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那就夾帶進來旅客的話非洲豬瘟那一塊手提行李農業部這邊房委會是有房間署這邊是有全部手提行李有檢查有經過X光但是一般旅客除了非洲豬瘟豬肉製品之外的並沒有每一件手提行李會打開來看"},{"start":92.476,"end":114.283,"text":"對,但是它有經過機器嘛,對,非洲豬瘟是有經過機器啊,譬如說從泰國回來,搬機,每一個手提行李都要經過嘛,那既然已經設定這些,我們先天討論了這些毒品的原料的來源國,大宗在哪裡,那針對這些搬機,怎麼樣來處理呢?"},{"start":118.188,"end":142.197,"text":"高風險的班機 針對高風險的班機它可能來自東南亞 可能來自中國這個海關隊旅客的部分的這一塊它的手提行李海關是都會提高查驗比例的那麼它的拖運行李是百分之百要經過X光那抽驗比例現在狀況怎麼樣抽驗比例有抽驗抓到了嗎有"},{"start":144.127,"end":169.522,"text":"大概會有兩三種太陽的情況之下啦第一個X光會照到啦第二個海關有氣毒犬我們一到五月抓到多少是旅客的手提行李抓到了手提行李這個要會後再來提供啊 關務署嗎是 那這不是你們在查的嗎是 手提行李的部分你知道今天要來做這個報告"},{"start":171.345,"end":175.21,"text":"那你不知道手提行李查到多少手提行李"},{"start":177.967,"end":200.761,"text":"總數一到四月海關查到這個伊脫米子總共有一百多公斤那如果說要確認是我為什麼要這樣問因為你剛剛說你們提高了這個頻率提高查驗比例提高查驗的這個比例那我們就要知道說到底有多少的旅客這樣拿進來對不對拿著包包放在裡面這樣進來的"},{"start":202.942,"end":215.702,"text":"人數啊 比例啊總是要跟國人講嘛好不好 這個可能後續要特別注意第二個 走小三通進來的比例會不會比較高"},{"start":217.199,"end":232.816,"text":"目前查到的小山通的比例並沒有明顯的比較好那從小山通進來再進到台灣是從這一個金門或連江這邊進來之後再進到台灣這跟公務署有沒有關係這個就屬於國內線"},{"start":236.462,"end":256.856,"text":"就沒有檢查了所以如果走小山東進來進到金門跟連江以後再進到台北進到台中這樣的一個就跟官務署無關那這一段誰查這一段就安檢的部分對 法務部有沒有什麼想法"},{"start":259.693,"end":288.002,"text":"委員好 跟委員報告如果它是屬於毒品的先驅原料的話當然我們就會查扣來偵辦海關那邊查貨也會來查辦那如果它是屬於這種所謂的改變這種化學式的話那因為它不屬於毒品的先驅原料所以呢我們會追蹤了解這些化學品的流向是不是除了化學品之外它還有構置這些相關的制毒的設施配備那我們會積極來查辦所以每個案子呢我們都會查差不多一兩年左右好 謝謝"},{"start":289.442,"end":306.822,"text":"這個我再請教光屋署,不好意思啊請問一下依托米子啊,在我們還沒討論這個毒品之前依托米子到底可不可以在台灣出現?不行啊都不行?不行,因為它是毒品"},{"start":308.51,"end":319.59,"text":"依托米子是被列管的毒品被列管的毒品是都不能出現不能進口不能進口是就是一滴都不能進來是ok好謝謝好接下來我們請國安局的局長"},{"start":325.725,"end":341.593,"text":"好 委員好好 局長最近那個中國啊 泰國國家 哪個國家啊 創一條要什麼團結嘛齁我請問一下他們通過這個法 跟這個英文來的國安法 反分裂國家法 到底有什麼關係"},{"start":343.031,"end":369.356,"text":"對,他這大概長期以來透過法律工具來對台灣或境外的中國民主人士來進行這種法律的脅迫所以我們剛剛有提到,包括反分裂國家法,成都二十二條到現在的民族團結進步促進法大概都是中共運用這些法律方式來進行施壓有什麼不一樣,大家都會說七月一號過了很恐怖,到底有什麼不一樣六月三十號不會恐怖,七月一號變成很恐怖是怎樣"},{"start":370.796,"end":387.065,"text":"他現在主要的問題是在於說所謂的破壞民族團結他有做一些法律的定義他不管境內跟境外都可能會使用而且定義不清楚那他這個定義不清楚就會增加你相關被他認為涉案的風險"},{"start":387.645,"end":408.992,"text":"好 這個局長我提醒你們最近我們有這個叫中國關心的人士包括政體人物 還是中國人為這些異議人士好了到各國去參與活動 參與演講就會接到一些通知說7月1號開始 你們覺得要辦"},{"start":416.494,"end":441.147,"text":"你不是有邀請什麼人,你們確定你們還要辦這第一種第一種就是有一些以前沒有聯絡的團體說他也要去參加,他也要上會期,他也要去支持,他也要合照這個事情,國安單位我建議你們要掌握為什麼呢?因為這個國外邀請單位,去給這些人訂位公共的料所的金錢"},{"start":447.223,"end":452.57,"text":"大家會緊張,我們邀請的來賓來,邀請的來賓來,現在邀請的來賓來當然這個主辦單位都不怕繼續在辦,只是說心裡也有壓力存在你們有掌握這樣的資訊嗎?"},{"start":464.344,"end":480.36,"text":"這大概分幾部分跟委員說明因為他透過這種法律工具的法律脅迫目的就是希望能夠製造一種寒產的效應就像剛剛委員的描述那第二部分是國際社會這一次事實上對於他的這個法律的推動表達非常高度跟嚴正的關切"},{"start":480.72,"end":500.309,"text":"那包括我剛才跟其他委員在說明有的國家甚至在評估考慮要跟中國終止所謂的這種所謂引渡的一個條款那也有國家在評估假如中國的官員去執行這個法律的話考慮要對他施予制裁所以這已經在國際社會掀起一個效應所以這是這民主國家如果說真的要抓人要怎麼也要用那個國家的人去抓嘛"},{"start":503.15,"end":519.271,"text":"不會說你參加一個活動在中國的警察衝下去就把你抓起來你還是不會吧?我要注意的是他的跨境鎮壓有一些手法他的一些手法有包括到類似這種法律上的威脅那另外還有包括到人身的這種跟監或騷擾"},{"start":521.334,"end":541.928,"text":"那也有透過數位的一個監控來對於你的一些郵件往返來進行一些相關的註收那來造成心裡的一個恐懼跟壓力那我想中共他操作的一方面是有法律的工具另一方面是透過他的海外勤工來做這些部件騷擾而形成我剛剛跟委員說明的一種寒產的效應那這部分我們當然必須要跟國際社會來加強這樣的一個聯繫來揭露跟說明這樣的一個狀況"},{"start":551.614,"end":569.3,"text":"以外的一個安全情報機構來查查這樣子的過程有沒有去侵犯到基本的人權或相關的價值我們的一個基本的人權還有言論的自由的價值好 謝謝局長 最後就是說 希望說我們啦 雖然說我們國人是海外去給中國人民說這幾個要怎麼樣"},{"start":575.563,"end":580.846,"text":"邀請他們的黨委都會接觸到一些關心的地方要去參加的人參加外黨的人也會去跟黨委說你一定要去這個確實都有開始有一點擔心國安黨委研究一下要怎麼國人有時候會去澳洲也在煩惱"},{"start":604.936,"end":632.702,"text":"對啊,不過跟委員說明一下啦,因為他這樣的,剛剛講的那個法律的內容,以及他相關在海外這種跨境鎮壓的這些動作,事實上是對於國際的基本的法治跟人權規範一個非常嚴重的侵犯。