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報告事項一 宣讀上次會議議事錄決定議事錄確定二 文化部部長李遠列席報告業務概況並被質詢 本次議程有委員林佩祥等22人提出質詢均經文化部部長李遠及相關人員及其答覆說明另有委員謝榮介 林純培宇提出書面質詢決定一 報告及詢討完畢二 委員所提書面質詢或相關資料列入記錄並刊登公報"},{"start":1462.549,"end":1477.767,"text":"3.對委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆部分請相關機關盡速與順便答覆11月6日報告事項國立顧光博物院院長蕭宗航列席報告AO概況並被質詢本日議程有委員、萬美玲等16人提出質詢"},{"start":1478.988,"end":1498.742,"text":"均經國立故宮博物院院長蕭中仿及相關人員及其答覆說明決定一 報告及詢問完畢二 委員所提書面質詢或相關資料列入記錄並刊登公報三 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我覺得不用訪問是 相關的部分 因為我這邊一個很大的疑問是不是疑問 就是我在處理過程當中 我為什麼說過程當中我會把它簡略因為我們的主秘他其實在 他一直是持續的這個位置嘛在當兩位召委 包括的是民進黨的召委跟當我召委的過程當中當然主秘是非常重要的一個依賴的一個幕僚人物"},{"start":1772.735,"end":1787.473,"text":"那他的一個意見呢事實上剛書寫的是說有些部分還有很多的不確定因素但是我們都知道現在的業務報告在我們教文委會所涉及的七個部會當中已經到了幾乎快要沒有就是已經剩下大概最後一兩個了"},{"start":1788.314,"end":1809.806,"text":"河岸會都已經有做這個專報那這個部分那現在專報第一個是在運動部是涉及到那考察也過了所以相關的部分呢就是應該就是應該排到就當然我也經過了多方的查證包括的是跟秘書處還包括我們議事處都已經確認了這個過程所以這部分我才可以今天很大聲的講確認的講我們業務在屬於運動部的業務報告這一些部分包括其他的"},{"start":1816.109,"end":1841.396,"text":"本來我們就可以排專報本來就可以排考察也可以排工替會這些部分都是無異議的那就是在預算部分的話應該也是沒有異議只是說我們現在的程序上面就是在因為考察院會當中這部分然後當然還必須要有一個財政委員在做一個過分做審過程那所以這部分就是現在無異議但是我在講我們的主委他的部分他提供的一些資訊當中我覺得應該有非常有一些異議所以我才會再做更多的求證"},{"start":1842.156,"end":1860.887,"text":"希望就是說 主委 主祕這邊的一個歷程上面也希望說可以把多的我們經過政府非常多的一個部會的這個新設立或是因為這個改名之類的這些過程這部分我想這個勢力如果更清楚或就算"},{"start":1862.199,"end":1884.628,"text":"很多的法不需要有時候是動只要沒有動的 只要因為修法會創日廢時但是在還沒有讓它在過程當中運作的時候勢力當中就形成了一個很大的一個規範那除非有疑義當然就是要去再處理那我們就盡量就是採取的用這種方式所以目前依照過去的在處理廟文委會的相關的部會包括是現在在運動部前身的體委會然後到"},{"start":1886.149,"end":1901.532,"text":"到這個教育部他審訊下到教育部的體育署然後再到這一個現在變成升格變成運動部這過程當中包括包括國科位這個例子也就非常多這邊部分其實都已經非常多案例只要沒有疑義就都是這樣進行的我就做上以上報告說明"},{"start":1908.783,"end":1930.308,"text":"好 谢谢赵伟那我想其实也要非常感谢赵伟很辛苦在过去这段时间当中那因为要去厘清运动部到底是不是在教育文化委员会那我们赵伟其实做了非常多的功课那也问了非常多相关的这个法源依据或者是专业这样那所以呢我想请教一下就是说那现在运动部"},{"start":1930.768,"end":1943.647,"text":"是不是確定在我們教育文化委員會我覺得這個是很重要的一件事情那第二個就是說今天之所以要釐清是不希望不管是祖密給昭偉的意見或者是說大家現在紛紛在討論如果說"},{"start":1946.811,"end":1974.34,"text":"運動部從過去在體委會體育署到現在運動部其實都在教育文化委員會但是卻還會衍生出運動部到底在不在教育文化委員會這樣的一個說法我想不管是依慣例或是找法源其實都比較說不過去所以剛剛這個趙薇講了很多以後我想請問的是是不是其實在我們這段釐清的過程已經很確定了運動部現在是在教育文化委員會"},{"start":1976.36,"end":2000.215,"text":"目前應該是很確定在教文委員會因為他從來沒有離開教文委員會這就是非常確定的答案好那我想請教一下就是因為祖密有在講嘛就是我們今天啊本來不能排夜報那時候講的想法是說運動部不在教育文化委員會那這一點的話那個祖密是不是要跟大家說明一下也讓召委也讓我們所有的委員清楚一下那是不是可以請主席採視"},{"start":2013.815,"end":2032.771,"text":"那個召委那個報告委員我主要是提到一下那個立法院各委會組織法第二條當初的立法理由就是後來就是主要是在八十年十一月二十八號的時候一個彭委員有提出來"},{"start":2034.017,"end":2041.152,"text":"那內政委員會未依憲法規定邀請內政部長自立法院來報告事證 因為那時候"},{"start":2044.465,"end":2073.501,"text":"所以我跟大家講這個這部分我已經看過了啦所以你的案例已經不夠了我必須跟大家講齁那陳祖密他有他的一個職責啦那他在問到說相關業務的報告的時候他有提供他的專業但是這個專業部分根據常理判斷之後包括法治規範之後事實上是不盡合理所以我才在尋求合理的這樣的一個法治追尋沒錯沒錯"},{"start":2076.021,"end":2101.946,"text":"沒有沒有包括法治規範所以這部分我請萬委員你就先就讓我來處理這部分呢我已經確認了這部分那個秘書處都已經還有包括議事處都已經來跟我來做一下把提供的非常多對對這部分因為都一直是在教文委員會那財政的財務的部分就是依照程序各個委員會都是這樣處理就是就是上那個程序這樣去處理就可以了好那本來也"},{"start":2103.763,"end":2131.449,"text":"是啊我剛剛已經說了我們下下禮拜我就決定我已經確定說我會排夜報了對這沒問題那關於這邊的左密所做的情形這部分呢因為有委員有意見我會送我會送到這個詢問秘書處這邊是我把這個意見反正到秘書處去處理這部分程序問題如果處理結束之後那我們就進入到後面的這個部分我們首先好"},{"start":2133.291,"end":2160.893,"text":"今天的議程是邀請運動部政務司長鄭世忠來列席體育團體的治理全民運動的推展進行專題報告並被質詢首先我們先介紹在場委員萬美玲委員柯思恩委員我們現在來介紹與會的官員首先是運動部政務司長鄭世忠"},{"start":2165.378,"end":2185.234,"text":"運動部規劃司司長許興文運動部適應司司長林佩君運動部競技司司長謝富秀副司長藍坤田"},{"start":2187.97,"end":2213.573,"text":"我覺得非常好現在看到的運動部前面幾個司的司長都是女性這個顯示可能在我們女性已經有了一片的一個天就在已經可以在最高的體育運動部當中的扮演一個重要角色那運動部產業司副司長王少明王少明王昭明是嗎副司長王昭明"},{"start":2217.076,"end":2226.944,"text":"運動部產業司副司長不是副司長來嗎劉資鈞這倒是要確認一下不好意思運動部產業司的副司長劉資鈞運動部設施司司長蔡文娟"},{"start":2248.853,"end":2259.978,"text":"運動部國際司司長張敬旺運動部主計處處長張鳳源運動部人事處處長李靜怡運動部秘書處處長黃士林運動部資訊處處長孫浩淳"},{"start":2276.291,"end":2303.548,"text":"運動部法規會執行秘書蔡維旭全民運動署署長房瑞文國家運動中心執行長龔榮堂國家運動科學中心副執行長林家志好那現在請運動部政事長進行報告報告時間8分鐘"},{"start":2309.909,"end":2329.959,"text":"主席各位委員女士先生大家好今天應邀列席大院教育及文化委員會第六次全體委員會議針對運動部對體育團體之治理與全民運動推展進行專案報告以下僅就特定體育團體治理與全民運動推展相關措施進行檢要報告敬請各位委員指正與支持"},{"start":2330.859,"end":2359.102,"text":"特定体育团体以下简称协会基于国际运动社会参与者角色肩负选拔培训组队及参赛的任务其良善治理至关重要因此本部针对协会会务业务运作财务管理利害关系者参与运动员权益等面向一定有相关措施辅导协会持续精进针对国际综合性赛会支代表队本部与国训中心将持续辅导协会依依规定"},{"start":2360.263,"end":2369.109,"text":"訂定及公告領選辦法另外協會參與國際單項運動組織正式錦標賽代表隊本部落實要求協會依規定訂定領選制度及培訓計畫經協會選訓委員會審議通過報本部被查後公告"},{"start":2380.337,"end":2399.868,"text":"為確保選手權益並強化決策參與本部將持續優化意見表達及申訴處理機制運動員委員會以縣議選手選舉方式產生本部推動運動員委員會委員選舉制度改善以往的協會理事長推薦制度建立縣議國家代表隊選手與協會間常態性溝通與對話管道"},{"start":2403.73,"end":2416.655,"text":"組成更具代表性的運動員委員會並培養未來參與協會公共事務的人才於114年10月17號函請各亞澳運協會以本部訂定之實施計劃及範本修正組織檢責及訂定選舉實施原則提經協會理事會審議通過之後函報本部來報查"},{"start":2427.35,"end":2445.395,"text":"會避免選手或教練意見被忽視或處理不當本部要求國訓中心及各協會設置申訴管道並建立明確的受理審查等處理程序目前國訓中心已設置線上溝通平台受理正式書面"},{"start":2446.255,"end":2453.822,"text":"申訴與意見反映並定有處理標準作業流程各協會皆已設置申訴評議委員會將輔導各協會依申訴處理程序辦理"},{"start":2458.59,"end":2487.094,"text":"為主動關注收集涉及運動員權益的意見與需求本部於114年11月3日召開運動員權益諮詢會議由李部長親自主持邀請現役選手出席與會後續將不定期召開會議以適時滾動修正相關政策為讓關心台灣體育運動發展的民眾運動員有充分表達意見之管道本部與建制部長姓湘廣納社會大眾的建議"},{"start":2488.766,"end":2506.016,"text":"另外因應國際性別平權趨勢社會期望協會強化決策組織組成之性別平權本部將持續強化相關措施促進運動平權發展包括性別平等納入補助經費審查指標"},{"start":2510.744,"end":2529.504,"text":"輔導協會與組織當成徵定專項委員會之組成任意性別不少於三分之一之規範研議修正國民體育法原則規範協會理事會及監事會之組成以任意性別不少於三分之一若為若有任意性別參選人數不足情形則不在此限"},{"start":2530.697,"end":2551.999,"text":"另外依據國民體育法特定體育團體輔導訪視及考核辦法辦理訪評作業並將訪評結果公告後續依訪評結果輔導協會改善及作為本部經費輔助之依據本部也定有相關規範及措施輔導協會建立完整的財務管控機制"},{"start":2555.071,"end":2569.197,"text":"輔導協會財務自我檢核及管控措施方面經費收支及工作執行情形於每次理事會議時提出審議並由理事會送請監事會監察另要求協會財務報告應經會計師辦理查核簽證"},{"start":2572.799,"end":2596.849,"text":"在本部对协会财务全面查核与要求透明问责方面规划以两年为一轮完成协会之全面财务查核一次查核两个年度并委托专业会议专业会计师办理查核查核范围全面包括补助款及协会自筹款并将查核报告公告于网站"},{"start":2598.803,"end":2625.577,"text":"另外也規劃補助協會聘請專業之會計人員以利協會建立機制並落實相關財務公開透明的政策在全民運動的推展方面會推動全民運動全民化與社區化發展促進競技運動全民化形塑運動文化提倡全民運動增進國民健康的核心目標進而提升全民運動風氣"},{"start":2627.847,"end":2643.035,"text":"在海洋、水域、山林、新興、極限及民俗運動多元發展方面透過跨部會合作如海洋委員會等單位推展海洋水域運動聚落整合運動場域設施優化及資源投入"},{"start":2644.175,"end":2672.145,"text":"輔導民間團體辦理登山活動並辦理全國登山步道票選活動國際登山產業論壇及全國民俗運動會演活動推動產業鏈整合與永續發展推動具有本土地域性格的民俗傳統文化增進運動參與的多樣性在推動多元族群運動參與方面輔導運動團體賽事品牌廠商及地方政府等合作以分區運動競賽活動"},{"start":2673.706,"end":2684.32,"text":"或主題性運動活動方式搭配3月8日婦女節9月9日長安節等特定節日規劃適合多元族群專屬運動活動實踐運動平權與全民參與的目標在推動校園運動場域開放方面"},{"start":2690.968,"end":2718.318,"text":"結合教育資源強化校園運動設施的社區共享功能透過盤點並活化現有學校運動場域提供民眾就近安全的運動空間並進一步帶動運動產業發展與社區連結在輔導地方政府共同推展全民運動方面各地方政府各政辦理115年推展全民運動計劃的申請作業本部同步"},{"start":2718.798,"end":2732.423,"text":"进行114年运动在台湾2.0计划和解作业并盘点各县市需求作为116年规律运动中程计划之参考建构中央地方顾问三级推动体系"},{"start":2733.629,"end":2741.613,"text":"本部與運動員為核心全力推動協會良善治理確保選手與協會間雙向溝通與權力保障並建立財務責任與問責機制促使協會組織決策者自律與內部流程正規化"},{"start":2752.518,"end":2766.894,"text":"提升協會監督管理效能本部也承載提倡全民運動增進國民健康的核心目標以推展運動向下扎根形塑運動文化推動競技運動全民化與全齡化與全齡化"},{"start":2767.675,"end":2793.501,"text":"擴大全民運動參與增進運動參與之多樣性創新運動生活挑戰運動極限發展民俗及打造健康活力台灣為使命建構共享卻友善的運動環境邁向全民運動全民健康的理想願景以上報告敬請各位委員持續給予本部支持與指教相關詳細內容請參閱書面報告並祝各位委員健康如意謝謝"},{"start":2797.315,"end":2809.767,"text":"好謝謝鄭市長的口頭報告那我們現在進行答詢答那每位出席質詢委員是8分鐘必要時就延長2分鐘列席委員質詢時間為4分鐘"},{"start":2812.569,"end":2836.421,"text":"登記截止的時間為上午的10時30分委員如果臨時提案請於10時30分前提出並與本會委員吳佩奕質詢結束後隨即進行處理處理提案時若提案委員及聯署委員均不在場原力不予處理首先請發言登記第一位的萬美玲委員質詢"},{"start":2843.696,"end":2854.541,"text":"有請 今天部長沒有來 有請次長好 請鄭市長次長好 請教一下你今天部長為什麼沒有來"},{"start":2855.883,"end":2877.696,"text":"包委員 我想今天是專題報告 按照慣例 我們就是應立法院的要求有指名有我這邊來 所以可以出席沒有 專報部長也可以來啊 誰說專報部長不能來包委員 我們部長下一次業務報告一定親自出席我請教一下那個 朝偉今天部長有請假嗎因為今天所討論的我時間暫停一下好"},{"start":2879.287,"end":2881.832,"text":"跟委員會跟萬維來說明一下這一次的是專題報告針對的是運動部對於"},{"start":2890.026,"end":2919.666,"text":"所属的单项的协会的部分还有做全民的运动的一个推展来做专题报告那因为这个部分是一个特别是专题那我们根据他的属性因此的行则是所属负责业务的一个次长跟他的当初之前包括他在群议所负责的那当然就是当初的正署长现在的正次长来进行但是最能够针对议题来进行的所以我想这是非常的合理的所以部长今天有请假"},{"start":2920.686,"end":2946.302,"text":"這我們沒有邀請他沒有邀請他我們沒有邀請他我剛才說因為這是專題報告不是業務報告OK那業務報告的部分當然是部長你會出席那因為這次的屬性是針對這兩個部分就對了就已經說協調過了謝謝好謝謝朝委的說明這樣子我們理解不過呢本期還是要講一下這個專題報告其實部長剛新上任其實我相信他也應該做了很多工會了解好次長來我們請教一下"},{"start":2947.763,"end":2966.301,"text":"我们增益要部长今年在7月9号全国教育局处会议的时候他有宣布说要请各县市的教育局处两周内去盘点全台的中小学求聚器材做什么要开放给我们的民众地方的民众在放学跟假日到校来运动的时候借用这件事情你一定知道"},{"start":2966.761,"end":2987.415,"text":"那一宣布基層教師學校志工都反彈那他們認為這次會增加行政負擔還有管理各方面的問題所以次日張廖萬堅次長就已經講說利益雖佳但容易引起誤解後續會請體育署審慎評估跟基層學校溝通讓有意願的學校來示範請問一下評估的結果是什麼"},{"start":2988.349,"end":3010.924,"text":"報告委員 目前我們在那次...要講重點好不好 因為今天時間有限大概有五個縣市來申請他們主動來申請我們當然之前有辦過說明會目前大概是兩百多萬的經費因為目前牽涉到...所以現在有五個縣市基礎學校"},{"start":3012.492,"end":3030.372,"text":"48所学校有5所县市48所学校所以有可以配合但看起来就是多数的学校其实是没有办法配合的包括有没有强迫对 也不会强迫好 那我们就看你这个政策刚刚有讲你这些球具 器材只要他们有来申请所有的经费都是运动部来出吗"},{"start":3031.393,"end":3048.863,"text":"預算都編在運動部嗎因為我們目前是限制在說給各縣市的補助最高九成那我們現在簽到行政院來看看是不是可以專案來解除這個九成的限制所以現在你的意思是說如果有該縣市的學校願意來辦我們給他九成剩下一成還是要縣市來編預算來做是嗎"},{"start":3050.464,"end":3079.483,"text":"目前是按照规定是这样但我们专案前OK好那这无疑第一个这个政策下去跟基层的沟通也不够及时也不够明确那会引起很大的反弹所以本来利益良好反而让大家觉得非常厌恶那第二个呢预算看起来还要麻烦地方的县市政府我觉得也不太对那看你是不是应该要打破那但是呢如果现在有县市这个学校要办的话那怎么去管理这批东西那人员如果在假日跟这个下班以后"},{"start":3080.504,"end":3084.399,"text":"不只是器具喔 還有加班費喔那這個加班費運動部有沒有一起編進去"},{"start":3085.831,"end":3112.466,"text":"澳委員目前這部分還沒有聽縣市政府提出這樣子的理由所以你看看如果沒有你一樣又要增加教育局處事的一個負擔所以本席這樣講如果我們經過溝通以後願意辦的人他自然有他已經可以去接受但是第一個預算經費我們要足額去來購買第二個所產生的這些行政人員的加班費然後相關的這些不管是警衛的費用等等"},{"start":3113.486,"end":3140.157,"text":"我覺得運動部要盤點一下是不是這個預算也從運動部這邊來支付這可以做到嗎是包委員我們現在示範的時候我們會傾聽地方的聲音我們會針對這些一些過程來說再來本席看到全民運動署在115年的預算中編列了2億這2億上面寫要配合校園開放推動全民運動所需的器材請教一下你剛剛所說的要補給學校就是這2億的錢嗎"},{"start":3141.277,"end":3155.131,"text":"包委員那這部分是配合我們在做全民運動的推廣如果學校願意配合校園開放讓我們的社區這些不管運動事業或是俱樂部能夠跟學校有一個合作的話我們來獎勵學校在他們的這個錢就給學校對是這樣嗎對"},{"start":3157.393,"end":3183.486,"text":"那就是說不管是哪一個社團哪一個社區他要到學校辦活動那學校如果同意的話我們就把相關的經費補給學校是這樣嗎包委員應該說是我們會經過這些來申請要跟學校有一個合作的機制所以補社團補社區應該是社區的俱樂部他們來跟學校要求要合作如果學校願意配合把校園開放對嘛 那你這個經費是補給誰我們會補助學校它的消耗性然後學校再給他"},{"start":3185.908,"end":3201.889,"text":"沒有那是學校學校的屬於學校的消耗性器材消耗性器材好那如果是屬於學校消耗性器材跟本席剛剛所講你這個買這些球具啊這些器材啊等等啊我看起來其實蠻重疊的啦所以呢我想不管是哪一筆預算請你們把它這個"},{"start":3203.651,"end":3229.407,"text":"序名清楚否則在預算的時候其實我們可能還會再來討論一下好再來青春動資券體育署那時候的體育署就您在的時候112年就開始發放青春動資券請問一下我們發放這個動資券給16到22歲的青年原因是什麼因為這個年齡層的學生在我們的規律運動的比例是偏低偏低原因呢"},{"start":3229.958,"end":3245.211,"text":"就是可能因為課業壓力或是我們在這部分全面的推廣所以我們希望未來能夠增加很好嘛所以本席之前我們也是非常贊成那也很支持但我們來看一下這個表格你現在符合的人數"},{"start":3246.112,"end":3264.302,"text":"差不多大概就是145萬150萬這個上下可是我們看到領券率從112年的52%那麼到113年的37%到114年33%沒有人要來領啊你的美意怎麼回事沒有人要接受這個美意啊"},{"start":3264.682,"end":3291.071,"text":"沒有錯 您講的沒有錯所以這部分就是我們現在在檢討我們是不是要做一個轉型所以這部分我們正在部內也在研議是不是要轉成一個運動幣或甚至跟衛福部有一個跨部會的合作所以這部分我們正在轉成運動幣 好所以本席好像也有了解你要轉成運動幣發放的對象本來是16歲到22歲但你想要改成16歲以上的民眾皆可登記抽籤 是這樣嗎"},{"start":3292.651,"end":3322.082,"text":"包括有人接觸還在研議當中但有這個研議的案子嗎有這樣的研議案子有為什麼會這樣想因為我們現在講全民運動因為那個領取率太低所以你想衝高領取率但你卻忘了你卻忘了在體育署的時候你做動資券的本質就像您剛剛自己講的是要鼓勵16歲到22歲不管他科業壓力經濟的狀況等等我們這個動資券就是很大的誘因嘛那如果今天你把16歲到22歲改成16歲以上的民眾皆可登"},{"start":3323.183,"end":3338.835,"text":"那按照現在我們現在10月到22歲他領取率只有33%搞不好會變更低或者在我們有限的動資券裡面恐怕會讓不是這個年齡層的人他領走了那你當初的美意就沒有達到啦你的青春動資券就不青春啦"},{"start":3339.451,"end":3354.765,"text":"報告委員當然我們現在研議的不叫青春運動幣但第二個我們這也反映出我們的全民運動規律運動這件事情需要大力的去推展才有可能讓全民的運動這件事情能夠去投入這也是從青春運動日券我們得到的一個結論"},{"start":3355.505,"end":3381.522,"text":"我们为什么要设立全民动物署就是希望全龄化这部分一起来加益我同意但是本席给你一个建议我觉得您从在体育署的时候提出的利益良善16岁到22岁的学生我们可以去鼓励他所以是不是你们在研译这个运动币的时候本身希望能不能维持我们让16岁到22岁的学生他一样是可以去领取这个运动币但是我们也可以开放22岁以上再来做筹钱"},{"start":3382.182,"end":3403.542,"text":"我想這樣的一個案子可以維持你之前希望讓年輕的孩子可以參與率提高那這個希望這個次長待會去研議一下好嗎好謝謝委員好那最後一個我想運動部現在有提出來這部長上任以後要求單項協會在這個運動委員會上面有一些改變跟改革"},{"start":3405.503,"end":3428.013,"text":"就是說我們現在在10月17號韓文去44個所謂的單項運動協會希望它在推動運動員委員會的時候要用選舉的方式來產生這樣的一個計畫我想請教一下你這個文也發出去將近一個月的時間了目前有多少單項協會去修改了這樣的辦法"},{"start":3429.524,"end":3447.118,"text":"包委員據我所知應該是前兩天我們有辦一個說明會那這部分我是不是請市長就給我一個數字就好啊有多少我們12月底前會目前12月底前協會會提送他們的辦法那目前都沒有"},{"start":3447.478,"end":3473.231,"text":"目前還沒有因為我們前兩天才剛好 如果目前都沒有事實上現在已經11月多了我看起來時間其實蠻緊迫的啦那但是我不禁要問啦原來我們是希望就是說這個運動員委員會因為都攸關於運動員本身的權益嘛那所以你們是希望說讓這個進一屆的啊或是在一年之內有經過賽事這些現役的這個選手他們可以來參與表達他們的意見我覺得利益很好但是有沒有去注意到一件事情就是說"},{"start":3474.291,"end":3496.302,"text":"這些在這個近一屆或近一年有參與賽事的這些選手他們有沒有多餘的心力可以來做這個運動員委員會的這個事情如果我們只是一廂情願說我們要讓他來做開放可是事實上有多少人可以這樣來送這是第一件第二個也就是說如果到時候都沒有你所謂的現役的近一屆近一年的這個選手來登記來參與的時候"},{"start":3498.763,"end":3506.002,"text":"那是不是還是回到這個理事長來推薦那我們怎麼樣去破除掉這個過去認為不公平不透明"},{"start":3506.997,"end":3529.906,"text":"保護委員當然我們李部長在下週會到親自找國訓中心跟我們國家隊的選手們來做一個說明座談那當然也是鼓勵他們能夠來登機參選再來運動員委員會他設立有些事情不是鼓勵就做得到當然當然但是就是我們設置會議不會那麼頻繁最重要的是我們在選訓的制度上面經過去經常發生一些漏洞而這些現役選手以他們目前的狀況他們能夠給選訓"},{"start":3531.687,"end":3547.038,"text":"委員會一個比較直接的建議所以我們當然未來希望我們的選訓辦法能夠先經過運動員委員會先幫忙看過是不是有哪些遺漏之處或是不夠完整之處然後再來送選訓委員會來做進一步的建議好 為了我們的運動發展能夠更好"},{"start":3547.398,"end":3566.347,"text":"很多的面向我們現在都要從頭開始或是在做一些改革或是在做一些加強但是本席希望我們在改變的那個時候有很多的事項我們方方面面都要去顧及到才不會顧此失彼所以辦法或是配套那每一個計畫當中我們都要去詳實好不好好 謝謝委員好 