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我們麻煩副秘書長還有長賜好 請副秘書長跟長賜"},{"start":17.352,"end":46.502,"text":"好兩位早安我今天想要提的是我上個禮拜五我已經提出刑訴455之48的修正草案那這個條文呢我想簡單的來說這條文就是被害人家屬他在法院判決到底要判多重之前應該要給他們一個機會能夠出來說話要讓法院要讓他們能夠說而且可以讓他們可以直接的問被告讓被告當面聽到自己"},{"start":47.122,"end":71.089,"text":"的所作所為對家屬造成多大的傷害那我想 我也不會演 我這個條文的的源起其實就是那個馬來西亞那個馬大生姦殺案那我今天用這個案子已經改判無期徒刑確定的這個案子我們來看一下我們現行制度的缺失我想一個馬來西亞的女生她"},{"start":72.93,"end":98.245,"text":"在109年他回宿舍途中被強姦殺人那從一審跑到更二審總共五年的時間那我們可以看到犯罪事實的部分這個被告他是用事先已經打好的上吊結的麻繩來綑綁他也就是他早就準備好這個犯罪工具然後把他拖進草叢然後用超過15公斤的力道去勒頸部"},{"start":100.066,"end":123.632,"text":"所以他之前在一審二審 更衣都判死刑他認為沒有教化可能 但是更熱又改判無期徒刑他認為他不是蓄衣殺人 還有教化的可能性我過去曾經公開批評過這個判決我覺得這個判決根本就是為了迎合上意為了迎合那個憲判制的上意 然後來做出這樣的改判但我今天已經判決確定 我不是在討論這個該不該判死刑"},{"start":125.592,"end":147.16,"text":"我講的是被害人在訴訟制度上面的位置那我也跟兩位前輩報告其實我一直很期待在這段時間能夠盡量的幫我國訴訟制度加以去修正所以常常我們的助理早上六點就在起來在討論說到底我們那個制度上面要怎麼修我們希望能夠越修越貼近於人民"},{"start":148.18,"end":166.466,"text":"所以我有兩個層次問題第一個就是到底被害的遺屬可不可以在法院要怎麼判的時候表達他們的意見該或不該我想請問司法院該或不該讓他們有這個表達意見的機會我非常認同委員這部分有關於被害人影響陳述的相關的修法方向"},{"start":166.966,"end":183.379,"text":"事實上在司法院在去年的9月11號我們的院會已經通過相關的修法規定好那第一個程序第二個問題當被害人講出這些話的時候法院到底有沒有需要把這些話當作考量的依據"},{"start":184.5,"end":196.447,"text":"有沒有必要這是法官的義務當然是應該的這是法官在量刑上應該慎做的事項當然我們還有第三個層次問題等一下再談法官如果應該要考量的話是只要在判決書裡面"},{"start":198.207,"end":223.007,"text":"記錄下被害人曾經講什麼就可以還是必須說明我對被害人講過什麼的這個想法是什麼我想第三個問題你們有想過嗎事實上要跟委員說明一下那有關於裁判書的法官說理義務這個部分我們現在也希望在法院再量刑的精緻化跟細緻化這個部分能做更進一步的來做說明所以他就變選擇嘛法官是可以選擇做或不做"},{"start":223.847,"end":247.368,"text":"他沒有做也不會成為判決違背法令的理由也沒辦法上訴三審啊對不對這個有可能會被最高法院要上訴審來做條例有關量刑的部分他的不夠精細的部分這個就是我這次要跟你們提的一個其中的一個重點因為三審是法律審那如果他沒有加以審查的話又不屬於違背法令的判決被加署"},{"start":248.001,"end":260.247,"text":"被害者連救濟的機會都沒有這是我今天要跟你點的第一個重大的問題我要跟各位報告我們自己都有小孩你家裡面小孩之後跌倒受一個小傷我們都心痛的要命那今天這個媽媽這個馬來西亞這女大生的媽媽她講什麼"},{"start":265.569,"end":281.866,"text":"他說不只我女兒是受害者 我也是啦他說我唯一的女兒 完整的家都沒有每次來台灣都是心理的虐待女兒身上的傷是多心狠手辣的人才做得出來那請求台灣司法給我公正公道跟正義"},{"start":283.047,"end":306.439,"text":"你知道他講這些然後他也講了說如果他當下一下就斷氣死亡沒有受到很大的痛苦他媽媽還可以接受他已經卑微到這樣但是他今天看到的是這個死者他反抗還咬被告而且被暴力的打到死所以這個對一個父母來說是多麼傷痛的一件事但是我們的司法卻沒有讓人家感覺到一點點的溫暖這是讓家屬會有這種"},{"start":310.202,"end":320.783,"text":"會這種感覺 台灣的司法並沒有給他們溫暖台灣司法並沒有讓他伸張正義那更慘的是今天更一審還是判死刑 到更二審的時候他直接完全"},{"start":321.892,"end":341.518,"text":"把被害人講的這段話 他連考量都不考量 他就是摘要記載之後直接就轉去 案一三憲判八 就直接給他判無期徒刑等於是過往那些 之前的那些法官對於醫署這些說話把他放入量刑的這些考量 到更惡審的時候 當作沒這回事"},{"start":342.597,"end":369.915,"text":"只為了迎合喪意 這是我看到我對本案難過的一個點跟二審完全不管的就是記載家屬說了哪些話家屬說這些話為什麼不能夠被認為是量刑的一個重大考量法官連講都沒講 他就記載你講什麼話那這個沒有任何意義啦那我再從比較法的觀點來跟你們提啦加拿大的刑法那個Criminal Court他們722條 他其實有講到一個"},{"start":370.635,"end":392.496,"text":"法院在下判決的時候強制考量被害人聲明它有這個制度存在所以它必須要主動詢問檢察官是不是已經給被害人準備聲明的機會那在加拿大它這是一個應考量的法定義務但是在我們這裡它只是法官選擇就像當廳長您說的嘛我們有要他們這麼做但是不要也沒事啊因為他們違背法令嘛 廳長"},{"start":393.99,"end":407.729,"text":"跟委員說明一下事實上在最近一個判決也許我們可以看得出來就是在台中高分院跟省的一個殺人案件就是那個鋼建公司那個那個法官在亮行的時候有特別提到說"},{"start":409.417,"end":434.585,"text":"不對 被害人因此所受的損害 難以平復這部分他是他家的量刑理由之一所以有的裁判說疊罪會激增我知道這是我跟廳長您報告 更衣省也有啊馬大申案更衣省也有 申俄省不見了所以我們注意到這一塊我只希望把這個東西列入為制度而不是看法官的心情或法官的個性因為這對家屬不公平嘛我跟你講一個家人被殺死"},{"start":436.125,"end":456.083,"text":"毀掉的是整個家庭不是單一個人我辦過的案子一個獨子被打死他爸爸媽媽說他們的人生也沒了那一槍等於打死三個人這是事實大家會遇到所以我今天希望的一個部分就是說因為二審如果沒有處理好根本沒有辦法當作上訴三審的理由"},{"start":456.744,"end":476.442,"text":"三省是法律省所以這個部分我是希望把它列到制度裡面由法律來規範賦予法官的義務我沒有要求法官要全面接受被害人家族的說法但是你不接受的理由要告訴大家我們只是要求這樣我沒有要去影響法官的判決但是法官你不採"},{"start":477.603,"end":491.938,"text":"被害者家屬的說法我都尊重但必須說明清楚好不好這庭長那麻煩你們考量跟委員說明一下我想在刑法57條跟量刑的相關的因審酌的事項包括被害人所受的損害"},{"start":493.119,"end":503.905,"text":"這些都是法院在量刑時 應審酌的事項法官一定會審酌 只是他有沒有寫在裁判書上面而已應該是記載的問題沒有 我跟你講 你這個無期條那個我們當然知道啦但是不管怎麼樣 