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Kacaw委員","start":565.19159375,"end":567.95909375,"speaker_score":0.954}],"whisperx":[{"start":14.014,"end":22.337,"text":"主席還有我們各部會的官員我們先請那個國發會的主委我們請國發會的主委坐著"},{"start":29.687,"end":58.481,"text":"好這個今天非常謝謝召委安排今天的一個議程我們看一下這個臨日供給這個案子當然都不是這個都是之前的案子了那這個案子這個在經濟委員會或是總諮詢這個很多委員都提過請問一下以現在的檢討來看"},{"start":60.885,"end":83.323,"text":"你們對這個案子的檢討是怎麼樣?有檢討過嗎?這個案子好像還沒有提到那個嗎?沒有檢討這個是文化部的案子那所以文化部是他們內部國發基金的這是用國發基金是國發基金是國發會主管的"},{"start":86.525,"end":113.557,"text":"所以不能因为之前也你们的答复就是这样这是错的真的要检讨我们直接就从法律来看产业创新条例写得很清楚为加速产业创新价值促进经济转型及国家发展林日光级他是一部电影一部电影呢"},{"start":115.319,"end":138.141,"text":"跟產業創新價值有什麼關係跟促進經濟轉型及國家發展有什麼關係對這個是國發會要去檢討的雖然說那個是文化部是在主導但是畢竟是國發基金沒有錯吧是用國發基金吧沒有錯好"},{"start":139.81,"end":167.791,"text":"我們看看產業創新條例第30條國發基金的用途寫得清清楚楚沒有一款是符合的就算是行政院專案核准其他經行政院專案核准也必須符合產業創新條例第29條都必須要符合"},{"start":169.209,"end":191.267,"text":"沒有一個符合有啦那個委員你看那個第四條下面有一個文化創意發展這個部分錯了我就知道你要講這個到現在為止都還沒有真正的檢討一部電影怎麼會是文化創意發展呢它就不是一部電影呢過去的戰爭的電影呢"},{"start":198.126,"end":211.975,"text":"你可以从其他的但是不要用国发基金你可以用文化部的经费可以文化部的经费有符合的但是就不是文化创意发展"},{"start":213.142,"end":239.7,"text":"不過這邊再跟那個委員報告一下就是那個文化部的文化創意的那個條例裡面其實有寫說我們國發基金其實不是不是那個文化部的那個創業條例是另外但是他是針對他的經費並不表示沒有他裡面有那個那個主委如果到現在還這樣的話那就這個國發基金就可以亂花了"},{"start":240.95,"end":265.045,"text":"那就全部花在原住民身上好了原住民的創業很多需要的啊有嗎 沒有一筆啊到目前沒有一筆啊你回去清查一下不要跟我搶便你回去清查一下原住民的創業產業創新好 我們看這個第一條未促進產業創新"},{"start":268.424,"end":295.651,"text":"第一條產業創新條例第一條為促進產業創新改善產業環境提升產業競爭力指農業工業及服務業等各行業所以我們還是要回到這個第29條國發基金設立國發基金的目的對不對"},{"start":296.909,"end":320.763,"text":"你回去檢視一下國發基金有沒有用在原住民的產業創新跟經濟轉型沒有啊所以你跟我搶騙啊真的已經有這麼多的立委質疑了我們也會認真的考慮所以這個部分這是作為一個國發會"},{"start":324.349,"end":348.154,"text":"我常常以什麼例子 你們一定要借鏡台灣之所以現在的經濟發展台積電是不是一個很重要的是不是 台積電不只台積電 其他都還蠻 都也很重要台積電 你要否認如果你否認的話 台積電當時啊國家的經濟多麼的"},{"start":353.902,"end":380.247,"text":"不如現在的情況之下而那時候是要以反攻大陸為主的年代當時的經濟部長當時的政務委員當時的行政院院長當時的總統能夠去那個年代去投入而現在有這樣的一個這麼多的經費"},{"start":382.25,"end":399.084,"text":"要有這樣的一個,而不是把錢亂花啦這個很重要跟委員報告,我們那個錢真的都還審查算蠻嚴格的我們真的很嚴格在審查你現在很嚴格,以前不嚴格啦都不是講你現在的,好不好接下來請經濟部長"},{"start":413.592,"end":438.728,"text":"好當然這個跟國發會也有關係跟經濟部也有關係當然這個適逢電力這個原住民都抗議了然後諮商同意都沒有過環評也沒有過就這樣國發基金投入對不對這個就是一個需要去大大的檢討的地方啦大大的檢討"},{"start":440.814,"end":464.674,"text":"好 接下來 我就開始 因為時間不多我就回到這個最新的也不是很新 以這個馬灘吸煙社府來講潰壩已經快十個月了快十個月這個是三期段鳳林鎮三星里那邊的三期段這個部分"},{"start":466.251,"end":489.008,"text":"上次我有質詢過 當時水利署署長也同意要開始做現在進度怎麼樣進度報告委員 這個應該是在花蓮溪的部分 三星大馬那邊我們會來整治好 我要看這個地圖"},{"start":493.587,"end":517.119,"text":"這旺里溪這段時間經濟部水利署也很辛苦了這個堤防的加固加高都在進行中這個地方我上次有跟這個署長提過剛才那個部分這個部分它是花蓮溪那因為馬灘溪的兩側"},{"start":520.526,"end":528.131,"text":"提防都加固加高了未來的衝擊就在這裡加上加上忘記"},{"start":529.693,"end":558.067,"text":"對不對加上望里溪啊就是在這個點是 這個我們會來努力花蓮溪跟這個望里溪然後上面你都加固加高了所以這個地方是未來最大的衝擊點沒有錯 我們會來努力好不好是 是應該的所以這個部分是一個對對需要特別去有 我們今天有盤點會積極來辦因為我目前看你們的施作的那個在這個區塊"},{"start":560.268,"end":566.882,"text":"還是不足對我們會來努力上次有承諾委員我們會來積極辦理沒問題是謝謝委員好加油謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T10:57:19.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:57:24.976000+08:00","text":"主席還有我們各部會的官員，我們先請國發會的主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T10:57:25.216000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:57:26.716000+08:00","text":"我們請國發會葉主委。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T10:57:27.097000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:57:34.687000+08:00","text":"你不方便，坐著就好。","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T10:57:36.308000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:57:49.995000+08:00","text":"非常謝謝召委安排今天的議程，我們看一下零日攻擊這個案子，當然都是之前的案子了。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T10:57:51.676000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:58:00.360000+08:00","text":"這個案子在經濟委員會或是總質詢時，很多委員都提過。