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這個女性的被跟著之後"},{"start":178.508,"end":200.089,"text":"我沒有問他說這個是對你有什麼狀況他一定是這個案例嗎或怎麼樣這些被案人的描述我們當然就是會去做這樣的一個受理如果沒有你如果說你現在是從寬可以我們就回到這次的修法那刪除性與性別的要件為什麼不可以我覺得這個這個方面就很大因為其他跟照在設置在"},{"start":201.67,"end":208.166,"text":"在刑法或其他法律都有做規範就是根梢的一般的這個根梢在設置法也有做規範"},{"start":210.113,"end":228.347,"text":"所以我們就回來檢討應該要修法民間團體也覺得你現在的做法就是去限縮我跟你說啦你地方有一些員警就會以這個為由他就會先問說是不是跟性跟性別有關如果不是他會主動排除你知道嗎委員我做個建議啦這個我實務上的這個問題今天如果在這個因為這個跟沙發是"},{"start":234.851,"end":245.601,"text":"對於女性性別暴力的其中的一個法包括家暴性侵還有這個性騷擾整體的這個主軸就是在這個那至於一般的根沙我建議來修設置法一般的就跑到設置法那邊去有包括相關的責任因為因為那邊的根沙我們也也有提議要去做怎樣比如講像有一些"},{"start":261.062,"end":286.074,"text":"講比較簡單現在的拖拍啦什麼這一類這些那個都跑到那個設置法那邊去啊那但是他的處罰沒那麼重可以可以來修可以來修設置法那你們提出來提出來配套來說服我們啊你現在那個也沒有啊你這個也不要那邊也沒有就是沒有配套現在有的現在所有案件你沒有符合姓李姓北的會跑到設置法刑法甚至"},{"start":286.994,"end":292.659,"text":"甚至那個組織犯罪或者是這一些的那個組長你如果要說你現在是很完整民間團體就不會倡議修法了啦就是現在你有漏洞嘛民間團體才會倡議說應該是要重寬"},{"start":302.286,"end":330.838,"text":"委員我來一起回應您剛所提議的這些爭議點當時要送跟騷法的時候我是立法委員我是同意的因為我們同樣在婦女裡面都知道說其實在跟騷法裡面的被害者大部分都是女性是啊八成八但是跟騷法也好或是設置法或是跟性有關的性侵害防治法或家暴法它裡面很大的一個點就是要告知社會大眾你必須要讓警方來接受受理"},{"start":331.418,"end":343.923,"text":"那警方接受受理之後他再判斷是否用跟騷法或是社違法或者是性侵害防治法他們會跟這個受害者或是被害者會做一個解釋然後通常是警方有不受理的情況"},{"start":346.804,"end":360.034,"text":"如果警方不受理那我們就要加強教育我先跟委員報告那所以如果他們判斷出來是根梢法的時候警方的第一次的提醒大概有90%會抑止這樣的加害的行為那10%左右才會送到向法院申請保護令所以這個數據會有差距這是一個再來就是我們另外一個需要處理的部分就在於說網路的犯罪網路的犯罪會讓被害者心生恐懼"},{"start":375.865,"end":396.028,"text":"但是呢網路的部分就像大家都知道網路你要找到真正的加害人在哪裡確實需要時間但是呢如果我們在警方所有的這個資源上面能夠馬上處理我們一定馬上處理所以這個部分第一個我們現在已經跟那個書面報告跟大家報告九成如果是警方受理跟騷法的"},{"start":396.568,"end":415.281,"text":"核發這個所謂的書面告誡的話呢它其實可以達到第一次的這個遏止效果而且日本他們的這個研究是八成左右可以達到那再來就是大家會比較擔心如果它是比較嚴重比較嚴重的話你是適合性侵或是其他家庭暴力是整個的法律的系統它是完備的"},{"start":416.041,"end":444.92,"text":"但是可能我們第一線的員警會先問說這個跟姓跟性別有關那所以呢一定要一定要這個跟燒法的話跟姓跟性別有關但是他忘了提醒說也許用社會安全設置法是可以處理的譬如說可能是男男或者是想要討債甚至我們這個公寓大廈管理條例鄰居跟鄰居之間都有處理的方案那如果這些方案有不足的地方的話我們在第一線的警員在法律上如何處理更好的話我們會來加強"},{"start":446.261,"end":472.899,"text":"部長我要告訴你就是你現在實務上就是處理不好沒有周全也沒有配套所以民間團體才會倡議希望是直接從根梢法裡面我們修法我們怎麼樣去縮短你的核發的這個時間包括保護令還有就是這個禁制令的時間還有就是希望你可以在網路上剛剛你特別提到網路上面有一些被害人的個資他也被傳播或者是他"},{"start":474.96,"end":496.665,"text":"在網路上面被騷擾這個都是當時四年前修法的時候我們沒有看到的漏洞那我覺得這一個修法就像剛剛部長你講你當時也是立法委員你也是贊成的那當時內政部的態度就是四年以後當然是可以檢討啊那我們現在就是要檢討但是你們剛剛講的那些配套你們根本沒有提出方案"},{"start":497.545,"end":522.748,"text":"也沒有包括署長你講的你說可以在其他法令修你也沒有提出相對的一個配套的修法所以我是不是可以要求你們在一個月內你們把要配套的相關的修法還有剛剛部長你說就是怎麼樣讓基層的員警每一個個案都不漏接而不是直接用擋的說你這個不符合性跟性別然後直接就擋掉了然後他也不知道下文是什麼"},{"start":523.388,"end":536.906,"text":"因為基層的員警也沒有告訴他還有哪一些路可以走那你們可不可以一個月之內提出你們的相關配套的更完整的一個修法或者是相關配套機制的報告 可以嗎 署長"},{"start":540.784,"end":555.107,"text":"我們這個報告大概7月份會有一些資源出來那是不是因為這些的包括中正還有警大的這些資料還有食物單位7月份再出來我們是不是再給我們一點時間就一個月一個月可能7月才會出來現在已經7月了你要多久我要完整的你們檢討報告因為民間團體對這個是很期待的"},{"start":563.989,"end":592.264,"text":"我們是不是把那個警告跟那個兩個月 就兩個月可以喔 對不對因為這件事情是涉及到保護我們的婦女的安全的問題你們應該要予以重視我們在九月以前好不好 九月以前就八月底啊 八月底啊 好不好八月底提出來喔 九月啦九月的什麼時候 九月以前對啊 九月 部長數學不好九月底 九月底不是兩個月就兩個月嘛"},{"start":593.624,"end":603.8,"text":"現在七月初啊,就是兩個月啦,不要再握手了啦,主席,趙偉,就兩個月就兩個月啦,好不好,就兩個月要提出來,從今天開始起算,謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T09:51:03.541000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:51:10.986000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請劉部長，還有張署長、司法院楊法官。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T09:51:12.