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大家都非常關注因為最近獨駕的事件 造成國人非常大的關注另外 因為教育部不在我想在校園流竄的部分 尤其我們都是在學校教書"},{"start":28.348,"end":36.894,"text":"發覺要趕快來做一些處理所以今天特別把這個層次拉到國安局希望國安局來做一些統整也就是說我們看起來這個問題現在也是視同是國安的問題因為一開始我們從源頭開始看"},{"start":44.338,"end":71.52,"text":"總統國安局的報告裡面我們看到很多原料其實來自於中國當然我們跟中國特殊的關係處理起來就會稍微麻煩一點而且剛剛也有其他委員在問就是它的化學式、結構式它常常會做一些改變國安局針對這個部分尤其是從中國可能未來走勢的部分這個部分國安局這邊營業的策略是什麼"},{"start":72.654,"end":87.533,"text":"這部分跟委員說明一下事實上政府整體的反毒的查緝是由檢方高檢署在指揮的那我們畢竟是情報機關所以我一直在說明的是我們是用情報的角度來支援政府相關的反毒跟查緝的動作這大概是第一點的說明"},{"start":87.873,"end":102.489,"text":"那委員剛剛的問題主要重點是在於說中國大陸已經變成是很多毒品先驅原料的來源那這部分也跟其他委員在說明的時候有做一些補充也就是以目前社會關注的伊托米子它的先驅原料伊托米子酸確實是從中國大陸來的"},{"start":103.991,"end":122.718,"text":"那剛剛調查局也在說明我們有相關的一個資訊也有跟對岸來做一些通報但是對岸並沒有積極的來做回應跟處理所以這塊怎麼樣在兩岸共打的部分針對毒品的部分也希望對岸能夠正視這個問題的嚴重性那對於我們的一些通報的一個需求也能夠有一些積極的動作來回應"},{"start":124.359,"end":141.184,"text":"所以這邊也是希望能夠跟經濟一些所謂的情報的一些來源那另外你們這邊的報告裡面有三大管道不管是海空貨運或是船隻或是包裹不曉得這個部分國安局介入這個所謂情勢的部分可能的部分大概會怎麼樣來處理"},{"start":142.284,"end":157.161,"text":"事實上因為現在社會比較關注那我們在處理這件事情我們必須要釐清楚我們自己本局的法律定位所以剛剛一直在說明偵辦的部分是由高檢署來指揮懂的部分是從情報分享的角度"},{"start":157.521,"end":176.793,"text":"所以我們事前也有召開一個會議啦針對我們國安情報單位裡面具有司法警察權的這包括有調查局還有警政署還有海巡署以及我們的縣指部那我們有做一些基本這種目前毒品流入的樣態跟大家做說明報告之後來做一些專責的分工"},{"start":177.774,"end":204.78,"text":"所以你就那個調局來講他可能在各個關口或是各種的一個查驗他要扮演其他的角色那檢證署他可能對於各機場或是港口的這種夾帶他也必須要負起查查的動作那海巡當然是對於海域或岸際的走私的查緝那我們縣指部當然是對於軍中毒品的一個流通那也必須要有一些具體的動作所以關局是統合我們11個情報機關裡面具有司法警察權剛剛跟委員報告的四個單位"},{"start":205.66,"end":232.688,"text":"來做一些統合跟分工因為我們今天討論新興毒品我們現在當然看到上次宣傳是其中一種不過現在歐盟他們每年通報他們大概都會到40到100種左右所以我的意思是說現在真的就毒品的防治來說情資其實非常重要不管是從前端或是後端我們剛剛講的大概都是前端後端的部分我看到國安局的報告裡面其實有講了很多剛剛我聽到其他委員也特別在講所謂的"},{"start":234.328,"end":251.301,"text":"這個暗網的這個科技徵收我覺得這個部分很重要局長是不是要再跟我們說一下因為過去好像都是由刑事局那邊有一個科技犯罪的防御器來處理就是這樣子怎麼做協作或是做一些統合會就刑事局來講當然他們有相關的一個徵收的技巧好像都是他們在處理嘛"},{"start":252.102,"end":260.948,"text":"那本局這邊因為在資訊、科技、資安的技術也相當有能量啦是是是大概也會做一些相關的部署畢竟案文裡面它能...對,因為那個很難查嘛"},{"start":267.752,"end":291.874,"text":"你透過我們涉及到你能不能取得進入暗網的身份那第二個你在暗網討論的身份也不一定是你的真實身份那可是他在上面又會有一些情資的流通那這部分我們就會透過一些科技徵收的經驗累積做一些判斷那有比較具體事證的我們就會轉交給司法巡視機關我覺得國安局介入是會比傳統刑事局這個層次更高一層就是可以針對這個跟暗網對我們是一個團隊"},{"start":294.356,"end":316.452,"text":"那另外就是那個國際協作啦不曉得這個部分國安局能夠掌握的因為很多我知道都剛剛說都是像中國這些原料的國家不曉得那個國際協作上那個局長覺得應該要怎麼樣處理會比較好有國際協作的部分因為調查局他在海外本來就有法務秘書的建制都有一個網絡來跟當地的司法檢查機關做一些資訊的分享"},{"start":317.293,"end":335.074,"text":"那就國安局的部分我們也跟各國的安全情報機構也都有非常緊密的合作所以我們也透過國際合作部分有去進行一些國際反毒的工作的會議來邀請我們國安情報單位緝毒的單位一起來參加這些國際工作坊研討"},{"start":337.056,"end":366.105,"text":"國際在案件相關的分析以及在相關毒品流入的一個最新的質詢是是 所以我也特別提醒因為這個跟很多金融 價率貨幣都會有關係我想這個部分也多一點所以多一些協作我想對於防止這種毒品的流竄可能會很幫助有 謝謝委員提醒好 感謝局長那接下來是不是警政署這邊好 請警政署還是內政部局長可以先休息"},{"start":374.915,"end":389.089,"text":"主席好 委員好好 