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揮拳事件跟這件事情是沒有關係的因為我覺得說不是 不會因為揮拳就是精簡你先啟動了信託精簡揮拳之後才有擴大精簡不是 擴大精簡那今天才是擴大精簡的最後的截止日是 謝謝委員的指正啦我的意思是說其實各位看因為我們的好 那過來你認不認同獨董失職這件事情獨董失職要由國泰金庫去看他們獨董有沒有"},{"start":221.863,"end":248.364,"text":"所以你不認為他有這個獨董失職所以你也不用去檢討你的宣傳門的條款嗎所以可以任意的任何的高官退休之後只要遵行現在最重一個刑事的審查我退休三年後就可以進入到非前五年任職的一個機構然後繼續的這個即使他們這樣的一個像這樣今天的案件獨董兩個副主委他都可以不用講話那獨董"},{"start":250.245,"end":259.869,"text":"他的功能何在他代表股東監理公司來參與這個重大決策那他的職務是什麼那是不是台灣就廢掉獨董算了你還不承認說獨董在這件事情是有失職的你還被葉蓋銘你還在敷衍連你都是門省啊連你主委都是國泰金控的門省啊"},{"start":278.576,"end":283.484,"text":"委員誤會了我沒有這樣講所以你認為獨董的角色是什麼在這邊沒失職沒有我說有沒有失職我再問一次"},{"start":288.004,"end":311.866,"text":"今天大股東蔡振宇痛批獨統失職 你認不認同這沒有模糊的空間 如果你說沒有好 那就送大家公平喔表示今天所有花了兩個禮拜委員我沒有這麼說 我沒有這麼說那有沒有失職我想有沒有失職要事實來認定啦 對不對那你的事實認定有沒有我們要做整體的評估 我不會在這邊做這樣所以這也是金錢的內容嗎"},{"start":318.451,"end":334.584,"text":"如果你是這樣子的答覆在國會殿堂面對現在損失權益損失的五萬名的股民你覺得這樣對得起公私治理你做一個今晚會主委的職責嗎沒有公私治理不好我們會來討論好主委你直球對決這三個問題今天你擴大經檢你到底查了什麼"},{"start":342.998,"end":368.968,"text":"我想跟委員報告 我們經檢 剛才郭委員也問到我們經檢也不方便在這邊跟我們說我們查到什麼 現在還在查好 你什麼時候公佈經檢結果在半年後嗎我們完成程序以後當我們做出這個 比如說假設真的裁罰報告我們都會公佈裡面的內容這是哪一個主管機關是經檢局嗎不是 是由經管會來做檢察局值 我們執行檢查動作檢察局局長要不要說明你什麼時候公佈我的這個經檢結果"},{"start":373.051,"end":386.42,"text":"報告委員 我們會盡快再處理盡快啊 半年後啊 夠不夠快當然不會拖這麼久 我們定是盡快的盡快是多久 兩個禮拜可以嗎今天最後一天了 兩個禮拜讓你整理資料也夠了吧"},{"start":387.803,"end":406.377,"text":"委員這個真的要看事實啦因為我覺得這樣一個一個大家這麼關注的問題壓一個時間一定要把他你又知道關注了你也知道這是重大事件了所以你還可以代做到你沒有辦法在這邊允諾說你到底要什麼時候公佈經檢不是經檢的報告我們講說我們要釐清事實才要公佈我們重點不是時間要把他本席要求兩個禮拜做得到嗎"},{"start":414.246,"end":436.415,"text":"這真的要按照事實來決定啦 真的委員所以半年 三個月我們能快就不會慢啊 這本來就是這樣啊我非常失望齁今天你在 你對於社會大眾矚目大家關注五萬人 五萬的股民受損然後公司要損失十億這樣子你還在這邊閃躲其辭好再來第二個"},{"start":440.197,"end":463.877,"text":"你認為現在的旋轉門迴避條款有沒有檢討的空間任何制度都有檢討的空間那只是說這個旋轉門迴避條款不是我們在這邊規範的是這是我們工人服務法規定的內容所以你認為在監管在治理監管會當中有沒有需要加嚴或者是應該怎麼的做檢討其實這件事情我們事後我們在內部都有做很多的檢討我們也承諾我們這個委員會針對這幾個議題我們都會來好好來檢討"},{"start":469.249,"end":490.284,"text":"所以旋轉門當中是你檢討的項目之一嗎對於他們兼職的規定我們會來檢討那對於說比如說這些利益衝突的方面這個都是我們檢討的重點也是會納入你的精檢的範圍嗎精檢的話他們本來就已經在做了所以這是第二個議題精檢之外你還有第二個議題嗎我們所有的跟這個有關的我們都可以檢討好 OK 那有第三個問題"},{"start":491.585,"end":496.107,"text":"針對這個監理盲區這180天在1月的時候金管會收到國泰投行的通報到6月的時候你們介入這個介入並裁罰現在也還沒有裁罰也沒什麼裁罰你們金管會針對這樣的半年的監理盲區你作為主委你要提出什麼樣的鐵丸手段做全面的清查"},{"start":514.614,"end":536.961,"text":"我想我們該做的都會做比如說像剛剛講的我們該檢討它內部的為什麼他們這些的內控制度會失靈是不是要有多重的這樣的一個通報機制確保這個東西不會有問題好 文西在這邊具體要求我對這個主委您現在我可以給你封個封號了你就做打派級主委"},{"start":538.548,"end":566.219,"text":"太極組委實問須答所以我在這邊具體要求兩個禮拜內第一個公佈擴大精檢結果第二個旋轉門利益迴避的這個條款啟動檢視擴大並強化的一個檢討報告第三個監理盲區的檢討你們的這個的一個檢討報告同步在兩個禮拜內這三份提出來"},{"start":567.372,"end":580.773,"text":"主委可以嗎我想委員的要求我們會照做但是這個內容還是要根據事實來做我沒有叫你虛假怎麼可以報虛假你當然跟著你當然實質怎麼監理你的報告什麼你就兩個禮拜就提出來啊"},{"start":581.792,"end":604.405,"text":"好我就做這樣要求可以喔好那就這樣以上我們拭目以待跟各位跟我們現在社會大眾針對這樣的重大精簡以及旋轉門迴避的這樣的一個檢討機制以及你們這180天的監理盲君兩個禮拜又對社會大眾說明好以上謝謝好謝謝我們結束林代化委員的質詢接下來請劉書斌"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:00:24.374000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:00:24.435000+08:00","text":"（10時）有請主委。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T10:00:24.595000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:00:24.736000+08:00","text":"請彭主委。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:00:24.736000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:00:34.394000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:00:34.394000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:00:56.106000+08:00","text":"主委，您啟動對國泰金控金檢，歷經兩個禮拜，金檢最後的截止日就在今天了，國泰金控的內控風暴，鐵拳掀開了治理黑洞跟監理失能，金檢到現在，你們要跟社會做什麼樣的交代？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:00:58.327000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:01:13.115000+08:00","text":"關於郭明鑑董事長，這裡有幾個時序，1月國泰投信的自我通報偶發事件，你們到了6月才開始實地的投入信託金檢，因為有了這個毆打事件，你們才展開擴大金檢。","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:01:20.