我們已經讓家屬有說話的機會了"},{"start":514.75,"end":537.228,"text":"但是我們賦予他說話的機會卻不要求法官對他說的話表示踩或不踩的意見那這樣就不對了嘛你等於開了一扇門但是後門又再把他關起來還是沒有意義啊本人講的我是認同的這個我們法官正進一步的在說我想這個部分我將來修正東西我還是把它補上啦我希望把它補上變成是一個制度我的修好方向不是要求"},{"start":538.129,"end":558.434,"text":"被害人有主張的這個機會而已我要求的是要讓遺主看得到這些家人看得到法官到底是怎麼想採或不採他的想法因為法官如果在判決書裡面連交代他怎麼看待被害人痛苦的勇氣都沒有那司法院喊的那個司法衛名就變成口號"},{"start":559.494,"end":570.728,"text":"所以這是我的一個想法再來我想跟你提到的一個點就是我們的量行資訊系統的黑箱的問題"},{"start":575.194,"end":599.24,"text":"因為你們現在雖然有用一個那個量刑因子的那個系統對不對然後但是呢這會我當然想到一個資料庫的問題因為過往的資料過往的法官你並沒有賦予他一個要說明這個被害人家屬的他們的論述他們的聲明你並沒有賦予法官要採或不採的義務要說明在判決裡面嘛所以這個資料庫並沒有辦法完整的"},{"start":600.84,"end":616.285,"text":"實現這一塊也就是說過往的判決它不需要說明說被害者家屬有多痛苦但是我不予採納為量刑的理由過往的判決沒有這個義務所以這個資料庫裡面是沒有辦法呈現這個的啊資料庫裡面的所有量刑因子都是犯罪的客觀事實"},{"start":617.325,"end":635.339,"text":"對於被害人家屬多痛苦而放盡量刑因子的這個在資料庫是沒有的所以這會變成未來資料庫的一個大黑箱一個大的一個問題啦一個漏洞在那裡所以我是要麻煩你們就這一塊也要把它列入參考好不好"},{"start":636.399,"end":660.598,"text":"謝謝委員的指教這部分我們對事實性量刑秩序系統的精進我們現在一直是在做那也在做一些相關的改進包括我們在國法案件有用它的更細緻的量刑因子表這部分我們有在進一步在實施因為我看到那個高雄屍奪獎案啊新北戈口案其實法官在判決裡面都沒有去提到被害者家屬他們所以我們在新的修法那委員剛剛也提到過那45之48那還有一個就是"},{"start":663.92,"end":678.694,"text":"既然我們有讓這些被害人家屬在訴訟參與上面有一個陪同權既然有這個陪同權那我也想要麻煩一個點就是說陪同的這個部分是不是可以在執法上面把它明文化讓家屬"},{"start":679.375,"end":695.66,"text":"或者是陪同者更有跡可循到法庭他能怎麼做或要服從什麼樣的規定我沒有要再母法但執法可不可以麻煩你們處理一下也許我們會再注意事項這個部分我們來做進一步來做處理謝謝委員的指教這個很重要還有就是說"},{"start":697.621,"end":715.479,"text":"還有一個就是他這些人那個家屬他來發言的時候他的資料等等的個人資料你們也要注意保密的部分這部分我們沒有問題我們對相關證人被害人還有包括代理人的相關的個資的部分我們都是非常的小心這部分我們會做進一步的再做處理"},{"start":717.987,"end":726.912,"text":"最後想提一個點我還是說那個教化可能性的問題因為教化可能性一直是大家很爭議的很有意見的東西"},{"start":728.406,"end":753.127,"text":"我跟你講 我自己辦過的案子啊 我在士林地檢署曾經處理過一個被告他來開庭 文質彬彬 講話非常客氣 非常有道理我看到警察的筆錄 一堆人把他 說他這個人很可怕 動不動打人 動不動罵人結果呢 我們開庭都覺得他很乖 這根本就是一個模範的代表後來有一天我剛好帶朋友在士林夜市那邊 看到他騎摩托車在裡面騷擾人 大呼小叫"},{"start":753.948,"end":772.117,"text":"也就是說被告在開庭的時候是會表演的那你動不動用被告他在開庭的時候或者是他在教誨師面前他的情緒是善意的他有回憶以這個來當作有教化的標準我真的覺得不太能接受啦因為這樣子的話我說真的就大家講的嘛"},{"start":773.973,"end":791.52,"text":"中華民國表演能力最強的是誰 兩種人一個是開庭的被告 另外一個是政客就是這兩種人最會表演嘛那他們在我們開庭的時候的面前他們就演了一副乖乖牌的那個樣子我想以這個來認為說有教化可能性這個大家都不能接受啦"},{"start":792,"end":811.909,"text":"所以這個我也是要麻煩你們注意一下就教化可能性的部分你要給社會大眾一個交代好那最後這個法務部我就列在上面給你們看我希望你們不能都推給司法院這個部分尤其是被害者陳述的部分因為前端在法務部麻煩你們注意一下"},{"start":813.55,"end":840.541,"text":"范寶要不要協助檢察官要不要告知法服要不要協助處理跨國被害人有沒有翻譯重大刑案有沒有可不可以給他一個固定窗口我想你們可以會同一下范寶法服最高檢還有司法院我希望你們提出一個這個影響陳述標準的作業流程那SOP大概就是這五項時間關係我就不唸出來我真的是希望一個點就是如果司法還有一點點溫暖麻煩留給被害人"},{"start":841.081,"end":845.273,"text":"不是要留給被告麻煩留給被害人好 謝謝各位 辛苦各位"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T09:55:58.736000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:55:59.899000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，麻煩副秘書長還有常次。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-06T09:56:01.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:56:01.303000+08:00","text":"請副秘書長和常次。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T09:56:10.652000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:56:11.032000+08:00","text":"兩位早安。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T09:56:12.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:56:21.396000+08:00","text":"我今天想要提的是，我上個禮拜五已經提出刑事訴訟法第四百五十五條之四十八的修正草案。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T09:56:23.717000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:56:43.963000+08:00","text":"簡單來說，這個條文就是被害人家屬在法院決定到底要判多重之前，應該有機會站出來說話，法院要讓他們能夠說，而且讓他們可以直接問被告，讓被告當面聽到自己所作所為對家屬造成多大的傷害。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T09:56:45.484000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:57:00.628000+08:00","text":"我也不諱言這個提案的緣起其實就是針對馬來西亞那個女大學生的姦殺案，我今天要用已經改判無期徒刑確定的這個案子來看一下現行制度的缺失。","quality":0.825},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T09:57:02.289000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:57:16.456000+08:00","text":"一個來自馬來西亞的女生109年在回宿舍途中被姦殺，從一審到更二審，總共5年的時間。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T09:57:16.597000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:57:31.225000+08:00","text":"我們看到犯罪事實的部分，這個被告是用事先打好「上吊結」的麻繩來捆綁她，也就是他早就準備好這個犯罪工具，然後把她拖進草叢，用超過15公斤的力道去勒她的頸部。