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那我們有請石部長好 有請石部長好就委員長是 部長我想跟你請教呢就是電子菸相關修法的一些問題好 那我想請教一件事就是說當然之前電子菸本來只處罰使用那當然就是因為它的載具依託米子附著於上"},{"start":22.671,"end":27.514,"text":"到處橫行我們要杜絕這個問題所以現在就是連持有這個行為他一樣都給他網羅進來了那當然如果持有的話從法律修正通過之後我們就會被處以3萬到10萬的罰款那現在有個問題就是說來部長看一下那個PPT就是電子煙跟加熱煙他的外觀"},{"start":44.004,"end":65.721,"text":"其實有一個高度相似性所以民眾可能難以區分那如果今天持有電子煙已經變成要處以3到10萬的罰款但是如果是持有合法的加熱煙當然就是不用罰這樣子那會不會民眾沒有辦法辨識以至於誤觸法網那我舉一個例子如果我的朋友送我一個禮物"},{"start":67.182,"end":91.762,"text":"我打開來看其實他送的是電子煙但是我的辨識能力辨識出來的是加熱煙那這個東西他也收受了那現在就是在自己的這個支配的範圍之內其實就是持有那請問這樣如果按照我們法律的依據他不就是持有啊如果被破獲的話啊不就是要除以3萬到10萬的罰款那部長知道我想凸顯的問題是什麼嗎"},{"start":93.323,"end":115.569,"text":"就是民眾辨識的能力請問民眾有足夠的辨識能力嗎這個我們會盡量來加大這個宣導啦因為加熱煙它基本上是有煙柱嘛它要吸的時候它還是有像一個傳統香煙一樣有那個煙槽啦那個電子煙其實是沒有煙槽"},{"start":116.229,"end":134.325,"text":"他那個就是內部的構造內部的構造也許有一些差異但是其實有些人我們每天都在關心這個新聞我們會知道他內部差異但是有一些民眾他其實未必會掌握到這麼精細的資訊跟專業資訊所以部長你剛剛也提到了嘛就是教育宣導嘛"},{"start":134.966,"end":151.76,"text":"所以可能能不能有一些辨識的方法辨識的指引然後透過一些文宣品透過一些那個影片的方式來加強民眾的認知我們在製造各式的素材包含對校園的然後對一般大眾的我們來"},{"start":154.002,"end":182.175,"text":"多元的管道好那另外想請教一件事那我想電子菸當然現在持有已經變成要處罰了那這個37條之一的罰罰者如果上路之後我相信當然就是要按照3到10萬這樣的遊戲規則來處理那我也注意到說這個衛福部這邊有給予一個月的懸導期就是如果法律正式上路之後在一個月之內如果還持有的話那只沒入"},{"start":182.935,"end":203.844,"text":"不處以罰緩但是換言之呢一個月之後如果持有的話季末路也處以罰緩嘛那我現在的問題就是在我解讀上一個月就是過渡期一個月就是宣導期那一個月的宣導期會不會太少因為畢竟不是每個人都在注意社會脈動注意新聞輿情注意修法的結果一個月的這個宣導期會不會太短"},{"start":204.821,"end":224.162,"text":"好 這個屆時在主條的時候我們大家可以來討論不過我們現在已經開始在準備開始宣導 那然後我們也在跟 好像這個禮拜嘛會跟縣市 明天就會跟衛生局來討論怎麼開始設點來回收啦 因為我們也不希望他亂丟啦"},{"start":226.644,"end":246.113,"text":"所以我們現在明天會跟衛生局來討論我們就會開始來想辦法看怎麼開始讓他現在就可以開始做不用等到法律通過現在就可以開始來宣導所以您的意思就是說一個月的宣導期可以再往前拉現在其實就可以宣導"},{"start":247.233,"end":265.363,"text":"那當然再評估一下一個月因為畢竟持有跟持有已經變成要處罰了嗎那有可能那個觀念上沒有接受到新資訊有可能查職好理事之前你就變成要被處以三萬的罰款所以思考一個月的長度讓民眾對於法規的適應期能夠有足夠的時間"},{"start":266.864,"end":275.127,"text":"來那接著第三個問題呢就是想要請教部長因為現在入境的旅客嘛他如果攜帶電子菸的話那現在電子菸當然持有他就會處罰那25條之二就是櫃部提出來的這個草案他有區分如果是少量的"},{"start":282.45,"end":304.651,"text":"少量的就是行政法200到100萬那如果是非少量的那就是刑事責任就是25條之一的規定刑事責任那現在重點來了少量跟非少量的區別這裡的建立出來的標準就是5條跟不多於500克那現在重點來了就是你現在在海關剛其實有委員提到"},{"start":305.592,"end":308.613,"text":"就是我們這些查緝人員他有辦法辨識這個電子菸跟加熱菸的區別嗎這是第一個問題因為他們其實外觀長得都一樣那當然也許查緝的人員執法的人員他們會有未來的專業訓練也許也說不定"},{"start":324.278,"end":353.058,"text":"那現在重點來的就是說好第一他們有沒有辨識的能力第二就是說好即使他們有辨識的能力剛委員也有提出來他的體積非常的小那我們來看一下這個行李箱裡頭一大堆東西那這麼小的這個電子菸怎麼這樣子大海撈針或者是把它定位出來這是我們的疑問那再來就是國門其實人流非常的多那如果真的要雷力風行的來貫徹這樣的一個條文的話海關有沒有足夠的量能不管是在人力上或設備上"},{"start":354.155,"end":378.603,"text":"好跟委員說明當然我們會加大這個宣導避免國人觸法啦不過目前在海關的部分電子煙就是已經是違法現在就在查了那第二個呢加熱煙其實是我們的在陰害防治法裡面叫做指定煙品所以我們指定煙品我們沒有核准的那個也是違法啦所以幾乎在海關呢這兩類都是一起查的"},{"start":378.803,"end":397.659,"text":"所以目前已經在做了那我們也有跟這個關務署有討論過那它體積小 目前有在做那查緝上的有困難度嗎它怎麼就是先用X光先掃描讓它有疑似相近的才打開心理就這樣所以初賽是用X光然後打開"},{"start":399.821,"end":417.348,"text":"然後如果他行李箱裡頭有例如說5隻我們完全有找出來的能力嗎還是說會肉東肉西5隻變4隻因為如果你有一隻被掃到他就會被打開然後做完整的檢查所以體積小如果這樣翻箱倒櫃體積小是沒問題的"},{"start":418.909,"end":435.56,"text":"可以可以因為我們台灣的同仁都很是請說明一下因為這個差資好理失之千里啦五支的話呢其實就是20到100萬的罰款那如果是超過五支的話就是25條之一就是一個刑事責任這樣所以差資好理失之千里啦"},{"start":437,"end":463.937,"text":"報告委員在電子煙跟加熱煙的部分其實電子煙我們從107年就開始查緝了其實我們都有做教育訓練如何區別電子煙跟加熱煙然後哪些是屬於那個健康風險評估過的這個我們都有做教育訓練所以請委員放心那剛才講到說如果你查到一支的話那當然我們就會看全部開箱去搜索說是不是還有其他的煙品沒有 有攜帶這樣子"},{"start":466.298,"end":486.666,"text":"所以就是幾支都有辦法精確的掌握嗎因為以前是還沒有這個什麼五支行政法然後六支刑事責任那現在其實真的一支支差有可能法律效果差支好理 失支牽理所以這方面我們是不是可以匯後給我們一個你們有能力查緝的一個說明"},{"start":488.507,"end":494.652,"text":"好那這個再來呢請問一下第四個問題就是說當然我們還是有興趣的在來討論25條之二就是說如果呢你第一次被查緝到少量的那處理方式就是行政法除以20萬到100萬但是呢你們的第二項提到說如果呢一年內再犯一年內再犯的話就會是一個刑事責任那我現在這邊有一個圖我很好奇的來請問部長"},{"start":517.429,"end":534.925,"text":"你第一次在海關被查到然後呢這個旅客他所接受到的一個結果他就是行政裁罰那我想這行政裁罰裁罰的機關是衛生局那這些資料也在衛生局那現在呢這個旅客如果一年內呢他又再犯了"},{"start":535.526,"end":551.221,"text":"那在犯的當下呢請問一下你們有辦法去掌握到他的前案紀錄嗎因為如果他前案紀錄的掌握你們才有辦法移送檢調嘛那請問這前案紀錄的掌握如何掌握有資料的勾結系統存在嗎 請說明"},{"start":552.895,"end":577.929,"text":"我們應該跟這個關務署這邊會有這個資料的交換主要的紀錄還是會在我們的衛生系統裡面但是不是啊那個當下啊例如說這個當下他已經在翻箱倒櫃了結果發現就是有五條那五條呢他已經不是單純的行政裁罰了他已經是一個刑事責任了那如果你們沒有前面資料的掌握請問當下你們怎麼做出決定要怎麼處理這個個案"},{"start":583.271,"end":592.457,"text":"因為你們的第二項就提到說在海關啊那如果一年內再犯因為這就是海關第一線發現的嘛一年內再犯那就是一個刑事責任他是移送啊"},{"start":593.308,"end":621.608,"text":"阿不是 