{"error":false,"id":["170258"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170258,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170258","日期":"2026-07-02","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-26-17","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":17,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-07-02T11:56:25+08:00","結束時間":"2026-07-02T12:12:42+08:00","影片長度":"00:16:17","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cc5c88b044d5f1e01bb502baa943b0cbc206a561727bd8a322fd377cd8fd89fd1027fd842694b5725ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蘇清泉","委員發言時間":"11:56:25 - 12:12:42","會議時間":"2026-07-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：審查\n一、委員徐巧芯等19人擬具「菸害防制法第二十六條條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員黃健豪等17人擬具「菸害防制法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員羅智強等17人擬具「菸害防制法第二十六條條文修正草案」案。\n四、委員羅智強等17人擬具「菸害防制法第四十條條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員吳宗憲等17人擬具「菸害防制法第四條條文修正草案」案。\n六、委員陳秀寳等20人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。\n七、委員林月琴等22人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。\n八、委員王育敏等20人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。\n九、委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「菸害防制法增訂第七條之一條文草案」案。\n十、委員邱若華等17人擬具「菸害防制法第三條及第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、委員陳超明等31人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十二、委員王義川等17人擬具「菸害防制法第三十二條及第四十條條文修正草案」案。\n十三、委員林倩綺等22人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、委員陳菁徽等21人擬具「菸害防制法第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n十五、委員林思銘等20人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、委員邱鎮軍等20人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十七、委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【僅詢答】【第十二至十七案，如經復議則不予審查】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"蘇委員清泉","start":5.71784375,"end":7.87784375,"speaker_score":0.948},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"鄭專門委員文瑤","start":8.02971875,"end":8.92409375,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"蘇委員清泉","start":8.92409375,"end":11.30346875,"speaker_score":0.948},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"鄭專門委員文瑤","start":11.708468750000002,"end":12.484718750000003,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.484718750000003,"end":12.501593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"蘇委員清泉","start":13.480343750000003,"end":14.47596875,"speaker_score":0.948},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"蘇委員清泉","start":16.48409375,"end":17.46284375,"speaker_score":0.948},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"蘇委員清泉","start":17.766593750000002,"end":18.03659375,"speaker_score":0.948},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"蘇委員清泉","start":18.812843750000003,"end":19.90971875,"speaker_score":0.948},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"蘇委員清泉","start":21.52971875,"end":21.78284375,"speaker_score":0.948},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"蘇委員清泉","start":22.778468750000002,"end":23.38596875,"speaker_score":0.948},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"蘇委員清泉","start":25.410968750000002,"end":29.42721875,"speaker_score":0.948},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":29.42721875,"end":29.44409375,"speaker_score":0.807},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":29.64659375,"end":29.66346875,"speaker_score":0.807},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"蘇委員清泉","start":29.66346875,"end":30.28784375,"speaker_score":0.948},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":30.28784375,"end":30.32159375,"speaker_score":0.807},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"蘇委員清泉","start":31.97534375,"end":31.992218750000006,"speaker_score":0.948},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":31.992218750000006,"end":37.20659375,"speaker_score":0.807},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":38.62409375,"end":39.88971875,"speaker_score":0.807},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":40.37909375,"end":44.83409375,"speaker_score":0.807},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":45.44159375,"end":45.829718750000005,"speaker_score":0.807},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":46.42034375,"end":50.94284375,"speaker_score":0.807},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":51.533468750000004,"end":52.71471875,"speaker_score":0.807},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":52.984718750000006,"end":56.95034375,"speaker_score":0.807},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":58.97534375,"end":72.57659375,"speaker_score":0.807},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"鄭專門委員文瑤","start":63.227843750000005,"end":63.632843750000006,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":73.85909375,"end":75.98534375,"speaker_score":0.807},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":76.22159375000001,"end":76.52534375,"speaker_score":0.807},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":78.61784375,"end":78.97221875000001,"speaker_score":0.807},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":80.27159375000001,"end":81.53721875000001,"