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T09:57:33.526000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:57:43.629000+08:00","text":"他之前在一審、二審和更一都被判死刑，因為認為沒有教化的可能，但是更二又改判無期徒刑，認為他不是蓄意殺人，還有教化的可能性。","quality":0.855},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T09:57:44.129000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:58:01.293000+08:00","text":"我曾經公開批評過這個判決，我覺得根本就是為了迎合憲判字的上意而做出這樣的改判，但是因為已經判決確定，所以我今天不是要來討論該不該判死刑，我要講的是被害人在訴訟制度上面的位置。","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T09:58:01.953000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:58:20.140000+08:00","text":"我也跟兩位前輩報告，其實我一直很期待在這段時間能夠儘量幫我國的訴訟制度加以修正，所以我的助理常常早上6點就在討論到底我們的制度要怎麼修，我們希望能夠越修越貼近人民。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T09:58:22.140000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:58:29.923000+08:00","text":"我有兩個層次的問題，第一個是被害人遺屬到底可不可以在法院要怎麼判的時候表達他們的意見？","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T09:58:29.923000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:58:30.703000+08:00","text":"該或不該？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T09:58:31.303000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:58:34.084000+08:00","text":"請問司法院，該或不該讓他們有表達意見的機會？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T09:58:34.084000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:58:47.712000+08:00","text":"我非常認同委員有關被害人影響陳述的相關修法方向，事實上司法院在去年9月11日的院會已經通過相關的修法。好。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T09:58:48.593000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:58:56.379000+08:00","text":"第二個問題是，當被害人講出本席PPT所示這些話的時候，法院到底有沒有需要把這些話當做考量的依據？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T09:58:57.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:58:58.020000+08:00","text":"有沒有必要？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T09:58:58.501000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:58:59.541000+08:00","text":"這是不是法官的義務？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T09:58:59.541000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:59:03.884000+08:00","text":"當然是應該的，這是法官在量刑上應該審酌的事項，包括被害人……","quality":0.731},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T09:59:04.744000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:59:06.906000+08:00","text":"有關陳述的問題等一下再談。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T09:59:06.906000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:59:18.313000+08:00","text":"如果法官應該要考量的話，是只要在判決書裡面記錄下被害人曾經講什麼就可以，還是必須說明法官對於被害人講過什麼的想法是什麼？","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T09:59:19.674000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:59:20.615000+08:00","text":"這個問題你們有想過嗎？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T09:59:21.816000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:59:33.064000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明一下，有關裁判書的法官說理義務這個部分，我們現在也希望法院在量刑精緻化和細緻化的部分能更進一步地來做說明。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T09:59:33.084000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:59:34.145000+08:00","text":"所以它就變選擇嘛！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T09:59:34.365000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:59:42.392000+08:00","text":"法官可以選擇做或不做，他沒有做也不會成為判決違背法令的理由，也沒辦法上訴三審，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T09:59:42.392000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:59:49.118000+08:00","text":"這個有可能會被最高法院或上訴審挑剔，萬一量刑的部分不夠精細……","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T09:59:49.378000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:00:02.922000+08:00","text":"這個就是我這次要跟你們提的其中一個重點，因為三審是法律審，如果他沒有加以審查的話，又不屬於違背法令的判決，家屬、被害者連救濟的機會都沒有。