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:01:51.136000+08:00","text":"鐵拳掀開的10億內控風暴，第一個，內控防線澈底崩盤，旗下8檔基金，集體、長期誤踩投資紅線；第二個，5萬名無辜散戶買單，預估國泰信託及整個金控集團的補償跟損失金額高達10億；第三個，大股東暴力干政，金控大股東與經理人權責邊界嚴重失序。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:01:51.496000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:01:53.476000+08:00","text":"以上就是這兩個禮拜多來，內控風暴所呈現的問題。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:02:03.699000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:02:08.882000+08:00","text":"另外，包括獨董門神化，金管會監理有沒有放水？","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:02:10.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:02:40.365000+08:00","text":"連大股東都痛批獨董失職，形同虛設，以及監理盲區，延宕半年怠惰的公文旅行，1月的時候國泰信託通報，你們為什麼拖到6月的時候才有一個……還沒有鐵拳事件，我認為你們的信託金檢也都這樣輕鬆帶過，可能都只是蓋章走過場。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:02:40.545000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:02:42.187000+08:00","text":"委員，不是的，待會有時間讓我說明一下。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:02:42.187000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:02:49.613000+08:00","text":"好，那您說明獨董門神化這件事情，就這個事件，獨董有沒有失職？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:02:51.018000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:02:56.320000+08:00","text":"我一一地回答委員的問題：第一個，公文旅行1至6月。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:02:57.460000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:03:14.065000+08:00","text":"上個禮拜星期三這個時間的部分就是最多委員在關心的，我已經重複好幾次說明這件事情，其實我們在收到通報的時候，不是一收到通報就會去做金檢，剛剛已經講過，這中間有經過非常多跟公司求證、查證、查核的過程。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:03:14.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:03:15.166000+08:00","text":"所以要經過半年是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:03:15.326000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:03:18.627000+08:00","text":"每一次只要通報，都要經過半年才啟動金檢嗎？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:03:19.667000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:03:29.913000+08:00","text":"不是所有的通報都要金檢，我想他通報已經是主動揭露這件事情，我們會要求他補件說明，做一些查核的動作。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:03:30.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:03:35.496000+08:00","text":"所以今天即使沒有這個揮拳事件，你們還是會啟動金檢，至於損失10億元，一樣就這樣帶過嗎？","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:03:38.478000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:03:44.079000+08:00","text":"不是，揮拳事件跟這件事情是沒有關係的，因為我覺得說……","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:03:44.079000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:03:45.079000+08:00","text":"主委，你在睜眼說瞎話！","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:03:44.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:03:45.299000+08:00","text":"不是，不會因為揮拳就金檢。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:03:45.999000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:03:48.940000+08:00","text":"你先啟動了信託金檢，揮拳之後才有擴大金檢。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:03:49.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:03:50.200000+08:00","text":"不是，擴大金檢……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:03:50.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:03:53.201000+08:00","text":"今天才是擴大金檢的最後截止日。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:03:54.081000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:03:54.681000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的指正。