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請我們金管會彭主委請金管會彭主委"},{"start":12.563,"end":40.224,"text":"主委早 主委媒體報導說金管會預計在7月17日召開全體銀行獨立董事的洽談來洽談兼任利益迴避的觀念銀行局的副局長回應表示說這會議很早之前就已經規劃並非是因為國泰的案子才特別召開我想我聽副局長這樣的一個說法感覺金管會都有一直注意這個問題"},{"start":41.772,"end":54.253,"text":"那請問這樣的會議,金管會過去有舉辦過嗎?跟委員報告好,就實際上我們第一個先金控先行那個會議是我親自主持,我知道就等於說我們大概應該在四月嗎?"},{"start":55.259,"end":79.869,"text":"三月就是我們就邀集了所有金控的獨董來三月就有舉辦過一次就是我們前面我們第一個就按照我們的規定就是先請獨董先請金控的獨董下一階段我們會邀請銀行的獨董接下來再看那個情況我們會擴及到其他這個確實是這樣因為我們也希望說是過去都一直有在舉行這樣的會議還是說只有今年才開始"},{"start":80.569,"end":95.48,"text":"其實跟委員報告在過去金管會在很多年以來就有些事項都已經請獨董在協查所以不是例行性的一個會議發覺有什麼事情的時候才特別去邀請他們來舉辦這個會議"},{"start":97.621,"end":117.05,"text":"這次的會議應該是我們額外針對 針對獨董嘛銀行的獨董額外針對的嘛對 但是就是說我們希望獨董扮演更積極更公正更獨立的角色這件事情在過去我們並沒有把它制度化這次的話我們就期待怎麼提升整個公司治理對主委其實我想說的是說"},{"start":118.03,"end":132.859,"text":"既然副局長說這個會議很早就在規劃了你看一場金管先從這個金控先做那是否表示說金管會都已經察覺有一些異狀不管是金控或者是銀行"},{"start":134.48,"end":158.394,"text":"那也就是說不只不光是這次我們被爆的國泰世華銀行董事長那個郭董事長的兼職的案子軍管會是不是也有發現其他的案子也有類似的一個情況沒有 就跟文報告其實其實過去我們一直比如說幾年前大家都很在意的像我們的一些比如說一些大股東"},{"start":161.175,"end":171.758,"text":"處理公司的事情我們就曾經請過獨董來做一些協查等於說過去就已經有了目前我們除了國內監控這個案子以外還有沒有其他案子目前我們還沒有利用獨董去發函請按照我們上次的作業我們也希望沒有"},{"start":188.061,"end":204.513,"text":"另外台灣人受暴內鬼案內部的陽性女員工利用救收費系統的漏洞四年間共A走了保護1658萬還涉嫌侵占公司用於客訴補償的7-11旅券944張這些旅券的侵占儘管會是在23號才從媒體的報導才得知"},{"start":214.062,"end":228.293,"text":"而國泰世化銀行董事長的兼職案呢造成旗下發行的八檔基金淨值重算以及權委賬戶和共同基金賠償投資人的損失我想請問主委這個損失大概是多少"},{"start":229.593,"end":256.349,"text":"這個齁 因為他們有對外揭露的部分呢就是剛剛委員提到那個數字啊是 六億對 就是有兩個權委跟投信基金兩部分所以損失大概六億嘛 相近九億多十億是 九億到十億喔兩個部分 九億到十億我想這個 主委喔這個同樣不是金管會主動調查而發現而是國泰金控的股東發出聲明才知道"},{"start":258.021,"end":279.049,"text":"所以金管會啊這個是剛剛那個金管會主動揭露在網站他主動揭露因為他必須要揭露所以我們是會讓人感覺說金管會是不是對金檢這個部分是後知後覺啊也跟委員報告剛剛很多委員關心過這個問題因為他是一個重大偶發通報"},{"start":280.369,"end":309.369,"text":"這是他主動來通報通常我們檢查就是說我們都不知道我們要靠檢查才知道這件事情我們已經知道這件事情但是他的全貌我不知道我一定是不見得一定要馬上派經紀人進駐去查但是我會請你提供更進一步我會問你很多問題請你要好好的跟我們說明去釐清或請你到我們這邊來好好說明或是正式發函請你就是所謂我們的那個請你來說明你的違規事項的申辯"},{"start":310.469,"end":330.662,"text":"這些都是我們整個流程所以是不是我們一驚覺有風吹草動一聽到這個風聲馬上我們就去做精檢那當然啦 這個就是我們的我們在檢體機關比誰都更在意這件事情但是該 主委因為我剛才聽到您好像一直回答說我們要充分掌握各種資訊之後充分掌握事實我們才會這個啟動一個精檢的動作是這樣嗎"},{"start":334.104,"end":349.595,"text":"不是這樣我想委員那個您在過去這個法律這個過程你非常清楚知道比如對方已經跟我通報有這件事情的時候我一定看你那個通報一定是你就要去注意了當然當然就是我們接下來這個通報我們就會去"},{"start":350.676,"end":370.431,"text":"問他要提供更多的資料 他通報只是一個很粗略說發生這件事情詳細的內容你必須要具信名義告訴我們所以主委 這個也是我希望政府會要做的就是在調查 直到我們一直到有這樣的一個風聲洩漏的時候你們知覺之後 應該立即介入調查 立即介入經檢"},{"start":373.605,"end":384.918,"text":"不是說這個後知後覺等到事情全部爆發了你才說事情都已經發生了這個嚴重的一個損失了才去查這樣的效益我們不曉得這樣的能夠達成什麼效益"},{"start":387.541,"end":411.56,"text":"不是 跟委員報告 其實我們一路來查 查只是有沒有由我們檢察局的人員去進駐檢查這是其中我們一個查的一個方法之一我們不是唯一查的方法就要靠檢察局的人員檢查我們有很多種方式可以去查是 主委我還是希望說我們金管會就是對各種為了防堵各種弊端 這些這個尤其我們銀行或者是"},{"start":412.42,"end":439.545,"text":"監控這些內部員工的一些或者是這些督動有任何弊端的產生我們可能要更精進我們的一個精簡的一個方式對 我們其實是委員會想更積極介入調查好不好我們每次案件我覺得如果我們做不好我們絕對虛心檢討對 才能防堵這些弊端的發生但是我們的目的是希望說這個事情不要再有第二件好 OK 我們也希望這絕對不能再允許這樣的事情發生"},{"start":440.945,"end":465.26,"text":"所以另外台股昨天收在46125點又再次單日超過1000點許多民眾爭相開戶成為這個股民也許多的投資人計畫趁這一波的行情大好的時機來翻身因此開始以房貸信貸股票質押融資等方式來加碼投資股市形成世代同堂的現象"},{"start":466.661,"end":483.449,"text":"當然我們現在看到現在市場已經不是只有四代了已經從四代同堂再進化成六代同堂已經是槓桿再加槓桿我們看到近期的報導指出金管會已經針對四代同堂畫出兩大監理的紅線"},{"start":484.87,"end":500.335,"text":"一個是業務成長異常另外一個是風險指標顯著變化只要採線就可以啟動的專案精簡金管會也表示目前相關數據仍屬正常範圍尚未達到專案精簡的一個條件"},{"start":501.195,"end":527.96,"text":"我想請教主委根據證交所在今年5月公布的資料全台總開戶人數高達1433萬2000多人逼近1500萬的大關其中0到19歲的開戶人數高達75萬人可謂是全民投資的大理財時代的來臨所以我們6月份這是5月份的資料6月份的最新統計資料出來了嗎"},{"start":529.281,"end":548.873,"text":"我們的股民有多少?現在已經這個人數有多少?對,今天新聞有出來,交易所1440萬左右五月份就這個數字,六月份還是這個數字啊?