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我們剛剛有講 因為這個司法偵辦是屬於高檢署那我們就國安情報機關來講 我們大概是用情報來支援相關的一個反毒的查緝所以就是其實無時無刻都要協助嘛 對不對那一般來講 從場景上大家來談這樣的事情的時候通常都希望比如說情報 尤其是國安局這個層級可以掌握的情報 大概就是"},{"start":37.116,"end":64.072,"text":"可能是針對比較特殊的一個樣態嘛譬如說我們要了解現在台灣的毒品的狀況譬如說最近當然流行的喪屍煙彈 依托米紙這一部分請問它是一個這種個體去中心化的一個方式來在台灣蔓延呢還是說譬如說它有背後有一個特定的比如說跨國的毒梟或者特定的黑道在圍飾然後以至於我必須要用跨國聯合的情報跟跨國查緝的方式來做處理它比較屬於哪一種形態以關於目前的掌握這部分我們當然是從"},{"start":65.352,"end":84.337,"text":"國內的茶貨的這些毒品包括委員所提到的依托米子的狀況來做一些分析跟判斷那以成品來講大概是東南亞進來但是以先驅原料來講目前看到的特別是調查局的統計大概是從對岸中國大陸進來那因為它的先驅原料依托米子酸進來之後再重新做化學的加工組合它會變成所謂的喪屍煙彈或是水煙或電子煙"},{"start":89.318,"end":105.366,"text":"所以這一個的流入到反倒是目前可能社會大眾因為獨家問題所引發的關注你講的都是大家都知道的事情嘛但我要問的是這樣嘛就是說這背後這整個它是一個集團在操作嗎還是說它就是分散成很多小的各自的管道來處理"},{"start":108.508,"end":136.907,"text":"兩種都有可能啦你說它當然進來的管道有的是透過海貨運的一個夾帶那有的是透過國際郵報那看起來是零散的但你也不能排除背後是有一個集團在做全面的操作所以兩種途徑所以今天大家就講了國安局期待有角色嘛也就是說利用你的不管是國際上的共同打擊犯罪的情報之間的情報網路的合作或者是其他的部分來做更清楚的一個掌握那目前為止啊這件事情國安局掌握到什麼樣的程度可以跟大家做一下報告嗎"},{"start":137.547,"end":156.812,"text":"對,所以我們剛剛跟委員說明的就大概是在於說以中國大化來講它大概是第一個它是主要的那個先驅原料的一個來源嘛那第二個它的進來的管道大概有剛剛跟委員講的那兩種類型但是進來再往後追溯的話它涉及到中國大陸境內它相關法案罪集團的一個查查"},{"start":157.512,"end":182.954,"text":"那因為這一部分因為剛剛貂局也在說明我們把相關的資訊跟對岸來做通報對岸並沒有積極的回應所以利用這個機會呼應對岸應該要正視這個問題所以一時半刻恐怕也很難再往下踩下去意思是這樣子嗎對 在中國境內的管轄現在看起來 謝謝局長的說明這我們請法務部跟警政署我們就一起來看吧請法務部警政署"},{"start":184.073,"end":202.053,"text":"現在看起來在大家關心的喪屍煙彈依托彌子這樣的一個狀況以政府機關提供的相關報告跟資訊來說大體上就是原料走私然後在台製造大概是用這樣子的一個形式來做處理那講白了今天大家去談我們要怎麼樣去做打擊就是你能不能分別針對這兩條管道比如說"},{"start":203.795,"end":230.032,"text":"我用某一種特殊的手段我徹底禁絕了走私原料的各種可能性我讓你沒有原料當然就沒有製造的問題那另外一個是這個大家也知道嘛如果走私這麼好防堵啊今天社會會比想像中太平非常多但現實往往是比較殘酷一點的所以說走私很難完全杜絕的情況之下那當然就是你國內嘛我怎麼樣能夠把製造的管道跟它的通路把它通通掐斷現在我們的政府啊"},{"start":230.712,"end":249.982,"text":"誰回答都可以 因為這就各有各的分工管轄嘛 對不對我們現在是主要的主力是放在打擊走私原料還是說打擊國內製造分別做出什麼樣的成果那個委員好 跟委員報告吼調查局從去年到今年為止查獲的一坨米之類總共有22案"},{"start":251.055,"end":278.553,"text":"那他查物的方式呢有那個夾帶走私的有在國內製造的那類型部分旅客夾帶的有13案國內製造的有6案還有快遞包裹的有3案他的來源地呢成品的部分大部分馬來西亞有9件然後這個報告上的大家都看到了就不用多說了但是那個伊托彬子的原料真的都是來自於大陸的是啊那你打算怎麼防堵我要聽的是防堵的策略吧是"},{"start":279.193,"end":307.27,"text":"如果說伊托彬子這種先去原料部分我們只要有發舉就即時提報到獨省會來列管為第四級的毒品因為大陸對這些原料來講他說是用化學品來管制他不是毒品管制所以呢他們那邊取得非常容易那我們在獨省會提列為第四級毒品之後我們就會積極的配合海關還有海巡署各單位當我們這邊把他列為毒品之後正常管道他就不能進來了嘛對不對那我們有多大能耐完全封堵走失這條路目前成果怎麼樣"},{"start":308.272,"end":332.653,"text":"我們會積極的查辦 目前來講因為各種方式進來的管道非常的多然後只要我們申辦一個案子在媒體上有說明是用什麼方式查獲的話那毒梟那邊他們就會有各種不同的方式尤其剛才有在專題報告裡面有報告我們只要體列為第四級毒品的先驅原料大陸那邊就會馬上改變它的化學式我等一下要跟你討論這個事情就是說這個毒品列管空窗期的問題 這我們等一下來做說明"},{"start":333.874,"end":346.989,"text":"但看起來打擊走私 你也只能盡量去做嘛因為這個道高一尺 謀高一丈 這本席都理解那麼針對國內製造的部分呢國內製造的記住 警政署吧 會不會 是不是相關的目前打擊的狀況怎麼樣 有沒有具體的做法"},{"start":347.458,"end":373.829,"text":"我們在114年大概查緝的這些大概有一萬兩千多公斤那我們分裝廠大概我們最近大概伊多米子的分裝廠有八十幾處有八十幾處所以這個部分我們在查緝像獨駕的部分我們從5月24號到6月30號有關獨駕的部分我們就查緝了大概就4000多件那今年到1到5月份也確定了大概我們6730件這是"},{"start":376.71,"end":395.798,"text":"我們國內那查到以後啊就是溯源我們就會溯源那溯源這一部分就是我們最基本要做的看它的源頭還有銷售管道是如何這部分跟委員報告對啊我這邊資料嘛就是法務部長這個鄭明堅政部長講反毒活動的時候說近兩年啊查獲的毒品工廠216處其中188處跟伊托米茲有關嘛"},{"start":399.019,"end":416.702,"text":"所以這個顯然國內製造非常猖獗啦就如果你剛剛我先問了國安局然後我問了調查局對不對我是先問走私的部分我不管他源頭從哪裡來你有沒有辦法擋住聽起來顯然有一些困難對不對那國內製造的部分你要想辦法把它擋住那有多大的把握可以全面防堵還是說"},{"start":417.839,"end":443.943,"text":"事實上像高檢署高檢署在案機狀案裡面我們已經掃了13波那在高檢署啟動我們六大企圖機關裡面我們都全力在掃蕩所以這個部分事實上我們不管是掃蕩毒品一般原物料毒品或者是毒價的部分事實上我們現在目前都是全力在積極掃蕩這我理解但我也要跟這個幾位今天列席的所有官員來分享一下"},{"start":444.643,"end":468.534,"text":"這個大部分不管是民意調查也好網路調查各式各樣大家都覺得說對政府打擊毒品的信心是不足夠的那麼這個不足夠當然從人民的直接直觀反應來講就是因為罰太輕啊對不對那我今天也不會一開始上來我就講說我們只是只討論刑度的問題我一定是問你有沒有具體的方法今天如果我們政府機關非常厲害我有什麼樣特殊具體的能耐本事我可以遏制走私或者是我有什麼特殊的通天本領我可以"},{"start":469.555,"end":493.554,"text":"掐斷國內所有的製造那我們可以不討論刑罰對不對因為我們從源頭把它全面阻截但顯然你們都盡力了這個我都理解但是還是很困難所以還是要回頭來講大家去談說這個懲罰過輕啊嚇阻效度不足的問題包含最近毒價非常的猖獗現在還要講比如說這個毒價致死好了這個還要累翻致死才能夠處無期徒刑這樣子能夠滿足社會的期望嗎來法務部補充一下吧"},{"start":498.488,"end":523.143,"text":"跟委員報告 