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他們內控 內部的應該申報 呈報的制度都有那為什麼在執行上出了這個偏差我想 所以剛剛有委員提到 他們的內部控制確實是失靈那這點的話 我想我們在督導整個制度的執行社會對我們很多的期待跟要求 我們也虛心接受"},{"start":133.633,"end":145.474,"text":"最重要是說發生這個事情以後我們怎麼去調整就剛剛委員提到就是說我們怎麼去針對這個事件我們怎麼樣來能夠避免這個事情再重複的發生這才是最關鍵的點"},{"start":147.165,"end":172.066,"text":"那所以剛剛提到就是說對於這些金融機構的負責人兼職我們現在是有明確的規定只是現在的規定是不是能夠符合像這樣一個需求那這個時候我們可以來檢討那所以剛剛也有報告過我們現在的負責人資格條件準則裡面確實有針對一個負責人該怎麼做兼職有明確的規定那再來他們在內部你兼職以後"},{"start":172.867,"end":198.119,"text":"要怎麼去通報避免這個立官人的交易或是利益衝突這部分呢最重要還是那個本人自己要做申報再來就是制度上要去勾擊我想這部分為什麼我也沒有做到這也是我們很關注的一點這也是我們未來會來努力希望透過不要只憑一個人的申報與否還要多重的勾擊來做到這件事情主委我個人是這樣子啦制度上我是建議你們考慮看看就是"},{"start":200.063,"end":225.106,"text":"對於這個特許行業允許兼職的範圍要限縮他有他是一個CEO他有重要到他這些這邊都要去兼這麼多嗎他本身是銀行的董事長要去兼一間上市公司的獨董這個很特殊啊我認為這樣的例子不會多但是當然還是要去檢查檢查看看因為"},{"start":226.82,"end":251.491,"text":"一間這麼大的金控的或是銀行的董事長就夠他忙了吧他這麼忙還能夠去擔任上市公司的讀董讀董任務也很重要讀董等於是現在的制度在替這間上市公司在把關做很多的把關工作那個資料如果要讀的話資料如果要研究的話也是很多的所以這個我是認為說"},{"start":253.152,"end":278.175,"text":"兼職的部分應該要有所限縮不能夠讓他們能夠這樣子的好像我只要書面上面那個文字規定那既然這樣的話那個要修改好不好我的主張我是認為要限縮我想說也一樣啦過去有很多人提到我們不要浪費任何一次危機啦這件事情的凸顯的問題我們剛好利用這個來檢視我們相關的過去的制度"},{"start":280.377,"end":304.027,"text":"第二個電腦AI現在很發達這些名人這些都是有名有姓然後都是社會上大家都知道是誰的人你要上電腦連接橫向聯繫他在做什麼他有什麼職務應該是很清楚的因為他兼的那些職務也都是要公告的他兼的那些職務又不是說我兼這個職務社會不知道"},{"start":305.552,"end":323.897,"text":"只要橫向的把它連在一起就一定會跑出來的所以剛剛跟委員講我們過去不能只單靠個人申報還有一年幾次的檢核我們未來要建立多重的查核機制來讓內控跟執行能夠更完備"},{"start":329.238,"end":353.833,"text":"那最近另外一個訊息就是說有一個好消息就是說這個ATM如果有遮掩臉部的因為現在有人臉辨識嘛口罩然後安全帽的都會警示他就不讓你繼續操作了你必須要拿下來他才讓你繼續操作這個據說對打詐由於對於車手去盜你這個錢有很大的嚇阻的作用"},{"start":354.733,"end":377.553,"text":"那這個剛剛當然講說有一些技術要提升但是我覺得技術在這件事情上是小事情所以應該要鼓勵無論是各大銀行這個ATM都應該要趕快來加裝這樣子的設備不是整台換掉它那個可能是ATM要加裝一個設備然後程式的設定這樣而已是的如果有這樣的狀況的話是不是趕快鼓勵能夠趕快來設因為我覺得"},{"start":382.369,"end":384.344,"text":"避免如何被詐騙喔 大家都"},{"start":385.481,"end":412.707,"text":"很痛恨這件事情所以大家都想盡各種辦法那既然這個辦法不錯有幫助那是不是應該要趕快去做是的這個我想剛才那個有委員提出這個這個確實是我們推動重點我剛才也跟委員報告過這是我們行政院自然匯報督導了一個重要的計畫我們會來按照這個方向來來促進來趕快來做這件事情好請回座請財政部陳次長跟"},{"start":413.467,"end":415.469,"text":"最近我們政府針對獨駕,有在嚴厲取締,又要訂很嚴格的辦法"},{"start":436.052,"end":448.565,"text":"但是這個那個毒品啊叫做衣托米子很多原料是從中國進來的他進來除了走私之外有些是夾藏在這個"},{"start":450.845,"end":466.695,"text":"海關要進口的貨品裡面那過去關路署對於檢驗這種毒品的機制因為其他的毒品 什麼大麻 什麼海洛因 鴉片你們以前都已經有很多的經驗 所以那個檢驗很快這個的檢驗聽說還沒有完整的準備嗎"},{"start":472.913,"end":493.642,"text":"是 跟委員報告 謝謝委員關心這個毒品的事件那自從伊托米子列為管制品之後其實我們在海關我們也有購買大概46部的所謂的一個拉曼的光譜儀這種機器來檢測我們只要發現它有毒品的一個成分在我們這種案子我們就移送司法機關來做"},{"start":495.023,"end":517.364,"text":"你們怎麼做查到毒品當然要依照依送司法機關這是一定的我的意思是說你們現在檢驗上有沒有困難因為我聽說我們氣毒犬也是要訓練啊是那氣毒犬沒有聞過這種東西他對這個沒有感覺的時候他聞不出來啊啊這一方面有沒有再加強整備呢我想這一個部分關務署這邊幫我回答一下來請教來是"},{"start":520.347,"end":524.549,"text":"是 