就是我們最新剛公佈沒有增加,沒有增加,好那再請問"},{"start":551.63,"end":554.991,"text":"兩條紅線的標準範圍為何這標準關於業務成長異常還有所謂的風險指標顯著變化你如何來界定"},{"start":566.076,"end":594.775,"text":"對我想這個其實銀行也好券商也好我們基本上我們在過去的我們在管理上都有一套希望他做好風險管理的機制就像我們都知道以前大家都知道DBR22倍的概念就是說剛剛講市場上說四代五代六代那當然是大家覺得是說明其實我們都有持續在監控多重貸款的狀況那這部分我們都是會而且我們也"},{"start":595.555,"end":609.591,"text":"按照例行性不斷會提醒我們金融機構要做好你自己的風險管理也要更積極的幫你的客戶做好風險管理我想這是一個金融機構該做的事情所以主委金管會看的"},{"start":610.892,"end":624.946,"text":"應該不是只有單一金融機構或單一商品或單一指標的這樣的一個現象那當然我們對六代同堂的問題實際上是銀行還有跨建商、跨政經、跨期貨端的總槓桿的風險"},{"start":627.148,"end":652.604,"text":"一個人的投資可能在銀行端他有房貸他有理財型房貸有信貸有車貸在券商端他有股票質押不限定用途的這個貸款的一個借款融資對單價銀行來看可能還在收信範圍內嘛對單一券商來看可能還有單跑品但全部加起來啊單一投資者的現金流可能已經碰到極限了遠遠超過負擔的範圍"},{"start":654.926,"end":667.162,"text":"謝謝文提醒其實我們做一個金融監理比誰都在意這件事情所以我是覺得這個請教我們去密切去關切我們有一套機制正在監控跟防控謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:14:46.345000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:14:48.392000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，請金管會彭主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T12:14:49.196000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:14:50.079000+08:00","text":"請金管會彭主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T12:14:50.079000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T12:14:53.563000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:14:53.563000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:14:53.823000+08:00","text":"主委早。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:14:55.985000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:15:27.159000+08:00","text":"媒體報導金管會預計在7月17日召集全體銀行獨立董事來洽談兼任利益迴避的觀念，銀行局副局長回應表示，這個會議很早之前就已經規劃，並非因為國泰的案子才特別召開，我聽到副局長這個說法，感覺金管會都有一直注意這個問題，請問這樣的會議，金管會過去有舉辦過嗎？","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T12:15:27.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:15:40.361000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，實際上我們金控先行，那個會議是我親自主持，我知道，大概在3月就邀集了所有金控的獨董。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:15:40.741000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:15:41.721000+08:00","text":"3月就有舉辦過一次？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T12:15:42.101000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:15:53.266000+08:00","text":"我們前面第一個就按照我們的規定先請金控的獨董，下一階段我們會邀請銀行的獨董，接下來再看情況，我們會擴及到其他。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:15:56.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:15:59.668000+08:00","text":"過去都一直有舉行這樣的會議？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:15:59.668000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:16:00.849000+08:00","text":"還是今年才開始？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T12:16:02.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:16:08.654000+08:00","text":"過去金管會在很多年以來就有些事項都已經請獨董協查。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:16:11.016000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:16:16.480000+08:00","text":"所以不是例行性的會議，就是發覺有什麼事情的時候才特別去邀請他們來舉辦這個會議？","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T12:16:18.621000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:16:23.423000+08:00","text":"這次的會議是額外針對銀行的獨董。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:16:23.863000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:16:24.504000+08:00","text":"額外針對的嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T12:16:24.784000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:16:36.249000+08:00","text":"對，我們希望獨董扮演更積極、更公正、更獨立的角色這件事情，在過去我們並沒有把它制度化，這次我們期待整個提升公司治理。