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以下的公教人員或者是警檢等等的他們基本上是不會受到約束的除非說有涉及到什麼國家機密等等這些問題可是你看人事行內總統他現在發布的規則是他不分職等的"},{"start":113.417,"end":138.945,"text":"不管是工友層級的 警衛層級的或是一般的老師現在出國都要經過核准在實質等以下的話應該是要經過他的這個主管機關的請假之後的同意比如說剛剛您提到的像是在學校裡面對 如果這個回歸到各個學校去辦也就罷了但是現在不是知識隱私人 是行政總署發布的命令那麼我認為說這個基本上已經違反法律保留原則了"},{"start":139.685,"end":160.588,"text":"因為如果說省府主委的意思是說十職等以上才會受到約束或者是說我們剛剛講十職等以下他可能涉及到國家安全的業務或是可能會有涉及到機密業務的那受到管制那本行商予以贊同可是如果說是不分職等不分教師的他的工作性質"},{"start":161.229,"end":180.734,"text":"完全都要受到這個行政命令這個辦法的高度約束的話我認為這是極不合理的所以這邊的話可能也請神父主委回去再去了解一下我可以跟委員報告一下嗎基本上十字燈以下的話它只需要經過請假然後由主管機關不是由中央機關不是由陸委會開聯審會"},{"start":182.674,"end":192.839,"text":"過去基本上是不需要了沒有說經過服務機會好沒關係因為這個議題我想我就反映給神父主委知道那神父主委可以先請回座那接下來我想請顧部長"},{"start":201.875,"end":226.268,"text":"對 副主委可以請回座沒問題我想請教顧部長今天兩個議題第一個就是說跟上個星期其實立法院有舉辦有關於女性教昭制度配套措施的這樣一個討論那麼當時因為本席擔任召委所以我來不及來提出我的問題但是我今天我想要進一步的跟部長這裡反映就是說我們知道其實現在國防部已經在著手修正陸軍"},{"start":227.769,"end":253.288,"text":"陸海空軍軍事官服役條例以及志願士兵的服役條例未來準備將女性後備軍人納入後備役的管理以及教育召集制度那麼針對這個教召制度當然本席基本上是同意支持的可是呢本席在這裡要提醒的就是說為什麼當時會有為什麼會有女性的這個軍人他們會要提前退伍"},{"start":254.068,"end":273.988,"text":"的原因可能是因為結婚啊然後生育或是要照顧幼兒所以他們可能只能就提前退伍可是我們現在如果說按照國防部修法方向未來退伍12年內都有可能被教育召集的話而且整個教導時間拉成到14天這個可能會對於一些這個女性後備軍人來說可能會產生一些"},{"start":276.81,"end":294.546,"text":"不利的一些影响因为会影响到他的家庭照顾更何况在我们现在兵役法的第43条里面对于免除教育召集的情形是包括患病家庭重大事故学生民意代表的会期出国服刑等等这些原因"},{"start":295.066,"end":320.295,"text":"所以呢對於像是幼兒照顧產後育兒或是主要照顧者的身份基本上是沒有列入在可以排除或免除或者是延期召集的這個法定事由所以這裡的話是部長應該是更重要的是說要去檢討現在的殯儀法或者是說未來有沒有可能也可以把這些事由排除在要去召召的這個範圍裡面"},{"start":323.204,"end":339.915,"text":"跟委員報告他大概43條有兩款跟委員所講的可能也可以有關第一個是家庭發生重大事故必須本人處理這是一個狀況另外一個狀況是有那個第八款其他因特殊事由而無法應召者那這個包括"},{"start":340.875,"end":365.613,"text":"譬如說他分娩流產 或者需要照顧重大生病的血親那本席是提出來 因為其實育兒並沒有名列在室友裡面所以建議國防部可以提出修法需要照顧未成年的子女的部分屬於我們應該在和免的我們會考量的室友也就是範圍之內"},{"start":367.114,"end":389.217,"text":"我們希望就是未來能夠平衡化就是可以就是說真的讓這些有些後輩軍人那麼如果說他們家裡面還有年幼的小孩可能12歲以下的話至少要讓他們有足夠的時間可以在家裡面照顧而不會因為月限較早一下14天這一定會影響到家庭作業就譬如說如果配偶同時配偶當然不可能同時被教育特別還有未成年的子女"},{"start":389.377,"end":413.42,"text":"那如果配偶只有一邊有未成年子女的話那我們再看看這個狀況那我們會來考納這個總之就是本市認為說這是一個法律的沒有明定的情況之下希望能夠站在就是多考慮到後備女性後備軍人的家庭權益的問題特別是如果未滿4歲我還有第二個問題我很快再問一下就是"},{"start":414.28,"end":432.452,"text":"現在有關於提前退伍賠償的這件事情根據國防部自己的統計現在110年到114年總共有6315位的官兵申請提前退伍其中有4267人依法要"},{"start":435.293,"end":438.455,"text":"應負這個賠償責任賠償的總金額是高達九億兩千多萬那麼到目前為止還有將近有五億九千多萬是還待管制也就是說是其實他要賠償提前隊伍的軍人他們要賠償"},{"start":450.982,"end":473.168,"text":"那賠償的這些金額那目前有些都還沒有交完那沒有交完的最重要原因是因為我們現行的制度是竟然准許他們可以分期付款分期的去繳納這個賠償金然後高達60期這個部分其實已經造成就是食物上面這個軍隊的食物的管考的工作人員的一個負擔"},{"start":474.502,"end":491.328,"text":"因為他們不斷的要去盯到底誰有繳錢誰沒繳錢變成我們的相關的承辦人員有點像是一個軍隊一個討債單位不斷的要去催促哪些人可能沒有繳所以我認為說基本上這個分期繳納60期的規定應該要進行檢討"},{"start":495.129,"end":504.214,"text":"如果說他提前退伍的軍人他本身就有財力為什麼要允許他可以分六十期除非說他賠償的金額很高那麼如果說他賠償的金額並不是很高那為什麼要同意他賠償就分期繳納六十期然後甚至還可以延長到七十期"},{"start":512.881,"end":526.558,"text":"我本席辦公室這裡已經接到蠻多的人就是軍中的同仁有反應這已經造成他們工作上面的負擔所以我本席希望部長這邊是不是可以去檢討這個制度"},{"start":528.971,"end":543.559,"text":"我們來研議這個有關這個這個基層上面在從事這樣的一個工作我們如何把它這個簡化或者是透過一些比較智慧化的一些協助"},{"start":547.481,"end":568.835,"text":"它的額度可以分期來定它的分期繳納期譬如說它如果只是要賠償二十萬你也允許它六十期這就造成大家負擔嘛對不對 