你們當下怎麼知道他有前案我說當下在檢查的時候你們不不不 他那個公務署查到的他是先把這個案子就移送還是到當地衛生局去開罰的所以他的系統還是在衛生局送到當地衛生局 但是衛生局怎麼開罰因為按照你們的法條他不是行政法按照你們的法條他一年內再報他已經是一個如果涉及到行駛的話就會移送減掉所以不需要 意思聽起來不需要系統的勾結"},{"start":623.158,"end":651.567,"text":"還是有問你第二次嘛第二次才會涉及到刑事嘛所以衛生局發現這個是第二次的他就移送到檢調了我知道但我的意思是在海關的當下他在判斷這是第幾次的時候如果你沒有系統的勾結你怎麼會知道海關是直接先移送衛生局所以不需要掌握前端紀錄他直接下一個動作就是移送衛生局然後就交給衛生局再做進一步的判斷他有系統裡面有如果他這個是第一次那他就開罰他"},{"start":652.908,"end":672.53,"text":"發單就給他如果他是第二次那就移送那現在一個問題就是說那這個需不需要把它落於條文例如說前向請醒前向請醒經那個關務署通知衛生局由衛生局就是涉及刑事責任由關務署因為這個法有一個主管機關嘛"},{"start":673.451,"end":698.123,"text":"還有中央主管機關跟地方主管機關地方主管機關是衛生局所以它的開罰我們這裡所有的行政法的開立是由地方衛生主管機關所以我現在理解了就是交給地方衛生局去判斷交給地方衛生局去判斷好那我再問一個問題就是說一年內再犯總刑事責任那如果這個人他不是一年內再犯嗎他是兩年再犯"},{"start":699.464,"end":704.493,"text":"請問他兩年他一年八個月拿了這個五支進來請問一下效果是什麼"},{"start":705.799,"end":735.299,"text":"就是已經超過一年以上嘛對那它的效果是什麼還是行政法還是行政法可是你們的立法理由是說因為第一次不知情國外合法國內非法他不知情所以給他一個空間給他一個再犯的空間再犯才能夠走到這個刑事責任問題是你們的立法理由跟你現在答案抵觸啊他如果兩年後再犯其實他已經不是再犯了那對於這樣的一個案例卻只是走行政法會不會有輕重失衡的問題這是我的疑問"},{"start":736.579,"end":760.548,"text":"我們當然在這個立法設計的時候考量的是說自用跟販售意圖啦如果量大那你就是有販售意圖所以我們把它當成是販售所以那個是刑事法那自用的部分我們認為五之以下你這個好像自用所以出犯的話行政法累犯的話再刑事但是這個時間內有剩一個期間就有點奇怪"},{"start":763.329,"end":787.308,"text":"所以有要討論,有要再研議一下嗎?因為會有這個漏洞,會有這個漏洞好,來那我們現在請惠福部一個月內提供資料就是這些辨識的指引,那剛剛部長也說了文宣品這些的那可能有民眾版,那還有專業版給這些執法人員使用的那還有就是邊際查緝的能力,到底那個量能的情形的這個現況還有未來要改進的地方"},{"start":788.008,"end":802.98,"text":"那當然這個勾結系統部長就覺得說不需要嘛因為就是移送給那個地方衛生局地方衛生局再根據他是第幾次然後再來做下一步的動作好 以上理解謝謝部長 謝謝好 謝謝邱委員好 謝謝邱委員的發言也謝謝各級官員的應答現在會請王育民"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:49:54+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-02T09:49:56.712000+08:00","text":"主席、各位委員，還有各位政府部門的同仁，大家好。","quality":0.15},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:49:56.712000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:49:57.352000+08:00","text":"有請石部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-02T09:49:57.352000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-02T09:50:00.996000+08:00","text":"有請石部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T09:50:00.996000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:50:01.717000+08:00","text":"邱委員早。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:50:02.037000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:50:06.982000+08:00","text":"部長，我想跟你請教電子煙修法相關的問題。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:50:07.742000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:50:19.193000+08:00","text":"我想請教一件事，之前電子煙本來只處罰使用，當然就是因為它的載具讓依脫咪酯附著於上、到處橫行，我們要杜絕這個問題，所以現在就是連持有的行為態樣都網羅進來了，從法律修正通過之後，如果持有就會被處以3萬到10萬的罰鍰。","quality":0.874},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:50:19.413000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:50:56.699000+08:00","text":"現在有一個問題，請部長看一下PPT，電子煙跟加熱菸的外觀其實有高度相似性，所以民眾可能難以區分，今天如果持有電子煙已經變成要處以3到10萬的罰鍰；如果是持有合法的加熱菸，當然就不用罰，這樣會不會讓民眾沒有辦法辨識，以致於誤觸法網？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:50:56.839000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:51:14.813000+08:00","text":"我舉一個例子，如果我的朋友送我一個禮物，他送的是電子煙，但是我打開來看，依我的辨識能力辨識出來的是加熱菸，這個東西我也收受了，現在就在自己的支配範圍之內，其實就是持有。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:51:16.935000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:51:19.297000+08:00","text":"請問如果按照法律的依據，這樣不就是持有？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:51:19.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:51:23.960000+08:00","text":"如果被破獲，不就是要處以3萬到10萬的罰鍰？