所以他會提供我們跟相關各國在這個議題上,發展更進一步合作跟交流的一個機會。那我們會利用這個機會來拓展我們跟國際上在這方面議題的一個合作跟溝通。好,謝謝。好,謝謝委員。"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:30:20.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:30:22.739000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我們請法務部跟關務署。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-06T10:30:23.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:30:25.580000+08:00","text":"請法務部以及關務署。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:30:32.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:30:44.987000+08:00","text":"好，我先請教關務署，在所有的海關，不管是海運的、空運相關的海關，現在怎麼查依托咪酯這些東西？","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"趙副署長台安","start":"2026-07-06T10:30:46.828000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:31:09.275000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，如果是跨境的網購，每一件貨物一定會經過X光的查驗，這是第一個；第二個就是海關有風險分析的機制，會針對高風險的來源國、高風險的班機來提高他的查驗比例。","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:31:10.736000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:31:16.998000+08:00","text":"現在因為非洲豬瘟，有些國家進來的手提行李全部都要驗。是。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:31:18.699000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:31:23.369000+08:00","text":"針對依托咪酯有做這些事嗎？沒有。沒有？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:31:23.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:31:26.411000+08:00","text":"那就挾帶進來了。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"趙副署長台安","start":"2026-07-06T10:31:26.411000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:31:50.006000+08:00","text":"旅客的話，因非洲豬瘟，對於手提行李，農業部防檢署是有針對全部的手提行李有檢查、有經過X光，但是一般旅客除了非洲豬瘟豬肉製品之外的，並沒有針對每一件手提行李打開來看。","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:31:51.476000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:31:56.318000+08:00","text":"對，但是它有經過機器，非洲豬瘟是有經過機器啊！是。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:31:58.978000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:32:01.299000+08:00","text":"比如你從泰國回來的班機……","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"趙副署長台安","start":"2026-07-06T10:32:01.299000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:32:02.299000+08:00","text":"那一定要經過……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:32:01.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:32:04.220000+08:00","text":"每一個手提行李一定要經過？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"趙副署長台安","start":"2026-07-06T10:32:04.220000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:32:05.220000+08:00","text":"對，要經過X光、要打開……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:32:05.140000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:32:12.983000+08:00","text":"既然已經設定這一些，我們先前討論了這些毒品的原料來源國，大宗在哪裡？","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:32:13.043000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:32:13.263000+08:00","text":"針對這些班機怎麼樣來處理呢？