speaker_score":0.807},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":81.95909375000001,"end":82.46534375,"speaker_score":0.807},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"蘇委員清泉","start":82.46534375,"end":82.49909375,"speaker_score":0.948},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":82.49909375,"end":82.76909375000001,"speaker_score":0.807},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"蘇委員清泉","start":82.76909375000001,"end":82.81971875,"speaker_score":0.948},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"蘇委員清泉","start":85.11471875000001,"end":91.66221875000001,"speaker_score":0.948},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":89.67096875,"end":89.70471875000001,"speaker_score":0.807},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":89.72159375000001,"end":89.73846875000001,"speaker_score":0.807},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.73846875000001,"end":89.75534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":89.75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謝謝主席 我請部長還有國建署 沈署長沈署長來 蘇委員好柏中你吃飽沒有沒有署長有吃飽沒有來 我給你看看這對一支是加熱煙 對一支是電子煙"},{"start":33.186,"end":44.47,"text":"右邊過來第三支是電子煙右邊數來第三支是電子煙這個也是 都是電子煙第四支不太確定再來第五支也是電子煙"},{"start":59.929,"end":76.325,"text":"阿另外齁,這有的都會防冒啦,外型齁,外型雖然是煙斗喔,可是它有可能裡面有一個container齁,這個有可能也是電子煙喔,那個煙斗那個也是,那個也有可能是喔,加熱煙,對啦,對啦"},{"start":85.111,"end":96.962,"text":"只有那一支是加熱煙,除了用電子煙,做到像煙土那樣,也是電子煙,感覺又有中,你看這支是加熱煙,這支就是這支,合法合法。"},{"start":112.174,"end":132.632,"text":"這也合法喔,黑煙柱煙柱,你也知道煙柱喔雖然沒有說,但是我也有去買我來確認說,它到底是什麼你先看那大標示,你有沒有要說,會中口腔癌會中肺氣腫,會中人類癌症這樣要打這個現在說,這個上面也要打"},{"start":139.113,"end":164.539,"text":"對不對 每次都要打 盒子啦外包裝 外包裝 不是這個啦這不管打 打這個貼紙 他們如果把你貼到就沒有啊盒子啦 一直打起摸而已啊 對不對主席 你知道我在說什麼嗎 主席啊這 這是分 一般的 抽的菸就有所以大家今天 你在那邊噗嚨這 啊 東西也沒看到齁"},{"start":167.179,"end":193.599,"text":"好那現在比較麻煩的事就是這個加熱煙現在是可以嘛然後這個套進去然後就他就會一套進去他就會啟動他就會他就開始開始開始加熱然後才這樣煮這樣煮委員謀示範我都沒有吃飯我都沒有吃所以我要跟大家說"},{"start":196.603,"end":215.554,"text":"這個是這個還好啦齁阿我沒天公格齁但是反煙團體還把我幹掉齁抽煙不好抽煙絕對不好董事基金會要給我拍拍手那這個這個電子煙是很可怕喔所以裡面你要加什麼東西都可以喔"},{"start":219.733,"end":240.79,"text":"是一個一個endorendor看起來是標準的結果裡面是可以一個container裡面可以加哇 加的東西可多喔剛才劉建國說的喪屍煙彈啦 依托彌茲啦等等安非他命 會不會不可能海綿會不會蘇蘇康會不會對啊 對不對這是誰這是誰在抓"},{"start":249.076,"end":270.818,"text":"是警政署在抓 還是校園裡面的人在抓 還是誰在查我在招基層 我經常看到臨檢臨檢我是覺得警察很辛苦啦窗戶搖下來 看到他是第一次查器通緝犯等等再來看這個人會精神恍惚我們的警察很厲害耶 每行A"},{"start":274.483,"end":280.747,"text":"怕死人啊,他還要察言觀色、批凶名,還比較好啊,以前能控制什麼啊?警政署的人有這樣嗎?有啊來喔,快點,再表演一下,看你們還要基層嚴謹大家他有權利把人就攔截下來,就叫他用口水嗎?"},{"start":301.536,"end":327.282,"text":"你們現在是用口水是不是?用唾液是不是?報告委員喔,那一般來講我們在執行路檢我們可能會先用警職法先觀察先觀察,看有沒有那個就是電子菸的那個味道喔水果味道喔這個是在路邊盤查嘛,阿如果像路在炸車過就等於門鎖就來看,你那個有辦法?"},{"start":330.679,"end":339.283,"text":"觀察的話,我們還是會先聞聞看車窗搖下來有沒有味道有酒味嗎?對,酒味或者是電子煙的香味這個聞久了大概都會"},{"start":352.843,"end":368.467,"text":"那個基層嚴謹實在太可憐了這個18班五一都會再來你那個東西是什麼東西你叫他用口水是可以強制他吐這是脫衣快篩可以嗎你有權利嗎"},{"start":372.651,"end":386.124,"text":"這個部分我們有那個相關的法令還是看人家心神不靈,走路搖晃,就叫他吐口水,會嚇死人報告委員,就是使用唾液快篩的前提是他要有類似獨駕的症候"},{"start":388.126,"end":409.609,"text":"就是可能他要有先有那種行車搖晃的狀態那員警攔查下來之後會再對他做那個攀談然後進一步的觀察他有沒有可能涉及到毒價那有涉及到毒價的話我們進一步才會再使用拖曳快篩那如果單純是查緝電子菸的部分的話那可能就是先在盤查的過程中"},{"start":410.269,"end":433.128,"text":"看就是牠目視或者是用氣味辨識的方法研判牠到底是不是有在使用電子菸那不會直接進入到使用唾液塊塞的部分那唾液塊塞那個裡面可以測什麼東西那目前是可以我做醫生我要幫牠盡情測我沒電就算了所以要先後悔嗎目前唾液塊塞可以測七種毒品"},{"start":433.789,"end":457.387,"text":"就是海洛因就馬菲類的然後安菲他命類大麻凱他命然後喵喵依托米子跟那個本二蛋品類的安眠藥四級管藥唾液一個口水類它是用什麼?它是用什麼?它是用什麼?它是快篩試劑所以基本上是免疫分析有這種?有這種?有喔?一個快篩試劑要看多少?要怎麼準備啊?"},{"start":463.819,"end":475.788,"text":"因為這個我們國內採購的快篩試劑廠牌基本上都是經過美國FDA或者是歐盟的認證那我們實證研究是進口的還是台灣國產進口的就是代理商買回來的"},{"start":477.273,"end":496.441,"text":"所以用幾種所以我們這邊的毒品的種類跟國外是一樣的喔沒有因為伊吞米子目前可能比較在東就是亞洲部分有流行東亞那喵喵就是卡西同類的毒品的部分也是比較屬於就是東亞特有的所以這兩種的"},{"start":498.522,"end":506.911,"text":"品項能夠檢測是因為就是我們積極請那個代理商向原廠反映請他們新增這兩項毒品就是加進去對就是研發的那這個是在路邊"},{"start":512.889,"end":524.395,"text":"臨時起義 擄人勒手那如果學校呢學校咋辦學生也在那邊搖晃你們是誰來執行這個事情我要問得很清楚因為這個過度就是擾民"},{"start":534.12,"end":561.521,"text":"再來 這個是要講清楚喔你是什麼法源 什麼權力學校像學生學生有在吸嗎 我不知道啦不過這種電子煙是很可怕喔好 報告委員那現在本來針對那個就是有關毒品的一個防治的部分我們本來就針對特定人員會有一些觀察的一個要項所以師長如果觀察到學生有一些"},{"start":563.463,"end":580.925,"text":"是老師觀察還是有可能如果是在校園內透過我們的學務工作人員或是長觀察學生有一些特定的一個行為我們可能就會透過這樣的一個機制然後去了解學生是不是有"},{"start":581.425,"end":604.078,"text":"接觸到毒品然後能夠來掌握它是一個高風險的一個學生然後給予後續的一個相關的那學生如果有錯到你這個托育這個也是跟警察班會拿還是你們學校就有對目前我們是透過警政幫忙然後去購買這樣的一個托育快篩的試劑是學校購買還是教育部購買"},{"start":605.278,"end":625.043,"text":"目前是不離這邊去做一個購買然後會提供給縣市政府相關學校去做後續的一個使用當然他只是現在我們尿篩的一個替代的一個方式啦如果是做尿液篩檢是另外"},{"start":627.844,"end":645.044,"text":"所以用尿液也可以 用唾液也可以跟委員說明就是唾液快篩比較快啦它時間馬上就可以驗那尿液的話因為大家要送到實驗室所以尿液也可以做也可以 對"},{"start":646.385,"end":664.815,"text":"快篩出來有問題但是我們最後因為這個也都知道所有的快篩都有一定的偽陽性所以最後是要靠這個接著再問的偽陽偽陰性對一定會有啦所以最後要確診的時候確認的時候是靠這個尿液的檢驗"},{"start":665.575,"end":681.788,"text":"好,那如果學生,我們講學生,學生要保護嘛學生若說檢查是陽性,接續是交給檢察所抓的在地檢署啊,是不是這樣?大人給你抓的還好,孩子給你抓,這樣可以嗎?裡面都沒有注意這些問題,我一問三不知"},{"start":689.522,"end":702.293,"text":"尾陽的部分如果確定尿塞結果是尾陽當然我們會就這個部分然後再透過就學生你驗出來是陽性陽性那繼續尾陽原因是我們家長會質疑"},{"start":705.416,"end":726.794,"text":"如果是陽性的話,基本上對我們學生來講,我們就會有一個春暉輔導的機制然後我們會透過春暉輔導給學生在相關的一個輔導跟介製毒品的部分去做處理大人的部分,路邊攔截的,陽性,檢查誰給他拘留,誰給他上地檢署?"