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art":182.657,"end":192.819,"text":"二十二就是不給不是你今天的答案就是不給那是不能給那牽扯到第二件事不給好牽扯到各自不給今天就是答案我不跟你扯了牽扯到各自不給我們不能給這個是讓同仁對啦一個投資方案就叫做情義啦"},{"start":203.382,"end":213.851,"text":"所以就是不給好來 我繼續來問我不曉得郭方威在在擔心什麼不知道你在擔心什麼暗示住民主啊那是蘇喬存啊擔任董事兼營運廠的公司我要資料的這家公司那蘇喬存是誰我想聽過媒體啊"},{"start":233.206,"end":257.99,"text":"大家都知道的 蘇曹存就是蘇貞昌院長的女兒他的姊姊就是蘇曹惠委員然後2022年蘇貞昌是擔任我們的行政院長負責管轄國發基金蘇曹惠是立法委員負責監督我們的國發基金就這麼剛剛好 礦石智能公司他就"},{"start":261.411,"end":285.837,"text":"拿到了我們國發基金一千九百九十九萬九千元的投資連年都不用年了直接國發基金就給他投資了完全不是以利益迴避這真的是國庫康通書庫國家的就是輸家的"},{"start":286.977,"end":292.425,"text":"所以我在這裡我針對我們國防基金國防費自己也都要說你們沒有針對個人家族或背景對象提供所謂的差別戰略"},{"start":304.881,"end":309.285,"text":"但是我們按照國外基金川北電子投資作業要點初次的投資不等於超過兩千萬那跨市智能公司就這麼剛好"},{"start":321.215,"end":332.757,"text":"我們的投資啊 審議委員會啊剛剛主委有講我們的外部委員真的就很厲害就剛好給他投資了1999萬9千元所以我在這裡我要問的我們國防衛國外基金我們假如單就一個投資的效益來講請問你們為什麼"},{"start":349.082,"end":369.947,"text":"所以投資只有一個唯一收入來源這個唯一收入來源我這邊有講就是為鼓勵的一個平臺何況這個平臺在我們投資之前它就有收入詐騙那我就請問我們國外基金國防會"},{"start":371.047,"end":374.709,"text":"我們的投資評估選議會會怎麼選的就是這麼厲害剛好投資了我跟委員報告我們今天討論機制我們討論機制不是討論個案我覺得個案不是以在這邊做討論"},{"start":386.877,"end":390.481,"text":"我絕對從個案看你們的通案從個案看你們的通案不是很合適在這邊討論這個個案已經公開了啊這裡媒體啊"},{"start":401.974,"end":405.396,"text":"媒體啊公開啊問你們個案你們有發布新聞稿做說明啊所以這是一個公開的訊息啊委員就公開的訊息在委員會提出知情為什麼主委你還是準備所謂個案從個案看你們的同案"},{"start":423.746,"end":436.615,"text":"委員我這邊跟你分享一下就是說這一個個案已經到監察院了所以我想我們就是尊重監察院尊重監察院我今天承認你嘛委員的承認我要來承認你喔好啊這個也是機制啊我今天跟你談論就是從個案看到機制出了問題啦就是機制有問題啊你看蘇曉慧"},{"start":450.445,"end":470.576,"text":"他跟礦石之南的董事兼營運長按照公職人員你的衝突未必吧他應該要結論他跟蘇貞昌院長跟蘇巧慧委員的關係嘛那請問礦石之南在申請我們的投資之前他有"},{"start":471.836,"end":497.294,"text":"這個有意義啦來揭露這樣的資訊嗎國發基金對於所有的投資案所秉持的方式都一樣依法行政牽扯到所謂的各支法第十四條裡面投資這個這個他要申請投資依照立法他要揭露他要揭露這個叫做各支案本來規定要指揭露"},{"start":501.757,"end":513.847,"text":"本來就整天要揭露 你現在一直用個資法你可以回去看一下個資法第14條這個是立中法 國會一定要揭露的我跟妳講 我們的一個 立議總統迴避法用揭露的一個部分你不要跟我講個資法再來我們來看"},{"start":524.915,"end":528.839,"text":"我剛剛有聽我們的一個質詢然後國會主委剛剛好像有跟我們會員也提到我們公職人員的利衝法利益衝突會逼只有在交易或是補助"},{"start":548.497,"end":561.231,"text":"這一個範圍那你剛剛好像打說投資啊不在立法的一個規範範圍是不是確定你剛剛的文字委員的那個簡報上面就是看不到投資兩個字啊"},{"start":563.033,"end":568.457,"text":"你看不到投資兩個字我現在就拿你的專案報告啊我這個報告是你寫的喔你寫的啊受你申請投資案建議受你申請投資案建議公職人員利益衝突的地方不一定代理對呀投資兩個字有嘛沒有沒有沒有沒有你的報告還有你的新聞卡"},{"start":593.073,"end":600.235,"text":"依法皆容我們要依啊 立重法的規定啊修理申請推遲案要依立重法的規定辦理你等下報告你等下報告你自己跟你的報告自己去解釋那我在這裡就跟主委講 來"},{"start":614.938,"end":623.962,"text":"交易、補助都算,投資就不算,投資就不算,那是不是我們在立籌碼?