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Control你如果是中大型把AI的晶片導入可以執行這種致命重大的任務的時候這個指揮官在這個整個管制的過程的迴路裡面"},{"start":354.847,"end":377.64,"text":"這些通通要戰備規定 接戰規定的法律過程來要求這個同樣下一個階段就提到了我們國防大學的子參教育這已經進到中高階了也同樣要把這些先進的技術課程要導入國防大學在這個部分有沒有把它納入教學的課程"},{"start":380.02,"end":403.892,"text":"國防大學這邊說明,有關於軍事教育導入AI的課程,我們現在都有在做尤其是我們課程設計委員會這邊,我們校長都有召集各院院長來針對這方面做研討也把新興的相關的議題也都把它納進課程裡面做一個修訂跟修調所有的學分數也都有在增加,以上說明"},{"start":405.595,"end":427.598,"text":"我們大家都知道人力補食是一種壓力人口現在是負成長國防部也有完整的規劃各位看到我這張圖下面只是做一個提醒跟建議科技無法取代基礎的軍事素養科技跟傳統是要並重可是現在因為教學課程的更新"},{"start":428.737,"end":437.776,"text":"如果我们没有导入比较外面民间的先进科技的老师,而用君子老师在AI上,我们人数是非常有限的。"},{"start":438.632,"end":466.48,"text":"第二个培训是装备的操作手但是并不是一般的labor force但他也不是战术的指挥官所以我们一个就是说你的准则教范在操作系统的准则一个是作战的教范一个是操作手的准则这两个将来要同步精进那么AI功能是有限制的那我们将来这个云端如果是在国内有些还是要花钱的"},{"start":466.94,"end":485.428,"text":"所以整体的运用上面在学校的教学经费我提出一个建议就是经费要做增加那么那培养跨领域的保养人才我是不是请部长在这一点做一点回应是那个光大学有关那个他们现在是有一些"},{"start":485.948,"end":513.163,"text":"菌蚊子的比例我們現在正在研議將這個菌蚊子的比例這個範例把它打消掉那所以我們已經在檢討當中那他應該要修相關的這些規程那這個部分已經在進行當中所以我們會讓這些您提到的這些尤其是相關的這些新興的這些"},{"start":514.063,"end":534.011,"text":"科技的在教學上面的必要我們會適時的來引進這些那過去可能文子的這個老師他他要怎麼樣子來來聘這件事情我覺得我們要"},{"start":534.953,"end":555.885,"text":"當然基於學校自主的觀點,那我們設定一些就是說他們可以就他們所要的課程那這些系主任可以去根據他的課程需求,然後來訂立相關的這些標準那我們希望能夠吸引更多的文職人才進入這個我們的基礎教育裡面"},{"start":556.765,"end":558.127,"text":"退伍軍人退伍會執行單位"},{"start":575.249,"end":592.589,"text":"這是退伍跟委員報告一下就是退休的軍公交條新還是由行政院那邊跟相關的就是相關的部會協商後都是由行政院來決定是那我是不是可以做一個建言是提供參考好謝謝部長好謝謝委員好謝謝我們接下來"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-08T09:50:54.129000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T09:50:56.730000+08:00","text":"主席，有請顧部長、聯二次長。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T09:50:56.730000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T09:50:59.010000+08:00","text":"請顧部長、聯二次長。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T09:50:59.010000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T09:51:03.551000+08:00","text":"陳委員早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-08T09:51:03.551000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T09:51:05.231000+08:00","text":"部長早安。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-08T09:51:07.712000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T09:51:30.317000+08:00","text":"在進入今天的主題之前，因為我們政府有一位長官在他的社群媒體提到了這兩天大家都在討論的一個很熱門議題，就是中共潛射巨浪導彈，至於是巨浪-2、巨浪-3，那個路徑我想聯二都有掌握、分析。","quality":0.899},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-08T09:51:31.498000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T09:52:14.656000+08:00","text":"這邊要提醒注意的就是我們跟友好國家的情資匯集，往往並不在於即時，因為那不是立即的威脅，但是對於後面的部分，不管是公情或是其他情資交換後收斂出來的