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T10:58:00.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:58:09.728000+08:00","text":"請問一下，以現在的檢討來看，你們對這個案子的檢討是怎麼樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T10:58:09.728000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:58:11.309000+08:00","text":"有檢討過嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-07-01T10:58:11.309000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:58:12.370000+08:00","text":"這個案子好像還沒有提到管理委員會。","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T10:58:14.212000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:58:15.913000+08:00","text":"沒有檢討？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-07-01T10:58:15.913000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:58:19.516000+08:00","text":"這個是文化部的案子，所以是文化部他們內部先審查……","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T10:58:21.437000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:58:28.303000+08:00","text":"不是，國發基金啦，這是用國發基金喔，國發基金是國發會主管的。是。","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T10:58:31.525000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:58:41.389000+08:00","text":"所以不能因為……之前你們的答復就是這樣，這是錯的，真的要檢討，我們直接就從法律來看。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T10:58:44.831000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:58:53.475000+08:00","text":"產業創新條例寫得很清楚，為加速產業創新加值，促進經濟轉型及國家發展。","quality":0.484},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T10:58:55.095000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:59:04.683000+08:00","text":"零日攻擊它是一部電影，一部電影跟產業創新加值有什麼關係？","quality":0.731},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T10:59:04.683000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:59:10.669000+08:00","text":"跟促進經濟轉型及國家發展有什麼關係？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T10:59:10.669000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:59:12.251000+08:00","text":"這是國發會要去檢討的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T10:59:13.812000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:59:20.419000+08:00","text":"雖然說那個是文化部在主導，但畢竟是國發基金，沒有錯吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T10:59:21.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:59:21.880000+08:00","text":"是用國發基金吧！是。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T10:59:22.841000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:59:23.121000+08:00","text":"沒有錯，好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T10:59:24.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:59:52.771000+08:00","text":"我們看到產業創新條例第三十條，國發基金的用途寫得清清楚楚，沒有一款是符合的，就算是行政院專案核准的，其他經行政院專案核准的也必須符合產業創新條例第二十九條，都必須要符合啊！","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T10:59:54.209000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T10:59:55.030000+08:00","text":"它沒有一個符合。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-07-01T10:59:55.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:00:00.694000+08:00","text":"有啦，委員，你看第四款裡面有一個「文化創意發展」。錯了！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:00:02.196000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:00:09.081000+08:00","text":"我就知道你要講這個，可見到現在為止都沒有真正地檢討！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:00:09.081000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:00:13.105000+08:00","text":"一部電影怎麼會是文化創意發展呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:00:14.946000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:00:16.107000+08:00","text":"它就是一部和過去的戰爭有關的電影啊！","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:00:23.126000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:00:26.668000+08:00","text":"你可以用其他的，但是不要用國發基金。