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各位早我想請教各位犯罪被害人權益保障法在2023年2月8號金總統公布了然後2023年全文施行現在是三週年那我想請教各位我先請教馮次長您對於這條法案的實施您滿意嗎"},{"start":48.744,"end":70.491,"text":"我們本部會全力的保護我們的犯罪被害人的一個權益目前你滿意已經三週年了你們也慶祝過了我們非常的努力做跟委員報告我們不是慶祝我們是其實是把我們各項的一個成果就是做一個我們的一個審視那我們其實在我們的犯罪被害人保護之中我們推動的一路相伴這一部分其實我們發揮了很大的一個成效"},{"start":71.351,"end":96.173,"text":"市長謝謝您 您就說您在做但是您大概沒辦法回答我 您自己滿意嗎大概您心中自己會有一個答案啦我的答案我當然是滿意的那就是副秘書長 李副秘書長請問同樣的問題 您對這個施行滿意嗎這個我們司法院是完全配合相關 犯保法相關的施行來治癒那您自己覺得施行 您參與的部分滿意嗎"},{"start":97.722,"end":102.087,"text":"那請問法輔基金會莊董事長您對於這部法案的這個施行三週年您滿意嗎"},{"start":113.641,"end":141.419,"text":"以法服的立場來講話的話我們是依法去執行嘛那如果說沒有一個制度呢能夠說叫做百分之百的完美了我們其實我們的國家呢已經在這一個方面被害人的保護方面我們也已經盡全力莊主席你們在努力但是你也不敢說你是有相當程度的滿意好那再來是飯堡協會陳執行長您對於這個法案的施行您滿意嗎"},{"start":142.858,"end":167.451,"text":"謝謝委員 如果我們真的一個人悲憾的立場的話我們真的很感謝有這個機會來親自走進法庭來參與這個審理的過程那也可以讓他們為自己或者是為他失去家人來爭取一個公平正義的發展因為剛剛您報告當然不只您 報告對我來說是還蠻冷冰冰的文字跟數字但是等一下我會給一些活生生的例子所以您滿意嗎"},{"start":170.034,"end":178.65,"text":"你很有代表性我們努力中大家都努力中那謝謝 那我就請這個司法院副秘書長跟法務部次長留步 其他人先請回 謝謝"},{"start":181.257,"end":202.36,"text":"那次長那個財政法院犯罪被害人保護協會在7月1號的時候跟台灣高等署 高等檢察署共同舉辦了一個記者會這個名稱很長喔守護升級服務深化新犯保法實行三周年從制度建構邁向溫暖的一路相伴然後鄭部長在記者會上表示這一段話是"},{"start":203.021,"end":229.201,"text":"看起來是非常的溫馨感人新犯保法實行三年不只是法條修正更是台灣司法保護裡面的重要轉變法律能夠建立制度劃出保護邊界但真正讓犯罪被害人感受到被接觸的是制度背後每一位陪伴者的同理跟關懷法務部三年來持續督導各機關落實新法規定精進犯罪被害者補償制度深化修復式的司法跟案件不漏接的機制並結合犯保協會及各位各界的"},{"start":229.761,"end":250.067,"text":"支援強化司法程序的陪伴生活的重建心理支持服務那這段話老實說聽起來都是肺腑感人那我請問次長您真的認為部長所說的犯罪被害補償制度修復是司法案件不漏接等對這個犯罪被害人的包括他的保護還有訴訟上山的參與您覺得都做到了嗎"},{"start":254.244,"end":281.357,"text":"跟委員說其實我們有一個目標有一個願景就是剛剛部長提的就是我們希望達到的方向那在這件事情上我們的所有的犯罪被害保護的協會以及我們所有的這個相關從事的人員都盡了最大的力量在做這件事情那委員也可能可以參考一下說我們在飯堡的一個相關的一個活動其實事實上真的幫助了非常多的犯罪被害人也對於我們國家的犯罪被害人的家屬"},{"start":282.137,"end":297.392,"text":"謝謝次長回答等一下我用實例來跟您討論那我認為三周年開的記者會也不為過啦但是你們當然如果說不認為是慶祝那就紀念吧但是除了就是說手拿標語拍拍照這樣等等我覺得法務部更該做的是"},{"start":298.032,"end":316.251,"text":"反省跟檢討看看哪裡要做得更好執行的情況如何不是說時間到了那我們就來辦個紀念或是辦個所謂慶祝那我為什麼要說這麼嚴厲的話因為我是從一個傷心的案子一個破碎的家庭一對痛苦的父母身上"},{"start":318.092,"end":342.56,"text":"體會出這個制度跟法律其實是嚴重的不足副秘書長跟次長兩位震驚全台的新北國中國中生割喉案今年二月判決定宴乾哥乾妹兩位少年兄子分別被判了12年跟11年的徒刑當天這位被殺死的楊姓國中的父親我們都叫他楊爸爸因為你們規定他不准洩露 被害人但是後來他自己次長把他兒子名字講出來"},{"start":343.28,"end":349.451,"text":"他列了18項聲明啊媒體都有報導我先請教副秘書長跟次長你有看過嗎他的18項聲明你們讀了嗎"},{"start":353.035,"end":377.606,"text":"沒有嘛 沒有讀嘛這個副秘書長 這個次長你們都應該回去好好讀可以嗎看一下嘛這個這麼這個被害人驚天動地整個國家都在矚目的這個案子他講了18點因為裡面的每一項聲明都跟犯罪被害人你們剛剛一直在提到的強調保護還有被害人的這個家屬如果因為被害人已經過世的話那他的訴訟參與上的這個都是息息相關的"},{"start":381.408,"end":408.226,"text":"那時間有限我先把這個判決定義那天楊爸爸所發的聲明中的幾點比較重要的幾點拿出來就教兩位首先楊爸爸在第五點提到他在一審的時候向法官提問為什麼讓加害者的證人在走廊上看到秘密證人呢結果一審的流行法官跟楊爸爸說那是警察認定的秘密證人法律說他不在這個秘密證人的保護裡面後來啊更加讓這個加害者"},{"start":409.887,"end":435.389,"text":"他們當庭對質沒有任何保護請問副秘書長跟次長在證人保護法裡面第四條這個法條也蠻長的證人或與其有密切利害關係之人因為證人到場作證就算身體自由或財產有遭受危害之處而有受保護之必要者法院與審理中或檢察官與偵查中得依職權或依證人被害人或其代理人被告或其辯護人被移送人或選證"},{"start":437.05,"end":459.769,"text":"復師輔佐人司法警察官 案送一件機關自訴案件 自訴人士申請核發證人保護書 但時間急迫來不及發的 也得以先採取必要的保護措施條文都寫成這麼清楚的 為什麼會有出現法官說那個是警察說的這個秘密證人不是法律上所保護的秘密證人呢 請秘書長 副秘書長來回答"},{"start":462.556,"end":483.047,"text":"委員好 這個是令人傷心的案子的確我們法院在這個少年案件審理的時候讓被害人在以正的身份出庭的時候沒有做好相當隔離措施那一次沒有做好嘛 那我再問下一句我要跟委員報告的 事實上我們在在今年的2月2號我們曾經邵家庭有發一個函"},{"start":484.688,"end":498.072,"text":"各法院的少年法庭在審理相關的案件的時候我們會有發一些相關的權利通知書請他證人或是被害人他有這樣的需求我還有下一個問題就是說可以讓加害者在法庭上當庭對質嗎"},{"start":501.633,"end":510.979,"text":"這個對資的部分呢 那個就是訴訟審理的需要但是他剛剛有跟委員報告過可以透過單面鏡的方式或其他隔離所以我們也曾經有發個函請各法院在相關的證人在做 楊爸爸怎麼說呢那個加害人少年就跟他說我出來後我會找你 我將來會找你報復所以楊爸爸已經心裡有數了他說等這個少年出來以後他大概認知自己大概就沒命了"},{"start":528.371,"end":540.374,"text":"所以剛剛有跟委員報告說這部分我們是的確是要做一些相當的檢討跟改進然後我們有發函請各法院來做一些保護措施為什麼檢查機關會這麼隨便認定一個人是不是秘密證人呢請次長回答這麼隨便認定嗎警察官然後他說不是嗎跟委員講我們不會隨便認定我們的認定的這個秘密證人都是"},{"start":550.916,"end":569.456,"text":"你要保護也要從寬嘛你要得到取得完整的資訊嘛跟委員保...警察說是 法官說不是跟委員說 其實在這件事情上剛剛我們已經提...我們的副秘長也提到了就是說這是一個...林大理你提到這是一件令人遺憾的事情但是 針對這件事情檢察機關在犯罪被害保護"},{"start":569.616,"end":589.113,"text":"他那麼認真的 楊爸爸提出了18點聲明你們都沒看我跟委員報告不是不看因為事實上來講我們的飯堡的協會的同仁全部都一路相伴從開記者會 從各項訴訟輔助全部都在旁邊陪伴事實上在家屬部分對我們檢方的這個犯罪被害保護也是都是給予肯定的你同意他們當面對質嗎跟誰對質"},{"start":594.485,"end":615.714,"text":"就是這個受保護的證人跟加害者我們沒有對詞這個制度啊 跟被告 也是加害者被告可以當面對詞 我們的所有的犯罪被害保護的同仁都是及時而且時時刻刻的關懷沒有您所謂的那種說我們好像是說今天對他都沒有...請你把楊爸爸的這個聲明 痛心的聲明好好讀字我們的同仁都有看過 委員我們都有針對我們的這個聲明之中"},{"start":618.435,"end":623.839,"text":"然後我們仔細的研究事實上來講就是說您提到的這個部分上我們不但做了法律的輔助我們還經濟上我們也都已經完成了那個我們113年的6月那你可以讓牙爸爸跟你見面嗎?