你二十萬 譬如說四十萬 五十萬然後五十萬以上或一百萬以上它也許有不同的分期繳納制度但是呢 重要就是說是我們不希望變成讓軍隊基層的幹部變成是一個討債"},{"start":573.677,"end":599.983,"text":"討債人員 然後不斷地去吹 去盯到底哪個人有繳納 哪個人沒有繳納這已經造成實務上承辦單位的工作的負擔我們希望就這個部分的話國防部能夠改善我再來要請 我想應該可以透過一些管理系統吧將那個負擔減到最低吧好 那這個部分是不是可以請部長給我一份報告 好不好兩個禮拜之內給我一份報告有關於就是相關的提前退伍賠償"},{"start":601.663,"end":607.029,"text":"的這個現在的案件數然後那個賠償的這個狀況然後追討的狀況兩個禮拜之內給我一份報告好我了解一下好謝謝翁小龍"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:21:17.069000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:21:17.189000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:21:17.909000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:21:21.251000+08:00","text":"首先請陸委會沈副主委。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"沈副主任委員有忠","start":"2026-07-01T12:21:21.251000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T12:21:29.289000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:21:29.289000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T12:21:37.327000+08:00","text":"沈副主委好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:21:37.327000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:21:55.298000+08:00","text":"其實我今天本來沒有準備質詢副主委，可是因為剛剛前面聽了有委員講到有關於去大陸的政治風險的部分，然後就讓我想到好像從7月1日開始……今天。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:21:56.038000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:22:01.981000+08:00","text":"對，今天開始赴大陸港澳地區的公教人員都必須要事先經過核准之後……","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"沈副主任委員有忠","start":"2026-07-01T12:22:02.721000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:22:08.003000+08:00","text":"報告委員，不是、不是，我誤會了，我說的今天是指中共開始實施宗教……民族團結進步促進法。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:22:08.624000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:22:22.169000+08:00","text":"我講的是人事行政總處好像才剛發布一個新的命令，就是從7月1日開始，公教人員赴大陸港澳地區都必須要事先經過核准，是吧？","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:22:22.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:22:23.410000+08:00","text":"這是陸委會的意思嘛？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:22:24.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:22:29.695000+08:00","text":"所以人事行政總處有配合頒布類似一個行政指導……","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"沈副主任委員有忠","start":"2026-07-01T12:22:31.677000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:22:34.239000+08:00","text":"據我瞭解應該不是全部的公務人員。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:22:34.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:22:36.141000+08:00","text":"所以是指高階的嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈副主任委員有忠","start":"2026-07-01T12:22:36.141000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:22:38.463000+08:00","text":"特定職等以上，這應該是一貫以來的做法。