當然刑責不是說適合萬靈藥但是因為它既然列為第一級毒品 而且它現在危害性這麼重那我們當然希望能加重它的刑責所以我說就是不夠重嘛 對不對當然你講 你如果前面講說你有能耐這個打擊毒品 防治毒品的話你當然可以講刑度不是萬靈丹 這本席都理解 也願意尊重但顯然啊 要多管齊下嘛我們當然沒有講說你要把全部的力量放在走私就不管 至少不是的"},{"start":523.663,"end":553.246,"text":"你能夠用多大的力量打擊這些東西你就打擊嘛但是沒有辦法利有未待的部分你當然要靠處罰嘛所以我是認為這個刑度還是太輕了所以我希望法務部好好檢討這大概司法法治委員會還會經過這個仔細的一個討論我們就不多花時間在這邊那另外是剛剛您提到的就是說有關於這個這個發現一種公告一種的狀況嘛我們現在有某一種土品特別猖獗我們就把它等級往上調對不對等級往上調之後大家就整個相關的罰則跟查緝的力道也就會相應的來做增加但這畢竟是被動式回應嘛"},{"start":553.746,"end":580.038,"text":"我一定是看到哪一些很猖獗比如說依托彌子特別猖獗上次煙灘很猖獗我才把他升到一級毒品我們永遠都追在毒梟後面跑也不太對那也是您剛剛有講的嘛就是說今天大家說依托彌子很重要改一個化學式變一個分子式它會變成另外一種新的名詞那這個新的名詞又不在這個毒品範圍內我覺得空窗期是個大問題啦那現在法務部針對這個未來可能的變化因為你講道高一尺謀高於帳有沒有超前部署的各式各樣的措施跟安排"},{"start":580.798,"end":604.259,"text":"各位委員報告所以剛剛在報告裡面有提到有所謂的預警機制那只要它有改變化學式然後如果我們認為可列管可以作為毒品原料的話那你就會提報給獨省會嘛獨省會會在多短的時間內立刻反映獨省會是把它列為第四級的先驅原料但是呢如果還沒有列管之前呢那個預警平台目前已經有提列34種未列管的原料"},{"start":605.34,"end":618.434,"text":"讓我們積極來查辦我想這個相關的跨部會的合作跟速度跟反應一定要加快其他國家當然也有啦我是針對化學室來進行管制的嘛那當然化學室管制它可能會影響比如說相關的一些藥品或什麼它可能差一點點它會有這個"},{"start":620.416,"end":637.902,"text":"濫殺無辜的情況但是我覺得必要的時候非常的手段也是可以參考的啦希望政府在判斷這樣的事情的時候可以採取雷厲風情的這樣一個手段不管是加重罰則也好或者是針對這個可能的變形要做超前部署不要再讓打擊毒品陷入被動這是本期今天質詢給大家的提醒好 大家辛苦了 謝謝謝謝委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:10:50+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:10:51+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，國安局長有請。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-06T10:10:51+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:10:52+08:00","text":"請蔡局長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:10:52+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:10:53+08:00","text":"牛委員早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:10:53+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:10:54+08:00","text":"局長早安。","quality":0},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:10:50.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:10:53.243000+08:00","text":"現在毒品越來越猖獗，引起社會巨大的動盪，這算不算國安管轄的範圍之一？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:11:07.845000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:11:16.290000+08:00","text":"我們剛剛有講，因為司法偵辦是屬於高檢署，那就國安情報機關來講，我們大概是用情報來支援相關的反毒查緝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:11:16.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:11:18.131000+08:00","text":"所以其實無時無刻都要協助嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:11:18.431000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:11:19.051000+08:00","text":"對不對？對，是。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:11:19.051000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:11:39.583000+08:00","text":"那一般來講，從常理上大家來談這樣事情的時候，通常都希望比如說情報，尤其是國安局這個層級可以掌握的情報，大概可能是針對比較特殊的樣態，我們要了解現在臺灣的毒品狀況，比如最近很流行的喪屍煙彈、依托咪酯這一部分，請問它是一個個體去中心化的方式來在臺灣蔓延呢？","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:11:39.843000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:11:52.070000+08:00","text":"還是說它背後有一個特定的比如說跨國的毒梟或者說特定的黑道在圍事，以至於我必須要透過跨國聯合的情報跟跨國查緝的方式來做處理，它比較屬於哪一種型態？","quality":0.928},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:11:52.070000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:11:52.871000+08:00","text":"以國安局目前的掌握。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:11:53.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:12:09.156000+08:00","text":"這部分我們當然是從國內查獲的這些毒品，包括委員所提到依托咪酯的狀況來做一些分析跟判斷，以成品來講大概是東南亞進來，但是以先驅原料來講，目前看到的，特別是調查局的統計，大概是從對岸中國大陸進來。