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:51:13.326000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T09:51:13.526000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:51:13.806000+08:00","text":"署長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T09:51:15.487000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:52:03.073000+08:00","text":"有關這次的跟騷法修法，2016年開始啟動修法的時候，在座的部長跟署長都不在任，我記得當時修法的時候，事實上內政部是一直抗拒，到最後逼不得已，因為我記得在第9屆出了委員會之後已經送到院會，但是當時的民進黨總召柯建銘總召就要把它拉下來，不讓這個法案三讀通過，所以從第9屆又延到第10屆，好不容易2022年真的正式通過了，當時通過的時候的內政部部長叫徐國勇，內政部發出新聞稿告訴大家，很高興跟蹤騷擾防制法通過了，我們會持續精進檢討！","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T09:52:05.106000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:52:19.114000+08:00","text":"也就是說，這個法已經上路4年，這4年來出現了任何問題，應該是要持續精進檢討，但是很遺憾，你們的書面報告都覺得現在做得很好。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T09:52:19.754000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:52:26.758000+08:00","text":"所以，第一個我要講的就是現在這些破口，你們如果都不修法，到底要怎麼去改善？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T09:52:27.619000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:52:43.542000+08:00","text":"首先我們就用個案來看，汶汶案中他在攝影棚被持刀攻擊，行為人就是長期在追蹤汶汶的人，現在都不修法，請問用現在的性騷擾防治法有辦法處理嗎？","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T09:52:43.542000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:52:44.043000+08:00","text":"來，署長請回答。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T09:52:44.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:53:07.571000+08:00","text":"報告委員，所有案件一定是要讓警察知悉，而汶汶案也是在報章雜誌報導之後，我們第一時間介入，介入之後就即時處理，包括當事人也被聲押，不是只有跟騷，也結合傷害、殺人未遂來聲押……","quality":0.711},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T09:53:08.091000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:53:10.052000+08:00","text":"對，這已經很嚴重了，這是後面了。對……","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T09:53:10.513000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:53:12.194000+08:00","text":"我的意思是像這樣的案件……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T09:53:12.874000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:53:20.558000+08:00","text":"所有案件就是要鼓勵所有被跟蹤騷擾的人第一時間一定要來報案。對。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T09:53:22.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:53:24.501000+08:00","text":"一定要報案，沒報案我們警察機關不會知道。是。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T09:53:26.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:53:27.863000+08:00","text":"但報案的要件，署長，你知道嗎？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T09:53:27.863000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:53:30.004000+08:00","text":"我們都會受理，第一個……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T09:53:30.004000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T09:53:31.004000+08:00","text":"報案就會受理嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T09:53:31.004000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T09:53:32.004000+08:00","text":"都會受理。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T09:53:31.144000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:53:34.787000+08:00","text":"不是要認定跟性有關的才受理嗎？