謝謝汪美玲質詢我們現在請到柯志恩委員"},{"start":3581.663,"end":3610.701,"text":"谢谢赵卫我们是不是请郑次长请郑次长委员长次长早我想运动部宣布要来全面推动这个体改2.0这个三支箭将透过这个落实辅导跟监理分工还有改革这个运动员委员会还有财务全面查核要来增加这个协会的一个效率我不知道体改2.0到底会不会成功但是你是不是先请问一下体改1.0为什么会失败"},{"start":3611.584,"end":3631.322,"text":"報告委員我想外界大概就是針對我們過去在輔導面跟監理面因為都混在經濟組所以你們有做過檢討就對了對那第二個是財務的部分我們沒有真正去就是過去比較尊重協會所以造成現在你們有第三方就是有關於會計師會從外部會計師會進來"},{"start":3633.424,"end":3656.931,"text":"不只是會計師進來還有我們希望還有其他的作為那我們就一一來檢核一下好了我們先從第一支箭開始好了輔導跟這個部分我現在請問一下啊審計部在公佈了這個有關於我們的足協講白話的足協的報告體育署補助足協參加國際賽事不管是在機票款不管在轉播價格在113年再度出現拒而操之的一個狀況"},{"start":3658.391,"end":3676.269,"text":"次長你看過這個報告嗎而且他特別提到的有五項的這個球賽裡面呢都比預計超出非常的多超支比例達140%跟200%而且他直接直屬這個體育署並沒有落實經費這個編列跟合理性次長有看過這個部分嗎"},{"start":3677.23,"end":3697.877,"text":"但是呢我必須要說令人比較困惑的是你這個最新的運告這個運動部最新的公告就113年特定體育署訪評的結果足協的五項的指標你竟然是全部通過你們現在是要告訴我們是說審計部是審核不公還是你們這個體育署當初的體育署你的審核都是在過水的為什麼造成這麼大的一個落差"},{"start":3701.858,"end":3723.622,"text":"包委員我想這問題大概出兩個層面第一個省紀部當然他有提出這樣子一個覺得足協這個經費過高但是呢目前我們知道在合法性方面並沒有違反法律第二個他的考核的部分反平我們的指標其實沒有事實上我們必須要嚴重的面對這個真實的問題協會還有包括體育署"},{"start":3726.463,"end":3749.091,"text":"在核爆的部分在审核的部分从过去到现在就是常常有放水的一个状况这个是我们要直接面对的一个问题而且当你问到的时候呢你还特别告诉我们没有特别的意见都已经有这么多的疏失了你们最后的综合的访问意见竟然是没有特别的一个意见就是转播经费虽然他有超支但是超支的部分是他自筹"},{"start":3749.929,"end":3771.864,"text":"没有问题啊但是除了这个部分里面省级部讲了这么多的状况然后你们给一个结论竟然说没有特别的意见我今天就要特别直指我们一块让你合并来说有关于第二支接有关运动员的委员会部分刚刚外媒体委员特别提到了当然你有很多你自己的想法但是呢我们都是认为次上也都认为运动员委员会的这个选举的制度"},{"start":3772.384,"end":3795.758,"text":"是否有没有办法改变这个选手跟这个协会之间的关系其实呢利益良善但是你知道有很多的选手反应吗很多人就开始说你即使选上了对于决策的影响力到底有多少是否呢你表达意见协会是不是一定造作而且呢运动员代表发言会不会被缺货算账没有缺少者保护你怎么样面对这个所谓排挤的风险还有呢"},{"start":3796.878,"end":3816.567,"text":"運動員委員會他缺乏法定獨立性的跟經費你到時候會不會變成一個附屬的一個形式性的諮詢會不會有這些問題如果這些問題持續存在的話這怎麼算是第二支箭報告委員您的這個部分我們會請經濟師待會去把它去做一個後續的研議的時候把它列入參考但是報告委員我們"},{"start":3818.068,"end":3830.834,"text":"運動委員會這樣子的一個選舉的一個代表的這個制度重新改善就我剛有回答萬美玲委員講一樣我們是希望選手最在意的選訓這件事情我們能夠讓他一樣啊選手選訓的問題你協會是不是會照做啊"},{"start":3835.236,"end":3856.13,"text":"运动员会是看过这个部分嘛你到底他们还是一样你所有的程序都在但是到底会不会所以到底运动员委员会是跟运动员工会你们彼此之间是一个互补的关系还是排斥的关系这个目前为止都请次长你放在心上因为这次反映出运动员的心声你刚刚说选训制度运动员就是很担心即使提出了意见"},{"start":3856.69,"end":3872.851,"text":"协会如果不承受的话其实讲的也是白发反而让他们变成秋后算账所以这个部分里面我们提出来继续我们来看一下财务的全面的查核这个真的是一个最大的问题第一个我们必须要说这个问题到底有没有改善这是审计部所提出来的"},{"start":3873.211,"end":3893.377,"text":"选手必须先带电款项这边我们提出来了还有呢经费的核销真的是作业非常的冗长而且很重要的去为及时拨付选手这个各项款项给选手这是大家非常关心这是以前发生的你现在有的部分里面你这些大家所担心的这些问题你到底提出什么样的一个改善"},{"start":3893.897,"end":3918.465,"text":"報告委員我想這部分我們從三個層面第一個我們以前沒有那麼密集的查核我們現在在查核部分會加強第二個我們在整個和解的作業方面我們會去做簡化包括國訓中心目前在研議是不是讓學友在國外的時候就可以進行線上的一個核銷第三個我們在整個的和解的部分我們希望撥款的部分能夠儘早因為說實在很多協會就是因為"},{"start":3918.865,"end":3939.624,"text":"这都是长期存在的问题的你们要立即选手不合适然后呢你们拖欠选手补助你们在协会的漏息从过去到现在我们不但就说你就是要财务要透明这就是你2.0很重要的一个部分嘛而且本来就是要直接播誉你为什么要搞那么多的复杂你完全违法诶这边就已经讲得很清楚了诶"},{"start":3939.964,"end":3955.437,"text":"那這個部分當然每個協會狀況不一樣啦但是在財務狀況比較差或是理事長的部分財力電錢的財力能力比較差的情況之下的確會發生這種情況但也不是全部啦所以說這個就是選手給我們反映這個一定要徹底的來去做一個執行了"},{"start":3955.657,"end":3980.528,"text":"我們在主計這部分核銷簡化以及撥款這部分我們會進還有我剛說查核的部分雖然你們今天信誓旦旦告訴我們你們都有找外部的會計師但對不起喔會計師通常只是簽資產負債就好這個所謂拿出來的發票跟你這邊可以核對就好至於裡面的內涵是怎麼樣有些時候會計師也都不太去管的啦這也是一個問題啦有在內部原因要去教這些會計師在哪些的層面是我們要去查核的"},{"start":3980.808,"end":4008.183,"text":"那你要不要交会计事前先查一下你们这个部分虽然上次国讯中心我们上去去访问的也谢谢国讯中心给我们非常非常非常清楚的一些的指点我们非常感谢但是我还是要讲你根据审计部的这个部分你看一下你本来核定消费器材服装费等等之类你提报50人每个人是预估是1万块但是你这个减核的时候包括尼巴嫩的这个部分明明签售的人数只有34人"},{"start":4009.284,"end":4038.3,"text":"然后呢你们给人家要求是50人签收单也没有详细的用品项量跟这个数量然后你还让他过这种事情非常的多啊这种事情非常的多啊我相信他们会很快对啊你看你每次都是给人家说准与和解完全通过就完全也不演的里面的细项是什么你们也完全没有特别再去讲这个部分啊这是长期以来的问题啊这是怎么讲你们讲那么多什么会计师等等之类这就是活生生的例子次长这要怎么办"},{"start":4038.82,"end":4051.71,"text":"報告委員我想這部分也當然牽涉到我們的業務單位我們國訓中心的承辦人也說得實在他們也很辛苦每一張單據都在查核但的確有這樣漏洞那國訓這邊也看到這個缺點有在做改善"},{"start":4052.52,"end":4072.93,"text":"这个是很久了你看看嘛27个单项协会培训的计划中17个协会没有在期限内里面来办理这个和解但是呢你们减核标里面全部写okokok一路ok到底这就是我们所说的嘛为什么每一次我们都觉得说财务要公开透明但是呢我们所呈现出来的你们就是"},{"start":4073.49,"end":4101.836,"text":"我说实在的放随两个字或是你给人家方便嘛就像你说的大家都很辛苦然后大家辛苦不代表你每样你都可以完全不审核的状况之下全部都给予通过啊否则你如果是这样的话干嘛审计部干嘛要来纠合你们不是吗那如果说这个问题都没有办法解决的话你其实6.0如果6.0都没有用1.0已经有一些失败例子你提出2.0如果这些问题我们刚所提到这些问题目前都还存在的话那你6.0有什么有什么绩效可言"},{"start":4102.636,"end":4120.375,"text":"我想這在協會的最根源的問題在協會的財力跟人事費方面我想這部分我們其實一個螺絲一個螺絲慢慢在矯正當中所以我們現在其實很多的層面有在幫忙協會希望他們在人事方面能夠把薪水調高之後找到更好的行政人才"},{"start":4120.775,"end":4135.453,"text":"才不至於一天到晚出現這種delay的情況所以說過去體育署裡面都有這樣的部分現在運動部很多的經費已經比較充裕了你在人力的這個提升上面也比較充裕的我們會比較大膽的作為不要再讓這些事情完全又一直不斷的否則就像我剛剛說的幾點零都沒有用還有我們有關運動產業條例"},{"start":4140.359,"end":4159.267,"text":"我们不断地告诉大家这个推动的这个这个进度到底是如何而且呢我们特别强调的注意性平的原则还有积极辅导这运动员工会或团体还有呢很重要制定并推动防制运动赌博的政策请问过去已经十个月了次长你们到底做了多少"},{"start":4160.95,"end":4186.482,"text":"目前我如果沒記錯的話應該是已經上網已經公告有嗎我還要你還是要問清楚你依照你的附帶決議的法案三讀後六個月裡面你要哪些運動賽事必須納入防堵的執法這個執法的部分裡面一定要說你一定要根據我們剛剛的這附帶決議裡面這是白紙黑字寫在這個地方的你們說了你們有嗎你們有在三個月之內做出這些事情嗎有告訴我防堵的執法已經出來了嗎"},{"start":4188.962,"end":4214.029,"text":"市長房主的執法出來了嗎不然我們這邊真的是在這邊講了老半天你們都不幫我們答應一回事這是政策但是沒有執法的要求啊你這邊有特別提到啊我們有關於這些的部分每一次你都跟我說相關規定啦就我的跟你講的部分裡面就我的裡面來說的話你們只有在11月3號才邀請相關部會對於賽事獎金門票收益還有等等這些三大指標來做一些所謂的一個討論"},{"start":4215.009,"end":4218.911,"text":"這是11月3號這已經在執行了我剛剛是說有關運動賽事防堵的範圍這個部分裡面的討論運動範圍討論的部分你們11月3號才來做討論那你過去一年都在幹嘛這部分我會請經濟師盡快他的範圍的確目前還在的確非常的複雜"},{"start":4235.047,"end":4255.983,"text":"复杂但是我所得到的部分你们11月3号才开始开会那请你过去我们所要求的部分到底在做些什么可不可以请市长你可以加紧不要每次我们到这个地方你们就会说然后都获得草原的共识然后到最后结果你们事情太多然后都没有一一来我们都会一一来定进度的好不好最后一个这也是蛮离谱的"},{"start":4256.943,"end":4281.092,"text":"運動部在掛牌之前我不知道你們是不是要盡快消耗大量的大專院校的補助案你們竟然要在核定公務裡面要學校到錯誤的網站進行填報作業次長你知道這是什麼網站嗎這是中國大陸的運動博弈網站你是要叫我們這個學校跟我們的學生下去下賭嗎下注嗎這會不會太離譜啊"},{"start":4282.472,"end":4302.023,"text":"包委員這部分我個人不曉得那我回去會請督導的次長來這是需要跟我們反映啊你叫他們填報資料就給了一個網站竟然是博弈網站這很離譜欸次長請你調查清楚一下好不好還是你要上網去看一下你也順便下個注一下"},{"start":4303.407,"end":4324.133,"text":"我沒有這個習慣我也沒這個習慣啊可是你確認人家是到這個網站去我只能說這個真是太離譜好不好請市長好好的督促啊不管在財務啊還在我剛說的這個填寫報告還有最重要是我們當初所訂的這些的法規請大家務必開會專家討論然後一切全部來告訴我們謝謝委員謝謝柯市政委員市長請回座"},{"start":4342.035,"end":4357.379,"text":"好 我們現在請劉書斌委員好 有請鄭次長好 請次長召委好好 次長好"},{"start":4359.198,"end":4374.196,"text":"我們現在看一下您的這個經歷從2018年就進入到政界或是說著體壇那到2022年的時候112年就進入到體育署署長那之前的時候你還是在體育"},{"start":4375.597,"end":4397.014,"text":"足球協會當中的祕書長到了今年升格之後就變成政務次長屆發言人這部分我們就是恭喜你說關應橫銅當然被委以重任這部分我們繼續再看一下這個重任這部分當然有相對的責任也要承擔起來我們來看一下就是在協會的質疑這部分當然是你過去在當署長的時候最重要的責任"},{"start":4397.634,"end":4415.415,"text":"我們看一下您在任職中華足球協會的這個是秘書長的時候跟您的這個體育署長親吻請問足協因為你本身當過足協的秘書長裁員有哪些大概數額是多少您知道嗎報告委員足球協會據我當我當時只有接兩三個月不過據我當時和解的這個經驗"},{"start":4416.897,"end":4444.939,"text":"他们在从FIFA国际组总以及亚洲组总每年大概可以申请计划大概可以170到200万美金那其他呢是由体育署这边来做申请经费让选手来比赛参赛选训那其他大概会有赞助那赞助我知道他们每年大概会需要赞助寻求大概至少要4000万不然的话整个的会晤应该是很难推动"},{"start":4445.419,"end":4468.025,"text":"好 那你認為如果在足協的這一部分在全國的各單項協會當中除了直籃跟這個直棒之外他的這樣的一個經費是怎麼樣報告委員我覺得這樣子的比較是不公平的因為他的分級比各個其他的運動種類大好多從U12 15 17 19 21 23東開他的每一個隊伍非常的多直棒跟直籃一定是很強的對不對但是他的分級沒有那麼多所以說他賽事"},{"start":4474.987,"end":4491.919,"text":"對 我現在講的是說跟其他下面的比我現在重點在講這裡事實上就是這樣子它有到國外是從你們的一個就是所逐寫的這個報告當中財務報告當中截取下來所以我發現它國外的部分FIFA國際性能達到的是4.668國內的部分已經達到的是85.38總共有這樣子的是3億多3億多錢基本上除了直燃跟直磅之外應該是這邊應該算是最多的部分"},{"start":4504.747,"end":4526.888,"text":"那我們現在往下看的情況之下竟然還會出現到根據到目前的審計部裡面的報告這是最新的在10月份提出來是體育署在足協這部分竟然出現了採購裝備人力訓練這邊部分是不足的這邊都有超支但是超支的情況沒有到轉播的部分超支到200%這個比例"},{"start":4529.41,"end":4548.753,"text":"補助都還短少那未定規定簽收的問題都一直在出現那當然這邊涉及到是是有這個基金去進行包括國訓中心去進行我們看到這些部分剛剛柯志恩委員有提到的是這些的狀況都出現了很大的問題包括不只是男主包括女主也出現女主更是連了其他的"},{"start":4550.214,"end":4578.894,"text":"工會他們發展的出來是說竟然拿到說補助金額給了女足包括足球隊這部分的是上億元剛才提到是上2億多元可是竟然會出現到這麼多的這種場地訓練人員的部分包括更是後勤的嚴重不足都已經是工會呈現出來的部分甚至還有包括的是高官女足的部分還有這個包括女足的在師大這部分的話尤其在過去在教育部裡面還有這個所謂的"},{"start":4580.234,"end":4607.969,"text":"這個抽血的這樣的問題那重點就要跟大家請問院部長 次長的話你會看到在這個地方我們看到的這個運動的基金當中這個給他的基金當中選手培育跟這邊是屬於前選手部分還國際賽事轉播成本這些部分哪些部分應該是比較影響你的核心難尤其是我們剛剛看到的是運動產業發展條例的撥補原則是在這部分 請問你說一下在這部分中應該比例應該是怎麼樣"},{"start":4610.256,"end":4637.13,"text":"但如果在同樣的在撥補的時候你們原則應該是怎麼樣的原則撥補的比例上原則應該是怎麼樣我們目前給協會如果是他們參加一些他們自己的錦標賽包括他們的足球錦標賽或是邀請賽原則上我們是用年度計畫那一般的補助比例應該是一半左右吧那如果是他們來到國內來進行國際賽我們針對那個活動我們大概補助大概五到八成之間"},{"start":4638.271,"end":4654.911,"text":"那如果是亞培隊的話我想他們出去比賽你可以確定一個原則嗎前面是屬於人手選手培育時速交通國際賽制這邊這邊是我再強調一次這些錢不是由國家百分之百去補助很大部分是協會必須要去做自籌"},{"start":4655.939,"end":4684.728,"text":"那你們也是注意到這些的原則嗎當然沒有錯但是我們還想跟外界還是要釐清除了亞運奧運這樣子運動賽會是由國家全額補助不可能讓選手出到錢但是如果是在各單項的錦標賽邀請賽自由協會他們大家出蠻大的一個比例當然他們有時候會讓選手一電款這也是長期以來我們注意到跟協會的財務狀況理事長的電錢的能力都有關係所以這部分我們會去好好去檢討"},{"start":4686.048,"end":4699.747,"text":"市長你如果講到這邊是非常好我今天也看到報告上面有些相關的改革機制但是您過去的是做唯一的一任也是最後的一任的體育署署長這個部分應該不是問題現在才出現的你這邊部分出現了這麼多的問題"},{"start":4701.209,"end":4726.631,"text":"可能看到這邊的這麼多問題還是有些部分已經撥付還未結合這部分你有沒有針對在過去你在離開教育部之前你有沒有跟教育部長做自行處分這樣的一個動作說實在的這個無限選手申請補助一案不是自己的問題是全部的在學位的管理制度上面因為我們現在對駐學的要求是不可以欠選手錢那他也承諾我目前不會去欠選手或是教練的經費的錢那這部分應該已經改善了"},{"start":4729.585,"end":4754.881,"text":"但是我不太明確這裡講到無性選友申請是申請哪一部分你先只在針對這一部分我剛才說的從頭到尾 協會各種包委員 我們補助協會協會最大的問題是它內部的行政人員實在在面對選手以及教練的時候其實有一些溝通上面的確有出錯但是身為補助單位我們基本上還是人民團體沒有什麼理由說我今天體育署我今天補助足球協會我幫他負全責"},{"start":4755.862,"end":4783.125,"text":"你是監督責任喔我們是有監督沒有錯是監督責任但是很多的權責還是在地方他們自己人事 人民團體所以你又在推卸責任嗎這不是推卸責任是我們本來不是我們有很多的規定法條我們都有規定但是當它不執行的時候我們當然會有相對的懲處相對的懲處那有沒有局地的說明我們有懲處協會除非是上報的事嗎像這個男主啊或是我們今天都有懲處不管經費減扣或是其他人員的要求他資遣等等我們都有一些相對應的懲處不是沒有錯"},{"start":4784.505,"end":4809.677,"text":"那效果我們是不是因為你現在已經到運動部下面當然現在我們的足球協會目前他的理事長 秘書長 副秘書長全部辭職那這部分是屬於他們現在45天之內要重新要去做改選那這部分我們會督促足球協會希望能夠選出一個更好的一個人選出來還有成好的幹事部能夠來協助希望把這些事情能夠盡可能的避免當然我們身為那個監督單位我們會督促他把這件事情做好"},{"start":4810.222,"end":4827.296,"text":"我們期待看到這部分很重要是說我們希望你這個部分大概半年時間可以做好大概多少的這個比例可以做好在重要的這樣子報委員這也是為什麼我們要有一個運動員委員會這樣的一個實質讓選手現役選手的實質來參與讓他們了解到協會的運作到底是怎麼運作他們"},{"start":4828.477,"end":4841.29,"text":"預算財力怎麼去處理那當然還有一個是我一直跟同仁講或許我們也是要用電子金流這邊來限制它財務不能夠把經費互相挪用等等我們很多的作為都在研議當中了"},{"start":4842.006,"end":4869.246,"text":"我說我要看到一個成果的部分事實上是半年之內研議的制度要出來事實上這邊有個方向了但是是不是可以承諾大概這個制度出來然後大概一年之內有效果還是我覺得事實上變一年都太短太長了我們每一次有一些新的做法出來其實都會有好的效果出來了但是如果你這樣子的情況下你自己承諾那我們會努力讓它做好的那我們就半年我們看到至少在竹協這一部分有成果出現好不好做報告到委員會來好嗎"},{"start":4871.532,"end":4890.741,"text":"好OK好謝謝那我們繼續看到下面一個很大的問題是在於在防堵的這部分因為有了一個運動產創的這個運動產業發展條例這個部分已經有了一個承諾是說在半年之內因為是今年的去年的應該說是"},{"start":4891.761,"end":4911.346,"text":"我們看到是去年的這個通過年底的時候通過了那今年的他當初有一個附加的附帶條件是說呢他必須要定定的一個六個月之內要做一個認可賽事名單的流程要出現但到現在都還沒有執行一預期五個月這部分有沒有什麼樣的一個做法 回應"},{"start":4912.006,"end":4937.228,"text":"報告委員您這邊上面提到的第一個政府具配合提撥以及認可賽事名單認可賽事名單部分的確我們目前因為太過複雜我們開了兩次的專家會議我們還是需要再一點時間因為真的我們的賽事真的要切職業跟企業跟哪些賽事你們上次兩次是到什麼時候這個是到月初吧對不對最近是月初那再來是你們已經一年了結果才開兩次會議"},{"start":4939.499,"end":4964.385,"text":"對 那我們這個會請競技師這邊努力那再來是政府拒絕你們這邊這樣子有沒有去要求他做一些處分或是說要求他怎麼樣的一個包括委員 我們的賽事真的要再切這些我們真的找專案委員一起來討論真的太龐大 真的太難切了所以我們這些部分還需要一些競技師還需要一些時間好 那如果這樣的情況你們有的時間性沒有拉出來如果有時間性的話當然是很好是不是預計大概什麼時候會出來"},{"start":4966.752,"end":4983.273,"text":"因為這是立法院在修法的附帶決議竟然沒有達成事實上會影響到你的預算的效果事實上是很不好的經濟私事回報給我可能需要再半年的時間還需要半年的時間真的是太困難了這件事情另外的這部分是配合這個房土基金要點包委員那個配合提撥我不是很清楚但是運動員"},{"start":4984.694,"end":4999.775,"text":"他不打假球是天經地義的事情為什麼還要政府還要另外拿錢出來獎勵他這件事情我覺得需要開公聽會有大家取得一個共識我們才能夠來說這件事情就是你說的要需要研議的部分是嗎對 但是這部分目前我們覺得"},{"start":5001.926,"end":5024.117,"text":"理由上我們沒有辦法說服自己啦就是說你今天你不參與防堵我們要參與防堵信託然後我們還要相對拿一筆錢來獎勵這個選手可是問題是他不打假球是他應該要做的天經地義的事情那如果今天像職棒他是因為職棒打假球整個沉淪到底他們為了救自己的產業他們主動拿出他們薪水的部分或是"},{"start":5024.577,"end":5046.969,"text":"他們的企業經濟部份來做信託這是他們主動的行為那怎麼會政府在面對其他的這些籃球跟足球的部分我們需要提撥來獎勵他這個地方我們需要一點時間來這地方其實是有點像在所謂的公教人員這一部分不過是公教它包括企業的部分它其實有一些政府的撥補它是政府的員工不一樣啊"},{"start":5048.169,"end":5062.878,"text":"這部分當然是需要溝通的可是那你就必須把理由講清楚因為在你的這個十月份四月份的今年的召開會議當中並沒有呈現出來我想如果需要你們部裡面去召開公聽會什麼等等或是說需要委員我想還是你們部裡面去召開公聽會這樣"},{"start":5064.319,"end":5086.854,"text":"好 如果這樣子的話可以去讓大家可以理解不然因為沒有理由出來的時候會覺得非常奇怪因為本身政府有引導的作用也許是一個在過渡期間的時間內可以做一個引導的一個效果出來那到達大家都醒了之後後面可能不需要教這個部分可以做一個溝通了解那另外最後的部分就在於請那個房署長是不是房署長"},{"start":5088.291,"end":5105.305,"text":"防暑長生全民教育署這一部分關於說你上次有來做一個說明的時候特別是講到說跟要增加全民的健康的一個狀況那你現在跟衛福部的一個相關的一個聯絡怎麼樣他們又願意再做配合到先把體能的狀況先做了解"},{"start":5106.341,"end":5133.089,"text":"因為跟委員報告上次在委員辦公室這邊跟您說的一個說明我們會後大概也有跟衛福部的國民健康署這邊有聯繫上我們也有針對一些包括國民體制特別是針對科技檢測的部分我們這邊會做一個進一步的做特別是把之前國健署這邊他有設了很多的一些銀髮健身俱樂部之後我們這邊都會優先考量納入我們之後檢測的相關的一個據點"},{"start":5133.769,"end":5149.956,"text":"好 希望說跟作為跨部會合作的話跟衛福部合作的時候先把體能的部分的確定的資料先有了之後再繼續做一個再發展的提升的是我們跟就是衛社運動部裡面非常重要的一個職責好 就這樣子謝謝G往前慶幸謝謝好 我們謝謝周偉也謝謝次長接下來我們請下一位登記的張雅琳委員"},{"start":5166.704,"end":5192.47,"text":"好 請次長好 次長早安我想次長一定非常清楚知道我要問什麼問題就是有關於足協那前面其實很多的委員都已經提到了足協這段時間發生了許多的事件那我想我也就簡單的重述一下這兩年來這個足協每兩個月就在上新聞而且每次上新聞等一下 我的簡報筆不會動耶你有反應 抱歉可以時間暫停一下嗎沒反應"},{"start":5196.518,"end":5223.911,"text":"時間暫停好 謝謝那欸 等一下到底要按哪裡啊可以再暫停一次嗎他沒有反應啊暫停一次他欠我 都給我20秒沒有反應啊"},{"start":5225.542,"end":5226.749,"text":"還是你幫我按好了你幫我按好了"},{"start":5234.048,"end":5260.191,"text":"下一頁我想就是說這每兩個月足協就在上新聞而且爭議新聞一件比一件還誇張從剛開始的不管是場地也好或者是航班搭不上飛機女足男足都有遇到再來還有女足跟男足的教練都很短命都沒有辦法連續所以我想這一面足協顯示了足協的治理根本是一場災難"},{"start":5261.96,"end":5286.193,"text":"我想次長同意嗎同意因為我想這裡面就顯示三個很大的問題治理不正常治理的決策不正常然後我們的財務不透明然後我們的行政能力是非常的有問題的所以我想今天我就跟次長來討論一下這個結構性的問題因為我記得我不太確定我剛剛聽到次長是說李市長要留任是嗎還是要辭職確定辭職已經離開了"},{"start":5289.195,"end":5302.692,"text":"已经离开了好那像现在就是一个非常大的问题帮我下一页因为现在就变成是次长离开了秘书长也离开了里面留任的两位副秘书长也都是兼职的所以这变成是非常非常的混乱"},{"start":5303.735,"end":5326.444,"text":"可是呢其實足協從去年的2024年的壽司決算表呢總共從體育署跟國訓拿了2.16億再加上從AFC跟FIFA總共拿了4500萬相對來說其實是相較於台灣其他的協會來說非常有餘裕的一個組織喔但是呢現在剛剛講這麼多的問題所以呢我想要請教如果說接下來我們"},{"start":5327.684,"end":5352.153,"text":"運動部到底要用什麼樣子的方式來協助足協因為非常明確的是我們明年還有青年聯賽還有少年盃賽甚至還有亞洲盃的賽事我們要如何的來協助這個足協呢來確保我們的組織可以去運作我們的選手的權益不會受損目前運動部的想法是什麼幫委員這個題目太大了因為牽涉到"},{"start":5354.961,"end":5378.359,"text":"國際 