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:51:24.821000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:51:25.762000+08:00","text":"部長知道我想凸顯的問題是什麼嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:51:27.323000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:51:33.685000+08:00","text":"就是民眾辨識的能力，請問民眾有足夠的辨識能力嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T09:51:33.685000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:51:48.869000+08:00","text":"我們會儘量加大宣導，因為加熱菸基本上有菸柱，要吸的時候還是像傳統香菸一樣有菸草，電子煙其實是沒有菸草的……","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:51:50.409000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:51:52.071000+08:00","text":"理解，那個是內部的構造……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T09:51:52.071000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-02T09:51:53.071000+08:00","text":"對，那是不一樣的，使用起來就知道。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:51:52.911000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:52:05.002000+08:00","text":"內部的構造也許有一些差異，因為我們每天都在關心這個新聞，所以我們會知道內部的差異，但是有一些民眾未必會掌握到這麼精細的資訊跟專業。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:52:06.063000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:52:18.614000+08:00","text":"部長剛剛也提到了，就是教育宣導，所以能不能有一些辨識的方法、辨識的指引，透過一些文宣品或影片的方式來加強民眾的認知？","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T09:52:19.295000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:52:25.760000+08:00","text":"好，我們來製造各式的素材，包含對校園及一般大眾，我們來……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:52:28.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:52:28.702000+08:00","text":"對，多元的管道。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:52:29.763000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:52:44.589000+08:00","text":"另外想請教一件事，現在持有電子煙已經變成要處罰了，第三十七條之一的罰則如果上路之後，我相信當然就要按照3到10萬這樣的遊戲規則來處理。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:52:45.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:53:10.361000+08:00","text":"我也注意到衛福部有給予1個月的宣導期，就是如果法律正式上路之後，在一個月之內如果還持有的話，只有沒入，不處以罰緩，但是換言之，一個月之後如果持有的話，既沒入也處以罰緩，我現在的問題就是，在我的解讀上，一個月就是過渡期，一個月就是宣導期，一個月的宣導期會不會太少？","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:53:10.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:53:17.824000+08:00","text":"因為畢竟不是每個人都在注意社會脈動、注意新聞輿情、注意修法的結果，一個月的宣導期會不會太短？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T09:53:18.821000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:53:38.142000+08:00","text":"好，屆時在逐條的時候，我們大家可以來討論，不過我們現在已經開始在整備、開始宣導，好像這個禮拜……明天我們就會跟縣市衛生局來討論，怎麼開始設點來回收，因為我們也不希望他亂丟啦！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:53:38.142000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-02T09:53:40.644000+08:00","text":"是，就如同菁徽委員剛說的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T09:53:40.644000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:53:56.331000+08:00","text":"一下子就亂丟造成環境的污染也不好，所以我們明天會跟衛生局來討論，我們就會開始來想辦法看怎麼開始讓它回收，現在就可以開始做，不用等到法律通過，現在就可以開始來宣導。","quality":0.747},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:53:56.331000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:54:00.113000+08:00","text":"對，所以您的意思就是說一個月的宣導期可以再往前拉，現在其實就可以宣導啦。對。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:54:01.773000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:54:19.363000+08:00","text":"當然再評估一下，就一個月，因為畢竟持有已經變成要處罰了，如果觀念上沒有接受到新資訊，有可能差之毫釐、失之千里，就變成要被處以三萬的罰鍰，所以思考一個月的長度，讓民眾對於法規的適應期能夠有足夠的時間。好。","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:54:21.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:55:00.812000+08:00","text":"接著第三個問題就是想要請教部長，因為現在入境的旅客如果攜帶電子煙的話，現在當然持有電子煙就會處罰，第二十五條之二就是貴部提出來的草案有區分如果是少量的就是行政罰，二十萬到一百萬，如果是非少量的就是刑事責任，就是第二十五條之一的規定，有刑事責任，然而少量跟非少量的區別，這裡建立出來的標準，就是五條跟不多於500克，現在重點來了，就是你現在在海關，剛剛其實有委員提到，我們這些查緝人員有辦法辨識電子煙跟加熱菸的區別嗎？","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:55:00.812000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:55:02.593000+08:00","text":"這是第一個問題，因為它們的外觀其實長得都一樣，當然也許查緝和執法的人員未來會有專業訓練，也許也說不定。","quality":0.851},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:55:18.438000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:55:35.570000+08:00","text":"但現在重點來了，第一、他們有沒有辨識的能力；第二，即使他們有辨識的能力，剛剛委員也有提出來，它的體積非常的小，我們來看一下這個行李箱裡頭一大堆東西，這麼小的電子煙怎麼大海撈針或者是把它定位出來？","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:55:35.