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不需要這樣"},{"start":150.236,"end":164.196,"text":"在美國的死刑案件他除了這有罪無罪罪包括是要不要亮出死刑這個是由陪審團來亮那個決定那在台灣的話包括有期徒刑的部分都是由職業法官跟國民法官一起來決定"},{"start":166.755,"end":184.034,"text":"這個你們要去注意這個啦我是覺得這裡面判下來的結果其實外界現在大家沒有那麼注意但是我覺得這是個題目這是個題目跟委員報告一下這是個題目我們現在還沒有看到真理的喔如果看到真理的請問他的案子有沒有錯誤"},{"start":185.353,"end":200.669,"text":"案件也是抽籤的啊?也算抽籤的那個國民法官的產生是透過兩次的...我不是講那個我說那個案情比如說殺人犯罪有沒有經過有沒有可能國民法官有參與重大的犯罪"},{"start":201.229,"end":202.53,"text":"所以國民法官就是沒有任何的"},{"start":221.002,"end":233.192,"text":"限制就對了有限制它的適用法條就是因犯故意犯罪而致人有發生死亡結果的案件例如說不能安全駕駛先造成死亡結果這個我了解請你去注意一下這個的制度走法我們陳孝平委員會有固定在沒有準備把它走成美國的這個變成陪審團制度沒有"},{"start":244.401,"end":267.706,"text":"因為這是完全不同的體系喔我們是大陸體系對不對他們是海洋體系海洋體系配成團像香港那個是海洋體系的配成團大陸體系你現在是國民法官喔好你請回我請一下法務部的這個次長啊以及法護基金會的董事長莊董事長"},{"start":276.006,"end":278.587,"text":"來 中國髮鬍基金會一年得拿政府多少錢啊15億左右喔外界對你們 你們覺得自己的表現怎麼樣呢外界對你們評價怎麼樣我覺得 外界對髮鬍的評價"},{"start":296.311,"end":309.899,"text":"越來越好越來越好可是因為我們受委託的案子越來越多幾乎都沒有減少的時候現在我把它查了一下外界對你們的評價"},{"start":312.068,"end":339.261,"text":"正面我就不講了 正面你自己講負面的就是第一個審查門檻過嚴格第二個律師酬勞偏低大概一個案子只有3萬左右第三個假法服這個情況你要怎麼回應怎麼避免假法服特別是我現在就因為我時間關係我就不問這些了我主要跟你講外界最有意見的是什麼"},{"start":341.104,"end":356.694,"text":"用政府的錢幫詐欺犯打官司這個是最有意見這裡面的詐欺犯佔了將近三成 26-28%這一部分你們怎麼對外界講就是現在來講的話 比如說對我來講 我開過公聽會"},{"start":360.598,"end":381.687,"text":"那個老是 退休的老是被騙了 夫妻被騙了一兩千萬 憾死這個詐欺犯了又拿不回來 開共聽會 其實屬於明白表示拿不回來結果這種情況之下 你們還花錢 花政府的錢去幫他打官司 外界很有意見啦 你很有意見這個詐欺犯的事情"},{"start":384.098,"end":394.351,"text":"對於詐欺犯我先講這一點對詐欺犯提供辯護其實我們的法湖律師也是很無奈不得已的他們也不是很愛去辯這方面的但是因為什麼"},{"start":397.778,"end":421.824,"text":"恍而我們這些的被告,詐欺的被告幾乎大部分還無資歷呢就是你抓到的,在我們國內抓到的大部分車所還有一些身心障礙的或者是說他本身就是缺錢用的都是被詐騙集團吸收的大部分年輕人或怎麼樣結果他們被抓到的時候一連串的,這些查都沒有資歷"},{"start":423.104,"end":432.348,"text":"好啦 我就提醒你注意這個事情啦可以詐欺犯 辯護外界是很有意見的啦這個市長 市長 我一個最後的問題市長 我跟你市長講一下現在講 酒駕 獨駕都家中行車現在有一個東西 一個題目跑出來了 要駕"},{"start":443.797,"end":446.4,"text":"藥價 吃藥的藥 吃藥的藥這裡面藥呢 其實幾乎幾乎啊 上了一定年紀以上的人幾乎都會吃藥嘛第一期是什麼 降血壓的藥"},{"start":458.021,"end":470.207,"text":"有時候吃到肚子痠痠啊 頭痠痠啊第二級抗憂鬱藥降血糖的藥 多數人在吃啊第三級是危險級的才是比較屬於安眠藥這方面的現在法務部有沒有初步的"},{"start":474.349,"end":490.83,"text":"一個看法因為最近酒駕毒駕大家都討論很多但是藥駕開始討論出來的法務部的立場是什麼對藥駕跟委員報告我們的那個法條規定是說行為人士用毒品麻醉藥品或其他相類之物那就是藥駕"},{"start":493.033,"end":515.967,"text":"對,然後就是說如果說他的尿液跟血液檢驗達到我們行政院公告的濃度以上就會可能會構成185條之三第一項第三款的一個規定那如果說就算沒有達到公告那也要看那個個案中是不是已經造成了有具體上不能安全駕駛因為我們那個條文是重點是在不能安全駕駛我們會做實務上的一個做一個判斷"},{"start":517.288,"end":522.896,"text":"可是當事人可能不了解啊我感冒吃個感冒藥它裡面有含這個成分就吐洪洪塞一下就出問題就變成這樣啊我們那個就是說其他鄉類植物還要到那個就是血液檢驗的那個濃度的話"},{"start":532.711,"end":561.69,"text":"大概不會是感冒藥就達得到啦所以目前法務部還沒有準備要提案修法對於藥價把它加進來沒有目前那個其他相類之物已經可以包括在這裡所以其他的已經包括藥我覺得那一部分可以把它特別標啦比如說我們對於藥第三級的危險級吃了安眠藥請你也不要開車你這樣講這部分再看看怎麼討論你們去研究一下謝謝"},{"start":562.714,"end":562.735,"text":"好"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:25:26.140000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:25:31.001000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請司法院李副秘書長。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-06T10:25:31.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:25:31.042000+08:00","text":"請李副秘。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T10:25:31.302000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:25:31.482000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:25:32.122000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:25:32.122000+08:00","text":"副秘好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:25:32.362000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:25:57.556000+08:00","text":"我先請教，國外有陪審團，我們是用國民法官來取代，2023年上路了，到目前為止，國民法官可以參與審判、定罪嗎？