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所以我要問說這個成效如何因為執法授權你們定案你們有這個權利啊 有這個權限啊我不知道執行的效果如何啊這個可能很多人都沒有注意到啊沒有 這個目前從這個法過到現在依照之前申請保護令有80件好 成立的有多少"},{"start":237.061,"end":251.378,"text":"就是有80件他有核發保護令的啊就是法官跟申請啊那個法官有準我知道啦我知道啦你現在準的是80件啦申請幾件你現在手頭上沒有資料啦齁"},{"start":253.527,"end":274.456,"text":"好啦沒有關係啦我只是因為母法裡面是有規定很清楚但施行細則裡面也授權給你們這個我只是要知道說那你們的去執行的如何我覺得這個很多人也沒有注意到啊但有這個啊對不對這等於母法"},{"start":276.037,"end":302.874,"text":"裡面是一定要有書面告誡啊但我們已經授權你有很多緊急的事情可以直接處理喔這個是你們的上方保健啊我就要問問你們用的如何啊這沒關係你會後再給我資料就好了你會後再給我資料就好了你這個可以去讓很多人知道說什麼啊這個平均啊什麼三十幾天什麼的我要了解的就是有這個啦好你會後再給我那再來啊現在啊"},{"start":306.118,"end":310.628,"text":"欸 數位啊 跟監或什麼也很多啊我不知道 這個署長我們這邊啊 你們現在有什麼方法"},{"start":313.956,"end":342.569,"text":"那數位的這個部分當然就要知道是誰要去做跟監所以一定要調資料嘛就最主要要跟這個網路平台直接調他的那個他的使用者帳號的這個資料那這部分可能要配合數碼部的這些相關資料來做一個執行那確實現在這部分的時間大概要有一點時間剛剛很多人在問的就是我要了解他是不是在透過數位的這樣的一個跟監那調的資料"},{"start":343.769,"end":371.726,"text":"所以要核發書面的時間可能會稍微長一點那如果說受理事業確定是一個根操製造身份有時候我們製造確定之後我們當面就可以核發了核發的這個比例大概有25%這一個就是要現在科技的進步很多也不知道像我們以前這樣想的那麼簡單的事情那你們就是要去注意這一個另外"},{"start":374.457,"end":391.385,"text":"署長我們如果不管什麼社會秩序維護法不管什麼什麼的我們就跟騷法我跟騷法如果你有給我書面、告誡有給我什麼的話當我請徵信社區的話有沒有違法?"},{"start":397.498,"end":419.711,"text":"徵信社的部分就是除非能夠連結調查這個跟燒人連結有連結的話那這個部分是他的應該幫助這個應該是也可以共同去做這件事情所以我現在問你啊如果以我們現行的法令來講啊對不對有沒有違法其實他有個斷點喔對啊就是"},{"start":426.36,"end":433.962,"text":"跟的人如果跟他共同意識的話應該也會過程"},{"start":445.795,"end":456.605,"text":"如果共同意識的聯絡我署長我提出這個並不是你有沒有承認如果我只限在耕燒法裡面這裡是不是一個漏洞"},{"start":459.156,"end":474.822,"text":"這個不一定有不同的應該有其他法律的適用啦我剛剛已經一直講了如果只限耕燒法對不對我的前提已經是這樣了我的意思就是說啦齁這個耕燒法到現在你看署長你如果他跟這個"},{"start":476.451,"end":493.93,"text":"教說這個教說者同樣的這個意思那當然是有翻譯人應該是算了不是啦 署長我為什麼要提出這一個不是要考你啦但是就是啊發信耕燒法裡面還有一些漏洞私情的你 我跟你講 署長"},{"start":495.111,"end":498.956,"text":"再給我30秒喔署長你在這邊你都會猶豫了我們基層的員警他怎麼處理那我跟你講我如果說真心社喔他跟我講說這是商業糾紛啦什麼債務糾紛啦或什麼他講一堆沒有其他的意圖對不對沒有啦"},{"start":512.752,"end":532.002,"text":"這屌渣,你現在屌渣,基層的員警怎麼辦呢,太恨了我的意思就是說,這個啊齁,他就會有可能會閃過所以啊,今天跟燒法這個大家有說要來要來啊齁,要來修法,我的重點是在哪裡"},{"start":533.911,"end":561.446,"text":"我覺得啦我們今天開始這個那我剛剛聽到有很多委員說叫你幾個月叫你怎麼樣其實有很多事情還要去釐清我是希望說啊我們今天已經有這個了我們內政部警政署或是行政院也要去看然後我們提出更全方面的那我們不急著這一個月兩個月把這個處理好我覺得應該要更全面的去解決啦"},{"start":562.126,"end":567.193,"text":"希望你們也能夠提出你們的版本來這樣你們覺得如何?可不可以?"},{"start":571.072,"end":599.046,"text":"報告委員 我們需要比較多的時間來處理對啊對啊 我說時間要多一點啦施設多元啦 剛委員的提案的部分我想要跟委員報告一下我們目前警政機關在處理所謂的書面告誡因為它門檻比較低其實是很快就出去但是相對的也會出現困擾已經有行為人就是加害人就書面告誡的性質提出憲法訴訟案"},{"start":600.367,"end":623.106,"text":"要求我們要設計法院的救濟程序否則也會影響他的權益也就是說我們提書面告誡很快大部分人希望說趕快解決問題可是加拿大人覺得說我就不是啊但是我們這樣子的一個提書面告誡的時候沒有其他的處罰規定已經可以降低九成那如果我們再把他所說的要提這個憲法訴訟的部分再加進去的話這個九成會繼續下降"},{"start":624.867,"end":650.835,"text":"所以這就是我們為難的地方那目前為止呢當然有修法的空間譬如說我們警員的教育他是什麼法律適用要再加強或者是其他的我們跟法務部跟衛福部跟司法院要怎麼做連結跟數位部做連結快速可以處理這一塊我們會來做其他的監禁措施但是很匆忙上路只修短暫的一個部分把性跟性別刪掉的話整部跟騷法大概就沒有辦法完全處理這一塊"},{"start":652.856,"end":677.912,"text":"政府也能夠多多考量所以我的意思是說給你們多一點時間然後去全面去 我們不急著一兩個月之內把它修給你們多一點時間讓你們提出你們的版本那我最後一個不能講說基層的遠景怎麼樣我跟你講我們如果把它範例我們立法立好的話人家就好執行了"},{"start":679.462,"end":684.273,"text":"這個日新月異的東西不能所有的東西都是基層員緊扛這一點我要替他們講話謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:01:24.669000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:01:29.170000+08:00","text":"部長跟署長已經在那邊了。