你們好好討論最近司法院副秘書長我在請教他公佈上一線處理法草案裡面有一部分倒是回應了"},{"start":639.71,"end":652.71,"text":"養爸爸跟廣大社會的一個民眾的要求但很多細節我還是不滿意的不過那是另外一個法律要處理我們回到被害人保護這個議題請吳秘書長現行的少年事件處理法是否在被害人注重參與有嚴重的不足"},{"start":653.819,"end":674.825,"text":"這部分跟委員報告一下這有關於少年事件條約65條相關的條文修正我們已經提出去了讓少年在少年案件在少年刑事案件原先是不可以參與訴訟的那現在我們在開放一些比較因故意所以才要檢討嘛對對對我們這部分的草案已經提出去了"},{"start":675.225,"end":690.275,"text":"楊爸爸提出了這部分我們做事都不能回應現在把那個我們去出院會現在在行政院會選之中我想應該很快就會送到大院來這邊做生意楊爸爸他現在口罩拿掉了他的兒子名字直接講你們要找他也可以找他因為本來是不能公告這個當事人"},{"start":691.516,"end":696.84,"text":"他多次對社會傳,他在新北國中村割核案當中對這兩位兇手的假釋量刑他都沒有機會,都沒辦法重複陳述意見整個審判過程幾乎都聚焦在加害人的背景跟教化的可能對於家屬的傷痛,法官在判決書中完全沒有看見,沒有考量這個所謂修復式的司法的目的在這起少年殺人事件當中,施理過程還未落實他告訴我們"},{"start":716.893,"end":720.017,"text":"這整個判決書當中全部幾乎都著眼於怎麼樣讓這個少年保護這個少年但是被害的部分幾乎沒有著墨那我想請問為什麼會出現這樣的狀況請這個副秘書長回答是"},{"start":730.978,"end":735.781,"text":"這個部分委員所提到的這個問題事實上我們也注意到了所以我們現在修法方向這在怎樣保全少年健全自我成長的這個少事法的目的之下做一些跟被害人的相關權益的提升跟調整這部分我們已經注意到了你們已經改了但是就是很遺憾就是發生這麼重大的這個慘痛事件以後"},{"start":752.471,"end":766.394,"text":"所以說新的少事件有針對少年事件被害人進行補強啦那過去的重點全部放在少年身上嘛所以很多被害人他只知道說自己家人受害但就不知道案子怎麼進行或是說法案怎麼處理或是讓他們律師越卷對事情完全不清楚他就會誤解嘛他就會做不好的想像嘛就請問鳳姆先生你同意我這段話嗎"},{"start":777.297,"end":785.525,"text":"事實上在邵氏法36條之一他已經有包括訴訟告知這部分已經有了那也許在相關的訴訟權利的支息他的感覺是這樣就是說我剛剛講這句話你同意嗎因為如果你不讓他參與"},{"start":792.272,"end":807.117,"text":"他會有不好的想像不對的聯想或誤會所以在訴訟程序一定要讓他透明讓他雙方我同意你同意我這段話嗎你同意我這段陳述嗎好謝謝你同意我看這是少年法官少年法庭法官蔡坤胡法官在面對媒體說的還不是我說的"},{"start":810.663,"end":834.135,"text":"就是副秘書長跟次長 質詢十一有限如果我只能用我對犯罪被害人保護的粗淺知識向你們請教因為你們才是專家 法律必須活用 若實在每個人身上所以這個新版的犯罪被害人保障法滿三週年 法務部該做的不是記者會就是說我們做三週年 而是說好好去檢討剛剛你們的數字等等 其實我們要看的是說"},{"start":834.795,"end":853.48,"text":"包括被害者家屬他們是不是覺得他們也有得到他們應有的保護或應有的訴訟參與這些過去不足的地方那司法院的部分應該要把沒有落實犯罪被害人及其家屬保障的審理程序的漏洞趕快補起來"},{"start":854.68,"end":878.917,"text":"趕快補起來你們回去再看一下楊爸爸的那些聲明你對少年的保障絕對不能是侵犯犯罪被害人的權利或是侵犯被害犯罪人的訴訟參與的理由啦它不是理由你不是為了保護這少年就會侵害這個被害被害人被害家屬這一次沒有被害人因為被害人過世只有被害人家屬你不能侵犯他們的這個他們訴訟參與還有他們的保護"},{"start":883.418,"end":902.554,"text":"請兩位兩位首長是不是就這個部分就是再好好的回去做檢討跟反省兩個都沒有都不講話啦謝謝委員長這部分我們正在進行中因為我們跟楊爸爸見面太多次了太多的訴求太多的事實上就是說針對給我一點時間因為針對這個新北的這一件案件裡面從一開端"},{"start":907.202,"end":928.878,"text":"我們想我們的犯罪被判保護人協會就已經協助去進行調查如果委員可以的話也可以問問楊爸爸其實我們的相關的同仁真的做了很大的一個努力然後相關的一個經濟上的法律上都有做協助那所以說委員我們今天的這個同仁我相信你們願意盡力 知道這樣的案子以後我們一定會盡全力但是他在判決定業那一天他寫了18項聲明"},{"start":930.399,"end":941.469,"text":"我還是希望兩位首長他裡面就是說有針對少年的部分剛剛我們那個副廳長都已經有提到了會針對訴訟上的制度再做一個調整那這個部分上我們會盡全力去做的謝謝委員好 謝謝兩位首長 謝謝主席"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:19:36+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T09:19:45.219000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:19:45.219000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T09:19:54.438000+08:00","text":"有請司法院李副秘書長、法務部馮次長、法扶基金會莊董事長、犯保協會陳執行長，有4個單位，謝謝。","quality":0.154},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-06T09:19:54.438000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T09:20:03.657000+08:00","text":"請幾位長官都可以到前面來列席。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:20:03.657000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:20:03.937000+08:00","text":"各位早。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:20:04.438000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:20:14.301000+08:00","text":"我想請教各位，犯罪被害人權益保障法在2023年2月8日經總統公布了，到2024年全文施行，現在是3週年。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:20:16.922000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:20:18.182000+08:00","text":"我先請教馮次長，您對於這部法案的實施，您滿意嗎？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-07-06T09:20:25.264000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:20:28.645000+08:00","text":"本部會全力保護我們犯罪被害人的權益……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:20:28.905000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:20:29.626000+08:00","text":"已經3週年了，目前你滿意……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-07-06T09:20:29.626000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T09:20:31.246000+08:00","text":"我們非常努力在做……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:20:31.246000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:20:32.186000+08:00","text":"你們也慶祝過了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-07-06T09:20:33.607000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:20:46.471000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們不是慶祝，我們其實是把我們各項成果來做審視，我們在犯罪被害人保護之中推動「一路相伴」，這部分發揮了很大的成效。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:20:47.492000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:20:47.492000+08:00","text":"次長，謝謝您。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:20:47.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:20:52.736000+08:00","text":"您說您在做，但是您大概沒辦法回答我「您自己滿意嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:20:52.736000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:20:55.118000+08:00","text":"」，您自己心中大概會有一個答案。","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-07-06T09:20:55.459000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:20:57.581000+08:00","text":"我的答案是當然是滿意的。好。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:21:00.023000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:21:02.585000+08:00","text":"李副秘書長，請問同樣的問題……","quality":1},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T09:21:02.585000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T09:21:03.585000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:21:02.585000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:21:05.748000+08:00","text":"您對這個施行，滿意嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T09:21:05.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:21:10.072000+08:00","text":"我們司法院是完全配合犯保法的相關施行來執行。