是。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:25:57.556000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:25:58.557000+08:00","text":"國外陪審團不是喔。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:26:00.038000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:26:09.046000+08:00","text":"國外陪審團就是決定被告guilty或not guilty，然後由法官決定量刑；我們的國民法官可以參與要判幾年，有這樣子嗎？","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T10:26:10.047000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:26:18.313000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告一下，我們的國民法官制度主要是參酌日本的裁判員制度，我們採取的是合審合判的制度。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:26:18.773000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:26:20.775000+08:00","text":"是，所以他就變法官了嘛。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T10:26:20.915000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:26:35.025000+08:00","text":"對，他是國民法官，所以有6位國民法官跟3位職業法官合審合辦，包括事實認定、法律、量刑，這些都是合在一起的。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:26:36.586000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:26:39.829000+08:00","text":"問題是國民法官有這樣的法學素養嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:26:39.829000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:26:48.456000+08:00","text":"他會知道該判幾年，要四年比較好、三年比較好，還是幾年比較好，有這樣的程度嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T10:26:48.456000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:27:10.934000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明一下，對於國民法官制度，我們原先也擔心國民法官認為自己是不是對於法律的素養不足、對事實的認定不夠，事實上，我們希望把多元的事實認定、感情帶到審判案件來，所以對案件應該怎麼判，我們會提供量刑行情給他們。","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:27:12.075000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:27:16.619000+08:00","text":"到現在為止，國民法官參與審判的案件有幾案？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T10:27:18.803000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:27:21.244000+08:00","text":"我記得現在已經好像有一百多件了。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:27:21.464000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:27:22.985000+08:00","text":"一百多件？對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:27:22.985000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:27:25.346000+08:00","text":"你們從專業角度覺得怎麼樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T10:27:25.346000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:27:27.827000+08:00","text":"我覺得目前來講在……好嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:27:27.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:27:29.848000+08:00","text":"你們覺得可以接受嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T10:27:30.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:27:34.390000+08:00","text":"就我自己的感覺，我覺得這個制度是可以繼續走下去的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:27:34.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:27:37.352000+08:00","text":"繼續走下去，不需要走向美國那裡？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T10:27:37.352000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:27:38.352000+08:00","text":"對，不需要。","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:27:37.352000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:27:43.995000+08:00","text":"就是國民法官只是決定guilty or not guilty，然後由法官來專業認定，不需要這樣？