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T10:01:29.170000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:01:31.270000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:01:31.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:02:19.472000+08:00","text":"部長、署長，其實跟騷法也是一個新的立法，我記得當初在立法的時候有附帶決議，決議3年後應該啟動檢討跟改善，因為我們必須要說，目前的跟騷法，那時候在立法的時候，大家也會覺得這個範圍是不是夠廣或太窄，現在實務上發現有一些時間太長，比如書面告誡或禁制令，好像大家會覺得這個時間過長，我們其實在修法的時候也有考量到這些。","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:02:23.513000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:02:38.197000+08:00","text":"部長跟署長，我們那時候有說3年後應該啟動檢討與改善，我剛剛也聽了，有兩個大學有在做這些檢討跟改善的一些資料，不知道現在做得如何了？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T10:02:38.277000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:02:38.517000+08:00","text":"報告委員，大概就在7月會出來。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:02:45.287000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:03:12.485000+08:00","text":"7月會出來，但是我覺得現在基層的員警其實也有一個……我覺得我們如果沒有把它釐清楚，我真的替第一線工作基層員警感到很難過，到底是要用跟騷法，還是要用社會秩序維護法，還是要用其他的法律，其實很難去界定。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T10:03:14.446000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:03:41.525000+08:00","text":"其實如果第一時間被害人來報案，他被跟了，他第一時間講說他被迷戀、被愛慕等這一些，被害人講出來的第一時間經我們初判，可能就會跑到性或性別的關係，所以被害人的論述很重要，然後再根據被害人的論述再來做調整……","quality":0.717},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:03:42.086000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:03:45.889000+08:00","text":"我知道你說的這個，但你確定每個被害人都說得……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T10:03:46.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:03:47.010000+08:00","text":"我們會問他。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:03:47.210000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:03:51.573000+08:00","text":"不是啦，你確定每個被害人都說得很清楚嗎？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T10:03:51.573000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:03:54.255000+08:00","text":"沒有，他只要是……","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:03:54.255000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:03:59.139000+08:00","text":"這是一個重點，你說的那個，我知道，這是一個重點。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:03:59.279000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:04:24.118000+08:00","text":"再來，我們那時候授權子法，結果在跟騷法施行細則第十五條，我們讓檢警單位得以依職權直接向法院聲請保護令，免受母法書面告誡。","quality":0.855},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:04:25.679000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:04:26.900000+08:00","text":"這個到底做的成效如何？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T10:04:28.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:04:39.776000+08:00","text":"急迫性的這個部分，法院那邊不知道有沒有這樣一個狀況，就是保護令……這個……","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T10:04:50.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:04:51.196000+08:00","text":"這個案件應該不多。