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:55:37.071000+08:00","text":"這是我們的疑問。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:55:37.251000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:55:47.038000+08:00","text":"再來，其實國門的人流非常多，如果真的要雷厲風行來貫測這樣一個條文的話，海關有沒有足夠的量能，不管是在人力上或設備上？","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T09:55:48.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:55:59.639000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，當然我們會加大宣導，避免國人觸法，不過目前在海關的部分，電子煙已經是違法，現在就在查了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T09:56:00.319000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:56:09.022000+08:00","text":"第二個，加熱菸其實在菸害防制法裡面叫做指定菸品，所以指定菸品我們沒有核准的，那個也是違法。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:56:09.022000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-02T09:56:10.022000+08:00","text":"理解、知道。","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T09:56:09.362000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:56:18.108000+08:00","text":"所以幾乎在海關這兩類都是一起查的，目前已經在做了，我們也有跟關務署討論過。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:56:18.248000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:56:22.291000+08:00","text":"它體積小，目前有在做，查緝上有困難度嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T09:56:22.631000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:56:28.777000+08:00","text":"他就是先用X光先掃描，有疑似相近的才打開。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:56:30.138000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:56:31.659000+08:00","text":"所以初篩是用X光，然後打開？對、對。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:56:34.261000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:56:40.024000+08:00","text":"如果他的行李箱裡頭例如有5支，你們有完全找出來的能力嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:56:40.024000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:56:42.865000+08:00","text":"還是會漏東漏西，5支變4支？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T09:56:42.865000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:56:48.207000+08:00","text":"因為如果有一支被掃到，它就會被打開，做完整的檢查。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:56:50.108000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:56:51.328000+08:00","text":"完整的檢查，如果這樣翻箱倒櫃，體積小是沒問題的？","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T09:56:52.909000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:56:56.511000+08:00","text":"可以，我們海關的同仁都很優秀。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:56:56.812000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:57:09.359000+08:00","text":"是，請說明一下，因為這個差之毫釐，失之千里，5支的話，其實就是二十到一百萬的罰鍰，如果是超過5支的話，第二十五條之一就是刑事責任，所以差之毫釐，失之千里。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"郭組長寬淵","start":"2026-07-02T09:57:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:57:37.917000+08:00","text":"報告委員，在電子煙和加熱菸的部分，其實我們從107年就開始查緝電子煙，我們都有做教育訓練，如何區別電子煙跟加熱菸，哪些是屬於健康風險評估過的，這個我們都有做教育訓練，所以請委員放心，剛才講到如果你查到一支的話，當然我們就會全部開箱去搜索是不是還有攜帶其他的菸品這樣子，以上簡要說明。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:57:40.298000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:57:42.799000+08:00","text":"所以幾支都有辦法精確的掌握嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:57:42.799000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:57:52.763000+08:00","text":"因為以前是還沒有規定5支是行政罰，6支是刑事責任，現在其實真的一支之差，法律效果有可能差之毫釐、失之千里。是。","quality":0.66},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:57:54.524000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:58:00.646000+08:00","text":"對啊，所以這方面是不是可以會後給我們一個你們有能力查緝的說明？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"郭組長寬淵","start":"2026-07-02T09:58:00.646000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-02T09:58:02.507000+08:00","text":"OK，沒有問題。