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:21:10.332000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:21:12.173000+08:00","text":"您自己覺得在施行上就你參與的部分，滿意嗎？","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T09:21:12.173000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T09:21:13.173000+08:00","text":"我答案是跟……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:21:13.173000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T09:21:14.173000+08:00","text":"好，就是沒有答案的意思。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:21:13.742000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:21:18.087000+08:00","text":"請問法扶基金會莊董事長，您對於這部法案施行3週年，您滿意嗎？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"莊董事長秋桃","start":"2026-07-06T09:21:29.641000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:21:45.791000+08:00","text":"以法扶的立場來講，我們是依法執行，沒有一個制度能夠百分之百的完美，其實我們國家已經在被害人的保護方面，我們已經盡全力去……好。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:21:45.791000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T09:21:47.042000+08:00","text":"莊董事長，你們再繼續努力……","quality":0.273},{"speaker":"莊董事長秋桃","start":"2026-07-06T09:21:47.042000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T09:21:48.293000+08:00","text":"好，我們會繼續努力。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:21:48.293000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:21:50.754000+08:00","text":"但是你也不敢說您是有相當程度的滿意。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:21:51.655000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:21:57.419000+08:00","text":"再來是犯保協會陳執行長，您對於這個法案的施行滿意嗎？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳執行長娟娟","start":"2026-07-06T09:21:58.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:22:14.446000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，如果我們站在被害人的立場的話，我們真的很感謝有這個機會能親自走進法庭來參與審理的過程，也可以讓他們為自己或者是為失去的家人來爭取一個公平正義的發聲機會。","quality":0.883},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:22:14.546000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:22:22.410000+08:00","text":"因為剛剛您報告，當然不只您，大家的報告對我來說是冷冰冰的文字跟數字啦，但是等一下我會給一些活生生的例子。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:22:23.070000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:22:23.451000+08:00","text":"所以您滿意嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:22:26.195000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:22:26.816000+08:00","text":"您很有代表性耶。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"陳執行長娟娟","start":"2026-07-06T09:22:27.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:22:27.858000+08:00","text":"我們努力中。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:22:28.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:22:30.763000+08:00","text":"大家都努力中，好，謝謝。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:22:30.883000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:22:34.650000+08:00","text":"我就請司法院副秘書長跟法務部次長留步，其他人先請回，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:22:37.617000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:23:06.327000+08:00","text":"次長，財團法人犯罪被害人保護協會在7月1號的時候跟臺灣高等檢察署共同舉辦了一個記者會，這個記者會的名稱很長，叫做「守護升級．服務深化─新犯保法施行三週年：從制度建構邁向溫暖的一路相伴」，然後鄭部長在記者會上的這段話看起來是非常的溫馨感人，他表示：新犯保法施行三年來，不僅是法條的修正，更是臺灣司法保護的重要轉變。","quality":0.859},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:23:06.327000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:23:13.932000+08:00","text":"法律能夠建立制度、劃出保護的邊界，但真正讓犯罪被害人感受到被接住的是制度背後每位陪伴者的同理跟關懷。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:23:13.932000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:23:31.443000+08:00","text":"法務部三年來持續督導各機關落實新法規定，精進犯罪被害者補償制度，深化修復式司法跟案件不漏接機制，並結合犯保協會及社會各界資源，強化司法程序的陪伴、生活的重建跟心理支持服務。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:23:32.503000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:23:35.184000+08:00","text":"老實說，這段話聽起來是感人肺腑。","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:23:36.324000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:23:46.067000+08:00","text":"請問次長，您真的認為部長所說的犯罪被害補償制度、修復式司法、案件不漏接，以及對犯罪被害人的保護及訴訟參與，您覺得都做到了嗎？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-07-06T09:23:50.244000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:23:56.507000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，其實我們有一個目標、有一個願景，部長提的就是我們希望達到的方向。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-07-06T09:23:57.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:24:17.357000+08:00","text":"在這件事情上，我們的犯罪被害保護協會以及所有的相關從事人員都盡了最大的力量在做這件事情，委員可能也可以參考一下我們在犯保的相關活動，事實上真的幫助了非常多的犯罪被害人，也對我們犯罪被害人家屬上有很大的幫助。","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:24:18.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:24:21.400000+08:00","text":"謝謝次長的回答，等一下我用實例來跟您討論。