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:03:54.981000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:03:57.082000+08:00","text":"我的意思是說，其實各位可以看，因為我們的……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:03:58.102000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:04:00.582000+08:00","text":"你認不認同獨董失職這件事情？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:04:01.222000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:04:04.543000+08:00","text":"獨董失職要由國泰金控去看他們獨董有沒有……","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:04:04.863000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:04:07.705000+08:00","text":"所以你不認為有獨董失職一事？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:04:07.705000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:04:11.128000+08:00","text":"所以你也不用去檢討你的旋轉門條款嗎？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:04:11.128000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:04:34.325000+08:00","text":"所以任何的高官退休之後，只要遵循現在一個形式的審查，我退休三年後就可以任意的進入到非前五年任職的機構，即使像今天這樣的案件，獨董、兩個副主委都可以不用講話，那獨董的功能何在？","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:04:34.766000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:04:38.727000+08:00","text":"他代表股東監理公司來參與這個重大決策，那他的職務是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:04:38.747000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:04:39.387000+08:00","text":"是不是臺灣就廢掉獨董算了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:04:40.028000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:04:40.788000+08:00","text":"你還不承認獨董在這件事情是有失職的……","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:04:40.788000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:04:41.788000+08:00","text":"我沒有……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:04:41.148000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:04:41.388000+08:00","text":"你還在敷衍！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:04:41.388000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:04:41.828000+08:00","text":"連你都是門神啊？不是。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:04:42.148000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:04:42.829000+08:00","text":"連主委你都是國泰金控的門神啦！","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:05:01.576000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:05:03.439000+08:00","text":"委員誤會了，我沒有這樣講。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:05:03.439000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:05:05.563000+08:00","text":"所以你認為獨董的角色是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:05:05.563000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:05:05.863000+08:00","text":"在這邊沒失職？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:05:05.963000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:05:06.304000+08:00","text":"我是說，有沒有失職……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:05:06.304000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:05:14.868000+08:00","text":"我再問一次，今天大股東蔡鎮宇痛批獨董失職，你認不認同？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:05:16.009000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:05:18.130000+08:00","text":"這個沒有模糊的空間。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:05:18.130000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:05:19.130000+08:00","text":"沒有，個人可以發表……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:05:18.130000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:05:19.412000+08:00","text":"如果你說沒有，好！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:05:20.132000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:05:21.013000+08:00","text":"那就受大家公評囉！","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:05:21.894000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:05:24.917000+08:00","text":"表示今天所有花了兩個禮拜……","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:05:25.097000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:05:26.018000+08:00","text":"委員，我沒有這麼說。