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:00:27.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:00:36.955000+08:00","text":"你可以用文化部的經費，文化部的經費有符合的，但就不是文化創意發展！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-07-01T11:00:38.302000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:00:47.348000+08:00","text":"再跟委員報告一下，文化部那個文化創意產業發展法裡面其實有寫國發基金也是需要去……","quality":0.649},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:00:48.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:00:56.994000+08:00","text":"不是、不是，文化部那個文化創意產業發展法是另外的，那是針對它的經費，並不表示……","quality":0.676},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-07-01T11:00:58.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:00:59.216000+08:00","text":"它裡面有匡列說……","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:00:59.776000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:01:04.680000+08:00","text":"主委，如果到現在還這樣的話，這個國發基金就可以亂花了！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:01:05.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:01:07.991000+08:00","text":"那就全部花在原住民身上好了！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:01:09.752000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:01:12.574000+08:00","text":"原住民的創業很多，有嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:01:12.574000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:01:13.435000+08:00","text":"沒有一筆啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:01:14.235000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:01:15.796000+08:00","text":"到目前都沒有一筆啊！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-07-01T11:01:15.796000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T11:01:16.796000+08:00","text":"但它那個是立法院通過的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:01:16.677000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:01:18.458000+08:00","text":"你回去清查一下，不要跟我強辯。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:01:19.438000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:01:25.382000+08:00","text":"你回去清查一下原住民的創業、產業、創新。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:01:26.502000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:01:58.090000+08:00","text":"我們看產創條例第一條，第一項是「為促進產業創新，改善產業環境，提升產業競爭力……」，第二項是「……指農業、工業及服務業等各行業」，所以我們還是要回到第二十九條，看看國發基金的設立目的。","quality":0.803},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:02:01.909000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:02:12.375000+08:00","text":"你回去檢視一下，國發基金有沒有用在原住民的產業創新和經濟轉型，沒有啊！","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-07-01T11:02:12.375000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T11:02:13.616000+08:00","text":"但我們……","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:02:13.616000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:02:15.857000+08:00","text":"所以不要跟我強辯啦！真的！","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:02:16.537000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:02:20.440000+08:00","text":"已經有這麼多立委質疑了……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-07-01T11:02:20.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:02:23.942000+08:00","text":"假如原民會有提出需求的話，我們也會認真考慮。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:02:25.763000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:02:40.131000+08:00","text":"對於國發會，我常常舉一個例子，你們一定要借鏡：臺灣之所以有現在的經濟發展，台積電是不是一個很重要的因素？","quality":0.809},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:02:41.071000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:02:41.292000+08:00","text":"是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-07-01T11:02:43.292000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:02:45.872000+08:00","text":"不只台積電，其他也都很重要。