報告委員齁陳如剛我們次長有報告了就是我們目前在四個關區 基北中高四個關區我們有配置了46部的拉曼光譜儀那我們的拉曼光譜儀它現在它是可以去辨識伊托米子因為這個拉曼光譜儀它的這個資料庫是可以隨時更新的所以我們目前裡頭我們只要海關"},{"start":545.118,"end":552.264,"text":"查獲有這個不明的粉末這些可疑的我們可以用拉曼光譜以來初步去辨識他是可以辨識易脫米子然後如果辨識裡頭有具有這個相關的這些成分就馬上已給這個司法警察機關報請檢察官偵辦氣毒犬現在有辦法聞到這種毒品嗎"},{"start":564.666,"end":568.99,"text":"報告委員我們的棄毒犬因為他的要訓練的時候他必須是要高純度的一個毒品來作為嗅源來訓練那目前高純度的這個一拖米子目前因為法院跟這個檢察官都沒有宣告沒收所以法務部沒有辦法去公告說可以讓我們去申請因為法律現在在趕快跟上而已"},{"start":589.409,"end":612.84,"text":"那我們現在已經跟這個法院跟還有這個檢察署我們這邊密切在聯繫希望說他們可以及早來公告讓我們可以去申請來領用 謝謝這個吸食要靠電子菸的那個吸食器對不對 其實電子菸是非法的那個吸食器抓緊一點 這第一個第二個 你們那個大宗包裹檢驗喔"},{"start":614.161,"end":638.137,"text":"要更認真一點這個東西很容易它的那個質量沒有很大嘛它很容易夾帶很容易夾長所以大家加油好不好因為我們現在這個實在是這個從中國進來的這個大宗包裹這麼多數量這麼的龐大我們希望海關能夠加強需要的設備我們認為我們立法院跟行政院應該都要支持好不好這邊跟委員報告"},{"start":639.418,"end":642.28,"text":"就是那個剛剛委員提到就是伊托米子用這個電子煙油作為載具那我們海關我們已經有完訓了兩組的這個氣煙犬那他可以去嗅聞電子煙油那我們目前也還在訓練另外兩組也很快就可以來進行這個毒品的一個查驅那海關就是會在這個邊境上面會積極的來查緝相關的這個伊托米子"},{"start":669.298,"end":670.442,"text":"好,謝偉,5263言措施,謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-07-01T11:36:08.773000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:36:10.494000+08:00","text":"主席，麻煩請金管會彭主委。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T11:36:11.415000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:36:16.499000+08:00","text":"彭主委，請。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T11:36:16.499000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T11:36:17.499000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-07-01T11:36:16.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:37:02.349000+08:00","text":"主委，今天質詢的委員大部分都提到了剛剛談的這個案子，我想這雖然是一個個案，但也有可能在制度上，我們要根據這個個案的發生來檢討，金融業，尤其是銀行、投信這些都是特許行業，照理講，做這個特許行業的CEO應該有這方面的知識，也有這方面的概念，就是不能去做有利益糾葛，然後搞不清楚的狀況，為什麼這個個案會去兼任一間上市公司的獨董？","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-07-01T11:37:03.990000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:37:09.254000+08:00","text":"除了他的投信董事之外，他又去兼了……簡單講，就是世芯─KY的獨董。","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-07-01T11:37:11.416000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:37:36.760000+08:00","text":"投信業就是在做證券投資，而被他兼任的這一間公司是這麼有名的IC設計公司，股價這麼高，幾乎所有投信都會去購買世芯─KY的股票作為他們投信的投資內容，為什麼會沒有概念到這麼離譜的狀況？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-07-01T11:37:36.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:37:44.748000+08:00","text":"就這個CEO本人或這間公司，怎麼會這麼沒有概念？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-07-01T11:37:45.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:37:46.389000+08:00","text":"主委，你的看法怎麼樣？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T11:37:47.