競技 國訓等等很多的層面我想我們在過去看到足球協會雖然理事長有在幫忙還債還了將近六千萬但他們現在應該還有三四千萬的債務接下來我們當然要輔導他改選當然我們希望有人能夠勇於認識可以出來競選這個理事長再來就是我們在"},{"start":5379.6,"end":5407.369,"text":"他們的行政的部分我們其實同仁一直有在輔導他的行政作為但是當然他們內部也有在做檢討是不是內部的一些主要的幹部在溝通方面特別跟球隊的溝通方面出了一些狀況其實我在擔任署長的末期我就提到是不是足球協會這邊跟國訓中心以及工會這邊能夠每個星期坐下來視訊好好談一談"},{"start":5408.849,"end":5432.922,"text":"那現在是有進行嗎好像看來是沒有但我覺得這個美意還是國訓要回應一下有召開了幾次的會議包括有召開了幾次的會議就是由工會跟足球協會的教練跟選手一起參與從什麼時候開始應該是那時候署長交辦以後我們馬上就進行"},{"start":5433.762,"end":5457.754,"text":"應該就是幾個月前開始嘛對不對幾個月前開始嘛有定期的嘛因為我想我這邊有一個建議啦我希望就是運動部不管是國訓還是怎麼樣我們一定要組成一個可能是協作小組來協助主協而且是要定期的所以我希望這個定期的會議如果有相關的進度也可以讓我們這邊有所掌握好嗎讓我們來了解北京拿了國家這麼多的補助"},{"start":5458.294,"end":5468.509,"text":"而且基層的足球俱樂部這麼蓬勃的發展足協沒有搞好真是愧對現在的孩子再來第二個問題就是有關於財務的部分"},{"start":5470.069,"end":5491.002,"text":"那我想問一下就剛剛其實許多委員都有提到就是在審計裡面有講到說我們的補助案呢補助案例如機票轉播採購都有單價那可是呢跟市場的行情比起來都比較高然後呢這個同樣的一份報告交到了審計部交到了體育署"},{"start":5491.883,"end":5516.308,"text":"一邊有問題一邊沒有問題那我想了解到底是發生了什麼樣子的問題會造成兩邊的採計認定是不一致的報告委員我想在訪評這部分的會計的財務狀況今天他只要是合法依照一般的會計的流程有做到這部分我們都能給通過當然這部分目前有點出來他的不完美喔所以這塊我請那個未來的重規師這邊能夠"},{"start":5517.93,"end":5546.398,"text":"把這個部分能夠再深入看看能不能去做優化我想因為次長這個問題大家已經講了很多次了那每次運動不管是您過去也好我們常常都會聽到說我們會嚴格落實我們會加強等等可是這已經不是第一次了其實已經說了非常多次後來我其實有提出就是說它的財務連續兩年惡化我是要求要把電子金流弄出來讓我們知道它的金流流到哪裡去而不會去挪用經費"},{"start":5547.478,"end":5570.954,"text":"那當然在他的經費使用方面我覺得最常出問題倒不是經費本身而是行政作為比方說你機票你明明可以在幾個月前或你可以先框一些座位而不用等到最後選訓教練選拔出來了然後離比賽日期很近了才來買機票那這部分當然機票就會貴了嘛所以我覺得很多部分其實是在行政作為而不是他的會計本身"},{"start":5571.656,"end":5595.427,"text":"我想這個因為就是行政作為是一個問題但是我覺得這個包含轉播費的部分也是實務上的確也是到底為什麼買到這麼貴嘛這也是不合理的地方嘛不過它是它自籌所以這部分我們的確也當然我們那時候也跟審計那邊講了就只要有不合理我們當然需要移送減掉我們都移送啦但是目前看起來是因為它有招標它程序都合法"},{"start":5596.067,"end":5618.834,"text":"那這部分我們還是會勸說啦就是說這個本來就超乎行情這才不合理了對啊這不合理啊我們都有讓主席知道他們現在應該有改善了啦好沒關係喔我想剛剛有聽到就是說我們我也有從報告裡面有提到就是說你們兩年會多一次的這個財務積合的部分然後也會增加內控然後也會增加電子金流的部分那我希望我們不會只是一個強"},{"start":5619.574,"end":5648.625,"text":"不是只是在形式主義上面繼續強化而是真正的夠落實不然這些問題接下來還是會產生那我也有一個建議就是說其實我們在許多的不管是社福體系也好教育體系也好我們都有相關的評鑑指標我們是不是可以參考一下別人的評鑑指標來去做評鑑因為透過這個確實的評鑑我們才能夠給予相關的一些補助我們是不是可以再優化我們的評鑑指標呢"},{"start":5649.045,"end":5667.374,"text":"這個我們會努力不過我們也是都交給台評會他們也是專業的評鑑的單位但是我們會再持續跟他們提一下我們發生了這麼多的狀況是不是從他們的專業可以協助我們去訂出更合理的指標出來好 那我想問一下這個大概什麼時候我們可以來追蹤進度呢你們討論要大概多久的時間"},{"start":5668.683,"end":5682.204,"text":"目前重規司應該是在進行當中可能需要不過因為我們協會是明年大概3月開始陸陸續續改選我們希望在那之前是 所以我想請教一下時間是不是兩個月之內可以給我們一個你們"},{"start":5683.066,"end":5699.477,"text":"我們年底前會把它做好年底前研議的結果要怎麼去修改好不好讓我們的協會治理是可以更良善的好嗎那再來最後一個問題就是回到剛剛一直不停在強調的行政部分就是其實我在去年3月也有針對體育行政管理人才這個問題來跟次長來當時的署長來做討論"},{"start":5703.36,"end":5730.31,"text":"那當時署長也是說我們會研議建立相關的人才培訓機制但是我們從2019年看到現在體育行政是完全沒有舉辦的我們只有舉辦祕書長的職能計畫所以既然次長剛剛也一直在強調行政很重要那我們為什麼沒有召開相關的課程呢那接下來我們是不是可以有具體的規劃呢那時間大概多久我們可以"},{"start":5731.345,"end":5756.847,"text":"有相關的規劃呢包委員當時我是從委請主計處主計室針對各個協會的會計人員有做定期的上課這部分有做所以財務的部分我想各個協會目前有比較步入正軌那在選拔選訓方面的行政人員這部分我們會再請經濟師這邊來研議看看是不是可以做什麼樣的課程來做"},{"start":5758.268,"end":5784.82,"text":"培訓還有一般行政的部分還有一般行政的部分因為在我這邊我有聽到教練告訴我就是他有提供一些規劃訓練計畫可是我們的足協完全沒有依照這些訓練規劃去執行甚至攔截他的相關信件妨礙了教練進行相關的一個訓練賽的安排所以我認為這個一般行政的基本倫理也是很必要的因為這真的太離譜了"},{"start":5786.281,"end":5808.34,"text":"這部分是不是也可以有一個完整的我們對於行政不管是選訓也好一般行政各項業務的基本的訓練課程是不是都可以開出來呢大概什麼時候可以開出來相關的這部分我想我待會去是不是請那個我們的產業司這邊來協助來做規劃大概多久的時間我們可以來追我猜應該也需要三個月的時間吧"},{"start":5809.656,"end":5831.562,"text":"我們可不可以也都是在年底的時候呢因為一般行政嘛是不是可以兩個月我們現在年底之前要把明年運動部所有的細部的計劃出來其實他們真的我們還在爭駁好沒關係那我們就三個月好不好三個月我們要看到更具體的包含我們什麼時候要開課我們要開什麼樣子的課程可以嗎三個月之後我會追這份報告好"},{"start":5832.242,"end":5851.303,"text":"那再來就是說我也想要跟次長來討論一下一個有關於我們現在校園開放的問題就是說我看了太多的你們的報告裡面都在講說全民運動啊你們會做公司協力啊但是我覺得要回到一個非常精確的一個討論就是那場地到底在哪裡我們現在討論的狀況到底是什麼"},{"start":5854.417,"end":5868.318,"text":"對我們現在當然我們全民動物署現在正在在討論這部分就是他的制度還有我們我們那個機制然後等到產業發展中心成立的時候我們慢慢把這樣的一個機制交由產業中心去跟各個縣市的這個"},{"start":5869.64,"end":5888.741,"text":"教育局处跟学校来一起做合作那当然校园开放这件事情听起来简单但其实没那么容易毕竟学校对于把校园开放这件事情有很多的各方角力以及它的一些法令上的疑虑那这些都是我们现在一一要请全民动物署去跟国教署来做讨论的"},{"start":5889.383,"end":5915.916,"text":"我想請問一下因為其實我們現在就非常明確的說到兩個第一個是在我們之前辦那個社區足球運動會的時候許多俱樂部都有說學校對於場地開放非常非常保守最主要的原因就是單極涉及圖利的問題第二個還有安全照明一些噪音會造成的一些居民抗議所以最近我們也收到一個學校兩個俱樂部的澄清就是他們收到的學校告訴他們沒有辦法再租借場地給他們所以我想請教一下如果我們今天講全民運動產業化"},{"start":5917.657,"end":5945.765,"text":"那但是學校又擔心圖利的問題我們要如何解決這件事情呢保安委員這個就是我們要跟國教署去談把一個辦法制定出來讓學校的校長沒有這方面的疑慮那這個就是我們講的機制的部分好 那我可以再一個建議再補充一個建議是說我們除了這個機制出來之後其實等於是你把所有的權力都交到學校讓學校自己決定的時候校長其實非常害怕我已經跟幾個學校來討論過了校長其實非常擔心因為把責任丟到他身上是不是可能運動部可以跟教育部還有"},{"start":5946.425,"end":5969.58,"text":"邀請相關的各縣市教育局來做一個上位計畫根據我們國家要發展的幾個運動項目來制定說我們可能需要多少的場地做一個清楚的盤點之後再去跟教育局來討論然後讓教育局有一個可能一個鼓勵的計畫如果學校來申請可以補助他的一些不管是場地的圍管等等的費用我們可不可以用這個方向來包委員您現在講的就是我們現在規劃的方向"},{"start":5970.083,"end":5995.22,"text":"好 所以這大概什麼時候我們可以來追進度呢我們當然希望年底前這樣的機制盡可能能夠明確一點我們跟國教署正在密切討論我知道你們在盤點場地了啦所以你們是在12月底的時候我可以來追這個上位計畫嗎可不可以1月12月底嗎 因為剛剛說年底嘛所以我先確定一下1月開始嘛但是12月底之前我們會盡可能把它完成啦精確是完成什麼就是那個機制啦實施的辦法我們希望能夠出來這樣好 那12月的時候我就會來追這個機制謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":5998.8,"end":6021.131,"text":"好謝謝張雅琳委員次長請回座現在請范雲委員那個謝謝昭緯有請次長請次長委員好"},{"start":6021.996,"end":6047.743,"text":"次長早安本來我今天這個質詢是針對我們部長的不知道後來是換成次長您但我想部長要做好也都需要次長們把所有的工作都做好所以我還是針對原本要問部長的事情來問您今天我的主題就是談到因為部長上任的時候有談到平等這個部分"},{"start":6048.243,"end":6065.982,"text":"那他也在今年九月的時候我們立法院女子運動外交促進會簽署布萊頓吉赫爾星際女性與運動宣言的時候那部長在那邊見證他當天有講未來運動部將培育更多的女性人才積極接軌國際"},{"start":6067.924,"end":6081.148,"text":"那我後來查了一下發現其實這個布萊頓宣言過去體育署的時候就簽過了那個次長您知道嗎是那過去是什麼時候簽的您知道哪一年嗎應該2014的"},{"start":6084.672,"end":6108.704,"text":"2014那還更早因為我辦公室查到的是2020但是我發現簽了之後好像效益不高你們有照著做嗎就是你看一下就是女性選手這個我之前資訊的時候就有講到我們奧運獎牌女性選手奪牌的比例是58%可是我們的教練只有13%"},{"start":6110.545,"end":6131.3,"text":"中華奧會決策高層女性的比例只有8%欸可見就是說我們女性是在很不對等的沒有參與決策資源比較少女教練比例這麼低然後有驚人的成果欸那個署長所以你覺得你們有做到簽署的布萊頓宣言嗎"},{"start":6132.321,"end":6152.781,"text":"保委員在女性教練比例方面牽涉到選拔這部分我們的確過去佐利的比較低在中華奧會的部分我們其實有新聞過去也請他們協助那他們今年在選任委員方面新出爐的選任委員方面男女的比例是接近1比1的啦在選任的部分選任我講的是最高決策耶"},{"start":6153.221,"end":6173.011,"text":"對 就是因為你們都一直說什麼單項委員會啊我是說禮監事嘛因為一個組織譬如說我們台灣就要國會嘛他們的禮監事就是所謂的澳會委員這件事情那澳會委員的有分當然委員是由澳亞運的協會派出當然委員其他有大概70位是選任就是說他們去"},{"start":6174.339,"end":6189.674,"text":"我們要看最後的結果啊不管它怎麼產生的選任的部分它已經達到1比1的男女比例接近1比1但是最後的結果嘛因為你如果派的都是男的選的不就應該出來是女的嗎然後第二個是在協會的委員會的部分我有要求所有協會委員會一定要三分之一以上"},{"start":6190.214,"end":6215.096,"text":"据说我们不要玩文字游戏哦政府的中华民国政府的委员会三分之一性别比这个性别主流化已经做了很久嘛那你也知道那些委员会很多都是政府各部门派任嘛所以你就要去调节派任如果都是男的那你这个外面找的专家学的就要是女的才能做到三分之一啊所以这个也是用中华奥会的决策吧包委员"},{"start":6219.867,"end":6245.228,"text":"如果没有这样子的话我们签再多的协议都没有用我要讲的是我今天要讲的是你是不是可以给我们单项协会性别统计年报如果都没有看到你的统计我们怎么知道做得怎么样这里面应该要有几个内容薪资待遇这也是各国在讲运动有没有性别平等的重要指标"},{"start":6245.848,"end":6265.753,"text":"然後參賽年齡跟職涯的長度代表對性別比例培訓跟升遷的機會後勤資源分配你要先有統計我們才能看到運動平權怎麼樣結構性的改變那這個部分就是應該可以做到吧就是先給我們運動性別統計年報好不好"},{"start":6268.974,"end":6288.833,"text":"那從今年是2025年 明年就可以開始吧好可以喔 那個次長承諾 這裡我們會監督另外一個 次長你應該知道就是運動牌掛牌當天就有兩個女足公會跟臺灣運動好事協會就發表聯合聲明"},{"start":6292.496,"end":6306.505,"text":"說因為各單項協會常常不聽你們的雖然你們這個鼓勵措施我從上一屆當立委就開始用預算案然後你們就說慢慢再鼓勵對不對然後你今天的報告第六頁鼓勵了半天"},{"start":6307.796,"end":6310.58,"text":"8個協會有18.18%達到單一性別17個協會另外一個監事會你還分開來算理事跟監事還分開算38.64%"},{"start":6324.016,"end":6341.007,"text":"我們鼓勵了半天鼓勵了四年的話如果理事比較重要看理事的話才八個協會占18.18%做到這個三分之一性別比例那我們要做到真正全部的時候要幾年四年達到18%100%的時候要幾年"},{"start":6345.819,"end":6371.266,"text":"法委員在國體法的部分目前我們已經在研議在李建勢的性別比那個次長我們數學算一下嘛你們說努力了11年到115年這樣子努力了4年有8個協會做到李氏會占18.18%有做到三分之一性別比那這樣依這個速度推算百分之百都做到的時候要幾年所以要修法不是嘛不修法要幾年你說"},{"start":6372.645,"end":6386.548,"text":"沒有辦法了沒有辦法算不過包括委員我倒是有因為您的質詢我有做到一點就是我要求所有的委員會都要單一性別超過三分之一而委員會才是真正形成決策的重要的一個組織"},{"start":6388.34,"end":6411.626,"text":"各單項協會的委員會才是重點你們每次都跟我說委員會你協會都沒有你還要下面的委員會就是協會底下的委員會包括它的選拔也是選訓委員會成立出來的這個我們也不要再玩文字遊戲了兩邊都要啦是當然都要我們說立法院的國會性別沒有三分之一然後我們組成什麼委員會有這不合理嗎那我們一起來修法嘛這個部分那當然我們的版本都提出來了啦你的版本什麼時候出來市長"},{"start":6413.919,"end":6430.323,"text":"已經有草案了草案什麼時候送到行政院什麼時候公告什麼時候到立法院我們現在就是希望我們接下來配合國際法廣納各位委員的意見之後我們一起來做修法我的已經提出來很多年了那那個那您什麼時候送公告我們先問先講公告吧現在先先"},{"start":6439.757,"end":6461.027,"text":"現在是體育部這麼好的理想保養員我想目前就是我會督促他們就回去跟部長報告在國際法的修法我們希望能夠在這半年內你不用再跟部長報告了部長來上任前跟我見面的時候他主動說要做這件事是所以我說這部分我們希望在半年之內能夠把它完成這個修法好不好"},{"start":6461.267,"end":6480.263,"text":"這還要半年你說半年我們立法院完成還是公告我們當然是講完成這個會期我們希望努力把它下個會期把它完成掉但這個會期我們會推動下個會期完成掉那你兩個月之內就要公告了要不然來不及耶下個會期是到明年的六月底嘛明年六月底前要完成修法"},{"start":6480.743,"end":6499.987,"text":"我們希望往這個目標前進那你公告到行政院送出來都要時間您知道嗎沒有錯沒有錯我們做過運動部組織法我們知道那個程序什麼時候行政院應該送出來到立法院我們希望應該我現在拚三月的時候吧三月好那你什麼時候應該公告你就知道了吧"},{"start":6501.298,"end":6527.694,"text":"這個我們會努力那你兩個月內可以公告嗎如果你們都準備好的話那個市長說OK那我們會兩個月內公告那個團那個國體法你們的版本裡面一定會有禮監事性別筆好那我還有一點時間再講一下你看足協理事一位女性都沒有欸那個署長你知道我們女足效果就是成績很好吧對成績比較好你覺得這樣合理嗎不合理"},{"start":6529.275,"end":6551.484,"text":"那你知不知道當他們足協會員提出修正章程的時候要有性別比例的時候會員代表大會怎麼樣被嗆嗎您有聽說嗎那是在2023年年初的時候那時候我還沒有接所以我不曉得你不曉得那我告訴你被嗆說有本事選上全部給你們當也沒關係嘲笑人家沒本事選上"},{"start":6553.104,"end":6571.234,"text":"所以我想這個部分就是國體法的修法很重要不能讓人家要在自己的相關協會的章程要修的話還這樣子被嗆你剛剛已經提到就是兩個月內會提出你們的草案公告"},{"start":6574.055,"end":6588.164,"text":"那最後一點時間那個次長師大女主案當時你答應我的事情是就是五個聲明體育署聲明你們現在進度如何了包委員我們在今天下午"},{"start":6588.854,"end":6616.684,"text":"今天下午會有一個跨部會的會議把最後的因為我們第二次會議我們之前已經有諮詢會議那在衛福部跟教育部都有參與的情況之下還有很多法規委員會那麼原則第一個基於我們一個一個講好了你當時的聲明答應我的第一個成立專案小組全面清查運科計畫這個進度如何了法規委員這部分我們一開始有做但是在會議上法規委員提出一個蠻重要的一個見解就是說"},{"start":6617.744,"end":6631.811,"text":"基於信賴保護原則我們不應該在這個時候去責難這些老師他當時沒有申請IRB除非他把它拿去做發表那基本上就是嚴重違反不應該責難他們沒有做IRB這我有點聽不懂這是什麼意思是誰信賴誰保護誰你們答應讓他們不要做IRB喔"},{"start":6642.129,"end":6666.34,"text":"不是 因为当时没有要求那现在反过来去责怪说IRB不是国家的法令吗大学教授还要辅导我们有跟卫福部跟教育部都有做一个讨论有征得他们的一个同意那这部分是不是容许我们今天下午看完会之后呢我们到委员办公室这边来做说明我要讲的是次长你不要因为媒体现在不关注就轻放违反国家法令的人如果是你们"},{"start":6668.241,"end":6684.538,"text":"同意他們不用做那你們過去這個體育署現在這個運動部你們人很多都沒換就要負起責任啊包委員這部分我聽我說當時講的就是監察院這邊有在也在做處理對監察院當然那我們立法院你們答應我們的事情"},{"start":6685.559,"end":6712.246,"text":"幫委員 因為這個部分可能需要很長的時間做解釋啦我是不是讓我們會後來委員辦公室做解釋當時你答應要給我的完整的都做完的報告時間快到了吧是 那我也其實我們今天下午的會議其實我們諮詢委員會也有邀請委員辦公室的助理來嘛那因為當時因為有事情沒有到我們辦公室又不參與決策沒有錯 但是我們還是希望讓委員辦公室能夠知道我們這裡在進行什麼事情嘛"},{"start":6712.426,"end":6723.914,"text":"白紙黑字文字給我們啦我們辦公室又不是現場的你知道chat GPT可以隨時供你們諮詢對不對沒有問題好那什麼時候要完整的報告可以給我們辦公室"},{"start":6724.841,"end":6752.051,"text":"我們今天下午開完會理論上應該下個星期應該會議紀錄就會出來我們就會全部的嗎 五樣的嗎不要又說只有一樣喔報委我們還有一個流程還有其他流程要做我說這五樣嘛署長 次長我們大概是前三樣除了第四樣我們還需要時間之外一二三四我們目前都在需要時間你可以跟我們講你規劃的時間是什麼時候嘛好不好那要完整的這個報告什麼時候"},{"start":6753.932,"end":6779.57,"text":"應該下星期應該可以有一個初步的報告出來我們會繼續追喔是好OK好 謝謝委員好 謝謝范玉委員那次長請回座現在請郭鈺請委員質詢好 有請次長請次長"},{"start":6785.913,"end":6806.511,"text":"委員長市長我想這個運動部的成立其實大家都聚焦在今天那今天請您來其實我們還是要針對許多的單向協會的部分來進行這個結構性的一個探討那我想台灣的這個運動成績還有體育的一個成績我想是運動員他們的拼勁跟他們的家人"},{"start":6808.133,"end":6822.669,"text":"眾所支持但是在體制上其實常常都會先讓選手自己先去努力那之後回來再來繼續摸索這是我們看到許多的運動員在賽場上背後他們有這樣子的一個隱憂"},{"start":6823.59,"end":6846.079,"text":"那往往這些在賽事上其實獲得佳績的一個選手其實回到國內他們還是必須面對所謂的這個協會的不透明然後再來就是講住制度不明另外還有體系僵化的一個問題我想這已經不是一個案例而是很多的案例那我想這已經是長期需要改革的一個結構性的一個狀況"},{"start":6847.099,"end":6864.36,"text":"那我想請教一下就是目前我們知道其實台灣有許多的這個單向的體育的協會名義上雖然我們是說這個民間自主的來管理自主的來營運運作但實際上其實他是高度的仰賴我們的政府的一個補助"},{"start":6864.961,"end":6887.364,"text":"那我想這內部的一個決策還有選手的一個代表的一個席次經費的一些使用是不是還是不公開還是不夠透明還是會有一些問題甚至有些選手他會反應因為我沒有太聽話所以我也被邊緣化了我想這個是我們在線上有收到的這樣子的一個訊息那我想怎麼樣確保這些協會能夠真正的治理"},{"start":6887.984,"end":6911.846,"text":"落實那另外就是我們怎麼樣要求這個協會他們在公開他們的財務報告跟決策的一個記錄這個部分我們有沒有什麼樣的一個監督的手段想請教一下我們的次長我想大方向來看這些過去這幾個案子很多都是在行政員跟選手家長之間的溝通產生的一些誤解那後來在溝通"},{"start":6913.046,"end":6939.66,"text":"在運動部在過去體育署的協助之下通常雙方都可以釐清他們的一些疑問但是在整個的經費使用上面我這邊是有跟經濟師這邊建議說我們是不是除了補助之外我們賦予他任務監管的部分當然會計是一定是要做但是我自己個人認為電子金流或許也是一個很好的工具讓協會知道它的金流必須要透明"},{"start":6940.12,"end":6967.614,"text":"他能看到他给选手的钱就是给选手他不是拿去做他的办活动或办比赛等等类似这样的大方向那我们给协会的补助不是全额当然通常只有一半左右其实协会还要负担很大比例的一个支酬款那我们给选手的钱除非他是亚赔队或奥赔队不然如果其他的所谓的号称国家队这些协会他们自己派去国外参加锦标赛其实他们的出国经费有一半"},{"start":6968.314,"end":6996.588,"text":"幾乎都是協會必須要自籌但是另外一半也就是我們講的我們賦予你任務我們當然有高度監管的責任我們的責任具體的我剛剛講第一個是我們會計師的查核部分我們會每兩年一次高度兩年一次再來是兩年一次夠嗎其實已經頻率已經很高了當然兩年一次不是只有那一年是兩年都要只是兩年一次當然電子金流我覺得是一個可以使用的工具是"},{"start":6997.268,"end":7025.108,"text":"好 那我想這個現行的制度其實在之前我們知道10月應該是10月17號其實我們已經有韓文運動部已經有韓文這個台灣整個所有的44個相關的這個協會那就是在針對所謂的運動委員會的委員要採取這個選舉的方式來實施的一個計畫那甚至也說我們即將要修改的包含就是兩個包含這個組織的這個檢責的範本"},{"start":7027.009,"end":7055.974,"text":"那另外一個是我們的選舉實施的一個範本但是現在出現的一個問題我請教一下這個次長如果說這個協會當中他的運動員的選手的一個比例他是比較偏小型偏少的我以桌協為例如果說他因為他今年的整個所有的章程當中他說他要選出運動員的符合資格的運動員要有委員會的委員要有7人"},{"start":7057.054,"end":7082.213,"text":"但是如果比方說加上莊之淵他是一線的這樣子的一個教練有運動員的資格還有他的旗下的一些運動員的資格他全部加起來可能沒有過半我不知道是只有桌協還有其他的協會如果說他的運動員的比例他是沒有辦法過半的話那會不會影響到他們自己的一個權益我們要怎麼樣來捍衛這個權益"},{"start":7084.13,"end":7096.734,"text":"包括委員 