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:22:41.395000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:23:05.154000+08:00","text":"沈副主委，您今天這樣說，我很支持您的看法，按照兩岸人民關係條例的規定，基本上是十職等以上的文官才會受到相當程度的約束，十職等以下的公教人員或者是警檢等等，他們基本上是不會受到約束的，除非說有涉及到什麼國家機密等等這些問題。是。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:23:05.154000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:23:16.339000+08:00","text":"可是你看人事行政總處現在發布的規則是不分職等的，不管是工友層級的、警衛層級的或是一般的老師，現在出國都要經過核准。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"沈副主任委員有忠","start":"2026-07-01T12:23:17.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:23:24.601000+08:00","text":"在十職等以下，請假之後應該是要經過他的主管機關的同意，比如說剛剛您提到的像是在學校裡面……","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:23:24.822000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:23:35.925000+08:00","text":"對，如果真的回歸到各個學校去辦理也就罷了，但是現在不是，是人事行政總處發布的命令，那麼我認為這個基本上已經違反法律保留原則了。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:23:37.486000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:24:09.472000+08:00","text":"今天沈副主委的意思如果是說是十職等以上才會受到約束，或者說剛剛講十職等以下而可能涉及到國家安全的業務，或是可能會有涉及到機密業務，需要受到管制，本席予以贊同，可是如果不分職等、不分教師的工作性質，完全都要受到這項行政命令、這項辦法高度約束的話，我認為是極不合理的，所以也請沈副主委回去之後再了解一下。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"沈副主任委員有忠","start":"2026-07-01T12:24:09.932000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:24:12.352000+08:00","text":"我可以向委員報告一下嗎？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"沈副主任委員有忠","start":"2026-07-01T12:24:12.352000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:24:17.734000+08:00","text":"基本上，十職等以下者只需要經過請假，且是由主管機關，不是由中央機關、不是由陸委會開聯審會，所以比如說……","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:24:19.674000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:24:28.639000+08:00","text":"過去基本上是不需要，沒有因為服務機關……好，沒關係，這個議題我就反映給沈副主委知道，沈副主委先請回座。謝謝。","quality":0.804},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:24:29.379000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:24:29.839000+08:00","text":"接下來我想請顧部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T12:24:29.839000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T12:24:41.857000+08:00","text":"翁委員好。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:24:41.857000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:24:59.566000+08:00","text":"我今天想請教顧部長兩個議題，第一，上個星期立法院舉辦了有關女性教召制度配套措施的討論，當時本席因為擔任召委，所以來不及提出我的問題，今天想進一步向部長反映。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:25:00.047000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:25:15.337000+08:00","text":"我們知道其實現在國防部已經著手修正陸海空軍軍官士官服役條例以及志願士兵服役條例，未來準備將女性後備軍人納入後備役管理及教育召集制度。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:25:17.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:25:30.267000+08:00","text":"針對教召制度，本席基本上是同意支持的，可是在這裡要提醒，為什麼當時會有女性軍人提前退伍？","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:25:31.