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:24:21.540000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:24:45.865000+08:00","text":"我認為三週年開個記者會也不為過啦，你們如果不認為是慶祝，那就紀念吧，但是除了手拿標語拍拍照等等，我覺得法務部更該做的是反省跟檢討，看看哪裡要做得更好、執行的情況如何，不是說時間到了就來辦個紀念或是慶祝，我為什麼要說這麼嚴厲的話？","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:24:45.865000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:24:56.953000+08:00","text":"因為我是從一個傷心的案子、一個破碎的家庭、一對痛苦的父母身上體會出這個制度跟法律其實是嚴重的不足。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:24:57.894000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:25:10.097000+08:00","text":"副秘書長跟次長，震驚全臺的新北國中生割喉案，今年2月判決定讞，乾哥、乾妹兩位少年兇手分別被判了12年跟11年的徒刑。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:25:11.078000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:25:25.251000+08:00","text":"當天這位被殺死的楊姓國中生的父親，我們都叫他楊爸爸，因為你們規定不准洩漏被害人，但後來他自己把他兒子的名字講出來了，他列了18項聲明，媒體都有報導，我先請教副秘書長跟次長，你們有看過嗎？","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:25:25.251000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:25:25.451000+08:00","text":"他的18項聲明你們讀了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:25:29.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:25:29.355000+08:00","text":"沒有嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:25:29.775000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:25:30.256000+08:00","text":"沒有讀嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:25:32.116000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:25:35.678000+08:00","text":"好，副秘書長及次長，你們都應該回去好好讀，可以嗎？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:25:35.678000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:25:36.258000+08:00","text":"看一下嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:25:38.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:25:53.586000+08:00","text":"這個驚天動地、整個國家都在矚目的案子，被害人家屬講了18點，裡面的每一項聲明都跟犯罪被害人，你們剛剛一直提到的、強調的保護，還有被害人的家屬，如果被害人已經過世的話，他在訴訟參與上都是息息相關的。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:25:57.868000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:26:03.632000+08:00","text":"因為時間有限，我先把判決定讞那天楊爸爸所發聲明中比較重要的幾點拿出來就教兩位。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:26:03.812000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:26:13.479000+08:00","text":"首先，楊爸爸在第五點提到，他在一審的時候向法官提問為什麼讓加害者的證人在走廊上看到秘密證人呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:26:14.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:26:21.904000+08:00","text":"結果一審的劉姓法官跟楊爸爸說那是警察認定的秘密證人，但是法律說他不在秘密證人的保護裡面。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:26:22.605000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:26:30.651000+08:00","text":"後來更讓加害者他們當庭對質，沒有任何保護耶。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:26:30.651000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:27:01.137000+08:00","text":"請問副秘書長跟次長，證人保護法第四條規定「證人或與其有密切利害關係之人因證人到場作證，致生命、身體、自由或財產有遭受危害之虞，而有受保護之必要者，法院於審理中或檢察官於偵查中得依職權或依證人、被害人或其代理人、被告或其辯護人、被移送人或其選任律師、輔佐人、司法警察官、案件移送機關、自訴案件之自訴人之聲請，核發證人保護書。","quality":0.89},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:27:01.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:27:06.181000+08:00","text":"但時間急迫，不及核發證人保護書者，得先採取必要之保護措施。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:27:07.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:27:15.308000+08:00","text":"」條文都寫得這麼清楚，為什麼會出現法官說那是警察認定的秘密證人，不是法律上所保護的秘密證人呢？","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:27:15.488000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:27:15.749000+08:00","text":"請副秘書長來回答。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T09:27:18.556000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:27:18.796000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T09:27:20.237000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:27:30.563000+08:00","text":"這個是令人傷心的案子，的確我們法院在這個少年案件審理的時候，讓被害人以證人身分出庭的時候沒有做好相當隔離措施，這是我們必須要檢討的。","quality":0.79},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:27:30.703000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:27:32.003000+08:00","text":"那一次沒有做好嘛！對。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:27:32.144000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:27:33.524000+08:00","text":"那我再問下一句……","quality":1},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T09:27:33.744000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:27:50.931000+08:00","text":"我要跟委員報告，事實上，在今年2月2號，我們少家廳曾發函請各法院少年法庭在審理相關案件的時候，我們會發一個相關的權利告知書、通知書，如果證人或是被害人有這樣的需求……","quality":0.863},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:27:51.051000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:27:54.072000+08:00","text":"副秘書長，我還有下一個問題，就是可以讓加害者在法庭上當庭對質嗎？","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T09:27:57.633000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:28:04.498000+08:00","text":"這個對質的部分是訴訟審理的需要，但是我剛剛有跟委員報告過，可以透過單面鏡的方式或其他隔離……","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:28:04.498000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T09:28:05.498000+08:00","text":"那是你們的報告，但事實上不是這樣啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T09:28:04.498000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:28:05.118000+08:00","text":"對，所以我們也曾經有發函請各法院在相關證人在做……","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:28:05.138000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:28:05.238000+08:00","text":"你知道楊爸爸怎麼說嗎？