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:02:48.233000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:02:50.133000+08:00","text":"好，台積電你沒有否認。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:02:50.133000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:03:32.254000+08:00","text":"如果你否認的話就……台積電成立時，國家經濟多麼不如現在，而且那是以反攻大陸為主的年代，當時的經濟部長、當時的政務委員、當時的行政院院長、當時的總統能夠去投入，而現在有這麼多的經費，要有這樣的眼光，而不是把錢亂花，這個很重要。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-07-01T11:03:33.175000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:03:39.220000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們真的很嚴格在審查那筆錢。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:03:40.521000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:03:42.723000+08:00","text":"你現在很嚴格，以前不嚴格啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉主任委員俊顯","start":"2026-07-01T11:03:42.723000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T11:03:43.723000+08:00","text":"都很嚴格、都很嚴格。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:03:42.863000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:03:43.123000+08:00","text":"我都不是講你現在的！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:03:43.203000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:03:43.424000+08:00","text":"好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:03:43.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:03:44.084000+08:00","text":"接下來請經濟部部長。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T11:03:44.084000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T11:03:58.592000+08:00","text":"請部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-07-01T11:03:58.592000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:03:58.592000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:04:01.094000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:04:18.324000+08:00","text":"世豐電力的事情和國發會有關，也和經濟部有關，原住民都抗議了，不只諮商同意沒有過，環評也沒有過，就讓國發基金投入，對不對？","quality":0.755},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:04:18.324000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:04:22.687000+08:00","text":"這就是一個需要大力檢討的地方。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:04:27.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:05:02.540000+08:00","text":"因為時間不多，我就回到馬太鞍溪堰塞湖的問題，馬太鞍溪堰塞湖潰壩已經快10個月了，花蓮縣鳳林鎮山興里山崎段農田受災的事情上次我有質詢過，當時水利署署長也同意要開始處理，現在進度怎麼樣？","quality":0.627},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-07-01T11:05:02.540000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T11:05:05.422000+08:00","text":"我請署長說明一下。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林署長元鵬","start":"2026-07-01T11:05:05.422000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:05:08.844000+08:00","text":"報告委員，這應該是屬於花蓮溪的部分，山興段嘛！","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:05:08.844000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T11:05:10.386000+08:00","text":"對，沒錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林署長元鵬","start":"2026-07-01T11:05:10.386000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:05:11.907000+08:00","text":"那邊我們會來整治。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:05:13.568000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:05:18.927000+08:00","text":"我們來看地圖，這是萬里溪。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:05:23.289000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:05:31.494000+08:00","text":"這段時間經濟部水利署也很辛苦，堤防加固加高都在進行中。