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:00:03.142000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:00:05.043000+08:00","text":"這是我今天要跟你點出的第一個重大的問題。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:00:05.043000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:00:13.247000+08:00","text":"我要跟各位報告，我們自己都有小孩，小孩子跌倒受個小傷，我們都心痛得要命，今天馬來西亞這個女大生的媽媽講什麼？","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:00:18.569000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:00:21.512000+08:00","text":"他說：不只我女兒是受害者，我也是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:00:22.413000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:00:30.942000+08:00","text":"我唯一的女兒、完整的家都沒有了，每次來臺灣都是心理的虐待……女兒身上的傷是多心狠手辣的人才做得出來！","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:00:31.262000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:00:34.866000+08:00","text":"請求臺灣司法給我公道跟正義。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:00:36.387000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:00:43.331000+08:00","text":"他還說：如果他當下一下子就斷氣死亡，沒有受到很大的痛苦，媽媽還可以接受。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:00:43.471000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:00:51.615000+08:00","text":"他已經卑微到這樣，但是他今天看到的是死者反抗，咬了被告，最後被暴力打到死亡。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:00:52.956000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:00:59.279000+08:00","text":"這對父母來說是多麼傷痛的一件事，但是我們的司法卻沒有讓人家感覺到一點點溫暖。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:00:59.379000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:01:07.791000+08:00","text":"這讓家屬會有這種感覺：臺灣的司法並沒有給他們溫暖、臺灣的司法並沒有為他們伸張正義。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:01:07.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:01:25.015000+08:00","text":"更慘的是，更一審還是判死刑，到更二審，法官對被害人講的這段話連考量都不考量，就是摘要記載之後，轉為按憲判8，直接改判無期徒刑。","quality":0.836},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:01:25.835000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:01:36.578000+08:00","text":"等於是之前那些法官把遺屬說的這些話放入量刑考量，到更二審的時候卻被當做沒這回事，只為了迎合上意。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:01:36.998000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:01:39.820000+08:00","text":"這是我對本案感到難過的一個點。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:01:40.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:01:44.643000+08:00","text":"更二審完全不管了，就只是記載家屬說了哪些話。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:01:44.643000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:01:49.046000+08:00","text":"家屬說這些話為什麼不能被認為是量刑的重大考量？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:01:49.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:01:53.348000+08:00","text":"法官連講都沒講，就只是記載你講了什麼話，這是沒有任何意義的！","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:01:54.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:01:57.131000+08:00","text":"我再從比較法的觀點來跟你們提。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:01:57.871000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:02:06.898000+08:00","text":"加拿大的刑法Criminal Code第七百二十二條有講到一個，法院在下判決的時候，強制考量被害人聲明。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:02:07.419000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:02:13.945000+08:00","text":"它有這個制度存在，所以他必須要主動詢問檢察官，是不是已經給被害人準備聲明的機會。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:02:14.726000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:02:25.496000+08:00","text":"在加拿大，這是一個應考量的法定義務，但是在我們這裡，這只是法官的選擇，就像剛剛廳長說的，我們有要他們這麼做，但是他不要也沒事，因為沒有違背法令。廳長。