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:12:09.256000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:12:25.181000+08:00","text":"因為它的先驅原料依托咪酯酸進來之後，再重新做化學的加工組合，它會變成所謂的喪屍煙彈，或是水煙或電子煙，這一個的流入反倒是目前社會大眾因為毒駕問題所引發的……","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:12:25.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:12:27.602000+08:00","text":"你講的都是大家都知道的事情嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:12:27.862000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:12:32.685000+08:00","text":"但我要問的是說，這整個背後是一個集團在操作嗎？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:12:32.685000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:12:35.346000+08:00","text":"還是說它就是分散成很多小的，各自的管道來處理？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:12:38.508000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:12:52.257000+08:00","text":"目前看起來2種都有可能，你說它進來的管道，有的是透過海貨運的夾帶，有的是透過國際郵包，看起來是零散的，但你也不能排除背後是有一個集團在做全面的操作，所以這2種途徑……","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:12:52.257000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:12:54.418000+08:00","text":"所以今天大家就期待國安局有角色嘛！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:12:54.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:13:06.907000+08:00","text":"也就是利用你的……不管是國際上共同打擊犯罪的情報網絡合作，或者是其他的部分來做更清楚的掌握，那目前為止這件事情國安局掌握到什麼樣的程度，可以跟大家做一下報告嗎？","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:13:07.547000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:13:19.670000+08:00","text":"所以我們剛剛跟委員說明的大概是在於說，以中國大陸來講，第一個，它是主要的先驅原料來源，第二個，它進來的管道，大概有剛剛跟委員講的那2種類型……","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:13:19.670000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:13:20.670000+08:00","text":"你剛剛講的管道都是已知嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:13:20.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:13:35.119000+08:00","text":"但是再往後追溯的話，它涉及到中國大陸境內相關犯罪集團的查察，因為這一部分剛剛調查局也有說明，我們把相關的資訊跟對岸來做通報，對岸並沒有積極的回應，所以利用這個機會呼應對岸應該要正視這個問題。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:13:35.119000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:13:40.683000+08:00","text":"OK，所以一時半刻恐怕也很難再往下查下去，意思是這樣子嗎？","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:13:40.683000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:13:42.565000+08:00","text":"對，因為是中國境內的管轄。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:13:44.507000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:13:45.307000+08:00","text":"謝謝局長的說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:13:45.768000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:13:49.971000+08:00","text":"我們請法務部跟警政署，我們就一起來看吧！","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-06T10:13:52.093000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:13:52.934000+08:00","text":"請法務部、警政署。","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:13:54.073000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:14:06.387000+08:00","text":"現在看起來，大家關心的喪屍煙彈、依托咪酯這樣的狀況，以政府機關提供的相關報告跟資訊來說，大體上就是原料走私，然後在臺製造，大概是用這樣子的形式來做處理。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:14:07.028000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:14:18.718000+08:00","text":"那講白了，今天大家去談我們要怎麼樣去做打擊，就是你能不能分別針對這兩條管道，比如說我用某一種特殊的手段，澈底禁絕了走私原料的各種可能性，對不對？","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:14:19.319000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:14:21.760000+08:00","text":"我讓你沒有原料，當然就沒有製造的問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:14:21.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:14:23.461000+08:00","text":"另外，大家也知道嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:14:23.