結果，我們可能要回溯，即對過去歷次試射做出一個共同圖像，這個部分我想請教聯二次長，您在這邊是不是簡單敘述一下，對於過去歷年來做的同樣軌跡，但是不同的目的、落點，不同的時間你們要做通盤的分析，作為以後對於威脅的預判，次長，您回復一下。","quality":0.785},{"speaker":"謝次長日升","start":"2026-07-08T09:52:16.536000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T09:52:19.057000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝委員的提問。","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝次長日升","start":"2026-07-08T09:52:19.057000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T09:52:56.475000+08:00","text":"剛剛委員的提問，我切成兩個部分來跟委員報告，第一個是我們根據過去長時間我們自己所累整的各種態樣，這個態樣是一個資料庫，從這個資料庫裡面再去跟剛剛您所提到的各個可能的友好國家，針對我們觀察到這些特殊徵候時，我們來交換彼此之間的意見，彙整完以後，我們再透過共同圖像的邏輯，把整理出來的東西跟部裡面的長官做報告。是。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-08T09:52:57.055000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T09:53:12.918000+08:00","text":"因為公情資料方非常多，但是未必準確，也可能是對方釋放出來要誤導方向，但因為也有人有時會在社群媒體暴露一些，希望做對應比較。","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-08T09:53:13.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T09:53:41.784000+08:00","text":"最主要就是這張圖是個示範，您可以看出來已經套疊了，有許多的圖，也用公情資料涵蓋它的範圍，再去比對媒體公布的資料，但是軌跡未必相同，落點未必相同，我想這是一個工具的方法論，提供給聯二參考，過去你們已經累積了很多基本數據，也有計算的方式。","quality":0.689},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-08T09:53:42.644000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T09:54:00.995000+08:00","text":"下一張圖是中共導彈的涵蓋範圍，對於鄰近友好國家的基地從關島到夏威夷，這個彈從哪裡打，我想這是一個基本的圖構，具體方向我們都可以提供做參考。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-08T09:54:02.156000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T09:54:16.148000+08:00","text":"我希望這個事情過後，為了能夠安定國內的民心，表示你們對整個狀況都有具體的掌握，這是我們要表達肯定、要大家共同努力的，聯二我就請教您到這邊。","quality":0.635},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-08T09:54:17.128000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T09:54:48.276000+08:00","text":"下面一個議題回到今天討論的主題，因為前面幾個委員也都提出建設性的建言，不管是人力需求，以及如何從不同的管道、不同的社會結構去找人進來，關於人才培養，我在這裡要跟部長做一些建言，因為人才不足，所以我們現在不是講體力要承擔多少負荷，而是你的腦力、你的專業。","quality":0.713},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-08T09:54:50.017000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T09:55:07.909000+08:00","text":"這部分是不是請聯一次長還有國防大學的教育長，我請教第一個問題，目前陸海空軍三軍官校，加上管理學院、政戰學院、指參學院，他們的修課學分現在是多少學分？","quality":0.537},{"speaker":"王次長智輝","start":"2026-07-08T09:55:09.232000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T09:55:11.033000+08:00","text":"我們是按照教育部的標準128學分。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-08T09:55:11.394000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T09:55:23.822000+08:00","text":"128學分，當年也是這樣，但是我建議要把學分拉高，因為只有學分需求拉高……你可以提高到146，以前曾經有過學校是156學分，為什麼呢？