},{"start":730.492,"end":748.184,"text":"最後報告委員那個唾液快篩陽性的話我們是先依道交實施人車分離那後續如果要司法定罪的話基本上還是要採尿送驗才會就是成立檢察官才會決定起不起訴那中間現場攬查的部分"},{"start":749.665,"end":774.691,"text":"就是員警可以依據現場實際判斷他達不達到逮捕的行政程度這樣子對所以就是授權給警察當時的警察他做專業理性的判斷要不要把他送到警察局拘留或者是直接抓到地檢署去是不是這樣要不要執行逮捕的動作警察的責任很大他們的專業夠不夠"},{"start":776.832,"end":779.647,"text":"有沒有在受訓儀器準不準"},{"start":781.284,"end":809.94,"text":"報告委員 就是在拓醫快篩上路前我們10月底就有舉辦全國大規模的教育訓練而且涵蓋刑事鑑識跟交通人員那同樣的在上禮拜我們又進行了一次全國的教育訓練所以在這部分 而且我們都有擴大請各警察機關要再置辦所以就是這個教育的部分一直都在落實是好 主任我請部長部長 啊我們衛生部現在立選會今天是扮演什麼角色"},{"start":810.711,"end":827.036,"text":"就說不可以電子煙 加熱可以 電子煙加重發作你現在是在副理出人 你現在是在修這個條段是不是沒有 恩修法的目的也是過跨部會的連結啦就是把它從源頭 從製造輸入 販賣 供應"},{"start":832.938,"end":860.517,"text":"這條線把它納入到行者裡面我們就可以跟檢調合作容易溯源不然你現在在我們是行政單位在末端查到有持有也好有使用也好行政法但是要追溯到上游的時候確實受到行政能力行政權限的一些限制所以如果能夠現在我們修法它納入是行者裡面的話跟檢調一起合作的話更容易去溯源"},{"start":861.237,"end":879.828,"text":"源頭就阻斷啦那如果去跟那些賣粉的煙商、零售商你們去查核是你們去查還是警察去查都會查啦因為現在電子煙我們現在入法之後它的販賣就是刑事責任啦所以我們檢調都我們也會查我們查的時候也會移送給檢調"},{"start":886.812,"end":902.152,"text":"所以你也能,你如果有權利,去判斷不能打,去查,那你有管理嗎?我們其實現在就有查,只是查的時候,查了行政法而已啦"},{"start":903.233,"end":928.881,"text":"就是我們對溯源的部分的比較薄弱我們比較沒辦法做到比較好所以我們這要推查的人也要有感受到的高尤和薄弱我們是從上次修法之後我們就有另外編預算給地方衛生局適用專責的人專責的人這個是有專責的"},{"start":930.862,"end":949.118,"text":"好找嗎?真的一百幾個啦,一百六十幾位台語有教嗎?有人要做嗎?我們會再爭取預算齁這個修法,因應這個修法跟現在的查緝需要我們會爭取預算再增加對啦,那個要保護保障"},{"start":950.359,"end":969.267,"text":"還有要給他們有成就感,不然的話像私藥署的邊境差異也都很累,大家都不要躲所以就要寬烈預算,國電署就要加油預算的部分他拜託委員支持謝謝蘇清泉委員發言,接下來請許中信委員發言"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T11:56:31.332000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T11:56:33.314000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我請部長及國健署沈署長。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-02T11:56:33.314000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T11:56:33.554000+08:00","text":"有請石部長、沈署長。","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T11:56:33.554000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T11:56:33.574000+08:00","text":"蘇委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T11:56:33.734000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T11:56:35.075000+08:00","text":"部長，你有抽菸嗎？沒有。","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T11:56:35.295000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T11:56:35.796000+08:00","text":"署長有抽菸嗎？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T11:56:36.737000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T11:56:37.097000+08:00","text":"你們看一下圖片，哪一支是加熱菸？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T11:56:37.097000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T11:56:37.337000+08:00","text":"哪一支是電子煙？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T11:56:58.186000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T11:57:40.183000+08:00","text":"右邊數過來第三支是電子煙，這些都是電子煙，第四支我不太確定，再來第五支也是電子煙，另外，有的會仿冒，外型雖然是煙斗，可是它有可能裡面有一個container，有可能也是電子煙，那個煙斗也有可能是。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T11:57:50.111000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T11:57:56.197000+08:00","text":"部長，只有那支是加熱菸，剩下的都是電子煙，做得像煙斗的也是電子煙，幸好你還猜得到。","quality":0.528},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T11:57:57.678000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T11:58:00.181000+08:00","text":"你這支是加熱菸。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T11:58:00.181000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-02T11:58:10.669500+08:00","text":"對，這支加熱菸，這個現在是合法的，我現在手上拿的也是合法的。","quality":0.269},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T11:58:10.669500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-02T11:58:21.158000+08:00","text":"那個是菸柱。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T11:58:21.158000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T11:58:21.898000+08:00","text":"你也知道菸柱？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T11:58:23.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T11:58:27.783000+08:00","text":"我雖然沒有抽，但是我有去買來確認它到底是什麼。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T11:58:29.104000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T11:58:29.425000+08:00","text":"上面所貼的標示，你有看到嗎？","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T11:58:30.546000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T11:58:45.413000+08:00","text":"上面說會得口腔癌、肺氣腫、Lung Cancer，要貼這個標語，現在說這個上面也要貼，對不對？","quality":0.575},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T11:58:46.894000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T11:58:50.675000+08:00","text":"盒子的外包裝，不是這個啦！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T11:58:51.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T11:58:57.676000+08:00","text":"上面貼這個貼紙，他如果撕掉就沒了，只有貼而已，對不對？","quality":0.652},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T11:58:58.537000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T11:58:59.457000+08:00","text":"署長，你知道我在說什麼嗎？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T11:59:03.758000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T11:59:09.519000+08:00","text":"一般抽的煙就有貼，所以大家今天要在這裡討論這些，東西也沒看到。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T11:59:13.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T11:59:30.453000+08:00","text":"現在比較麻煩的是，加熱菸現在是可以抽的，這個一套進去就會啟動了，它就開始加熱了，然後這樣抽、這樣抽。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T11:59:31.754000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T11:59:32.014000+08:00","text":"委員不要示範啦！","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T11:59:32.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T11:59:46.506000+08:00","text":"我沒抽煙，我也不會抽，所以我要跟大家說，這個是還好，我沒有要替他們廣告，等一下反菸團體又要罵我！","quality":0.524},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T11:59:49.