早今天早上新聞可能有掌握好像有基層的員警對茶系度假有一些聲音出來說他們好像都有過勞的現象布雅集團署這邊的看法是怎麼樣"},{"start":390.995,"end":410.353,"text":"檢證署我們在制定整個企圖的作業程序我們是要求說在企圖的過程裡面我們修了兩次就是從有快篩唾液的部分開始下來以後怎麼樣讓這個因為我們的唾液快篩大概在實驗室它Base Rate大概50-50的話大概是96%"},{"start":413.476,"end":432.712,"text":"那我們在意的是同仁的執法程序執法程序因為現在事實上我們沒有說在績效要立我們是啟動全國一定要去做那各分局各分局還有各警察局在要求這個作業程序裡面我想我們現在的作業啊都只是獎勵沒有懲罰"},{"start":434.153,"end":451.529,"text":"所以這部分我還是要呼籲在整個領導統一各方面都還是要理性我知道其實大家都很辛苦我也沒有苛責任何一個人的狀況不過因為我長期從事勞動的研究我當然希望大家工作上還是要保持身心的平衡"},{"start":452.37,"end":476.251,"text":"所以我想今天媒體爆出來希望警政署這邊還是要做一些了解那到底是什麼樣的問題是不是可以讓這個事情能夠平和我們也希望這個毒品的查緝能夠持續下去當然我們不希望基層員警因為這個事情而造成他們一些不管是生活或者是工作的壓力"},{"start":477.712,"end":495.903,"text":"警政署OK吧可以沒問題我們現在勤務作業幾乎都是用鼓勵的方式是是是不過我想報道應該是副局長可以再去了解一下我希望這個事情能夠非常平順的一個可以把它解決是好謝謝委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-06T10:21:47+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:21:49.024250+08:00","text":"主席好，有請國安局局長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-06T10:21:49.024250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:21:51.048500+08:00","text":"請蔡局長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:21:51.048500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:21:53.072750+08:00","text":"王委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-06T10:21:53.072750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:21:55.097000+08:00","text":"局長早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-06T10:21:55.097000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:22:05.207000+08:00","text":"我想今天做這個專報，大家都非常關注，因為最近毒駕的事件造成國人非常大的關注。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-06T10:22:06.127000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:22:23.233000+08:00","text":"另外因為今天教育部不在，我想在校園流竄的部分，尤其我們也都是在學校教書的，這個問題我們也發覺要趕快做一些處理，所以今天才特別把這個層次拉到國安局，希望國安局來做一些統整，也就是說，這個問題看起來已視同國安的問題了。","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-06T10:22:23.573000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:22:58.520000+08:00","text":"我們從源頭開始看，從國安局的報告裡面，我們看到很多原料其實是來自中國，當然我們跟中國有特殊的關係，這個處理起來就會稍微麻煩一點，而且剛剛也有其他委員在問，就是它的化學式、結構式常常會做一些改變，不曉得國安局針對這個部分，尤其是從中國走私過來的部分，你們因應的策略是什麼？","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:22:59.654000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:23:14.513000+08:00","text":"這部分跟委員說明一下，事實上政府整體反毒的查緝是由檢方──高檢署在指揮，我們畢竟是情報機關，所以我一直在說明的是，我們是用情報的角度在支援政府在反毒跟查緝的相關工作，這大概是第一點的說明。是。","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:23:14.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:23:24.264000+08:00","text":"委員剛剛的問題主要是在，中國大陸已經變成是很多毒品先驅原料的來源，這部分跟其他委員說明的時候也有做一些補充。