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:16:39.030000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:17:08.468000+08:00","text":"既然副局長說這個會議很早就在規劃了，你也說從金控先做，是否表示金管會都已經察覺有一些異狀，不管是金控或銀行，也就是說不光這次被報導的國泰世華銀行董事長郭董事長兼職的案子，金管會是不是也有發現其他的案子也有類似的情況？","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:17:08.468000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T12:17:12.210000+08:00","text":"到目前為止有沒有其他的案子？","quality":0.231},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T12:17:12.210000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:17:26.236000+08:00","text":"其實過去我們一直……例如幾年前大家都很在意的大股東處理公司的事情，我們就曾經請過獨董來做一些協查，等於過去就已經有了。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:17:26.456000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:17:29.697000+08:00","text":"目前除了國泰金控這個案子以外，還有沒有其他案子？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:17:29.817000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:17:29.937000+08:00","text":"目前沒有查到？","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T12:17:30.097000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:17:31.617000+08:00","text":"對，目前我們還沒有利用這個獨董去發函請他按照我們上次的做法。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:17:49.061000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:18:29.273000+08:00","text":"另外，臺灣人壽爆內鬼案，內部的楊姓女員工利用舊收費系統的漏洞，4年間共A走了保戶1,658萬元，還涉嫌侵占公司用於客訴補償的7-ELEVEN禮券944張，這些禮券的侵占，金管會是在23日才從媒體的報導得知，而國泰世華董事長的兼職案造成旗下發行的8檔基金淨值重算以及全委帳戶和共同基金賠償投資人的損失，請問主委，這個損失大概多少？","quality":0.851},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T12:18:31.234000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:18:36.577000+08:00","text":"他們有對外揭露的部分就是剛才委員提到的數字。6億元？","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T12:18:37.177000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:18:40.539000+08:00","text":"有2個全委跟投信基金兩部分。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:18:40.979000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:18:41.380000+08:00","text":"損失大概6億元？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T12:18:41.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:18:44.001000+08:00","text":"將近9億到10億元。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:18:44.461000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:18:44.461000+08:00","text":"9億到10億喔！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T12:18:45.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:18:45.662000+08:00","text":"因為兩個部分。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:18:50.465000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:18:57.329000+08:00","text":"這個同樣不是金管會主動調查而發現，而是國泰金控的股東發出聲明才知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T12:19:01.282000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:19:04.283000+08:00","text":"這個金額是它們主動揭露在網站。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:19:04.743000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:19:05.203000+08:00","text":"它主動揭露，對不對！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T12:19:05.463000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:19:06.264000+08:00","text":"因為它必須要揭露。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:19:07.184000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:19:12.666000+08:00","text":"所以會讓人感覺金管會對於金檢這個部分是不是後知後覺？","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T12:19:14.907000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:19:52.730000+08:00","text":"剛才很多委員也關心過這個問題，因為它是一個重大偶發通報，這是它主動來通報，通常我們檢查是我們都不知道，我們要靠檢查才知道，我們已經知道這件事情，但是它的全貌我不知道，我不見得一定要馬上派金檢人員進駐去查，但是我會請你提供更進一步的資訊，我會問你很多問題，請你要好好跟我們說明，去釐清，或者到我們這邊來好好說明，或是正式發函請你來說明你的違規事項的申辯，這些都是我們整個流程。