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"趙副署長台安","start":"2026-07-06T10:32:19.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:32:33.034000+08:00","text":"針對高風險的班機，它可能來自東南亞，可能來自中國，海關對旅客部分的手提行李，海關都會提高查驗比例的，它的托運行李是百分之百要經過X光。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:32:35.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:32:37.896000+08:00","text":"現在抽驗比例的狀況怎麼樣？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:32:38.996000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:32:41.177000+08:00","text":"有抽驗抓到的嗎？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"趙副署長台安","start":"2026-07-06T10:32:41.177000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:32:48.950000+08:00","text":"有，大概會有兩、三種態樣的情況之下，第一個，X光會照到；第二個，海關有緝毒犬。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:32:49.251000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:32:54.393000+08:00","text":"我們1月到5月有多少是在旅客的手提行李抓到的？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"趙副署長台安","start":"2026-07-06T10:32:55.294000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:33:00.597000+08:00","text":"手提行李，這個要會後再來提供。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:33:02.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:33:04.079000+08:00","text":"你們不是關務署嗎？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"趙副署長台安","start":"2026-07-06T10:33:04.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:33:04.079000+08:00","text":"是，但是……","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:33:04.539000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:33:05.760000+08:00","text":"這個不是你們在查的嗎？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"趙副署長台安","start":"2026-07-06T10:33:05.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:33:07.341000+08:00","text":"是，手提行李的部分……","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:33:07.641000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:33:08.502000+08:00","text":"你知道今天要來做這個報告？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:33:10.485000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:33:12.428000+08:00","text":"你不知道手提行李查到多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"趙副署長台安","start":"2026-07-06T10:33:13.389000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:33:24.952000+08:00","text":"手提行李總數1月到4月，海關查到依托咪酯總共有一百多公斤，如果要確認是……","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:33:25.552000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:33:26.413000+08:00","text":"我為什麼要這樣問？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:33:26.413000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:33:28.894000+08:00","text":"因為你剛剛說你們提高了這個頻率……","quality":1},{"speaker":"趙副署長台安","start":"2026-07-06T10:33:29.074000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:33:30.135000+08:00","text":"是，提高查驗比例。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:33:30.795000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:33:32.116000+08:00","text":"對，提高查驗比例。