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T09:53:34.787000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:53:46.975000+08:00","text":"我剛才已經講了：第一個就是被跟騷的人描述被跟騷的情形；第二部分就是有沒有反覆的狀況、心裡產生畏懼。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T09:53:47.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:54:09.257000+08:00","text":"比如說這是一個女性，對於男性這樣的行為，我們會問這個被跟的女性是什麼樣的狀況，一定是暗戀或怎麼樣，對於被害人的描述，我們當然會受理。","quality":0.683},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T09:54:11.178000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:54:11.699000+08:00","text":"另外，如果沒有……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T09:54:11.859000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:54:13.561000+08:00","text":"署長，你如果現在從寬認定，可以……","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T09:54:13.561000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T09:54:14.561000+08:00","text":"對，從寬認定。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T09:54:14.161000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:54:19.086000+08:00","text":"我們就回到這次的修法，刪除「與性或性別有關」的要件為什麼不可以？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T09:54:19.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T09:54:20.086000+08:00","text":"為什麼你們反對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T09:54:19.546000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:54:30.166000+08:00","text":"我覺得這個範圍很大，因為其他的跟騷在社秩法、在刑法或其他法律都有規範，就是一般的跟騷在社秩法也有規範。","quality":0.766},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T09:54:32.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:54:38.378000+08:00","text":"所以我們就回頭檢討，認為應該要修法，民間團體也覺得現在的做法就是限縮……","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T09:54:38.378000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T09:54:39.378000+08:00","text":"對，如果說……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T09:54:38.378000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:54:47.504000+08:00","text":"我跟你說啦，地方有一些員警就會以這個為由，他就會先問是不是跟性、跟性別有關，如果不是，他就會主動排除。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T09:54:47.965000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:54:49.326000+08:00","text":"委員，我做個建議，我跟你講實務上的問題……好。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T09:54:50.206000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:55:02.276000+08:00","text":"因為跟騷法是對於女性、性別暴力其中的一個法，包括家暴、性侵，還有性騷擾……對啦！","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T09:55:02.276000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T09:55:03.276000+08:00","text":"這個大家都知道，你的建議是什麼？","quality":0},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T09:55:02.276000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:55:33.687000+08:00","text":"整體的主軸就是這個，至於一般的跟騷，我建議修社秩法，一般的就到社秩法那邊去，包括相關的責任，因為那邊的跟騷，我們也有提議要……就講比較簡單的，像現在的偷拍這一類的就都到社秩法那邊去，但是它的處罰沒那麼重，可以修社秩法。","quality":0.804},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T09:55:34.147000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:55:35.408000+08:00","text":"那你們提出來啊！