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:19:52.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:19:58.654000+08:00","text":"所以是不是我們一驚覺有風吹草動，一聽到風聲馬上去就金檢？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T12:19:58.654000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:19:58.794000+08:00","text":"那當然啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T12:19:59.374000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:20:03.657000+08:00","text":"我們監理機關比誰都在意這件事情。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:20:04.157000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:20:11.662000+08:00","text":"但是我剛才好像一直聽到您回答「我們要充分掌握各種資訊、充分掌握事實之後，才會啟動金檢動作」，是這樣嗎？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T12:20:15.104000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:20:15.745000+08:00","text":"不是這樣。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T12:20:16.045000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:20:24.771000+08:00","text":"委員，您對於法律的過程也非常清楚知道，在對方已經向我們通報有這件事的時候，我一定……","quality":0.811},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:20:26.913000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:20:27.693000+08:00","text":"你就要開始密切注意了嘛！","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T12:20:27.793000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:20:33.197000+08:00","text":"當然，一經通報，我們接下來就會去問、要求提供更多資料。","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T12:20:33.498000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:20:39.322000+08:00","text":"通報只是很粗略地說發生了這件事，詳細內容仍必須鉅細靡遺地告訴我們。對啦！","quality":0.697},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:20:39.822000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:20:42.885000+08:00","text":"主委，這也是我希望金管會做的。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T12:20:43.665000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:20:45.567000+08:00","text":"這也是調查的一部分。","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:20:45.987000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:20:51.431000+08:00","text":"一有這樣的風聲洩漏、你們知覺的時候，就應該立即介入調查、立即介入金檢啦！","quality":0.781},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T12:20:51.431000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T12:20:54.605000+08:00","text":"金檢有其一定的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:20:54.605000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:21:05.898000+08:00","text":"不是後知後覺，等到事情全部爆發、都已經發生嚴重損失才去查，我不曉得這樣能夠達成什麼效益。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T12:21:09.422000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:21:18.829000+08:00","text":"其實我們一路都在查，只差在有沒有由檢查局人員進駐檢查，這是我們調查的方法其中之一。","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T12:21:19.229000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:21:23.853000+08:00","text":"靠檢查局人員檢查不是我們唯一的調查方法，有很多種方式可以查。","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:21:24.654000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:21:44.442000+08:00","text":"主委，我還是希望金管會為了防堵各種弊端，尤其是防止銀行或金控內部員工、獨董有任何弊端產生，要更精進金檢的方式、更積極地介入調查啦！","quality":0.831},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:21:45.022000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:21:45.802000+08:00","text":"好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T12:21:46.182000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:21:50.503000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，其實每一次發生案件，如果是我們做不好，我們絕對虛心檢討。","quality":0.655},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:21:50.503000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:21:51.543000+08:00","text":"對，才能防堵這些弊端發生。