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:23:24.964000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:23:49.718000+08:00","text":"也就是，以目前社會關注的依托咪酯的先驅原料──依托咪酯酸確實是從中國大陸來的，剛剛調查局也說明，我們針對相關的資訊也有跟對岸通報，但是對岸並沒有積極地回應跟處理，所以這一塊要怎麼樣在兩岸共打上，針對毒品的部分，希望對岸能重視這個問題的嚴重性，對於我們通報的需求也能有積極的回應。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-06T10:23:51.359000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:23:55.220000+08:00","text":"對，所以這邊也是希望能夠更精進一些所謂的情報。對。","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-06T10:23:56+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:24:08.164000+08:00","text":"另外，在你們的報告裡面有三大管道，不管是海、空貨運或是船隻、包裹，不曉得這個部分國安局介入情資的部分大概會怎麼處理？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:24:09.284000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:24:21.618000+08:00","text":"事實上因為現在社會比較關注，我們在處理這件事情上必須釐清本局的法律定位，所以我剛剛一直說明，偵辦的部分是由高檢署在指揮的。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-06T10:24:21.618000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:24:22.618000+08:00","text":"是，了解。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:24:21.798000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:24:43.773000+08:00","text":"我的部分是從情報分享的角度，所以我們事前也召開過一個會議，針對國安情報單位裡面具有司法警察權的，包括調查局還有警政署還有海巡署以及我們的憲指部，我們有針對目前毒品的流入有做一些基本的樣態，跟大家說明和報告之後，就會做一些專責的分工。是。","quality":0.845},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:24:44.774000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:24:58.077000+08:00","text":"所以就調查局來講，可能在各個關口，或是各種查驗上就要扮演起它的角色，警政署可能對於各機場，或是港口的挾帶也必須負起查察的動作。","quality":0.845},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:24:58.477000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:25:13.560000+08:00","text":"海巡當然是對於海域或岸際走私的查緝，我們憲指部當然是對於軍中毒品的流通也必須要有一些具體的動作，所以國安局是統合我們11個情報機關裡面具有司法警察權的，剛剛跟委員報告的4個單位來做一些統合跟分工。了解。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-06T10:25:14.381000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:25:30.665000+08:00","text":"局長，因為我們今天討論的是新興毒品，我們剛才看到的喪屍煙彈是其中一種，不過現在歐盟每年通報大概都會有40到100種左右，所以我的意思是說，現在真的就毒品防制來說，情資其實非常重要，不管是從前端或是後端。是。","quality":0.843},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-06T10:25:31.565000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:25:45.412000+08:00","text":"我們剛剛講的大概都是前端，後端的部分，我看到國安局的報告裡面其實也講了很多，剛剛我聽到其他委員也特別在講所謂暗網的科技偵搜，我覺得這個部分很重要，局長是不是要再跟我們說一下？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-06T10:25:45.752000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:25:49.154000+08:00","text":"因為過去好像都是由刑事局那邊有一個科技犯罪防制中心來處理。","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:25:49.154000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:25:50.155000+08:00","text":"有，他們有。