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T10:02:26.990000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:02:48.579000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明一下，事實上，在最近一個判決，我們可以看得出來，就是在臺中高分院更審的那個殺人案件，就是康建生技公司那個案件，那個法官在量刑的時候，有特別提出來，被害人因此所受的損害難以平復是他的量刑理由之一，所以有的裁判書的確會記載這一句……","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:02:48.899000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:02:54.701000+08:00","text":"我知道，這是我跟廳長報告的，馬大生案的更一審也有，更二審不見了……","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T10:02:55.161000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:02:57.302000+08:00","text":"是，所以我們有注意到這一塊……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:02:57.302000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:03:04.444000+08:00","text":"我只希望把這個東西列入為制度，而不是看法官的心情或法官的個性，因為這對家屬不公平！","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:03:06.184000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:03:10.827000+08:00","text":"我跟你講，一個家人被殺死，毀掉的是整個家庭，不是單一個人。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:03:11.267000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:03:15.831000+08:00","text":"我辦過的案子當中，一個獨子被打死，他的爸爸媽媽說，他們的人生也沒了！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:03:16.152000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:03:19.635000+08:00","text":"那一槍等於打死三個人，這是事實，大家會遇到。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:03:23.799000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:03:37.291000+08:00","text":"因為二審如果沒有處理好，根本沒有辦法當作上訴三審的理由，三審是法律審，所以我今天是希望把這個部分列到制度裡面，由法律來規範賦予法官的義務。","quality":0.859},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:03:37.291000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:03:55.348000+08:00","text":"我沒有要求法官要全面接受被害人家屬的說法，但是法官不接受的理由要告訴大家，我們只是要求這樣，我沒有要去影響法官的判決，法官不採被害者家屬的說法，我都尊重，但是必須說明清楚，好不好？","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:03:55.468000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:03:56.549000+08:00","text":"廳長，這個麻煩你們考量。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T10:03:56.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:04:14.643000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明一下，刑法第五十七條有關量刑的相關應審酌事項包括被害人所受的損害，這些就是法院在量刑時應審酌的事項，法官一定會審酌，只是他有沒有寫在裁判書上面而已，應該是記載的問題，這個部分我們還是會宣導……","quality":0.796},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:04:14.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:04:35.616000+08:00","text":"我跟你講，你講的刑法第五十七條，我們當然知道，但是不管怎麼樣，我們已經讓家屬有說話的機會了，我們賦予他說話的機會，卻不要求法官對他說的話表示採或不採的意見，這樣就不對了！","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:04:35.957000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:04:39.600000+08:00","text":"等於開了一扇門，但是後門又關起來，還是沒有意義……","quality":1},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T10:04:40.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:04:43.143000+08:00","text":"委員講的，我是認同，我們會跟法官講再更進一步說理、這樣說理……","quality":0.538},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:04:43.143000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:04:48.047000+08:00","text":"好，我想這個部分我將來還是會提修正動議補上，我希望把它補上，變成是一個制度。","quality":0.794},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:04:48.567000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:05:11.434000+08:00","text":"我的修法方向不是要求被害人有主張的這個機會而已，我要求的是要讓這些家人、遺屬看得到法官到底是怎麼想、他採或不採的想法，因為法官如果連在判決書裡面交代他怎麼看待被害人痛苦的勇氣都沒有，司法院喊的「司法為民」就變成口號！","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:05:13.395000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:05:14.917000+08:00","text":"這是我的一個想法。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:05:16.539000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:05:23.728000+08:00","text":"再來，我想跟你提到的一個點就是量刑資訊系統的黑箱問題。