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T09:55:35.408000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:55:41.271000+08:00","text":"提出配套來說服我們，因為現在那個也沒有，這個也不要、那邊也沒有，就是沒有配套啊！","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T09:55:42.371000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:55:51.036000+08:00","text":"現在所有案件沒有符合與性或性別有關的，會跑到社秩法、刑法，甚至組織犯罪或者是其他……","quality":0.703},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T09:55:52.097000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:55:54.659000+08:00","text":"署長，如果說現在是很完整，民間團體就不會倡議修法了，就是現在有漏洞，民間團體才會倡議應該要從寬。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-07-06T09:56:04.286000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:56:18.732000+08:00","text":"委員，我一起回應您剛所提議的這些爭議點，當時要送跟騷法的時候我是立法委員，我是同意的，因為我們同樣是婦女都知道，其實在跟騷法裡面的被害者大部分都是女性。是啊！","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T09:56:18.952000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:56:19.332000+08:00","text":"八成八。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-07-06T09:56:19.853000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:56:32.818000+08:00","text":"但是跟騷法也好，或是社秩法或是跟性有關的性侵害防治法或家暴法，裡面很大的一個點就是要告知社會大眾，必須要讓警方受理。是啊！","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-07-06T09:56:33.598000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:56:44.762000+08:00","text":"警方受理之後再判斷是否用跟騷法或是社維法、或者是性侵害防治法，他們會跟受害者或是被害者解釋。然後……","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T09:56:45.363000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:56:45.923000+08:00","text":"現在實務上是警方有不受理的情況，好不好？","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-07-06T09:56:48.804000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:56:51.166000+08:00","text":"如果警方不受理，我們就要加強教育。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-07-06T09:56:51.286000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:57:00.092000+08:00","text":"我先跟委員報告，如果他們判斷出來是跟騷法的時候，警方的第一次提醒大概有百分之九十會抑止這樣的加害行為，百分之十左右才會送到法院聲請保護令，所以這個數據會有差距，這是一個。","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-07-06T09:57:00.092000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:57:29.999000+08:00","text":"再來就是我們另外一個需要處理的部分就在於網路犯罪，網路的犯罪會讓被害者心生恐懼，但是網路的部分，就像大家都知道，網路要找到真正的加害人在哪裡確實需要時間，但是如果警方所有資源能夠馬上處理的，我們一定馬上處理。","quality":0.99},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-07-06T09:57:30.599000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:57:47.654000+08:00","text":"所以關於這個部分，第一個，我們的書面報告已經跟大家報告，9成如果是警方受理跟騷法核發書面告誡的話，其實是可以達到第一次的遏止效果，而且日本的研究是可以達到八成左右。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-07-06T09:57:48.835000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:58:26.920000+08:00","text":"再來就是大家會比較擔心的，如果是比較嚴重，就是適用性侵或是其他家庭暴力法規的，整個法律系統是完備的，但是可能第一線員警會先問這跟性或性別有關，因為跟騷法要跟性或性別有關，但是他忘了提醒也許用社秩法是可以處理的，比如說男男之間或者是想要討債，甚至公寓大廈管理條例的鄰居跟鄰居之間，都有處理的方案，如果這些方案有不足的地方，我們在第一線的警員在法律上如何處理得更好，我們會來加強。好。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T09:58:28.261000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:59:03.281000+08:00","text":"部長，我要告訴你，現在實務上就是處理不好，沒有周全，也沒有配套，所以民間團體才會倡議，希望直接從跟騷法修法，怎麼樣縮短核發保護令及禁制令的時間，還有就是剛剛你特別提到了，網路上面有一些被害人的個資也被傳播，或者是在網路上被騷擾，這個都是當時4年前修法的時候我們沒有看到的漏洞。