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:58:02.507000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:58:55.432000+08:00","text":"好，再來請問一下第四個問題，當然我們還是有興趣來討論第二十五條之二，如果你第一次被查緝到少量的，處理方式就是行政罰，處以二十萬到一百萬，但是你們的第二項提到如果一年內再犯的話，就會是刑事責任，我現在這邊有一個圖，我很好奇的來請問部長，如果這個旅客第一次在海關被查到，然後他所接受到的結果就是行政裁罰，我想這個行政裁罰的機關是衛生局，這些資料也在衛生局，如果現在這個旅客一年內又再犯了，再犯的當下，請問一下，你們有辦法去掌握到他的前案紀錄嗎？","quality":0.901},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:58:55.432000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:59:02.358000+08:00","text":"因為有前案紀錄的掌握，你們才有辦法移送檢調，請問這前案紀錄如何掌握？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:59:03.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:59:05.201000+08:00","text":"資料的勾稽系統存在嗎？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:59:05.201000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:59:05.201000+08:00","text":"請說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T09:59:06.895000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:59:16+08:00","text":"我們應該跟關務署這邊會有資料的交換，主要的紀錄還是會在我們的衛生系統裡面。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:59:16.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:59:31.448000+08:00","text":"對，但是在那個當下，例如當下他已經在翻箱倒櫃了，結果發現就是有5條，有5條就已經不是單純的行政裁罰，就已經是一個刑事責任了，如果你們沒有前面資料的掌握，請問當下你們怎麼做出決定？","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:59:31.468000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:59:31.909000+08:00","text":"要怎麼處理這個個案？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:59:37.271000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:59:45.216000+08:00","text":"因為你們的第二項就提到在海關如果一年內再犯，因為這就是海關在第一線發現的，而一年內再犯就是刑事責任。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T09:59:45.716000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:59:46.437000+08:00","text":"他是移送啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:59:47.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:59:49.990000+08:00","text":"不是，你們當下怎麼知道他有前案？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T09:59:50.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T09:59:51.691000+08:00","text":"我說當下在檢查的時候……","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T09:59:52.352000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T10:00:02.219000+08:00","text":"不、不、不，關務署查到的，是先把這個案子移送，還是到當地衛生局去開罰的，所以他的系統還是在衛生局……","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T10:00:02.359000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T10:00:04.320000+08:00","text":"送到當地衛生局，但是衛生局怎麼開罰？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T10:00:04.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T10:00:09.784000+08:00","text":"因為按照你們的法條，它不是行政罰，按照你們的法條，他一年內再犯已經是一個……","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T10:00:09.784000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T10:00:11.085000+08:00","text":"如果涉及到刑事的話就會移送檢調。","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T10:00:12.866000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T10:00:15.588000+08:00","text":"所以意思聽起來不需要系統的勾稽？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T10:00:17.158000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T10:00:24.680000+08:00","text":"我們還是有，因為你第二次才會涉及到刑事，所以衛生局發現這個是第二次的，他就移送到檢調了。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T10:00:25.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T10:00:33.623000+08:00","text":"對，我知道，但我的意思是在海關的當下，他在判斷這是第幾次的時候，如果沒有系統的勾稽，你怎麼會知道？","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T10:00:33.763000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T10:00:35.464000+08:00","text":"不會，海關是直接先移送衛生局。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T10:00:36.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T10:00:39.685000+08:00","text":"所以不需要掌握前案紀錄，他直接下一個動作就是移送衛生局？對、對。","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T10:00:39.705000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T10:00:42.426000+08:00","text":"然後就交給衛生局，再做進一步的判斷。