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:05:28.774000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:05:33.575000+08:00","text":"雖然你們現在有用一個量刑因子的系統，對不對？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:05:33.975000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:06:28.319000+08:00","text":"但是我想到一個資料庫的問題，因為過往並沒有賦予法官要在判決裡面說明採或不採被害人家屬論述、聲明的義務，所以這個資料庫並沒有辦法完整的呈現這一塊，也就是過往的判決不需要說明被害者家屬有多痛苦但是不予採納為量刑的理由，過往的判決沒有這個義務，所以這個資料庫裡面是沒有辦法呈現這個的，資料庫裡面的所有量刑因子都是犯罪的客觀事實，有關被害人家屬多痛苦而放進量刑因子的這個，資料庫是沒有的，這會變成未來資料庫有一個大黑箱、一個大問題、一個漏洞在那裡，所以我要麻煩你們也要把這一塊列入參考，好不好？","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T10:06:29.399000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:06:42.189000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的指教，對於事實型量刑資訊系統的精進，我們現在一直在做，也在做相關的改進，包括國法案件更細緻的量刑因子表，我們有再進一步……","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:06:42.609000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:06:49.034000+08:00","text":"因為我看到高雄師鐸獎案、新北割喉案，法官在判決裡面都沒有去提到被害者家屬的心聲……","quality":0.811},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T10:06:49.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:06:52.657000+08:00","text":"對，所以我們在新的修法，委員剛剛也提到過，第四百五十五條之四十八這個部分……好。","quality":0.529},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:06:52.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:07:17.577000+08:00","text":"還有一個，既然我們讓被害人家屬在訴訟參與上面有陪同權，我也想要麻煩一個點，就是陪同的這個部分是不是可以在子法上面明文化，讓家屬或者是陪同者更有跡可循到法庭能怎麼做或要服從什麼樣的規定？","quality":0.989},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:07:17.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:07:21.178000+08:00","text":"我沒有要在母法，但是子法可不可以麻煩你們處理一下？","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T10:07:21.498000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:07:24.139000+08:00","text":"也許我們會在注意事項……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:07:24.139000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:07:25.139000+08:00","text":"好，這個可以，我接受……","quality":0},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T10:07:24.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:07:27.300000+08:00","text":"這個部分我們進一步來做處理，謝謝委員的指教。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:07:27.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:07:27.780000+08:00","text":"這個很重要。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:07:28.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:07:39.049000+08:00","text":"還有一個，就是家屬來發言的時候，他的個人資料等等，你們也要注意保密的部分，好不好？","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T10:07:39.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:07:48.459000+08:00","text":"這個部分我們沒有問題，對於相關證人、被害人，包括代理人，相關的個資部分，我們都是非常小心，這個部分我們會進一步再做處理。好。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:07:50.987000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:07:59.412000+08:00","text":"最後我想提一個點，我還是說教化可能性的問題，因為教化可能性一直是大家很爭議的、很有意見的。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:08:01.406000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:08:26.107000+08:00","text":"我跟你講我自己辦過的案子，我在士林地檢署曾經處理過一個被告，他來開庭的時候，文質彬彬，講話非常客氣、非常有道理，我看到警察的筆錄，一堆人說他這個人很可怕、動不動打人、動不動罵人，結果我們開庭的時候都覺得他很乖，根本就是一個模範的代表，後來有一天，我剛好帶朋友在士林夜市，看到他騎摩托車在裡面騷擾人，大呼小叫。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:08:26.948000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:08:42.215000+08:00","text":"也就是被告在開庭的時候是會表演的，所以動不動用被告在開庭的時候，或是他在教誨師面前，情緒是善意的、有悔意，來當作有教化可能的標準，我真的覺得不太能接受。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:08:43.076000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:08:50.214000+08:00","text":"因為我說真的，就大家講的，中華民國表演能力最強的是誰？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:08:50.214000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:08:54.276000+08:00","text":"兩種人，一個就是開庭的被告，另外一個是政客，就這兩種人最會表演。