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:37:57.939000+08:00","text":"其實制度都有，他們內控、內部應該申報、呈報的制度都有，為什麼在執行上出了這個偏差？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T11:37:59.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:38:15.458000+08:00","text":"剛剛有委員提到他們內部控制確實失靈，我們在督導整個制度的執行，社會對我們有很多的期待和要求，我們也虛心接受，最重要的是，發生這個事情以後，我們要怎麼去調整？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T11:38:15.599000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:38:24.474000+08:00","text":"就像委員提到的，怎麼針對這個事件檢討，避免事情再重複發生，這才是最關鍵的點。對。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T11:38:26.385000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:38:40.357000+08:00","text":"所以剛剛提到，對於金融機構負責人的兼職，我們是有明確規定，只是現在的規定是不是能夠符合這樣一個需求，這個時候我們可以來檢討。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T11:38:40.958000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:39:12.797000+08:00","text":"剛剛也有報告過，在我們現在的負責人資格條件準則裡面，確實有針對負責人該怎麼做兼職有明確規定；再來，兼職以後，他們內部要怎麼通報，以避免利關人的交易或利益衝突，這部分最重要還是那個本人自己要申報，再來就是制度上要勾稽，這部分為什麼會沒有做到，我想是我們必須關注的重點，也是我們未來要來努力的，希望不要只是憑一個人的申報與否，還要多重勾稽來做到這件事情。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-07-01T11:39:12.857000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:39:30.734000+08:00","text":"主委，在制度上，我個人有個建議，你們考慮看看，就是對於這個特許行業允許兼職的範圍要限縮，他是一個CEO，有重要到要去兼這麼多職嗎？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-07-01T11:39:30.734000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:40:24.123000+08:00","text":"他本身是銀行董事長，要去兼一間上市公司的獨董，這個很特殊，我認為這樣的例子不會多，但是當然還是要檢查看看，因為一間這麼大的金控或銀行董事長，應該就夠他忙的，他這麼忙，還能擔任上市公司的獨董，獨董任務也很重要，現在的制度，獨董等於是在替這間上市公司把關，要做很多把關工作，資料如果要讀、要研究的話，也是很多，所以我認為兼職的部分應該有所限縮，不能夠讓他們好像只要書面上的文字規定就好，所以那個部分要修改，好不好？","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-07-01T11:40:24.644000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:40:26.385000+08:00","text":"這是我的主張，我認為應該要限縮。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T11:40:26.385000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:40:37.155000+08:00","text":"我想也一樣，過去有很多人提到我們不要浪費任何一次危機，這件事情凸顯的問題，我們剛好可以利用這個事件來檢視我們過去的相關制度，然後……","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-07-01T11:40:39.377000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:41:08.813000+08:00","text":"第二個，電腦AI現在很發達，這些名人都是有名有姓，社會上也都知道他是誰，電腦橫向聯繫查他在做什麼、有什麼職務，應該都很清楚，因為他兼的那些職務也都要公告，又不是說兼這個職社會不知道，所以只要橫向把它連在一起，就一定會跑出來嘛！","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T11:41:09.093000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:41:22.897000+08:00","text":"對，所以我剛剛也跟委員講，我們不能只單靠個人申報，還有一年幾次的所謂檢核，