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12:12:42","會議時間":"2026-07-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：審查\n一、委員徐巧芯等19人擬具「菸害防制法第二十六條條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員黃健豪等17人擬具「菸害防制法第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員羅智強等17人擬具「菸害防制法第二十六條條文修正草案」案。\n四、委員羅智強等17人擬具「菸害防制法第四十條條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員吳宗憲等17人擬具「菸害防制法第四條條文修正草案」案。\n六、委員陳秀寳等20人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。\n七、委員林月琴等22人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。\n八、委員王育敏等20人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。\n九、委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「菸害防制法增訂第七條之一條文草案」案。\n十、委員邱若華等17人擬具「菸害防制法第三條及第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、委員陳超明等31人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十二、委員王義川等17人擬具「菸害防制法第三十二條及第四十條條文修正草案」案。\n十三、委員林倩綺等22人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、委員陳菁徽等21人擬具「菸害防制法第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n十五、委員林思銘等20人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十六、委員邱鎮軍等20人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十七、委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「菸害防制法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【僅詢答】【第十二至十七案，如經復議則不予審查】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5.71784375,"end":7.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.02971875,"end":8.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8.92409375,"end":11.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.708468750000002,"end":12.484718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.484718750000003,"end":12.501593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13.480343750000003,"end":14.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16.48409375,"end":17.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17.766593750000002,"end":18.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18.812843750000003,"end":19.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21.52971875,"end":21.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22.778468750000002,"end":23.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25.410968750000002,"end":29.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":29.42721875,"end":29.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":29.64659375,"end":29.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":29.66346875,"end":30.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":30.28784375,"end":30.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":31.97534375,"end":31.992218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":31.992218750000006,"end":37.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":38.62409375,"end":39.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":40.37909375,"end":44.