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:08:55.056000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:09:10.743000+08:00","text":"他們在開庭的時候，在我們的面前，就演一副乖乖牌的樣子，我想以這個來認為有教化可能性，大家都不能接受，所以這個我也是要麻煩你們注意一下，就教化可能性的部分，你要給社會大眾一個交代。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:09:11.983000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:09:23.189000+08:00","text":"最後，法務部，我就列在上面給你們看，我希望你們不能都推給司法院，尤其是被害者陳述的部分，因為前端在法務部。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:09:23.589000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:09:27.410000+08:00","text":"麻煩你們注意一下，犯保要不要協助？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:09:27.691000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:09:28.451000+08:00","text":"檢察官要不要告知？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:09:28.651000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:09:29.731000+08:00","text":"法扶要不要協助處理？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:09:29.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:09:31.712000+08:00","text":"跨國被害人有沒有翻譯？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:09:31.712000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:09:34.333000+08:00","text":"重大刑案可不可以給一個固定窗口？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:09:35.013000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:09:46.898000+08:00","text":"你們可以會同犯保、法扶、最高檢還有司法院，我希望你們提出一個影響陳述的標準作業流程，SOP大概就是這五項，時間的關係，我就不念出來。","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:09:46.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:09:56.849000+08:00","text":"我真的是希望一個點，如果司法還有一點點溫暖，麻煩留給被害人，不是要留給被告，麻煩留給被害人。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-07-06T10:09:57.631000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:09:58.253000+08:00","text":"謝謝各位，辛苦各位！","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-06T10:09:58.753000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:10:00.753000+08:00","text":"謝謝吳宗憲委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-06T10:10:01.053000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:10:03.910143+08:00","text":"接下來有請沈發惠委員。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":477,"blocks":[["吳委員宗憲：（9時55分）謝謝主席，麻煩副秘書長還有常次。"],["主席：請副秘書長和常次。"],["吳委員宗憲：兩位早安。我今天想要提的是，我上個禮拜五已經提出刑事訴訟法第四百五十五條之四十八的修正草案。簡單來說，這個條文就是被害人家屬在法院決定到底要判多重之前，應該有機會站出來說話，法院要讓他們能夠說，而且讓他們可以直接問被告，讓被告當面聽到自己所作所為對家屬造成多大的傷害。","我也不諱言這個提案的緣起其實就是針對馬來西亞那個女大學生的姦殺案，我今天要用已經改判無期徒刑確定的這個案子來看一下現行制度的缺失。一個來自馬來西亞的女生109年在回宿舍途中被姦殺，從一審到更二審，總共5年的時間。我們看到犯罪事實的部分，這個被告是用事先打好「上吊結」的麻繩來捆綁她，也就是他早就準備好這個犯罪工具，然後把她拖進草叢，用超過15公斤的力道去勒她的頸部。他之前在一審、二審和更一都被判死刑，因為認為沒有教化的可能，但是更二又改判無期徒刑，認為他不是蓄意殺人，還有教化的可能性。","我曾經公開批評過這個判決，我覺得根本就是為了迎合憲判字的上意而做出這樣的改判，但是因為已經判決確定，所以我今天不是要來討論該不該判死刑，我要講的是被害人在訴訟制度上面的位置。我也跟兩位前輩報告，其實我一直很期待在這段時間能夠儘量幫我國的訴訟制度加以修正，所以我的助理常常早上6點就在討論到底我們的制度要怎麼修，我們希望能夠越修越貼近人民。","我有兩個層次的問題，第一個是被害人遺屬到底可不可以在法院要怎麼判的時候表達他們的意見？該或不該？請問司法院，該或不該讓他們有表達意見的機會？"],["李副秘書長釱任：我非常認同委員有關被害人影響陳述的相關修法方向，事實上司法院在去年9月11日的院會已經通過相關的修法。"],["吳委員宗憲：好。第二個問題是，當被害人講出本席PPT所示這些話的時候，法院到底有沒有需要把這些話當做考量的依據？有沒有必要？這是不是法官的義務？"],["李副秘書長釱任：當然是應該的，這是法官在量刑上應該審酌的事項，包括被害人……"],["吳委員宗憲：有關陳述的問題等一下再談。如果法官應該要考量的話，是只要在判決書裡面記錄下被害人曾經講什麼就可以，還是必須說明法官對於被害人講過什麼的想法是什麼？這個問題你們有想過嗎？"],["李副秘書長釱任：跟委員說明一下，有關裁判書的法官說理義務這個部分，我們現在也希望法院在量刑精緻化和細緻化的部分能更進一步地來做說明。"],["吳委員宗憲：所以它就變選擇嘛！法官可以選擇做或不做，他沒有做也不會成為判決違背法令的理由，也沒辦法上訴三審，對不對？"],["李副秘書長釱任：這個有可能會被最高法院或上訴審挑剔，萬一量刑的部分不夠精細……"],["吳委員宗憲：這個就是我這次要跟你們提的其中一個重點，因為三審是法律審，如果他沒有加以審查的話，又不屬於違背法令的判決，家屬、被害者連救濟的機會都沒有。這是我今天要跟你點出的第一個重大的問題。","我要跟各位報告，我們自己都有小孩，小孩子跌倒受個小傷，我們都心痛得要命，今天馬來西亞這個女大生的媽媽講什麼？他說：不只我女兒是受害者，我也是。我唯一的女兒、完整的家都沒有了，每次來臺灣都是心理的虐待……女兒身上的傷是多心狠手辣的人才做得出來！請求臺灣司法給我公道跟正義。