未來我們要建立多重查核機制，讓內控跟執行能夠更完備。","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-07-01T11:41:28.598000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:42:16.493000+08:00","text":"另外，最近有一個訊息，也是一個好消息，就是在ATM操作，因為現在有人臉辨識，如果有遮掩臉部，如戴口罩、安全帽的都會警示，然後就不讓你繼續操作，必須拿下來才能繼續操作，據說這個對打詐，尤其對車手盜領錢有很大的嚇阻作用，剛剛講到有一些技術要提升，我覺得技術上這件事情是小事情，應該要鼓勵各大銀行的ATM都應該趕快加裝這樣的設備，不是整臺ATM換掉，可能只是加裝個設備或程式設定而已，如果有這樣的狀況，是不是趕快鼓勵大家趕快來設？","quality":0.813},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-07-01T11:42:16.493000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:42:31.683000+08:00","text":"因為現在大家都很痛恨詐騙這件事，所以想盡各種辦法避免被詐騙，既然這個辦法不錯、有幫助，是不是應該趕快去做？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T11:42:31.963000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:42:47.746000+08:00","text":"是的，剛剛也有委員提出這個問題，確實這是我們推動的重點，剛剛也跟委員報告過，這是行政院治安會報督導的一個重要計畫，我們會按照這個方向來促進，趕快來做這件事情。","quality":0.847},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-07-01T11:42:48.146000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:42:49.106000+08:00","text":"好，請回座。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-07-01T11:42:50.507000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:42:51.687000+08:00","text":"請財政部陳次長和關務署蘇副署長。","quality":0.467},{"speaker":"陳次長勇勝","start":"2026-07-01T11:42:51.687000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T11:42:52.687000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-07-01T11:42:52.687000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T11:42:53.687000+08:00","text":"次長、副署長好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-07-01T11:42:52.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:43:45.695000+08:00","text":"最近政府針對毒駕嚴厲取締，也訂定嚴格辦法，那個毒品叫做依托咪酯，它的原料很多是從中國進來的，除了走私之外，有些是夾藏在海關進口貨品裡面，過去關務署對於檢驗毒品的機制，像其他毒品，如大麻、海洛因、鴉片等，因為以前都已經有很多經驗，所以檢驗很快，但這個毒品的檢驗，聽說還沒有完整的整備，是嗎？","quality":0.836},{"speaker":"陳次長勇勝","start":"2026-07-01T11:43:51.913000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:44:12.622000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝委員關心這個毒品事件，自從依托咪酯列為管制品後，我們在海關也購置了46部所謂的拉曼光譜儀來進行檢測，只要發現有毒品成分在，這種案子我們就移送司法機關偵辦。","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-07-01T11:44:14.023000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:44:21.170000+08:00","text":"你們怎麼做……查到毒品當然要移送司法機關，這是一定的，我的意思是，現在在檢驗上有沒有困難？","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-07-01T11:44:21.170000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:44:33.321000+08:00","text":"因為我聽說緝毒犬也要訓練，緝毒犬沒有聞過這種東西，對這個東西沒有感覺，就聞不出來，這一方面有沒有在加強整備呢？","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"陳次長勇勝","start":"2026-07-01T11:44:34.