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:04:52.957000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:05:05.123000+08:00","text":"我知道，所以我要問這個成效如何，因為子法授權你們定，你們有這個權力、權限，但是我不知道執行的效果如何，很可能很多人都沒有注意到。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T10:05:10.246000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:05:14.088000+08:00","text":"從法通過到現在，依照職權聲請保護令的，有80件。","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:05:15.969000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:05:16.730000+08:00","text":"成立的多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T10:05:20.061000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:05:24.466000+08:00","text":"就是有80件是有合法保護令的，就是法院……你……","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T10:05:24.466000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:05:28.671000+08:00","text":"因為我們跟法院聲請，法官有准、有裁定的是80件……","quality":0.263},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:05:28.671000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:05:34.238000+08:00","text":"我知道啦，現在准的是80件，但是你聲請了幾件，你現在手頭上沒有資料？","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:05:36.527000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:05:37.427000+08:00","text":"好啦，沒有關係。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:05:39.848000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:05:49.292000+08:00","text":"因為母法裡面有規定得很清楚，施行細則裡面也授權給你們，我只是要知道你們執行得如何？是。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:05:49.292000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:05:51.493000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:05:51.493000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:05:56.175000+08:00","text":"我覺得這個部分很多人也沒有注意到，但有這個啊，對不對？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:05:56.175000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:06:05.201000+08:00","text":"等於母法裡面是一定要有書面告誡，但我們已經授權你有很多緊急的事情可以直接處理。對。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:06:06.602000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:06:09.824000+08:00","text":"這個是你們的尚方寶劍，我就要問你們用得如何？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:06:10.985000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:06:13.206000+08:00","text":"這沒關係，你會後再給我資料就好了。委員……","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:06:13.666000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:06:15.007000+08:00","text":"你會後再給我資料就好了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:06:15.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:06:21.291000+08:00","text":"你這個可以讓很多人知道，說這個平均要三十幾天什麼的。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:06:21.912000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:06:25.194000+08:00","text":"我要了解的就只有這個，你會後再給我。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:06:25.514000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:06:33.608000+08:00","text":"再來，現在數位跟監或什麼的也很多，署長，我不知道，你們現在有什麼方法？