我想您上面這個應該是可能是世界桌鞋的對 給過委員國的一些但我想這個是比堅實的部分這個是一定的比例不是看這張圖我剛剛問的是我們台灣目前運動的運動員委員會整個委員會都是現役選手的比例百分之百"},{"start":7103.576,"end":7130.975,"text":"除非他今年退役但我的意思是說要達到比方說像剛剛我講的就是桌協他們的一個選舉的一個辦法他是要選出運動員委員會的委員有7人但是他如果全部加進去他其實也沒有辦法過半這個會不會影響到他們自己本身的一個權益包委員我抱歉我沒有聽懂您的意思因為您在講的是理事還是運動員委員會"},{"start":7132.253,"end":7149.215,"text":"委員會裡頭 運動員委員會裡頭他裡頭全部都是選手啊全部是是是 那選出這個7人其實我們剛剛有講喔因為他也有可能是少數那我剛剛其實有聽到就是我助理的這個資料他也講到說他的"},{"start":7150.797,"end":7177.537,"text":"運動員的成員是在整個所謂的委員會當中他是少數全部加起來也達不到所謂的比方說像卓賢他講的7人那這個會不會影響到他們的權益我的問題是這個我想您剛剛提的應該是理事成員沒有達到1%以上會不會影響那我們這邊提的是運動員委員會底下是所有都是成員都是在最近一屆的現役運動員"},{"start":7178.658,"end":7196.226,"text":"那在整個的但是他們有人數的限制我的意思是說他有人數的限制然後在他的章程上面他是不是有寫說我可能這個要7人要7到11人但是所有的運動員加進來那個是理事我們現在講的是運動員委員會那是兩件不同的事情不同的單位"},{"start":7197.686,"end":7206.537,"text":"那運動員委員會它為什麼重要為什麼要採取整個選舉的制度原因就是因為我們希望未來的選訓 領選辦法在送進選訓委員會之前先能夠讓運動員委員會這些現役的選手先幫忙看過"},{"start":7214.767,"end":7231.238,"text":"在整個辦法上面有沒有哪些的漏洞那這是他們選手最在乎的一件事情那這些OK的在送進選訓委員會比較不會出現過去在選拔方面出現不公的情況那理事會坦白講他們屬於監督的責任但是他們實際上沒有實權"},{"start":7233.656,"end":7249.811,"text":"沒有實權理事只有針對秘書處幹事部的作為有一些監督他們可以提出一些想法糾正但是真正的實權其實在委員會底下他們去來產生他們這些辦法的這個產生草案然後通過讓幹事部去執行"},{"start":7250.011,"end":7265.87,"text":"所以他們是屬於監理制度對理事會是屬於監理制度他只是監理但是真正的決策其實是在幹事部以及委員會那現在問題來了這個監理制度如果他缺乏所謂的統一的要求他是不是有權限可以要求協會要來做改進我的意思是當然"},{"start":7266.571,"end":7283.302,"text":"當然但是包委員說實在我們當然不太可能要求整個理事有絕大一部分全部都是運動員現役選手但是但是也要有一定的比例我的問題是對 我們現在有運動員委員運動員理事是有的那我記得好像是"},{"start":7285.39,"end":7302.13,"text":"五分之一目前我們的國內規定是至少五分之一至少是五分之一那每一個都有要求到五分之一這是強制要求這是我們要的國際法規定的好那我剛剛有提到其實光是協會的一些問題比方說選手如果"},{"start":7302.751,"end":7320.484,"text":"不聽話 我的意思是如果不聽話 如果他可能會影響他出賽或者是補助的一個資格像這樣子的一個文化我們有沒有什麼樣的一個可以監督的手段來改變這樣子的一個文化這個就是回到源頭我們為什麼要運動員委員會要現役選手進來然後來協助選訓委員會他的領選辦法就是這個原因"},{"start":7326.788,"end":7352.06,"text":"什麼時候會開始我們應該是從他們3月陸陸續續因為我知道4月23號李楊部長已經有對外有公告因為明年3月所有的協會陸陸續續改選所以我們就是那個時間點的時候前後我們會讓他的運動委員會去做選舉好那有沒有一些比較明確的一個規範去限制所謂的這個協會的禮監事的任期或者是我們有沒有定期的去清查整個所有的會員的名冊"},{"start":7353.462,"end":7368.962,"text":"包委員這在人民團體法似乎沒有要求說不能夠連選連任最多兩任對不起理事是最多兩任那怎麼樣來避免所謂的這個利益迴避的問題有沒有建立這樣子的一個制度"},{"start":7370.376,"end":7393.473,"text":"有沒有建立這樣的一個制度因為我們知道有很多的協會長期是特定人士在我們不要講把持啦是特定人士長期在掌握包委我們現在已經開放給全民都可以加入都可以當會員了所以這部分當然還是基於人民團體法還是他們自己要自願要加入然後才能夠參與嘛"},{"start":7394.687,"end":7420.86,"text":"好那最後一點點時間讓我提一下就是身障運動的一個發展的一個困境那我們提出來做一些參考然後之後看就是運動部這邊有沒有什麼樣的一些更新的一個回應再回應給我我想要提到這個身心障礙者的一個運動其實許多的縣市他們運動發展身心的一個發展中心其實會發現這些所謂的身障的運動常常被邊緣化包含硬體設施的一個不足"},{"start":7421.72,"end":7434.811,"text":"經費分配相當有限人力的專業支持度也不夠穩定所以現在我想要請教的就是目前我們的身上運動發展中心在經費上或在研究的量能上足不足夠"},{"start":7436.226,"end":7453.603,"text":"我們在過去適應體育的基礎之下校園內的基礎之下我們現在在適應運動我們希望能夠結合全民運動以及我們的那個各個單項協會的賽事以及全民的這些聯賽我們一起打造校園外的"},{"start":7454.244,"end":7483.264,"text":"运动平权 试运动这件事情所以这个整个是一个跨师署的合作那这边的经费我们是有编的应该是足够的但是校园内的适应体育它还是属于教育的一环它还是教育部的责任但是我们会跟教育部做一个很好的一个跨部会的合作所以这个地方有没有会结合所谓的地方政府或社福单位或者是一些学界的一些列量式对不对一定要那如果有一些比较进程的一些进程的规划或者是计划再提供文字给我们好不好谢谢委员好 谢谢"},{"start":7484.065,"end":7507.54,"text":"好 謝謝郭玉琴委員 那次長官員請回座我們現在請林一綺委員質詢待林一綺委員質詢之後休息5分鐘謝主席 也有請鄭次長次長請"},{"start":7515.009,"end":7538.424,"text":"如果要讓運動進入人民的日常那我們就要先認識什麼是台灣人的日常那台灣人的日常我想就是日常性的加班過勞根據勞動部最新的國際勞動統計2024年台灣的平均年工時高達2030個小時位居世界第五高"},{"start":7539.244,"end":7561.46,"text":"那在亞洲是僅次於新加坡排名第二那如果我們跟同年工時最低的德國來相比是差了736個小時以一天工作工時正常8個小時那一個禮拜五天來計算我們台灣比起德國人我們多少人四個半位以上啊"},{"start":7563.601,"end":7591.38,"text":"那市長我想全民運動的觀念是要深植人心那不是喊喊口號宣傳就可以啦那所以我們要創造這個環境那我想人我們往往是外在物質條件來決定一些東西所以好數據已經顯示這個全民日常就是高工時那勞動了一整天不是倒頭就睡就是躺在沙發上追劇我看這樣就差不多了"},{"start":7592.18,"end":7618.433,"text":"所以怎麼樣才能來鼓勵全民運動那我覺得要創造這個所謂的友善條件那不曉得首先要問次長那你可不可以跟勞動部來跨部會合作怎麼樣友善運動條件這一塊就是要讓這個我們台灣人的日常不是只綁在工作而已"},{"start":7619.213,"end":7637.839,"text":"鲍委员我想过去我们的观念就是浙江天高百姓都在运动但是现在我们就是因为这样子的一个文化我们缺乏全民运动的文化我们才要成立全民运动署那我们在从当然基于我们在从体育署时代开始推动运动企业认证目前已经有认证987家的企业"},{"start":7638.399,"end":7658.347,"text":"那職工一百二十二萬人的一個參與也聘用了七百二十六個運動指導員我們想在接下來全民眾署的經費更充裕的情況之下就是要大力推動全民眾這件事情讓我們國人規律運動這件事情變成我們的文化那這部分我們當然會跟勞動部的黃組長這邊來做一個參與希望鼓勵企業 獎勵企業讓企業去鼓勵他的員工投入運動"},{"start":7663.089,"end":7677.714,"text":"沒錯 包委員其實我們大家過去像包括我本身以前當然署長覺得他每天累得要死回去想睡覺最近我也呼籲里昂部長就經常的規律運動所以我最近也瘦下來精神也比較好所以這部分就是我們的文化真的需要去做改善"},{"start":7678.254,"end":7697.005,"text":"好 那創造友善運動環境我們看到我們體育署有做一個報告就是說我們目前民眾常運動的場地看起來就是學校的運動場地公園還有人行道而比例相對高"},{"start":7697.845,"end":7723.015,"text":"那這些場所當然對台灣人也是最貼近日常的那以公園為例我們近來也發現公園中有多了一些簡單的運動設施像中校新生站旁邊的中校公園就簡單的這個什麼胸推裝置那永和的人愛公園就有可以讓民眾練伏力挺身 兩臥起坐還有固定式的壺鈴 滑步機可以練肌力跟肌耐力"},{"start":7724.799,"end":7726.063,"text":"等等 好 那我想要請問次長說那針對公園 這個運動"},{"start":7731.304,"end":7754.656,"text":"裝置的這個推廣或設置還有民眾安全使用的教育那你會來怎麼樣跟縣市政府來合作因為公園的設置是縣市政府的職權是 報告委員我想這部分讓我們用政策來引導我們其實有編一些經費接下來明年能夠跟縣市政府希望他能夠提出一些他們的現有的既有的場館給全民使用的場館能夠做一些修繕"},{"start":7755.957,"end":7771.954,"text":"開放讓我們的運動事業或是一些教練們來承租場地來推動全民動這件事情這部分讓我們先把它規劃好我們來跟地方政府好好的合作那再來本席跟你談談棒球喔最近傳"},{"start":7773.035,"end":7787.381,"text":"有企業到中國要投資棒球聯盟那所謂的這個中國棒球城市聯賽那當然有傳出要使用台灣歷史這個將近40年的這個球隊精神象徵的這個隊徽那這部分這個亞洲國那個棒種"},{"start":7792.203,"end":7810.062,"text":"昨天澄清說沒有啦那當然也有流傳說這個聯賽有把台灣的101的這個放在這個宣傳圖中就像這個圖一樣那甚至前天有公布什麼旺旺黑皮隊那球隊有介紹還特別強調棒球是回家的運動"},{"start":7811.323,"end":7826.924,"text":"我想這個事情引發台灣球迷很多的憤怒跟擔心我們最值得要注意的是說這個聯賽還有規定三分之一的台港澳球員而且目標是要用三年時間推動中國棒球的職業化"},{"start":7828.927,"end":7847.103,"text":"我想其他的運動賽事也有很多台灣球隊到中國發展台灣球員到中國發展可是棒球的特殊性在於我們的棒球歷史很悠久而且我們三級棒球根基也扎實我們的男子棒球的全世界排名也都名列前茅"},{"start":7848.976,"end":7865.589,"text":"特別是十二強啦團結了台灣人的心所以我們在擔心說這麼讓台灣人引以為傲的棒球那又將國軍我捧了所以我們也在擔心說像職棒聯盟的人才啊我們防護員啊我們的基層教練啊都被挖走"},{"start":7866.269,"end":7880.513,"text":"那所以當然啦我認為啦這個短期內中國要這樣有強勢的變化可能也困難可是難保10年20年後這個中國會搶走台灣在世界棒種的話語權所以"},{"start":7882.714,"end":7911.013,"text":"政治長跟蔡昌會長你們都說得很好說壯大自己我們就不會擔心對岸跟這個全世界其他的職業棒球的競爭可是我想請教是說除了強化運動員或教練這種人才的國族認同跟政治風險的辨識跟法治教育以外你還可以有什麼太多的實際的作為來防範這個台灣的高端的運動產業人才被中國挖走"},{"start":7912.017,"end":7926.746,"text":"我想我們這段時間會持續跟陸委會以及中華職棒的蔡委長保持聯繫當然我會提出說我們先把自己壯大原因就是因為就跟美國大聯盟一樣他不怕他的球員跑來台灣"},{"start":7927.506,"end":7953.606,"text":"他會希望你台灣的球員跑去大聯盟所以我們在這整個的支持方面從過去的體育會體育署到運動部不只是人才來培育三級的培訓之外我們對中職不管他的硬體他的賽事的國家隊的一個支持還有甚至我們現在也希望他在整個東亞區域或是亞洲的區域他能夠扮演一個比較舉足村眾的一個地位希望"},{"start":7954.386,"end":7971.79,"text":"未來我們台灣是比日本職棒還韓國職棒還要更好的一個發展如果這樣才有可能把高端人才留住所以這部分我們持續會跟陸委會還有中華職棒這邊來保持聯繫我想蔡會長也蠻多的想法"},{"start":7972.29,"end":7987.809,"text":"就要满足一切壮大自己的条件没有错好那接下来就是棒球它虽然是我们台湾的口中的这个国球可是我们很清楚知道实际参与棒球的人口可能还有成长的空间"},{"start":7988.53,"end":8004.794,"text":"那要提升棒球的運動人口我想至少要讓民眾可以有練習傳接球啦簡單揮棒的這個場地那在台灣學校裡面它基於那個安全的考量其實運動場學校是不能讓人家玩球的"},{"start":8005.234,"end":8025.142,"text":"甚至你在公園要玩球好像也會被驅趕可是我們去日本旅遊我們看到日本其實我們看小朋友都是在空地學校在玩棒球所以我覺得增加練習棒球的空間就變得非常重要我們就或許不用到專業的場地可是"},{"start":8026.522,"end":8050.913,"text":"可能可以在學校啊或者是公園的空地架設所謂的高架護網那規定使用軟式棒球來練習那就可以減低這個安全的疑慮那我想請教次長說怎麼樣增加民眾去安全打棒球的場地那不曉得我這樣的說法您認同嗎或者您要其他什麼看法怎麼樣實際作為來幫忙營造這個好的運動棒球環境"},{"start":8055.635,"end":8070.368,"text":"包委員其實您講得我非常的認同不只是棒球連足球也是遇到一樣的狀況所以我想不管是互網還是微網這些部分我們再跟國教署這邊來研議看看是不是可以提供給學校更多的選擇我想這是校園裡面的一個文化"},{"start":8071.688,"end":8096.6,"text":"很多的校長他會擔心因為你今天受傷了那基於公共保險他還要跑來找學校說你要幫我理賠很多的一個行政上的一個他們覺得比較麻煩的之處那這也是全民動物署現在必須要跟國家保守去談整個合作的機制校園開放才能讓這個文化去做翻轉才能讓我們的學校能夠放心的把場地開放出來好 這部分料真的要好好研議一下好不好"},{"start":8098.121,"end":8121.137,"text":"最後要跟你請教一個資格上的問題就今年在高雄有舉辦全國原住民族運動會那下一屆是後年在台中舉辦那今年有通過評普原住民族身份法那未來就會有評普原住民的身份的人來進行法律身份的這個正式登記不過我們依照我們這個全國原住民族運動會"},{"start":8122.538,"end":8151.69,"text":"舉辦準則第11條參加原民運的選手其原住民族的身份依原住民身份法規定認定之那可是秉持的大法官所述平埔原住民就是原住民的精神所以我想這個身份的認定可能要建議這個第一個就是說平埔原住民的個人取得原住民身份他經過這個民族別的核定才可以去做身份登記那現在原民會正在處理這件事情"},{"start":8152.33,"end":8175.431,"text":"所以現在後年的今年來不及了那後年的原民運喔在事前的參賽資格認定上第一個我覺得應該是要修法就修改這個準則啦來讓平衡原住民族也可以參加就是說你依原住民身份法你可能要再多加依照還在另一還要再多依一個平衡原住民族身份法那另外就是說"},{"start":8176.212,"end":8201.144,"text":"如果民主別還有在審議的時候因為他這個民主別沒有審議成功無人就沒有辦法去登記所以如果是這樣的話在這個就是你參賽前他可能資格沒辦法做確認的時候這個時候是不是要跟園民會去研議一下怎麼樣在過渡期間去確認這些人的報名資格市長"},{"start":8202.146,"end":8225.501,"text":"謝謝委員提醒這的確知識體大就讓我們全民動作署來跟園民會這邊來做一個討論好那是不是給本席一個你們研議後的報告書面報告三個月可以嗎OK好沒有問題謝謝委員好謝謝謝謝主席好謝謝林益錦委員次長請回座我們現在就休息五分鐘之後再請葉元之委員進行質詢"},{"start":8231.259,"end":8233.464,"text":"應該就到11點了 11點前大家回座"},{"start":8580.886,"end":8602.226,"text":"我們會議繼續 那現在請葉元之委員進行質詢主委好 麻煩請次長好 有請鄭次長委員長"},{"start":8607.487,"end":8633.341,"text":"這樣 早先問一下就是棒球迷比較滿關心的一個問題就是那個中國大陸那邊有一個臉書中國棒球城市聯賽臉書貼出來很多人發現說有一個上海中信隊然後就擔心說這跟上海中信跟台灣的中信兄弟有沒有關係嘛 對吧不是上海中信對不起我講錯上海兄弟隊那這個狀況你了解是怎樣"},{"start":8636.724,"end":8653.695,"text":"鮑委員中國信託還有中國中信娛樂公司已經發表聲明他們對這件事情沒有相關那如果說對岸持續抄襲他如果覺得商標有受到侵權他們會提出法律的行動這是他們的聲明"},{"start":8654.935,"end":8668.762,"text":"因為我從這個事情我發現一個很奇怪的事情就是當時那個中華職棒會長蔡其昌發臉書他說這個事情發生的時候他要轉達中信請他們向外說明感覺好像這都是"},{"start":8669.682,"end":8686.952,"text":"民間的事因為太極張是他雖然是立委但是他是用那個中華職棒應該是用會長的身分發這個文是如果是職棒會長他就是民間嘛是那運動部在這個中間都沒有角色大家都不會想到說這個事情來請運動部來求證一下或什麼的"},{"start":8687.512,"end":8702.543,"text":"報委員在一開始對岸有這樣子的一個網路上的訊息出現的時候我就跟蔡其昌會長也有做討論也有問過中信的集團娛樂公司其實我們都在掌握之中不過對岸要發展"},{"start":8703.743,"end":8727.6,"text":"棒球聯賽這件事情當然我們管不到對岸但是我們擔心的是我們的高端人才會不會因此而有事你有跟那個中信有連溝通有溝通他們是說他們這部分他們不參與他們也沒有參與所以發了聲明只是對啊那蔡奇營這樣發文我感覺好像我們台灣沒有運動部一樣但是你講的訊息跟後面有一些新聞發展有點矛盾我們來看一下你看"},{"start":8728.661,"end":8756.408,"text":"本來確實如你所說啦就是中信娛樂公司說他們不知情而且如果侵權會採取必要措施那是11月5號是但11月6號的時候啊你看新聞報導陸委會了解啊背後運籌帷幄的是一家經常和台灣職棒聯盟和棒協合作的一家運動行銷公司那陸委會又有這樣的消息包委員那是我們提供給陸委會的你們提供給陸委會是所以是這一個運動行銷公司的角色是什麼"},{"start":8757.934,"end":8777.496,"text":"他跟中信的關係是什麼我們沒有任何證據顯示他跟中信有關係但是他就像台商的模式他們到中國大陸要去發展尋求商業的商機這部分我們沒有辦法去阻擋他但是他如果有一些違反兩岸人民關係條例的惡意挖角當然陸委會就會介入"},{"start":8778.058,"end":8791.635,"text":"所以這看起來是這家運動行銷公司他想要去發展所以他可能一個提案是不是就把台灣的一些職棒的商標或什麼提供給對岸對岸那在還沒有確定情況之下為什麼會PO出來"},{"start":8792.338,"end":8813.916,"text":"報告委員我在行政院記者會議的時候提到他整個過程非常的粗糙都在放風聲的感覺到現在其實網路上也看到網友有實際上去那家公司的地址去看結果也沒有那家公司的存在也沒有上海兄弟的公司的存在就像空殼子未來會怎麼樣的他們怎麼樣的籌備我們都還在觀察當中接下來問一下足球的問題"},{"start":8819.921,"end":8846.67,"text":"那這是10月15號台灣因為去參加2027年亞洲盃的會內賽結果就輸了嘛就沒有資格參加亞洲盃但是這過程當中中華足協就被爆很多項疏失所以隊長也批評說這叫台灣人欺負台灣人他台灣人的意思應該是指足協吧是不是足協欺負台灣人然後很扯的是你可以看到右邊那個照片"},{"start":8848.863,"end":8876.655,"text":"觀眾球迷在看比賽的時候居然跳出這個89比10這樣一個畫面很多人都以為說居然輸這麼多居然輸到89分後來原來是烏龍一場原來是那個足協他在比賽過程當中操作PPT然後還把他投影在畫面上面虛驚一場這個真的非常扯好 這是第一件很誇張的事情等一下我們再一起來講第二個是"},{"start":8877.813,"end":8906.068,"text":"另外我們的五人制這個是十一人制的球隊然後我們五人制足球也發生一件也是蠻扯的事情10月16號新聞他們要去沙烏地阿拉伯參加亞洲盃的資格賽結果遇到簽證延誤結果折騰了半天然後才上飛機這簡直不可思議運動部又再要求足協交檢討報告然後我們接下來看"},{"start":8907.108,"end":8920.546,"text":"那他的檢討報告後來租協交出來了是什麼時候交出來的呢是10月17號就交出來了我們這個看下一頁看下一頁10月17號下一頁"},{"start":8925.215,"end":8950.747,"text":"這是10月17號中華民國足球協會的檢討報告有檢討兩件事情第一個就是我剛剛講的亞洲盃的資格問題另外一個是無人制去沙烏地阿拉伯的簽證問題結果這個足協報告次長想必一定看過報告沒有因為不是我督導的所以你沒有看過對那是誰督導洪志昌常務次長所以你對於這個事情是完全不了解"},{"start":8951.558,"end":8963.949,"text":"我略知一二請委員可以提問我來我試試看我經濟師長也在這邊好那我們來看其實從檢討報告裡面我覺得有幾件事情蠻奇怪的第一個"},{"start":8965.79,"end":8987.187,"text":"簽證有那麼趕嗎其實實際上沙烏利阿拉伯的足協在9月9號的晚上就已經提供簽證辦理的表格了所以這個表格拿到之後就可以立刻辦理當然中間需要時間但是其實時間應該是蠻充裕的然後結果我們看到大概什麼時候我們的足協才寄出所有的簽證資訊呢是在10月2號"},{"start":8988.348,"end":9013.902,"text":"10月2號才寄出去中間大概隔了三個多禮拜才寄出去那你10月2號寄出去中間又說什麼對方不回啊如何如何如何搞到15號來不及實際上我是不知道為什麼收集這個簽證要這麼久市長你以前戴過竹鞋嗎包委員我戴過竹鞋但是我當時因為任期太短沒有處理這些簽證的事情那請問一下他這樣子合理嗎"},{"start":9014.588,"end":9040.998,"text":"看起來有兩個問題一個是可能教練團在提供給沙烏地阿拉伯這邊的團員選手的名冊太晚繳交第二個可能是沙烏地阿拉伯當地他們的足協在處理這個簽證的部分可能也有拖延我先不管沙烏地阿拉伯我現在就講我們寄出去的時間需要拖這麼久嗎當然你會預設沙烏地阿拉伯可能會拖那我們這邊動作就要快一點怎麼會"},{"start":9041.818,"end":9068.187,"text":"拖到上不了飛機差點上不了飛機這很離譜啦是然後再來我們再來看有關於剛剛講的那個十一人制的亞洲杯的會內賽我們的球員你看我們球員接不到場地我們球員接不到場地沒有辦法練習原因是什麼原因是因為泰國隊在本次賽事開始前三個月已經把場地租走了"},{"start":9069.619,"end":9098.704,"text":"然後所以我們借不到我們自己的球員借不到本國的場地被外國人借走因為人家三個月前就借了然後我們這個十月中的比賽呢足協是八月才通過由黃澤民擔任總教練那拚總教練的時間也很慢那你說那總教練比較晚產生那我們借場地總是可以早點借吧也沒有那這個部分這個市長你覺得呢"},{"start":9100.595,"end":9122.094,"text":"包委員這部分我想就是反映出足協內部的行政他的能力不足所以他總辭了我足協是剛成立是不是也不是那個次長你以前是體育署的署長體育署的署長居然可以讓足協說能力不足然後發生這麼多奇怪的事情"},{"start":9123.089,"end":9138.962,"text":"然後現在你當市長之後你說那不是我督導的所以我就沒辦法很具體回答那足協以前都歸你管在運動部升格之前所以我們的公家機關不管是體育署或運動部都是任由單項協會隨便弄"},{"start":9141.207,"end":9156.978,"text":"然後發生問題之後再說那是他的問題那你們的督導跟監督責任在哪裡我們也不可能派一個人直接進駐租協嘛不是啦 那你自己去想辦法嘛你自己想辦法嘛因為單項協會為什麼會成立單項協會是台灣有特殊性嘛是"},{"start":9157.598,"end":9178.695,"text":"但重點誰掌握資源運動部啊誰有權利運動部啊國人會希望誰把運動賽事搞好運動部啊結果你們說那都足協的事跟我都沒有關係我覺得你這樣子回答國人無法接受國人無法接受這樣的態度啦足協只要發生任何問題都是運動部的事啊你不能講說他就很爛啊"},{"start":9179.938,"end":9201.539,"text":"你好像路人甲一樣我們在國際賽事有墊檢核表但這部分的確是我們在檢核表上面不夠細緻這部分我們有在改善然後再來還有一個這個也是有人經費的問題說國家的足球代表隊第一個他有什麼確實疏漏一名球員的註冊居然還有疏漏球員的註冊"},{"start":9203.311,"end":9226.885,"text":"這就是太低級錯誤了吧然後第二個球員有提及零用金一天只有1000塊所以我們的國家代表隊球員他零用金一天是1000塊包委員這個標準是怎麼定的如果他本身零有外面的球隊的薪水那臨時的集訓每日的零用金是400元那600元是足球協會自籌所以就是1000嘛 沒錯嘛那膳食費又是另外的所以這個是零用金1000嘛"},{"start":9228.165,"end":9237.97,"text":"我們國家提供400 600是足球協會提供但是有另外一個無人製的無人製的他講說他只有拿到400塊就是我們國家給的 足協沒給他足協沒給他 那足協應該要給嗎"},{"start":9242.84,"end":9272.115,"text":"這個是看協會看協會那你覺得足協應該要給嗎國家國家給我覺得應該要一致足協應該不是盈利事業應該要一致啦足協應該是政府補助給他的預算吧是那他當然有自籌款他很大比例是自籌款但是他應該要一致好啦我覺得我覺得次長其實之前你在當署長的時候你也有來這邊詢問過啦常常問到足協問題或體育的問題你常常都會一副事不關己的樣子啦那現在運動部升格代表國人對運動部的期待比較高啦否則不用升格了"},{"start":9272.555,"end":9301.875,"text":"那如果官員還是用這種態度就是那協會發生事情他不對把它換掉或我覺得大家沒辦法接受新的部新的氣象大家會希望說運動部做好督導的責任那未來所有的協會發生的問題當然都是運動部的責任沒有辦法切割啦希望次長可以拿出肩膀出來好嗎好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝葉委員 石委員那次長官員請回座"},{"start":9303.394,"end":9332.483,"text":"現在請謝龍介委員進行質詢主席我請他出座請署長請次長委員長 老大出座我請教你"},{"start":9335.185,"end":9345.208,"text":"內處在這個單行選拔選手跟協會中間發生這個問題是制度的問題是選拔制度的問題這才是協會臨時背棄的問題你參與這10年來體育界這問題你怎麼看"},{"start":9363.444,"end":9378.777,"text":"報告委員 我覺得這部分主要是學會臨時的憑證的問題憑證人認律不夠歡迎出他的姓氏不夠高請到比較好的憑證人認完所以這部分問題是可以因為憑證的問題造成我們對國家選手的選拔"},{"start":9387.093,"end":9398.061,"text":"阿依照大方嗎?