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:25:39.076000+08:00","text":"原因可能是結婚、生育或照顧幼兒，所以她們就只能提前退伍。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:25:39.216000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:25:57.754000+08:00","text":"可是按照國防部現在的修法方向，未來退伍12年內都可能被教育召集、而且整個教召時間拉長到14天的話，對於一些女性後備軍人來說可能會產生一些不利影響，因為會影響她的家庭照顧。","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:25:58.434000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:26:23.910000+08:00","text":"更何況在現行兵役法第四十三條裡，免除教育召集的情形包括患病、家庭重大事故、學生、民意代表在會期中、出國、服刑等原因，幼兒照顧、產後育兒或具主要照顧者身分基本上沒有列入可以排除、免除或延期召集的法定事由。","quality":0.835},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:26:24.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:26:30.153000+08:00","text":"所以更重要的是不是檢討現在的兵役法？","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:26:30.393000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:26:37.275000+08:00","text":"或者未來有沒有可能也把這些事由納入排除教召的範圍？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T12:26:40.204000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:26:49.710000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，第四十三條大概有兩款可能與委員講的有關，第一是家庭發生重大事故必須本人處理，這是一種狀況。","quality":0.809},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T12:26:49.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:27:02.999000+08:00","text":"另外一個狀況是第八款：其他因特殊事由而無法應召者，譬如說分娩、流產，或者需要照顧生重大疾病的血親等等。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:27:04.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:27:13.146000+08:00","text":"本席提出來是因為育兒並沒有明列在事由裡面，所以建議國防部就這部分提出修法，可以嗎？","quality":0.711},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T12:27:14.147000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:27:22.613000+08:00","text":"需要照顧未成年子女應該屬於核免時會考量的事由，也就是在範圍之內。","quality":0.767},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:27:24.114000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:27:36.387000+08:00","text":"我是希望未來能夠明文化，真的讓這些女性後備軍人適用，如果她們家裡還有年幼的小孩、例如12歲以下，至少要給她們足夠時間可以在家裡照顧。","quality":0.78},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:27:37.788000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:27:39.850000+08:00","text":"由於現在教召一下子14天，如果有比較擔心的問題，一定會影響家庭。","quality":0.37},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T12:27:41.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:27:46.197000+08:00","text":"如果配偶同時……配偶當然不可能同時被教召，特別是還有未成年子女時。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:27:46.197000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T12:27:47.197000+08:00","text":"萬一是單親呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T12:27:46.737000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:27:54.725000+08:00","text":"如果配偶只有一邊有未成年子女的話，我們會看狀況考量納入。","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:27:54.725000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:28:05.875000+08:00","text":"總之，本席希望在法律沒有明定的情況下多考慮女性後備軍人的家庭權益問題，一併考慮。","quality":0.784},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T12:28:05.875000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:28:07.697000+08:00","text":"對，特別是如果未滿4歲……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:28:07.