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T10:06:38.217000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:07:22.058000+08:00","text":"數位這個部分當然就要知道是誰要去做跟監，所以一定要調資料，最主要要跟網路平臺調使用者帳號的這些資料，這個部分可能要配合數發部這些相關資料來做執行，確實這個部分大概要有一點時間，剛剛很多委員在問的，我要了解他是不是透過數位這樣的跟監，要調資料，所以要核發書面的時間可能會稍微長一點，如果受理之後，確定是一個跟騷，知道身分，而且有時候我們知道、確定之後，我們當天就可以核發了，這個比例大概有25%。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:07:23.919000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:07:34.486000+08:00","text":"好，現在科技進步，很多也不是像我們以前想得那麼簡單的事情，你們就是要去注意這一個。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:07:34.486000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:07:54.365000+08:00","text":"另外，先不管什麼社會秩序法等等，我們只就跟騷法，依跟騷法，如果你有給予書面告誡等等，但我不動，卻請徵信社去，有沒有違法？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T10:08:00.498000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:08:14.626000+08:00","text":"徵信社的部分，除非能夠連結，調查這個跟騷的人有無連結，有連結的話，這個部分是他的幫助，應該也是可以共同去做這件事情，共犯的這些……","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:08:16.708000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:08:20.350000+08:00","text":"對啊，所以我現在問你，如果以我們現行的法令來講……","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T10:08:20.350000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:08:21.350000+08:00","text":"他委託他人去跟騷……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:08:20.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:08:21.631000+08:00","text":"有沒有違法？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:08:21.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:08:22.411000+08:00","text":"其實他有個斷點！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T10:08:22.411000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:08:23.411000+08:00","text":"對，就是他的這個連結、教唆啦！對啊！","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:08:23.411000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:08:24.411000+08:00","text":"我們就限定在跟騷法裡面，他這樣有沒有違反跟騷法？","quality":0},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T10:08:22.551000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:08:36.942000+08:00","text":"對啦，就是那個跟的人，跟的人如果跟他有共同意思的聯絡，應該也會構成。","quality":0.567},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:08:36.942000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:08:48.795000+08:00","text":"不是，我……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T10:08:48.795000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:08:50.056000+08:00","text":"如果有共同意思聯絡。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:08:51.298000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:08:59.585000+08:00","text":"署長，我提出這個並不是要……你有沒有承認，如果我只限在跟騷擾法裡面，這裡是不是一個漏洞？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T10:09:02.156000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:09:05.998000+08:00","text":"這個部分因為不同的……應該有其他法令的適用啦。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:09:06.638000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:09:12.280000+08:00","text":"不，我剛剛已經一直講了，如果只限跟騷法，我的前提已經是這樣了。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:09:12.