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:14:39.351000+08:00","text":"如果走私這麼好防堵，今天社會會比想像中太平非常多，但現實往往是比較殘酷一點的，所以在走私很難完全杜絕的情況之下，那當然就是國內我怎麼樣能夠把製造的管道跟通路通通掐斷。","quality":0.987},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:14:39.571000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:14:44.354000+08:00","text":"等一下你們誰來回答都可以，因為各有各的分工管轄，對不對？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:14:44.354000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:14:50.517000+08:00","text":"我們政府現在的主力是放在打擊走私原料，還是打擊國內製造，分別做出什麼樣的成果？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"連副局長震宗","start":"2026-07-06T10:14:53.038000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:14:53.218000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"連副局長震宗","start":"2026-07-06T10:14:53.378000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:15:17.005000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，調查局從去年到今年為止查獲的依托咪酯類總共有22案，查獲的方式有挾帶走私的，有在國內製造的；類型部分：旅客挾帶的有13案，國內製造的有6案，還有快遞包裹的有3案；其來源地，大部分的成品來自馬來西亞的有9件……","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:15:18.646000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:15:20.948000+08:00","text":"你這個在報告上大家都看得到，就不用再多說了。是。","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"連副局長震宗","start":"2026-07-06T10:15:21.988000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:15:25.150000+08:00","text":"但是依托咪酯的原料真的都來自於大陸。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:15:25.311000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:15:26.912000+08:00","text":"是，所以你打算怎麼防堵？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:15:27.052000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:15:28.032000+08:00","text":"我要聽的是防堵的策略。","quality":1},{"speaker":"連副局長震宗","start":"2026-07-06T10:15:29.633000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:15:35.377000+08:00","text":"像依托咪酯這種先驅原料的部分，我們只要有發覺就會即時提報到毒審會，列管為第四級的毒品。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"連副局長震宗","start":"2026-07-06T10:15:35.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:15:42.501000+08:00","text":"因為大陸對這些原料都是以化學品來管制，而不是以毒品在管制，所以在那邊取得非常容易。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"連副局長震宗","start":"2026-07-06T10:15:43.321000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:15:49.525000+08:00","text":"我們毒審會將之提列為第四級毒品之後就會積極配合海關還有海巡署各單位……","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:15:51.006000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:15:53.507000+08:00","text":"所以當我們這邊把它列為毒品之後，用正常管道他們就不能進來了嘛！","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:15:53.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:15:54.128000+08:00","text":"對不對？是。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:15:54.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:15:56.409000+08:00","text":"我們有多大的能耐完全封堵走私這條路？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:15:56.729000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:15:57.270000+08:00","text":"目前的成果怎麼樣？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"連副局長震宗","start":"2026-07-06T10:15:58.272000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:16:10.062000+08:00","text":"我們會積極地查辦，目前因為以各種方式進來的管道非常多，只要我們偵辦一個案子，在媒體上有說明是用什麼方式查獲的話，毒梟那邊就會採取各種不同的方式。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"連副局長震宗","start":"2026-07-06T10:16:10.222000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:16:18.269000+08:00","text":"尤其剛才在專題報告裡面有報告，我們只要提列為第四級毒品的先驅原料，大陸那邊就會馬上改變它的化學式，然後就會變成另外一種……","quality":0.804},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:16:19.