今天正式實施那之前我們也看到說包含這個歐盟啊 德國啦 美國在內都有高度的對這部法律來提出警告那我們接下來大概就是說也是一樣一方面是呼籲就是說中共應該要停止使用這種跨境鎮壓法律化或者是促統法律化的這樣的脅迫行為來破壞兩岸關係"},{"start":339.717,"end":366.32,"text":"那另外來說的話我們也會提醒國人並且跟這個有盟國家進一步的來去在進行這個法律上面的一個論述跟反制比如說像這個剛剛所提到的海域東部海域的部分我們有注意到像是德國英國法國包含像AIT都非常具體的提到台灣在這邊海域有70年的一個和平的管轄權所以像民主團結進步促進法也可以用類似的方式我們跟其他的這個有盟國家共同來呼籲中國停止使用法律來進行跨境鎮壓這種殘暴的行為"},{"start":368.421,"end":389.61,"text":"對 因為我剛剛本來想問民旗市長但是我覺得這個應該就不用了 因為時間已經到了但是確實就是說剛剛講的我們跟友盟因為2758我們之所以能夠反擊是因為我們跟友盟共同宣稱那這一次他們對於這個海域的侵擾也是一個友盟的共同宣稱那再下一步就是跟2758跟這一個剛剛講海域侵擾一樣我們面對的是民族團結進步促進法它今天會影響的絕對也不是只有我們"},{"start":393.371,"end":419.462,"text":"所以在這一個方面就像剛剛副主委提到了如果今天能夠去跟友盟一起發聲明的時候因為就變成說我們自己有我們的標準嘛就是剛剛海巡提醒的就是說我們不要跟著他的定義走當然我們可以告訴民眾說中國的定義是什麼他非統籍獨嘛所以我們有哪些人會受到影響但我們在國際的時候如果能夠用一樣的方式針對因為我覺得他是下一個戰場那我們針對這一個如果能夠有一些不管是共同的聲明"},{"start":420.442,"end":427.786,"text":"去反擊他的法律論述我覺得這個對我們來講應該是非常有利但我看到明其次長站起來那是不是還是就針對這個來做個結尾這樣是然後那個感謝委員的垂訊"},{"start":433.858,"end":460.25,"text":"從上次這個2758號其實是從智庫German Marshall Fund開始有一個長文來做那這一次我們會把這相關的中國近期的法律戰的作為第一個是說跟智庫第二跟國際法學者提供必要的法律同時我們會在所有的這個理念相近的國家示警這個東西影響的並不是我這剛才這個委員講的還是比較這個我們的陸委員講的比較客氣這個東西不是一個觸同這是一個破同"},{"start":461.691,"end":483.399,"text":"的一個方式來進行那我相信對所有的國際上所有的人士的這個權益都受到這個損害那我們希望這個基礎上面能夠共同的努力能夠push back在中國這個上面的那也感謝委員的這個指導我覺得我們會全力的來進行對 真的非常感謝因為我覺得這兩點第一個就是台灣人其實大部分的人都說我們要維持現狀"},{"start":484.179,"end":500.214,"text":"但真正在破壞現狀的意思都不是我們破壞現狀的是中國所以他用各式各樣的方式不斷的在破壞現狀而且就像剛剛講的就是他們其實也會花資源找智庫找國外的政治人物擁抱熊貓派的勢力是會不斷壯大的所以在這方面就是還請外交部繼續這個對抗當然這個我們總運算也是要趕快審"},{"start":504.438,"end":519.729,"text":"是但是無論如何就是說這個有預算才有辦法做事我覺得這是確實是重要的事但是在跟中國尤其在海外他們這個法律戰的對抗真的有賴各部會的協調跟合作是我們會跟陸委會通力的合作一起把這樣我方的訴求能夠推廣到國際上面去好謝謝感謝主席"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}