整個都要修法了,要把投資加進去啊,這符合我們一般的概念嗎?我給你補助,要立籌碼,我給你交易,我要立籌碼,結果我給你投資,用人民、納稅人的錢給你"},{"start":638.909,"end":654.723,"text":"投資不用免幣 不用利用嘛這就是我們國防會諸位自己親口在立法院的執行就沒打了這個部分我們形成一致我們國防院立法行政我們立法行政要在這裡 我們民政署在這裡嘛我們法部要派人嘛 法部"},{"start":665.359,"end":677.352,"text":"你們就是立中門的主管機關讓我在這裡問你投資啊投資啊是不是我們公職人員利益中途的立法這裡適用安危大家適用"},{"start":682.162,"end":688.488,"text":"國家的資金基金投資給個人或投資給民間要不要立衝法的一個過關範圍確實投資這兩個字沒有在立衝法第14條裡面的文字上面顯示出來"},{"start":700.936,"end":712.902,"text":"所以文字沒有,那你就為這個機關怎麼解釋?那如果要解釋的話,那我們必須有個案的狀況...個案就在這裡啊!官方主委一起講,所以我談的就是個案啊!那這個個案咧?因為如果個案的話,這個案子法務部...總值一千九百九十九萬九千元!"},{"start":724.569,"end":751.811,"text":"對 這個案子不是法務部的主管機關啊不是法務部的主管機關我現在問你是一充打勒有沒有規範投資 你說文字沒有嗎那就整個陽光 剛剛我們許仲勳為人了陽光是最好的防護劑那從此要不要算 英明法務部的觀點你也有話要回答嗎可能我們要逼到文藝上面來解釋啦"},{"start":753.137,"end":777.287,"text":"所以我們今天就要上廢文解誌就一定要有投資的資源就法務部的觀點對不對好法務部的偉大我知道那我們一定會提修法我一定會提修法我們台灣中港港版一定會提修法我就把投資加進去讓你有文字可以看"},{"start":780.35,"end":783.153,"text":"好 請回座謝謝委員請回座我想我們在當中執行到現在我們大家也都看得到了"},{"start":793.158,"end":810.97,"text":"國防基金用剛好第一攤的一個限制兩千萬以下的一千九百九十九萬九千元來投資一家只有唯一收入來源的一個公司何況這家公司還收入詐騙那卓院長他說投資新創協助投資台灣的國家未來"},{"start":823.16,"end":838.314,"text":"我們看到國安基金、國安會也幫這個案子在做我們的新聞發布新聞的一個說明那我想這到底是陳武卓院長所講的投資國家的未來還是投資"},{"start":843.659,"end":868.378,"text":"有關啊 理由有 輸家的有未來我想經過這樣的一個執行我們全台灣的人民心中應該有一把尺那再來我想說剛剛談的是國發基金有一個部分那經濟部經濟部也有我請經濟部部長好不好主席我請經濟部部長請經濟部工部長"},{"start":875.333,"end":876.253,"text":"我想我們當然想要用國大基金來補助蘇嘉那其實經濟部也有經濟部在2024年到2025年間蘇嘉純他擔任威魯克基旗下這個阿卡索瓦特這個執行長那時候我們看到"},{"start":905.939,"end":910.202,"text":"蘇曉慧還是立委,她負責監督我們的經濟部結果我們蘇曉淳的這家微乳科技還是拿到了我們經濟部的補助分別是中信署補助他的160人"},{"start":925.109,"end":926.43,"text":"4萬6千元跟商務發足的120萬那這樣的一個補助我們也看到我們經濟部我們有一直在解釋說蘇小琼跟威如科技沒有關係但威如科技的結案報告我在簡報上有講"},{"start":949.873,"end":951.955,"text":"他自己說,為了過去啊,就是過去營運啊,這個一個所謂的一個營運者,那蘇小純喔,自己本人喔,那接受我們自己經濟部喔,商發署的訪談喔,自己也說啊,他是"},{"start":971.33,"end":974.733,"text":"這個溫柔科技是作為阿卡舒瓦的一個營業者那在這樣的一個過程我們在拿補助的時候都說兩者的關係然後現在我們在質疑"},{"start":991.665,"end":998.17,"text":"我們就來跳脫說兩者之間的沒有關係那我在這邊我也來請教這個經濟部溫暖科技"},{"start":1005.973,"end":1021.764,"text":"威武科技在申請上面的計畫我剛剛講了他兩個計畫的時候他有沒有提供這個公司人員我們這個跟關係的一個身份介入表"},{"start":1022.344,"end":1034.316,"text":"因為報告委員蘇曉筍並不是威如科技的負責人 也不是董事 也不是獨立監察人 也不是經理人 他什麼都不是這一個部分 我們的結構表裡面 剛剛部長有講的嘛 負責人"},{"start":1044.466,"end":1055.929,"text":"對 董事 主席董事 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 監察人 �"},{"start":1073.036,"end":1081.803,"text":"我們規範的對價是微乳公司你規範微乳嘛立法法的規定就是這樣就跟國會主委講的一樣那我在這邊我還是請教我們的法務部法務部請你再一次的回答"},{"start":1097.512,"end":1110.896,"text":"剛剛講你從要揭露這個一個部分我們不想講揭露的範圍就是公司的負責人、董事、主力董事監察人、經理人那我在這邊請教執行長會不會也是要規範的對象你們看嘛"},{"start":1116.761,"end":1137.394,"text":"是兩個獨立的主體,我們規範...