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:16:22.633000+08:00","text":"對，等一下我會另外再跟你討論這個事情，也就是毒品列管空窗期的問題，請你們等一下來說明。是。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:16:23.994000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:16:29.941000+08:00","text":"看起來對打擊走私你們也只能儘量去做，因為這個是道高一尺、魔高一丈，這些本席都理解，那麼針對國內製造的部分呢？","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:16:31.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:16:36.268000+08:00","text":"例如緝毒的警政署是不是相關的……目前打擊的狀況怎麼樣？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:16:36.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:16:36.969000+08:00","text":"有沒有具體的作法？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"林副局長故廷","start":"2026-07-06T10:16:37.458000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:16:59.527000+08:00","text":"我們在114年大概查緝了一萬二千多公斤，依托咪酯的分裝廠最近大概查獲八十幾處，所以我們在查緝毒駕的部分，我們從5月24號到6月30號有關毒駕的部分就查緝了大概四千多件。","quality":0.817},{"speaker":"林副局長故廷","start":"2026-07-06T10:17:00.628000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:17:07.710000+08:00","text":"今年1月到5月確定的大概有6,730件，這是我們國內的部分。","quality":0.682},{"speaker":"林副局長故廷","start":"2026-07-06T10:17:07.971000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:17:17.935000+08:00","text":"查到以後我們就會溯源，也是我們最基本要做的部分，會看它的源頭還有銷售管道是如何，這部分就跟委員報告。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:17:18.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:17:31.222000+08:00","text":"對，我這邊的資料指出，法務部的鄭銘謙部長在反毒活動的時候說，近2年查獲的毒品工廠有216處，其中有188處跟依托咪酯有關，所以顯然國內製造非常猖獗。","quality":0.803},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:17:33.024000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:17:35.407000+08:00","text":"剛剛我先問了國安局，然後我也問了調查局，對不對？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:17:35.407000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:17:38.712000+08:00","text":"我是先問走私的部分，我不管它的源頭從哪裡來，你有沒有辦法把它擋住？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:17:39.272000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:17:41.355000+08:00","text":"聽起來顯然有一些困難，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:17:41.996000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:17:46.161000+08:00","text":"國內製造的部分，你要想辦法把它擋住，你有多大的把握可以全面防堵？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:17:46.682000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:17:46.702000+08:00","text":"還是說盡力而為？","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"林副局長故廷","start":"2026-07-06T10:17:47.839000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:18:07.737000+08:00","text":"事實上像高檢署在安居專案裡面我們已經掃了13波，在高檢署啟動六大緝毒機關裡面，我們是全力在掃蕩，所以這個部分我們不管是掃蕩毒品、毒品原物料，還是毒駕的部分，事實上我們目前都是全力在……","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:18:07.737000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:18:09.258000+08:00","text":"都在積極掃蕩。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林副局長故廷","start":"2026-07-06T10:18:09.258000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:18:09.258000+08:00","text":"都在積極掃蕩。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:18:09.258000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:18:23.867000+08:00","text":"這個我理解，我也要跟今天列席的所有官員分享一下，大部分不管是民意調查也好、網路調查還是各式各樣的調查，大家都對政府打擊毒品的信心是不足夠的，當然從人民直觀的反應來講，就是罰得太輕啊！","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:18:24.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:18:24.828000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:18:24.948000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:18:30.310000+08:00","text":"我今天也不是一開始上來就只討論刑度的問題，我一定是問你有沒有具體的方法？