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:28:05.258000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:28:05.859000+08:00","text":"那個加害少年跟他說：我出來後會找你，我將來會找你報復。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:28:05.859000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:28:06.959000+08:00","text":"所以楊爸爸已經心裡有數了，他說等這個少年出來以後，他認知自己大概就沒命了！","quality":1},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T09:28:24.371000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:28:31.213000+08:00","text":"所以我剛剛有跟委員報告，這部分我們的確要做相當的檢討跟改進，我們有發函請各法院來遵守相關的一些保護措施。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:28:31.233000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:28:32.473000+08:00","text":"好，我再問一個更原則的問題，請教次長，為什麼檢察機關會這麼隨便認定一個人是不是秘密證人呢？","quality":0.585},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:28:32.693000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:28:34.233000+08:00","text":"請次長回答，這麼隨便認定嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:28:34.233000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:28:34.953000+08:00","text":"警察說是，然後檢察官說不是嗎？","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-07-06T09:28:34.953000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:28:36.354000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們不會隨便認定，我們認定的秘密證人都一定是依照……","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:28:47.016000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:28:49.779000+08:00","text":"要保護也要從寬嘛，你要取得完整的資訊嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-07-06T09:28:50.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:28:50.460000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告……","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:28:51.141000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:28:52.222000+08:00","text":"警察說是而法官說不是！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-07-06T09:28:52.342000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:29:05.456000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，其實在這件事情上，剛剛副秘書長也有提到了，這是一件令人感到遺憾的事情，但是針對這件事情，檢察機關在犯罪被害保護這個部分……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:29:05.776000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:29:08.779000+08:00","text":"楊爸爸那麼認真的提出了18點聲明，你們都沒看！","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-07-06T09:29:09.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:29:24.573000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，不是不看，因為事實上來講，我們犯保協會的同仁全部都一路相伴，從開記者會、從各項訴訟扶助，全部都在旁邊陪伴，事實上，家屬部分對我們檢方的犯罪被害保護也都是給予肯定的，沒有那種做不好的事情。","quality":0.856},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:29:24.593000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:29:25.093000+08:00","text":"好，我再請教次長，你同意他們當面對質嗎？","quality":0.588},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-07-06T09:29:25.093000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:29:25.113000+08:00","text":"跟誰對質？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:29:30.485000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:29:32.626000+08:00","text":"就是受保護的證人跟加害者，也就是跟被告。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-07-06T09:29:32.946000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:29:33.706000+08:00","text":"我們沒有對質這個制度啊！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:29:33.706000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T09:29:35.927000+08:00","text":"可是發生了啊！","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-07-06T09:29:35.927000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:29:46.472000+08:00","text":"其實我們所有犯罪被害保護的同仁都是即時且時時刻刻的關懷，沒有您所謂的那種我們好像對他都不聞不問。","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:29:46.652000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:29:49.913000+08:00","text":"好，請你把楊爸爸的痛心聲明好好讀一次。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-07-06T09:29:50.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:29:57.838000+08:00","text":"我們同仁都有看過，委員，我們都有針對這個聲明仔細的研究，事實上來講，就您提到的這個部分，我們不但做了法律的扶助，我們在經濟上的部分也都已經完成了，113年6月就已經完成了家屬的請領……","quality":0.797},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:29:57.918000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:29:58.238000+08:00","text":"好，你可以讓楊爸爸跟您見面嗎？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:29:58.