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T09:59:03.942000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:59:15.644000+08:00","text":"我覺得這個修法就像剛剛部長講的，你當時也是立法委員，你也是贊成的，當時內政部的態度就是4年以後當然可以檢討，那我們現在就是要檢討。","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T09:59:15.644000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:59:26.732000+08:00","text":"但是你們剛剛講的那些配套，你們根本沒有提出方案，包括署長說可以修其他法令，你們也沒有提出一個相對的配套修法。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T09:59:27.192000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:59:58.425000+08:00","text":"所以我是不是可以要求你們在1個月內把要配套的相關修法，還有剛剛部長說的怎麼樣讓基層員警每一個個案都不漏接，而不是直接用擋的、直接說不符合與性或性別有關就擋掉了，然後也不知道下文是什麼，因為基層員警可能也沒有告訴他還有哪一些路可以走，你們可不可以1個月之內提出相關配套更完整的修法，或者是相關配套機制的報告？","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T09:59:58.686000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T09:59:58.886000+08:00","text":"可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T09:59:58.886000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:00:02.784000+08:00","text":"署長或是部長要回答？","quality":0.222},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T10:00:02.784000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:00:13.867000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們的報告大概7月份會有一些指引出來，包括中正、警大的資料，還有實務單位的資料在7月份要出來，是不是再給我們一點時間？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T10:00:13.867000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:00:13.967000+08:00","text":"就1個月啊！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T10:00:14.147000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:00:14.507000+08:00","text":"但是那些可能要7月才會出來……","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T10:00:14.507000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:00:15.227000+08:00","text":"現在已經7月了，你要多久？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T10:00:15.347000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:00:17.087000+08:00","text":"我要你們完整的檢討報告，因為民間團體對這個是很期待的。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T10:00:26.429000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:00:29.051000+08:00","text":"是不是把警大跟……2個月？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T10:00:29.591000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:00:30.692000+08:00","text":"就2個月，可以了？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T10:00:30.692000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:00:32.052000+08:00","text":"好，2個月。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T10:00:32.052000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:00:36.815000+08:00","text":"因為這件事情涉及保護婦女安全的問題，你們應該要予以重視。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T10:00:36.815000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:00:37.875000+08:00","text":"我們在9月以前，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T10:00:37.875000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:00:38.875000+08:00","text":"就8月底啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T10:00:38.436000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:00:38.636000+08:00","text":"9月以前。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T10:00:41.857000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:00:43.038000+08:00","text":"8月底提出來。