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-06T10:25:50.155000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:25:51.856000+08:00","text":"這樣子怎麼做協作或是做一些統合？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:25:53.338000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:25:56.580000+08:00","text":"會，就刑事局來講，當然他們有相關的偵搜技巧……","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-06T10:25:56.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:25:58.121000+08:00","text":"對，好像都是他們在處理。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:25:59.302000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:26:05.987000+08:00","text":"有，本局這邊因為在資訊、科技、資安技術也相當有能量，所以我們大概也會做一些……","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-06T10:26:05.987000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:26:06.987000+08:00","text":"是，會介入。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:26:06.667000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:26:07.247000+08:00","text":"對，會做一些相關的部署，畢竟暗網裡面……","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-06T10:26:07.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:26:14.993000+08:00","text":"因為那個很難查，以過去經驗來說……","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:26:15.313000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:26:33.209000+08:00","text":"因為它可能會涉及到你能不能取得進入暗網的身分；第二個，你在暗網討論的身分也不一定是你的真實身分，可是他在上面又會有一些情資的流通，這部分我們就會透過一些科技偵搜的經驗累積做一些判斷，有比較具體事證的，我們就會轉交給司法檢察機關。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-06T10:26:33.209000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:26:38.714000+08:00","text":"我覺得國安局介入會比傳統刑事局的層次更高一層，就是可以針對剛剛講的暗網……","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:26:38.714000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:26:38.874000+08:00","text":"對，我們是一個團隊。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-06T10:26:41.456000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:26:54.546000+08:00","text":"另外就是國際協作，不曉得這個部分國安局能夠掌握的是……因為我知道很多就像剛剛說的像中國這些原料的國家，不曉得在國際協作上，局長覺得應該要怎麼樣處理會比較好？","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:26:55.206000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:27:28.998000+08:00","text":"國際協作的部分，因為調查局在海外本來就有法務秘書的建置，所以有一個網絡來跟當地的司法檢察機關做一些資訊的分享，就國安局的部分，我們也跟各國的安全情報機構都有非常緊密的合作，所以我們也透過國際合作部分有去進行一些國際反毒的工作會議，來邀請我們國安、情報單位、緝毒單位一起來參加這些國際工作坊的研討，來了解國際在案件相關的分析以及在相關毒品流入的最新資訊，這部分我們也會……","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-06T10:27:29.818000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:27:38.420000+08:00","text":"是，所以我也特別提醒，因為這個跟很多金融、加密貨幣都會有關係，我想這個部分也多一點……","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:27:38.420000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:27:39.420000+08:00","text":"剛剛書面報告有提到……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-06T10:27:38.981000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:27:44.182000+08:00","text":"對，多一些協作，我認為對於防止毒品的流竄可能會很幫助。