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:28:10.079000+08:00","text":"接下來，我還有第二個問題很快地問一下。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:28:12.041000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:28:34.855000+08:00","text":"關於提前退伍賠償這件事，根據國防部自己的統計，110年到114年總共有6,315位官兵申請提前退伍，其中有4,267人依法應負賠償責任，賠償總金額高達九億兩千多萬，到目前為止，還有將近五億九千多萬待管制。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:28:34.875000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:28:51.323000+08:00","text":"也就是說，其實提前退伍的軍人要賠償，但目前有些人賠償金額還沒繳完。","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:28:51.903000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:29:02.226000+08:00","text":"沒有繳完最重要的原因是現行制度竟然准許他們分期付款、分期繳納賠償金，且高達60期！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:29:04.066000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:29:24.927000+08:00","text":"這部分其實已經造成軍隊實務管考工作人員的負擔，因為他們要不斷地盯到底誰繳錢、誰沒繳錢，導致相關承辦人員有點像軍隊裡的討債單位，要不斷催促哪些人沒有繳。","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:29:25.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:29:37.512000+08:00","text":"我認為分60期繳納的規定應該檢討，如果提前退伍的軍人本身就有財力，為什麼要允許他分60期？","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:29:38.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:29:38.793000+08:00","text":"除非他的賠償金額很高。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:29:38.833000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:29:41.194000+08:00","text":"如果賠償金額並不是很高，為什麼要同意他將賠償分60期繳納、甚至可以延長到70期？","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:29:50.682000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:30:03.538000+08:00","text":"本席辦公室已經接到滿多軍中同仁反映，這已經造成他們工作上的負擔，所以本席希望部長是不是可以檢討這個制度？","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T12:30:05.971000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:30:20.539000+08:00","text":"我們會研議在基層從事這樣的工作時如何簡化，或者透過一些智慧化的協助，讓基層負擔減輕。","quality":0.744},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:30:20.539000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T12:30:29.505000+08:00","text":"本席具體建議，譬如說還是要區分賠償金額，依照額度定分期繳納的期數。","quality":0.267},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:30:29.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:30:34.508000+08:00","text":"如果只要賠償20萬元，你也允許他分60期，這樣就會造成大家的負擔嘛！","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:30:35.508000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:30:51.037000+08:00","text":"對於賠償20萬、40萬、50萬、50萬以上或100萬以上者也許可以有不同的分期繳納制度，重要的是我們不希望讓軍隊基層幹部變成討債人員。","quality":0.863},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:30:51.337000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:31:03.940000+08:00","text":"他們必須不斷去催、去盯到底哪個人有繳納、哪個人沒有繳納，這已經造成實務上承辦單位的工作負擔，希望國防部能就這部分改善。