我今天不講主體,純粹就是力求碼的揭露要點,如果今天不是務責人,不是總事,不是監察人,不是經理人,他就是執行長這個時候,是不是我們的力求碼揭露的對象,要揭露的對象,我們規範,有理由"},{"start":1141.68,"end":1147.091,"text":"所以以後就不用執行長就好了我今天不是跟你講微乳公司嗎我現在在跟你講"},{"start":1150.95,"end":1178.673,"text":"那個揭露的一個犯規就像我犯規嘛這是就法的觀念來論點啊我今天不跟你講公安跟你講法是跟委員報告如果是董事監察人跟經理人或相類似的職務的話他是應該揭露相類似的職務嘛那執行長應該就是相類似的職務吧如果他的執行長是他那個公司是有來申請補助的那可能就是要揭露"},{"start":1179.153,"end":1185.38,"text":"那可能再接一段,好,好,否不正的答案,我接受,好,請回座"},{"start":1187.062,"end":1208.555,"text":"我今天在談的不是你要講談的是兩個獨立個體但是這兩個獨立個體明明在我們剛剛的說明當中它就是有關係的而且有緊密的關係兩個合作其實是一體的那今天我們至少點出我們的揭露應該有相關的一個這個組成這樣的一個人"},{"start":1216.159,"end":1227.867,"text":"這應該要做結論來 下一個同樣的是我們經濟部我還是回到所知因為我們所知真的商業還沒到這裡同樣都是跟我們經濟部一樣的資料來 部長你看我們商業發展署給我的資料是完整的"},{"start":1245.666,"end":1266.942,"text":"完整的中小企業中小級新創企業署他給我的資料全部塗黑同樣的經濟部同樣問的問題都是微乳科技他申請了這個演化計畫或申請專心的計畫"},{"start":1269.363,"end":1275.39,"text":"同樣的手持 兩個單位來的完全不一樣 剖地裡面的喇叩怎麼會這樣啊"},{"start":1281.189,"end":1306.08,"text":"這個應該是中小中小及新中介所要說明啊為什麼全部土的啊你給我的說是全部土的跟委員報告我們給委員的資料除了一些可能他的學經歷然後還有他過去的經歷等等事項所以重點都是機密全部都是土的所以都沒有去識別的提供了"},{"start":1307.04,"end":1329.29,"text":"所以你就塗黑,那從這個表格你就看到了我在這邊我肯定我們的三大署該提供的資料,真的就完全提供我給你肯定,你們給你肯定,我要跟部長講這個是要肯定,常常在檢討我們的中小期、新創期業數"},{"start":1331.411,"end":1359.13,"text":"同樣的結案報告同樣的結案報告竟然一個部裡面兩個數一個全部揭露公開一個全部除黑好這個就是要讓我們所有的國人來看經濟部就這樣的一個隱瞞隱瞞執行就是這樣的一個作為好我最後還是要問"},{"start":1360.646,"end":1389.413,"text":"我辦公室有所知的資料還要等多久維族科技的部分委員我先跟您說明一下您要的這些計畫書其中期末報告我們都給了但是其中期末報告的附件給的附件啊 重要的資料都沒給啊要跟委員講就是說這些附件可能涉及到一些研發一些機密所以我們可能 附件通通機密今天我自始自終有聽到科技法機密所以今天不用給"},{"start":1391.233,"end":1403.798,"text":"不是 委員 我們會再審視一下比較沒有適合的部分所以可以給的就給 不可以給的我通通塗黑 就是這樣嘛好 就算你要塗黑 哪有說要給我們現在那個資料我已經講 就算你要全部塗黑 哪有說要給"},{"start":1415.553,"end":1435.05,"text":"這個你塗黑吧我繼續讓全國人民知道你們給的資料都是塗黑好我OK那時候可以再兩個禮拜好不好還要兩個禮拜全部塗黑全部塗黑還要兩個禮拜那兩個禮拜就是要完整的資料給我不塗黑沒有涉及機密我們當然一定都會給"},{"start":1438.98,"end":1445.646,"text":"我們不涉及營業機密我們要的是他的一個補助案還有他的一個結案報告就這樣而已這個叫做營業機密都跟你要錢了你都補助給他了"},{"start":1460.36,"end":1477.836,"text":"現在用他的治安報告,有確診是一頁機密,一共三個人民聽下去我們審查本來就是公開、公平啊我沒有說你們不公開啊對啊,所以我們就是依法行政啊好,一個禮拜給,好不好盡快啦,我們盡快還是盡快,保證啊,換給一個人所知啊"},{"start":1489.582,"end":1489.602,"text":"好,謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}