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:27:44.362000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:27:45.022000+08:00","text":"有，謝謝委員提醒。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-06T10:27:45.203000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:27:51.164000+08:00","text":"感謝局長，接下來是警政署還是內政部？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-06T10:27:51.164000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:27:52.165000+08:00","text":"請警政署。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-06T10:27:52.165000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:27:53.085000+08:00","text":"局長可以先休息。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林副局長故廷","start":"2026-07-06T10:28:01.915000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:28:03.156000+08:00","text":"主席好、委員好。好，早。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-06T10:28:03.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:28:16.089000+08:00","text":"今天早上的新聞可能有掌握啦，好像有基層員警對查緝毒駕有一些聲音出來，說他們好像都有過勞的現象，不曉得警政署這邊的看法是怎麼樣？","quality":0.814},{"speaker":"林副局長故廷","start":"2026-07-06T10:28:17.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:28:43.138000+08:00","text":"我想警政署在制定整個緝毒的作業程序，我們是要求在緝毒的過程，我們修了兩次，就是從有快篩唾液的部分開始下來以後，怎麼樣讓這個……因為我們的唾液快篩在實驗室base rate若是50、50的話，準確率大概是96%，我們在意的是同仁的執法程序啦。是。","quality":0.837},{"speaker":"林副局長故廷","start":"2026-07-06T10:28:44.199000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:29:06.118000+08:00","text":"有關執法程序，因為現在事實上我們沒有說有績效壓力，我們是啟動全國一定要去做，各分局還有各警察局在要求這個作業程序時，我們現在的作業都只是獎勵，沒有懲罰，所以這部分我還是要呼籲，在整個領導統御各方面都還是要理性啦！","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-06T10:29:07.019000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:29:18.509000+08:00","text":"是啦，因為我知道其實大家都很辛苦，我也沒有苛責任何一個人的狀況，不過因為我長期從事勞動研究，我當然希望大家工作上還是要保持身心的平衡。是。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-06T10:29:19.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:29:24.535000+08:00","text":"所以我想今天媒體報出來，希望警政署還是要做一些……","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"林副局長故廷","start":"2026-07-06T10:29:24.535000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:29:26.957000+08:00","text":"是，這我們會來處理……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-06T10:29:26.957000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:29:32.762000+08:00","text":"看看到底是什麼樣的問題，是不是可以讓這個事情能夠平和地解決？","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-06T10:29:32.