是。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:33:33.357000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:33:38.020000+08:00","text":"我們就要知道到底有多少旅客這樣拿進來，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:33:38.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:33:43.224000+08:00","text":"從他的包包放在裡面，這樣進來的人數、比例。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"趙副署長台安","start":"2026-07-06T10:33:43.224000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:33:44.947000+08:00","text":"是，這個會後我再提供給委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:33:44.947000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:33:45.969000+08:00","text":"總是要跟國人講嘛！是。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:33:47.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:33:47.571000+08:00","text":"好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:33:48.012000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:33:49.975000+08:00","text":"這個可能後續要要特別注意。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:33:50.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:33:54.682000+08:00","text":"第二個，走小三通進來的比例會不會可能比較高？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"趙副署長台安","start":"2026-07-06T10:33:56.199000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:34:01.144000+08:00","text":"目前查到的小三通的比例並沒有明顯的比較高。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:34:01.144000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:34:11.636000+08:00","text":"好，從小三通進來再進到臺灣，從金門或連江這邊進來之後再進到臺灣，這跟關務署有沒有關係？","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"趙副署長台安","start":"2026-07-06T10:34:11.636000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:34:11.816000+08:00","text":"這個就屬於國內線。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:34:15.462000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:34:15.962000+08:00","text":"就沒有檢查啦？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"趙副署長台安","start":"2026-07-06T10:34:15.962000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:34:16.962000+08:00","text":"國內線的話……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:34:16.863000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:34:28.851000+08:00","text":"所以如果走小三通進來，進到金門跟連江以後再進到比如進到臺北、進到臺中，這樣就跟關務署無關，但這一段誰查？","quality":0.83},{"speaker":"趙副署長台安","start":"2026-07-06T10:34:30.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:34:33.854000+08:00","text":"這一段就安檢的部分……","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:34:34.415000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:34:35.836000+08:00","text":"對，法務部有沒有什麼想法？","quality":1},{"speaker":"連副局長震宗","start":"2026-07-06T10:34:39.053000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:35:06.862000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，如果它是屬於毒品的先驅原料的話，當然，我們就會查扣來偵辦，海關那邊查獲也會來查辦，如果它是屬於這種所謂的改變化學式的話，因為它不屬於毒品的先驅原料，所以我們會追蹤了解這些化學品的流向，是不是除了化學品之外，他還有購置相關的製毒設施配備，我們會積極來查辦，所以每個案子我們都會查差不多一、兩年左右。