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:05:26.578000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:05:27.839000+08:00","text":"那有沒有失職？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:05:27.839000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:05:30.361000+08:00","text":"我想有沒有失職要就事實來認定，對不對？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:05:30.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:05:31.563000+08:00","text":"那就你對事實的認定，有沒有？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:05:31.903000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:05:34.245000+08:00","text":"我們要做整體的評估，我不會在這邊做這樣的評論。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:05:34.245000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:05:34.866000+08:00","text":"所以這也是金檢的內容嗎？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:05:34.866000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:05:41.451000+08:00","text":"我剛才說金檢的時候我們什麼都會做。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:05:41.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:05:54.382000+08:00","text":"主委，如果你在國會殿堂是這樣答復，面對現在權益損失的5萬名股民，你覺得這樣的公司治理對得起你作為金管會主委的職責嗎？","quality":0.698},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:05:55.302000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:05:56.403000+08:00","text":"公司治理做不好，我們會檢討。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:05:56.403000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:05:57.403000+08:00","text":"我們繼續……","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:05:57.403000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:05:58.403000+08:00","text":"這只是說，我上禮拜重申……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:05:56.403000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:05:57.584000+08:00","text":"好，你就直球對決這3個問題，今天你擴大金檢到底是查了什麼？","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:06:05.998000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:06:12.560000+08:00","text":"我想跟委員報告，其實剛剛郭委員也有問到，我們也不方便在這邊跟委員說我們金檢時查到什麼，現在也還在查……","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:06:12.781000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:06:14.901000+08:00","text":"好，你什麼時候公布金檢結果？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:06:14.901000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:06:16.102000+08:00","text":"等到我們……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:06:16.102000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:06:17.702000+08:00","text":"再半年後嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:06:17.702000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:06:23.825000+08:00","text":"我們完成程序以後，比方說當我們做出裁罰報告，我們都會公布裡面的內容……","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:06:23.845000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:06:25.345000+08:00","text":"這是哪一個主管機關負責的？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:06:25.345000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:06:26.726000+08:00","text":"是金檢局嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:06:26.726000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:06:30.307000+08:00","text":"不是，是由金管會來做的，檢查局只有檢查的動作。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:06:30.727000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:06:31.287000+08:00","text":"檢查局局長要不要說明？