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-08T09:55:24.423000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T09:55:35.712000+08:00","text":"學分提高有兩個關鍵，第一個是教育投資經費要相對比例的增加，第二個就是要修現在新進的課程。","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-08T09:55:36.613000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T09:56:02.927000+08:00","text":"剛才部長也提到了，我們有很多要借重外面老師的專業，因為AI的導入是負荷、是挑戰，也是助力，現在大家都在用AI，也要付錢用AI，但是AI提供的答案未必是完整的、正確的，因此我建議在大學課程中要把這部分變成必修課，而不是選修課，因為這是躲不掉的。","quality":0.78},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-08T09:56:05.007000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T09:56:53.369000+08:00","text":"尤其大家都以為AI是工程，其實AI在這個「問」裡面的邏輯架構，都是哲學的思想，所以它不是純工程的問題，甚至涉及到很多法律問題，因為科技的進步，法規跟不上，就像現在我們講的自主式的無人載具，當它是小型的、個人操縱的，這叫remote control，如果是中大型的，把AI晶片導入，可以執行致命、重大任務時，指揮官在這整個管制過程的迴路裡面是human-in-the-loop、human-on-the-loop還是human-out-of-the-loop，這些通通要戰備規定、接戰規定的法律過程來要求。","quality":0.759},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-08T09:56:54.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T09:57:11.620000+08:00","text":"同樣的，下一個階段就提到了國防大學的指參教育，這已經進到中高階了，一樣要把這些先進的技術課程導入，國防大學在這部分有沒有把它納入教學的課程？","quality":0.954},{"speaker":"李教育長成中","start":"2026-07-08T09:57:11.620000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T09:57:14.020000+08:00","text":"委員好，謝謝委員的關心。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李教育長成中","start":"2026-07-08T09:57:14.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T09:57:36.851000+08:00","text":"國防大學這邊說明，有關於軍事教育導入AI的課程，我們現在都有在做，尤其是課程設計委員會這邊，我們校長都有召集各院院長針對這方面做研討，也把相關的新興議題納入課程裡面修訂跟修調，所有的學分數也都有在增加。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"李教育長成中","start":"2026-07-08T09:57:37.492000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T09:57:37.872000+08:00","text":"以上說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-08T09:57:39.595000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T09:57:53.750000+08:00","text":"我們大家都知道人力補實是一種壓力，人口現在是負成長，國防部也有完整的規劃，各位看到我這張圖，以下只是做提醒跟建議。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-08T09:57:53.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T09:58:11.756000+08:00","text":"科技無法取代基礎的軍事素養，科技跟傳統要並重，可是現在因為教學課程的更新，如果沒有導入外面民間先進科技的老師而用軍職老師，在AI上，我們人數是非常有限的。","quality":0.859},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-08T09:58:12.