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:29:45.373000+08:00","text":"我們也希望毒品的查緝能夠持續下去，當然我們不希望基層員警因為這個事情而造成他們一些不管是生活或者是工作的壓力，警政署OK吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林副局長故廷","start":"2026-07-06T10:29:45.973000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:29:49.155000+08:00","text":"可以、沒問題，我們現在勤務作業幾乎都是用鼓勵的方式。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-06T10:29:49.655000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:29:51.636000+08:00","text":"是，不過我想那個報導……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"林副局長故廷","start":"2026-07-06T10:29:51.636000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:29:51.636000+08:00","text":"我知道。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-06T10:29:52.797000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:30:01.722000+08:00","text":"應該是副局長，可以再去了解一下，我希望這個事情能夠非常平順的把它解決。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林副局長故廷","start":"2026-07-06T10:30:01.722000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:30:02.903000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-07-06T10:30:03.403000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:30:04.831571+08:00","text":"好，感謝。謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-06T10:30:05.131571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:30:09.417286+08:00","text":"接下來我們請王義川委員上臺質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":260,"blocks":[["王委員安祥：（10時21分）主席好，有請國安局局長。"],["主席：請蔡局長。"],["蔡局長明彥：王委員好。"],["王委員安祥：局長早。我想今天做這個專報，大家都非常關注，因為最近毒駕的事件造成國人非常大的關注。另外因為今天教育部不在，我想在校園流竄的部分，尤其我們也都是在學校教書的，這個問題我們也發覺要趕快做一些處理，所以今天才特別把這個層次拉到國安局，希望國安局來做一些統整，也就是說，這個問題看起來已視同國安的問題了。","我們從源頭開始看，從國安局的報告裡面，我們看到很多原料其實是來自中國，當然我們跟中國有特殊的關係，這個處理起來就會稍微麻煩一點，而且剛剛也有其他委員在問，就是它的化學式、結構式常常會做一些改變，不曉得國安局針對這個部分，尤其是從中國走私過來的部分，你們因應的策略是什麼？"],["蔡局長明彥：這部分跟委員說明一下，事實上政府整體反毒的查緝是由檢方──高檢署在指揮，我們畢竟是情報機關，所以我一直在說明的是，我們是用情報的角度在支援政府在反毒跟查緝的相關工作，這大概是第一點的說明。"],["王委員安祥：是。"],["蔡局長明彥：委員剛剛的問題主要是在，中國大陸已經變成是很多毒品先驅原料的來源，這部分跟其他委員說明的時候也有做一些補充。也就是，以目前社會關注的依托咪酯的先驅原料──依托咪酯酸確實是從中國大陸來的，剛剛調查局也說明，我們針對相關的資訊也有跟對岸通報，但是對岸並沒有積極地回應跟處理，所以這一塊要怎麼樣在兩岸共打上，針對毒品的部分，希望對岸能重視這個問題的嚴重性，對於我們通報的需求也能有積極的回應。"],["王委員安祥：對，所以這邊也是希望能夠更精進一些所謂的情報。"],["蔡局長明彥：對。"],["王委員安祥：另外，在你們的報告裡面有三大管道，不管是海、空貨運或是船隻、包裹，不曉得這個部分國安局介入情資的部分大概會怎麼處理？"],["蔡局長明彥：事實上因為現在社會比較關注，我們在處理這件事情上必須釐清本局的法律定位，所以我剛剛一直說明，偵辦的部分是由高檢署在指揮的。"],["王委員安祥：是，了解。"],["蔡局長明彥：我的部分是從情報分享的角度，所以我們事前也召開過一個會議，針對國安情報單位裡面具有司法警察權的，包括調查局還有警政署還有海巡署以及我們的憲指部，我們有針對目前毒品的流入有做一些基本的樣態，跟大家說明和報告之後，就會做一些專責的分工。"],["王委員安祥：是。"],["蔡局長明彥：所以就調查局來講，可能在各個關口，或是各種查驗上就要扮演起它的角色，警政署可能對於各機場，或是港口的挾帶也必須負起查察的動作。海巡當然是對於海域或岸際走私的查緝，我們憲指部當然是對於軍中毒品的流通也必須要有一些具體的動作，所以國安局是統合我們11個情報機關裡面具有司法警察權的，剛剛跟委員報告的4個單位來做一些統合跟分工。"],["王委員安祥：了解。