9月啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T10:00:44.519000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:00:44.859000+08:00","text":"9月的什麼時候？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-07-06T10:00:44.859000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:00:50.222000+08:00","text":"2個月……這個會期……","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T10:00:50.222000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:00:51.822000+08:00","text":"部長數學不好……9月底。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T10:00:52.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:00:54.244000+08:00","text":"9月底不是2個月，就2個月嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T10:00:55.624000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:00:56.446000+08:00","text":"現在7月初啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T10:00:57.447000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:00:59.010000+08:00","text":"就是兩個月啦，不要再argue了啦。好、好……","quality":0.611},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T10:00:59.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:01:03.056000+08:00","text":"主席、召委，就兩個月啦，好不好？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-07-06T10:01:03.997000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:01:05.800000+08:00","text":"好啦，就兩個月要提出來，從今天開始起算，謝謝。好。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-06T10:01:06.300000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:01:08.300000+08:00","text":"謝謝王育敏委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-06T10:01:08.600000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:01:11.742857+08:00","text":"接下來請張宏陸委員詢答。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":327,"blocks":[["王委員育敏：（9時51分）謝謝主席，有請劉部長，還有張署長、司法院楊法官。"],["張署長榮興：委員好。"],["王委員育敏：署長好。有關這次的跟騷法修法，2016年開始啟動修法的時候，在座的部長跟署長都不在任，我記得當時修法的時候，事實上內政部是一直抗拒，到最後逼不得已，因為我記得在第9屆出了委員會之後已經送到院會，但是當時的民進黨總召柯建銘總召就要把它拉下來，不讓這個法案三讀通過，所以從第9屆又延到第10屆，好不容易2022年真的正式通過了，當時通過的時候的內政部部長叫徐國勇，內政部發出新聞稿告訴大家，很高興跟蹤騷擾防制法通過了，我們會持續精進檢討！也就是說，這個法已經上路4年，這4年來出現了任何問題，應該是要持續精進檢討，但是很遺憾，你們的書面報告都覺得現在做得很好。","所以，第一個我要講的就是現在這些破口，你們如果都不修法，到底要怎麼去改善？首先我們就用個案來看，汶汶案中他在攝影棚被持刀攻擊，行為人就是長期在追蹤汶汶的人，現在都不修法，請問用現在的性騷擾防治法有辦法處理嗎？來，署長請回答。"],["張署長榮興：報告委員，所有案件一定是要讓警察知悉，而汶汶案也是在報章雜誌報導之後，我們第一時間介入，介入之後就即時處理，包括當事人也被聲押，不是只有跟騷，也結合傷害、殺人未遂來聲押……"],["王委員育敏：對，這已經很嚴重了，這是後面了。"],["張署長榮興：對……"],["王委員育敏：我的意思是像這樣的案件……"],["張署長榮興：所有案件就是要鼓勵所有被跟蹤騷擾的人第一時間一定要來報案。"],["王委員育敏：對。"],["張署長榮興：一定要報案，沒報案我們警察機關不會知道。"],["王委員育敏：是。但報案的要件，署長，你知道嗎？"],["張署長榮興：我們都會受理，第一個……"],["王委員育敏：報案就會受理嗎？"],["張署長榮興：都會受理。"],["王委員育敏：不是要認定跟性有關的才受理嗎？"],["張署長榮興：我剛才已經講了：第一個就是被跟騷的人描述被跟騷的情形；第二部分就是有沒有反覆的狀況、心裡產生畏懼。比如說這是一個女性，對於男性這樣的行為，我們會問這個被跟的女性是什麼樣的狀況，一定是暗戀或怎麼樣，對於被害人的描述，我們當然會受理。另外，如果沒有……"],["王委員育敏：署長，你如果現在從寬認定，可以……"],["張署長榮興：對，從寬認定。"],["王委員育敏：我們就回到這次的修法，刪除「與性或性別有關」的要件為什麼不可以？為什麼你們反對？"],["張署長榮興：我覺得這個範圍很大，因為其他的跟騷在社秩法、在刑法或其他法律都有規範，就是一般的跟騷在社秩法也有規範。"],["王委員育敏：所以我們就回頭檢討，認為應該要修法，民間團體也覺得現在的做法就是限縮……"],["張署長榮興：對，如果說……"],["王委員育敏：我跟你說啦，地方有一些員警就會以這個為由，他就會先問是不是跟性、跟性別有關，如果不是，他就會主動排除。"],["張署長榮興：委員，我做個建議，我跟你講實務上的問題……"],["王委員育敏：好。"],["張署長榮興：因為跟騷法是對於女性、性別暴力其中的一個法，包括家暴、性侵，還有性騷擾……"],["王委員育敏：對啦！這個大家都知道，你的建議是什麼？"],["張署長榮興：整體的主軸就是這個，至於一般的跟騷，我建議修社秩法，一般的就到社秩法那邊去，包括相關的責任，因為那邊的跟騷，我們也有提議要……就講比較簡單的，像現在的偷拍這一類的就都到社秩法那邊去，但是它的處罰沒那麼重，可以修社秩法。"],["王委員育敏：那你們提出來啊！