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T09:58:32.178000+08:00","text":"第二個是培訓裝備操作員，並不是一般的labor force，但他也不是戰術指揮官，就是你的準則教範在操作系統的準則，一個是作戰的教範，一個是操作手的準則，這兩個將來要同步精進。","quality":0.65},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-08T09:58:33.578000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T09:58:51.104000+08:00","text":"AI功能是有限制的，將來雲端如果是在國內有些還是要花錢的，所以整體運用上面，在學校的教學經費部分我提出一個建議，就是經費要增加，然後培養跨領域的保養人才。","quality":0.662},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-08T09:58:51.745000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T09:58:54.166000+08:00","text":"是不是請部長在這一點做回應？","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T09:58:55.086000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T09:59:33.965000+08:00","text":"是，國防大學現在設有一些軍文職的比例，我們目前正在研議將軍文職比例的藩籬打掉，已經在檢討當中，所以要修相關的規程，這部分已經在進行當中，我們會將您提到的這些部分，尤其是相關的新興科技在教學上的必要，我們會適時來引進。","quality":0.788},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T09:59:35.986000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:00:09.865000+08:00","text":"過去可能文職的老師要怎麼樣子來聘，這件事情我覺得我們要……當然基於學校自主的觀點，我們設定一些就是他們可以就其所要的課程，讓這些系主任可以根據他的課程需求來訂定相關的標準，我們希望能夠吸引更多的文職人才進入基礎教育裡面。謝謝。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-08T10:00:09.865000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:00:31.352000+08:00","text":"最後提一個建議，有關現役軍人的調薪已經通過了，因為退伍軍人的部分，退輔會是執行單位，是不是部長也可以考慮做退伍軍人待遇的調整跟檢討？","quality":0.213},{"speaker":"藍司長靜婷","start":"2026-07-08T10:00:31.352000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:00:40.342000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告一下，退休軍公教的調薪是由行政院跟相關部會協商後，都是由行政院決定。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-08T10:00:40.842000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:00:44.246000+08:00","text":"是，以上我是不是可以做一個建言提供參考？是。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"陳委員永康","start":"2026-07-08T10:00:44.767000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:00:44.907000+08:00","text":"謝謝部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2026-07-08T10:00:45.027000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:00:45.748000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T10:00:46.248000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:00:49.962286+08:00","text":"接下來請黃建賓委員上臺質詢。","quality":0.231}]},"gazette":{"lineno":211,"blocks":[["陳委員永康：（9時50分）主席，有請顧部長、聯二次長。"],["主席：請顧部長、聯二次長。"],["顧部長立雄：陳委員早。"],["陳委員永康：部長早安。在進入今天的主題之前，因為我們政府有一位長官在他的社群媒體提到了這兩天大家都在討論的一個很熱門議題，就是中共潛射巨浪導彈，至於是巨浪-2、巨浪-3，那個路徑我想聯二都有掌握、分析。這邊要提醒注意的就是我們跟友好國家的情資匯集，往往並不在於即時，因為那不是立即的威脅，但是對於後面的部分，不管是公情或是其他情資交換後收斂出來的結果，我們可能要回溯，即對過去歷次試射做出一個共同圖像，這個部分我想請教聯二次長，您在這邊是不是簡單敘述一下，對於過去歷年來做的同樣軌跡，但是不同的目的、落點，不同的時間你們要做通盤的分析，作為以後對於威脅的預判，次長，您回復一下。"],["謝次長日升：是，謝謝委員的提問。剛剛委員的提問，我切成兩個部分來跟委員報告，第一個是我們根據過去長時間我們自己所累整的各種態樣，這個態樣是一個資料庫，從這個資料庫裡面再去跟剛剛您所提到的各個可能的友好國家，針對我們觀察到這些特殊徵候時，我們來交換彼此之間的意見，彙整完以後，我們再透過共同圖像的邏輯，把整理出來的東西跟部裡面的長官做報告。"],["陳委員永康：是。因為公情資料方非常多，但是未必準確，也可能是對方釋放出來要誤導方向，但因為也有人有時會在社群媒體暴露一些，希望做對應比較。