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林署長元鵬","start":"2026-07-01T11:05:31.494000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T11:05:33.434000+08:00","text":"對，2公里我們都已經完成了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:05:33.434000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:05:58.495000+08:00","text":"這個堤防我上次有跟署長提過，剛剛說的山興里山崎段是花蓮溪，因為馬太鞍溪兩側堤防都加固加高了，未來的衝擊就在這裡，加上萬里溪，就是在這個點，對不對？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"林署長元鵬","start":"2026-07-01T11:05:58.495000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:05:59.215000+08:00","text":"是，這個我們會來努力。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:05:59.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:06:09.861000+08:00","text":"花蓮溪和萬里溪交會，上面你都加固加高了，所以這個地方是未來最大的衝擊點。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"林署長元鵬","start":"2026-07-01T11:06:09.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:06:11.581000+08:00","text":"沒有錯，我們會來努力。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:06:11.922000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:06:12.062000+08:00","text":"好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林署長元鵬","start":"2026-07-01T11:06:12.562000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:06:13.262000+08:00","text":"是，這應該的。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:06:14.403000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:06:16.984000+08:00","text":"這個部分是需要特別去加強的。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"林署長元鵬","start":"2026-07-01T11:06:17.364000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:06:19.966000+08:00","text":"有，我們已經有盤點了，會積極辦理。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:06:19.966000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:06:25.849000+08:00","text":"因為我看你們目前的施作，這個區塊還是不足，需要去加強。","quality":0.708},{"speaker":"林署長元鵬","start":"2026-07-01T11:06:26.912000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:06:27.553000+08:00","text":"對，我們會來努力。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林署長元鵬","start":"2026-07-01T11:06:27.794000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:06:30.900000+08:00","text":"上次有承諾委員，我們會積極辦理，沒問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-01T11:06:31.501000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:06:31.862000+08:00","text":"好，加油！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林署長元鵬","start":"2026-07-01T11:06:32.362000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T11:06:34.362000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，應該的。","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T11:06:34.662000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T11:06:36.662000+08:00","text":"謝謝鄭天財委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T11:06:36.962000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T11:06:41.819143+08:00","text":"接下來請賴惠員、賴惠員，賴惠員委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T11:06:42.119143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T11:06:45.262000+08:00","text":"接下來請呂玉玲委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1053,"blocks":[["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（10時57分）主席還有我們各部會的官員，我們先請國發會的主委。"],["主席：我們請國發會葉主委。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：你不方便，坐著就好。","非常謝謝召委安排今天的議程，我們看一下零日攻擊這個案子，當然都是之前的案子了。這個案子在經濟委員會或是總質詢時，很多委員都提過。請問一下，以現在的檢討來看，你們對這個案子的檢討是怎麼樣？有檢討過嗎？"],["葉主任委員俊顯：這個案子好像還沒有提到管理委員會。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：沒有檢討？"],["葉主任委員俊顯：這個是文化部的案子，所以是文化部他們內部先審查……"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：不是，國發基金啦，這是用國發基金喔，國發基金是國發會主管的。"],["葉主任委員俊顯：是。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：所以不能因為……之前你們的答復就是這樣，這是錯的，真的要檢討，我們直接就從法律來看。