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T12:21:51.563000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:21:56.224000+08:00","text":"但是我們的目的是希望這樣的事情不要再有第二件。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:21:56.604000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:22:00.525000+08:00","text":"好，我們也希望，絕對不能再允許這樣的事情發生。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:22:02.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:22:09.190000+08:00","text":"另外，臺股昨天收在4萬6,125點，再次單日上漲超過千點。","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:22:09.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:22:26.240000+08:00","text":"民眾爭相開戶成為股民，也有許多投資人計劃趁這一波行情大好的時機翻身，因此開始以房貸、信貸、股票質押、融資等方式加碼投資股市，形成「四貸同堂」現象。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:22:27.801000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:22:38.506000+08:00","text":"我們又看到，現在市場已經不是只有「四貸」，而是已經從「四貸同堂」進化成「六貸同堂」，槓桿再加槓桿！","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:22:39.067000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:22:53.272000+08:00","text":"近期報導指出，金管會已經針對「四貸同堂」劃出兩大監理紅線，一是業務成長異常，另一項是風險指標顯著變化，只要踩線，就可以啟動專案金檢。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:22:54.593000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:23:01.315000+08:00","text":"但金管會也表示，目前相關數據仍屬正常範圍，尚未達到專案金檢的條件。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:23:02.195000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:23:23.819000+08:00","text":"我想請教主委，根據證交所今年五月公布的資料，全臺總開戶人數高達一千四百三十三萬兩千多人，逼近一千五百萬大關，其中0到19歲開戶人數高達75萬人，可謂全民投資大理財的時代來臨。","quality":0.803},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:23:25.539000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:23:28.960000+08:00","text":"這是五月份的資料，六月份的最新統計資料出來了嗎？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:23:30.661000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:23:34.744000+08:00","text":"股民有多少、現在已經開戶的人數有多少？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T12:23:36.805000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:23:40.768000+08:00","text":"今天有新聞出來，交易所有1,440萬戶左右。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:23:41.728000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:23:44.170000+08:00","text":"五月份就是這個數字，六月份還是這個數字啊？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T12:23:45.070000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:23:46.551000+08:00","text":"就是最新、我們剛剛公布的啊！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:23:47.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:23:48.572000+08:00","text":"沒有增加？好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:23:49.853000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:23:53.370000+08:00","text":"再請問，兩條紅線的標準範圍為何？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:23:53.370000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T12:23:54.370000+08:00","text":"剛剛提到兩條紅線，這兩條紅線的標準怎麼定？","quality":0.158},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:23:53.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:23:55.971000+08:00","text":"對於業務成長異常以及風險指標顯著變化，你們如何來界定？","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T12:24:08.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:24:33.153000+08:00","text":"其實，銀行也好、券商也好，過去我們在管理上都有一套希望它做好風險管理的機制，就像以前大家都知道以前DBR 22倍的概念，對於剛剛講的市場上四貸、五貸、六貸等現象，其實我們都持續監控多重貸款的狀況。