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:18:30.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:18:41.376000+08:00","text":"今天如果我們政府機關非常厲害，有什麼特殊、具體的能耐或本事可以遏止走私，或者我有什麼特殊的通天本領可以掐斷國內所有的製造，那我們可以不討論刑罰，對不對？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:18:41.376000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:18:52.865000+08:00","text":"因為可以從源頭把它全面阻絕，但顯然你們都盡力了，這個我也都理解，但也還是很困難，所以還是要回頭來講，大家去談懲罰過輕、嚇阻效果不足的問題。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:18:52.865000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:19:02.633000+08:00","text":"包含最近毒駕非常猖獗，現在還在講毒駕致死的，還要累犯致死才能處無期徒刑，這樣能夠滿足社會的期望嗎？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:19:02.633000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:19:03.534000+08:00","text":"請法務部補充一下吧！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"連副局長震宗","start":"2026-07-06T10:19:08.488000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:19:18.774000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，當然刑責不是萬靈藥，但是既然它被列為第一級毒品，而且它的危害性還這麼重，我們當然希望能加重它的刑責。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:19:18.774000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:19:20.695000+08:00","text":"所以我說就是不夠重，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:19:20.695000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:19:29.781000+08:00","text":"當然你前面如果講你有能耐打擊毒品、防制毒品的話，你當然可以講刑度不是萬靈丹，這些本席都理解，也願意尊重，但是顯然要多管齊下。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:19:30.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:19:36.565000+08:00","text":"我們當然沒有講你要把全部的力量放在走私而不管製造，不是的，你能夠用多大的力量打擊這些你就去打擊嘛！","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:19:36.986000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:19:39.808000+08:00","text":"但是對於沒有辦法、力有未逮的部分，你當然要靠處罰嘛！是。","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:19:40.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:19:47.173000+08:00","text":"所以我認為這個刑度還是太輕了，我希望法務部好好檢討，這個在司法及法制委員會還會經過仔細的討論，我們就不多花時間在這邊了。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:19:47.253000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:19:56.501000+08:00","text":"另外是剛剛您提到的，有關發現一種就公告一種的狀況，像是現在某一種毒品特別猖獗，我們就把它的等級往上調，對不對？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:19:56.501000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:20:11.590000+08:00","text":"等級往上調之後，相關的罰則跟查緝的力道就會相應地增加，但這畢竟是被動式的回應，我一定是看到哪一些毒品很猖獗，比如說依托咪酯特別猖獗、喪屍煙彈很猖獗，我才把它升級到第一級毒品，我們永遠都追在毒梟的後面跑也不太對。是。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:20:11.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:20:22.855000+08:00","text":"也是您剛才有講，今天大家認為依托咪酯很重要，我改一個化學式、變一個分子式，它又變成另外一種新的名詞，這個新的名詞又不在毒品的範圍內，我覺得空窗期是個大問題。","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:20:23.715000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:20:30.018000+08:00","text":"現在法務部針對未來可能的變化，就像你講的，道高一尺、魔高一丈，有沒有超前部署的各項措施跟安排？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"連副局長震宗","start":"2026-07-06T10:20:31.078000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:20:40.587000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，剛剛在報告裡面有提到所謂的預警機制，只要它有改變化學式，然後我們認為可以作為毒品原料的話……","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:20:40.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:20:41.748000+08:00","text":"你就會提報給毒審會嘛！對。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:20:42.989000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:20:44.350000+08:00","text":"毒審會會在多短的時間內立刻反應？