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:09:16.282000+08:00","text":"我的意思就是，這個跟騷法到現在，你看！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:09:16.602000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:09:16.982000+08:00","text":"署長你……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T10:09:17.182000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:09:24.536000+08:00","text":"如果他跟這個教唆者同樣的意思，當然是有犯意，應該也是算。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:09:25.377000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:09:28.361000+08:00","text":"不是，署長，我為什麼要提出這一個？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:09:28.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:09:34.667000+08:00","text":"不是要考你，但是就是發現跟騷法裡面還有一些漏洞，在施行以後。","quality":0.704},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:09:38.331000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:09:39.593000+08:00","text":"署長，你在這邊都會猶豫了，我們基層的員警怎麼處理？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:09:39.773000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:09:41.856000+08:00","text":"我跟你講，我如果說徵信社的，他跟我講這是商業糾紛、債務糾紛或者什麼，他講一堆，沒有其他的意圖，對不對？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T10:09:41.856000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:09:42.856000+08:00","text":"委員，我們會調查啦。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:09:41.856000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:09:59.194000+08:00","text":"沒有啦，你現在調查，基層的員警怎麼辦呢？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:09:59.194000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:10:00.234000+08:00","text":"他也很難。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:10:00.234000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:10:15.002000+08:00","text":"我的意思是，他就有可能會閃過，所以今天跟騷法，大家有說要修法，我的重點是在哪裡？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:10:16.911000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:10:25.816000+08:00","text":"我剛剛聽到有很多委員叫你幾個月內要怎麼樣，其實有很多事情還要去釐清。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:10:26.656000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:10:49.432000+08:00","text":"我是希望我們今天已經有這個了，內政部警政署或是行政院也要去看，然後提出更全方面的，我們不急著在這一個月、兩個月把這個處理好，我覺得應該要更全面的去解決，希望你們也能夠提出你們的版本，這樣你們覺得如何？","quality":0.989},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:10:49.813000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:10:50.173000+08:00","text":"可不可以？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-07-06T10:10:54.072000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:10:58.394000+08:00","text":"報告委員，那個我們需要比較多的時間來處理……對啊！對啊！","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:10:58.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:10:59.275000+08:00","text":"我說時間要多一點。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-07-06T10:10:59.775000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:11:27.310000+08:00","text":"因為事涉多元，剛剛委員提案的部分，我想跟委員報告一下，目前警政機關在處理所謂的書面告誡，因為門檻比較低，所以是很快就出去，但相對的也會出現困擾，譬如已經有行為人，就是加害人，就書面告誡的性質提出憲法訴訟案，要求我們要設計法院的救濟程序，否則也會影響到他的權益。