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T10:00:42.686000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T10:00:49.691000+08:00","text":"衛生局的系統裡面有，如果他是第一次，就開罰他，罰單就給他，如果他是第二次，那就移送。","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T10:00:50.172000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T10:00:53.295000+08:00","text":"好，現在一個問題就是，這個需不需要把它落在條文？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T10:00:53.435000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T10:01:03.647000+08:00","text":"例如前項情形經關務署通知衛生局，由衛生局……就是涉及刑事責任由關務署……","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T10:01:04.608000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T10:01:18.036000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，因為這個法有一個主管機關，有中央主管機關跟地方主管機關，所以地方主管機關是衛生局，有關他的開罰，我們這裡所有的行政罰的開立是由地方衛生主管機關。","quality":0.847},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T10:01:18.036000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T10:01:22.358000+08:00","text":"了解，所以我現在理解了，就是交給地方衛生局去判斷。對。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T10:01:23.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T10:01:38.493000+08:00","text":"好，我再問一個問題，一年內再犯走刑事責任，如果這個人不是一年內再犯，是兩年再犯，請問他1年8個月後拿了5支進來，請問一下效果是什麼？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T10:01:39.799000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T10:01:41.100000+08:00","text":"就是已經超過一年以上。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T10:01:42.081000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T10:01:43.121000+08:00","text":"對，它的效果什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T10:01:43.121000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T10:01:43.481000+08:00","text":"還是行政罰，到現在的設計。","quality":0.364},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T10:01:44.422000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T10:01:57.211000+08:00","text":"還是行政罰，可是你們的立法理由是說因為第一次不知情，國外合法、國內非法，他不知情，所以給他一個空間，再犯才能走到刑事責任。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T10:01:58.091000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T10:02:08.918000+08:00","text":"問題是你們的立法理由跟你現在的答案牴觸，他如果兩年後再犯，其實他已經不是再犯了，對於這樣的一個案例，卻只是走行政罰會不會有輕重失衡的問題？","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T10:02:08.918000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T10:02:09.299000+08:00","text":"這是我的疑問。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T10:02:10.579000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T10:02:23.344000+08:00","text":"我們當然在立法設計的時候考量的是自用跟販售意圖，如果量大，你就是有販售意圖，所以我們把它當成是販售，所以那個是刑事罰。對。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T10:02:24.224000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T10:02:32.447000+08:00","text":"自用的部分，我們認為5支以下好像是自用，所以初犯的話行政罰，累犯的話再刑事，但是這個時間內，我們是用一年……","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T10:02:32.447000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T10:02:34.528000+08:00","text":"你們有設一個期間就有點奇怪。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T10:02:34.528000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-02T10:02:37.329000+08:00","text":"對，我懂，我們再來研究看看。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T10:02:37.329000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T10:02:41.973000+08:00","text":"所以也要再研議一下嗎？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T10:02:41.973000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-02T10:02:42.973000+08:00","text":"要進入逐條的時候，我們再……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T10:02:41.973000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T10:02:42.833000+08:00","text":"也要研議一下，因為會有這個漏洞。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T10:02:44.775000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T10:03:05.531000+08:00","text":"我們現在請衛福部一個月內提供資料，針對這些辨識的指引，剛剛部長也說到文宣品這些可能有民眾版，還有專業版給這些執法人員使用的，還有就是邊境查緝的能力，到底其量能的現況情形，還有未來要改進的地方，這個勾稽系統部長覺得不需要嘛？