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":45.44159375,"end":45.829718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":46.42034375,"end":50.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":51.533468750000004,"end":52.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":52.984718750000006,"end":56.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":58.97534375,"end":72.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.227843750000005,"end":63.632843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":73.85909375,"end":75.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":76.22159375000001,"end":76.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":78.61784375,"end":78.97221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":80.27159375000001,"end":81.53721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":81.95909375000001,"end":82.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":82.46534375,"end":82.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":82.49909375,"end":82.76909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":82.76909375000001,"end":82.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":85.11471875000001,"end":91.66221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":89.67096875,"end":89.70471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":89.72159375000001,"end":89.73846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.73846875000001,"end":89.75534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":89.75534375000001,"end":89.77221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":92.35409375,"end":93.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":95.13846875,"end":96.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":96.85971875,"end":97.29846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":98.22659375,"end":102.19221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":99.99846875,"end":101.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":101.29784375000001,"end":101.97284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":102.19221875000001,"end":102.78284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":104.06534375000001,"end":105.38159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":105.87096875,"end":107.49096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":107.52471875,"end":107.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":107.55846875,"end":108.95909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":107.82846875000001,"end":107.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":108.23346875,"end":108.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":109.80284375000001,"end":110.42721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":111.94596875,"end":111.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":111.96284375,"end":112.