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T12:24:35.654000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:24:48.429000+08:00","text":"我們也例行性地、不斷提醒金融機構做好自己的風險管理，且更積極地幫客戶做好風險管理，我想這是金融機構該做的事情。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:24:49.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:24:57.358000+08:00","text":"主委，金管會看的應該不單是金融機構、單一商品或單一指標的現象。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T12:24:57.678000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:24:58.879000+08:00","text":"那當然，我們對於……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:24:58.879000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:25:05.946000+08:00","text":"所以「六貸同堂」的問題實際上是銀行與跨建商、跨證金、跨期貨端的總槓桿風險。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:25:08.148000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:25:21.476000+08:00","text":"一個人的投資在銀行端可能有房貸、理財型房貸、信貸、車貸，在券商端有股票質押、不限定用途的借款融資。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:25:21.476000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:25:23.998000+08:00","text":"以單家銀行來看，可能還在授信範圍內嘛！","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:25:24.878000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:25:26.720000+08:00","text":"以單一券商來看，也可能還有擔保品。","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:25:27.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:25:33.604000+08:00","text":"但全部加起來，單一投資者的現金流可能已經擴張到極限，遠遠超過可負擔範圍。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T12:25:35.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:25:40.612000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員提醒，其實我們做金融監理比誰都在意這些事情。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"林委員思銘","start":"2026-07-01T12:25:40.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:25:45.258000+08:00","text":"所以請金管會密切關切這樣的風險。","quality":0.467},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-01T12:25:45.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:25:48.162000+08:00","text":"謝謝，我們有一套機制正在監控與防控，謝謝。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T12:25:48.662000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T12:25:50.662000+08:00","text":"謝謝林思銘委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T12:25:50.962000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T12:25:54.962000+08:00","text":"今日登記發言委員均已詢答完畢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T12:25:55.262000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T12:26:11.547714+08:00","text":"現在進行討論事項處理，請議事人員宣讀今日審查會計師法部分條文修正草案之修正條文內容，預計宣讀時間1分鐘，宣讀完畢即進行協商。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T12:26:11.847714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T12:26:14.990571+08:00","text":"財政部官員可以先行離席。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T12:26:15.290571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T12:26:23.576286+08:00","text":"第十八條　　協助會計師執行簽證工作之助理人員，應具備下列資格之一：","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T12:26:23.876286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T12:26:26.447714+08:00","text":"一、經會計師考試及格。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T12:26:26.747714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T12:26:36.176286+08:00","text":"二、專科以上學校畢業，修畢會計學、審計學、稅務或電腦相關科目，合計十學分以上。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T12:26:36.476286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T12:26:41.619143+08:00","text":"三、高等或普通考試會計、審計人員考試及格。