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-07-06T10:11:27.891000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:12:16.957000+08:00","text":"也就是說，提書面告誡很快，大部分人都希望趕快解決問題，可是加害人就覺得不是，但是我們這樣提出書面告誡而沒有其他處罰規定，已經可以降低九成了，如果我們再把他所說的提憲法訴訟的部分再加進去，這個九成會急劇下降，這就是我們為難的地方，目前為止，當然有修法空間，譬如員警的教育，針對適用什麼法律要再加強或者其他的，例如我們跟法務部、衛福部、數位部和司法院要怎麼做連結，可以快速處理這一塊，我們會來做其他精進措施，但如果匆忙上路，只修短暫的一個部分，把「性或性別」刪掉的話，整部跟騷法大概就沒有辦法完全處理這一塊，請委員能夠多多考量。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:12:17.597000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:12:28.424000+08:00","text":"所以我的意思是給你們多一點時間，然後全面去檢視，我們不急著一、兩個月之內把它修好，給你們多一點時間，讓你們提出你們的版本。","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-06T10:12:29.424000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-06T10:12:47.273000+08:00","text":"最後一個問題，就是不能講說基層員警怎麼樣，如果我們把法立好的話，人家就好執行，這是日新月異的東西，不能所有東西都讓基層員警扛，這一點我要替他們講話，謝謝！","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-06T10:12:47.773000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:12:48.915857+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-06T10:12:49.215857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:12:51.501571+08:00","text":"好，謝謝張宏陸委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-06T10:12:51.801571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-06T10:12:54.658714+08:00","text":"接下來請黃捷委員詢答。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":393,"blocks":[["張委員宏陸：（10時1分）部長跟署長已經在那邊了。"],["張署長榮興：委員好。"],["張委員宏陸：部長、署長，其實跟騷法也是一個新的立法，我記得當初在立法的時候有附帶決議，決議3年後應該啟動檢討跟改善，因為我們必須要說，目前的跟騷法，那時候在立法的時候，大家也會覺得這個範圍是不是夠廣或太窄，現在實務上發現有一些時間太長，比如書面告誡或禁制令，好像大家會覺得這個時間過長，我們其實在修法的時候也有考量到這些。部長跟署長，我們那時候有說3年後應該啟動檢討與改善，我剛剛也聽了，有兩個大學有在做這些檢討跟改善的一些資料，不知道現在做得如何了？"],["張署長榮興：報告委員，大概就在7月會出來。"],["張委員宏陸：7月會出來，但是我覺得現在基層的員警其實也有一個……我覺得我們如果沒有把它釐清楚，我真的替第一線工作基層員警感到很難過，到底是要用跟騷法，還是要用社會秩序維護法，還是要用其他的法律，其實很難去界定。"],["張署長榮興：其實如果第一時間被害人來報案，他被跟了，他第一時間講說他被迷戀、被愛慕等這一些，被害人講出來的第一時間經我們初判，可能就會跑到性或性別的關係，所以被害人的論述很重要，然後再根據被害人的論述再來做調整……"],["張委員宏陸：我知道你說的這個，但你確定每個被害人都說得……"],["張署長榮興：我們會問他。"],["張委員宏陸：不是啦，你確定每個被害人都說得很清楚嗎？"],["張署長榮興：沒有，他只要是……"],["張委員宏陸：這是一個重點，你說的那個，我知道，這是一個重點。再來，我們那時候授權子法，結果在跟騷法施行細則第十五條，我們讓檢警單位得以依職權直接向法院聲請保護令，免受母法書面告誡。這個到底做的成效如何？"],["張署長榮興：急迫性的這個部分，法院那邊不知道有沒有這樣一個狀況，就是保護令……"],["張委員宏陸：這個……"],["張署長榮興：這個案件應該不多。"],["張委員宏陸：我知道，所以我要問這個成效如何，因為子法授權你們定，你們有這個權力、權限，但是我不知道執行的效果如何，很可能很多人都沒有注意到。"],["張署長榮興：從法通過到現在，依照職權聲請保護令的，有80件。"],["張委員宏陸：成立的多少？"],["張署長榮興：就是有80件是有合法保護令的，就是法院……"],["張委員宏陸：你……"],["張署長榮興：因為我們跟法院聲請，法官有准、有裁定的是80件……"],["張委員宏陸：我知道啦，現在准的是80件，但是你聲請了幾件，你現在手頭上沒有資料？好啦，沒有關係。因為母法裡面有規定得很清楚，施行細則裡面也授權給你們，我只是要知道你們執行得如何？"],["張署長榮興：是。"],["張委員宏陸：對不對？我覺得這個部分很多人也沒有注意到，但有這個啊，對不對？等於母法裡面是一定要有書面告誡，但我們已經授權你有很多緊急的事情可以直接處理。"],["張署長榮興：對。"],["張委員宏陸：這個是你們的尚方寶劍，我就要問你們用得如何？這沒關係，你會後再給我資料就好了。"],["張署長榮興：委員……"],["張委員宏陸：你會後再給我資料就好了。你這個可以讓很多人知道，說這個平均要三十幾天什麼的。我要了解的就只有這個，你會後再給我。","再來，現在數位跟監或什麼的也很多，署長，我不知道，你們現在有什麼方法？"],["張署長榮興：數位這個部分當然就要知道是誰要去做跟監，所以一定要調資料，最主要要跟網路平臺調使用者帳號的這些資料，這個部分可能要配合數發部這些相關資料來做執行，確實這個部分大概要有一點時間，剛剛很多委員在問的，我要了解他是不是透過數位這樣的跟監，要調資料，所以要核發書面的時間可能會稍微長一點，如果受理之後，確定是一個跟騷，知道身分，而且有時候我們知道、確定之後，我們當天就可以核發了，這個比例大概有25%。"],["張委員宏陸：好，現在科技進步，很多也不是像我們以前想得那麼簡單的事情，你們就是要去注意這一個。