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":112.03034375,"end":112.97534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":112.97534375000001,"end":113.14409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":113.14409375000001,"end":113.97096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":113.16096875000001,"end":113.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":113.97096875000001,"end":115.70909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":115.70909375000001,"end":115.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":115.96221875,"end":116.02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謝謝主席 我請部長還有國建署 沈署長沈署長來 蘇委員好柏中你吃飽沒有沒有署長有吃飽沒有來 我給你看看這對一支是加熱煙 對一支是電子煙"},{"start":33.186,"end":44.47,"text":"右邊過來第三支是電子煙右邊數來第三支是電子煙這個也是 都是電子煙第四支不太確定再來第五支也是電子煙"},{"start":59.929,"end":76.325,"text":"阿另外齁,這有的都會防冒啦,外型齁,外型雖然是煙斗喔,可是它有可能裡面有一個container齁,這個有可能也是電子煙喔,那個煙斗那個也是,那個也有可能是喔,加熱煙,對啦,對啦"},{"start":85.111,"end":96.962,"text":"只有那一支是加熱煙,除了用電子煙,做到像煙土那樣,也是電子煙,感覺又有中,你看這支是加熱煙,這支就是這支,合法合法。"},{"start":112.174,"end":132.632,"text":"這也合法喔,黑煙柱煙柱,你也知道煙柱喔雖然沒有說,但是我也有去買我來確認說,它到底是什麼你先看那大標示,你有沒有要說,會中口腔癌會中肺氣腫,會中人類癌症這樣要打這個現在說,這個上面也要打"},{"start":139.113,"end":164.539,"text":"對不對 每次都要打 盒子啦外包裝 外包裝 不是這個啦這不管打 打這個貼紙 他們如果把你貼到就沒有啊盒子啦 一直打起摸而已啊 對不對主席 你知道我在說什麼嗎 主席啊這 這是分 一般的 抽的菸就有所以大家今天 你在那邊噗嚨這 啊 東西也沒看到齁"},{"start":167.179,"end":193.599,"text":"好那現在比較麻煩的事就是這個加熱煙現在是可以嘛然後這個套進去然後就他就會一套進去他就會啟動他就會他就開始開始開始加熱然後才這樣煮這樣煮委員謀示範我都沒有吃飯我都沒有吃所以我要跟大家說"},{"start":196.603,"end":215.554,"text":"這個是這個還好啦齁阿我沒天公格齁但是反煙團體還把我幹掉齁抽煙不好抽煙絕對不好董事基金會要給我拍拍手那這個這個電子煙是很可怕喔所以裡面你要加什麼東西都可以喔"},{"start":219.733,"end":240.79,"text":"是一個一個endorendor看起來是標準的結果裡面是可以一個container裡面可以加哇 加的東西可多喔剛才劉建國說的喪屍煙彈啦 依托彌茲啦等等安非他命 會不會不可能海綿會不會蘇蘇康會不會對啊 對不對這是誰這是誰在抓"},{"start":249.076,"end":270.818,"text":"是警政署在抓 還是校園裡面的人在抓 還是誰在查我在招基層 我經常看到臨檢臨檢我是覺得警察很辛苦啦窗戶搖下來 看到他是第一次查器通緝犯等等再來看這個人會精神恍惚我們的警察很厲害耶 每行A"},{"start":274.483,"end":280.747,"text":"怕死人啊,他還要察言觀色、批凶名,還比較好啊,以前能控制什麼啊?警政署的人有這樣嗎?有啊來喔,快點,再表演一下,看你們還要基層嚴謹大家他有權利把人就攔截下來,就叫他用口水嗎?"},{"start":301.536,"end":327.282,"text":"你們現在是用口水是不是?用唾液是不是?報告委員喔,那一般來講我們在執行路檢我們可能會先用警職法先觀察先觀察,看有沒有那個就是電子菸的那個味道喔水果味道喔這個是在路邊盤查嘛,阿如果像路在炸車過就等於門鎖就來看,你那個有辦法?"},{"start":330.679,"end":339.283,"text":"觀察的話,我們還是會先聞聞看車窗搖下來有沒有味道有酒味嗎?對,酒味或者是電子煙的香味這個聞久了大概都會"},{"start":352.843,"end":368.467,"text":"那個基層嚴謹實在太可憐了這個18班五一都會再來你那個東西是什麼東西你叫他用口水是可以強制他吐這是脫衣快篩可以嗎你有權利嗎"},{"start":372.651,"end":386.124,"text":"這個部分我們有那個相關的法令還是看人家心神不靈,走路搖晃,就叫他吐口水,會嚇死人報告委員,就是使用唾液快篩的前提是他要有類似獨駕的症候"},{"start":388.126,"end":409.609,"text":"就是可能他要有先有那種行車搖晃的狀態那員警攔查下來之後會再對他做那個攀談然後進一步的觀察他有沒有可能涉及到毒價那有涉及到毒價的話我們進一步才會再使用拖曳快篩那如果單純是查緝電子菸的部分的話那可能就是先在盤查的過程中"},{"start":410.269,"end":433.128,"text":"看就是牠目視或者是用氣味辨識的方法研判牠到底是不是有在使用電子菸那不會直接進入到使用唾液塊塞的部分那唾液塊塞那個裡面可以測什麼東西那目前是可以我做醫生我要幫牠盡情測我沒電就算了所以要先後悔嗎目前唾液塊塞可以測七種毒品"},{"start":433.789,"end":457.387,"text":"就是海洛因就馬菲類的然後安菲他命類大麻凱他命然後喵喵依托米子跟那個本二蛋品類的安眠藥四級管藥唾液一個口水類它是用什麼?它是用什麼?它是用什麼?它是快篩試劑所以基本上是免疫分析有這種?有這種?有喔?一個快篩試劑要看多少?要怎麼準備啊?"