提出配套來說服我們，因為現在那個也沒有，這個也不要、那邊也沒有，就是沒有配套啊！"],["張署長榮興：現在所有案件沒有符合與性或性別有關的，會跑到社秩法、刑法，甚至組織犯罪或者是其他……"],["王委員育敏：署長，如果說現在是很完整，民間團體就不會倡議修法了，就是現在有漏洞，民間團體才會倡議應該要從寬。"],["劉部長世芳：委員，我一起回應您剛所提議的這些爭議點，當時要送跟騷法的時候我是立法委員，我是同意的，因為我們同樣是婦女都知道，其實在跟騷法裡面的被害者大部分都是女性。"],["王委員育敏：是啊！八成八。"],["劉部長世芳：但是跟騷法也好，或是社秩法或是跟性有關的性侵害防治法或家暴法，裡面很大的一個點就是要告知社會大眾，必須要讓警方受理。"],["王委員育敏：是啊！"],["劉部長世芳：警方受理之後再判斷是否用跟騷法或是社維法、或者是性侵害防治法，他們會跟受害者或是被害者解釋。然後……"],["王委員育敏：現在實務上是警方有不受理的情況，好不好？"],["劉部長世芳：如果警方不受理，我們就要加強教育。我先跟委員報告，如果他們判斷出來是跟騷法的時候，警方的第一次提醒大概有百分之九十會抑止這樣的加害行為，百分之十左右才會送到法院聲請保護令，所以這個數據會有差距，這是一個。","再來就是我們另外一個需要處理的部分就在於網路犯罪，網路的犯罪會讓被害者心生恐懼，但是網路的部分，就像大家都知道，網路要找到真正的加害人在哪裡確實需要時間，但是如果警方所有資源能夠馬上處理的，我們一定馬上處理。所以關於這個部分，第一個，我們的書面報告已經跟大家報告，9成如果是警方受理跟騷法核發書面告誡的話，其實是可以達到第一次的遏止效果，而且日本的研究是可以達到八成左右。","再來就是大家會比較擔心的，如果是比較嚴重，就是適用性侵或是其他家庭暴力法規的，整個法律系統是完備的，但是可能第一線員警會先問這跟性或性別有關，因為跟騷法要跟性或性別有關，但是他忘了提醒也許用社秩法是可以處理的，比如說男男之間或者是想要討債，甚至公寓大廈管理條例的鄰居跟鄰居之間，都有處理的方案，如果這些方案有不足的地方，我們在第一線的警員在法律上如何處理得更好，我們會來加強。"],["王委員育敏：好。部長，我要告訴你，現在實務上就是處理不好，沒有周全，也沒有配套，所以民間團體才會倡議，希望直接從跟騷法修法，怎麼樣縮短核發保護令及禁制令的時間，還有就是剛剛你特別提到了，網路上面有一些被害人的個資也被傳播，或者是在網路上被騷擾，這個都是當時4年前修法的時候我們沒有看到的漏洞。","我覺得這個修法就像剛剛部長講的，你當時也是立法委員，你也是贊成的，當時內政部的態度就是4年以後當然可以檢討，那我們現在就是要檢討。但是你們剛剛講的那些配套，你們根本沒有提出方案，包括署長說可以修其他法令，你們也沒有提出一個相對的配套修法。","所以我是不是可以要求你們在1個月內把要配套的相關修法，還有剛剛部長說的怎麼樣讓基層員警每一個個案都不漏接，而不是直接用擋的、直接說不符合與性或性別有關就擋掉了，然後也不知道下文是什麼，因為基層員警可能也沒有告訴他還有哪一些路可以走，你們可不可以1個月之內提出相關配套更完整的修法，或者是相關配套機制的報告？可以嗎？署長或是部長要回答？"],["張署長榮興：報告委員，我們的報告大概7月份會有一些指引出來，包括中正、警大的資料，還有實務單位的資料在7月份要出來，是不是再給我們一點時間？"],["王委員育敏：就1個月啊！"],["張署長榮興：但是那些可能要7月才會出來……"],["王委員育敏：現在已經7月了，你要多久？我要你們完整的檢討報告，因為民間團體對這個是很期待的。"],["張署長榮興：是不是把警大跟……"],["王委員育敏：2個月？就2個月，可以了？"],["張署長榮興：好，2個月。"],["王委員育敏：因為這件事情涉及保護婦女安全的問題，你們應該要予以重視。"],["張署長榮興：我們在9月以前，好不好？"],["王委員育敏：就8月底啊！"],["張署長榮興：9月以前。"],["王委員育敏：8月底提出來。"],["張署長榮興：9月啦！"],["王委員育敏：9月的什麼時候？"],["劉部長世芳：2個月……這個會期……"],["王委員育敏：部長數學不好……"],["張署長榮興：9月底。"],["王委員育敏：9月底不是2個月，就2個月嘛！現在7月初啊！就是兩個月啦，不要再argue了啦。"],["張署長榮興：好、好……"],["王委員育敏：主席、召委，就兩個月啦，好不好？好啦，就兩個月要提出來，從今天開始起算，謝謝。"],["張署長榮興：好。"],["主席：謝謝王育敏委員。","接下來請張宏陸委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":66,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-5-15,26-1","speakers":["李柏毅","林月琴","王育敏","張智倫","王美惠","張宏陸","黃捷","廖先翔","王鴻薇","黃秀芳","劉建國","吳琪銘","徐欣瑩","蘇巧慧","高金素梅","許忠信","陳菁徽","張雅琳","王正旭","廖偉翔","林淑芬"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2026-07-06"],"gazette_id":"1155801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155801_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期內政、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員林月琴等21人擬具「跟蹤騷擾防制法部分條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員王育敏\n等16人擬具「跟蹤騷擾防制法部分條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「跟蹤騷\n擾防制法第二條及第四條條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員羅明才等18人擬具「跟蹤騷擾防制法\n第十二條條文修正草案」案；五、審查委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「跟蹤騷擾防制法第十二條條文修\n正草案」案；六、審查委員翁曉玲等23 人擬具「跟蹤騷擾防制法第十二條條文修正草案」案；\n七、審查委員蘇清泉等29人擬具「跟蹤騷擾防制法第十二條條文修正草案」案；八、審查委員廖\n先翔等22人擬具「跟蹤騷擾防制法第三條、第四條及第九條條文修正草案」案；九、審查台灣民\n眾黨黨團擬具「跟蹤騷擾防制法第二條、第五條及第十二條條文修正草案」案；十、審查委員林\n宜瑾等18 人擬具「跟蹤騷擾防制法第五條條文修正草案」案；十一、審查委員陳瑩等 19 人擬具\n「跟蹤騷擾防制法第五條條文修正草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1155801_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}