所以報委員不可以所以我們現在要在運動員委員會來處理選舉的問題現任的選手來做委員的目的就是這個原因現任的選手來做委員為什麼結局很困難啊好?協會你剛才說的他要再主張經費"},{"start":9414.862,"end":9427.076,"text":"一年要穿三、四千萬、兩、三千萬不定你叫這些選秀出身的,大家我就去種植,我就去運動當然,可以整合為一,這是政府的風雲但是社會內心的人,要來參與"},{"start":9436.909,"end":9456.677,"text":"他如果有健康的心態又再合夥我願意出錢出力推展彈簧運動但我並沒有想要去改變這個運動的規則因為這是影響選手選中譬如說 只要說這個愛孩子比賽拿勝責不太好這差不多是國彈簧你認為這是不是一個問題這我不知道要怎麼回答不用 你坦白說"},{"start":9466.803,"end":9475.09,"text":"沒有對錯啦,就是說有改善的空間嗎?當然,我們可以進一步,因為我們現在山區可以運動,可以去靠更好的河中,更好的大河,這件事情我覺得是很正面的是啊,但是變成淪為淪為的操作"},{"start":9489.564,"end":9501.194,"text":"鼠心鼠勇 那就失去我們國家提供這個資源跟機會 要給這些辛苦訓練的孩子嘛這我本身是經歷過的 我應該有講過給你聽吧我們不用點名 就是說在這個制度裡面有很多沒有的所以你現在要運動完 去領導協會 你會有很多的阻力"},{"start":9517.076,"end":9531.983,"text":"因為市場有市場的技術運動有運動的規則尤其體育界先敗後敗之間坦白說很難打破你如果要奪獎當然本身是可以支持你譬如說現在奧林匹克委員會請人有幾個是參加過奧林匹克的沒多少沒多少有幾個嘛"},{"start":9546.72,"end":9566.764,"text":"柏惟文,那四個字我不知道我看一個就沒有了有啦,像朱牧炎就是...當時你要做委員的,委員的來,整個像朱牧炎就是啊,郭先生也是啊,鄭天成也是啊,他們都是委員他們可以影響整個奧林匹克委員會,我們的體育的造型為什麼?現在,我想你應該聽過"},{"start":9576.354,"end":9592.41,"text":"參加過奧林匹克這裡的選手,他們準備要另外組織一個奧林匹克人的委員會感受嗎?已經成立了成立了?一定成立了他的目的要怎麼樣?當然希望可以"},{"start":9593.902,"end":9604.307,"text":"主要言語以外啦 都是算好友嘛但是最重要是要改善改善民眾玩樂的環境那麼對我們國家體育政策和對外代表基本上應該是沒辦法去撼動啦他們有想要想要多多參與你認為這是正面 有正面嗎正好 正好嘛最好可以做出電腦改變"},{"start":9624.534,"end":9641.044,"text":"我這邊 我回家我來找奧運人學會的理事長 理事長來談一下沒有啦 你找人談要做什麼啦我是說 最後我們國的奧林匹克委員會對我的興奮地位 我想是真的很要撼動啦你現在是要推動 改變 提供嗎有這個想法嗎 政府有這個想法加入嗎沒有 我是想當"},{"start":9652.372,"end":9666.876,"text":"中華奧會讓他們自己處理讓他們自己處理他們的處理方向是要怎樣他們的內部有算計啊兩個單位沒工啊我們沒有去主導啦沒有啦我們現在就是尊重他們內部的體育是一個很龐大的三頁啦可以三頁的話其實政府就可以"},{"start":9681.272,"end":9710.032,"text":"事本公佈 若沒有獨三合法 政府拖著走 你們就很慘了選手也很慘了 合法也很慘了所以針對這個合法的健康當然有接受合法來的接受人 曾經有個人偏差的行為 那我們都理解但是選法的制度和辦法在這個制定裡面 你們的概念就是說"},{"start":9711.505,"end":9730.938,"text":"自由 公平 然後放自主 放改善這樣辦法起來 協會要存取操作的空間 主人就借這樣來 不用三天兩夜 有端無端的出一個協會什麼事情出一個選區更安全 這個去奧運可是這是一個聯盟的運動單項的時候 政府就對手了"},{"start":9739.625,"end":9760.62,"text":"政府的形象就更正常了嘛所以在這裡剛才有人提起到普羅野球中國大陸要發展這個東西我在這裡你的看法不是對的啦但是我現在跟你說因為這是一個世界性尤其台灣人很介意的一種運動這個野球可以說是專門運動甚至合成我們的國球"},{"start":9766.601,"end":9775.811,"text":"那麼台中有龐大的市場,這個市場是讓它進行發展後,這個進行發展後,當然世界,自由的世界,選手是自由流動的。"},{"start":9782.177,"end":9804.026,"text":"頭部的到MLB、台聯盟去,有的到日本去,有的到小聯盟,那麼所有的職業聯盟,最好在台聯盟拍攝以後,拍攝以後,最好還有存在的展用的價值,也能夠到台灣拍攝,還有一次,如果是台聯盟,"},{"start":9808.966,"end":9835.735,"text":"一級的選手就像歐丹尼這種的願意來台灣打在電風的時候來台灣打球那就是我們的三鴨大大的成功了現在不是啊 沒錯他也不欠你錢你也不欠他本地的技術對不對變成大家這樣嘛所以在三鴨球跟加州鴨球裡面這就是你的責任你要怎麼去推動跟三級的鴨球後來大陸這個市場起來是以後"},{"start":9839.196,"end":9865.737,"text":"這會不敢去作動台灣新墳中華民國新墳的野球選手不可以去中國大陸投球不可能所以委員你剛才說的完全正確我們就是要逐一先壯大起來主動化市場主流化的競爭我們的市場 他們的薪水如果一個月欠五萬我們這裡的薪水可以欠十五萬沒有人要去嘛"},{"start":9868.84,"end":9878.558,"text":"他的薪水如果是五萬的人民票,到五萬的美金的時候,我告訴你,我們這裡的大小都要走了。"},{"start":9879.968,"end":9898.912,"text":"這是一個市場自由化來的 競爭來的本身希望說 最好不用政敵的手段來介入不管中央也好 全世界也好 聯合一個單行的運動政敵千千萬萬 不能介入體育或者這個體育真的有可能到最後就糟蹋了"},{"start":9901.854,"end":9911.567,"text":"如果要用經濟蓋在體育最好,我們在世界所有的比賽,我們的首項重點,坦白說,經濟局勢對我們不利,那麼在這樣的情況下,我們就要朝向健康正面的"},{"start":9919.015,"end":9934.158,"text":"發電來看待這個運動你覺得怎麼樣所以我完全贊成我們現在就是要幫忙綜合之棒大家參加 三頁要怎麼提升起來 提升起來要怎麼壯大我們為進展不管是培訓的進行費還是說他們的賽場加一個場館整修這都我們出錢的我們怎麼出啊接下來他們現在不管是高速攝影機或他們關賽"},{"start":9947.2,"end":9964.766,"text":"他們這裡...我們現在是要讓球迷,他們在觀賽感受...三級的野球平安啊,不就沒辦法完完,不斷選手,不斷播放出來,沒好的選手,沒精采的比賽,我告訴你,你再把他氣壞一下...不,議員,那部門本來我們在你做啊,那部門很重要,一定會做。你們會做嗎?一定,本來就要做啊,現在也在做。"},{"start":9970.007,"end":9995.073,"text":"過去是完全不足 我跟你說 我很關心野球 我一路就對了第三次野球局是我推薦的 我也熱情替總統所以很清楚 我不是跟你說這樣就不行了加把勁 落實三級野球 既然野球有搞定過去不要讓孩子打球 要踏車就是說打球不出團啦"},{"start":9996.189,"end":10007.754,"text":"現在有PRO野球了,變成這是一個三頁,三頁越擴大,變成這個運動單行的一組人,加上了玩意,讓孩子對玩樂的心態開始,到十個,一百的裡面反正站不住一個,五百的裡面站一個選手,我要說不斷不斷這樣,每一年有新的營業出來。"},{"start":10020.06,"end":10033.245,"text":"我們的野球才會不斷健康其他世界的好手他們比較願意來參與這樣這個野球的戰略就會越來越輝煌停頓了謝謝你謝謝委員OK 謝謝謝董介先生好 次長回座了喝口水好 我們現在請羅廷維委員質詢"},{"start":10057.557,"end":10062.238,"text":"好 謝謝趙偉 有請次長好 請鄭次長委員長好 次長好次長 今年這個英雄聯盟世界賽總決賽剛落幕吸引全球673萬人觀看總觀看的時數達到了1.35億的一個小時"},{"start":10080.757,"end":10109.187,"text":"市長你有沒有看比賽報告委員沒有要準備考試囉市長這一次第一名的隊伍是誰報告委員不曉得抱歉韓國T1是T1隊那我們的台灣也有隊伍參加市長知不知道是哪一隊不知道是中信的飛母力CTBCFamily知道大概排名大概多少嗎第二第二"},{"start":10110.66,"end":10136.091,"text":"他們打進八強但是我要跟大家分享這一次台灣中信的飛母力隊打進八強次長他的獎金我就直接講大概30萬美元30萬美元900多萬的台幣這一群孩子我們的年輕人我們所有台灣的年輕人都為他們感到驕傲代表什麼代表我們的孩子有實力"},{"start":10137.409,"end":10155.443,"text":"有潛力只要給他舞台他們就能夠發光發熱我直接不會言的講電競這個選項是台灣孩子最有機會獲得未來奧運金牌的一個項目之一你認為呢"},{"start":10156.738,"end":10181.833,"text":"范委員我同意你的說法但是我要跟次長分享的是我們現在討論到政體就是很諷刺的我們的世界選手在這個國際舞台爭光的同時我們另一頭準備代表台灣出征2026年名古屋亞運電競項目的這些選手卻連能不能開始訓練都還不知道大家一聽"},{"start":10183.445,"end":10209.423,"text":"奇怪了怎麼會這樣子呢根據我手邊的資料國家運動訓練中心114年5月對不起8月11日就已經發出公文當時同意有五個參賽項目第一快打旋風第二絕地重生第三英雄聯盟第四寶可夢大集結第五魔法氣泡"},{"start":10211.429,"end":10236.721,"text":"這個我也希望在座大家一起來關注一下也拜託召委電競是很重要的到了10月初陸續有選手向我陳情表示一直等不到培訓的通知到了了解以後我們才發現其實協會啊早在10月的時候就已經放就已經送出這個相關的培訓計劃希望能夠爭取更多的項目但運動部跟國訓中心就是沒有回覆"},{"start":10237.987,"end":10256.746,"text":"直到10月21號10月21大家待會看一下這個時間表選訓委員才決意通過同意追加三個項目哪三個永劫無間第五人格跑車浪漫旅7相關的一個遊戲競賽"},{"start":10259.908,"end":10268.675,"text":"項目大致底定喔 11月4號國訓中心才召開訓輔小組的會議要求協會提供8個參賽項目選手培訓的實施計畫還有教練選手的領選辦法在另案專案討論這些資料協會早已經備託了餒 次長"},{"start":10283.154,"end":10311.738,"text":"我想請問你不覺得這個行政流程拉得太長了嗎8月到現在11月整整三個月三個月的時間就這樣子流失了我們明年要參加亞運培訓的項目沒有正式核定沒有真的遴選辦法通過協會沒有安排選拔比賽無法啟動訓練到現在11月了無法啟動訓練我們到底要哪一個人當選手都還不知道"},{"start":10312.83,"end":10318.217,"text":"我們要怎麼樣參加明年的奧運亞運市長你知道名古屋亞運計畫是什麼時候要舉辦嗎對不起亞運預計什麼時候舉辦嗎明年九月九月"},{"start":10325.32,"end":10344.106,"text":"時間都在流失所以也就是說距離開幕賽我們相關不到一年我們的選手緊張得要命就只能等公文等補件等審查這樣的行政流程持續的浪費了時間不只是浪費這些選手的青春更是浪費國家栽培選手"},{"start":10345.826,"end":10367.853,"text":"這樣的效率我們能夠反映整個運動部對於我們現在電競的重視嗎更何況國訓中心公文明擺的指出補助款項適用於亞奧運培訓的隊伍尚未產生的正式培訓隊伍故無法先行補助協會辦理公開的選拔培訓的相關賽事費用這樣子不是很矛盾嗎"},{"start":10369.628,"end":10385.727,"text":"所以由于尚未核定整个实际赛事的一个项目协会便无法进行选拔没有选拔就不能够启动后续的培训整个协会战队有心提前训练结果担心最终审核的项目不同"},{"start":10386.88,"end":10403.862,"text":"所以整個就陷入了僵局啊這樣的行政流程我覺得協會不能動選手不能練就算可以練也都心裡會很擔憂只能被迫無限期的等待我了解國訓中心就是審慎"},{"start":10405.529,"end":10422.424,"text":"去做把關但是現在距離亞運只剩不到10個月相較之下韓國日本早就已經啟動了我們還在等什麼人家都已經安排好集訓項目的地點然後還有唯獨我們還在卡在這個訓練的程序當中"},{"start":10426.397,"end":10440.828,"text":"我想請問一下運動部對於電競項目的設定明確審查時間時程有沒有這樣子的一個審查時程去既定送件後幾日一定要完成審核幾日一定要公告有沒有"},{"start":10443.371,"end":10465.547,"text":"剛剛國訓這邊回報給我除了您剛一開始講的三位已經核定後面追加的因為協會的文件一直有問題所以一直被審查完之後被推薦所以你現在是推給協會就對了不是 那我想說我剛跟國訓講我們主動更積極一點去輔導協會協助他們把這個資料準備好我想這樣子會比較正面不然讓協會一直拖在那邊這樣也不行會影響學生的權益這部分我也請國訓中心"},{"start":10466.347,"end":10488.767,"text":"我先請問嘛那你有沒有運動部針對電競項目的明確審查期程他其實一直有在接受審查只要進來就有每個禮拜都會審查送件幾日內要完成審核有沒有規定問題是他就是審查完他就被退回去了沒關係我先問你嘛就是你說他做得不好我們另外再討論你有沒有一個規定期程我收到件多久一定要審查完"},{"start":10490.782,"end":10506.857,"text":"收到就會 訓輔會就會去審查可不可以給我一個固定的既有其成我希望看到你們的行政流程有一次收到件我不管你對或錯 我就馬上審馬上就知道結果嘛你錯我就給你退啊 沒關係他們現在國訓院說"},{"start":10509.079,"end":10538.188,"text":"最長兩週之內一定會送訓輔會議去審查兩週內才送訓輔會議能不能兩週內完成審核應該是他兩週之內就會審查啦但是就是問題現在出現在於國訓的要求協會這邊一直沒有辦法達成那我想就是請市長我現在先不講說你審查一定要達成或是審查一定要通過他就兩個禮拜之內一定會審查完我要求的是行政流程要兩個禮拜內完成審查"},{"start":10538.848,"end":10553.64,"text":"他现在是两个礼拜错就给他退届没关系在补健那你辅导的相关机制你也要产生出来协会有问题你要加紧的去做辅导因为为什么后面衍生的是选手培训的时间加紧而来"},{"start":10554.904,"end":10576.551,"text":"所以我要拜托啊现在目前如果可以就是两周内一定要完成亚运的电竞专案会议来把这个运动竞技师国训中心共同参与拍板定案是协会通过的这个计划是通过还是没通过两个礼拜可以吗我请国训加强的机器来辅导我希望你要承诺啦"},{"start":10577.831,"end":10585.718,"text":"再來現在兩個禮拜內完成八個項目的正式核定與公告公告可以嗎"},{"start":10589.583,"end":10608.409,"text":"我想問題癥結還是在於在協會跟國訓之間的這個我跟你講 你說是協會啦但現在協會沒有說是你啦我不知道啦沒關係 我想說請國訓要現在只有你跟我在做相關的對話嘛但是我要講的是最大的受害者是什麼中華民國"},{"start":10609.861,"end":10631.015,"text":"我們的選手沒有辦法趕快培訓趕快為我們得獎讓我們能夠在國際發光發熱所以整個損失的是我中華民國的驕傲還有這些選手的權益就變成兩個在推來推去最後選手沒辦法好好的做好好的備戰所以我要講的是"},{"start":10632.253,"end":10649.313,"text":"市長 我看你有股難言我看你聽到後面給你打pass你都覺得你說不會過我請他們的支持度要再大一點我覺得這是差在支持度上面還不夠大誰的支持度就是國訓給協會的支持度是國訓的支持度也不夠嗎因為國訓它是基本上原則上委託國訓是協會的去輔導協會國訓是不是協會的"},{"start":10652.617,"end":10667.907,"text":"不是吧不是對啊所以我來說請國訓直接告訴協會該怎麼做我今天在這邊點出這個問題不管是運動部不管是國訓中心不管是李洋部長不管是現在在我面前的政次長"},{"start":10669.506,"end":10697.998,"text":"關心此件案件不要再有類似的這樣狀況發生全力的協助整個計劃通過因為不是為了協會因為是為了我們的選手因為是為了我中華民國在未來漸進史上的驕傲你可以答應我嗎這個我們會好好做兩個禮拜內完成審查加公告好不好可以不能再拖了亞運的時間都訂好他不會等我們啊可以嗎"},{"start":10699.306,"end":10728.305,"text":"執行長答應我執行長可不可以現在的問題就是協會提供的資料沒有完整所以我們在審核上我們還是要一定要你要讓我看到你最大程度的去追啊我們會請委員請那個輔導委員盡速的來協助讓協會建立比較完整的國訓中心做選手最大的靠山運動部做選手最大的靠山不是做協會的我今天不是幫協會講話我今天要看到的是趕快抵定我們的選手"},{"start":10729.165,"end":10748.855,"text":"趕快讓他們趕快訓練 安心備戰拿下亞運的好成績 好不好謝謝好 謝謝委員好 謝謝羅廷瑩委員還針對明年度的亞運比賽要進行的這些項目是電競上面做一下質詢好 那現在請林佩祥委員質詢好 謝謝主席 尤其鄭次長"},{"start":10758.939,"end":10786.595,"text":"好 曾市長請市長早110年度的體育監費高達248億我們基隆我是基隆選出來的區域立委在基隆這個台灣頭我們常年面臨著運動平權的挑戰我們有全台灣最惡劣的運動氣候最沉重的歷史長管折舊"},{"start":10787.515,"end":10814.472,"text":"因此本席就是要在檢驗運動部這248億的預算如何具體落實在我們基隆市民身上要確保運動平權不是一句空話那我第一個想問的就是有關基隆的這個國家羽球館的案子在今年9月26號的時候李洋部長特地來我辦公室跟本席明確表示基隆的國家羽球館計畫沒有喊停"},{"start":10815.493,"end":10824.851,"text":"但是市長基隆市民需要的不是一句沒有喊停的保證我們要的是具體啟動的時程所以請問市長"},{"start":10826.343,"end":10849.801,"text":"国家基隆的国家羽球馆的预算跟时程目前是如何报告委员我们因应运动部的成立所以我们现在正在将各个委员以及地方的县市政府的一些需求我们派我们自己去盘点包括全民运动以及专项的运动馆等等的一些需求我们把它盘点起来会送行政院这边来做审查"},{"start":10850.541,"end":10867.134,"text":"所以目前的進度是我們還沒有送出運動部但是您的基隆高中羽球館的部分我們目前是有先納進來接下來希望能夠一起把它送出去所以科目編號沒有計劃名稱沒有核定預算金額跟整體計劃時程都沒有"},{"start":10870.356,"end":10887.49,"text":"目前還沒有因為我們9月9號才剛成立所以這件事情是才剛開始進行部長為什麼我會把這個案子拿出來講因為這是兩位總統給基隆市民的承諾那我甚至在李洋部長來的時候我甚至跟他半開玩笑的說你拿到第一次奧運冠軍的時候"},{"start":10889.011,"end":10914.683,"text":"蔡英文總統跑來基隆說我們基隆值得一個新的國家級羽球館要把這個運動發揚光大順便也是紀念說我們基隆我們台灣有機會拿到奧運冠軍結果他拿了第二個的時候剛好爛心的總統也跑來說我們這個基隆的國家級羽球館應該要成立可是問題是說只聽樓梯響沒有見到人影那變成是說"},{"start":10916.013,"end":10920.65,"text":"市長你認為說讓兩任總統的承諾就這樣落空是好事嗎"},{"start":10921.431,"end":10946.862,"text":"報告委員這已經拖了至少幾年五年我們在體育署時代的時候去年年底的時候我們其實有送一案那當然有把這裡面納進來可是當時案子當然蠻多的當時的行政院的指示是希望說9月9號運動部成立之後我們重新來盤點然後重新來做一個申請所以這部分報告委員我們目前的確還在盤整當中"},{"start":10947.182,"end":10964.939,"text":"但是并没有把基隆高中的羽球馆就此就删掉了应该因为那时候我跟李洋部长讨论出来不是基隆高中羽球馆而是基隆的国家级羽球馆为什么因为我们也很担心说未来这个羽球馆落成之后应该花了不少的经费但是落成之后变文字馆"},{"start":10965.599,"end":10984.021,"text":"所以说只是拿来当做一个所谓的新少年羽球训练中心其实是不够的就朝向多功能比较好没错朝向多功能比较好甚至说我们要的是一座能够办BWF也就是Badminton World Conference的这个世界的巡回赛的国际国家级场馆国际级场馆"},{"start":10984.421,"end":11000.046,"text":"那同時之間當然使用者付費的前提之下他平日也會讓基隆市民學生上班族甚至北北基的這些學生上班族繼續裡面打球讓運動的全民體育館那所以說部長你現在對場館的規格有任何的計畫嗎目前我們是朝向3億的一個預算來做盤點規劃那是什麼超級500超級750還是更高"},{"start":11014.042,"end":11028.304,"text":"包委我們現在並沒有往這部分目前還沒有針對這個分級的部分目前的確還沒有因為五年了因為基隆市這邊也要提出申請針對這一塊告訴我們他想要什麼樣的規格"},{"start":11029.147,"end":11058.727,"text":"我觉得这个事情基隆市会很积极地去做因为从上一任市长林佑昌到这一任市长谢国良跟我的前任蔡世英委员到现在我想每个人只要是基隆的民意代表都非常关心这个案子所以说甚至这样讲为什么会特地提到说希望大家都可以使用因为我们也考虑到财务的模型那想请问一下我们基隆有另外一个国民运动中心因为OT的厂商经营不善已经累积高达"},{"start":11060.188,"end":11081.363,"text":"設施殘破不堪變成是一個很顯著的失敗的案子那對於這個新的國家與球館那我想請問我們運動部目前將採取哪一種的財務模式是單純的OT還是更具彈性的ROT阿偉這是地方政府的權責不是我補助單位還要幫他想怎麼營運這是他來告訴我他要怎麼營運好"},{"start":11082.984,"end":11111.137,"text":"那我想請 那我剛剛講過場館不是只有基隆的這個國家羽球館好 另外一個就是我們基隆市的市立田徑場那這個田徑場是我們基隆市最大的體育投資那總經費4.6億元中央補助3.2億元即將在明年8月完工啟用那我們身為基隆市民不希望這個自資4.6億中央也付了3.2億的場館變成最後地方的蚊子館那我想請問次長"},{"start":11112.857,"end":11128.431,"text":"運動部作為主要出資者請問有對2027甚至2028將哪些全國性或國際性的田徑賽事或職業運動賽事明確輪辦是這個新的全新的國家認證場地呢有沒有 包委員"},{"start":11130.017,"end":11155.042,"text":"以我的理解如果是基隆田徑厂他今天设完工之后理论上他应该会申请国际的不管是二级或一级的田徑的认证这当然取决于基隆市政府他们选择哪一样如果是二级的话是田徑协会这边可以主办大概认证费用应该也不高但是如果国际一级的话就会相对的比较高一些完全取决于地方政府他选择哪一样"},{"start":11155.842,"end":11170.796,"text":"但是如果是單純辦國內的田徑賽事的話我想二級就足夠了那所以運動部會配合辦理就對了如果基隆市政府申請上來的時候這個部分的確是看基隆市政府他們需不需要朝這個方向"},{"start":11172.635,"end":11186.631,"text":"第三點我想請問就是有關基隆的這個氣候平權跟所謂的海洋戰略這其實跟運動部怎麼看我們基隆有絕對的關係基隆一年將近有200天在下雨那基隆市立田徑場的規劃兩座風雨籃球場屬於付費的場館"},{"start":11190.876,"end":11217.041,"text":"那其實並沒有辦法滿足我們基隆市七個行政區對於社區普及的需求所以我想說本席在這邊要要求運動部在一個月之內針對基隆多雨的特性提出氣候運動平權的專項補助計畫是不是在這邊可以做出承諾呢包委員目前我們的規劃在風雨球場的部分歸地方政府的權責並不是我們在中央的權責又退回來地方政府啦"},{"start":11217.711,"end":11242.259,"text":"報告委員其實這個部分真的就是在採訪法之後我們還是希望地方政府針對他的體育設施還有一定的責任在那我想請問另外一個在海洋運動方面運動部已經指定基隆的海洋大學成為水域運動北部中心北區中心但是根據資料這個北區中心目前的任務僅次於推廣跟整合那運動部沒有並列任何的基礎限設預算"},{"start":11244.52,"end":11269.892,"text":"那等於是讓海大無償貢獻資源運動部掛名紙上中心那我想請問市長何時才能正式編列預算停止紙上作業善用基隆的海洋優勢在基隆海大周邊建立一個真正的國家級海洋運動訓練中心呢115年的248億預算裡面是否有匡列相關的可行性評估或遷期規劃費用"},{"start":11272.813,"end":11301.845,"text":"保護委員那個當然海大應該是不中央的吧那個不是那個是我們絕對全力支持那我們現在在全台灣有17個排列出17個據點那當然基隆是其中一個那這部分我們目前補助過去補助的是活動而已那現在針對它的一些設施的部分全民運輸還有編列預算在明年會來執行那大概預計年初的時候會讓縣市政府來做申請那海域的部分我們會是我們接下來推動的一個重要的一個政策方向"},{"start":11302.185,"end":11330.189,"text":"那这部分我们再来跟基隆市跟学校这边来谈一谈怎么合作好 其实老实讲刚刚听我有问到有关电竞那刚好我自己除了立委身份之外我现在也是兼任这个基隆市SBL篮球队的总领队那我也想请问一下那对于篮球运动现在我们到底有两个职业联盟吗还是三个 两个那请问一下运动部对于两个职业联盟无法合并的案子那您有什么想法"},{"start":11331.058,"end":11349.348,"text":"包委員這部分總不能說就商業機制吧這個事情全台灣的籃球迷都在看著呢這部分據我所知李部長應該有一些想法我想他應該會在近期會跟這兩個聯盟會有一些找來談一下啦"},{"start":11349.568,"end":11369.513,"text":"具體的想法您知道是什麼呢?