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T10:27:45.436000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:27:59.176000+08:00","text":"美國的死刑案件除了有罪、無罪之外，還包括要不要量處死刑，這個是由陪審團來決定；在臺灣的話，包括有期徒刑的部分，都是由職業法官跟國民法官一起來決定。","quality":0.924},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:28:01.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:28:12.307000+08:00","text":"你們要去注意這個，我覺得這裡面判下來的結果其實外界……現在大家沒有那麼注意，但是我覺得這是個題目，這是個題目。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T10:28:12.767000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:28:14.229000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告一下，我們……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:28:14.930000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:28:18.754000+08:00","text":"你們現在還沒有碰到爭議的，如果碰到爭議的，請問他的案子怎麼抽？","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T10:28:20.353000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:28:21.074000+08:00","text":"案件也是抽籤的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:28:21.474000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:28:21.935000+08:00","text":"也是用抽籤的？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T10:28:22.595000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:28:24.557000+08:00","text":"國民法官的產生是透過兩次的隨機篩選……","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:28:25.258000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:28:34.888000+08:00","text":"我不是講那個，我是說案型，比如殺人犯罪有沒有可能國民法官也參與？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:28:34.888000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:28:35.649000+08:00","text":"重大的犯罪有沒有？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T10:28:35.649000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:28:36.649000+08:00","text":"我說明一下，國民法官法規定有兩種案件要進到國民法官，就是因故意犯罪而造成死亡結果的案件，今年1月1日開始，包括最輕本刑十年以上的案件都是屬於國民法官適用的案件，所以現在的案件是擴大的，我們大概預期……","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:28:36.229000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:28:57.423000+08:00","text":"所以國民法官就是沒有任何的限制就對了，是不是？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T10:28:57.804000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:29:06.010000+08:00","text":"有限制，他的適用法條就是因故意犯罪而發生死亡結果的案件，例如不能安全駕駛造成死亡結果、十年以上的貪污案件……","quality":0.796},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:29:06.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:29:06.751000+08:00","text":"這個我了解，請你去注意一下這個制度的走法。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T10:29:06.771000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:29:07.391000+08:00","text":"是，我們成效評估委員會有固定在……","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:29:07.411000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:29:08.172000+08:00","text":"沒有準備走成美國的制度，變成陪審團制度，沒有？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"李副秘書長釱任","start":"2026-07-06T10:29:08.172000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:29:19.401000+08:00","text":"沒有，目前我們在成效……","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:29:19.401000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:29:25.262000+08:00","text":"因為這是完全不同的體系，我們是大陸體系，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:29:25.262000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:29:26.342000+08:00","text":"他們是海洋體系。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:29:27.003000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:29:33.824000+08:00","text":"海洋體系的陪審團，像香港是海洋體系的陪審團制度；大陸體系，現在就是國民法官。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:29:35.