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:44:34.882000+08:00","text":"我想這個部分……","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-07-01T11:44:35.123000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:44:35.903000+08:00","text":"是不是關務署可以幫忙回答？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"陳次長勇勝","start":"2026-07-01T11:44:35.903000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T11:44:39.607000+08:00","text":"好，請關務署說明。","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"蘇副署長淑貞","start":"2026-07-01T11:44:39.607000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:45:10.924000+08:00","text":"報告委員，誠如剛剛次長報告的，目前在基、北、中、高四個關區，我們配置了46部的拉曼光譜儀，拉曼光譜儀可以辨識依托咪酯，因為拉曼光譜儀的資料庫可以隨時更新，所以目前只要海關查獲有不明粉末等可疑物品，我們就用拉曼光譜儀初步辨識，它是可以辨識出依托咪酯，如果辨識出裡頭具有相關成分，就馬上移給司法警察機關報請檢察官偵辦。","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-07-01T11:45:10.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:45:11.264000+08:00","text":"我問你一個小問題，緝毒犬現在有辦法聞這種毒品嗎？","quality":0.591},{"speaker":"蘇副署長淑貞","start":"2026-07-01T11:45:24.227000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:45:27.630000+08:00","text":"因為我們的緝毒犬在訓練的時候必須要用高純度毒品作為嗅源，目前高純度的依托咪酯因為法院跟檢察官都沒有宣告沒收，所以法務部沒有辦法公告可以讓我們去申請……","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-07-01T11:45:27.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:45:27.970000+08:00","text":"因為那個法令現在才趕快要跟上而已。","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"蘇副署長淑貞","start":"2026-07-01T11:45:48.569000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:46:00.855000+08:00","text":"是，我們現在已經跟法院還有檢察署密切聯繫，希望他們可以及早公告，讓我們可以申請領用，謝謝。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-07-01T11:46:00.855000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:46:05.537000+08:00","text":"這個吸食要靠電子煙的吸食器，對不對？是。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-07-01T11:46:05.537000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:46:08.758000+08:00","text":"其實電子煙是非法的，所以那個吸食器要抓緊一點，這是第一點。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-07-01T11:46:09.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:46:22.647000+08:00","text":"第二點，針對大宗包裹的檢驗，你們要更認真一點，因為這個東西質量沒有很大，很容易夾帶、夾藏，所以大家加油，好不好？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-07-01T11:46:23.448000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:46:36.717000+08:00","text":"現在從中國進來的大宗包裹這麼多，數量這麼龐大，希望海關能夠加強查緝，需要的設備我們立法院跟行政院應該都會支持，好不好？是、是。