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T11:59:53.250000+08:00","text":"抽菸不好、抽菸絕對不好，要給董氏基金會拍拍手。對！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T11:59:56.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:00:22.307000+08:00","text":"這個電子煙很可怕，這裡面你要加什麼東西都可以，一支煙斗看起來是標準的，結果裡面是container，裡面可以加的東西可多了，像剛才劉建國說的喪屍煙彈、依托咪酯、安非他命等等，可以嗎？","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T12:00:24.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:00:24.789000+08:00","text":"有可能。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:00:24.789000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-02T12:00:25.789000+08:00","text":"海洛因，可以嗎？","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:00:25.789000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-02T12:00:26.789000+08:00","text":"速賜康，可以嗎？","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:00:25.389000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:00:25.429000+08:00","text":"可以，對不對？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:00:25.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:00:25.770000+08:00","text":"這是誰在抓？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:00:34.076000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:00:38+08:00","text":"是警政署在抓，還是校園裡面誰在抓，還是誰在查？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:00:38.781000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:00:59.783000+08:00","text":"我在跑基層的時候常常看到臨檢，我覺得警察很辛苦，窗戶搖下來第一是查緝通緝犯等等，再來看這個人有沒有精神恍惚，我們的警察很厲害什麼都會，嚇死人了！","quality":0.758},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:01:00.423000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:01:02.925000+08:00","text":"他也會察言觀色，比相命的還厲害，他可以看出什麼？","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:01:02.945000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:01:03.405000+08:00","text":"警政署的人有在這裡嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:01:03.706000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:01:05.747000+08:00","text":"來，快點來表演一下，讓大家看看你們下面的基層員警，他有權力把人攔截下來叫他用口水嗎？","quality":0.711},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:01:26.536000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:01:27.976000+08:00","text":"你們現在是用口水，是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:01:28.496000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:01:29.317000+08:00","text":"用唾液，是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐科長名谷","start":"2026-07-02T12:01:31.857000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:01:44.640000+08:00","text":"報告委員，一般來講，我們在執行路檢可能會用警職法，先觀察看看有沒有電子煙的味道，水果味道……","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:01:45.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:01:52.262000+08:00","text":"沒有，這個是在路邊盤查，如果是車輛臨檢的話，車子停下來將窗戶搖下來的這種有辦法嗎？","quality":0.405},{"speaker":"徐科長名谷","start":"2026-07-02T12:01:55.679000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:02:01.021000+08:00","text":"觀察的話，我們還是會先聞聞看車窗搖下來有沒有味道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:02:01.922000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:02:02.582000+08:00","text":"看有沒有酒味？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"徐科長名谷","start":"2026-07-02T12:02:02.842000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:02:03.522000+08:00","text":"對，酒味或者是電子煙的香味。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:02:03.522000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-02T12:02:04.522000+08:00","text":"你們更厲害，你們要會聞速賜康，還要會聞酒味。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐科長名谷","start":"2026-07-02T12:02:03.642000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:02:04.283000+08:00","text":"聞久了大概都會。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:02:19.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:02:27.586000+08:00","text":"我覺得我們的基層員警實在太可憐了，十八般武藝都要會，再來，那個東西是什麼東西？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:02:27.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:02:30.627000+08:00","text":"你叫他用口水是可以強制他吐嗎？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"徐科長名谷","start":"2026-07-02T12:02:31.807000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:02:32.467000+08:00","text":"這是唾液快篩。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:02:32.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:02:33.287000+08:00","text":"可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:02:33.287000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:02:33.467000+08:00","text":"你有權力嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"徐科長名谷","start":"2026-07-02T12:02:37.651000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:02:40.594000+08:00","text":"這個部分我們有相關的法令。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:02:41.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:02:46.620000+08:00","text":"還是看他心神不寧、走路搖晃，你就要叫他吐口水，嚇死人了！","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"魏偵查員子翔","start":"2026-07-02T12:02:47.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:03:08.702000+08:00","text":"報告委員，使用唾液快篩的前提是要有類似毒駕的徵候，就是可能他要先有行車搖晃的狀態，員警攔查下來之後，會再對他做攀談，然後進一步觀察他有沒有可能涉及毒駕，有涉及到毒駕的話，我們才會再進一步使用唾液快篩。