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"連副局長震宗","start":"2026-07-06T10:20:45.431000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:20:57.062000+08:00","text":"毒審會是把它列為第四級毒品的先驅物原料，但是在還沒列管之前，那個預警平台目前已有提列34種未列管的原料讓我們積極查辦。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:20:57.062000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:21:00.826000+08:00","text":"好，我想相關跨部會的合作、速度跟反應一定要加快。是。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:21:01.747000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:21:04.410000+08:00","text":"其他國家當然也有，就是針對化學式的部分在進行管制。是。","quality":0.708},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:21:05.111000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:21:27.080000+08:00","text":"當然用化學式的管制可能就會影響到像是相關的藥品或是什麼，它可能就是差一點點，會有濫殺無辜的情況，但是我覺得必要的時候，非常手段也是可以參考的，希望政府在判斷這樣的事情時，可以採取雷厲風行的手段，不管是加重罰責也好，還是針對可能的變形要做超前部署，不要再讓打擊毒品陷入被動了，這是本席今天的質詢和給大家的提醒。","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2026-07-06T10:21:27.281000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:21:27.882000+08:00","text":"好，大家辛苦了，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"連副局長震宗","start":"2026-07-06T10:21:27.882000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:21:27.902000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。謝謝。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-06T10:21:28.402000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:21:32.116286+08:00","text":"接下來請王安祥委員上台質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":202,"blocks":[["牛委員煦庭：（10時10分）謝謝主席，國安局長有請。"],["主席：請蔡局長。"],["蔡局長明彥：牛委員早。"],["牛委員煦庭：局長早安。現在毒品越來越猖獗，引起社會巨大的動盪，這算不算國安管轄的範圍之一？"],["蔡局長明彥：我們剛剛有講，因為司法偵辦是屬於高檢署，那就國安情報機關來講，我們大概是用情報來支援相關的反毒查緝。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以其實無時無刻都要協助嘛！對不對？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，是。"],["牛委員煦庭：那一般來講，從常理上大家來談這樣事情的時候，通常都希望比如說情報，尤其是國安局這個層級可以掌握的情報，大概可能是針對比較特殊的樣態，我們要了解現在臺灣的毒品狀況，比如最近很流行的喪屍煙彈、依托咪酯這一部分，請問它是一個個體去中心化的方式來在臺灣蔓延呢？還是說它背後有一個特定的比如說跨國的毒梟或者說特定的黑道在圍事，以至於我必須要透過跨國聯合的情報跟跨國查緝的方式來做處理，它比較屬於哪一種型態？以國安局目前的掌握。"],["蔡局長明彥：這部分我們當然是從國內查獲的這些毒品，包括委員所提到依托咪酯的狀況來做一些分析跟判斷，以成品來講大概是東南亞進來，但是以先驅原料來講，目前看到的，特別是調查局的統計，大概是從對岸中國大陸進來。因為它的先驅原料依托咪酯酸進來之後，再重新做化學的加工組合，它會變成所謂的喪屍煙彈，或是水煙或電子煙，這一個的流入反倒是目前社會大眾因為毒駕問題所引發的……"],["牛委員煦庭：你講的都是大家都知道的事情嘛！但我要問的是說，這整個背後是一個集團在操作嗎？還是說它就是分散成很多小的，各自的管道來處理？"],["蔡局長明彥：目前看起來2種都有可能，你說它進來的管道，有的是透過海貨運的夾帶，有的是透過國際郵包，看起來是零散的，但你也不能排除背後是有一個集團在做全面的操作，所以這2種途徑……"],["牛委員煦庭：所以今天大家就期待國安局有角色嘛！也就是利用你的……不管是國際上共同打擊犯罪的情報網絡合作，或者是其他的部分來做更清楚的掌握，那目前為止這件事情國安局掌握到什麼樣的程度，可以跟大家做一下報告嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：所以我們剛剛跟委員說明的大概是在於說，以中國大陸來講，第一個，它是主要的先驅原料來源，第二個，它進來的管道，大概有剛剛跟委員講的那2種類型……"],["牛委員煦庭：你剛剛講的管道都是已知嘛！"],["蔡局長明彥：但是再往後追溯的話，它涉及到中國大陸境內相關犯罪集團的查察，因為這一部分剛剛調查局也有說明，我們把相關的資訊跟對岸來做通報，對岸並沒有積極的回應，所以利用這個機會呼應對岸應該要正視這個問題。"],["牛委員煦庭：OK，所以一時半刻恐怕也很難再往下查下去，意思是這樣子嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，因為是中國境內的管轄。"],["牛委員煦庭：謝謝局長的說明。","我們請法務部跟警政署，我們就一起來看吧！"],["主席：請法務部、警政署。"],["牛委員煦庭：現在看起來，大家關心的喪屍煙彈、依托咪酯這樣的狀況，以政府機關提供的相關報告跟資訊來說，大體上就是原料走私，然後在臺製造，大概是用這樣子的形式來做處理。那講白了，今天大家去談我們要怎麼樣去做打擊，就是你能不能分別針對這兩條管道，比如說我用某一種特殊的手段，澈底禁絕了走私原料的各種可能性，對不對？我讓你沒有原料，當然就沒有製造的問題。另外，大家也知道嘛！如果走私這麼好防堵，今天社會會比想像中太平非常多，但現實往往是比較殘酷一點的，所以在走私很難完全杜絕的情況之下，那當然就是國內我怎麼樣能夠把製造的管道跟通路通通掐斷。等一下你們誰來回答都可以，因為各有各的分工管轄，對不對？我們政府現在的主力是放在打擊走私原料，還是打擊國內製造，分別做出什麼樣的成果？"],["連副局長震宗：委員好。跟委員報告，調查局從去年到今年為止查獲的依托咪酯類總共有22案，查獲的方式有挾帶走私的，有在國內製造的；類型部分：旅客挾帶的有13案，國內製造的有6案，還有快遞包裹的有3案；其來源地，大部分的成品來自馬來西亞的有9件……"],["牛委員煦庭：你這個在報告上大家都看得到，就不用再多說了。"],["連副局長震宗：是。但是依托咪酯的原料真的都來自於大陸。"],["牛委員煦庭：是，所以你打算怎麼防堵？