產業創新條例寫得很清楚，為加速產業創新加值，促進經濟轉型及國家發展。零日攻擊它是一部電影，一部電影跟產業創新加值有什麼關係？跟促進經濟轉型及國家發展有什麼關係？這是國發會要去檢討的。雖然說那個是文化部在主導，但畢竟是國發基金，沒有錯吧？是用國發基金吧！"],["葉主任委員俊顯：是。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：沒有錯，好。我們看到產業創新條例第三十條，國發基金的用途寫得清清楚楚，沒有一款是符合的，就算是行政院專案核准的，其他經行政院專案核准的也必須符合產業創新條例第二十九條，都必須要符合啊！它沒有一個符合。"],["葉主任委員俊顯：有啦，委員，你看第四款裡面有一個「文化創意發展」。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：錯了！我就知道你要講這個，可見到現在為止都沒有真正地檢討！一部電影怎麼會是文化創意發展呢？它就是一部和過去的戰爭有關的電影啊！你可以用其他的，但是不要用國發基金。你可以用文化部的經費，文化部的經費有符合的，但就不是文化創意發展！"],["葉主任委員俊顯：再跟委員報告一下，文化部那個文化創意產業發展法裡面其實有寫國發基金也是需要去……"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：不是、不是，文化部那個文化創意產業發展法是另外的，那是針對它的經費，並不表示……"],["葉主任委員俊顯：它裡面有匡列說……"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：主委，如果到現在還這樣的話，這個國發基金就可以亂花了！那就全部花在原住民身上好了！原住民的創業很多，有嗎？沒有一筆啊！到目前都沒有一筆啊！"],["葉主任委員俊顯：但它那個是立法院通過的。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：你回去清查一下，不要跟我強辯。你回去清查一下原住民的創業、產業、創新。我們看產創條例第一條，第一項是「為促進產業創新，改善產業環境，提升產業競爭力……」，第二項是「……指農業、工業及服務業等各行業」，所以我們還是要回到第二十九條，看看國發基金的設立目的。你回去檢視一下，國發基金有沒有用在原住民的產業創新和經濟轉型，沒有啊！"],["葉主任委員俊顯：但我們……"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：所以不要跟我強辯啦！真的！已經有這麼多立委質疑了……"],["葉主任委員俊顯：假如原民會有提出需求的話，我們也會認真考慮。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：對於國發會，我常常舉一個例子，你們一定要借鏡：臺灣之所以有現在的經濟發展，台積電是不是一個很重要的因素？是不是？"],["葉主任委員俊顯：不只台積電，其他也都很重要。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，台積電你沒有否認。如果你否認的話就……台積電成立時，國家經濟多麼不如現在，而且那是以反攻大陸為主的年代，當時的經濟部長、當時的政務委員、當時的行政院院長、當時的總統能夠去投入，而現在有這麼多的經費，要有這樣的眼光，而不是把錢亂花，這個很重要。"],["葉主任委員俊顯：跟委員報告，我們真的很嚴格在審查那筆錢。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：你現在很嚴格，以前不嚴格啦！"],["葉主任委員俊顯：都很嚴格、都很嚴格。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我都不是講你現在的！好不好？","接下來請經濟部部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["龔部長明鑫：委員好。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：世豐電力的事情和國發會有關，也和經濟部有關，原住民都抗議了，不只諮商同意沒有過，環評也沒有過，就讓國發基金投入，對不對？這就是一個需要大力檢討的地方。","因為時間不多，我就回到馬太鞍溪堰塞湖的問題，馬太鞍溪堰塞湖潰壩已經快10個月了，花蓮縣鳳林鎮山興里山崎段農田受災的事情上次我有質詢過，當時水利署署長也同意要開始處理，現在進度怎麼樣？"],["龔部長明鑫：我請署長說明一下。"],["林署長元鵬：報告委員，這應該是屬於花蓮溪的部分，山興段嘛！"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：對，沒錯。"],["林署長元鵬：那邊我們會來整治。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我們來看地圖，這是萬里溪。這段時間經濟部水利署也很辛苦，堤防加固加高都在進行中。"],["林署長元鵬：對，2公里我們都已經完成了。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：這個堤防我上次有跟署長提過，剛剛說的山興里山崎段是花蓮溪，因為馬太鞍溪兩側堤防都加固加高了，未來的衝擊就在這裡，加上萬里溪，就是在這個點，對不對？"],["林署長元鵬：是，這個我們會來努力。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：花蓮溪和萬里溪交會，上面你都加固加高了，所以這個地方是未來最大的衝擊點。"],["林署長元鵬：沒有錯，我們會來努力。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好不好？"],["林署長元鵬：是，這應該的。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：這個部分是需要特別去加強的。"],["林署長元鵬：有，我們已經有盤點了，會積極辦理。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：因為我看你們目前的施作，這個區塊還是不足，需要去加強。"],["林署長元鵬：對，我們會來努力。上次有承諾委員，我們會積極辦理，沒問題。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，加油！"],["林署長元鵬：謝謝委員，應該的。"],["主席：謝謝鄭天財委員。","接下來請賴惠員、賴惠員，賴惠員委員不在。","接下來請呂玉玲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":364,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-19-19","speakers":["洪毓祥","邱議瑩","邱志偉","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","謝衣鳯","鄭正鈐","鍾佳濱","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","呂玉玲","許忠信","王鴻薇","陳清龍","傅崐萁","蔡易餘","賴瑞隆","張嘉郡","陳超明"],"page_start":249,"meetingDate":["2026-07-01"],"gazette_id":"1155701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155701_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及法務部首長就「經濟部、國家發展委員會補助案審\n查機制、投資案審議程序中之利益衝突迴避規範全面性檢討」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1155701_00012"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}