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:35:06.982000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:35:07.002000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:35:08.442000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:35:21.457000+08:00","text":"不好意思，我再請教關務署，請問在我們還沒討論毒品之前，依托咪酯到底可不可以在臺灣出現？","quality":0.795},{"speaker":"趙副署長台安","start":"2026-07-06T10:35:21.457000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:35:21.817000+08:00","text":"不行啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:35:22.738000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:35:22.958000+08:00","text":"都不行？","quality":1},{"speaker":"趙副署長台安","start":"2026-07-06T10:35:23.339000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:35:29.574000+08:00","text":"不行，因為它是毒品，它是被列管的毒品。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:35:29.794000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:35:30.556000+08:00","text":"依托咪酯是被列管的毒品？是。","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:35:30.916000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:35:31.698000+08:00","text":"都不能出現？","quality":1},{"speaker":"趙副署長台安","start":"2026-07-06T10:35:31.698000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:35:32.098000+08:00","text":"不能進口。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:35:32.659000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:35:33.261000+08:00","text":"不能進口？是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:35:33.601000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:35:35.184000+08:00","text":"就是一滴都不能進來？是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:35:35.965000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:35:36.987000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:35:37.108000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:35:38.590000+08:00","text":"接下來請國安局局長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:35:44.965000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:35:45.745000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:35:46.106000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:36:00.593000+08:00","text":"局長，最近中國這個骯髒的爛國家弄了一個民族團結進步促進法，請問一下他們通過這個法跟他們原來的反分裂國家法到底有什麼不同？","quality":0.632},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:36:02.031000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:36:21.135000+08:00","text":"他長期以來透過法律工具對臺灣或中國境外的民主人士進行法律的脅迫，委員剛才有提到包括反分裂國家法、懲獨22條到現在的民族團結進步促進法，中共大概都是運用這些法律工具來施壓。","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:36:21.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:36:22.035000+08:00","text":"有什麼不一樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:36:22.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:36:26.015000+08:00","text":"為什麼大家都說7月1號之後會很恐怖，到底有什麼不一樣？","quality":0.652},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:36:26.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:36:28.196000+08:00","text":"6月30號之前不恐怖，7月1號之後變得很恐怖，這是為什麼？","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:36:29.916000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:36:37.280000+08:00","text":"現在主要的問題在於針對所謂的破壞民族團結，他有做一些法律的定義……","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:36:37.280000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:36:38.280000+08:00","text":"定義不清楚嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:36:37.