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"魏偵查員子翔","start":"2026-07-02T12:03:08.863000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:03:24.197000+08:00","text":"如果單純是查緝電子煙的部分的話，可能在盤查的過程中，先目視或是用氣味辨識的方法研判他是不是有在使用電子煙，不會直接進入到使用唾液快篩的部分。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:03:25.098000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:03:28.260000+08:00","text":"唾液快篩可以測幾樣東西？","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:03:28.260000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-02T12:03:32.013500+08:00","text":"我當醫生，我要問清楚，不然部長等一下會被人家亂罵啊！","quality":0.217},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:03:32.013500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-02T12:03:35.767000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"魏偵查員子翔","start":"2026-07-02T12:03:35.767000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:03:51.198000+08:00","text":"目前唾液快篩可以測7種毒品，海洛因，就是嗎啡類的，還有安非他命類、大麻、愷他命、喵喵、依托咪酯跟苯二氮平類的安眠藥、四級管藥。","quality":0.736},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:03:51.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:03:56.623000+08:00","text":"唾液快篩，他是用什麼？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"魏偵查員子翔","start":"2026-07-02T12:03:56.743000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:04:00.626000+08:00","text":"他是用快篩試劑，所以基本上是免疫分析法。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:04:01.106000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:04:01.927000+08:00","text":"部長，一個快篩試劑可以驗這麼多種，會準嗎？","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"魏偵查員子翔","start":"2026-07-02T12:04:08.819000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:04:17.145000+08:00","text":"因為我們國內採購的快篩試劑廠牌基本上都是經過美國FDA或者是歐盟的認證，我們實證研究……","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:04:17.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:04:19.567000+08:00","text":"是進口的還是臺灣國產？","quality":1},{"speaker":"魏偵查員子翔","start":"2026-07-02T12:04:19.567000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:04:20.768000+08:00","text":"進口的，就是代理商買回來的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:04:22.273000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:04:26.475000+08:00","text":"所以我們這邊的毒品種類跟國外是一樣的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"魏偵查員子翔","start":"2026-07-02T12:04:27.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:04:50.430000+08:00","text":"沒有，因為依托咪酯目前可能在亞洲、東亞比較流行，喵喵也就是卡西酮類毒品的部分，也是比較屬於東亞特有的，所以這兩種品項能夠檢測是因為我們積極請代理商向原廠反映，請他們新增這兩項毒品……","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:04:50.990000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:04:51.171000+08:00","text":"就是再加進去？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"魏偵查員子翔","start":"2026-07-02T12:04:51.231000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:04:51.411000+08:00","text":"對，再研發的。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:04:51.651000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:05:02.272000+08:00","text":"這是在路邊臨時起意、擄人勒贖，如果是在學校裡面呢？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:05:04.573000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:05:07.734000+08:00","text":"學校怎麼辦，學生在那邊搖晃的話，你們是誰來執行這個事情？","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"魏偵查員子翔","start":"2026-07-02T12:05:07.734000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-02T12:05:08.734000+08:00","text":"學校的查緝部分可能會回歸到教育部。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:05:07.994000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:05:28.287000+08:00","text":"我要問得很清楚，因為過度就會擾民，這個是要講清楚喔，是什麼樣的法源、誰給你權力，學校的學生有在吸嗎？","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:05:28.287000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:05:30.609000+08:00","text":"我不知道啦，不過這種電子煙是很可怕喔！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭專門委員文瑤","start":"2026-07-02T12:05:32.631000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:05:46.501000+08:00","text":"報告委員，有關毒品防制的部分，我們本來就針對特定人員會有一些觀察要項，所以師長如果觀察到學生有一些不正常的……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:05:48.463000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:05:49.765000+08:00","text":"是老師觀察還是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭專門委員文瑤","start":"2026-07-02T12:05:51.086000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:06:14.229000+08:00","text":"如果是在校園內，透過我們的學務工作人員或師長觀察學生有一些特定的行為，我們可能就會透過這樣的機制去了解學生是不是有接觸到毒品，來掌握他是高風險的學生，給予後續相關的……","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:06:16.551000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:06:20.393000+08:00","text":"唾液快篩你們是跟警察單位拿，還是學校就有？","quality":0.632},{"speaker":"鄭專門委員文瑤","start":"2026-07-02T12:06:20.633000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:06:26.996000+08:00","text":"目前我們是透過警政幫忙，去購買唾液快篩的試劑。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:06:26.996000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:06:29.078000+08:00","text":"是學校購買還是教育部購買？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭專門委員文瑤","start":"2026-07-02T12:06:30.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:06:46.862000+08:00","text":"目前是部裡這邊去購買，然後提供給縣市政府相關學校做後續的使用，當然現在這只是尿篩的一個替代方式。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:06:49.562000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:06:50.023000+08:00","text":"尿液篩檢是另外的？