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T12:26:41.919143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T12:26:47.919143+08:00","text":"四、高級商業職業學校畢業，任會計、審計工作滿二年。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T12:26:48.219143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T12:27:02.790571+08:00","text":"協助會計師執行永續資訊簽證工作之助理人員資格，不受前項規定限制，由全國聯合會擬訂，報請主管機關核定；變更時，亦同。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T12:27:03.090571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T12:27:16.233429+08:00","text":"會計師事務所應於每半年度終了後十日內，將擔任簽證工作之助理人員受僱或解僱資料，報請全國聯合會備查。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T12:27:16.533429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T12:27:20.819143+08:00","text":"第三十九條　　會計師得執行下列業務：","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T12:27:21.119143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T12:27:25.404857+08:00","text":"一、財務報告或其他財務資訊之簽證。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T12:27:25.704857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T12:27:37.990571+08:00","text":"二、關於會計之制度設計、管理或稅務諮詢、稽核、調查、整理、清算、鑑定、財務分析、資產估價或財產信託等事項。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T12:27:38.290571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T12:27:50.004857+08:00","text":"三、充任檢查人、清算人、破產管理人、仲裁人、遺囑執行人、遺產管理人、重整人、重整監督人或其他受託人。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T12:27:50.304857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T12:27:56.876286+08:00","text":"四、稅務案件代理人或營利事業所得稅相關申報之簽證。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1421,"blocks":[["林委員思銘：（12時14分）謝謝主席，請金管會彭主委。"],["主席：請金管會彭主委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員好。"],["林委員思銘：主委早。媒體報導金管會預計在7月17日召集全體銀行獨立董事來洽談兼任利益迴避的觀念，銀行局副局長回應表示，這個會議很早之前就已經規劃，並非因為國泰的案子才特別召開，我聽到副局長這個說法，感覺金管會都有一直注意這個問題，請問這樣的會議，金管會過去有舉辦過嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：跟委員報告，實際上我們金控先行，那個會議是我親自主持，我知道，大概在3月就邀集了所有金控的獨董。"],["林委員思銘：3月就有舉辦過一次？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們前面第一個就按照我們的規定先請金控的獨董，下一階段我們會邀請銀行的獨董，接下來再看情況，我們會擴及到其他。"],["林委員思銘：過去都一直有舉行這樣的會議？還是今年才開始？"],["彭主任委員金隆：過去金管會在很多年以來就有些事項都已經請獨董協查。"],["林委員思銘：所以不是例行性的會議，就是發覺有什麼事情的時候才特別去邀請他們來舉辦這個會議？"],["彭主任委員金隆：這次的會議是額外針對銀行的獨董。"],["林委員思銘：額外針對的嘛！"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，我們希望獨董扮演更積極、更公正、更獨立的角色這件事情，在過去我們並沒有把它制度化，這次我們期待整個提升公司治理。"],["林委員思銘：既然副局長說這個會議很早就在規劃了，你也說從金控先做，是否表示金管會都已經察覺有一些異狀，不管是金控或銀行，也就是說不光這次被報導的國泰世華銀行董事長郭董事長兼職的案子，金管會是不是也有發現其他的案子也有類似的情況？到目前為止有沒有其他的案子？"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實過去我們一直……例如幾年前大家都很在意的大股東處理公司的事情，我們就曾經請過獨董來做一些協查，等於過去就已經有了。"],["林委員思銘：目前除了國泰金控這個案子以外，還有沒有其他案子？目前沒有查到？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，目前我們還沒有利用這個獨董去發函請他按照我們上次的做法。"],["林委員思銘：另外，臺灣人壽爆內鬼案，內部的楊姓女員工利用舊收費系統的漏洞，4年間共A走了保戶1,658萬元，還涉嫌侵占公司用於客訴補償的7-ELEVEN禮券944張，這些禮券的侵占，金管會是在23日才從媒體的報導得知，而國泰世華董事長的兼職案造成旗下發行的8檔基金淨值重算以及全委帳戶和共同基金賠償投資人的損失，請問主委，這個損失大概多少？"],["彭主任委員金隆：他們有對外揭露的部分就是剛才委員提到的數字。"],["林委員思銘：6億元？"],["彭主任委員金隆：有2個全委跟投信基金兩部分。"],["林委員思銘：損失大概6億元？"],["彭主任委員金隆：將近9億到10億元。"],["林委員思銘：9億到10億喔！"],["彭主任委員金隆：因為兩個部分。"],["林委員思銘：這個同樣不是金管會主動調查而發現，而是國泰金控的股東發出聲明才知道。"],["彭主任委員金隆：這個金額是它們主動揭露在網站。"],["林委員思銘：它主動揭露，對不對！"],["彭主任委員金隆：因為它必須要揭露。"],["林委員思銘：所以會讓人感覺金管會對於金檢這個部分是不是後知後覺？"],["彭主任委員金隆：剛才很多委員也關心過這個問題，因為它是一個重大偶發通報，這是它主動來通報，通常我們檢查是我們都不知道，我們要靠檢查才知道，我們已經知道這件事情，但是它的全貌我不知道，我不見得一定要馬上派金檢人員進駐去查，但是我會請你提供更進一步的資訊，我會問你很多問題，請你要好好跟我們說明，去釐清，或者到我們這邊來好好說明，或是正式發函請你來說明你的違規事項的申辯，這些都是我們整個流程。"],["林委員思銘：所以是不是我們一驚覺有風吹草動，一聽到風聲馬上去就金檢？"],["彭主任委員金隆：那當然啦！