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:36:42.163000+08:00","text":"對，不管境內跟境外都可能會適用，而且定義不清楚。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:36:42.163000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:36:43.163000+08:00","text":"他的定義跟我們沒關係啊！","quality":0.091},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:36:43.163000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:36:44.163000+08:00","text":"對，定義不清楚。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:36:42.823000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:36:46.065000+08:00","text":"但他定義不清楚就會增加被他認為涉案的風險。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:36:47.685000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:37:07.992000+08:00","text":"局長，我提醒你們，最近我們有被中國關心的人士，包括政治人物或是中國認為的異議人士，他們到各國去參與活動、參與演講就會接到一些通知，說這個法7月1號就要開始實施了，那你們還要辦嗎？","quality":0.772},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:37:15.494000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:37:18.276000+08:00","text":"你們不是有邀請某些人，你們確定你們還要辦嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:37:18.276000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:37:20.277000+08:00","text":"這是第一種。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:37:20.277000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:37:37.646000+08:00","text":"第二種是有一些以前沒有聯絡的團體，說他也要去參加，他也要送花去，他也要去致詞，他也要合照，我建議國安單位要掌握這些事情，為什麼呢？","quality":0.776},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:37:38.306000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:37:51.570000+08:00","text":"因為國外的邀請單位和這些人講完電話之後也會開始緊張，他們接到這種電話，他們邀請了某些來賓，結果接到這種電話，當然主辦單位都沒在怕，還是繼續舉辦，但是他們心裡難免會存在壓力，請問你們有掌握這樣的資訊嗎？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:38:03.344000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:38:12.853000+08:00","text":"這大概分幾部分跟委員說明，他透過法律工具的法律脅迫，目的就是希望能夠製造一種寒蟬效應，就像剛剛委員的描述。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:38:13.674000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:38:35.947000+08:00","text":"第二個部分，事實上國際社會對於他這一次的法律推動表達非常高度跟嚴正的關切，我剛剛也在跟其他委員說明，有的國家甚至在評估考慮要跟中國終止引渡的條款，也有國家在評估假如中國官員執行這項法律的話，考慮要對他施予制裁，所以這已經在國際社會掀起一個效應。","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:38:36.848000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:38:39.289000+08:00","text":"民主國家如果真的要抓人或怎麼樣，也要他們那個國家的人去抓嘛！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:38:42.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:38:47.137000+08:00","text":"不會說你參加一個活動，中國的警察就衝進來把你抓走，應該是不會吧！","quality":0.793},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:38:47.778000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:39:11.982000+08:00","text":"不過要注意的是他的跨境鎮壓有一些手法，他的手法包括類似這種法律上的威脅，另外還有包括人身的跟監或騷擾，也有透過數位監控對於你的郵件往返進行一些相關的注蒐，來造成心理的恐懼跟壓力。