因為這個案子不管是T1以前叫TBBL還是現在的Pleague其實這兩個聯盟都沒有辦法聯合在一起沒有辦法合併在一起其實是全國籃球人口都在看的事情而且老實說大家都覺得這個事情不應該這個樣子去發展"},{"start":11371.613,"end":11400.143,"text":"那我想在這邊時間也到了 運動部在這邊責無旁貸這件事情麻煩請上心 這件事情不管是說基隆剛剛提的不管是基隆的國家羽球館還是有關基隆海大的這個訓練中心還是有關那個氣候平權甚至最後面有關兩聯盟未來的走向還有籃球三級的訓練我想這些事情運動部都不能再責無旁貸都不能再繼續推脫下去 那想請部長針對這些案子以後"},{"start":11400.623,"end":11411.481,"text":"如果可以的話請給本席一些書面報告讓本席回去好好研讀可以嗎好謝謝委員謝謝次長好謝謝林沛翔委員那次長請回座"},{"start":11415.823,"end":11432.393,"text":"現在請伍麗華委員質詢不過我先要講一下是等一下在吳佩儀委員之後我們有個臨時提案就會請現在的兩位委員就希望能夠暫時就先留下來處理謝謝那伍麗華委員謝謝主席有請鄭次長鄭次長請委員好"},{"start":11439.259,"end":11456.682,"text":"市長好 其實我們常常有聽到現在的園民會主委在很多的場合他都會說如果運動沒有原住民就不精彩了那他也常常舉例說我們的職棒有二分之一以上的選手都是原住民"},{"start":11457.863,"end":11482.12,"text":"但是我們來看我們的運動賽事就是針對原住民的部分目前全國大概就是全國原住民組運動會而且這個運動會還不是原民會辦的是教育部辦的我在這邊就是有很多次的質詢不論是原民會的前主委或現任主委"},{"start":11483.061,"end":11505.106,"text":"或甚至是到外交部我都有去建議說可不可以請園民會自己要有一個運動會至少辦一個南島的運動會或南太平洋運動會那我很感謝因為現任的園民會主委有聽進去所以呢下個月12月會在屏東高雄"},{"start":11505.746,"end":11520.508,"text":"邀請11個南島國家跟台灣的各個族群來一場世界援助民族運動會那我在這邊也邀請我們運動部部長 次長能夠一同共襄盛舉好嗎"},{"start":11521.596,"end":11537.549,"text":"好 謝謝委員邀請那我們來看一下這個比賽呢它競技項目有十項像傳統射箭 躍舞 鋸木等等等 划船好 那我現在就是要提到像這一些項目其實也不是"},{"start":11538.69,"end":11557.271,"text":"無中生有 憑空生出來的它大概是目前在很多我們國內地方的像鄉運或者全國原住民族運動會或者是在世界各國都有這一些項目可是我們來看一下我們關心的是什麼以傳統設建來講"},{"start":11559.153,"end":11577.924,"text":"我們知道現代的射箭它是反屈弓複合弓因此我們要考裁判的證照像C級也是以兩個反屈弓複合弓來考可是原住民的傳統弓它就沒有這一些現代的比賽規則又或者說我們看傳統摔角"},{"start":11581.286,"end":11602.487,"text":"像中華民國摔角協會它的競賽規則技術手冊它的這些項目其實跟我們在舉辦的這些傳統摔角根本沒有辦法相對應不過我們可以看到傳統摔角有列入國家文化記憶庫所以我第一個問題就是想請教一下運動部請教次長"},{"start":11604.648,"end":11624.118,"text":"將這些原住民傳統民俗運動規則化制定一個全國統一技術規則手冊利於我們的國際能見度利於推展這些運動利於辦理研習取得證照讓原住民傳統運動的裁判跟教練成為專業次長你支持這個方向嗎"},{"start":11624.881,"end":11653.534,"text":"包括原則上我們支持不過我們在做這件事情的時候通常我會希望它有一個既有的一個協會來協助這邊我會責成全民運動署的署長這邊來會後我們來了解一下原則上方向我們是支持的好 謝謝為什麼我這樣子關心因為我們其實長期以來對於所謂的民俗運動所謂的傳統競技這樣的一個名詞的框架定義感到很困擾"},{"start":11654.494,"end":11680.484,"text":"因為在世界上我們都認為那些是正式的原住民的項目可是回到我們中華民國的法令像這個國民體育法施行細則第三條我國固有之下列優良的體育活動國武術華龍舟舞龍舞獅宋江鎮跳鼓鎮扯鈴跳繩踢毽子陀螺其他民俗體育活動我們就不禁想問"},{"start":11681.644,"end":11706.958,"text":"那原住民是哪一國的那這一些運動項目是屬於誰的民俗那我們來看一下喔其實以113年全民運動會我們可以看到 你看項目有什麼呢傳統體育它就列了民俗體育 太極拳 元吉舞 龍舟摔角國術 龍獅運動依然看不到原住民的傳統民俗"},{"start":11708.597,"end":11734.044,"text":"這個學年度的民俗體育扎根學校的實施計畫你看要推展的目標跳繩扯鈴踢劍陀螺鼓翼舞龍舞獅器磚波拉棒流星球你看叫原住民的這一些推動民俗的或者傳統競技項目的這些老師教練情何以堪情何以堪次長你了解我的意思"},{"start":11735.026,"end":11763.215,"text":"甚至全民運這次我們看到今年辦理的他說突破以往用學校為參加對象的模式開放運動社團俱樂部宮廟你看他這些項目依然扯鈴跳繩陀螺舞證文證扯鈴醒獅台灣獅舞龍舞獅什麼都有就看不到任何一項所以我想請教一下那個次長"},{"start":11764.595,"end":11770,"text":"全國運動賽事除了這些漢人的民俗運動應不應該加入原住民的民俗運動項目"},{"start":11771.311,"end":11797.867,"text":"八五園站在平權的角度我當然希望全部融入但是我們現在給原民的運動這件事情原民運動會這部分我們給的支持度是遠高於民俗體育所以融入的話可能會反而削減了原住民運動這部分的經費他的享受到的權益次長完全不會如果您能夠回答說因為"},{"start":11799.228,"end":11824.061,"text":"這些規則沒有統一的規則規則這個我們會處理我還能接受但是如果你說會削弱全國原住民因為大家融在一起之後這個資源就會分散了嗎我覺得經費永遠都可以編列都可以增加它沒有一個大水庫分散的問題如果我們覺得這些項目是增加的科目是重要的我們都會來支持這樣的預算編列好嗎"},{"start":11824.781,"end":11849.403,"text":"包委員您是希望把原民運動會不要舉辦把所有的項目融到全民運動會裡面來嗎我的意思是說國民體育法它有所謂的民俗運動所以我們在辦理全民運也好民俗體育紮根學校也好全國民俗運動會也好因為我們的法源我們的國民體育法它沒有列所以你們就不列"},{"start":11850.584,"end":11867.811,"text":"所以我們好像是局外人我們只能夠配說辦一個全國原族民族運動會你們自己玩你們的項目我覺得這個不是一個友善的做法這也不是體育平權的做法是 沒有錯沒錯這部分我們回來檢討那我們來改進好不好"},{"start":11868.271,"end":11897.034,"text":"好那接下來就是我關心的就是因為我們看到補助目前傳統運動只有兩種補助模式一個是全國性體育社團另外一個是就是學校那我是這樣子想啦既然你們都已經標榜說有把這個突破以往以學校為參加對象的模式開放運動社團俱樂部宮廟都可以那我覺得是不是可以補助模式也打開"},{"start":11898.599,"end":11898.702,"text":"可以嗎"},{"start":11901.104,"end":11927.504,"text":"這部分應該沒有太大問題好 謝謝最後因為時間關係我想關心一下關於你們推動全民運動署推動的多元族群運動因為我看到你們的夜報專報有寫女性的高齡者的運動方案什麼都有了我是還是回歸到那一件事因為我也希望說我們的運動部"},{"start":11931.087,"end":11951.439,"text":"運動部也能夠去辦理一個關於原住民族的一些多元的運動多元族群的運動為什麼呢我看到像福爾摩沙古道國際越野賽它是在我們的這個崇山峻嶺重回祖靈懷抱的極限之路像這樣的一個"},{"start":11952.697,"end":11974.888,"text":"原住民傳統領域的一個國際的賽事受到很大的矚目而且它是國際的規模甚至像近年很有名的斯巴達障礙賽這些都其實受到國際很多的參與度我是覺得說我們原住民如果也能夠辦理這一類的障礙賽"},{"start":11976.348,"end":12003.824,"text":"您可以理解像傳統 富重 沙王設計一些具備文化敏感度的賽事設計它就成為全民原教全世界來認識不錯 對而且有16個族透過這個障礙賽認識16個族群所以我是希望說運動部願不願意舉辦類似的原住民的這種越野障礙賽然後最重要的就是達成多元族群運動"},{"start":12004.944,"end":12029.959,"text":"還有全民原教以及促進觀光運動平權市長您的意見如何報委員這個部分是過去體育署無能為力但是接下來運動部全民動署已經可以把這個納進來所以我們歡迎當然署長也講說我們會再主動跟這個族群的相關人士來聯繫希望他們來一起來申請補助那我們一起來努力謝謝那我希望說我今天"},{"start":12030.679,"end":12048.122,"text":"谈的这几个议题可以在两周内提供书面恢复或到办公室一起来讨论也可以包委员我们先到办公室跟委员讨论那也拜托委员把相关的你刚刚提到这些族群他们这些专业人士也一起帮我们邀请来让我们认识一下好 感恩谢谢委员"},{"start":12048.502,"end":12076.84,"text":"好 謝謝主席好 謝謝吳立華委員替原住民跟我們的運動部做牽線是非常好的事情好 那現在請吳佩奕委員質詢謝謝主席我請運動部鄭世忠次長請次長委員長 委員長次長好"},{"start":12078.331,"end":12106.813,"text":"最近發生一件台灣棒球迷都非常關注而且更加擔憂的事情就是中國的棒球城市聯賽預計明年1月要開打傳出有上海兄弟隊的這個隊徽吉祥物跟球衣配色都跟我們中職中信兄弟有高度相似所以球迷就痛批說這是在吃我們台灣豆腐嗎雖然現在中國的說法是不會有上海兄弟隊"},{"start":12107.774,"end":12129.441,"text":"但是我認為我們仍然要非常高度的競爵中國是不是有在準備有意圖的系統性來挖角台灣的棒球球員中國是不是有意圖性的要來掏空台灣的職棒那為什麼呢因為他這個中國聯賽的規定他說每一支球隊30人裡面"},{"start":12132.354,"end":12144.808,"text":"台灣香港澳門的球員不得少於10人30人裡面台港澳門球員不能少於10人他們最想要的就是台灣的球員所以陸委會其實有給我們示警"},{"start":12145.97,"end":12173.944,"text":"梁文傑副主委他指出這個中國聯賽背後是一家運動行銷公司試圖要來複製台灣棒球的經驗最嚴重的有可能是還要把大批的台灣球員拉到中國去次長你有沒有掌握相關的訊息報委員我們在幾個月前看到這個訊息就有主動跟陸委會聯繫所以也跟中華職棒聯繫所以我們其實三方都一直在溝通"},{"start":12174.98,"end":12192.741,"text":"那这部分我们当然有在关注那如果违反两岸关系条例的话那这部分陆友会不会来出手那在运动部的角色我们当然就是协助中华职棒那更壮大可以来面临各种挑战我们希望高端人才是喜欢留在台湾发展而不是到对岸去"},{"start":12193.001,"end":12201.069,"text":"好 這個事件我們希望它只是單一事件但我們害怕它是系統性的所以一定要高度的警覺為什麼因為過去我們的半導體產業就曾經發生中國長期在挖角我們半導體工程師要幹嘛要竊取我們的技術跟經驗"},{"start":12210.899,"end":12227.217,"text":"所以他這個竊取是國家級的竊取喔就在去年而已檢調就發現有八家中國的企業他偽裝成是喬外資在挖角台灣的工程師然後查下去發現背後的金主甚至有中國的財政部"},{"start":12228.248,"end":12249.56,"text":"所以他如果是中國政府有系統性有意圖性的要來掏空挖角台灣的棒球的話我們真的要高度的警戒那我也很認同作為政府我們不應該是限制球員發展但是我們要來茁壯打造台灣好的棒球環境這就包括了產業包括了基層棒球包括了職業棒球"},{"start":12250.1,"end":12263.758,"text":"所以目前首先有關於這個對揮抄襲的事件 疑似抄襲的事件如果說將來下一步球團或球員因此有法律上權益的受損運動部我們可不可以全力幫忙支持"},{"start":12264.381,"end":12278.405,"text":"這個我們一定會來協助啦這個沒有問題好那我剛講到基層棒球因為除了直棒以外這個我們都有所聞啦就中國呢他會利用落地招待的方式來拉攏我們基層棒球去一地訓練這是"},{"start":12280.686,"end":12290.539,"text":"正在發生的事情所以呢同樣的我們要來支持京城棒球的發展那我看到我們明年有一筆有一筆預算一個是學校運動團隊國際運動交流這一筆的預算是7300萬"},{"start":12298.569,"end":12316.967,"text":"這邊說我一定支持全力支持那也請你們要加強跟立法院我們的委員來溝通這很重要好不好因為我們的選手確實你需要從基層開始就要給他有國際交流去訓練的機會但是我們如果不支持他中國政府另一方面用大量的資源投入我落地來招待"},{"start":12317.968,"end":12331.902,"text":"通通都幫你們出錢那很有可能只有我們是系統性的台灣棒球選手從小就被拉去中國所以這個一定要支持我們來投注基層的這個棒球那同時呢棒球之所以在台灣為國球"},{"start":12333.744,"end":12348.419,"text":"國人大家都味為風尚非常的關注也很喜愛那我們的產業值棒到今年已經36年了這是中國追不上的此外我們有非常深的底蘊台灣棒球是百年歷史日本時代1906年"},{"start":12349.38,"end":12365.146,"text":"台北一中也就是現在建國中學成立了台灣第一支棒球隊1907年新公園棒球場就是現在的228是成立了第一座棒球全台的棒球場因為這兩個都剛好在我的選區台北市中正區所以我也很關切我想喔"},{"start":12366.187,"end":12377.498,"text":"我們台灣的棒球不是中國來抄一個logo就可以抄的走的所以我希望我們運動部還是要持續的去投注資源在我們剛剛說的產業基層跟職棒上面讓我們的棒球環境可以讓我們的選手他們願意而且值得留下來"},{"start":12384.665,"end":12406.469,"text":"那除了剛剛次長你承諾的以外呢你知道這個國家運動博物館我們委會大家也都很關切那我們運動部現在已經編列了明年我看到你們兩筆預算一個是辦理運動文化中長城推動計畫500萬一個是建置國家運動博物館可行性評估目前有沒有相關的內容了"},{"start":12406.869,"end":12433.087,"text":"報告委員 在中程的計畫這部分當然牽涉到除了盤點之外最主要是展示以及後面的商轉這部分我們原則上可能會請我們在體育史方面的專家林玫君老師來協助我們做一個整體的規劃博物館的評估方面也是另外一個專案我們目前請在博物館方面非常有經驗的謝思淵教授也來做這個協助的可行性的評估"},{"start":12433.407,"end":12456.723,"text":"所以這兩個計畫在明年1月1號開始會來正式來進行所以這需要一點時間好 因為過去在立法院我們也開過公聽會運動文化記憶保存那我只是要提醒其實運動部過去體育署也不是你們現在做運動文化記憶也不是從零開始有些過去累積的基礎例如我們有辦過運動產業博覽會當時有做過一批的史料整理這個要去把它找出來"},{"start":12457.563,"end":12473.544,"text":"我聽說還是沒有還是有散落各地的情形把它找出來這個當時做過的史料都可以來承接繼續去累積第二個我們要跨部會合作我上週也幫你們諮詢了文化部文化部跟運動部我們現在其實有一些專案都在合作當中例如說明年亞運我們的這個"},{"start":12475.066,"end":12496.338,"text":"台史博就有籌備要做亞運的特展等等要來做跨部會的合作那甚至像我們的國科會也有台灣運動文化研究專案的計畫我想這個都是我們很好的一個基礎我們很期待可以趕快把國家運動博物館能夠來啟用那除了內容上面現在我們可以同步進行的事情是什麼市長你知道嗎就是選址啊"},{"start":12499.449,"end":12521.05,"text":"不然你內容規劃好了才要開始選址包括我們在選址的部分目前有沒有想法目前的規劃就是連同運動部未來的位置跟博物館的位置我們都一起來尋找好 我這邊做一個提議就如同我剛剛所說的就在我的選區台北市中正區有台灣第一支棒球隊有台灣第一個棒球場而我目前我看過因為周遭的這個國有土地多"},{"start":12521.87,"end":12538.382,"text":"目前其實有潛力的這個公有空間建築的所以呢我建議你們可以來進行一個盤點那有需要跨部會協調我也很樂意來協助第三點要跟次長討論就在去年就在去年抱歉這個我會比較有情緒去年我在這裡就質詢過次長攔血"},{"start":12541.503,"end":12568.869,"text":"這麼一個單項協會召開會員大會竟然連自己的張誠理事長當時都沒有遵守張誠就在主持會議當時市長你是這個勃然大怒啊你說一定去警告有沒有去警告了有去喊警告嗎 結構咧今年又來啦藍協的會員來跟我們陳情說藍協的會員大會今年第一次5月本來要召開留會這個月11月1號預計要召開第二次再度留會"},{"start":12570.109,"end":12580.727,"text":"所以今年度來到現在已經11月了攔斜的會員大會到現在都沒開成導致他的預算工作計畫會員都不知道次長你有沒有訊息掌握"},{"start":12581.417,"end":12598.712,"text":"有 報告委員這部分也反映出我們在開放全民參與特定體育團體的選舉其實也不難看到很多的協會他們會比較不正常的協會會開始利用一些人頭類似人頭的狀況來加入"},{"start":12600.293,"end":12627.393,"text":"那加入很多人和會員的缺點就是你會員大會就開不成所以目前籃球協會有一方突然在今年加入了300個另外一邊加入了兩三百個這樣加一加其實會員大會根本開不成那這個是目前我們面臨到的問題啦所以這部分我們現在也是會我想競技室這邊會跟籃協這邊會拒絕連會員大會都開不成這樣的單項協會說要保障選手權益說要公開透明做得到嗎"},{"start":12629.588,"end":12650.873,"text":"如果沒有召開會員大會按照我們人民團體法這有沒有違法包委員我過去曾經撤換過一位理事長當時他是第四次開不成的時候我把他報告給內政部把他撤換掉我曾經做過這件事情如果沒有召開會員大會直接違反人民團體法那我們"},{"start":12652.618,"end":12671.92,"text":"單向協會我們一直在要求就是他們要公正透明嘛對不對你說什麼預算通過理見是可以通過問題是你沒有開會員大會會員都不知道你們在搞什麼東西既不公正也不透明我們不能允許這樣的事情一再發生市長去年你就去選警告了結果今年人家不甩你啊繼續開不成會員大會"},{"start":12674.946,"end":12686.133,"text":"你們運動部要怎麼做去年是理事長沒有親自出席沒錯我的意思是說有規定在他就一再不遵守規定嘛是法律規定為無誤嘛看不起你們運動部嘛來 市長你現在要怎麼做幫委員目前"},{"start":12693.356,"end":12714.795,"text":"我們現在基本上是他們3月就要改選的啦那我們現在是已經把他們的所有的會員名冊都已經統整起來那現在因為我們在要撤換理事長部分我們還是要經得內政部的同意啦我想兩次留會我這邊要求就是運動部你們要積極介入積極介入積極的監管"},{"start":12718.342,"end":12743.1,"text":"他們要開會你們都應該要派人到現場有 我沒有派人我沒有到現場去我們不能讓這樣子連基本的規定都無法遵守的協會來去掌握我們選手這麼多重大的事物請你們要趕快去積極的介入好嗎好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝主席好 謝謝吳佩奕委員次長請回座"},{"start":12744.161,"end":12767.261,"text":"我們現在就進入到處理臨時議案的時間今天有委員提出臨時提案議案請宣讀臨時提案案由有鑒於主頭操作賽事以強暴脅迫詐欺或其他非法方式妨礙運動競技之公平性不僅破壞運動精神更嚴重損及職業及業餘運動產業發展"},{"start":12770.143,"end":12795.956,"text":"政府在鼓勵企業投資捐贈運動事業之際亦應考量如何藉由民間資源投入賽事公平維護與賭博防治相關措施建請運動部研議如何透過運動產業發展條例之捐贈機制或其他方法設立專案基金或鼓勵企業資金挹注用於運動賽事防弊、裁判教育檢舉獎勵及宣導等工作"},{"start":12796.716,"end":12821.761,"text":"促進公私協力共同防治妨礙賽事公平之不法行為維護運動產業健全與永續發展並於三個月內將研議結果之書面報告送進立法院教育及文化委員會提案人劉書斌柯志恩萬美玲宣讀完畢好那請提案委員老師我還有各位委員在現場的有無補充或是意見"},{"start":12823.683,"end":12840.745,"text":"好 那請問次長有沒有補充意見報告召委我們是不是可以建議在第五行的最後面設立專案基金或這七個字是否能夠允許刪除因為經由運發基金應該不太需要再另外設一個基金"},{"start":12841.42,"end":12858.315,"text":"好應該是大家有沒有意見沒有因為的確是這邊會涉及到是在第7條之3的內容部分那有相關剛才行政部門也有提出來就是說這邊有好幾個這個帳戶這還有包括基金這部分"},{"start":12858.875,"end":12879.143,"text":"那現在就是說那個機制部分沒有看到有相關條文但是機制到底是什麼沒有出來那本席這邊跟其他委員的部分提出來就是說要把這個三個月之內把這個研議的這樣這個結果把它呈現出來讓我們教委委員會都可以知道說他有更具體的一個進展就對了這是我們的一個提案的一個目的好那如果"},{"start":12880.143,"end":12905.18,"text":"在場委員跟次長這邊也提供了一個補充因為我也同意說這邊就把它刪掉這幾個次設立專案基金或這部分就把它刪掉那這部分就給大家沒有意見我們就通過囉好通過好謝謝趙偉謝謝那各提案這個提案如果有委員要補簽請議事人員詳細登載在議事錄當中好那接著我們來進行質詢現在輪到的是趙偉陳秀寶"},{"start":12914.757,"end":12938.319,"text":"謝謝主席 請鄭次長鄭次長請委員好次長好次長您覺得對於各單項協會的改革到目前為止有沒有什麼成效您覺得我們的民眾對於單項協會的這個看法態度及評價有沒有提升或者說您覺得說"},{"start":12941.522,"end":12965.12,"text":"單項協會他長期仰賴政府資源的這個狀況有沒有改善單項協會我們他仰賴我們政府資源的挹注我們補助他我們協助他所以我們有監督他的這個責任但是不能讓他們一直靠著政府的資源他們應該要有一個機制來做他們單項協會的自主運作那到目前為止次長您覺得說這個相關的改革到現在有什麼成效"},{"start":12967.199,"end":12986.292,"text":"報告委員 這個其實層面非常廣不過我們陸陸續續也是在協會這邊我們給選手更多的支持那也督促協會的行政這一塊能夠盡可能的環善特別是在跟選手將來的溝通方面希望能夠放下身段來做好好的溝通這部分其實是目前有在改善"},{"start":12986.772,"end":13000.963,"text":"因為我們有一些講補助我們有一些補助給單項協會是所以我們我剛剛講我們有這個監督的這個責任我們對於選手的權益選手的這個相關我們都要非常非常的注重但是現在"},{"start":13002.944,"end":13012.716,"text":"我們都知道說單項協會的辦公室就設在運動部的體育大樓裡面那基本上呢在裡面設置的單項協會包括中華奧會體育總局單項協會總共有56個團體在我們的運動大樓"},{"start":13020.064,"end":13043.413,"text":"那他們所使用的空間將近1300坪比我們自己運動部的同仁可以使用的空間還要大還要多所以我們新設單位像全民運動署國家運動產業發展中心產業及科技司還有資訊處就必須要另外花費工廠到外面去租用空間來辦公"},{"start":13045.034,"end":13073.803,"text":"那我們現在跟單項協會雖然是有收租金的但是是根據體育聯合辦公大樓的這個管理要點是民國95年的基準所以換算下來各單項協會我們收他的租金一坪換算下來是800元那停車費更便宜租金是1000元但是我們自己的單位我們去外面租呢換算下來一個單位一坪要3000多元所以次長你覺得這是合理的嗎"},{"start":13075.509,"end":13098.312,"text":"包括委員 