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:06:31.327000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:06:31.948000+08:00","text":"你什麼時候要公布我要的金檢結果？","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"賴局長欣國","start":"2026-07-08T10:06:36.051000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:06:38.093000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們會儘快處理。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:06:39.133000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:06:40.014000+08:00","text":"「儘快」是半年後嗎？","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:06:40.634000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:06:40.894000+08:00","text":"夠不夠快？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴局長欣國","start":"2026-07-08T10:06:42.255000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:06:43.776000+08:00","text":"當然不會拖這麼久，我們一定是儘快地……","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:06:44.397000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:06:46.538000+08:00","text":"儘快是多久，兩個禮拜可以嗎？可以。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:06:46.538000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:06:49.400000+08:00","text":"今天是最後一天了，兩個禮拜讓你整理資料也夠了吧！","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:06:50.803000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:06:58.789000+08:00","text":"委員，這個真的要看事實啦，因為我覺得這樣一個大家這麼關注的問題，壓了一個時間一定要把它……","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:06:58.869000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:06:59.670000+08:00","text":"你知道受關注了！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:06:59.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:07:01.591000+08:00","text":"你也知道這是重大事件了！","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:07:01.591000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:07:02.591000+08:00","text":"這當然知道。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:07:02.152000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:07:06.335000+08:00","text":"結果你還可以怠惰到沒辦法在這邊允諾什麼時候要公布金檢結果？","quality":0.679},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:07:06.335000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:07:07.095000+08:00","text":"不是，有關金檢的報告，我們要釐清事實才能公布……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:07:07.095000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:07:08.095000+08:00","text":"所以是一個月嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:07:07.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:07:08.196000+08:00","text":"重點不是時間，而是要把它釐清……","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:07:08.236000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:07:09.377000+08:00","text":"本席要求兩個禮拜做得到嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:07:17.246000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:07:18.927000+08:00","text":"這個真的要按照事實來決定啦！","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:07:19.147000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:07:20.207000+08:00","text":"真的，委員……","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:07:20.207000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:07:20.708000+08:00","text":"所以要半年？什麼？不是。","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:07:21.768000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:07:22.088000+08:00","text":"三個月？