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:39:12.382000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:39:19.467000+08:00","text":"我想中共他要操作的一方面是法律的工具，另外一方面是透過他的海外情工來做這些布建騷擾，而形成我剛剛跟委員說明的一種寒蟬的效應。","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:39:19.487000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:39:42.878000+08:00","text":"這部分我們當然必須跟國際社會加強聯繫，揭露並說明這樣的狀況，我們情報單位也會跟國外的安全情報機構來查察這樣子的過程有沒有侵犯到基本人權或相關的價值，也就是基本的人權及言論自由的價值。","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:39:43.078000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:39:44.139000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝局長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:39:44.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:39:57.124000+08:00","text":"最後，針對這幾個被中國認定及關心的國人，邀請他們的單位多少都會接到一些關心的電話，要去參加活動的人多少也會被嘮叨說你確定你要去？","quality":0.533},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:39:57.124000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:39:58.124000+08:00","text":"去那裡會不會怎麼樣？","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:39:57.264000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:40:23.936000+08:00","text":"這確實開始都有一點擔心，請國安單位研究一下要如何確保國人的安全，有時候到歐洲去也會擔心啊！","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:40:25.116000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:40:51.162000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明一下，剛剛講的法律內容以及他在海外跨境鎮壓的相關動作，事實上是對於國際基本法制及人權規範非常嚴重的侵犯，所以他們也會提供我們跟相關各國在這個議題上更進一步合作與交流的機會，我們會利用這個機會來拓展我們跟國際上在這方面議題的合作跟溝通。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"王委員義川","start":"2026-07-06T10:40:51.462000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:40:51.622000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡局長明彥","start":"2026-07-06T10:40:51.682000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:40:51.702000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-06T10:40:52.202000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:40:55.916286+08:00","text":"接下來請徐巧芯委員上臺質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":317,"blocks":[["王委員義川：（10時30分）謝謝主席，我們請法務部跟關務署。"],["主席：請法務部以及關務署。"],["王委員義川：好，我先請教關務署，在所有的海關，不管是海運的、空運相關的海關，現在怎麼查依托咪酯這些東西？"],["趙副署長台安：跟委員報告，如果是跨境的網購，每一件貨物一定會經過X光的查驗，這是第一個；第二個就是海關有風險分析的機制，會針對高風險的來源國、高風險的班機來提高他的查驗比例。"],["王委員義川：現在因為非洲豬瘟，有些國家進來的手提行李全部都要驗。"],["趙副署長台安：是。"],["王委員義川：針對依托咪酯有做這些事嗎？"],["趙副署長台安：沒有。"],["王委員義川：沒有？那就挾帶進來了。"],["趙副署長台安：旅客的話，因非洲豬瘟，對於手提行李，農業部防檢署是有針對全部的手提行李有檢查、有經過X光，但是一般旅客除了非洲豬瘟豬肉製品之外的，並沒有針對每一件手提行李打開來看。"],["王委員義川：對，但是它有經過機器，非洲豬瘟是有經過機器啊！"],["趙副署長台安：是。"],["王委員義川：比如你從泰國回來的班機……"],["趙副署長台安：那一定要經過……"],["王委員義川：每一個手提行李一定要經過？"],["趙副署長台安：對，要經過X光、要打開……"],["王委員義川：既然已經設定這一些，我們先前討論了這些毒品的原料來源國，大宗在哪裡？針對這些班機怎麼樣來處理呢？"],["趙副署長台安：針對高風險的班機，它可能來自東南亞，可能來自中國，海關對旅客部分的手提行李，海關都會提高查驗比例的，它的托運行李是百分之百要經過X光。"],["王委員義川：現在抽驗比例的狀況怎麼樣？有抽驗抓到的嗎？"],["趙副署長台安：有，大概會有兩、三種態樣的情況之下，第一個，X光會照到；第二個，海關有緝毒犬。"],["王委員義川：我們1月到5月有多少是在旅客的手提行李抓到的？"],["趙副署長台安：手提行李，這個要會後再來提供。"],["王委員義川：你們不是關務署嗎？"],["趙副署長台安：是，但是……"],["王委員義川：這個不是你們在查的嗎？"],["趙副署長台安：是，手提行李的部分……"],["王委員義川：你知道今天要來做這個報告？你不知道手提行李查到多少？"],["趙副署長台安：手提行李總數1月到4月，海關查到依托咪酯總共有一百多公斤，如果要確認是……"],["王委員義川：我為什麼要這樣問？因為你剛剛說你們提高了這個頻率……"],["趙副署長台安：是，提高查驗比例。"],["王委員義川：對，提高查驗比例。"],["趙副署長台安：是。"],["王委員義川：我們就要知道到底有多少旅客這樣拿進來，對不對？