這個在規劃運動部成立的時候其實那個階段我們其實都有討論過那因為這個大樓之前其實是早年政府蓋給這些單位協會跟總會那後來我們在外面的體育委會被監察院糾正才要求體育委會搬進來到體育大樓所以我們算是有點像是外來者"},{"start":13098.956,"end":13123.854,"text":"那当然我们现在为了解决这个问题我们想在外面去寻找一个真正运动部的永久的地址这才是能够研究解决那本席刚才提到了关于这个收费的这个标准这个部分我们目前的确有在做后续会做检讨那这部分是不是容许给我们一点时间因为我看了一下你们明年度的预算书你们这个租金收入是1700万但是我们付出去的租金会到2940万"},{"start":13125.717,"end":13149.747,"text":"所以這個根本是一個很不合理的現象啊然後當然說如果他們是先到的他們先來這邊我們之前也答應他們就是提供這個空間給他們那在租金的這個部分是不是應該要做調整那個租金到明年底這個部分我帶回去是不是我們部裡面來做一個演繹看看要怎麼來那你一個月之內給我一份相關的你們調整的這個方案可以嗎"},{"start":13150.765,"end":13166.585,"text":"可以好那接下來我再請教一下次長針對考選部表示將要針對體育行政人員靠高考的這個課目進行調整要將運動社會學跟體育行政與管兩科來兩個考科要合併"},{"start":13167.566,"end":13188.282,"text":"那運動社會學其實會涉及到探討運動跟社會文化政治經濟性別階級及媒體等等面向互動的核心學科不僅是有助於理解運動的政策形成檢討還有進行的這個社會基礎也更能夠提供制度改革跟公共治理的這個方面分析的視野"},{"start":13188.982,"end":13215.962,"text":"那現在把兩個考科合併也引起相關的這個領域學者的擔憂我想請教次長我們運動部在考選部做這個決定你們有受到徵詢針對這兩個合併是應該是沒有徵詢我們運動部但是我們知道考選部的本意是希望將考試的時間可能從三天縮短到一天半吸引更多的年輕的學子來報考公職人員"},{"start":13216.502,"end":13234.716,"text":"考試時間簡短但是他相關的這個科目他的分數占比一樣啊所以他要準備的功課是一樣的是所以抱怨這部分我們再來如果考選部來問我們的意見我們再跟他討論好不好那所以那運動部你們的看法次長你自己的看法目前我沒有看法因為這部分"},{"start":13235.416,"end":13252.144,"text":"没有看法因为考选部还没有来问我们那事实上我们现在只有看到两个学者在网路上我问你的时候你现在你想你的看法包委我觉得运动社会学如果担任过一个首长的话在运动社会学其实是一个大帽子所以我们很多的像体育政策"},{"start":13252.904,"end":13273.465,"text":"它整個是運動對整個社會的衝擊影響它算是很大的一個帽子那底下很多的手段包括你的自然科學這些生理 力學還有你的行政管理等等都是執行面它這兩個面向的確不太一樣但是我想學者我本身也是學者出來我想他們擔心的是說這個部分會不會因此"},{"start":13274.506,"end":13303.155,"text":"讓他們的這個考試在這個領域能夠就萎縮掉了我想這個擔憂是情有可原所以這部分我想還是要請考選部召集我們運動部跟這幾個學科領域的資深教授來討論考試是一個甄選的方法是但是本身這個考科有沒有影響到考生他要去準備的時候他的想法跟他本身對這個學科他的理解度跟他所報告委員我舉個例子"},{"start":13303.775,"end":13325.325,"text":"我本來是物理治療的背景那我們有一個物理治療評估學評估學裡面就包含骨科神經小兒跟心肺哪一個不重要都很重要但是他就並在同一科來考所以我一直說這個部分的確學生在準備本來就很困難那我還是希望考選部能夠找這幾個領域的資深學者一起來坐下來好好談"},{"start":13325.885,"end":13350.886,"text":"因為考選部的說法說最快明年的高考就會施行了但是如果說這樣子合併起來是不是會影響到體育行政人員他在執行業務產出這個政策相關的專業度會不會有影響所以我也希望說當徵詢到你們的時候你們的立場跟你們態度因為全民運動署現在也成立了我覺得很多民眾對我們運動部對全民運動署是有非常大的期待"},{"start":13351.246,"end":13362.199,"text":"那這些相關的政策都涉及到不同層面及群眾我希望說運動部是很謹慎的來面對思考這件事情好那我們再回到單項協會要跟您討論是關於足協的問題根據審計部的這個查核資料報告來看"},{"start":13368.686,"end":13396.025,"text":"本期针对足协在112年申请转播费的这段况来跟次长您做讨论五项的补助计划有五项都超支其中2024年世界杯资格赛第一轮的部分超支率是来到200%那签合的是体育署想请问一下次长您觉得这样合理吗我觉得不合理不过超支的部分有他们自筹您也觉得不合理但是你们还是签给他但是还是请他自筹"},{"start":13398.772,"end":13420.695,"text":"體育署的這個審查機制如果說在當體育署的在試體育署的時候是不是很符合這個標準的話目前我們是運動部了那我們相關的審核機制會不會精進會 我們從這次的經驗我們內部其實有去做討論我想這部分我們未來的把關會比較嚴格"},{"start":13422.301,"end":13443.602,"text":"我想問一下之前的這個我剛剛提到了關於說他們所申請的這個補助費這個轉播費他們原來的預算數是50萬但是呢超支了嘛那每一個都超支是之前他們所估算的金額就是錯誤的或者說是因為只要他報上來我們就給他"},{"start":13445.253,"end":13457.23,"text":"包委員說實在轉播這件事情跟轉播台數跟他整個品質跟各家報價這個不是我的專業但是我們還是會希望他能夠提出合理的說明不然我們這邊把關其實"},{"start":13459.229,"end":13480.714,"text":"因為審計部也已經在114年的3月12就有發函請你們要檢討改善關於這個部分他說體育署未要求逐協申請計劃補助要強烈經費編列的基準及估算的方式你們也沒有這個審核機制未經嚴謹這個部分我想你們都知道這個"},{"start":13482.914,"end":13506.587,"text":"給你們的訊息我只是想知道說報委員我們在114年開始我們就限制他的轉播數轉播的那個經費最高只能報50萬好那再來我想請教次長喔您有一個受訪的時候你們的回答你的回答是很難人尋味您說當了署長的時候呢叫我們的委員會的委員很特別要你大力支持竹協讓協會的財務趕快解決你才會鼓勵竹協辦活動"},{"start":13510.589,"end":13539.649,"text":"但是我们希望你支持足协主要也是基于说足协能够正常的运作才能维护我们所有选手的权益但是这个部分呢足协在办活动呢他不仅说相关的刚刚提到的经费超支场地也搞不定也牺牲到球员的权益所以这个部分我希望说再来我们在升格之后呢我们相关的机制有精进呢那省纪部所指出这些要改善的部分呢你们不会再犯这样的错误"},{"start":13541.201,"end":13561.71,"text":"這部分我們從這個審計的報告我們有學到很多的經驗這部分我們會嚴格來做檢討好 謝謝次長您的承諾那再請教竹賢現在正面你的這個人事的震盪那個李市長他要辭職然後被未留但是李市長他的辭役是很堅定那想請教說竹賢現在會不會啟動這個補任的這個事宜"},{"start":13568.035,"end":13579.282,"text":"我目前只知道主席的理事長已經堅決辭職也離開了那按照他們的章程45天之內要補選那這部分我再請經濟事這邊再來輔導他們那這個補任期間的相關協會的事務會不會順利 會不會停擺"},{"start":13585.404,"end":13602.618,"text":"目前他們應該是用副理事長來代理不過這部分我還是請經濟師這邊趕快讓他們選出一個因為關心運動關心賽事的民眾都很擔心如果足協是停擺的會不會又影響到選手的權益所以我在這邊要要求運動部你們應該要守護選手的權益"},{"start":13604.019,"end":13625.719,"text":"那希望接下來如果說主協這個整個的補任事宜沒有很順暢的話但是相關的賽事我們還是要讓它後面的這個運行是順暢的主協這邊負責報名但是相關的主訓後勤上的運動部跟國訓是不是可以接手是不是可以協助包委我們會協助因為希望說"},{"start":13629.114,"end":13652.892,"text":"運動部這邊一定要負責能夠對選手的權益有照顧到因為再來比較重要的賽事是明年3月有個女主亞洲盃所以相關的我們這個球隊我們的相關的選手的主訓應該是現在就已經開始安排了那這個部分請我們運動部這邊要負責這個你們要有負起這個監督的責任"},{"start":13655.834,"end":13666.96,"text":"不要再讓我們相關的選手有權益受到影響這部分你能承諾嗎包委員可以好謝謝好謝委員謝謝陳秀寶委員次長請回座現在請黃國昌委員質詢時間4分鐘謝謝主席麻煩請次長請次長"},{"start":13686.584,"end":13715.943,"text":"委員好市長喔民營足協的事情啊我追了非常久平數大把大把的銀子去補助全胡搞瞎搞搶取公開揭發以後民營足協的錢啊說要去追回來我一直跟你們要求提出會計師的查核報告去年一直要一直不給"},{"start":13720.314,"end":13747.261,"text":"到今年我們在處理去年總預算協商前你們採用密件的方式回覆說會計師早在去年11月26號完成了查核報告教育部對民理主席我是不曉得有什麼特殊關係配置啊能拖就拖啊能換就換啊能遮掩就遮掩"},{"start":13748.345,"end":13768.922,"text":"但我的原則很清楚納稅的錢不是拿去胡搞瞎搞的該賺回來的每一筆都要追回來所以我請教你你說就民意組結的部分我問除了移政法辦有沒有要做行政懲處你說有"},{"start":13772.696,"end":13789.849,"text":"把這個錢繳回然後要求他們去做內部的懲處我先請教第一個問題內部做了什麼懲處這是你回覆我的內容在去年10月16號的時候做了什麼懲處有懲處嗎"},{"start":13794.904,"end":13820.301,"text":"對不起我印象中好像那個內政部好像針對這個人民團體的部分好像有限期改善然後不然的話就要把他們給解散啊我跟你講齁你在國會告訴我說你有要求他們去做內部的懲處嗎一個禮拜之內用書面回覆我做了什麼內部的懲處可以嗎因為我問題很多啦可以嗎可以承諾齁好第二個錢要繳回來"},{"start":13821.906,"end":13850.723,"text":"你們上次今年3月10號回覆我 分兩筆啦查出來的有1000多萬 分兩筆有一筆呢 金額比較小是103萬3594元你們說明你租鞋已經在113年8月26號辦理繳回了真的嗎報告委員 他們是年底才會繳完分三個月繳完 然後下面的等一下等一下 先停一下"},{"start":13852.54,"end":13879.38,"text":"我們一筆一筆來啦1033594元你們上面說已經在113年8月26日辦理繳回了這個公文書上面的記載是真實的嗎包委員他們是分三個月你們以後公文書上面的記載就寫清楚不要用這種混的方式"},{"start":13880.523,"end":13907.245,"text":"任何人看了你們這樣的記載以為錢繳回來啦結果到今天才跟大家講原來是分期付款喔105萬分分103萬分幾期分三期現在繳了多少到年底繳 應該是每個月就繳 但年底錢會繳完你說分三期嘛第一期繳了多少"},{"start":13909.11,"end":13932.986,"text":"報告委員我這邊沒有數字沒關係一樣一個禮拜之內函附我可以嗎可以先請市長注意一件事他只會提供給我的資料我希望不要再出現虛偽不實的狀況可以承諾嗎可以我為什麼說虛偽不實給你們要資料要半天不給"},{"start":13934.158,"end":13962.705,"text":"我自己去找行政院訴願決定書 我在行政院訴願決定書看到行政院訴願決定書說繳回來多少錢兩萬三百二十元兩萬三百二十元兩萬三百二十元這是訴願決定書寫的你們給教育委員會當初我要求回覆的內容寫什麼"},{"start":13964.704,"end":13986.828,"text":"已經在113年8月26日辦理繳回款項是103萬天差地遠兩者之間的落差我相信次長看得出來吧可以嗎請用聲音回覆要不然立法院公報無法記載立法院公報沒有辦法記載說他你沒講話疑點頭"},{"start":13989.758,"end":14016.343,"text":"你看得出來嗎我看得出來他們是26才開始叫我這一次這一次回放的內容請真實完全的陳述不要再遮掩可以嗎沒有問題第二個部分還有1511萬什麼時候要做回來這部分已經達成協議由分10年來還款分10年每一年還多少"},{"start":14017.267,"end":14039.046,"text":"就除以10確定 確定抱歉 這個部分我按不要放水啊 我跟你們講我想還是一週內 請目前議員主席給要書面回覆啊在國內講一套私底下背著國人幹另外一套"},{"start":14039.994,"end":14064.236,"text":"要搞放水啊要搞放水啊我絕對不會接受一個禮拜之內書面回覆啊下一次到這邊來的時候我們繼續追謝謝謝謝黃國昌委員質詢請次長回座這部分可以看出來啊這個要委員的這個質詢啊持續下去的時候才發現事實才有真相這樣子蔑視真是要蔑視我們教文委員會"},{"start":14066.485,"end":14069.866,"text":"那現在請代會委員 委員質詢謝謝主席 有請那個政府次長請鄭次長次長午安 午安好今天跟你探討 運動部已經從體育署升格了那對於過去就是"},{"start":14090.274,"end":14106.915,"text":"體育署這一套僵化的一個補助的制度那來跟你做一下討論尤其就是說針對的就是優化全民運動以賽會環境計畫打造一個安全友善運動環境這一個核定的一個補助"},{"start":14107.896,"end":14123.127,"text":"那先從這一個整體的一個表格那在這個六都裡頭我們看到了新北市它全年是拿到2.2億那桃園是1.9億台南市是1.85那高雄市1.5億"},{"start":14124.668,"end":14144.827,"text":"我想前面的運動經會的一個分配的失衡然後基層支援的一個被排除那運動部升格有沒有辦法就是說把一些過去具有這些地方有一個安全性質堪慮的這些案子我們重新再拿出來討論而不是只是一個"},{"start":14145.527,"end":14163.663,"text":"就是說那個經貨已經用完了還是就是一直公文我想本席那個選區裡頭有一個叫夏營區這個夏營區的一個唯一的運動場叫做文小二使用的機率也非常的高全民那個就是在"},{"start":14164.747,"end":14188.532,"text":"全年五場的開放給大家來使用尤其是在週末週日這又是本區運動人口的一個聚集地那其實除了籃球場這個地方的民眾就是常聚集在這個地方使用那一直不斷的就是說爭取可是這個過程裡頭我們只看到了就是"},{"start":14190.069,"end":14205.25,"text":"老師是一紙公文的一個回覆那我想民眾對於全民運動的一個實際參與顯然在鄉下這個制度我們看不到那個期限也看不到這一個風險那市長是不是針對這個議題回覆一下"},{"start":14207.737,"end":14228.602,"text":"包委員 我們在過去體育署的時代 我們的確只能依賴公建計畫是所以公建計畫裡面 當然各縣市原則上是1.5億但是呢 針對各縣市它如果舉辦全國賽會會有另外的設施改善的補助所以這部分也是造成為什麼會有一些縣市會有不均的現象的阻音啊當然元素還有很多"},{"start":14229.502,"end":14244.597,"text":"至於針對這一個運動場我想我們現在我們也在跟行政院爭取針對全民運動所需要的一些場館的一些整修我們接下來希望跟縣市政府合作這部分我們在爭取當中也請委員在"},{"start":14245.937,"end":14260.863,"text":"我想把它列為一個優先的案子因為事實上就是說他需要的人口那麼多一個兩萬兩千個一個區域裡頭他一個這麼重要的一個運動場那我認為是值得我們去協助他的"},{"start":14261.423,"end":14285.77,"text":"我覺得就是說私底下請來報告一下這一個進度好 次長在運動部口口聲聲說要改革體育協會那改革如何落實這個也是今天要跟你探討的那我們看到了就是說在今年的十夜亞洲盃的資格賽中華足學被爆出用PPT當大螢幕轉播畫面還在現場修改簡報"},{"start":14291.032,"end":14306.122,"text":"這個其實對整場4000多名的一個球迷看球的這個球迷其實是一個非常不應該的一個作為那其實我們看到了就是說真正的就是在那個澳"},{"start":14306.943,"end":14321.9,"text":"澳亞硬的一個特定體育那個就是你們的一個平緩計畫裡頭我們看到的項目跟指標那指標一大堆可是平和太淺了你的真正的一個問題你被藏起來了甚至就是說"},{"start":14322.1,"end":14339.33,"text":"我們看到了很多該去檢討的我們看到的是有沒有辦不是看到了辦了怎麼樣那改革如果你一直靠是打分數的話那我們怎麼樣就是真正的改革這個是不是就是次長你來回應一下好不好"},{"start":14340.342,"end":14353.788,"text":"委員我們其實所有的國際賽都有訪世委員也會寫一些他們的報告但是針對這樣子的賽事行政的作為不當我們都會再列為下一次在補助的時候的扣款的一個原則之一指標之一"},{"start":14355.902,"end":14376.759,"text":"那我再提一個就是說今年桌寫在這個資格賽的一個種子籤裡頭又遺落到那個柚子同學還好這一次是有被發現你看這個新聞也提了很多我們也一樣看到了指標一樣只看到有沒有辦然後我們沒有看到過程"},{"start":14377.74,"end":14406.078,"text":"那我希望就是說運動部是不是在一個業內提出一個檢討的方案你把賽事的一個品質然後就是觀眾的一個體驗納入評分因為這所有的賽事我們當然希望更多的一個觀眾的來參與那重新檢討就是檢視整個恍視跟考核的機制我想這個你們已經是佈局的機關了應該拿出佈會的一個格局我們不要讓改革變成是一個笑話"},{"start":14406.758,"end":14432.735,"text":"報告委員我們在考核跟訪評的部分的制度我們現在的確在研議那因為經費是運動部真正的經費明年1月開始委員可不可以給我們兩個月的時間我們做一個完整的因為我們現在跟台評會這邊也就做整個西部的討論那我會把這個部分弄好之後再給報告給委員我們希望就是一個新的單位我們有更好的一個格局那也跟次長加油也跟所有的同仁加油大家一起加油謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":14434.656,"end":14449.92,"text":"謝謝代會委員 委員 次長請回現在請洪孟楷委員質詢好 主席謝謝 麻煩請鄭次長鄭次長請"},{"start":14455.72,"end":14480.51,"text":"市長 我想很多委員也都關心這個協會的部分剛剛看到黃國昌委員跟本席其實長期也都關心這個足協的一個狀況那我想還是對勢不對人重點是我們要把所有的協會單項都回歸到正軌那其中我們有看到說現在網路上有針對公共政策平台裡面針對足協有沒有看到說他有這個提案"},{"start":14481.721,"end":14487.782,"text":"因為現在復翼我沒有把這個資料帶過來但我想這個運動相關的部分你們應該也都很掌握了解"},{"start":14490.086,"end":14515.088,"text":"其中啦其中我就直接講啦其中我這不是要這不是要盲測考題啦我是直接講裡面有提到幾個部分是希望能夠正向回應這個訴求第一就是希望能夠落實輔導足協跟會員重歸這個國際足總認可的章程修正辦法來提起討論二也希望能夠有落實國民體育法全民參與的精神讓"},{"start":14516.269,"end":14534.744,"text":"各縣市的足球協會代表有民主代表的一個可能那以及本席有看到一個比較直接能夠來去做回應的是確實要督促中華足協的財務狀況確認以及調查每個月能夠公告中華足協的財務狀況跟還款情形"},{"start":14538.662,"end":14567.405,"text":"市長你怎麼看前面兩個提案我非常的贊成那第三個的提案目前據我過去的經驗卡關的地方在於如果是我們補助的款項那他怎麼使用他的金流他都必須要給我我們可以做公告都沒有問題那如果他個人他的協會他私人對外的欠款的部分這個恐怕我們還需要比較保守一點就是說這部分我是不是可以強迫他這件事情我是"},{"start":14568.726,"end":14597.074,"text":"但是就跟剛剛為什麼我看環委員 豪爵委員都講就是說這一個部分是不是就變成說沒有督促力而造成說我們未來是打算全面查核那這部分的法律的機制我們現在內部也在討論當中我們希望朝這個目的方向我們希望朝這個方向因為現在我們國民體育法通過之後其實各協會它每年都要公佈它的收支對不對那這沒有錯但是收支大家覺得太籠統了是"},{"start":14598.14,"end":14617.442,"text":"就是大家覺得太籠統所以說而且就是2017年公佈的這個法令那已經有這樣的一個制度但沒想到還是發生逐學這樣的狀況是也因此我們才想是說怎麼樣來補破網沒有針對哪一個協會但是如果說有真的做不好的協會我們該究責也要究責啊所以要怎麼樣"},{"start":14619.124,"end":14638.047,"text":"這個就是我們為什麼要兩年高密度的來做查核全面的查核包括了自籌款都要做查核這個是我們目前規劃的方向是至於說外界希望他把每一筆欠款都列出來這件事情就法律機制上面我們還需要再做討論我能不能強迫他去做公告但能不能掌握"},{"start":14638.507,"end":14654.045,"text":"我觉得我们主管机关能不能掌握因为到底他现在这样的一个状况那还有就是你会变成是教育文化委员会其实就像刚刚赵伟讲了就说其实这个议题已经不是讨论第一次对 包委我们可以掌握但是呢我可能没有办法直接交给"},{"start":14654.785,"end":14682.167,"text":"關心的委員們那些細節那至於他的還款的部分當然從法律的角度如果他欠你錢你當然也可以提起民事訴訟那事實上他很多的債主都是提起民事訴訟之後去達成一個還款的協議我也蠻贊成是這樣子的方法會比較直接那次長我可不可以再另外就教那未來因為我們其實法律也賦予我們主管機關以前是體育署現在是運動部就是有隨時稽查各協會的一個財務狀況的一個權利"},{"start":14684.429,"end":14709.972,"text":"那如果說你針對這部分沒有辦法每個月來去做公佈那能不能定期來公佈而不要是一年的時間包委員這個我們回去研究一下因為這個超出技術面技術層面當然每個協會他做帳他在管管理帳戶他的期程都不太一樣所以本席也在這邊講就是說我相信百分之大多數絕大多數我想到一件事就是"},{"start":14710.552,"end":14733.16,"text":"我們在之前就有要求說他每一季要把他的財務細節狀況要提報給李監事會議由監事來看那如果財務有惡化的情況的時候我們就要來做一個他也必須要對他的會員大會做揭露讓大家知道目前協會的現況目前我們有做到這一點但是每一季都有跟會員來做揭露嗎我們有提過一個檢核表啦"},{"start":14733.98,"end":14754.594,"text":"我們一個檢核表給他們那他們就要幹部幹事部要去填他哪些目前的財務比例 債務比例等等這些要給理監事會議去看市長 但是就我了解好像您剛剛提到就是說即便是我們有做這樣的一個決議但是都還沒有讓會員能夠了解對 他要提會員大會那就是監事他本身要去報告"},{"start":14755.134,"end":14769.669,"text":"那會員大會譬如說如果說他會員大會只有一年只開一次那不還是一樣會員大會一年要開兩次啦但是我覺得理監事的監督更重要啦那其實也看得出來目前陸續幾個協會當他財務出狀況的時候你可以看得出來"},{"start":14770.69,"end":14794.252,"text":"會員大會可能開不成理事會會可能開不成那我們就會順勢把這個理事長撤換目前是有這樣的一個做法但是呢不過次長我還是提一下啦因為剛您還說要帶回去再研究本身的想法是說如果說你針對沒有辦法每個月來公開或是說他欠款的方式還款的方式沒有辦法但至少他的收支不是以年為單位"},{"start":14795.413,"end":14819.845,"text":"而是能夠每一季的理事會對 每一季那每一季完之後是不是能夠有公告讓不管是全民周知或是說我們有更好的一個監督機制這個部分是不是能夠帶回去研究這個技術層面我來研究謝謝那最後 朝偉不好意思再講一個部分本席一直很關心因為本來這一題是想要請教部長因為運動部成立的時候就有一個但書我們那時候附帶決議就講了國家運動體育館國家運動博物館的成立"},{"start":14824.767,"end":14853.568,"text":"那目前有沒有在籌備我們已經編列了預算來在明年1月1號開始委託謝思淵教授他也是博物館方面很有專長的由他來進行可行性評估所以算是啟動了OK 算啟動了那所以這個可行性評估預計會在明年年底前因為通常這個計劃案都一年內一年內會確定幾個項目包括說場館的地點在哪邊以及會用什麼樣的形式規模等等的部分"},{"start":14854.088,"end":14873.373,"text":"是不是是那餐館的部分我們連同目前運動部其實也在找一個永久的家是所以一併一起來尋找所以未來有可能聽您這樣講法未來有可能我們會離開現在的朱仁街因為朱仁街確實現在的這個辦公不太符合我們實際的需求是那所以我們有可能會找一個"},{"start":14874.153,"end":14903.282,"text":"地點新蓋運動部大樓並且可能把運動博物館也一起納入未來如果說民眾恰功的時候也可以順便把那個地方當然是運動名我們中華民國所有過去金牌得獎或是歷史的部分都可以在那邊來做一個呈現這個是我們的理想OK好那本席會持續追這個進度那也希望既然要做我們就把它做好因為這畢竟是一個百年千年的一個大計我們一起努力好不好謝謝委員謝謝"},{"start":14905.032,"end":14913.402,"text":"謝謝洪峰改委員請次長回座現在請張綺改委員發言"},{"start":14933.251,"end":14945.527,"text":"謝謝 現在請政事長有請政事長委員好 次長好運動部成立之後大家對這個新的部長李揚"},{"start":14948.652,"end":14966.087,"text":"有滿大的一個期待啦他提出了壯大台灣六大體育政策我先給你看的是最後一項投入兒童跟青少年跟基層的這個培訓我今天要跟討論一個非常具體的個案今年八月"},{"start":14967.932,"end":14996.601,"text":"台北市的東門國小棒球隊得到了威廉·波特世界哨棒錦標賽的冠軍這是我們29年來的第一次最高榮耀可是現在傳出來說專任的教練要離職了你知道現在要怎麼做嗎只有報章雜誌上面看到他服務了在這邊10年薪水都沒加然後他們的考核裡面得到世界哨棒冠軍"},{"start":14998.155,"end":15017.669,"text":"對他聘任跟升遷也都沒有幫助這樣怎麼辦法達成剛剛部長講的要對青少年跟少年的基層加強培訓培訓我們好的國手讓專任的教練可以留下來這你去努力好不好"},{"start":15018.55,"end":15034.255,"text":"包委員了解整個狀況然後看用什麼方式至少要得到這麼辛苦兩個無大問題第一個得到世界冠軍本來就應該列入重要的考核跟聘任嘛第二個賺錢沒輕心所以薪水只有四萬包委員我可不可以解釋個一分鐘就是說他"},{"start":15035.714,"end":15064.186,"text":"理論上一個缺應該是台北市政府要提出來讓他有一個學校專業動力教練缺他這十年來是靠我們體育署給的計畫型教練去資助他這應該是地方政府要負責卻由我們中央來補助所以我們也覺得很無奈所以我們還是呼籲地方的首長應該要針對他們城市裡面的這些優秀的教練要給一個永久的政務官不要只有無奈但是我們有幫忙但是縣市政府才真的要開缺你要跟他共同討論解決問題不然你今天在北京要做什麼"},{"start":15065.086,"end":15091.048,"text":"要不然設這個運動部跟次長在這邊做什麼去解決問題好不好幫他把薪水提高好不好把他得到世界冠軍的這個納入他的聘任裡面重要的參考接下來今天質詢的很多重點都是單項協會次長這個題目對你來講很重要對你來講很重要我高度肯定李洋啊"},{"start":15093.562,"end":15121.216,"text":"前幾天一個獨家新聞他說他致函給44個亞奧運的單項協會他做大幅度的改革有兩個非常重要的他讓現役的運動員去出任裡面的委員讓運動員幫運動員第二個也非常重要所有的會議全程都要錄音錄影而且在協會的網站裡面要公開這兩個都非常非常重要我高度的肯定"},{"start":15122.691,"end":15125.145,"text":"可是我也很擔心他"},{"start":15126.055,"end":15155.355,"text":"一個素人雖然是金牌選手可是素人一定要有人幫忙所以次長你的角色非常重要你跟他都算是對運動員對協會非常了解的人你現在在十字路口你的歷史定位很重要你是要選擇幫你們的部長落實改革留下一個美名你說不幫他的話不幫這個素人你就記憶被罵名你每次在立法院都被罵對不對因為老實講以前你在協會也出了也有一些爭議好不好你要盡力"},{"start":15156.595,"end":15181.409,"text":"去幫你們的部長李揚完成他對戰相協會的這個改革好不好好我來給我簡單講幾個第一個體操協會大家最熟悉的你看他在台灣落地生根以後瑞莎對我們台灣的體力真的是這個體操真的是幫助是很大的培養了非常多的選手可是你看我光是看最近的這個他提出來了連世豐"},{"start":15183.001,"end":15198.553,"text":"他最 