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"蘇副署長淑貞","start":"2026-07-01T11:46:36.897000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:46:41.100000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，剛剛委員提到依托咪酯是以電子煙油作為載具，這部分我們海關已經完訓了兩組緝菸犬，牠可以嗅聞電子煙油，目前也還在訓練另外兩組，應該很快就可以進行毒品查緝，海關會在邊境上積極查緝相關依托咪酯等毒品。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"吳委員秉叡","start":"2026-07-01T11:47:08.298000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T11:47:08.619000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝你。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"陳次長勇勝","start":"2026-07-01T11:47:09.119000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T11:47:14.261857+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員，我們會落實三嚴措施，謝謝。加油！","quality":0.222},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T11:47:14.561857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T11:47:18.847571+08:00","text":"兩位官員請回，吳秉叡委員質詢結束。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T11:47:19.147571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T11:47:21.719000+08:00","text":"下一位請李坤城委員。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1198,"blocks":[["吳委員秉叡：（11時36分）主席，麻煩請金管會彭主委。"],["主席：彭主委，請。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員好。"],["吳委員秉叡：主委，今天質詢的委員大部分都提到了剛剛談的這個案子，我想這雖然是一個個案，但也有可能在制度上，我們要根據這個個案的發生來檢討，金融業，尤其是銀行、投信這些都是特許行業，照理講，做這個特許行業的CEO應該有這方面的知識，也有這方面的概念，就是不能去做有利益糾葛，然後搞不清楚的狀況，為什麼這個個案會去兼任一間上市公司的獨董？除了他的投信董事之外，他又去兼了……簡單講，就是世芯─KY的獨董。投信業就是在做證券投資，而被他兼任的這一間公司是這麼有名的IC設計公司，股價這麼高，幾乎所有投信都會去購買世芯─KY的股票作為他們投信的投資內容，為什麼會沒有概念到這麼離譜的狀況？就這個CEO本人或這間公司，怎麼會這麼沒有概念？主委，你的看法怎麼樣？"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實制度都有，他們內控、內部應該申報、呈報的制度都有，為什麼在執行上出了這個偏差？剛剛有委員提到他們內部控制確實失靈，我們在督導整個制度的執行，社會對我們有很多的期待和要求，我們也虛心接受，最重要的是，發生這個事情以後，我們要怎麼去調整？就像委員提到的，怎麼針對這個事件檢討，避免事情再重複發生，這才是最關鍵的點。"],["吳委員秉叡：對。"],["彭主任委員金隆：所以剛剛提到，對於金融機構負責人的兼職，我們是有明確規定，只是現在的規定是不是能夠符合這樣一個需求，這個時候我們可以來檢討。剛剛也有報告過，在我們現在的負責人資格條件準則裡面，確實有針對負責人該怎麼做兼職有明確規定；再來，兼職以後，他們內部要怎麼通報，以避免利關人的交易或利益衝突，這部分最重要還是那個本人自己要申報，再來就是制度上要勾稽，這部分為什麼會沒有做到，我想是我們必須關注的重點，也是我們未來要來努力的，希望不要只是憑一個人的申報與否，還要多重勾稽來做到這件事情。"],["吳委員秉叡：主委，在制度上，我個人有個建議，你們考慮看看，就是對於這個特許行業允許兼職的範圍要限縮，他是一個CEO，有重要到要去兼這麼多職嗎？他本身是銀行董事長，要去兼一間上市公司的獨董，這個很特殊，我認為這樣的例子不會多，但是當然還是要檢查看看，因為一間這麼大的金控或銀行董事長，應該就夠他忙的，他這麼忙，還能擔任上市公司的獨董，獨董任務也很重要，現在的制度，獨董等於是在替這間上市公司把關，要做很多把關工作，資料如果要讀、要研究的話，也是很多，所以我認為兼職的部分應該有所限縮，不能夠讓他們好像只要書面上的文字規定就好，所以那個部分要修改，好不好？這是我的主張，我認為應該要限縮。"],["彭主任委員金隆：我想也一樣，過去有很多人提到我們不要浪費任何一次危機，這件事情凸顯的問題，我們剛好可以利用這個事件來檢視我們過去的相關制度，然後……"],["吳委員秉叡：第二個，電腦AI現在很發達，這些名人都是有名有姓，社會上也都知道他是誰，電腦橫向聯繫查他在做什麼、有什麼職務，應該都很清楚，因為他兼的那些職務也都要公告，又不是說兼這個職社會不知道，所以只要橫向把它連在一起，就一定會跑出來嘛！"