他還說：如果他當下一下子就斷氣死亡，沒有受到很大的痛苦，媽媽還可以接受。他已經卑微到這樣，但是他今天看到的是死者反抗，咬了被告，最後被暴力打到死亡。","這對父母來說是多麼傷痛的一件事，但是我們的司法卻沒有讓人家感覺到一點點溫暖。這讓家屬會有這種感覺：臺灣的司法並沒有給他們溫暖、臺灣的司法並沒有為他們伸張正義。更慘的是，更一審還是判死刑，到更二審，法官對被害人講的這段話連考量都不考量，就是摘要記載之後，轉為按憲判8，直接改判無期徒刑。等於是之前那些法官把遺屬說的這些話放入量刑考量，到更二審的時候卻被當做沒這回事，只為了迎合上意。這是我對本案感到難過的一個點。更二審完全不管了，就只是記載家屬說了哪些話。家屬說這些話為什麼不能被認為是量刑的重大考量？法官連講都沒講，就只是記載你講了什麼話，這是沒有任何意義的！","我再從比較法的觀點來跟你們提。加拿大的刑法Criminal Code第七百二十二條有講到一個，法院在下判決的時候，強制考量被害人聲明。它有這個制度存在，所以他必須要主動詢問檢察官，是不是已經給被害人準備聲明的機會。在加拿大，這是一個應考量的法定義務，但是在我們這裡，這只是法官的選擇，就像剛剛廳長說的，我們有要他們這麼做，但是他不要也沒事，因為沒有違背法令。廳長。"],["李副秘書長釱任：跟委員說明一下，事實上，在最近一個判決，我們可以看得出來，就是在臺中高分院更審的那個殺人案件，就是康建生技公司那個案件，那個法官在量刑的時候，有特別提出來，被害人因此所受的損害難以平復是他的量刑理由之一，所以有的裁判書的確會記載這一句……"],["吳委員宗憲：我知道，這是我跟廳長報告的，馬大生案的更一審也有，更二審不見了……"],["李副秘書長釱任：是，所以我們有注意到這一塊……"],["吳委員宗憲：我只希望把這個東西列入為制度，而不是看法官的心情或法官的個性，因為這對家屬不公平！我跟你講，一個家人被殺死，毀掉的是整個家庭，不是單一個人。我辦過的案子當中，一個獨子被打死，他的爸爸媽媽說，他們的人生也沒了！那一槍等於打死三個人，這是事實，大家會遇到。","因為二審如果沒有處理好，根本沒有辦法當作上訴三審的理由，三審是法律審，所以我今天是希望把這個部分列到制度裡面，由法律來規範賦予法官的義務。我沒有要求法官要全面接受被害人家屬的說法，但是法官不接受的理由要告訴大家，我們只是要求這樣，我沒有要去影響法官的判決，法官不採被害者家屬的說法，我都尊重，但是必須說明清楚，好不好？廳長，這個麻煩你們考量。"],["李副秘書長釱任：跟委員說明一下，刑法第五十七條有關量刑的相關應審酌事項包括被害人所受的損害，這些就是法院在量刑時應審酌的事項，法官一定會審酌，只是他有沒有寫在裁判書上面而已，應該是記載的問題，這個部分我們還是會宣導……"],["吳委員宗憲：我跟你講，你講的刑法第五十七條，我們當然知道，但是不管怎麼樣，我們已經讓家屬有說話的機會了，我們賦予他說話的機會，卻不要求法官對他說的話表示採或不採的意見，這樣就不對了！等於開了一扇門，但是後門又關起來，還是沒有意義……"],["李副秘書長釱任：委員講的，我是認同，我們會跟法官講再更進一步說理、這樣說理……"],["吳委員宗憲：好，我想這個部分我將來還是會提修正動議補上，我希望把它補上，變成是一個制度。我的修法方向不是要求被害人有主張的這個機會而已，我要求的是要讓這些家人、遺屬看得到法官到底是怎麼想、他採或不採的想法，因為法官如果連在判決書裡面交代他怎麼看待被害人痛苦的勇氣都沒有，司法院喊的「司法為民」就變成口號！這是我的一個想法。","再來，我想跟你提到的一個點就是量刑資訊系統的黑箱問題。雖然你們現在有用一個量刑因子的系統，對不對？但是我想到一個資料庫的問題，因為過往並沒有賦予法官要在判決裡面說明採或不採被害人家屬論述、聲明的義務，所以這個資料庫並沒有辦法完整的呈現這一塊，也就是過往的判決不需要說明被害者家屬有多痛苦但是不予採納為量刑的理由，過往的判決沒有這個義務，所以這個資料庫裡面是沒有辦法呈現這個的，資料庫裡面的所有量刑因子都是犯罪的客觀事實，有關被害人家屬多痛苦而放進量刑因子的這個，資料庫是沒有的，這會變成未來資料庫有一個大黑箱、一個大問題、一個漏洞在那裡，所以我要麻煩你們也要把這一塊列入參考，好不好？"],["李副秘書長釱任：謝謝委員的指教，對於事實型量刑資訊系統的精進，我們現在一直在做，也在做相關的改進，包括國法案件更細緻的量刑因子表，我們有再進一步……"],["吳委員宗憲：因為我看到高雄師鐸獎案、新北割喉案，法官在判決裡面都沒有去提到被害者家屬的心聲……"],["李副秘書長釱任：對，所以我們在新的修法，委員剛剛也提到過，第四百五十五條之四十八這個部分……"],["吳委員宗憲：好。還有一個，既然我們讓被害人家屬在訴訟參與上面有陪同權，我也想要麻煩一個點，就是陪同的這個部分是不是可以在子法上面明文化，讓家屬或者是陪同者更有跡可循到法庭能怎麼做或要服從什麼樣的規定？我沒有要在母法，但是子法可不可以麻煩你們處理一下？"],["李副秘書長釱任：也許我們會在注意事項……"],["吳委員宗憲：好，這個可以，我接受……"],["李副秘書長釱任：這個部分我們進一步來做處理，謝謝委員的指教。"],["吳委員宗憲：這個很重要。還有一個，就是家屬來發言的時候，他的個人資料等等，你們也要注意保密的部分，好不好？"],["李副秘書長釱任：這個部分我們沒有問題，對於相關證人、被害人，包括代理人，相關的個資部分，我們都是非常小心，這個部分我們會進一步再做處理。"],["吳委員宗憲：好。最後我想提一個點，我還是說教化可能性的問題，因為教化可能性一直是大家很爭議的、很有意見的。我跟你講我自己辦過的案子，我在士林地檢署曾經處理過一個被告，他來開庭的時候，文質彬彬，講話非常客氣、非常有道理，我看到警察的筆錄，一堆人說他這個人很可怕、動不動打人、動不動罵人，結果我們開庭的時候都覺得他很乖，根本就是一個模範的代表，後來有一天，我剛好帶朋友在士林夜市，看到他騎摩托車在裡面騷擾人，大呼小叫。也就是被告在開庭的時候是會表演的，所以動不動用被告在開庭的時候，或是他在教誨師面前，情緒是善意的、有悔意，來當作有教化可能的標準，我真的覺得不太能接受。因為我說真的，就大家講的，中華民國表演能力最強的是誰？兩種人，一個就是開庭的被告，另外一個是政客，就這兩種人最會表演。他們在開庭的時候，在我們的面前，就演一副乖乖牌的樣子，我想以這個來認為有教化可能性，大家都不能接受，所以這個我也是要麻煩你們注意一下，就教化可能性的部分，你要給社會大眾一個交代。","最後，法務部，我就列在上面給你們看，我希望你們不能都推給司法院，尤其是被害者陳述的部分，因為前端在法務部。麻煩你們注意一下，犯保要不要協助？檢察官要不要告知？法扶要不要協助處理？跨國被害人有沒有翻譯？重大刑案可不可以給一個固定窗口？你們可以會同犯保、法扶、最高檢還有司法院，我希望你們提出一個影響陳述的標準作業流程，SOP大概就是這五項，時間的關係，我就不念出來。","我真的是希望一個點，如果司法還有一點點溫暖，麻煩留給被害人，不是要留給被告，麻煩留給被害人。謝謝各位，辛苦各位！"],["主席：謝謝吳宗憲委員。接下來有請沈發惠委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":128,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-36-23","speakers":["翁曉玲","陳昭姿","吳宗憲","沈發惠","賴士葆","陳冠廷","林倩綺","許宇甄","林沛祥","張雅琳","莊瑞雄","范雲","蔡其昌","傅崐萁"],"page_start":57,"meetingDate":["2026-07-06"],"gazette_id":"1155901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155901_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第23次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院秘書長、法務部部長、財團法人法律扶助基金會、財團法人犯罪被害人保護協會針對\n「犯罪被害人訴訟參與制度之現況、檢討與精進」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1155901_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}