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T12:31:04.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:31:04.160000+08:00","text":"好，我再了解。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T12:31:04.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:31:08.601000+08:00","text":"我想應該可以透過一些管理系統將負擔減到最低。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:31:09.241000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:31:12.382000+08:00","text":"好，是不是可以請部長給我一份報告？","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-07-01T12:31:15.102000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:31:23.168000+08:00","text":"關於提前退伍賠償的案件數、賠償與追討狀況，在兩個禮拜之內給我一份報告。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-01T12:31:23.188000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:31:23.789000+08:00","text":"好，我了解一下。謝謝。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T12:31:23.949000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-01T12:31:23.949000+08:00","text":"謝謝翁曉玲委員。","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T12:31:24.449000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T12:31:30.449000+08:00","text":"接下來請鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員，鄭正鈐委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T12:31:30.749000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T12:31:36.463286+08:00","text":"再來請林倩綺委員、林倩綺委員，林倩綺委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-01T12:31:36.763286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-01T12:31:39.334714+08:00","text":"接下來請郭昱晴委員。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":983,"blocks":[["翁委員曉玲：（12時21分）謝謝主席。首先請陸委會沈副主委。"],["沈副主任委員有忠：委員好。"],["翁委員曉玲：沈副主委好。其實我今天本來沒有準備質詢副主委，可是因為剛剛前面聽了有委員講到有關於去大陸的政治風險的部分，然後就讓我想到好像從7月1日開始……"],["沈副主任委員有忠：今天。"],["翁委員曉玲：對，今天開始赴大陸港澳地區的公教人員都必須要事先經過核准之後……"],["沈副主任委員有忠：報告委員，不是、不是，我誤會了，我說的今天是指中共開始實施宗教……民族團結進步促進法。"],["翁委員曉玲：我講的是人事行政總處好像才剛發布一個新的命令，就是從7月1日開始，公教人員赴大陸港澳地區都必須要事先經過核准，是吧？這是陸委會的意思嘛？所以人事行政總處有配合頒布類似一個行政指導……"],["沈副主任委員有忠：據我瞭解應該不是全部的公務人員。"],["翁委員曉玲：所以是指高階的嗎？"],["沈副主任委員有忠：特定職等以上，這應該是一貫以來的做法。"],["翁委員曉玲：沈副主委，您今天這樣說，我很支持您的看法，按照兩岸人民關係條例的規定，基本上是十職等以上的文官才會受到相當程度的約束，十職等以下的公教人員或者是警檢等等，他們基本上是不會受到約束的，除非說有涉及到什麼國家機密等等這些問題。"],["沈副主任委員有忠：是。"],["翁委員曉玲：可是你看人事行政總處現在發布的規則是不分職等的，不管是工友層級的、警衛層級的或是一般的老師，現在出國都要經過核准。"],["沈副主任委員有忠：在十職等以下，請假之後應該是要經過他的主管機關的同意，比如說剛剛您提到的像是在學校裡面……"],["翁委員曉玲：對，如果真的回歸到各個學校去辦理也就罷了，但是現在不是，是人事行政總處發布的命令，那麼我認為這個基本上已經違反法律保留原則了。今天沈副主委的意思如果是說是十職等以上才會受到約束，或者說剛剛講十職等以下而可能涉及到國家安全的業務，或是可能會有涉及到機密業務，需要受到管制，本席予以贊同，可是如果不分職等、不分教師的工作性質，完全都要受到這項行政命令、這項辦法高度約束的話，我認為是極不合理的，所以也請沈副主委回去之後再了解一下。"],["沈副主任委員有忠：我可以向委員報告一下嗎？