我要聽的是防堵的策略。"],["連副局長震宗：像依托咪酯這種先驅原料的部分，我們只要有發覺就會即時提報到毒審會，列管為第四級的毒品。因為大陸對這些原料都是以化學品來管制，而不是以毒品在管制，所以在那邊取得非常容易。我們毒審會將之提列為第四級毒品之後就會積極配合海關還有海巡署各單位……"],["牛委員煦庭：所以當我們這邊把它列為毒品之後，用正常管道他們就不能進來了嘛！對不對？"],["連副局長震宗：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：我們有多大的能耐完全封堵走私這條路？目前的成果怎麼樣？"],["連副局長震宗：我們會積極地查辦，目前因為以各種方式進來的管道非常多，只要我們偵辦一個案子，在媒體上有說明是用什麼方式查獲的話，毒梟那邊就會採取各種不同的方式。尤其剛才在專題報告裡面有報告，我們只要提列為第四級毒品的先驅原料，大陸那邊就會馬上改變它的化學式，然後就會變成另外一種……"],["牛委員煦庭：對，等一下我會另外再跟你討論這個事情，也就是毒品列管空窗期的問題，請你們等一下來說明。"],["連副局長震宗：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：看起來對打擊走私你們也只能儘量去做，因為這個是道高一尺、魔高一丈，這些本席都理解，那麼針對國內製造的部分呢？例如緝毒的警政署是不是相關的……目前打擊的狀況怎麼樣？有沒有具體的作法？"],["林副局長故廷：我們在114年大概查緝了一萬二千多公斤，依托咪酯的分裝廠最近大概查獲八十幾處，所以我們在查緝毒駕的部分，我們從5月24號到6月30號有關毒駕的部分就查緝了大概四千多件。今年1月到5月確定的大概有6,730件，這是我們國內的部分。查到以後我們就會溯源，也是我們最基本要做的部分，會看它的源頭還有銷售管道是如何，這部分就跟委員報告。"],["牛委員煦庭：對，我這邊的資料指出，法務部的鄭銘謙部長在反毒活動的時候說，近2年查獲的毒品工廠有216處，其中有188處跟依托咪酯有關，所以顯然國內製造非常猖獗。剛剛我先問了國安局，然後我也問了調查局，對不對？我是先問走私的部分，我不管它的源頭從哪裡來，你有沒有辦法把它擋住？聽起來顯然有一些困難，對不對？國內製造的部分，你要想辦法把它擋住，你有多大的把握可以全面防堵？還是說盡力而為？"],["林副局長故廷：事實上像高檢署在安居專案裡面我們已經掃了13波，在高檢署啟動六大緝毒機關裡面，我們是全力在掃蕩，所以這個部分我們不管是掃蕩毒品、毒品原物料，還是毒駕的部分，事實上我們目前都是全力在……"],["牛委員煦庭：都在積極掃蕩。"],["林副局長故廷：都在積極掃蕩。"],["牛委員煦庭：這個我理解，我也要跟今天列席的所有官員分享一下，大部分不管是民意調查也好、網路調查還是各式各樣的調查，大家都對政府打擊毒品的信心是不足夠的，當然從人民直觀的反應來講，就是罰得太輕啊！對不對？我今天也不是一開始上來就只討論刑度的問題，我一定是問你有沒有具體的方法？今天如果我們政府機關非常厲害，有什麼特殊、具體的能耐或本事可以遏止走私，或者我有什麼特殊的通天本領可以掐斷國內所有的製造，那我們可以不討論刑罰，對不對？因為可以從源頭把它全面阻絕，但顯然你們都盡力了，這個我也都理解，但也還是很困難，所以還是要回頭來講，大家去談懲罰過輕、嚇阻效果不足的問題。包含最近毒駕非常猖獗，現在還在講毒駕致死的，還要累犯致死才能處無期徒刑，這樣能夠滿足社會的期望嗎？請法務部補充一下吧！"],["連副局長震宗：跟委員報告，當然刑責不是萬靈藥，但是既然它被列為第一級毒品，而且它的危害性還這麼重，我們當然希望能加重它的刑責。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以我說就是不夠重，對不對？當然你前面如果講你有能耐打擊毒品、防制毒品的話，你當然可以講刑度不是萬靈丹，這些本席都理解，也願意尊重，但是顯然要多管齊下。我們當然沒有講你要把全部的力量放在走私而不管製造，不是的，你能夠用多大的力量打擊這些你就去打擊嘛！但是對於沒有辦法、力有未逮的部分，你當然要靠處罰嘛！"],["連副局長震宗：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以我認為這個刑度還是太輕了，我希望法務部好好檢討，這個在司法及法制委員會還會經過仔細的討論，我們就不多花時間在這邊了。","另外是剛剛您提到的，有關發現一種就公告一種的狀況，像是現在某一種毒品特別猖獗，我們就把它的等級往上調，對不對？等級往上調之後，相關的罰則跟查緝的力道就會相應地增加，但這畢竟是被動式的回應，我一定是看到哪一些毒品很猖獗，比如說依托咪酯特別猖獗、喪屍煙彈很猖獗，我才把它升級到第一級毒品，我們永遠都追在毒梟的後面跑也不太對。"],["連副局長震宗：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：也是您剛才有講，今天大家認為依托咪酯很重要，我改一個化學式、變一個分子式，它又變成另外一種新的名詞，這個新的名詞又不在毒品的範圍內，我覺得空窗期是個大問題。現在法務部針對未來可能的變化，就像你講的，道高一尺、魔高一丈，有沒有超前部署的各項措施跟安排？"],["連副局長震宗：跟委員報告，剛剛在報告裡面有提到所謂的預警機制，只要它有改變化學式，然後我們認為可以作為毒品原料的話……"],["牛委員煦庭：你就會提報給毒審會嘛！"],["連副局長震宗：對。"],["牛委員煦庭：毒審會會在多短的時間內立刻反應？"],["連副局長震宗：毒審會是把它列為第四級毒品的先驅物原料，但是在還沒列管之前，那個預警平台目前已有提列34種未列管的原料讓我們積極查辦。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，我想相關跨部會的合作、速度跟反應一定要加快。"],["連副局長震宗：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：其他國家當然也有，就是針對化學式的部分在進行管制。"],["連副局長震宗：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：當然用化學式的管制可能就會影響到像是相關的藥品或是什麼，它可能就是差一點點，會有濫殺無辜的情況，但是我覺得必要的時候，非常手段也是可以參考的，希望政府在判斷這樣的事情時，可以採取雷厲風行的手段，不管是加重罰責也好，還是針對可能的變形要做超前部署，不要再讓打擊毒品陷入被動了，這是本席今天的質詢和給大家的提醒。好，大家辛苦了，謝謝。"],["連副局長震宗：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來請王安祥委員上台質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":56,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-35-25","speakers":["馬文君","沈伯洋","陳俊宇","羅美玲","陳永康","林楚茵","牛煦庭","王安祥","王義川","徐巧芯","黃建賓","賴士葆","陳冠廷","王定宇","黃仁","吳宗憲","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2026-07-06"],"gazette_id":"1155901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第25次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥、內政部、法務部報告「新興毒品走私之國安情資整合與跨國緝毒協\n同作為」，併請海洋委員會海巡署、財政部關務署、國防部憲兵指揮部列席，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1155901_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}