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T10:03:05.531000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-02T10:03:06.531000+08:00","text":"不用，因為只有一個……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T10:03:05.971000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T10:03:07.373000+08:00","text":"因為就是移送給……","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T10:03:08.193000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T10:03:08.894000+08:00","text":"對，地方衛生局。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T10:03:09.294000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T10:03:12.797000+08:00","text":"地方衛生局再根據他是第幾次，再來做下一步的動作。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T10:03:12.797000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-02T10:03:13.797000+08:00","text":"對、對、對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-07-02T10:03:13.397000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T10:03:15.019000+08:00","text":"好，以上理解，謝謝部長，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T10:03:15.179000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T10:03:15.579000+08:00","text":"謝謝邱委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-02T10:03:15.759000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T10:03:16.520000+08:00","text":"謝謝邱慧洳委員的發言，也謝謝各級官員的應答。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-02T10:03:17.020000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-02T10:03:20.162857+08:00","text":"下一位請王育敏委員發言。","quality":0.273}]},"gazette":{"lineno":651,"blocks":[["邱委員慧洳：（9時49分）主席、各位委員，還有各位政府部門的同仁，大家好。有請石部長。"],["主席：有請石部長。"],["石部長崇良：邱委員早。"],["邱委員慧洳：部長，我想跟你請教電子煙修法相關的問題。我想請教一件事，之前電子煙本來只處罰使用，當然就是因為它的載具讓依脫咪酯附著於上、到處橫行，我們要杜絕這個問題，所以現在就是連持有的行為態樣都網羅進來了，從法律修正通過之後，如果持有就會被處以3萬到10萬的罰鍰。","現在有一個問題，請部長看一下PPT，電子煙跟加熱菸的外觀其實有高度相似性，所以民眾可能難以區分，今天如果持有電子煙已經變成要處以3到10萬的罰鍰；如果是持有合法的加熱菸，當然就不用罰，這樣會不會讓民眾沒有辦法辨識，以致於誤觸法網？我舉一個例子，如果我的朋友送我一個禮物，他送的是電子煙，但是我打開來看，依我的辨識能力辨識出來的是加熱菸，這個東西我也收受了，現在就在自己的支配範圍之內，其實就是持有。請問如果按照法律的依據，這樣不就是持有？如果被破獲，不就是要處以3萬到10萬的罰鍰？部長知道我想凸顯的問題是什麼嗎？就是民眾辨識的能力，請問民眾有足夠的辨識能力嗎？"],["石部長崇良：我們會儘量加大宣導，因為加熱菸基本上有菸柱，要吸的時候還是像傳統香菸一樣有菸草，電子煙其實是沒有菸草的……"],["邱委員慧洳：理解，那個是內部的構造……"],["石部長崇良：對，那是不一樣的，使用起來就知道。"],["邱委員慧洳：內部的構造也許有一些差異，因為我們每天都在關心這個新聞，所以我們會知道內部的差異，但是有一些民眾未必會掌握到這麼精細的資訊跟專業。部長剛剛也提到了，就是教育宣導，所以能不能有一些辨識的方法、辨識的指引，透過一些文宣品或影片的方式來加強民眾的認知？"],["石部長崇良：好，我們來製造各式的素材，包含對校園及一般大眾，我們來……"],["邱委員慧洳：對，多元的管道。另外想請教一件事，現在持有電子煙已經變成要處罰了，第三十七條之一的罰則如果上路之後，我相信當然就要按照3到10萬這樣的遊戲規則來處理。我也注意到衛福部有給予1個月的宣導期，就是如果法律正式上路之後，在一個月之內如果還持有的話，只有沒入，不處以罰緩，但是換言之，一個月之後如果持有的話，既沒入也處以罰緩，我現在的問題就是，在我的解讀上，一個月就是過渡期，一個月就是宣導期，一個月的宣導期會不會太少？因為畢竟不是每個人都在注意社會脈動、注意新聞輿情、注意修法的結果，一個月的宣導期會不會太短？"],["石部長崇良：好，屆時在逐條的時候，我們大家可以來討論，不過我們現在已經開始在整備、開始宣導，好像這個禮拜……明天我們就會跟縣市衛生局來討論，怎麼開始設點來回收，因為我們也不希望他亂丟啦！"],["邱委員慧洳：是，就如同菁徽委員剛說的……"],["石部長崇良：一下子就亂丟造成環境的污染也不好，所以我們明天會跟衛生局來討論，我們就會開始來想辦法看怎麼開始讓它回收，現在就可以開始做，不用等到法律通過，現在就可以開始來宣導。"],["邱委員慧洳：對，所以您的意思就是說一個月的宣導期可以再往前拉，現在其實就可以宣導啦。"],["石部長崇良：對。"],["邱委員慧洳：當然再評估一下，就一個月，因為畢竟持有已經變成要處罰了，如果觀念上沒有接受到新資訊，有可能差之毫釐、失之千里，就變成要被處以三萬的罰鍰，所以思考一個月的長度，讓民眾對於法規的適應期能夠有足夠的時間。"],["石部長崇良：好。"],["邱委員慧洳：接著第三個問題就是想要請教部長，因為現在入境的旅客如果攜帶電子煙的話，現在當然持有電子煙就會處罰，第二十五條之二就是貴部提出來的草案有區分如果是少量的就是行政罰，二十萬到一百萬，如果是非少量的就是刑事責任，就是第二十五條之一的規定，有刑事責任，然而少量跟非少量的區別，這裡建立出來的標準，就是五條跟不多於500克，現在重點來了，就是你現在在海關，剛剛其實有委員提到，我們這些查緝人員有辦法辨識電子煙跟加熱菸的區別嗎？這是第一個問題，因為它們的外觀其實長得都一樣，當然也許查緝和執法的人員未來會有專業訓練，也許也說不定。","但現在重點來了，第一、他們有沒有辨識的能力；第二，即使他們有辨識的能力，剛剛委員也有提出來，它的體積非常的小，我們來看一下這個行李箱裡頭一大堆東西，這麼小的電子煙怎麼大海撈針或者是把它定位出來？這是我們的疑問。再來，其實國門的人流非常多，如果真的要雷厲風行來貫測這樣一個條文的話，海關有沒有足夠的量能，不管是在人力上或設備上？"],["石部長崇良：跟委員說明，當然我們會加大宣導，避免國人觸法，不過目前在海關的部分，電子煙已經是違法，現在就在查了。第二個，加熱菸其實在菸害防制法裡面叫做指定菸品，所以指定菸品我們沒有核准的，那個也是違法。"],["邱委員慧洳：理解、知道。"],["石部長崇良：所以幾乎在海關這兩類都是一起查的，目前已經在做了，我們也有跟關務署討論過。"],["邱委員慧洳：它體積小，目前有在做，查緝上有困難度嗎？"],["石部長崇良：他就是先用X光先掃描，有疑似相近的才打開。"],["邱委員慧洳：所以初篩是用X光，然後打開？"],["石部長崇良：對、對。"],["邱委員慧洳：如果他的行李箱裡頭例如有5支，你們有完全找出來的能力嗎？