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，所以我剛剛也跟委員講，我們不能只單靠個人申報，還有一年幾次的所謂檢核，未來我們要建立多重查核機制，讓內控跟執行能夠更完備。"],["吳委員秉叡：另外，最近有一個訊息，也是一個好消息，就是在ATM操作，因為現在有人臉辨識，如果有遮掩臉部，如戴口罩、安全帽的都會警示，然後就不讓你繼續操作，必須拿下來才能繼續操作，據說這個對打詐，尤其對車手盜領錢有很大的嚇阻作用，剛剛講到有一些技術要提升，我覺得技術上這件事情是小事情，應該要鼓勵各大銀行的ATM都應該趕快加裝這樣的設備，不是整臺ATM換掉，可能只是加裝個設備或程式設定而已，如果有這樣的狀況，是不是趕快鼓勵大家趕快來設？因為現在大家都很痛恨詐騙這件事，所以想盡各種辦法避免被詐騙，既然這個辦法不錯、有幫助，是不是應該趕快去做？"],["彭主任委員金隆：是的，剛剛也有委員提出這個問題，確實這是我們推動的重點，剛剛也跟委員報告過，這是行政院治安會報督導的一個重要計畫，我們會按照這個方向來促進，趕快來做這件事情。"],["吳委員秉叡：好，請回座。請財政部陳次長和關務署蘇副署長。"],["陳次長勇勝：委員好。"],["吳委員秉叡：次長、副署長好。最近政府針對毒駕嚴厲取締，也訂定嚴格辦法，那個毒品叫做依托咪酯，它的原料很多是從中國進來的，除了走私之外，有些是夾藏在海關進口貨品裡面，過去關務署對於檢驗毒品的機制，像其他毒品，如大麻、海洛因、鴉片等，因為以前都已經有很多經驗，所以檢驗很快，但這個毒品的檢驗，聽說還沒有完整的整備，是嗎？"],["陳次長勇勝：是，謝謝委員關心這個毒品事件，自從依托咪酯列為管制品後，我們在海關也購置了46部所謂的拉曼光譜儀來進行檢測，只要發現有毒品成分在，這種案子我們就移送司法機關偵辦。"],["吳委員秉叡：你們怎麼做……查到毒品當然要移送司法機關，這是一定的，我的意思是，現在在檢驗上有沒有困難？因為我聽說緝毒犬也要訓練，緝毒犬沒有聞過這種東西，對這個東西沒有感覺，就聞不出來，這一方面有沒有在加強整備呢？"],["陳次長勇勝：我想這個部分……"],["吳委員秉叡：是不是關務署可以幫忙回答？"],["陳次長勇勝：好，請關務署說明。"],["蘇副署長淑貞：報告委員，誠如剛剛次長報告的，目前在基、北、中、高四個關區，我們配置了46部的拉曼光譜儀，拉曼光譜儀可以辨識依托咪酯，因為拉曼光譜儀的資料庫可以隨時更新，所以目前只要海關查獲有不明粉末等可疑物品，我們就用拉曼光譜儀初步辨識，它是可以辨識出依托咪酯，如果辨識出裡頭具有相關成分，就馬上移給司法警察機關報請檢察官偵辦。"],["吳委員秉叡：我問你一個小問題，緝毒犬現在有辦法聞這種毒品嗎？"],["蘇副署長淑貞：因為我們的緝毒犬在訓練的時候必須要用高純度毒品作為嗅源，目前高純度的依托咪酯因為法院跟檢察官都沒有宣告沒收，所以法務部沒有辦法公告可以讓我們去申請……"],["吳委員秉叡：因為那個法令現在才趕快要跟上而已。"],["蘇副署長淑貞：是，我們現在已經跟法院還有檢察署密切聯繫，希望他們可以及早公告，讓我們可以申請領用，謝謝。"],["吳委員秉叡：這個吸食要靠電子煙的吸食器，對不對？"],["蘇副署長淑貞：是。"],["吳委員秉叡：其實電子煙是非法的，所以那個吸食器要抓緊一點，這是第一點。第二點，針對大宗包裹的檢驗，你們要更認真一點，因為這個東西質量沒有很大，很容易夾帶、夾藏，所以大家加油，好不好？現在從中國進來的大宗包裹這麼多，數量這麼龐大，希望海關能夠加強查緝，需要的設備我們立法院跟行政院應該都會支持，好不好？"],["蘇副署長淑貞：是、是。跟委員報告，剛剛委員提到依托咪酯是以電子煙油作為載具，這部分我們海關已經完訓了兩組緝菸犬，牠可以嗅聞電子煙油，目前也還在訓練另外兩組，應該很快就可以進行毒品查緝，海關會在邊境上積極查緝相關依托咪酯等毒品。"],["吳委員秉叡：好，謝謝你。"],["陳次長勇勝：好，謝謝委員，我們會落實三嚴措施，謝謝。"],["吳委員秉叡：加油！"],["主席：兩位官員請回，吳秉叡委員質詢結束。","下一位請李坤城委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":556,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-20-20","speakers":["吳秉叡","林德福","賴士葆","郭國文","林岱樺","劉書彬","賴惠員","李彥秀","顏寬恒","羅明才","陳玉珍","王世堅","李坤城","林楚茵","許忠信","楊瓊瓔","林思銘"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2026-07-01"],"gazette_id":"1155602","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155602_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、彙總整理提出「中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案審查總報告（公務預算部分）草案」提\n報院會案；二、彙總整理提出「中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業及非營業\n部分審查總報告草案」提報院會案；三、審查本院委員吳秉叡等20人擬具「會計師法部分條文修\n正草案」案；四、審查本院委員吳秉叡等21人、委員李彥秀等18人分別擬具「證券交易稅條例第\n二條之一條文修正草案」等2案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1155602_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}