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:06:50.023000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-02T12:06:51.023000+08:00","text":"嗎啡類的。對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭專門委員文瑤","start":"2026-07-02T12:06:51.023000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-02T12:06:52.023000+08:00","text":"現行本來就是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T12:06:52.023000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-02T12:06:53.023000+08:00","text":"可以驗。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:06:52.844000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:06:58.130000+08:00","text":"所以用尿液也可以、用唾液也可以，哪一種比較快？","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T12:06:58.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:07:06.680000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，唾液快篩比較快，馬上就可以驗，尿液的話，因為要送到實驗室。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:07:07.981000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:07:09.243000+08:00","text":"所以尿液也可以做？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T12:07:09.683000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:07:10.024000+08:00","text":"也可以。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:07:11.385000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:07:13.286000+08:00","text":"快篩出來有問題的話……","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T12:07:14.427000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:07:22.051000+08:00","text":"因為委員知道，所有的快篩都有一定的偽陽性機率，所以最後是要靠……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:07:22.251000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:07:23.992000+08:00","text":"對，這是我接著要問的，偽陽性、偽陰性。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T12:07:24.552000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:07:30.575000+08:00","text":"對，一定會有啦，所以最後要確認是靠尿液檢驗。好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:07:32.537000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:07:42.725000+08:00","text":"我們講學生，我們要保護學生，如果驗出來是陽性，接著是會交給警察把他抓到地檢署，是不是這樣？","quality":0.675},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:07:42.725000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:07:45.066000+08:00","text":"大人被你抓還好，小孩被你抓，這樣可以嗎？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:07:45.207000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:07:46.768000+08:00","text":"你們都沒有注意這些問題，一問三不知。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"鄭專門委員文瑤","start":"2026-07-02T12:07:54.722000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:08:01.628000+08:00","text":"偽陽的部分，如果尿篩結果確定是偽陽，當然我們會就這個部分然後再透過……","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:08:01.628000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:08:07.273000+08:00","text":"沒有、沒有，就是學生驗出來是陽性，偽陽、偽陰是家長會質疑……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"鄭專門委員文瑤","start":"2026-07-02T12:08:10.416000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:08:26.089000+08:00","text":"如果是陽性的話，基本上，對於學生，我們就會有一個春暉輔導的機制，我們會透過春暉輔導給學生相關的輔導以及在戒治毒品的部分去做處理。","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:08:27.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:08:31.774000+08:00","text":"大人的部分，路邊攔檢的如果測出來是陽性，警察會馬上將他拘留還是送地檢署？","quality":0.515},{"speaker":"魏偵查員子翔","start":"2026-07-02T12:08:35.992000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:08:59.566000+08:00","text":"報告委員，唾液快篩陽性的話，我們是先依據道交法實施人車分離，後續如果要司法定罪，基本上還是要採尿送驗，檢察官才會決定是否起訴；而在現場攔查的部分，員警可以依據現場實際判斷是否有達到逮捕的行政程度。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:09:01.287000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:09:14.190000+08:00","text":"所以就是授權給警察做專業、理性的判斷，要不要把他送到警察局拘留，或者是直接抓到地檢署去，是不是這樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"魏偵查員子翔","start":"2026-07-02T12:09:14.190000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:09:15.530000+08:00","text":"對，就是要不要進行逮捕的動作。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:09:16.471000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:09:19.691000+08:00","text":"那這樣警察的責任很大，他們的專業夠不夠？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:09:21.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:09:23.943000+08:00","text":"有沒有在受訓？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:09:23.943000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:09:24.626000+08:00","text":"儀器準不準？","quality":1},{"speaker":"魏偵查員子翔","start":"2026-07-02T12:09:26.284000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:09:49.177000+08:00","text":"有，報告委員，在唾液快篩上路前，我們10月底就有舉辦全國大規模的教育訓練，而且涵蓋刑事、鑑識跟交通人員，在上禮拜，我們又進行了一次全國的教育訓練，而且我們都有擴大，請各警察機關要再自辦，所以教育的部分一直都在落實。好。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:09:49.657000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:09:54.920000+08:00","text":"最後我請部長，部長，衛福部現在在最後的階段是扮演什麼樣的角色？","quality":0.607},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:09:55.711000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:10:03.413000+08:00","text":"就說電子煙不行、加熱菸可以、電子煙加重罰則等等，你們現在是這樣處理嗎？","quality":0.613},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:10:04.053000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:10:06.694000+08:00","text":"你現在是在修這個部分是不是？