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:07:22.408000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:07:24.669000+08:00","text":"我們能快就不會慢，這個本來就是這樣啊！","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:07:25.210000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:07:39.275000+08:00","text":"我非常失望，今天你對於受社會大眾矚目、大家關注、有5萬名股民權益受損，然後公司損失10億的事，你還在這邊閃躲其詞……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:07:39.275000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-08T10:07:40.275000+08:00","text":"其實不是閃躲……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:07:39.295000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:07:48.141000+08:00","text":"好，再來第二個，你認為現在旋轉門的利衝回避條款有沒有檢討的空間？","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:07:48.141000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:07:56.588000+08:00","text":"任何制度都有檢討的空間，只是這個旋轉門條款不是我們這邊在範的，而是公務員服務法規定的內容。","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:07:57.189000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:08:02.933000+08:00","text":"所以你認為在治理上管會有沒有需要加嚴，或者是應該要怎麼檢討？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:08:02.933000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:08:06.877000+08:00","text":"其實針對這件事情，我們事後在內部有做很多檢討，我們也承諾委員會會針對這幾個議題都會好好檢討。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:08:12.469000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:08:14.991000+08:00","text":"旋轉門條款是你檢討的項目之一嗎？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:08:14.991000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:08:22.296000+08:00","text":"對於他們兼職的規定，我們會來檢討，對於利益衝突的防免，也都是我們檢討的重點。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:08:22.296000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:08:25.238000+08:00","text":"也會納入你們金檢的範圍嗎？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:08:25.859000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:08:27.020000+08:00","text":"他們本來就已經在做金檢了。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:08:27.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:08:30.522000+08:00","text":"所以這是第二個議題，在金檢之外你還有做第二個議題嗎？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:08:31.623000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:08:32.624000+08:00","text":"只要是跟這個有關的所有內容我們都會檢討。","quality":0.579},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:08:32.724000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:08:37.126000+08:00","text":"OK，第三個問題，針對這180天的監理盲區，在1月的時候金管會收到國泰投信的通報，到6月的時候你們介入，現在也還沒有裁罰。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:08:37.126000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:08:39.087000+08:00","text":"你們金管會針對這半年的監理盲區，你身為主委要提出什麼樣的鐵腕手段來做全面的清查？","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:08:57.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:09:06.857000+08:00","text":"我想我們該做的都會做，比方像剛剛講的，對於我們該檢討的，比如像它內部的……為什麼他們的內控制度會失靈？","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:09:06.857000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:09:11.238000+08:00","text":"是不是要有多重的通報機制，以確保這個東西不會有問題？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:09:11.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:09:49.219000+08:00","text":"好，本席在這邊具體要求，我對主委您現在……我可以給你一個封號，你就叫做「打太極主委」，因為你實問虛答，所以我在這邊具體要求：兩個禮拜內，第一個，公布擴大金檢結果；第二個，針對旋轉門利益迴避的這個條款要提出啟動、檢視、擴大並強化的檢討報告；第三個，對於監理盲區的檢討報告也要同步提出，在兩個禮拜內把這3份提出來。","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:09:50.372000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:09:51.514000+08:00","text":"主委，可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2026-07-08T10:09:51.794000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:09:56.041000+08:00","text":"對於委員的要求，我們會照做，但是內容還是要根據事實來做。