我覺得最重要的是他提出非常多的這個建言體操協會都不會理他那現在有運動部成立了都重視各界提出來的意見好不好不是只有他 你看連這個林益信這是非常有名的嘛 對不對"},{"start":15200.908,"end":15214.603,"text":"所以我先提醒第一件事情就是對於來自於現役選手特別是對國家付出很多的人他們建議你們要採信不要當成右邊聽進來 左邊就出去了 好不好好 另外一個是"},{"start":15216.141,"end":15232.949,"text":"最近足球協會出狀況了上禮拜亞洲盃這個資格賽整個那個後勤出狀況你們很就要提一個報告嘛對不對結果隔天竟然16號五人制的這個足球賽代表隊要去沙地阿拉伯連簽證都可以出事"},{"start":15235.114,"end":15251.239,"text":"那剛剛國昌又提了很多財務上面的要徹底去改革好不好好 今天我不要在談你之前你引起爭議的某些案子了因為我認為你現在是在十字路口你現在有機會從以前被罵名的變成一個改革者加油好不好我最後做幾個具體的建議來第一個"},{"start":15255.768,"end":15282.316,"text":"具體去提高專職的教練的待遇還有包括他整個這個績效升遷的制度好不好不只是東門國小這個教練去看一下基層的教練普遍上薪水太低沒有保障這是不公平的報委員這一部分我們跟教育部以及人事總署會來好好討論一下一起加油好不好一定要解決問題另外呢協會這個改革除了你要去幫你們部長落實他這個很重要的公開透明讓現役的"},{"start":15284.877,"end":15302.811,"text":"運動員去幫助運動員之外要建立協會的利益迴避跟監督機制另外建立一個基層運動倫理跟申訴的一個中心讓聲音可以聽得到可以做一些改革還有改革體育協會財務透明度跟補助這個機制最後一個"},{"start":15303.891,"end":15321.346,"text":"最好的一個改革是什麼要去引進外部那個代表的進去而且讓他參與這個決策好不好共同來努力部長我今天執行非常非常有期待我不只對你們新任部長有期待我對你也有期待好不好 努力謝謝委員好 謝謝張祺凱委員提出來對鄭次長的這個期許就請次長回座現在請鄭天才委員質詢"},{"start":15347.878,"end":15374.243,"text":"好 主席有請部長請政次長次長 不好意思委員好好 次長好這個我們台灣中華民國政府過去對原住民的提人才有很多的栽培我舉個重大的例子"},{"start":15376.467,"end":15401.583,"text":"這個洋船館有聽過這個名字吧奧運奧運銀牌選手當初大陸開始要發展體育的時候要邀請他去大陸整個負責大陸的體育的運動的發展當時的中華民國政府然後當時的國民黨"},{"start":15404.355,"end":15433.304,"text":"就請他參選提名他參選立法委員所以他當選過立法委員當然很有名的記政也當過立法委員那我們原住民過去政府也會去栽培教育部過去的省政府的教育廳會去栽培我們過去有不少的"},{"start":15434.522,"end":15461.761,"text":"大學教授體育人才的教授他現在都退休了所以也請這個次長跟部長要去跟這個教育部協調怎麼樣去培植你們也可以先去算一下去瞭解一下到底現在原住民在大專業校當教授的到底有沒有"},{"start":15462.76,"end":15488.3,"text":"也提供数字给我好不好好我们接下来对不起我在明确问一下是什么数字就是说到底有多少的原住民在大学专校包委这是教育部的权责我是说你去了解是我说我有讲这句话去了解去了解去跟他们了解因为这也是这个原住民的"},{"start":15489.843,"end":15516.826,"text":"運動人才有沒有在這個大專研校當教授好 我現在這個議題這個次長你很熟悉是你當署長的時候我特別提到這個運動部的組織法的制定包括首署機關以及行政法人當初我都有提案這提案裡面"},{"start":15518.857,"end":15540.758,"text":"有特別提到就運動部的話當然是公務人員公務人員的部分必須要能夠禁用原住民的一定的比例包括行政法人 包括業聘僱人員當初在審查的時候後來朝野協商的時候"},{"start":15542.301,"end":15567.486,"text":"就是以附帶決議來去在立法院通過所以這裡面就包含了原住民特考的部分原住民特考人事行政總署他都會發行給各部會提供職切所以你們到時候要記得去提供職切包委已經進行當中也已經有做了好 謝謝"},{"start":15569.933,"end":15598.442,"text":"另外就是行政法人的部分这个也是要去禁用因为这个不需要公务人员任用资格另外就是业聘雇人员所以希望这个运动部这边能够积极的落实很重要的到了运动部或者是你的首属机关或者是你的行政法人就可以鼓励他们去念授试班博士班啊"},{"start":15599.366,"end":15627.632,"text":"對不對 這個都是一個很好的一個發展包委員他們去同仁們要去念書我們都非常支持對對對所以你要先讓他禁用才有機會鼓勵他們好不好可以嗎 部長 次長這邊我們還在努力好 謝謝也請這個運動部的同仁們協助謝謝謝謝委員謝謝鄭天才委員請次長回座現在請林楚英委員發言"},{"start":15629.448,"end":15636.57,"text":"林楚英委員不在 請林德福委員發言林德福委員不在 請林倩琦委員質詢"},{"start":15658.496,"end":15662.564,"text":"好 謝謝我們主席劉朝偉我先請我們鄭次長鄭次長請"},{"start":15669.98,"end":15697.561,"text":"市長您好我先呼應一下剛才那個曾天才委員他在想說請你們了解一下運動現在在國內的大學這個原住民的一個比例我想他最主要的意思也是希望就是說你們了解這樣一個比例在運動的推動上可能又比較會有一些支撐然後在原住民的一個運動發展上也會相對的更為更有效率我想這是他的意思那接下來本席就針對"},{"start":15699.402,"end":15728.462,"text":"这个水域运动的还有海域运动的这个部分来跟您这边做一个请教那我关心的是两个方向就运动部成立之后那接下来的这个亚奥运水域或海域项目的一个备战的情形那第二个部分是如何将水域海域的运动从少数选手的项目拓展为普及化的一个全民运动那兼顾竞技成绩跟大众的参与那这个是我想运动部很重要的一个任务"},{"start":15729.322,"end":15745.708,"text":"全民參與是本席一直非常重視的所以首先在選手備戰的這個層面我們都知道我們的海洋環境湖泊 河川常常都是我們引以為傲的但是我們在水域跟海域運動的這個項目裡面我們其實是還有很大一段路可以去追"},{"start":15746.568,"end":15771.662,"text":"所以目前運動部統整建置要擬建置的一些大型水域運動場地的一個量能可不可以就你們目前推動的水域海域運動的類型跟本席說明場館的量能建設的計畫跟進度還有預計啟用的時間回應的時候就精簡如果有比較細節的內容你會後再提供給本席"},{"start":15772.242,"end":15789.659,"text":"那第二個部分是在技術選手培訓上那麼運動部是不是有跟各縣市政府學校社區俱樂部合作來推出水海運動的新興項目那目前有沒有培訓的梯隊教練的這個隊伍還有設備補助跟社區場地補助的一些規劃"},{"start":15790.86,"end":15816.91,"text":"那如果有的話會後詳細的細節麻煩給本席那第三個部分是如何將這些備戰的項目跟全民的參與做個連結我們知道運動部還有亞奧運項目其實很重要就是說我們有機會得獎或有機會參與它其實是可以帶動全民的一個參與那你們如何來推動社區型的一個水域運動的據點你們有哪一些策略那目前有沒有哪一些縣市獲得一些補助"},{"start":15817.39,"end":15837.42,"text":"還有場地的類型是如何各位精簡的做一個回應 謝謝幫委員 我想在前瞻計畫有16處包括像澎湖的帆船訓練基地還有我在任內的時候補助安隆溪的人工激流賽道2億這部分都是我們在對水域的支持那現在我們在貢獻計畫的擴充海域的這個部分應該是目前也是比較"},{"start":15838.32,"end":15854.436,"text":"麻煩的一件事情對不對我們現在在公建計畫的擴充方面我們有提出在這個草案我們現在在跟部裡面討論完之後我們就會送行政院來做一個經費上的爭取本席這邊也提醒一下就是海域的設施這個部分那也還有本島本島海域的這個運動的一個發展"},{"start":15857.379,"end":15884.889,"text":"可能部裡面也是要更積極的來做一些作為好不好包委我們大概已經盤點出17個據點可以來做推動最後可以提供給本席看你們目前據點一個選擇跟推動的方向這個方向但是經費我們還在爭取當中至於第二題跟第三題我是不是請署長這邊來回應好嗎因為時間關係我先往下然後待會署長再一併回應好不好簡單的講就是已經在進行當中我們1月1號開始您第二跟第三題我們已經在規劃了"},{"start":15886.397,"end":15906.454,"text":"那但是相關的細節會後要提供給本席喔 可以嗎好 還有另外你們有除了菁英選手的一個參與以外呢那全民的參與本席這邊也要為大家來請命啦那你們是不是有規劃跟訂定一些補助辦法可以降低大眾進入的門檻講直白一點"},{"start":15906.874,"end":15935.791,"text":"就是器具型的這個東西你們如何透過一些組織平台能夠讓這個部分的設施設備更為普及讓大家都有機會來參與因為本席在參與的過程當中我覺得光是這個器具的門檻其實是很大的一個阻礙那第二個部分是還有在解決海岸湖泊區域場地資源不均或相關的設備落後的這個部分你們如何來規劃提升水域的設施"},{"start":15937.512,"end":15965.51,"text":"這個不管是你們或者是相關的這個單位我覺得你們應該更積極來處理那如果細節不是很清楚的部分我當然會後願意再提供相關的資訊給部裡面那另外水域安全的這個風險氣候海況的這個變化因素運動部你們是不是可以主動的來跟交通部來會商那就水域海域修正現行的法規並建立相關的一個指引"},{"start":15965.97,"end":15980.729,"text":"然後讓開放水域的運動能夠更為普遍要不然我們都常常卡在一些法規上或者是一些其實不是本體重要的一些障礙上那反倒阻礙了這個運動的發展"},{"start":15983.573,"end":16003.892,"text":"報告委員您講的方向都是現在全民運輸在想要規劃的方向我是不是建議您可以邀請署長找個時間去拜會您在您的辦公室聊一下有啦 那個署長也很積極都有給我們一些相關的訊息那對於本席這邊提出來他也很努力在推動那當然本席也會給一些意見啦那署長我是不是您就簡單回應目前的一個進度好不好"},{"start":16005.411,"end":16033.994,"text":"謝謝委員這邊特別關心海域跟水域的我們首先還是會先建立一個跨部會的一個平台然後板點的部分目前同步在進行當中然後有一些專業人才或者是海洋運動地圖的部分我們現在也正在要納入明年15年度我們要趕快來處理的一個方向然後有一個海洋運動的體驗這部分我們之後還是會結合我們明年初會跟縣市政府這邊來合作要建立海洋運動中心這樣子的一個概念"},{"start":16034.634,"end":16055.108,"text":"之後有些相關的資本門的經費可以進去改善環境或是買一些相關的器材這部分來協助推動另外海洋的一些安全教育或者是之後有些運動觀光這樣的一個可能性我們這邊會研擬一個很完整的實施計畫草案的部分在討論的過程當中在這個過程我這邊再隨時跟委員這邊來做一個報告"},{"start":16058.311,"end":16081.142,"text":"好的 謝謝署長很高興聽到這個海洋運動地圖其實是可以做一個未來整備的一個指引至少有這個部分在本島的海洋運動的一個發展包括離島現在已有的其實台灣應該是非常具有這方面的一個潛力我們期待在不久的將來我們的海水域運動可以成為台灣在發展亞奧運跟全民的一個主軸好 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝林倩琪委員次長請回座"},{"start":16088.403,"end":16109.585,"text":"現在請林思明委員質詢林思明委員林思明委員不在現在請李彥秀委員質詢李彥秀委員李彥秀委員不在現在請鍾嘉斌委員質詢"},{"start":16114.982,"end":16119.865,"text":"好 休息一下休息三分鐘"},{"start":16141.285,"end":16145.986,"text":"感謝感謝來了來了大家好跟大家斥展"},{"start":16325.046,"end":16326.867,"text":"好 我們繼續會議請鍾嘉賓委員質詢好忙喔"},{"start":16358.498,"end":16378.324,"text":"謝謝主席的包容那現在有請我們運動部政次長好 請政次長委員好次長好我們要兼顧職業運動跟全民的健康那怎麼樣去讓非都會地區的產業有一個共享的基地來請教一下部長 次長你知道過去台灣的運動中心總共65間哪裡比較多"},{"start":16381.478,"end":16392.172,"text":"六都比較多 非都的部分很少 都是個位數對不對那這樣資源分佈公平嗎 什麼原因呢為什麼都會在都會地區 運動中心在那裡呢 往下看為什麼"},{"start":16396.008,"end":16424.186,"text":"來 我覺得你不要為難其實我也很清楚 你看那麼多的運動中心大半三分之二在都會地區都會地區還有那些倭俊那些什麼因為都會地區的人上班族時間少 工作忙碌那他只能在有限的空間用很短的時間去滿足他運動的需求所以我們的目前在全國各地的運動中心大概是鎖定這樣的運動人口對不對那非都會地區我們空間廣闊而且我們的人口一半很多都是退休的人他也不太需要"},{"start":16425.066,"end":16450.226,"text":"用特定的下班後的時間所以什麼地方都可以運動是不是這樣子社長是不是這樣包委我們會希望非都會區蓋小型但不是都不要OK我了解我猜想你會這樣回答但是我們來思考一下到底非都會地區下一頁我們這樣怎麼評估非都會地區運動場館的需求其實相對非都會地區場地大有些項目譬如說職業運動來講棒球是不是應該在都會地區"},{"start":16454.164,"end":16472.774,"text":"棒球場應該在都會地區嘛因為它有大量的觀眾嘛那足球場會不會要在都會去不會嘛因為足球在台灣不是觀賞運動它是我們培養選手比賽的地方嘛所以目前運動部在這些場館的規劃會根據運動項目它的市場的區隔去做適當的配置對不對"},{"start":16474.192,"end":16502.105,"text":"八五園這個是雞生蛋蛋生雞的問題沒有錯我可以接受說我們不需要每一個縣市什麼館都有譬如說屏東我們想爭取一個棒球場有了那我們可能覺得足球場在屏東比較適合因為人才在我們那裡外地來的比賽到我們那裡所以我們希望運動部持續支持類似這樣的一個運動賽事的場館分佈在區隔在不同的地區不是大家都有是不是這樣"},{"start":16502.765,"end":16517.45,"text":"OK 那我們往下看好 所以你來看一下你知道這個球場這是什麼這個球隊很有名看衣服的顏色中信兄弟我們從小就是看著這個黃色的棒球制服你覺得這個球場在哪裡"},{"start":16523.181,"end":16541.357,"text":"它是在屏東延浦 它是中信特別設了一個春訓基地你覺得我們職棒是不是需要這樣的一個春訓基地為什麼設在屏東 因為屏東溫暖我們在北迴縣以南 你知道嗎 在屏東設春訓基地的還有哪些地方嗎 還有東訓的"},{"start":16542.972,"end":16556.638,"text":"有韓國跟日本的職棒都跑來屏東設東訓基地所以其實運動產業在台灣不是只有觀賞人口不是只有運動人口還有產業的需求對不對請問一下我們國訓中心在嗎職業運動員 頂尖運動員最怕什麼國訓中心知道嗎"},{"start":16562.441,"end":16581.95,"text":"職業運動員頂尖運動員最怕受傷受傷之後要怎樣要復健要復健是不是要這樣子你看美國的美式足球他們每次比賽完趕快就怎樣需要用冰敷水療然後他們需要運動防護員需要一些專業的服務對不對好 除了職業運動員頂尖運動員之外哪些人經常去復健我告訴你在我們政科超過65歲常常去復健"},{"start":16588.089,"end":16616.655,"text":"一天到晚我們那個復健診所排了一堆人紅外線超音波市長你有沒有做過我是物理治療師所以我知道所以你知道嗎所以你知道所以你有沒有發現這些運動治療好像媒合了兩種人口一種是頂尖的職業的運動人口一種是什麼退休的養生的人口所以呢我們往下看所以你看看像民間的一般坊間的復健中心診所有沒有可能設水療的水療池"},{"start":16617.54,"end":16635.024,"text":"有沒有可能有啊很少啦你看過哪些診所有設水療池的你看看渥郡有沒有設溫水用池可能你的水療池是大型的對我講的是小的可以走路的那沒有那有沒有看過那個渥郡有設溫水用池很少"},{"start":16635.504,"end":16659.712,"text":"因為民間的投資首先它的規模的限制場地的限制它有些項目不會做但是如果在我們非都的地區你設個水療池不只是頂尖職業運動員可以用他們來這邊訓練復健可以用連鄉間的這些長輩高齡人口也可以用而且你看看高雄屏東地區是不是這麼多科系你說你是物理治療師是不是這樣"},{"start":16660.972,"end":16667.798,"text":"這些的人才資源相當的豐富所以說我們往下給市場建議我們來弄一些共享式的運動產業設施基地"},{"start":16670.356,"end":16692.011,"text":"屏東可以作為日韓職業運動團隊職業棒球隊的東訓基地我們在這裡也可以設置這些具有滿足休閒復健保健這樣的一個場館而且這樣場館它能夠自己維持你覺得屏東還需要一座運動中心嗎屏東現在有一座你覺得有沒有第二座的空間"},{"start":16693.567,"end":16712.072,"text":"不確定,我跟你講我是比較保守,我常常去的那家唯一的一家常常換人,為什麼常常換人經營?因為付錢的、付費的人口比較少,所以說我最後一頁,所以運動部是否支持在都會地區打造這種共享式的運動產業設施基地?"},{"start":16714.434,"end":16735.192,"text":"原則上我們是覺得這個想法很不錯最後來給你看一下這個就是一個未來很下一頁最後一頁你看看在我們非都會地區我們可以弄一個這樣的運動場館但是不需要是跟都會的運動中心一樣因為沒有那麼多的上班族來使用但是它的設施如果夠好"},{"start":16736.013,"end":16751.119,"text":"他可以分別照顧高齡者跟職業運動員的需求在這裡面如果有復健水療這些設施其實這樣的設施可以由附近的大學來支援他的人才也可以提供當地的相關機構來對外營運所以最後的結論請運動部來評估共享式運動產業設施來考量在台灣的分布好不好可不可以"},{"start":16763.069,"end":16771.746,"text":"報告委員這個部分通常我們是由縣市政府來提但是你們要有一個綱領啊縣政府才知道有一個遊戲櫃才能提啊還是你就是說我們屏東趕快來提"},{"start":16773.787,"end":16794.526,"text":"我也可以馬上提啊對 但是我們目前沒有這方面的經費所以我才說我知道沒有運動中心的經費了因為運動中心的計畫已經執行完畢了所以我說不是在一個新的運動中心我們去思考台灣運動產業的發展它應該針對可以結合商業的具有商業回收率的"},{"start":16795.787,"end":16809.054,"text":"自償性的設施包委我們在規劃運動部的時候在產業科技師我們就有提到輔導縣市政府運動產業聚落這件事情產業什麼師產業科技師我們針對各縣市他就提出一些運動產業聚落運動產業園區這樣的概念我們的確是有想要去輔導有嗎 產業科技是在嗎"},{"start":16819.056,"end":16842.189,"text":"好那這樣好我知道了我們認得我們很熟那我就直接跳過次長直接來詢問好不好那請次長指示要支持向非都地區發展運動產業怎麼樣配合運動部的規劃我們來提出符合地方需求用能滿足我們全國運動產業發展的這些設施共享基地可以嗎可以包委員給我們三個月時間好不好可以可以三個月我很寬容的三個月有就好謝謝"},{"start":16845.194,"end":16870.9,"text":"好 謝謝鍾嘉賓委員質詢那次長請回座我們現在進行羅明財委員的質詢羅明財委員羅明財委員不在請顏匡衡委員質詢顏匡衡委員顏匡衡委員不在蘇清泉委員質詢蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在"},{"start":16871.92,"end":16872.981,"text":"請盧憲一委員質詢有請次長請鄭次長"},{"start":16890.751,"end":16909.037,"text":"我也好市长好那我今天有关原住民的问题来纠缠大概就是我们看到了我们115年的税出计划提要运动部的预算是214亿元其中国家运动推展工作计划培育原住民族学生运动人才的委办费"},{"start":16909.557,"end":16936.277,"text":"只有1400万元占整体不到就是0.32%就算把地方补助与运动发展基金整体算进来原住民的相关的运动人才培育教练聘用的经费大概是2.28亿元也就是占了所有的经费里面的大概1%左右所以说我想请问次长这样的一个预算估比占比你认为对原住民人才的产权培育是否足够"},{"start":16937.352,"end":16960.809,"text":"包委員這部分其實牽涉到蠻多的私塾所以他可能在呈現方面不見得就專屬原住民但是原住民的選手或是民眾或一些組織都是可以一起來申請的所以這部分我沒有辦法完全明確回答我們看到這個占比確實是低的然後我看到一些項目還集中在壘球或者是棒球"},{"start":16961.249,"end":16983.968,"text":"那我觉得说就像田径啊全体几重射箭这些就没有办法长期的但是这些运动种类里面很多原住民他们在分散的各个学校其实我们都还是有补助啊就刚才的一个大概占比例0.32%我希望能够看看有没有一个你们的规划或者说作为年度的一个绩效指标能够进步到0.5%或者是1%左右"},{"start":16985.1,"end":17005.799,"text":"可以吗这个我们来努力那就是我们现在看到我们原住民传统的运动已经在推展不过我看到你们的计划里面学校就针对这一个项目是最高只有四万块的一个补助你认为就对支撑文化一个传承或者说去聘请这样的一个师资四万元够吗"},{"start":17007.421,"end":17036.551,"text":"包委員坦白講我們希望縣市政府在這一塊能夠主動的參與那我們是來協助但應該不算是中央要全部來支持所以這部分我們是協助對 我希望說你們可以跟文化部或者園民會一起來跨部的整合推出一些專項的推展計畫你看那麼多的項目然後你說從師資從它的競賽規則這些都需要人力去弄這個我們會來努力"},{"start":17037.131,"end":17046.224,"text":"好 那我希望運動部有一個扶植原住民族傳統運動的一個具體指標可以嗎這個我們請全民族來努力OK"},{"start":17046.724,"end":17075.883,"text":"那最后有一个问题就是我在上个前一阵子说到我们屏东县的一个选手的一个家长的陈情那为什么会到到中央来这边来陈情你就知道说可能在地方的接受这些陈情的这个窗口真的是没有所以这个公平性当然就是就很值得去商榷那我们后来也有请我们屏东县的县政府的教育处来跟我们一起开会然后那其实其中最"},{"start":17076.864,"end":17104.936,"text":"最令人觉得困扰的就是说你这个真儿选拔这个标准能不能定定全国性的统一因为他会认为说这个是教练的一个职责在可是学生他明明就是第二名可是真正去比赛的是第三名这样的一个候补跟真儿的这样一个产生这样的一个问题的时候我觉得公平性就应该要站出来而不是把推给教练推给地方我觉得中央应该实质上有一个力量去去"},{"start":17106.229,"end":17125.752,"text":"辅导就是说去让县市政府说在你提供这些名额的时候要让家长跟学生觉得这个国家的比赛是公平的而不是用他们所谓的他比较有潜力或是比较主观的这些字眼让选手深受打击"},{"start":17127.823,"end":17156.406,"text":"報告委員 這個真的是在地方執行的狀況那我們來詢問一下屏東的體育發展中心看到底是發生什麼事情我們來看怎麼協助他們好不好請問選手的公平性來再發聲因為我覺得這個部分如果中央沒有去訂定同一個標準的話這些事情會一而再而上發生報告委員 因為每個縣市其實他們有不同的狀況但是我們先來了解屏東的狀況好了好不好我們先來協助他們"},{"start":17156.826,"end":17171.772,"text":"好 謝謝市長好 謝謝委員好 謝謝盧憲英委員市長請回座現在請徐欣盈委員質詢徐欣盈委員徐欣盈委員不在"},{"start":17175.011,"end":17190.421,"text":"那今天就现在进行到委员的质询就是告一个段落我们现在处理我们现在就是委员的质询都已经发言完毕另外有高金素梅林楚英委员提出书面质询"},{"start":17192.881,"end":17215.8,"text":"中嘉賓委員還是有提出書面質詢那今天的會議我們做如下的決定報告及詢答完畢了委員所提供的書面質詢跟相關資料列入記錄並刊登公報對於委員質詢要求提供的相關資料或未及答覆部分請相關就是請運動部相關機關緊迫的以書面來答覆"},{"start":17221.857,"end":17230.5,"text":"好 那報告委員會 我們今天的議程就處理完畢現在休息 謝謝各位各位官員辛苦了 但委員會的議員辛苦了謝謝辛苦組長辛苦了 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}