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:29:58.338000+08:00","text":"你們好好討論。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:29:58.438000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:30:21.258000+08:00","text":"我再請教司法院副秘書長，最近公布的少年事件處理法草案，裡面有一部分倒是回應了楊爸爸跟廣大社會及民眾的要求，但很多細節我還是不滿意的，不過那是另外一個法律要處理的。","quality":0.803},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:30:21.699000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:30:28.690000+08:00","text":"我們回到被害人保護這個議題，請問秘書長，現行的少年事件處理法是否在被害人訴訟參與有嚴重的不足？","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T09:30:30.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:30:35.781000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，有關於少年事件處理法第六十五條相關條文的修正，我們已經提出去了……","quality":0.771},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:30:35.781000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T09:30:40.522000+08:00","text":"但是因為你們沒有看……","quality":0},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T09:30:40.522000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:30:47.584000+08:00","text":"少年刑事案件原先是不可以參與訴訟的，現在我們開放了一些因故意……","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:30:47.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:30:48.584000+08:00","text":"所以才要檢討嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T09:30:49.184000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:30:50.805000+08:00","text":"對、對、對，我們這個部分的草案已經提出去了。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:30:51.225000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:30:51.745000+08:00","text":"痛苦的爸爸提出了……","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T09:30:52.246000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:30:59.411000+08:00","text":"對，這個部分我們做了適度的回應，現在那個修法草案已經出院會，現在在行政院會銜之中，我想應該很快就會送到大院這邊來做審議。","quality":0.709},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:31:00.311000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:31:06.255000+08:00","text":"我必須說，楊爸爸現在口罩拿掉了，他兒子的名字也直接講了，你們要找他麻煩也可以找啦，因為本來是不能公告當事人的。","quality":0.78},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:31:07.516000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:31:12.720000+08:00","text":"他多次對社會傳達，他在新北國中生割喉案當中，對這兩位兇手的假釋與量刑都沒有機會、沒有辦法充分陳述意見，整個審判過程幾乎都聚焦在加害人的背景跟教化的可能，對於家屬的傷痛，法官在判決中完全沒有看見、沒有考量，所謂修復式司法的目的，在這起少年殺人事件當中毫未落實。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:31:12.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:31:35.676000+08:00","text":"他告訴我們，在整個判決書當中，全部幾乎都著眼於怎麼樣保護這個少年，但是被害人的部分幾乎沒有著墨，我想請問，為什麼會出現這樣的狀況？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:31:35.676000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:31:35.857000+08:00","text":"請副秘書長回答。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T09:31:46.978000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:31:50.661000+08:00","text":"有關這個部分，委員所提到的問題，事實上我們也注意到了，所以我們現在修法的方向就是在少事法保全少年健全自我成長的這個目的之下來提升、調整跟被害人相關的權益，我們已經注意到這個部分了。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:31:50.681000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:31:51.761000+08:00","text":"你們已經改了，但是很遺憾的就是在發生這麼重大的慘痛事件以後。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T09:31:51.761000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T09:32:08.931000+08:00","text":"是，這的確是我們覺得非常遺憾的事情。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:32:08.931000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:32:22.394000+08:00","text":"新的少事法有針對少年事件被害人進行補強，過去的重點是全部放在少年身上，所以很多被害人只知道自己家人受害，但是不知道案子怎麼進行、法院怎麼處理或是讓律師閱卷，因為對事情完全不清楚，所以他就會誤解，他就會做不好的想像，請問副秘書長，你同意我講的這段話嗎？","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T09:32:33.297000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:32:40.584000+08:00","text":"事實上，在少事法第三十六條之一有包括訴訟告知，這部分已經有了，那也許在相關訴訟權利的知悉這個部分……","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:32:40.725000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:32:41.345000+08:00","text":"可是他的感覺是這樣，對我剛剛講的這段話你同意嗎？","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:32:41.345000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:32:52.013000+08:00","text":"因為如果你不讓他參與或是讓他的律師閱卷，他就會有不好的想像、不對的聯想或誤會，對不對？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T09:32:52.013000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:32:54.774000+08:00","text":"對，所以一定要讓訴訟程序透明，讓雙方……","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:32:55.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:32:56.675000+08:00","text":"你同意我講的這段話嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:32:56.675000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:32:58.096000+08:00","text":"你同意我這樣的陳述嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T09:32:58.096000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T09:32:59.096000+08:00","text":"我同意委員的陳述。