局長，因為我們今天討論的是新興毒品，我們剛才看到的喪屍煙彈是其中一種，不過現在歐盟每年通報大概都會有40到100種左右，所以我的意思是說，現在真的就毒品防制來說，情資其實非常重要，不管是從前端或是後端。"],["蔡局長明彥：是。"],["王委員安祥：我們剛剛講的大概都是前端，後端的部分，我看到國安局的報告裡面其實也講了很多，剛剛我聽到其他委員也特別在講所謂暗網的科技偵搜，我覺得這個部分很重要，局長是不是要再跟我們說一下？因為過去好像都是由刑事局那邊有一個科技犯罪防制中心來處理。"],["蔡局長明彥：有，他們有。"],["王委員安祥：這樣子怎麼做協作或是做一些統合？"],["蔡局長明彥：會，就刑事局來講，當然他們有相關的偵搜技巧……"],["王委員安祥：對，好像都是他們在處理。"],["蔡局長明彥：有，本局這邊因為在資訊、科技、資安技術也相當有能量，所以我們大概也會做一些……"],["王委員安祥：是，會介入。"],["蔡局長明彥：對，會做一些相關的部署，畢竟暗網裡面……"],["王委員安祥：因為那個很難查，以過去經驗來說……"],["蔡局長明彥：因為它可能會涉及到你能不能取得進入暗網的身分；第二個，你在暗網討論的身分也不一定是你的真實身分，可是他在上面又會有一些情資的流通，這部分我們就會透過一些科技偵搜的經驗累積做一些判斷，有比較具體事證的，我們就會轉交給司法檢察機關。"],["王委員安祥：我覺得國安局介入會比傳統刑事局的層次更高一層，就是可以針對剛剛講的暗網……"],["蔡局長明彥：對，我們是一個團隊。"],["王委員安祥：另外就是國際協作，不曉得這個部分國安局能夠掌握的是……因為我知道很多就像剛剛說的像中國這些原料的國家，不曉得在國際協作上，局長覺得應該要怎麼樣處理會比較好？"],["蔡局長明彥：國際協作的部分，因為調查局在海外本來就有法務秘書的建置，所以有一個網絡來跟當地的司法檢察機關做一些資訊的分享，就國安局的部分，我們也跟各國的安全情報機構都有非常緊密的合作，所以我們也透過國際合作部分有去進行一些國際反毒的工作會議，來邀請我們國安、情報單位、緝毒單位一起來參加這些國際工作坊的研討，來了解國際在案件相關的分析以及在相關毒品流入的最新資訊，這部分我們也會……"],["王委員安祥：是，所以我也特別提醒，因為這個跟很多金融、加密貨幣都會有關係，我想這個部分也多一點……"],["蔡局長明彥：剛剛書面報告有提到……"],["王委員安祥：對，多一些協作，我認為對於防止毒品的流竄可能會很幫助。"],["蔡局長明彥：有，謝謝委員提醒。"],["王委員安祥：感謝局長，接下來是警政署還是內政部？"],["主席：請警政署。"],["王委員安祥：局長可以先休息。"],["林副局長故廷：主席好、委員好。"],["王委員安祥：好，早。今天早上的新聞可能有掌握啦，好像有基層員警對查緝毒駕有一些聲音出來，說他們好像都有過勞的現象，不曉得警政署這邊的看法是怎麼樣？"],["林副局長故廷：我想警政署在制定整個緝毒的作業程序，我們是要求在緝毒的過程，我們修了兩次，就是從有快篩唾液的部分開始下來以後，怎麼樣讓這個……因為我們的唾液快篩在實驗室base rate若是50、50的話，準確率大概是96%，我們在意的是同仁的執法程序啦。"],["王委員安祥：是。"],["林副局長故廷：有關執法程序，因為現在事實上我們沒有說有績效壓力，我們是啟動全國一定要去做，各分局還有各警察局在要求這個作業程序時，我們現在的作業都只是獎勵，沒有懲罰，所以這部分我還是要呼籲，在整個領導統御各方面都還是要理性啦！"],["王委員安祥：是啦，因為我知道其實大家都很辛苦，我也沒有苛責任何一個人的狀況，不過因為我長期從事勞動研究，我當然希望大家工作上還是要保持身心的平衡。"],["林副局長故廷：是。"],["王委員安祥：所以我想今天媒體報出來，希望警政署還是要做一些……"],["林副局長故廷：是，這我們會來處理……"],["王委員安祥：看看到底是什麼樣的問題，是不是可以讓這個事情能夠平和地解決？我們也希望毒品的查緝能夠持續下去，當然我們不希望基層員警因為這個事情而造成他們一些不管是生活或者是工作的壓力，警政署OK吧？"],["林副局長故廷：可以、沒問題，我們現在勤務作業幾乎都是用鼓勵的方式。"],["王委員安祥：是，不過我想那個報導……"],["林副局長故廷：我知道。"],["王委員安祥：應該是副局長，可以再去了解一下，我希望這個事情能夠非常平順的把它解決。"],["林副局長故廷：是，謝謝委員。"],["王委員安祥：好，感謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來我們請王義川委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":56,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-35-25","speakers":["馬文君","沈伯洋","陳俊宇","羅美玲","陳永康","林楚茵","牛煦庭","王安祥","王義川","徐巧芯","黃建賓","賴士葆","陳冠廷","王定宇","黃仁","吳宗憲","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2026-07-06"],"gazette_id":"1155901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第25次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥、內政部、法務部報告「新興毒品走私之國安情資整合與跨國緝毒協\n同作為」，併請海洋委員會海巡署、財政部關務署、國防部憲兵指揮部列席，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1155901_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}