還是會漏東漏西，5支變4支？"],["石部長崇良：因為如果有一支被掃到，它就會被打開，做完整的檢查。"],["邱委員慧洳：完整的檢查，如果這樣翻箱倒櫃，體積小是沒問題的？"],["石部長崇良：可以，我們海關的同仁都很優秀。"],["邱委員慧洳：是，請說明一下，因為這個差之毫釐，失之千里，5支的話，其實就是二十到一百萬的罰鍰，如果是超過5支的話，第二十五條之一就是刑事責任，所以差之毫釐，失之千里。"],["郭組長寬淵：報告委員，在電子煙和加熱菸的部分，其實我們從107年就開始查緝電子煙，我們都有做教育訓練，如何區別電子煙跟加熱菸，哪些是屬於健康風險評估過的，這個我們都有做教育訓練，所以請委員放心，剛才講到如果你查到一支的話，當然我們就會全部開箱去搜索是不是還有攜帶其他的菸品這樣子，以上簡要說明。"],["邱委員慧洳：所以幾支都有辦法精確的掌握嗎？因為以前是還沒有規定5支是行政罰，6支是刑事責任，現在其實真的一支之差，法律效果有可能差之毫釐、失之千里。"],["郭組長寬淵：是。"],["邱委員慧洳：對啊，所以這方面是不是可以會後給我們一個你們有能力查緝的說明？"],["郭組長寬淵：OK，沒有問題。"],["邱委員慧洳：好，再來請問一下第四個問題，當然我們還是有興趣來討論第二十五條之二，如果你第一次被查緝到少量的，處理方式就是行政罰，處以二十萬到一百萬，但是你們的第二項提到如果一年內再犯的話，就會是刑事責任，我現在這邊有一個圖，我很好奇的來請問部長，如果這個旅客第一次在海關被查到，然後他所接受到的結果就是行政裁罰，我想這個行政裁罰的機關是衛生局，這些資料也在衛生局，如果現在這個旅客一年內又再犯了，再犯的當下，請問一下，你們有辦法去掌握到他的前案紀錄嗎？因為有前案紀錄的掌握，你們才有辦法移送檢調，請問這前案紀錄如何掌握？資料的勾稽系統存在嗎？請說明。"],["石部長崇良：我們應該跟關務署這邊會有資料的交換，主要的紀錄還是會在我們的衛生系統裡面。"],["邱委員慧洳：對，但是在那個當下，例如當下他已經在翻箱倒櫃了，結果發現就是有5條，有5條就已經不是單純的行政裁罰，就已經是一個刑事責任了，如果你們沒有前面資料的掌握，請問當下你們怎麼做出決定？要怎麼處理這個個案？因為你們的第二項就提到在海關如果一年內再犯，因為這就是海關在第一線發現的，而一年內再犯就是刑事責任。"],["石部長崇良：他是移送啊！"],["邱委員慧洳：不是，你們當下怎麼知道他有前案？我說當下在檢查的時候……"],["石部長崇良：不、不、不，關務署查到的，是先把這個案子移送，還是到當地衛生局去開罰的，所以他的系統還是在衛生局……"],["邱委員慧洳：送到當地衛生局，但是衛生局怎麼開罰？因為按照你們的法條，它不是行政罰，按照你們的法條，他一年內再犯已經是一個……"],["石部長崇良：如果涉及到刑事的話就會移送檢調。"],["邱委員慧洳：所以意思聽起來不需要系統的勾稽？"],["石部長崇良：我們還是有，因為你第二次才會涉及到刑事，所以衛生局發現這個是第二次的，他就移送到檢調了。"],["邱委員慧洳：對，我知道，但我的意思是在海關的當下，他在判斷這是第幾次的時候，如果沒有系統的勾稽，你怎麼會知道？"],["石部長崇良：不會，海關是直接先移送衛生局。"],["邱委員慧洳：所以不需要掌握前案紀錄，他直接下一個動作就是移送衛生局？"],["石部長崇良：對、對。"],["邱委員慧洳：然後就交給衛生局，再做進一步的判斷。"],["石部長崇良：衛生局的系統裡面有，如果他是第一次，就開罰他，罰單就給他，如果他是第二次，那就移送。"],["邱委員慧洳：好，現在一個問題就是，這個需不需要把它落在條文？例如前項情形經關務署通知衛生局，由衛生局……就是涉及刑事責任由關務署……"],["石部長崇良：跟委員說明，因為這個法有一個主管機關，有中央主管機關跟地方主管機關，所以地方主管機關是衛生局，有關他的開罰，我們這裡所有的行政罰的開立是由地方衛生主管機關。"],["邱委員慧洳：了解，所以我現在理解了，就是交給地方衛生局去判斷。"],["石部長崇良：對。"],["邱委員慧洳：好，我再問一個問題，一年內再犯走刑事責任，如果這個人不是一年內再犯，是兩年再犯，請問他1年8個月後拿了5支進來，請問一下效果是什麼？"],["石部長崇良：就是已經超過一年以上。"],["邱委員慧洳：對，它的效果什麼？"],["石部長崇良：還是行政罰，到現在的設計。"],["邱委員慧洳：還是行政罰，可是你們的立法理由是說因為第一次不知情，國外合法、國內非法，他不知情，所以給他一個空間，再犯才能走到刑事責任。問題是你們的立法理由跟你現在的答案牴觸，他如果兩年後再犯，其實他已經不是再犯了，對於這樣的一個案例，卻只是走行政罰會不會有輕重失衡的問題？這是我的疑問。"],["石部長崇良：我們當然在立法設計的時候考量的是自用跟販售意圖，如果量大，你就是有販售意圖，所以我們把它當成是販售，所以那個是刑事罰。"],["邱委員慧洳：對。"],["石部長崇良：自用的部分，我們認為5支以下好像是自用，所以初犯的話行政罰，累犯的話再刑事，但是這個時間內，我們是用一年……"],["邱委員慧洳：你們有設一個期間就有點奇怪。"],["石部長崇良：對，我懂，我們再來研究看看。"],["邱委員慧洳：所以也要再研議一下嗎？"],["石部長崇良：要進入逐條的時候，我們再……"],["邱委員慧洳：也要研議一下，因為會有這個漏洞。我們現在請衛福部一個月內提供資料，針對這些辨識的指引，剛剛部長也說到文宣品這些可能有民眾版，還有專業版給這些執法人員使用的，還有就是邊境查緝的能力，到底其量能的現況情形，還有未來要改進的地方，這個勾稽系統部長覺得不需要嘛？"],["石部長崇良：不用，因為只有一個……"],["邱委員慧洳：因為就是移送給……"],["石部長崇良：對，地方衛生局。"],["邱委員慧洳：地方衛生局再根據他是第幾次，再來做下一步的動作。"],["石部長崇良：對、對、對。"],["邱委員慧洳：好，以上理解，謝謝部長，謝謝。"],["石部長崇良：謝謝邱委員。"],["主席：謝謝邱慧洳委員的發言，也謝謝各級官員的應答。","下一位請王育敏委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":248,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-26-17","speakers":["林月琴","王正旭","王育敏","林倩綺","陳菁徽","邱慧洳","邱鎮軍","林淑芬","黃秀芳","涂權吉","盧縣一","劉建國","蘇清泉","許忠信","張雅琳","傅崐萁","陳冠廷","廖偉翔","楊曜","陳瑩","游顥"],"page_start":161,"meetingDate":["2026-07-02"],"gazette_id":"1155701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155701_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、委員徐巧芯等19人擬具「菸害防制法第二十六條條文修正草案」案、二、委員黃健豪等\n17人擬具「菸害防制法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、三、委員羅智強等17人擬具「菸害防制法\n第二十六條條文修正草案」案、四、委員羅智強等 17 人擬具「菸害防制法第四十條條文修正草\n案」案、五、委員吳宗憲等17人擬具「菸害防制法第四條條文修正草案」案、六、委員陳秀寳等\n20人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案、七、委員林月琴等22人擬具「菸害防制法部分條\n文修正草案」案、八、委員王育敏等20人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案、九、委員呂\n玉玲等16人擬具「菸害防制法增訂第七條之一條文草案」案、十、委員邱若華等17人擬具「菸害\n防制法第三條及第十五條條文修正草案」案、十一、委員陳超明等31人擬具「菸害防制法部分條\n文修正草案」案、十二、委員王義川等17人擬具「菸害防制法第三十二條及第四十條條文修正草\n案」案、十三、委員林倩綺等22人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案、十四、委員陳菁徽\n等21人擬具「菸害防制法第十五條條文修正草案」案、十五、委員林思銘等20人擬具「菸害防制\n法部分條文修正草案」案、十六、委員邱鎮軍等20人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案、\n十七、委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1155701_00011"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}