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:32:58.516000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:33:03.097000+08:00","text":"謝謝你同意我，這是少年法庭的蔡坤湖法官在面對媒體時所說的，這還不是我說的。","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:33:06.983000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:33:29.134000+08:00","text":"好，副秘書長、次長，我的質詢時間有限，我只能以我對犯罪被害人保護的粗淺知識向你們請教，因為你們才是專家，法律必須活用並落實在每個人身上，這個新版的犯罪被害人權益保障法滿三週年了，法務部該做的不是開記者會說「我們做三週年了」，而是應該好好去檢討剛剛你們的這些數字等等。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:33:29.234000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:33:51.481000+08:00","text":"其實我們要看的是被害者家屬是不是覺得有得到他們應有的保護或應有的訴訟參與，就是這些過去不足的地方，司法院應該要趕快把審理程序上沒有落實犯罪被害人及其家屬保障的漏洞補起來，要趕快補起來。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:33:51.481000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:34:09.253000+08:00","text":"你們回去再看一下楊爸爸的那些聲明，對少年的保障絕對不能是侵害犯罪被害人權利或侵害其訴訟參與權的理由，它不是理由，不能為了保護這個少年結果侵害被害人或被害家屬啊！","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:34:09.253000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:34:25.663000+08:00","text":"在這一次沒有被害人，因為被害人過世了，只有被害人家屬，你不能侵害他們的訴訟參與權還有他們應該受到保護的權益，請兩位首長就這個部分回去後再好好的檢討跟反省。","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:34:27.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:34:28.306000+08:00","text":"你們兩個都不講話了？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T09:34:29.887000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:34:31.929000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的指教，這部分我們正在進行中。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:34:32.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:34:35.292000+08:00","text":"我們跟楊爸爸見面太多次了，有太多的訴求、太多的……","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-07-06T09:34:36.232000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:34:56.692000+08:00","text":"請委員給我一點時間，因為在新北的這個案件裡面，從一開端我們的犯罪被害人保護協會就已經協助進行調查，委員也可以問問楊爸爸，其實我們的相關同仁真的做了很大的努力，在經濟上、法律上都有提供相關協助。","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-07-06T09:34:57.933000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:35:02.736000+08:00","text":"委員，我們的同仁在知道這樣的案子以後，我們一定會盡全力的。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:35:02.756000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:35:07.620000+08:00","text":"我相信你們願意盡力，但是楊爸爸在判決定讞那一天寫了18項聲明，我還是希望兩位首長回去好好的看一下他的經歷。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-07-06T09:35:07.961000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:35:17.049000+08:00","text":"他在裡面有針對少年的部分，剛剛我們的副秘書長都已經有提到了，會針對訴訟上的制度再做一個調整，對這個部分我們會盡全力去做，謝謝委員。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-07-06T09:35:17.049000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:35:17.449000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝兩位首長，謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席（陳委員昭姿代）","start":"2026-07-06T09:35:17.949000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T09:35:21.949000+08:00","text":"接下來我們請翁曉玲委員做詢答。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":334,"blocks":[["陳委員昭姿：（9時19分）謝謝主席。有請司法院李副秘書長、法務部馮次長、法扶基金會莊董事長、犯保協會陳執行長，有4個單位，謝謝。"],["主席：請幾位長官都可以到前面來列席。"],["陳委員昭姿：各位早。我想請教各位，犯罪被害人權益保障法在2023年2月8日經總統公布了，到2024年全文施行，現在是3週年。我先請教馮次長，您對於這部法案的實施，您滿意嗎？"],["馮次長成：本部會全力保護我們犯罪被害人的權益……"],["陳委員昭姿：已經3週年了，目前你滿意……"],["馮次長成：我們非常努力在做……"],["陳委員昭姿：你們也慶祝過了。"],["馮次長成：跟委員報告，我們不是慶祝，我們其實是把我們各項成果來做審視，我們在犯罪被害人保護之中推動「一路相伴」，這部分發揮了很大的成效。"],["陳委員昭姿：次長，謝謝您。您說您在做，但是您大概沒辦法回答我「您自己滿意嗎？」，您自己心中大概會有一個答案。"],["馮次長成：我的答案是當然是滿意的。"],["陳委員昭姿：好。李副秘書長，請問同樣的問題……"],["李副秘書長釱任：委員好。"],["陳委員昭姿：您對這個施行，滿意嗎？"],["李副秘書長釱任：我們司法院是完全配合犯保法的相關施行來執行。"],["陳委員昭姿：您自己覺得在施行上就你參與的部分，滿意嗎？"],["李副秘書長釱任：我答案是跟……"],["陳委員昭姿：好，就是沒有答案的意思。請問法扶基金會莊董事長，您對於這部法案施行3週年，您滿意嗎？"],["莊董事長秋桃：以法扶的立場來講，我們是依法執行，沒有一個制度能夠百分之百的完美，其實我們國家已經在被害人的保護方面，我們已經盡全力去……"],["陳委員昭姿：好。莊董事長，你們再繼續努力……"],["莊董事長秋桃：好，我們會繼續努力。"],["陳委員昭姿：但是你也不敢說您是有相當程度的滿意。再來是犯保協會陳執行長，您對於這個法案的施行滿意嗎？"],["陳執行長娟娟：謝謝委員，如果我們站在被害人的立場的話，我們真的很感謝有這個機會能親自走進法庭來參與審理的過程，也可以讓他們為自己或者是為失去的家人來爭取一個公平正義的發聲機會。"],["陳委員昭姿：因為剛剛您報告，當然不只您，大家的報告對我來說是冷冰冰的文字跟數字啦，但是等一下我會給一些活生生的例子。所以您滿意嗎？您很有代表性耶。"],["陳執行長娟娟：我們努力中。"],["陳委員昭姿：大家都努力中，好，謝謝。我就請司法院副秘書長跟法務部次長留步，其他人先請回，謝謝。","次長，財團法人犯罪被害人保護協會在7月1號的時候跟臺灣高等檢察署共同舉辦了一個記者會，這個記者會的名稱很長，叫做「守護升級．服務深化─新犯保法施行三週年：從制度建構邁向溫暖的一路相伴」，然後鄭部長在記者會上的這段話看起來是非常的溫馨感人，他表示：新犯保法施行三年來，不僅是法條的修正，更是臺灣司法保護的重要轉變。法律能夠建立制度、劃出保護的邊界，但真正讓犯罪被害人感受到被接住的是制度背後每位陪伴者的同理跟關懷。法務部三年來持續督導各機關落實新法規定，精進犯罪被害者補償制度，深化修復式司法跟案件不漏接機制，並結合犯保協會及社會各界資源，強化司法程序的陪伴、生活的重建跟心理支持服務。老實說，這段話聽起來是感人肺腑。請問次長，您真的認為部長所說的犯罪被害補償制度、修復式司法、案件不漏接，以及對犯罪被害人的保護及訴訟參與，您覺得都做到了嗎？"],["馮次長成：跟委員報告，其實我們有一個目標、有一個願景，部長提的就是我們希望達到的方向。在這件事情上，我們的犯罪被害保護協會以及所有的相關從事人員都盡了最大的力量在做這件事情，委員可能也可以參考一下我們在犯保的相關活動，事實上真的幫助了非常多的犯罪被害人，也對我們犯罪被害人家屬上有很大的幫助。"],["陳委員昭姿：謝謝次長的回答，等一下我用實例來跟您討論。我認為三週年開個記者會也不為過啦，你們如果不認為是慶祝，那就紀念吧，但是除了手拿標語拍拍照等等，我覺得法務部更該做的是反省跟檢討，看看哪裡要做得更好、執行的情況如何，不是說時間到了就來辦個紀念或是慶祝，我為什麼要說這麼嚴厲的話？因為我是從一個傷心的案子、一個破碎的家庭、一對痛苦的父母身上體會出這個制度跟法律其實是嚴重的不足。","副秘書長跟次長，震驚全臺的新北國中生割喉案，今年2月判決定讞，乾哥、乾妹兩位少年兇手分別被判了12年跟11年的徒刑。