從他的包包放在裡面，這樣進來的人數、比例。"],["趙副署長台安：是，這個會後我再提供給委員。"],["王委員義川：總是要跟國人講嘛！"],["趙副署長台安：是。"],["王委員義川：好不好？這個可能後續要要特別注意。第二個，走小三通進來的比例會不會可能比較高？"],["趙副署長台安：目前查到的小三通的比例並沒有明顯的比較高。"],["王委員義川：好，從小三通進來再進到臺灣，從金門或連江這邊進來之後再進到臺灣，這跟關務署有沒有關係？"],["趙副署長台安：這個就屬於國內線。"],["王委員義川：就沒有檢查啦？"],["趙副署長台安：國內線的話……"],["王委員義川：所以如果走小三通進來，進到金門跟連江以後再進到比如進到臺北、進到臺中，這樣就跟關務署無關，但這一段誰查？"],["趙副署長台安：這一段就安檢的部分……"],["王委員義川：對，法務部有沒有什麼想法？"],["連副局長震宗：跟委員報告，如果它是屬於毒品的先驅原料的話，當然，我們就會查扣來偵辦，海關那邊查獲也會來查辦，如果它是屬於這種所謂的改變化學式的話，因為它不屬於毒品的先驅原料，所以我們會追蹤了解這些化學品的流向，是不是除了化學品之外，他還有購置相關的製毒設施配備，我們會積極來查辦，所以每個案子我們都會查差不多一、兩年左右。"],["王委員義川：好，謝謝。","不好意思，我再請教關務署，請問在我們還沒討論毒品之前，依托咪酯到底可不可以在臺灣出現？"],["趙副署長台安：不行啊！"],["王委員義川：都不行？"],["趙副署長台安：不行，因為它是毒品，它是被列管的毒品。"],["王委員義川：依托咪酯是被列管的毒品？"],["趙副署長台安：是。"],["王委員義川：都不能出現？"],["趙副署長台安：不能進口。"],["王委員義川：不能進口？"],["趙副署長台安：是。"],["王委員義川：就是一滴都不能進來？"],["趙副署長台安：是。"],["王委員義川：好，謝謝。","接下來請國安局局長。"],["蔡局長明彥：委員好。"],["王委員義川：局長，最近中國這個骯髒的爛國家弄了一個民族團結進步促進法，請問一下他們通過這個法跟他們原來的反分裂國家法到底有什麼不同？"],["蔡局長明彥：他長期以來透過法律工具對臺灣或中國境外的民主人士進行法律的脅迫，委員剛才有提到包括反分裂國家法、懲獨22條到現在的民族團結進步促進法，中共大概都是運用這些法律工具來施壓。"],["王委員義川：有什麼不一樣？為什麼大家都說7月1號之後會很恐怖，到底有什麼不一樣？6月30號之前不恐怖，7月1號之後變得很恐怖，這是為什麼？"],["蔡局長明彥：現在主要的問題在於針對所謂的破壞民族團結，他有做一些法律的定義……"],["王委員義川：定義不清楚嘛！"],["蔡局長明彥：對，不管境內跟境外都可能會適用，而且定義不清楚。"],["王委員義川：他的定義跟我們沒關係啊！"],["蔡局長明彥：對，定義不清楚。但他定義不清楚就會增加被他認為涉案的風險。"],["王委員義川：局長，我提醒你們，最近我們有被中國關心的人士，包括政治人物或是中國認為的異議人士，他們到各國去參與活動、參與演講就會接到一些通知，說這個法7月1號就要開始實施了，那你們還要辦嗎？你們不是有邀請某些人，你們確定你們還要辦嗎？這是第一種。第二種是有一些以前沒有聯絡的團體，說他也要去參加，他也要送花去，他也要去致詞，他也要合照，我建議國安單位要掌握這些事情，為什麼呢？因為國外的邀請單位和這些人講完電話之後也會開始緊張，他們接到這種電話，他們邀請了某些來賓，結果接到這種電話，當然主辦單位都沒在怕，還是繼續舉辦，但是他們心裡難免會存在壓力，請問你們有掌握這樣的資訊嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：這大概分幾部分跟委員說明，他透過法律工具的法律脅迫，目的就是希望能夠製造一種寒蟬效應，就像剛剛委員的描述。第二個部分，事實上國際社會對於他這一次的法律推動表達非常高度跟嚴正的關切，我剛剛也在跟其他委員說明，有的國家甚至在評估考慮要跟中國終止引渡的條款，也有國家在評估假如中國官員執行這項法律的話，考慮要對他施予制裁，所以這已經在國際社會掀起一個效應。"],["王委員義川：民主國家如果真的要抓人或怎麼樣，也要他們那個國家的人去抓嘛！不會說你參加一個活動，中國的警察就衝進來把你抓走，應該是不會吧！"],["蔡局長明彥：不過要注意的是他的跨境鎮壓有一些手法，他的手法包括類似這種法律上的威脅，另外還有包括人身的跟監或騷擾，也有透過數位監控對於你的郵件往返進行一些相關的注蒐，來造成心理的恐懼跟壓力。我想中共他要操作的一方面是法律的工具，另外一方面是透過他的海外情工來做這些布建騷擾，而形成我剛剛跟委員說明的一種寒蟬的效應。這部分我們當然必須跟國際社會加強聯繫，揭露並說明這樣的狀況，我們情報單位也會跟國外的安全情報機構來查察這樣子的過程有沒有侵犯到基本人權或相關的價值，也就是基本的人權及言論自由的價值。"],["王委員義川：好，謝謝局長。最後，針對這幾個被中國認定及關心的國人，邀請他們的單位多少都會接到一些關心的電話，要去參加活動的人多少也會被嘮叨說你確定你要去？去那裡會不會怎麼樣？這確實開始都有一點擔心，請國安單位研究一下要如何確保國人的安全，有時候到歐洲去也會擔心啊！"],["蔡局長明彥：跟委員說明一下，剛剛講的法律內容以及他在海外跨境鎮壓的相關動作，事實上是對於國際基本法制及人權規範非常嚴重的侵犯，所以他們也會提供我們跟相關各國在這個議題上更進一步合作與交流的機會，我們會利用這個機會來拓展我們跟國際上在這方面議題的合作跟溝通。"],["王委員義川：好，謝謝。"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝委員。"],["主席：接下來請徐巧芯委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":56,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-35-25","speakers":["馬文君","沈伯洋","陳俊宇","羅美玲","陳永康","林楚茵","牛煦庭","王安祥","王義川","徐巧芯","黃建賓","賴士葆","陳冠廷","王定宇","黃仁","吳宗憲","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2026-07-06"],"gazette_id":"1155901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第25次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥、內政部、法務部報告「新興毒品走私之國安情資整合與跨國緝毒協\n同作為」，併請海洋委員會海巡署、財政部關務署、國防部憲兵指揮部列席，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1155901_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}