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:29:52.327000+08:00","text":"接下來我請教法務部次長及法扶基金會莊董事長，法扶基金會一年都拿政府多少錢？","quality":0.771},{"speaker":"莊董事長秋桃","start":"2026-07-06T10:29:52.387000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:29:52.467000+08:00","text":"15億左右。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:29:52.467000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:29:53.467000+08:00","text":"15億左右。","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:29:52.627000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:29:52.827000+08:00","text":"你們覺得自己的表現怎麼樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:29:52.927000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:29:53.107000+08:00","text":"外界對你們的評價怎麼樣？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"莊董事長秋桃","start":"2026-07-06T10:29:53.107000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:30:11.791000+08:00","text":"我覺得外界對法扶的評價越來越好。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:30:12.572000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:30:14.173000+08:00","text":"越來越好，可是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊董事長秋桃","start":"2026-07-06T10:30:14.673000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:30:20.056000+08:00","text":"因為我們受委託的案子越來越多，幾乎都沒有減少的時候。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:30:20.737000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:30:47.858000+08:00","text":"現在我查了一下，外界對你們的評價，正面的我就不講了，你自己講，至於負面的，第一個，審查門檻過於嚴格；第二個，律師酬勞偏低，大概一個案子只有3萬左右；第三個，對於假法扶的情況，你要怎麼回應、怎麼避免假法扶？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:30:49.699000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:30:51.419000+08:00","text":"因為時間關係，我就不問這些了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:30:51.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:30:54.261000+08:00","text":"我主要跟你講，外界最有意見的是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:30:56.104000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:31:10.573000+08:00","text":"就是用政府的錢幫詐欺犯打官司，這個是最有意見的，這裡面的詐欺犯占了將近三成，26%到28%，這部分你們怎麼對外界講？","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:31:10.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:31:36.667000+08:00","text":"現在對我來講，我開過公聽會，退休的老師夫妻被騙了一、兩千萬，恨死這個詐欺犯了，錢又拿不回來，開公聽會，警政署也明白表示錢拿不回來，結果這種情況之下，你們還花政府的錢去幫詐欺犯打官司，外界很有意見，你回應一下這個詐欺犯的事情。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"莊董事長秋桃","start":"2026-07-06T10:31:39.839000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:31:49.351000+08:00","text":"我先講這點，對詐欺犯提供辯護，其實我們法扶律師也是很無奈、不得已的，他們也不是很愛去辯這方面的，但是因為什麼？","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"莊董事長秋桃","start":"2026-07-06T10:31:52.778000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:32:16.824000+08:00","text":"反而這些詐欺的被告幾乎大部分都是無資力的，在我們國內抓到的，譬如車手、身心障礙者，還有本身就缺錢用的，都是被詐騙集團吸收的年輕人或怎麼樣，結果他們被抓到的時候一連串查下來都沒有資力……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:32:18.104000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:32:24.327000+08:00","text":"好啦，我就提醒你注意這個事情，替詐欺犯辯護外界很有意見！","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:32:24.787000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:32:38.857000+08:00","text":"次長，我最後一個問題，次長，我跟你講一下，目前講酒駕、毒駕都加重刑責，現在有一個題目跑出來了，藥駕，吃藥的藥！","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:32:39.057000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:32:41.340000+08:00","text":"關於這裡面的藥，其實一定年紀以上的人幾乎都會吃藥，第一級是什麼？","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:32:41.