我們監理機關比誰都在意這件事情。"],["林委員思銘：但是我剛才好像一直聽到您回答「我們要充分掌握各種資訊、充分掌握事實之後，才會啟動金檢動作」，是這樣嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：不是這樣。委員，您對於法律的過程也非常清楚知道，在對方已經向我們通報有這件事的時候，我一定……"],["林委員思銘：你就要開始密切注意了嘛！"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然，一經通報，我們接下來就會去問、要求提供更多資料。通報只是很粗略地說發生了這件事，詳細內容仍必須鉅細靡遺地告訴我們。"],["林委員思銘：對啦！主委，這也是我希望金管會做的。"],["彭主任委員金隆：這也是調查的一部分。"],["林委員思銘：一有這樣的風聲洩漏、你們知覺的時候，就應該立即介入調查、立即介入金檢啦！"],["彭主任委員金隆：金檢有其一定的……"],["林委員思銘：不是後知後覺，等到事情全部爆發、都已經發生嚴重損失才去查，我不曉得這樣能夠達成什麼效益。"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實我們一路都在查，只差在有沒有由檢查局人員進駐檢查，這是我們調查的方法其中之一。靠檢查局人員檢查不是我們唯一的調查方法，有很多種方式可以查。"],["林委員思銘：主委，我還是希望金管會為了防堵各種弊端，尤其是防止銀行或金控內部員工、獨董有任何弊端產生，要更精進金檢的方式、更積極地介入調查啦！好不好？"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝委員，其實每一次發生案件，如果是我們做不好，我們絕對虛心檢討。"],["林委員思銘：對，才能防堵這些弊端發生。"],["彭主任委員金隆：但是我們的目的是希望這樣的事情不要再有第二件。"],["林委員思銘：好，我們也希望，絕對不能再允許這樣的事情發生。","另外，臺股昨天收在4萬6,125點，再次單日上漲超過千點。民眾爭相開戶成為股民，也有許多投資人計劃趁這一波行情大好的時機翻身，因此開始以房貸、信貸、股票質押、融資等方式加碼投資股市，形成「四貸同堂」現象。我們又看到，現在市場已經不是只有「四貸」，而是已經從「四貸同堂」進化成「六貸同堂」，槓桿再加槓桿！近期報導指出，金管會已經針對「四貸同堂」劃出兩大監理紅線，一是業務成長異常，另一項是風險指標顯著變化，只要踩線，就可以啟動專案金檢。但金管會也表示，目前相關數據仍屬正常範圍，尚未達到專案金檢的條件。我想請教主委，根據證交所今年五月公布的資料，全臺總開戶人數高達一千四百三十三萬兩千多人，逼近一千五百萬大關，其中0到19歲開戶人數高達75萬人，可謂全民投資大理財的時代來臨。這是五月份的資料，六月份的最新統計資料出來了嗎？股民有多少、現在已經開戶的人數有多少？"],["彭主任委員金隆：今天有新聞出來，交易所有1,440萬戶左右。"],["林委員思銘：五月份就是這個數字，六月份還是這個數字啊？"],["彭主任委員金隆：就是最新、我們剛剛公布的啊！"],["林委員思銘：沒有增加？好。","再請問，兩條紅線的標準範圍為何？剛剛提到兩條紅線，這兩條紅線的標準怎麼定？對於業務成長異常以及風險指標顯著變化，你們如何來界定？"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實，銀行也好、券商也好，過去我們在管理上都有一套希望它做好風險管理的機制，就像以前大家都知道以前DBR 22倍的概念，對於剛剛講的市場上四貸、五貸、六貸等現象，其實我們都持續監控多重貸款的狀況。我們也例行性地、不斷提醒金融機構做好自己的風險管理，且更積極地幫客戶做好風險管理，我想這是金融機構該做的事情。"],["林委員思銘：主委，金管會看的應該不單是金融機構、單一商品或單一指標的現象。"],["彭主任委員金隆：那當然，我們對於……"],["林委員思銘：所以「六貸同堂」的問題實際上是銀行與跨建商、跨證金、跨期貨端的總槓桿風險。一個人的投資在銀行端可能有房貸、理財型房貸、信貸、車貸，在券商端有股票質押、不限定用途的借款融資。以單家銀行來看，可能還在授信範圍內嘛！以單一券商來看，也可能還有擔保品。但全部加起來，單一投資者的現金流可能已經擴張到極限，遠遠超過可負擔範圍。"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝委員提醒，其實我們做金融監理比誰都在意這些事情。"],["林委員思銘：所以請金管會密切關切這樣的風險。"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝，我們有一套機制正在監控與防控，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林思銘委員。","今日登記發言委員均已詢答完畢。","現在進行討論事項處理，請議事人員宣讀今日審查會計師法部分條文修正草案之修正條文內容，預計宣讀時間1分鐘，宣讀完畢即進行協商。財政部官員可以先行離席。","會計師法部分條文修正草案：","第十八條　　協助會計師執行簽證工作之助理人員，應具備下列資格之一：","一、經會計師考試及格。","二、專科以上學校畢業，修畢會計學、審計學、稅務或電腦相關科目，合計十學分以上。","三、高等或普通考試會計、審計人員考試及格。","四、高級商業職業學校畢業，任會計、審計工作滿二年。","協助會計師執行永續資訊簽證工作之助理人員資格，不受前項規定限制，由全國聯合會擬訂，報請主管機關核定；變更時，亦同。","會計師事務所應於每半年度終了後十日內，將擔任簽證工作之助理人員受僱或解僱資料，報請全國聯合會備查。","第三十九條　　會計師得執行下列業務：","一、財務報告或其他財務資訊之簽證。","二、關於會計之制度設計、管理或稅務諮詢、稽核、調查、整理、清算、鑑定、財務分析、資產估價或財產信託等事項。","三、充任檢查人、清算人、破產管理人、仲裁人、遺囑執行人、遺產管理人、重整人、重整監督人或其他受託人。","四、稅務案件代理人或營利事業所得稅相關申報之簽證。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":556,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-20-20","speakers":["吳秉叡","林德福","賴士葆","郭國文","林岱樺","劉書彬","賴惠員","李彥秀","顏寬恒","羅明才","陳玉珍","王世堅","李坤城","林楚茵","許忠信","楊瓊瓔","林思銘"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2026-07-01"],"gazette_id":"1155602","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155602_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、彙總整理提出「中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案審查總報告（公務預算部分）草案」提\n報院會案；二、彙總整理提出「中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業及非營業\n部分審查總報告草案」提報院會案；三、審查本院委員吳秉叡等20人擬具「會計師法部分條文修\n正草案」案；四、審查本院委員吳秉叡等21人、委員李彥秀等18人分別擬具「證券交易稅條例第\n二條之一條文修正草案」等2案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1155602_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}