最主要就是這張圖是個示範，您可以看出來已經套疊了，有許多的圖，也用公情資料涵蓋它的範圍，再去比對媒體公布的資料，但是軌跡未必相同，落點未必相同，我想這是一個工具的方法論，提供給聯二參考，過去你們已經累積了很多基本數據，也有計算的方式。下一張圖是中共導彈的涵蓋範圍，對於鄰近友好國家的基地從關島到夏威夷，這個彈從哪裡打，我想這是一個基本的圖構，具體方向我們都可以提供做參考。我希望這個事情過後，為了能夠安定國內的民心，表示你們對整個狀況都有具體的掌握，這是我們要表達肯定、要大家共同努力的，聯二我就請教您到這邊。","下面一個議題回到今天討論的主題，因為前面幾個委員也都提出建設性的建言，不管是人力需求，以及如何從不同的管道、不同的社會結構去找人進來，關於人才培養，我在這裡要跟部長做一些建言，因為人才不足，所以我們現在不是講體力要承擔多少負荷，而是你的腦力、你的專業。這部分是不是請聯一次長還有國防大學的教育長，我請教第一個問題，目前陸海空軍三軍官校，加上管理學院、政戰學院、指參學院，他們的修課學分現在是多少學分？"],["王次長智輝：我們是按照教育部的標準128學分。"],["陳委員永康：128學分，當年也是這樣，但是我建議要把學分拉高，因為只有學分需求拉高……你可以提高到146，以前曾經有過學校是156學分，為什麼呢？學分提高有兩個關鍵，第一個是教育投資經費要相對比例的增加，第二個就是要修現在新進的課程。剛才部長也提到了，我們有很多要借重外面老師的專業，因為AI的導入是負荷、是挑戰，也是助力，現在大家都在用AI，也要付錢用AI，但是AI提供的答案未必是完整的、正確的，因此我建議在大學課程中要把這部分變成必修課，而不是選修課，因為這是躲不掉的。尤其大家都以為AI是工程，其實AI在這個「問」裡面的邏輯架構，都是哲學的思想，所以它不是純工程的問題，甚至涉及到很多法律問題，因為科技的進步，法規跟不上，就像現在我們講的自主式的無人載具，當它是小型的、個人操縱的，這叫remote control，如果是中大型的，把AI晶片導入，可以執行致命、重大任務時，指揮官在這整個管制過程的迴路裡面是human-in-the-loop、human-on-the-loop還是human-out-of-the-loop，這些通通要戰備規定、接戰規定的法律過程來要求。","同樣的，下一個階段就提到了國防大學的指參教育，這已經進到中高階了，一樣要把這些先進的技術課程導入，國防大學在這部分有沒有把它納入教學的課程？"],["李教育長成中：委員好，謝謝委員的關心。國防大學這邊說明，有關於軍事教育導入AI的課程，我們現在都有在做，尤其是課程設計委員會這邊，我們校長都有召集各院院長針對這方面做研討，也把相關的新興議題納入課程裡面修訂跟修調，所有的學分數也都有在增加。以上說明。"],["陳委員永康：我們大家都知道人力補實是一種壓力，人口現在是負成長，國防部也有完整的規劃，各位看到我這張圖，以下只是做提醒跟建議。科技無法取代基礎的軍事素養，科技跟傳統要並重，可是現在因為教學課程的更新，如果沒有導入外面民間先進科技的老師而用軍職老師，在AI上，我們人數是非常有限的。第二個是培訓裝備操作員，並不是一般的labor force，但他也不是戰術指揮官，就是你的準則教範在操作系統的準則，一個是作戰的教範，一個是操作手的準則，這兩個將來要同步精進。AI功能是有限制的，將來雲端如果是在國內有些還是要花錢的，所以整體運用上面，在學校的教學經費部分我提出一個建議，就是經費要增加，然後培養跨領域的保養人才。是不是請部長在這一點做回應？"],["顧部長立雄：是，國防大學現在設有一些軍文職的比例，我們目前正在研議將軍文職比例的藩籬打掉，已經在檢討當中，所以要修相關的規程，這部分已經在進行當中，我們會將您提到的這些部分，尤其是相關的新興科技在教學上的必要，我們會適時來引進。過去可能文職的老師要怎麼樣子來聘，這件事情我覺得我們要……當然基於學校自主的觀點，我們設定一些就是他們可以就其所要的課程，讓這些系主任可以根據他的課程需求來訂定相關的標準，我們希望能夠吸引更多的文職人才進入基礎教育裡面。"],["陳委員永康：謝謝。最後提一個建議，有關現役軍人的調薪已經通過了，因為退伍軍人的部分，退輔會是執行單位，是不是部長也可以考慮做退伍軍人待遇的調整跟檢討？"],["藍司長靜婷：跟委員報告一下，退休軍公教的調薪是由行政院跟相關部會協商後，都是由行政院決定。"],["陳委員永康：是，以上我是不是可以做一個建言提供參考？"],["藍司長靜婷：是。"],["陳委員永康：謝謝部長。"],["顧部長立雄：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。接下來請黃建賓委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":222,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-35-26","speakers":["馬文君","王義川","陳俊宇","羅美玲","陳永康","黃建賓","王定宇","王安祥","沈伯洋","徐巧芯","牛煦庭","鍾佳濱","賴士葆","楊瓊瓔","陳冠廷","葉元之","黃仁","林楚茵"],"page_start":165,"meetingDate":["2026-07-08"],"gazette_id":"1155901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1155901_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第26次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「少子化衝擊下國軍人力資源政策與未來因應規劃」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1155901_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}