當天這位被殺死的楊姓國中生的父親，我們都叫他楊爸爸，因為你們規定不准洩漏被害人，但後來他自己把他兒子的名字講出來了，他列了18項聲明，媒體都有報導，我先請教副秘書長跟次長，你們有看過嗎？他的18項聲明你們讀了嗎？沒有嘛？沒有讀嘛！好，副秘書長及次長，你們都應該回去好好讀，可以嗎？看一下嘛！這個驚天動地、整個國家都在矚目的案子，被害人家屬講了18點，裡面的每一項聲明都跟犯罪被害人，你們剛剛一直提到的、強調的保護，還有被害人的家屬，如果被害人已經過世的話，他在訴訟參與上都是息息相關的。","因為時間有限，我先把判決定讞那天楊爸爸所發聲明中比較重要的幾點拿出來就教兩位。首先，楊爸爸在第五點提到，他在一審的時候向法官提問為什麼讓加害者的證人在走廊上看到秘密證人呢？結果一審的劉姓法官跟楊爸爸說那是警察認定的秘密證人，但是法律說他不在秘密證人的保護裡面。後來更讓加害者他們當庭對質，沒有任何保護耶。請問副秘書長跟次長，證人保護法第四條規定「證人或與其有密切利害關係之人因證人到場作證，致生命、身體、自由或財產有遭受危害之虞，而有受保護之必要者，法院於審理中或檢察官於偵查中得依職權或依證人、被害人或其代理人、被告或其辯護人、被移送人或其選任律師、輔佐人、司法警察官、案件移送機關、自訴案件之自訴人之聲請，核發證人保護書。但時間急迫，不及核發證人保護書者，得先採取必要之保護措施。」條文都寫得這麼清楚，為什麼會出現法官說那是警察認定的秘密證人，不是法律上所保護的秘密證人呢？請副秘書長來回答。"],["李副秘書長釱任：委員好。這個是令人傷心的案子，的確我們法院在這個少年案件審理的時候，讓被害人以證人身分出庭的時候沒有做好相當隔離措施，這是我們必須要檢討的。"],["陳委員昭姿：那一次沒有做好嘛！"],["李副秘書長釱任：對。"],["陳委員昭姿：那我再問下一句……"],["李副秘書長釱任：我要跟委員報告，事實上，在今年2月2號，我們少家廳曾發函請各法院少年法庭在審理相關案件的時候，我們會發一個相關的權利告知書、通知書，如果證人或是被害人有這樣的需求……"],["陳委員昭姿：副秘書長，我還有下一個問題，就是可以讓加害者在法庭上當庭對質嗎？"],["李副秘書長釱任：這個對質的部分是訴訟審理的需要，但是我剛剛有跟委員報告過，可以透過單面鏡的方式或其他隔離……"],["陳委員昭姿：那是你們的報告，但事實上不是這樣啊！"],["李副秘書長釱任：對，所以我們也曾經有發函請各法院在相關證人在做……"],["陳委員昭姿：你知道楊爸爸怎麼說嗎？那個加害少年跟他說：我出來後會找你，我將來會找你報復。所以楊爸爸已經心裡有數了，他說等這個少年出來以後，他認知自己大概就沒命了！"],["李副秘書長釱任：所以我剛剛有跟委員報告，這部分我們的確要做相當的檢討跟改進，我們有發函請各法院來遵守相關的一些保護措施。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，我再問一個更原則的問題，請教次長，為什麼檢察機關會這麼隨便認定一個人是不是秘密證人呢？請次長回答，這麼隨便認定嗎？警察說是，然後檢察官說不是嗎？"],["馮次長成：跟委員報告，我們不會隨便認定，我們認定的秘密證人都一定是依照……"],["陳委員昭姿：要保護也要從寬嘛，你要取得完整的資訊嘛！"],["馮次長成：跟委員報告……"],["陳委員昭姿：警察說是而法官說不是！"],["馮次長成：跟委員報告，其實在這件事情上，剛剛副秘書長也有提到了，這是一件令人感到遺憾的事情，但是針對這件事情，檢察機關在犯罪被害保護這個部分……"],["陳委員昭姿：楊爸爸那麼認真的提出了18點聲明，你們都沒看！"],["馮次長成：我跟委員報告，不是不看，因為事實上來講，我們犯保協會的同仁全部都一路相伴，從開記者會、從各項訴訟扶助，全部都在旁邊陪伴，事實上，家屬部分對我們檢方的犯罪被害保護也都是給予肯定的，沒有那種做不好的事情。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，我再請教次長，你同意他們當面對質嗎？"],["馮次長成：跟誰對質？"],["陳委員昭姿：就是受保護的證人跟加害者，也就是跟被告。"],["馮次長成：我們沒有對質這個制度啊！"],["陳委員昭姿：可是發生了啊！"],["馮次長成：其實我們所有犯罪被害保護的同仁都是即時且時時刻刻的關懷，沒有您所謂的那種我們好像對他都不聞不問。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，請你把楊爸爸的痛心聲明好好讀一次。"],["馮次長成：我們同仁都有看過，委員，我們都有針對這個聲明仔細的研究，事實上來講，就您提到的這個部分，我們不但做了法律的扶助，我們在經濟上的部分也都已經完成了，113年6月就已經完成了家屬的請領……"],["陳委員昭姿：好，你可以讓楊爸爸跟您見面嗎？你們好好討論。","我再請教司法院副秘書長，最近公布的少年事件處理法草案，裡面有一部分倒是回應了楊爸爸跟廣大社會及民眾的要求，但很多細節我還是不滿意的，不過那是另外一個法律要處理的。我們回到被害人保護這個議題，請問秘書長，現行的少年事件處理法是否在被害人訴訟參與有嚴重的不足？"],["李副秘書長釱任：跟委員報告，有關於少年事件處理法第六十五條相關條文的修正，我們已經提出去了……"],["陳委員昭姿：但是因為你們沒有看……"],["李副秘書長釱任：少年刑事案件原先是不可以參與訴訟的，現在我們開放了一些因故意……"],["陳委員昭姿：所以才要檢討嘛！"],["李副秘書長釱任：對、對、對，我們這個部分的草案已經提出去了。"],["陳委員昭姿：痛苦的爸爸提出了……"],["李副秘書長釱任：對，這個部分我們做了適度的回應，現在那個修法草案已經出院會，現在在行政院會銜之中，我想應該很快就會送到大院這邊來做審議。"],["陳委員昭姿：我必須說，楊爸爸現在口罩拿掉了，他兒子的名字也直接講了，你們要找他麻煩也可以找啦，因為本來是不能公告當事人的。他多次對社會傳達，他在新北國中生割喉案當中，對這兩位兇手的假釋與量刑都沒有機會、沒有辦法充分陳述意見，整個審判過程幾乎都聚焦在加害人的背景跟教化的可能，對於家屬的傷痛，法官在判決中完全沒有看見、沒有考量，所謂修復式司法的目的，在這起少年殺人事件當中毫未落實。他告訴我們，在整個判決書當中，全部幾乎都著眼於怎麼樣保護這個少年，但是被害人的部分幾乎沒有著墨，我想請問，為什麼會出現這樣的狀況？請副秘書長回答。"],["李副秘書長釱任：有關這個部分，委員所提到的問題，事實上我們也注意到了，所以我們現在修法的方向就是在少事法保全少年健全自我成長的這個目的之下來提升、調整跟被害人相關的權益，我們已經注意到這個部分了。"],["陳委員昭姿：你們已經改了，但是很遺憾的就是在發生這麼重大的慘痛事件以後。"],["李副秘書長釱任：是，這的確是我們覺得非常遺憾的事情。"],["陳委員昭姿：新的少事法有針對少年事件被害人進行補強，過去的重點是全部放在少年身上，所以很多被害人只知道自己家人受害，但是不知道案子怎麼進行、法院怎麼處理或是讓律師閱卷，因為對事情完全不清楚，所以他就會誤解，他就會做不好的想像，請問副秘書長，你同意我講的這段話嗎？"],["李副秘書長釱任：事實上，在少事法第三十六條之一有包括訴訟告知，這部分已經有了，那也許在相關訴訟權利的知悉這個部分……"],["陳委員昭姿：可是他的感覺是這樣，對我剛剛講的這段話你同意嗎？因為如果你不讓他參與或是讓他的律師閱卷，他就會有不好的想像、不對的聯想或誤會，對不對？"],["李副秘書長釱任：對，所以一定要讓訴訟程序透明，讓雙方……"],["陳委員昭姿：你同意我講的這段話嗎？你同意我這樣的陳述嗎？"],["李副秘書長釱任：我同意委員的陳述。"],["陳委員昭姿：謝謝你同意我，這是少年法庭的蔡坤湖法官在面對媒體時所說的，這還不是我說的。好，副秘書長、次長，我的質詢時間有限，我只能以我對犯罪被害人保護的粗淺知識向你們請教，因為你們才是專家，法律必須活用並落實在每個人身上，這個新版的犯罪被害人權益保障法滿三週年了，法務部該做的不是開記者會說「我們做三週年了」，而是應該好好去檢討剛剛你們的這些數字等等。其實我們要看的是被害者家屬是不是覺得有得到他們應有的保護或應有的訴訟參與，就是這些過去不足的地方，司法院應該要趕快把審理程序上沒有落實犯罪被害人及其家屬保障的漏洞補起來，要趕快補起來。你們回去再看一下楊爸爸的那些聲明，對少年的保障絕對不能是侵害犯罪被害人權利或侵害其訴訟參與權的理由，它不是理由，不能為了保護這個少年結果侵害被害人或被害家屬啊！在這一次沒有被害人，因為被害人過世了，只有被害人家屬，你不能侵害他們的訴訟參與權還有他們應該受到保護的權益，請兩位首長就這個部分回去後再好好的檢討跟反省。你們兩個都不講話了？"],["李副秘書長釱任：謝謝委員的指教，這部分我們正在進行中。"],["陳委員昭姿：我們跟楊爸爸見面太多次了，有太多的訴求、太多的……"],["馮次長成：請委員給我一點時間，因為在新北的這個案件裡面，從一開端我們的犯罪被害人保護協會就已經協助進行調查，委員也可以問問楊爸爸，其實我們的相關同仁真的做了很大的努力，在經濟上、法律上都有提供相關協助。委員，我們的同仁在知道這樣的案子以後，我們一定會盡全力的。"],["陳委員昭姿：我相信你們願意盡力，但是楊爸爸在判決定讞那一天寫了18項聲明，我還是希望兩位首長回去好好的看一下他的經歷。"],["馮次長成：他在裡面有針對少年的部分，剛剛我們的副秘書長都已經有提到了，會針對訴訟上的制度再做一個調整，對這個部分我們會盡全力去做，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，謝謝兩位首長，謝謝主席。"],["主席（陳委員昭姿代）：接下來我們請翁曉玲委員做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":128,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-36-23","speakers":["翁曉玲","陳昭姿","吳宗憲","沈發惠","賴士葆","陳冠廷","林倩綺","許宇甄","林沛祥","張雅琳","莊瑞雄","范雲","蔡其昌","傅崐萁"],"page_start":57,"meetingDate":["2026-07-06"],"gazette_id":"1155901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155901_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第23次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院秘書長、法務部部長、財團法人法律扶助基金會、財團法人犯罪被害人保護協會針對\n「犯罪被害人訴訟參與制度之現況、檢討與精進」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1155901_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}