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T12:10:06.954000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:10:47.258000+08:00","text":"沒有，我們修法的目的也是做跨部會的連結，就是從源頭，從製造、輸入、販賣、供應，這條線把它納入到刑責裡面，我們就可以跟檢調合作，才容易溯源，不然現在我們行政單位在末端查到持有也好、使用也好，是以行政罰來處理，但是要追溯到上游的時候，確實受到行政能力、行政權限的一些限制，所以如果能夠修法納入刑責，能夠跟檢調一起合作的話，會更容易去溯源，從源頭做阻斷。","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:10:49.199000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:10:55.082000+08:00","text":"對於賣菸的這些菸商、零售商，是你們去查核還是警察去查？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T12:10:56.343000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:11:03.907000+08:00","text":"都會查啦，因為現在電子煙入法之後，販賣就是刑事責任，所以檢調都會去……","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:11:03.907000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-02T12:11:04.907000+08:00","text":"所以是國健署去查嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T12:11:03.927000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:11:04.828000+08:00","text":"我們也會查，我們查了之後也會移送給檢調。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:11:11.812000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:11:15.217000+08:00","text":"所以你們也有權力……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T12:11:15.217000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-02T12:11:17.439500+08:00","text":"我們也有在查。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:11:17.439500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-02T12:11:19.662000+08:00","text":"所以你們也會去攤販、檳榔攤等等地方查？對。","quality":0.111},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:11:19.662000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:11:21.645000+08:00","text":"你們有這個權力嗎？","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T12:11:21.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:11:33.375000+08:00","text":"有，我們其實現在就有查，只是我們現在查就是依據行政法而已，對於溯源的部分比較薄弱，比較沒辦法做到那麼……","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:11:33.375000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-02T12:11:46.579000+08:00","text":"對於這些要去查核的人，也要有相當的教育跟保護，不然出去會被放狗咬人，要跑路耶！","quality":0.257},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T12:11:46.579000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:11:53.861000+08:00","text":"從上次修法之後，我們有另外編預算給地方衛生局適用專責的人，這個是有專責的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:11:53.861000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-02T12:11:55.862000+08:00","text":"專責的人找得到嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:11:55.862000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:11:56.222000+08:00","text":"好找嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T12:11:56.683000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:11:59.746000+08:00","text":"現在有一百多個，一百六十幾位。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:11:59.746000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-02T12:12:01.447000+08:00","text":"這樣夠嗎？","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:12:01.447000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:12:03.249000+08:00","text":"有人要做嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:12:03.249000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-02T12:12:04.249000+08:00","text":"像你們食藥署邊境查核的都跑光光、都沒人要做。","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T12:12:03.249000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:12:12.096000+08:00","text":"我們會再爭取預算，因應這個修法跟現在的查緝需要，我們會爭取預算再增加。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:12:12.276000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:12:28.364000+08:00","text":"對啦，要保護、保障他們，還要讓他們有成就感，不然的話像食藥署的邊境查核也都很累，大家都不要做了，所以部長，你要寬列預算啦，國健署要加油啦！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T12:12:29.565000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:12:31.606000+08:00","text":"好，預算的部分，再拜託委員支持。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2026-07-02T12:12:31.606000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-02T12:12:32.606000+08:00","text":"絕對支持，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-02T12:12:32.606000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-02T12:12:33.606000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-02T12:12:32.286000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:12:32.986000+08:00","text":"謝謝蘇清泉委員發言。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-02T12:12:33.326000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-02T12:12:34.247000+08:00","text":"接下來請許忠信委員發言。","quality":0.909}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1159,"blocks":[["蘇委員清泉：（11時56分）謝謝主席，我請部長及國健署沈署長。"],["主席：有請石部長、沈署長。"],["石部長崇良：蘇委員好。"],["蘇委員清泉：部長，你有抽菸嗎？"],["石部長崇良：沒有。"],["蘇委員清泉：署長有抽菸嗎？你們看一下圖片，哪一支是加熱菸？哪一支是電子煙？"],["石部長崇良：右邊數過來第三支是電子煙，這些都是電子煙，第四支我不太確定，再來第五支也是電子煙，另外，有的會仿冒，外型雖然是煙斗，可是它有可能裡面有一個container，有可能也是電子煙，那個煙斗也有可能是。"],["蘇委員清泉：部長，只有那支是加熱菸，剩下的都是電子煙，做得像煙斗的也是電子煙，幸好你還猜得到。"],["石部長崇良：你這支是加熱菸。"],["蘇委員清泉：對，這支加熱菸，這個現在是合法的，我現在手上拿的也是合法的。"],["石部長崇良：那個是菸柱。"],["蘇委員清泉：你也知道菸柱？"],["石部長崇良：我雖然沒有抽，但是我有去買來確認它到底是什麼。"],["蘇委員清泉：上面所貼的標示，你有看到嗎？上面說會得口腔癌、肺氣腫、Lung Cancer，要貼這個標語，現在說這個上面也要貼，對不對？"],["石部長崇良：盒子的外包裝，不是這個啦！"],["蘇委員清泉：上面貼這個貼紙，他如果撕掉就沒了，只有貼而已，對不對？署長，你知道我在說什麼嗎？一般抽的煙就有貼，所以大家今天要在這裡討論這些，東西也沒看到。現在比較麻煩的是，加熱菸現在是可以抽的，這個一套進去就會啟動了，它就開始加熱了，然後這樣抽、這樣抽。"],["石部長崇良：委員不要示範啦！"],["蘇委員清泉：我沒抽煙，我也不會抽，所以我要跟大家說，這個是還好，我沒有要替他們廣告，等一下反菸團體又要罵我！