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:33:04.507000+08:00","text":"降血壓的藥，有的吃了就暈暈的、頭暈暈的；第二級是抗憂鬱藥、降血糖的藥，這有多少人在吃；第三級是危險級的，才是比較屬於安眠藥這方面的。","quality":0.776},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:33:04.687000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:33:10.110000+08:00","text":"現在法務部有沒有初步的看法？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:33:10.371000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:33:19.903000+08:00","text":"因為最近酒駕、毒駕大家都討論很多，但是藥駕開始討論出來了，法務部對藥駕的立場是什麼？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-07-06T10:33:19.903000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:33:25.330000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們的法條規定是，行為人施用毒品、麻醉藥品或其他相類之物。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:33:25.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:33:25.830000+08:00","text":"那就是藥駕，是不是？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-07-06T10:33:28.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:33:50.967000+08:00","text":"對，如果他的尿液跟血液檢驗達到行政院公告的濃度以上就可能會構成第一百八十五條之三第一項第三款的規定；就算沒有達到公告值，那也要看個案中是不是已經造成了具體上不能安全駕駛，因為我們那個條文的重點是在不能安全駕駛，我們會做實務上的判斷……","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:33:52.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:33:57.295000+08:00","text":"可是當事人可能不了解，他感冒吃個感冒藥，結果裡面有含這個成分就頭暈暈的，開車出問題，就變成這樣！","quality":0.791},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-07-06T10:33:57.496000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:34:09.692000+08:00","text":"其他相類之物要達到血液檢驗濃度的話，大概不會是感冒藥就達得到……","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:34:10.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:34:15.756000+08:00","text":"所以目前法務部還沒有準備要提案修法把藥駕加進來？沒有？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-07-06T10:34:16.157000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:34:19.759000+08:00","text":"目前其他相類之物已經可以包括在內。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:34:20.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:34:21.460000+08:00","text":"所以其他的已經包括藥？對！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:34:21.460000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:34:33.348000+08:00","text":"我覺得那一部分可以把它特別標啦，譬如說針對第三級、危險級的藥，吃了安眠藥請你也不要開車，比如這樣講。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-07-06T10:34:33.348000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:34:34.969000+08:00","text":"是，我們這部分再看看怎麼妥適去做。","quality":0.533},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2026-07-06T10:34:34.969000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:34:36.690000+08:00","text":"你們去研究一下，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-06T10:34:37.190000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:34:38.618571+08:00","text":"謝謝賴委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-06T10:34:38.918571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:34:42.918571+08:00","text":"接下來我們有請陳冠廷委員發言。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":585,"blocks":[["賴委員士葆：（10時25分）謝謝主席，有請司法院李副秘書長。"],["主席：請李副秘。"],["李副秘書長釱任：委員好。"],["賴委員士葆：副秘好。我先請教，國外有陪審團，我們是用國民法官來取代，2023年上路了，到目前為止，國民法官可以參與審判、定罪嗎？"],["李副秘書長釱任：是。"],["賴委員士葆：國外陪審團不是喔。國外陪審團就是決定被告guilty或not guilty，然後由法官決定量刑；我們的國民法官可以參與要判幾年，有這樣子嗎？"],["李副秘書長釱任：跟委員報告一下，我們的國民法官制度主要是參酌日本的裁判員制度，我們採取的是合審合判的制度。"],["賴委員士葆：是，所以他就變法官了嘛。"],["李副秘書長釱任：對，他是國民法官，所以有6位國民法官跟3位職業法官合審合辦，包括事實認定、法律、量刑，這些都是合在一起的。"],["賴委員士葆：問題是國民法官有這樣的法學素養嗎？