基本上，十職等以下者只需要經過請假，且是由主管機關，不是由中央機關、不是由陸委會開聯審會，所以比如說……"],["翁委員曉玲：過去基本上是不需要，沒有因為服務機關……好，沒關係，這個議題我就反映給沈副主委知道，沈副主委先請回座。"],["沈副主任委員有忠：謝謝。"],["翁委員曉玲：接下來我想請顧部長。"],["顧部長立雄：翁委員好。"],["翁委員曉玲：我今天想請教顧部長兩個議題，第一，上個星期立法院舉辦了有關女性教召制度配套措施的討論，當時本席因為擔任召委，所以來不及提出我的問題，今天想進一步向部長反映。我們知道其實現在國防部已經著手修正陸海空軍軍官士官服役條例以及志願士兵服役條例，未來準備將女性後備軍人納入後備役管理及教育召集制度。針對教召制度，本席基本上是同意支持的，可是在這裡要提醒，為什麼當時會有女性軍人提前退伍？原因可能是結婚、生育或照顧幼兒，所以她們就只能提前退伍。可是按照國防部現在的修法方向，未來退伍12年內都可能被教育召集、而且整個教召時間拉長到14天的話，對於一些女性後備軍人來說可能會產生一些不利影響，因為會影響她的家庭照顧。更何況在現行兵役法第四十三條裡，免除教育召集的情形包括患病、家庭重大事故、學生、民意代表在會期中、出國、服刑等原因，幼兒照顧、產後育兒或具主要照顧者身分基本上沒有列入可以排除、免除或延期召集的法定事由。所以更重要的是不是檢討現在的兵役法？或者未來有沒有可能也把這些事由納入排除教召的範圍？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，第四十三條大概有兩款可能與委員講的有關，第一是家庭發生重大事故必須本人處理，這是一種狀況。另外一個狀況是第八款：其他因特殊事由而無法應召者，譬如說分娩、流產，或者需要照顧生重大疾病的血親等等。"],["翁委員曉玲：本席提出來是因為育兒並沒有明列在事由裡面，所以建議國防部就這部分提出修法，可以嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：需要照顧未成年子女應該屬於核免時會考量的事由，也就是在範圍之內。"],["翁委員曉玲：我是希望未來能夠明文化，真的讓這些女性後備軍人適用，如果她們家裡還有年幼的小孩、例如12歲以下，至少要給她們足夠時間可以在家裡照顧。由於現在教召一下子14天，如果有比較擔心的問題，一定會影響家庭。"],["顧部長立雄：如果配偶同時……配偶當然不可能同時被教召，特別是還有未成年子女時。"],["翁委員曉玲：萬一是單親呢？"],["顧部長立雄：如果配偶只有一邊有未成年子女的話，我們會看狀況考量納入。"],["翁委員曉玲：總之，本席希望在法律沒有明定的情況下多考慮女性後備軍人的家庭權益問題，一併考慮。"],["顧部長立雄：對，特別是如果未滿4歲……"],["翁委員曉玲：接下來，我還有第二個問題很快地問一下。關於提前退伍賠償這件事，根據國防部自己的統計，110年到114年總共有6,315位官兵申請提前退伍，其中有4,267人依法應負賠償責任，賠償總金額高達九億兩千多萬，到目前為止，還有將近五億九千多萬待管制。也就是說，其實提前退伍的軍人要賠償，但目前有些人賠償金額還沒繳完。沒有繳完最重要的原因是現行制度竟然准許他們分期付款、分期繳納賠償金，且高達60期！這部分其實已經造成軍隊實務管考工作人員的負擔，因為他們要不斷地盯到底誰繳錢、誰沒繳錢，導致相關承辦人員有點像軍隊裡的討債單位，要不斷催促哪些人沒有繳。","我認為分60期繳納的規定應該檢討，如果提前退伍的軍人本身就有財力，為什麼要允許他分60期？除非他的賠償金額很高。如果賠償金額並不是很高，為什麼要同意他將賠償分60期繳納、甚至可以延長到70期？本席辦公室已經接到滿多軍中同仁反映，這已經造成他們工作上的負擔，所以本席希望部長是不是可以檢討這個制度？"],["顧部長立雄：我們會研議在基層從事這樣的工作時如何簡化，或者透過一些智慧化的協助，讓基層負擔減輕。"],["翁委員曉玲：本席具體建議，譬如說還是要區分賠償金額，依照額度定分期繳納的期數。如果只要賠償20萬元，你也允許他分60期，這樣就會造成大家的負擔嘛！對於賠償20萬、40萬、50萬、50萬以上或100萬以上者也許可以有不同的分期繳納制度，重要的是我們不希望讓軍隊基層幹部變成討債人員。他們必須不斷去催、去盯到底哪個人有繳納、哪個人沒有繳納，這已經造成實務上承辦單位的工作負擔，希望國防部能就這部分改善。"],["顧部長立雄：好，我再了解。我想應該可以透過一些管理系統將負擔減到最低。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，是不是可以請部長給我一份報告？關於提前退伍賠償的案件數、賠償與追討狀況，在兩個禮拜之內給我一份報告。"],["顧部長立雄：好，我了解一下。"],["翁委員曉玲：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝翁曉玲委員。","接下來請鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員，鄭正鈐委員不在。","再來請林倩綺委員、林倩綺委員，林倩綺委員不在。","接下來請郭昱晴委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":386,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-35-24","speakers":["陳冠廷","陳俊宇","羅美玲","陳永康","王定宇","林楚茵","陳雪生","馬文君","王義川","沈伯洋","牛煦庭","王安祥","許忠信","鍾佳濱","黃建賓","賴士葆","翁曉玲","郭昱晴","黃仁","邱志偉"],"page_start":313,"meetingDate":["2026-07-01"],"gazette_id":"1155601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155601_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第24次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部、外交部、海洋委員會海巡署、大陸委員會報告「中國船舶常態化巡弋我國海域之因\n應作為」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1155601_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}