抽菸不好、抽菸絕對不好，要給董氏基金會拍拍手。"],["石部長崇良：對！"],["蘇委員清泉：這個電子煙很可怕，這裡面你要加什麼東西都可以，一支煙斗看起來是標準的，結果裡面是container，裡面可以加的東西可多了，像剛才劉建國說的喪屍煙彈、依托咪酯、安非他命等等，可以嗎？"],["石部長崇良：有可能。"],["蘇委員清泉：海洛因，可以嗎？速賜康，可以嗎？可以，對不對？這是誰在抓？是警政署在抓，還是校園裡面誰在抓，還是誰在查？我在跑基層的時候常常看到臨檢，我覺得警察很辛苦，窗戶搖下來第一是查緝通緝犯等等，再來看這個人有沒有精神恍惚，我們的警察很厲害什麼都會，嚇死人了！他也會察言觀色，比相命的還厲害，他可以看出什麼？警政署的人有在這裡嗎？來，快點來表演一下，讓大家看看你們下面的基層員警，他有權力把人攔截下來叫他用口水嗎？你們現在是用口水，是不是？用唾液，是不是？"],["徐科長名谷：報告委員，一般來講，我們在執行路檢可能會用警職法，先觀察看看有沒有電子煙的味道，水果味道……"],["蘇委員清泉：沒有，這個是在路邊盤查，如果是車輛臨檢的話，車子停下來將窗戶搖下來的這種有辦法嗎？"],["徐科長名谷：觀察的話，我們還是會先聞聞看車窗搖下來有沒有味道。"],["蘇委員清泉：看有沒有酒味？"],["徐科長名谷：對，酒味或者是電子煙的香味。"],["蘇委員清泉：你們更厲害，你們要會聞速賜康，還要會聞酒味。"],["徐科長名谷：聞久了大概都會。"],["蘇委員清泉：我覺得我們的基層員警實在太可憐了，十八般武藝都要會，再來，那個東西是什麼東西？你叫他用口水是可以強制他吐嗎？"],["徐科長名谷：這是唾液快篩。"],["蘇委員清泉：可以嗎？你有權力嗎？"],["徐科長名谷：這個部分我們有相關的法令。"],["蘇委員清泉：還是看他心神不寧、走路搖晃，你就要叫他吐口水，嚇死人了！"],["魏偵查員子翔：報告委員，使用唾液快篩的前提是要有類似毒駕的徵候，就是可能他要先有行車搖晃的狀態，員警攔查下來之後，會再對他做攀談，然後進一步觀察他有沒有可能涉及毒駕，有涉及到毒駕的話，我們才會再進一步使用唾液快篩。如果單純是查緝電子煙的部分的話，可能在盤查的過程中，先目視或是用氣味辨識的方法研判他是不是有在使用電子煙，不會直接進入到使用唾液快篩的部分。"],["蘇委員清泉：唾液快篩可以測幾樣東西？我當醫生，我要問清楚，不然部長等一下會被人家亂罵啊！對不對？"],["魏偵查員子翔：目前唾液快篩可以測7種毒品，海洛因，就是嗎啡類的，還有安非他命類、大麻、愷他命、喵喵、依托咪酯跟苯二氮平類的安眠藥、四級管藥。"],["蘇委員清泉：唾液快篩，他是用什麼？"],["魏偵查員子翔：他是用快篩試劑，所以基本上是免疫分析法。"],["蘇委員清泉：部長，一個快篩試劑可以驗這麼多種，會準嗎？"],["魏偵查員子翔：因為我們國內採購的快篩試劑廠牌基本上都是經過美國FDA或者是歐盟的認證，我們實證研究……"],["蘇委員清泉：是進口的還是臺灣國產？"],["魏偵查員子翔：進口的，就是代理商買回來的。"],["蘇委員清泉：所以我們這邊的毒品種類跟國外是一樣的？"],["魏偵查員子翔：沒有，因為依托咪酯目前可能在亞洲、東亞比較流行，喵喵也就是卡西酮類毒品的部分，也是比較屬於東亞特有的，所以這兩種品項能夠檢測是因為我們積極請代理商向原廠反映，請他們新增這兩項毒品……"],["蘇委員清泉：就是再加進去？"],["魏偵查員子翔：對，再研發的。"],["蘇委員清泉：這是在路邊臨時起意、擄人勒贖，如果是在學校裡面呢？學校怎麼辦，學生在那邊搖晃的話，你們是誰來執行這個事情？"],["魏偵查員子翔：學校的查緝部分可能會回歸到教育部。"],["蘇委員清泉：我要問得很清楚，因為過度就會擾民，這個是要講清楚喔，是什麼樣的法源、誰給你權力，學校的學生有在吸嗎？我不知道啦，不過這種電子煙是很可怕喔！"],["鄭專門委員文瑤：報告委員，有關毒品防制的部分，我們本來就針對特定人員會有一些觀察要項，所以師長如果觀察到學生有一些不正常的……"],["蘇委員清泉：是老師觀察還是……"],["鄭專門委員文瑤：如果是在校園內，透過我們的學務工作人員或師長觀察學生有一些特定的行為，我們可能就會透過這樣的機制去了解學生是不是有接觸到毒品，來掌握他是高風險的學生，給予後續相關的……"],["蘇委員清泉：唾液快篩你們是跟警察單位拿，還是學校就有？"],["鄭專門委員文瑤：目前我們是透過警政幫忙，去購買唾液快篩的試劑。"],["蘇委員清泉：是學校購買還是教育部購買？"],["鄭專門委員文瑤：目前是部裡這邊去購買，然後提供給縣市政府相關學校做後續的使用，當然現在這只是尿篩的一個替代方式。"],["蘇委員清泉：尿液篩檢是另外的？嗎啡類的。"],["石部長崇良：對。"],["鄭專門委員文瑤：現行本來就是……"],["石部長崇良：可以驗。"],["蘇委員清泉：所以用尿液也可以、用唾液也可以，哪一種比較快？"],["石部長崇良：跟委員說明，唾液快篩比較快，馬上就可以驗，尿液的話，因為要送到實驗室。"],["蘇委員清泉：所以尿液也可以做？"],["石部長崇良：也可以。"],["蘇委員清泉：快篩出來有問題的話……"],["石部長崇良：因為委員知道，所有的快篩都有一定的偽陽性機率，所以最後是要靠……"],["蘇委員清泉：對，這是我接著要問的，偽陽性、偽陰性。"],["石部長崇良：對，一定會有啦，所以最後要確認是靠尿液檢驗。"],["蘇委員清泉：好。我們講學生，我們要保護學生，如果驗出來是陽性，接著是會交給警察把他抓到地檢署，是不是這樣？大人被你抓還好，小孩被你抓，這樣可以嗎？你們都沒有注意這些問題，一問三不知。"],["鄭專門委員文瑤：偽陽的部分，如果尿篩結果確定是偽陽，當然我們會就這個部分然後再透過……"],["蘇委員清泉：沒有、沒有，就是學生驗出來是陽性，偽陽、偽陰是家長會質疑……"],["鄭專門委員文瑤：如果是陽性的話，基本上，對於學生，我們就會有一個春暉輔導的機制，我們會透過春暉輔導給學生相關的輔導以及在戒治毒品的部分去做處理。"],["蘇委員清泉：大人的部分，路邊攔檢的如果測出來是陽性，警察會馬上將他拘留還是送地檢署？"],["魏偵查員子翔：報告委員，唾液快篩陽性的話，我們是先依據道交法實施人車分離，後續如果要司法定罪，基本上還是要採尿送驗，檢察官才會決定是否起訴；而在現場攔查的部分，員警可以依據現場實際判斷是否有達到逮捕的行政程度。"],["蘇委員清泉：所以就是授權給警察做專業、理性的判斷，要不要把他送到警察局拘留，或者是直接抓到地檢署去，是不是這樣？"],["魏偵查員子翔：對，就是要不要進行逮捕的動作。"],["蘇委員清泉：那這樣警察的責任很大，他們的專業夠不夠？有沒有在受訓？儀器準不準？"],["魏偵查員子翔：有，報告委員，在唾液快篩上路前，我們10月底就有舉辦全國大規模的教育訓練，而且涵蓋刑事、鑑識跟交通人員，在上禮拜，我們又進行了一次全國的教育訓練，而且我們都有擴大，請各警察機關要再自辦，所以教育的部分一直都在落實。"],["蘇委員清泉：好。最後我請部長，部長，衛福部現在在最後的階段是扮演什麼樣的角色？就說電子煙不行、加熱菸可以、電子煙加重罰則等等，你們現在是這樣處理嗎？你現在是在修這個部分是不是？"],["石部長崇良：沒有，我們修法的目的也是做跨部會的連結，就是從源頭，從製造、輸入、販賣、供應，這條線把它納入到刑責裡面，我們就可以跟檢調合作，才容易溯源，不然現在我們行政單位在末端查到持有也好、使用也好，是以行政罰來處理，但是要追溯到上游的時候，確實受到行政能力、行政權限的一些限制，所以如果能夠修法納入刑責，能夠跟檢調一起合作的話，會更容易去溯源，從源頭做阻斷。"],["蘇委員清泉：對於賣菸的這些菸商、零售商，是你們去查核還是警察去查？"],["石部長崇良：都會查啦，因為現在電子煙入法之後，販賣就是刑事責任，所以檢調都會去……"],["蘇委員清泉：所以是國健署去查嗎？"],["石部長崇良：我們也會查，我們查了之後也會移送給檢調。"],["蘇委員清泉：所以你們也有權力……"],["石部長崇良：我們也有在查。"],["蘇委員清泉：所以你們也會去攤販、檳榔攤等等地方查？"],["石部長崇良：對。"],["蘇委員清泉：你們有這個權力嗎？"],["石部長崇良：有，我們其實現在就有查，只是我們現在查就是依據行政法而已，對於溯源的部分比較薄弱，比較沒辦法做到那麼……"],["蘇委員清泉：對於這些要去查核的人，也要有相當的教育跟保護，不然出去會被放狗咬人，要跑路耶！"],["石部長崇良：從上次修法之後，我們有另外編預算給地方衛生局適用專責的人，這個是有專責的。"],["蘇委員清泉：專責的人找得到嗎？好找嗎？"],["石部長崇良：現在有一百多個，一百六十幾位。"],["蘇委員清泉：這樣夠嗎？有人要做嗎？像你們食藥署邊境查核的都跑光光、都沒人要做。"],["石部長崇良：我們會再爭取預算，因應這個修法跟現在的查緝需要，我們會爭取預算再增加。"],["蘇委員清泉：對啦，要保護、保障他們，還要讓他們有成就感，不然的話像食藥署的邊境查核也都很累，大家都不要做了，所以部長，你要寬列預算啦，國健署要加油啦！"],["石部長崇良：好，預算的部分，再拜託委員支持。"],["蘇委員清泉：絕對支持，謝謝。"],["石部長崇良：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝蘇清泉委員發言。","接下來請許忠信委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":248,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-26-17","speakers":["林月琴","王正旭","王育敏","林倩綺","陳菁徽","邱慧洳","邱鎮軍","林淑芬","黃秀芳","涂權吉","盧縣一","劉建國","蘇清泉","許忠信","張雅琳","傅崐萁","陳冠廷","廖偉翔","楊曜","陳瑩","游顥"],"page_start":161,"meetingDate":["2026-07-02"],"gazette_id":"1155701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155701_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、委員徐巧芯等19人擬具「菸害防制法第二十六條條文修正草案」案、二、委員黃健豪等\n17人擬具「菸害防制法第三十七條條文修正草案」案、三、委員羅智強等17人擬具「菸害防制法\n第二十六條條文修正草案」案、四、委員羅智強等 17 人擬具「菸害防制法第四十條條文修正草\n案」案、五、委員吳宗憲等17人擬具「菸害防制法第四條條文修正草案」案、六、委員陳秀寳等\n20人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案、七、委員林月琴等22人擬具「菸害防制法部分條\n文修正草案」案、八、委員王育敏等20人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案、九、委員呂\n玉玲等16人擬具「菸害防制法增訂第七條之一條文草案」案、十、委員邱若華等17人擬具「菸害\n防制法第三條及第十五條條文修正草案」案、十一、委員陳超明等31人擬具「菸害防制法部分條\n文修正草案」案、十二、委員王義川等17人擬具「菸害防制法第三十二條及第四十條條文修正草\n案」案、十三、委員林倩綺等22人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案、十四、委員陳菁徽\n等21人擬具「菸害防制法第十五條條文修正草案」案、十五、委員林思銘等20人擬具「菸害防制\n法部分條文修正草案」案、十六、委員邱鎮軍等20人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案、\n十七、委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1155701_00011"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}