},{"start":463.819,"end":475.788,"text":"因為這個我們國內採購的快篩試劑廠牌基本上都是經過美國FDA或者是歐盟的認證那我們實證研究是進口的還是台灣國產進口的就是代理商買回來的"},{"start":477.273,"end":496.441,"text":"所以用幾種所以我們這邊的毒品的種類跟國外是一樣的喔沒有因為伊吞米子目前可能比較在東就是亞洲部分有流行東亞那喵喵就是卡西同類的毒品的部分也是比較屬於就是東亞特有的所以這兩種的"},{"start":498.522,"end":506.911,"text":"品項能夠檢測是因為就是我們積極請那個代理商向原廠反映請他們新增這兩項毒品就是加進去對就是研發的那這個是在路邊"},{"start":512.889,"end":524.395,"text":"臨時起義 擄人勒手那如果學校呢學校咋辦學生也在那邊搖晃你們是誰來執行這個事情我要問得很清楚因為這個過度就是擾民"},{"start":534.12,"end":561.521,"text":"再來 這個是要講清楚喔你是什麼法源 什麼權力學校像學生學生有在吸嗎 我不知道啦不過這種電子煙是很可怕喔好 報告委員那現在本來針對那個就是有關毒品的一個防治的部分我們本來就針對特定人員會有一些觀察的一個要項所以師長如果觀察到學生有一些"},{"start":563.463,"end":580.925,"text":"是老師觀察還是有可能如果是在校園內透過我們的學務工作人員或是長觀察學生有一些特定的一個行為我們可能就會透過這樣的一個機制然後去了解學生是不是有"},{"start":581.425,"end":604.078,"text":"接觸到毒品然後能夠來掌握它是一個高風險的一個學生然後給予後續的一個相關的那學生如果有錯到你這個托育這個也是跟警察班會拿還是你們學校就有對目前我們是透過警政幫忙然後去購買這樣的一個托育快篩的試劑是學校購買還是教育部購買"},{"start":605.278,"end":625.043,"text":"目前是不離這邊去做一個購買然後會提供給縣市政府相關學校去做後續的一個使用當然他只是現在我們尿篩的一個替代的一個方式啦如果是做尿液篩檢是另外"},{"start":627.844,"end":645.044,"text":"所以用尿液也可以 用唾液也可以跟委員說明就是唾液快篩比較快啦它時間馬上就可以驗那尿液的話因為大家要送到實驗室所以尿液也可以做也可以 對"},{"start":646.385,"end":664.815,"text":"快篩出來有問題但是我們最後因為這個也都知道所有的快篩都有一定的偽陽性所以最後是要靠這個接著再問的偽陽偽陰性對一定會有啦所以最後要確診的時候確認的時候是靠這個尿液的檢驗"},{"start":665.575,"end":681.788,"text":"好,那如果學生,我們講學生,學生要保護嘛學生若說檢查是陽性,接續是交給檢察所抓的在地檢署啊,是不是這樣?大人給你抓的還好,孩子給你抓,這樣可以嗎?裡面都沒有注意這些問題,我一問三不知"},{"start":689.522,"end":702.293,"text":"尾陽的部分如果確定尿塞結果是尾陽當然我們會就這個部分然後再透過就學生你驗出來是陽性陽性那繼續尾陽原因是我們家長會質疑"},{"start":705.416,"end":726.794,"text":"如果是陽性的話,基本上對我們學生來講,我們就會有一個春暉輔導的機制然後我們會透過春暉輔導給學生在相關的一個輔導跟介製毒品的部分去做處理大人的部分,路邊攔截的,陽性,檢查誰給他拘留,誰給他上地檢署?"},{"start":730.492,"end":748.184,"text":"最後報告委員那個唾液快篩陽性的話我們是先依道交實施人車分離那後續如果要司法定罪的話基本上還是要採尿送驗才會就是成立檢察官才會決定起不起訴那中間現場攬查的部分"},{"start":749.665,"end":774.691,"text":"就是員警可以依據現場實際判斷他達不達到逮捕的行政程度這樣子對所以就是授權給警察當時的警察他做專業理性的判斷要不要把他送到警察局拘留或者是直接抓到地檢署去是不是這樣要不要執行逮捕的動作警察的責任很大他們的專業夠不夠"},{"start":776.832,"end":779.647,"text":"有沒有在受訓儀器準不準"},{"start":781.284,"end":809.94,"text":"報告委員 就是在拓醫快篩上路前我們10月底就有舉辦全國大規模的教育訓練而且涵蓋刑事鑑識跟交通人員那同樣的在上禮拜我們又進行了一次全國的教育訓練所以在這部分 而且我們都有擴大請各警察機關要再置辦所以就是這個教育的部分一直都在落實是好 主任我請部長部長 啊我們衛生部現在立選會今天是扮演什麼角色"},{"start":810.711,"end":827.036,"text":"就說不可以電子煙 加熱可以 電子煙加重發作你現在是在副理出人 你現在是在修這個條段是不是沒有 恩修法的目的也是過跨部會的連結啦就是把它從源頭 從製造輸入 販賣 供應"},{"start":832.938,"end":860.517,"text":"這條線把它納入到行者裡面我們就可以跟檢調合作容易溯源不然你現在在我們是行政單位在末端查到有持有也好有使用也好行政法但是要追溯到上游的時候確實受到行政能力行政權限的一些限制所以如果能夠現在我們修法它納入是行者裡面的話跟檢調一起合作的話更容易去溯源"},{"start":861.237,"end":879.828,"text":"源頭就阻斷啦那如果去跟那些賣粉的煙商、零售商你們去查核是你們去查還是警察去查都會查啦因為現在電子煙我們現在入法之後它的販賣就是刑事責任啦所以我們檢調都我們也會查我們查的時候也會移送給檢調"},{"start":886.812,"end":902.152,"text":"所以你也能,你如果有權利,去判斷不能打,去查,那你有管理嗎?我們其實現在就有查,只是查的時候,查了行政法而已啦"},{"start":903.233,"end":928.881,"text":"就是我們對溯源的部分的比較薄弱我們比較沒辦法做到比較好所以我們這要推查的人也要有感受到的高尤和薄弱我們是從上次修法之後我們就有另外編預算給地方衛生局適用專責的人專責的人這個是有專責的"},{"start":930.862,"end":949.118,"text":"好找嗎?真的一百幾個啦,一百六十幾位台語有教嗎?有人要做嗎?我們會再爭取預算齁這個修法,因應這個修法跟現在的查緝需要我們會爭取預算再增加對啦,那個要保護保障"},{"start":950.359,"end":969.267,"text":"還有要給他們有成就感,不然的話像私藥署的邊境差異也都很累,大家都不要躲所以就要寬烈預算,國電署就要加油預算的部分他拜託委員支持謝謝蘇清泉委員發言,接下來請許中信委員發言"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}