他會知道該判幾年，要四年比較好、三年比較好，還是幾年比較好，有這樣的程度嗎？"],["李副秘書長釱任：跟委員說明一下，對於國民法官制度，我們原先也擔心國民法官認為自己是不是對於法律的素養不足、對事實的認定不夠，事實上，我們希望把多元的事實認定、感情帶到審判案件來，所以對案件應該怎麼判，我們會提供量刑行情給他們。"],["賴委員士葆：到現在為止，國民法官參與審判的案件有幾案？"],["李副秘書長釱任：我記得現在已經好像有一百多件了。"],["賴委員士葆：一百多件？"],["李副秘書長釱任：對。"],["賴委員士葆：你們從專業角度覺得怎麼樣？"],["李副秘書長釱任：我覺得目前來講在……"],["賴委員士葆：好嗎？你們覺得可以接受嗎？"],["李副秘書長釱任：就我自己的感覺，我覺得這個制度是可以繼續走下去的。"],["賴委員士葆：繼續走下去，不需要走向美國那裡？"],["李副秘書長釱任：對，不需要。"],["賴委員士葆：就是國民法官只是決定guilty or not guilty，然後由法官來專業認定，不需要這樣？"],["李副秘書長釱任：美國的死刑案件除了有罪、無罪之外，還包括要不要量處死刑，這個是由陪審團來決定；在臺灣的話，包括有期徒刑的部分，都是由職業法官跟國民法官一起來決定。"],["賴委員士葆：你們要去注意這個，我覺得這裡面判下來的結果其實外界……現在大家沒有那麼注意，但是我覺得這是個題目，這是個題目。"],["李副秘書長釱任：跟委員報告一下，我們……"],["賴委員士葆：你們現在還沒有碰到爭議的，如果碰到爭議的，請問他的案子怎麼抽？"],["李副秘書長釱任：案件也是抽籤的。"],["賴委員士葆：也是用抽籤的？"],["李副秘書長釱任：國民法官的產生是透過兩次的隨機篩選……"],["賴委員士葆：我不是講那個，我是說案型，比如殺人犯罪有沒有可能國民法官也參與？重大的犯罪有沒有？"],["李副秘書長釱任：我說明一下，國民法官法規定有兩種案件要進到國民法官，就是因故意犯罪而造成死亡結果的案件，今年1月1日開始，包括最輕本刑十年以上的案件都是屬於國民法官適用的案件，所以現在的案件是擴大的，我們大概預期……"],["賴委員士葆：所以國民法官就是沒有任何的限制就對了，是不是？"],["李副秘書長釱任：有限制，他的適用法條就是因故意犯罪而發生死亡結果的案件，例如不能安全駕駛造成死亡結果、十年以上的貪污案件……"],["賴委員士葆：這個我了解，請你去注意一下這個制度的走法。"],["李副秘書長釱任：是，我們成效評估委員會有固定在……"],["賴委員士葆：沒有準備走成美國的制度，變成陪審團制度，沒有？"],["李副秘書長釱任：沒有，目前我們在成效……"],["賴委員士葆：因為這是完全不同的體系，我們是大陸體系，對不對？他們是海洋體系。海洋體系的陪審團，像香港是海洋體系的陪審團制度；大陸體系，現在就是國民法官。","接下來我請教法務部次長及法扶基金會莊董事長，法扶基金會一年都拿政府多少錢？"],["莊董事長秋桃：15億左右。"],["賴委員士葆：15億左右。你們覺得自己的表現怎麼樣？外界對你們的評價怎麼樣？"],["莊董事長秋桃：我覺得外界對法扶的評價越來越好。"],["賴委員士葆：越來越好，可是……"],["莊董事長秋桃：因為我們受委託的案子越來越多，幾乎都沒有減少的時候。"],["賴委員士葆：現在我查了一下，外界對你們的評價，正面的我就不講了，你自己講，至於負面的，第一個，審查門檻過於嚴格；第二個，律師酬勞偏低，大概一個案子只有3萬左右；第三個，對於假法扶的情況，你要怎麼回應、怎麼避免假法扶？因為時間關係，我就不問這些了。","我主要跟你講，外界最有意見的是什麼？就是用政府的錢幫詐欺犯打官司，這個是最有意見的，這裡面的詐欺犯占了將近三成，26%到28%，這部分你們怎麼對外界講？現在對我來講，我開過公聽會，退休的老師夫妻被騙了一、兩千萬，恨死這個詐欺犯了，錢又拿不回來，開公聽會，警政署也明白表示錢拿不回來，結果這種情況之下，你們還花政府的錢去幫詐欺犯打官司，外界很有意見，你回應一下這個詐欺犯的事情。"],["莊董事長秋桃：我先講這點，對詐欺犯提供辯護，其實我們法扶律師也是很無奈、不得已的，他們也不是很愛去辯這方面的，但是因為什麼？反而這些詐欺的被告幾乎大部分都是無資力的，在我們國內抓到的，譬如車手、身心障礙者，還有本身就缺錢用的，都是被詐騙集團吸收的年輕人或怎麼樣，結果他們被抓到的時候一連串查下來都沒有資力……"],["賴委員士葆：好啦，我就提醒你注意這個事情，替詐欺犯辯護外界很有意見！","次長，我最後一個問題，次長，我跟你講一下，目前講酒駕、毒駕都加重刑責，現在有一個題目跑出來了，藥駕，吃藥的藥！關於這裡面的藥，其實一定年紀以上的人幾乎都會吃藥，第一級是什麼？降血壓的藥，有的吃了就暈暈的、頭暈暈的；第二級是抗憂鬱藥、降血糖的藥，這有多少人在吃；第三級是危險級的，才是比較屬於安眠藥這方面的。現在法務部有沒有初步的看法？因為最近酒駕、毒駕大家都討論很多，但是藥駕開始討論出來了，法務部對藥駕的立場是什麼？"],["馮次長成：跟委員報告，我們的法條規定是，行為人施用毒品、麻醉藥品或其他相類之物。"],["賴委員士葆：那就是藥駕，是不是？"],["馮次長成：對，如果他的尿液跟血液檢驗達到行政院公告的濃度以上就可能會構成第一百八十五條之三第一項第三款的規定；就算沒有達到公告值，那也要看個案中是不是已經造成了具體上不能安全駕駛，因為我們那個條文的重點是在不能安全駕駛，我們會做實務上的判斷……"],["賴委員士葆：可是當事人可能不了解，他感冒吃個感冒藥，結果裡面有含這個成分就頭暈暈的，開車出問題，就變成這樣！"],["馮次長成：其他相類之物要達到血液檢驗濃度的話，大概不會是感冒藥就達得到……"],["賴委員士葆：所以目前法務部還沒有準備要提案修法把藥駕加進來？沒有？"],["馮次長成：目前其他相類之物已經可以包括在內。"],["賴委員士葆：所以其他的已經包括藥？"],["馮次長成：對！"],["賴委員士葆：我覺得那一部分可以把它特別標啦，譬如說針對第三級、危險級的藥，吃了安眠藥請你也不要開車，比如這樣講。"],["馮次長成：是，我們這部分再看看怎麼妥適去做。"],["賴委員士葆：你們去研究一下，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝賴委員。","接下來我們有請陳冠廷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":128,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-36-23","speakers":["翁曉玲","陳昭姿","吳宗憲","沈發惠","賴士葆","陳冠廷","林倩綺","許宇甄","林沛祥","張雅琳","莊瑞雄","范雲","蔡其昌","傅崐萁"],"page_start":57,"meetingDate":["2026-07-06"],"gazette_id":"1155901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155901_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第23次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院秘書長、法務部部長、財團法人法律扶助基金會、財團法人犯罪被害人保護協會針對\n「犯罪被害人訴訟參與制度之現況、檢討與精進」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1155901_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}