另外，先不管什麼社會秩序法等等，我們只就跟騷法，依跟騷法，如果你有給予書面告誡等等，但我不動，卻請徵信社去，有沒有違法？"],["張署長榮興：徵信社的部分，除非能夠連結，調查這個跟騷的人有無連結，有連結的話，這個部分是他的幫助，應該也是可以共同去做這件事情，共犯的這些……"],["張委員宏陸：對啊，所以我現在問你，如果以我們現行的法令來講……"],["張署長榮興：他委託他人去跟騷……"],["張委員宏陸：有沒有違法？其實他有個斷點！"],["張署長榮興：對，就是他的這個連結、教唆啦！"],["張委員宏陸：對啊！我們就限定在跟騷法裡面，他這樣有沒有違反跟騷法？"],["張署長榮興：對啦，就是那個跟的人，跟的人如果跟他有共同意思的聯絡，應該也會構成。"],["張委員宏陸：不是，我……"],["張署長榮興：如果有共同意思聯絡。"],["張委員宏陸：署長，我提出這個並不是要……你有沒有承認，如果我只限在跟騷擾法裡面，這裡是不是一個漏洞？"],["張署長榮興：這個部分因為不同的……應該有其他法令的適用啦。"],["張委員宏陸：不，我剛剛已經一直講了，如果只限跟騷法，我的前提已經是這樣了。我的意思就是，這個跟騷法到現在，你看！署長你……"],["張署長榮興：如果他跟這個教唆者同樣的意思，當然是有犯意，應該也是算。"],["張委員宏陸：不是，署長，我為什麼要提出這一個？不是要考你，但是就是發現跟騷法裡面還有一些漏洞，在施行以後。署長，你在這邊都會猶豫了，我們基層的員警怎麼處理？我跟你講，我如果說徵信社的，他跟我講這是商業糾紛、債務糾紛或者什麼，他講一堆，沒有其他的意圖，對不對？"],["張署長榮興：委員，我們會調查啦。"],["張委員宏陸：沒有啦，你現在調查，基層的員警怎麼辦呢？他也很難。我的意思是，他就有可能會閃過，所以今天跟騷法，大家有說要修法，我的重點是在哪裡？我剛剛聽到有很多委員叫你幾個月內要怎麼樣，其實有很多事情還要去釐清。我是希望我們今天已經有這個了，內政部警政署或是行政院也要去看，然後提出更全方面的，我們不急著在這一個月、兩個月把這個處理好，我覺得應該要更全面的去解決，希望你們也能夠提出你們的版本，這樣你們覺得如何？可不可以？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，那個我們需要比較多的時間來處理……"],["張委員宏陸：對啊！對啊！我說時間要多一點。"],["劉部長世芳：因為事涉多元，剛剛委員提案的部分，我想跟委員報告一下，目前警政機關在處理所謂的書面告誡，因為門檻比較低，所以是很快就出去，但相對的也會出現困擾，譬如已經有行為人，就是加害人，就書面告誡的性質提出憲法訴訟案，要求我們要設計法院的救濟程序，否則也會影響到他的權益。也就是說，提書面告誡很快，大部分人都希望趕快解決問題，可是加害人就覺得不是，但是我們這樣提出書面告誡而沒有其他處罰規定，已經可以降低九成了，如果我們再把他所說的提憲法訴訟的部分再加進去，這個九成會急劇下降，這就是我們為難的地方，目前為止，當然有修法空間，譬如員警的教育，針對適用什麼法律要再加強或者其他的，例如我們跟法務部、衛福部、數位部和司法院要怎麼做連結，可以快速處理這一塊，我們會來做其他精進措施，但如果匆忙上路，只修短暫的一個部分，把「性或性別」刪掉的話，整部跟騷法大概就沒有辦法完全處理這一塊，請委員能夠多多考量。"],["張委員宏陸：所以我的意思是給你們多一點時間，然後全面去檢視，我們不急著一、兩個月之內把它修好，給你們多一點時間，讓你們提出你們的版本。","最後一個問題，就是不能講說基層員警怎麼樣，如果我們把法立好的話，人家就好執行，這是日新月異的東西，不能所有東西都讓基層員警扛，這一點我要替他們講話，謝謝！"],["張署長榮興：謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝張宏陸委員。","接下來請黃捷委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":66,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-5-15,26-1","speakers":["李柏毅","林月琴","王育敏","張智倫","王美惠","張宏陸","黃捷","廖先翔","王鴻薇","黃秀芳","劉建國","吳琪銘","徐欣瑩","蘇巧慧","高金素梅","許忠信","陳菁徽","張雅琳","王正旭","廖偉翔","林淑芬"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2026-07-06"],"gazette_id":"1155801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155801_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期內政、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員林月琴等21人擬具「跟蹤騷擾防制法部分條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員王育敏\n等16人擬具「跟蹤騷擾防制法部分條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「跟蹤騷\n擾防制法第二條及第四條條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員羅明才等18人擬具「跟蹤騷擾防制法\n第十二條條文修正草案」案；五、審查委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「跟蹤騷擾防制法第十二條條文修\n正草案」案；六、審查委員翁曉玲等23 人擬具「跟蹤騷擾防制法第十二條條文修正草案」案；\n七、審查委員蘇清泉等29人擬具「跟蹤騷擾防制法第十二條條文修正草案」案；八、審查委員廖\n先翔等22人擬具「跟蹤騷擾防制法第三條、第四條及第九條條文修正草案」案；九、審查台灣民\n眾黨黨團擬具「跟蹤騷擾防制法第二條、第五條及第十二條條文修正草案」案；十、審查委員林\n宜瑾等18 人擬具「跟蹤騷擾防制法第五條條文修正草案」案；十一、審查委員陳瑩等 19 人擬具\n「跟蹤騷擾防制法第五條條文修正草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1155801_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}