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:09:56.382000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:09:58.485000+08:00","text":"我沒有要你虛假以對，怎麼可以虛假報告！","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:09:58.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:10:06.933000+08:00","text":"你實質怎麼監理，你的報告就要怎樣，就是要在兩個禮拜內提出來，我就是做這樣的要求，可以嗎？可以。","quality":0.683},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:10:07.293000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:10:07.994000+08:00","text":"好，那就這樣。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:10:07.994000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:10:22.122000+08:00","text":"以上，我們拭目以待，針對重大金檢的結果、旋轉門利衝迴避的檢討機制，以及你們這180天監理盲區的報告要在兩個禮拜後對社會大眾說明。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2026-07-08T10:10:22.802000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:10:24.343000+08:00","text":"以上，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T10:10:24.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:10:26.924000+08:00","text":"謝謝，林岱樺委員的質詢結束。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-08T10:10:26.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-08T10:10:27.385000+08:00","text":"接下來請劉書彬委員。","quality":0.667}]},"gazette":{"lineno":444,"blocks":[["林委員岱樺：（10時）有請主委。"],["主席：請彭主委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員好。"],["林委員岱樺：主委，您啟動對國泰金控金檢，歷經兩個禮拜，金檢最後的截止日就在今天了，國泰金控的內控風暴，鐵拳掀開了治理黑洞跟監理失能，金檢到現在，你們要跟社會做什麼樣的交代？關於郭明鑑董事長，這裡有幾個時序，1月國泰投信的自我通報偶發事件，你們到了6月才開始實地的投入信託金檢，因為有了這個毆打事件，你們才展開擴大金檢。","鐵拳掀開的10億內控風暴，第一個，內控防線澈底崩盤，旗下8檔基金，集體、長期誤踩投資紅線；第二個，5萬名無辜散戶買單，預估國泰信託及整個金控集團的補償跟損失金額高達10億；第三個，大股東暴力干政，金控大股東與經理人權責邊界嚴重失序。以上就是這兩個禮拜多來，內控風暴所呈現的問題。","另外，包括獨董門神化，金管會監理有沒有放水？連大股東都痛批獨董失職，形同虛設，以及監理盲區，延宕半年怠惰的公文旅行，1月的時候國泰信託通報，你們為什麼拖到6月的時候才有一個……還沒有鐵拳事件，我認為你們的信託金檢也都這樣輕鬆帶過，可能都只是蓋章走過場。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員，不是的，待會有時間讓我說明一下。"],["林委員岱樺：好，那您說明獨董門神化這件事情，就這個事件，獨董有沒有失職？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我一一地回答委員的問題：第一個，公文旅行1至6月。上個禮拜星期三這個時間的部分就是最多委員在關心的，我已經重複好幾次說明這件事情，其實我們在收到通報的時候，不是一收到通報就會去做金檢，剛剛已經講過，這中間有經過非常多跟公司求證、查證、查核的過程。"],["林委員岱樺：所以要經過半年是不是？每一次只要通報，都要經過半年才啟動金檢嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：不是所有的通報都要金檢，我想他通報已經是主動揭露這件事情，我們會要求他補件說明，做一些查核的動作。"],["林委員岱樺：所以今天即使沒有這個揮拳事件，你們還是會啟動金檢，至於損失10億元，一樣就這樣帶過嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：不是，揮拳事件跟這件事情是沒有關係的，因為我覺得說……"],["林委員岱樺：主委，你在睜眼說瞎話！"],["彭主任委員金隆：不是，不會因為揮拳就金檢。"],["林委員岱樺：你先啟動了信託金檢，揮拳之後才有擴大金檢。"],["彭主任委員金隆：不是，擴大金檢……"],["林委員岱樺：今天才是擴大金檢的最後截止日。"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝委員的指正。我的意思是說，其實各位可以看，因為我們的……"],["林委員岱樺：你認不認同獨董失職這件事情？"],["彭主任委員金隆：獨董失職要由國泰金控去看他們獨董有沒有……"],["林委員岱樺：所以你不認為有獨董失職一事？所以你也不用去檢討你的旋轉門條款嗎？所以任何的高官退休之後，只要遵循現在一個形式的審查，我退休三年後就可以任意的進入到非前五年任職的機構，即使像今天這樣的案件，獨董、兩個副主委都可以不用講話，那獨董的功能何在？他代表股東監理公司來參與這個重大決策，那他的職務是什麼？是不是臺灣就廢掉獨董算了？你還不承認獨董在這件事情是有失職的……"],["彭主任委員金隆：我沒有……"],["林委員岱樺：你還在敷衍！連你都是門神啊？"],["彭主任委員金隆：不是。"],["林委員岱樺：連主委你都是國泰金控的門神啦！"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員誤會了，我沒有這樣講。"],["林委員岱樺：所以你認為獨董的角色是什麼？在這邊沒失職？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我是說，有沒有失職……"],["林委員岱樺：我再問一次，今天大股東蔡鎮宇痛批獨董失職，你認不認同？這個沒有模糊的空間。"],["彭主任委員金隆：沒有，個人可以發表……"],["林委員岱樺：如果你說沒有，好！那就受大家公評囉！表示今天所有花了兩個禮拜……"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員，我沒有這麼說。"],["林委員岱樺：那有沒有失職？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我想有沒有失職要就事實來認定，對不對？"],["林委員岱樺：那就你對事實的認定，有沒有？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們要做整體的評估，我不會在這邊做這樣的評論。"],["林委員岱樺：所以這也是金檢的內容嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我剛才說金檢的時候我們什麼都會做。"],["林委員岱樺：主委，如果你在國會殿堂是這樣答復，面對現在權益損失的5萬名股民，你覺得這樣的公司治理對得起你作為金管會主委的職責嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：公司治理做不好，我們會檢討。"],["林委員岱樺：我們繼續……"],["彭主任委員金隆：這只是說，我上禮拜重申……"],["林委員岱樺：好，你就直球對決這3個問題，今天你擴大金檢到底是查了什麼？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我想跟委員報告，其實剛剛郭委員也有問到，我們也不方便在這邊跟委員說我們金檢時查到什麼，現在也還在查……"],["林委員岱樺：好，你什麼時候公布金檢結果？"],["彭主任委員金隆：等到我們……"],["林委員岱樺：再半年後嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們完成程序以後，比方說當我們做出裁罰報告，我們都會公布裡面的內容……"],["林委員岱樺：這是哪一個主管機關負責的？是金檢局嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：不是，是由金管會來做的，檢查局只有檢查的動作。"],["林委員岱樺：檢查局局長要不要說明？你什麼時候要公布我要的金檢結果？"],["賴局長欣國：報告委員，我們會儘快處理。"],["林委員岱樺：「儘快」是半年後嗎？夠不夠快？"],["賴局長欣國：當然不會拖這麼久，我們一定是儘快地……"],["林委員岱樺：儘快是多久，兩個禮拜可以嗎？"],["賴局長欣國：可以。"],["林委員岱樺：今天是最後一天了，兩個禮拜讓你整理資料也夠了吧！"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員，這個真的要看事實啦，因為我覺得這樣一個大家這麼關注的問題，壓了一個時間一定要把它……"],["林委員岱樺：你知道受關注了！你也知道這是重大事件了！"],["彭主任委員金隆：這當然知道。"],["林委員岱樺：結果你還可以怠惰到沒辦法在這邊允諾什麼時候要公布金檢結果？"],["彭主任委員金隆：不是，有關金檢的報告，我們要釐清事實才能公布……"],["林委員岱樺：所以是一個月嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：重點不是時間，而是要把它釐清……"],["林委員岱樺：本席要求兩個禮拜做得到嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：這個真的要按照事實來決定啦！真的，委員……"],["林委員岱樺：所以要半年？"],["彭主任委員金隆：什麼？不是。"],["林委員岱樺：三個月？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們能快就不會慢，這個本來就是這樣啊！"],["林委員岱樺：我非常失望，今天你對於受社會大眾矚目、大家關注、有5萬名股民權益受損，然後公司損失10億的事，你還在這邊閃躲其詞……"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實不是閃躲……"],["林委員岱樺：好，再來第二個，你認為現在旋轉門的利衝回避條款有沒有檢討的空間？"],["彭主任委員金隆：任何制度都有檢討的空間，只是這個旋轉門條款不是我們這邊在範的，而是公務員服務法規定的內容。"],["林委員岱樺：所以你認為在治理上管會有沒有需要加嚴，或者是應該要怎麼檢討？"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實針對這件事情，我們事後在內部有做很多檢討，我們也承諾委員會會針對這幾個議題都會好好檢討。"],["林委員岱樺：旋轉門條款是你檢討的項目之一嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對於他們兼職的規定，我們會來檢討，對於利益衝突的防免，也都是我們檢討的重點。"],["林委員岱樺：也會納入你們金檢的範圍嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：他們本來就已經在做金檢了。"],["林委員岱樺：所以這是第二個議題，在金檢之外你還有做第二個議題嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：只要是跟這個有關的所有內容我們都會檢討。"],["林委員岱樺：OK，第三個問題，針對這180天的監理盲區，在1月的時候金管會收到國泰投信的通報，到6月的時候你們介入，現在也還沒有裁罰。你們金管會針對這半年的監理盲區，你身為主委要提出什麼樣的鐵腕手段來做全面的清查？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我想我們該做的都會做，比方像剛剛講的，對於我們該檢討的，比如像它內部的……為什麼他們的內控制度會失靈？是不是要有多重的通報機制，以確保這個東西不會有問題？"],["林委員岱樺：好，本席在這邊具體要求，我對主委您現在……我可以給你一個封號，你就叫做「打太極主委」，因為你實問虛答，所以我在這邊具體要求：兩個禮拜內，第一個，公布擴大金檢結果；第二個，針對旋轉門利益迴避的這個條款要提出啟動、檢視、擴大並強化的檢討報告；第三個，對於監理盲區的檢討報告也要同步提出，在兩個禮拜內把這3份提出來。主委，可以嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對於委員的要求，我們會照做，但是內容還是要根據事實來做。"],["林委員岱樺：我沒有要你虛假以對，怎麼可以虛假報告！你實質怎麼監理，你的報告就要怎樣，就是要在兩個禮拜內提出來，我就是做這樣的要求，可以嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：可以。"],["林委員岱樺：好，那就這樣。以上，我們拭目以待，針對重大金檢的結果、旋轉門利衝迴避的檢討機制，以及你們這180天監理盲區的報告要在兩個禮拜後對社會大眾說明。以上，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝，林岱樺委員的質詢結束。","接下來請劉書彬委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":526,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-20-21","speakers":["李彥秀","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","林岱樺","劉書彬","李坤城","顏寬恒","賴惠員","陳玉珍","王世堅","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","王鴻薇","林思銘","羅明才"],"page_start":471,"meetingDate":["2026-07-08"],"gazette_id":"1156102","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156102_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第21次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分，有關財政部主管臺灣土地\n銀行股份有限公司、財政部印刷廠、臺灣菸酒股份有限公司（詢答）；二、審查中華民國115年\n度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分，有關金融監督管理委員會主管中央存款保險股份有\n限公司（詢答）；三、審查中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分，有關\n金融監督管理委員會主管：（詢答）(一)特別收入基金─金融監督管理基金、(二)信託基金─保\n險業務發展基金","agenda_id":"1156102_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}