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10:22:24","會議時間":"2026-07-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分，有關財政部主管臺灣土地銀行股份有限公司、財政部印刷廠、臺灣菸酒股份有限公司。（僅詢答）\n二、審查中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分，有關金融監督管理委員會主管中央存款保險股份有限公司。（僅詢答）\n三、審查中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分，有關金融監督管理委員會主管：（僅詢答）\n(一)特別收入基金－金融監督管理基金。\n(二)信託基金－保險業務發展基金。\n【7月8日及9日兩天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.599718750000001,"end":10.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.99471875,"end":16.011593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.011593750000003,"end":16.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.28159375,"end":16.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.46721875,"end":16.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.53471875,"end":16.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.63596875,"end":16.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.66971875,"end":16.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.70346875,"end":18.239093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.11659375,"end":21.090968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.765968750000003,"end":26.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":27.402218750000003,"end":54.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.85784375,"end":72.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.74534375,"end":73.30221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":73.58909375,"end":74.16284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.83784375,"end":83.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.74784375,"end":86.76846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.85284375,"end":93.95721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.56534375000001,"end":99.03659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.53909375,"end":96.91034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.15909375000001,"end":98.83409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.03659375000001,"end":111.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":111.96284375,"end":127.85909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.56409375000001,"end":125.96909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.24721875,"end":146.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":128.31471875,"end":128.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":130.87971875,"end":132.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.43846875,"end":157.03596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":157.03596875000002,"end":159.17909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":159.39846875,"end":160.41096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":160.76534375,"end":162.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.31784375,"end":162.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":162.36846875,"end":162.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":162.53721875000002,"end":163.02659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.02659375000002,"end":171.41346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.53159375,"end":171.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.54846875,"end":178.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.30284375000002,"end":177.31971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.52221875,"end":183.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.44534375,"end":183.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":183.78284375,"end":183.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.90096875,"end":183.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":183.96846875,"end":184.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.23846875,"end":184.89659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":184.89659375000002,"end":222.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":222.93284375000002,"end":223.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.35034375,"end":241.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":239.41971875000002,"end":247.03034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.03034375000001,"end":264.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":248.02596875,"end":249.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":262.72409375,"end":308.82659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.70409375,"end":356.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":343.82534375,"end":347.50409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":348.93846875,"end":349.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":349.93409375000005,"end":351.62159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.62159375000005,"end":351.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":356.05971875,"end":356.26221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":356.41409375,"end":356.43096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":356.56596875,"end":356.61659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.61659375000005,"end":357.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":357.96659375,"end":365.18909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":365.72909375,"end":366.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.03284375000004,"end":366.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":366.97784375000003,"end":385.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.60221875,"end":369.05346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.03409375,"end":392.15534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":389.43846875,"end":389.92784375},{"speake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謝謝主席那有請財政部莊部長請莊部長委員好部長好喔"},{"start":19.198,"end":35.975,"text":"新青安的上路到現在呢看到的是建屋的成交數增加了但是房價也增加了那財政部呢他原定是說6月底要公布到現在呢已經到7月了還沒有看到實際上的青青安2.0的內容"},{"start":37.396,"end":39.998,"text":"本席這次提出三個促進年輕人居住正義的對策想要來跟您討論首先我們看到公股銀行在這兩年的數據顯示核貸者在年齡50歲以上的超過了6700戶比例達到5.23%"},{"start":54.969,"end":56.87,"text":"年收入超過200萬的人有18000多人比例有14.38%那請問部長50歲叫做年輕人嗎200萬的收入還需要國家補貼利息來幫他成家嗎"},{"start":73.699,"end":80.803,"text":"請問部長跟委員報告在這個我們所謂的新清安執行以來我們對於年齡層有做一個統計40歲以下的貸款戶佔了72.48%50歲以下佔了94.61%我知道了部長我的數據上面就寫了50歲以上的5.23%這部分那我想你知道青年基本法當中的青年定義是多少嗎"},{"start":102.312,"end":125.907,"text":"跟委員報告 那未來我們在清安3.0的時候我們當然也會考慮委員所指教的這一點那對年齡的部分我們會納入考量好 這年齡的部分 再幫我句子加小話還包括是屬於年收入200萬的就是說這邊你們願不願意設定合理的生誕年齡跟收入上限把資源聚焦在真正處於成家階段的年輕人你剛剛是針對年齡已經說了嘛對"},{"start":128.348,"end":132.292,"text":"確實是盧委員所說的我們清安貸款確實是要協助沒有自有房屋的民眾來購物而且要用在所謂的真正需要協助的民眾所以在收入部分我們在清安的3.0裡面也會納入條件"},{"start":146.598,"end":168.491,"text":"好 那大家說這個條件大概是 所以就是會應該會有一個上限的限制是嗎對 就是超過一定的收入的話 並不在這個適用的範圍內這是我們會考慮進去的好 那這部分是不是可以再把一個相關的資料可能在可能就在你們七月底就要公布了嗎我們會在七月底之前就一定會公布 對那到時候我們會有一個詳細的說明跟社會大眾做報告"},{"start":171.573,"end":180.697,"text":"好是希望說也許那個方向這邊如果有報告的話希望是這一個禮拜之內是不是大概初步方向可以提供給我們嗎是謝謝委員這樣的一個指教我想這個都會是納入我們方案的規劃的範圍內的好那我們繼續再往下看齁另外看到一個問題是央行也指出啊新金漢呢讓首購族的總屋價呢上漲了17%齁這代表政府的這個補貼呢全部被房價所所吸收了齁那還包括的是"},{"start":201.386,"end":221.786,"text":"一千萬元的貸款額度啦四十年期還有五年的寬限期這部分等於說是放任的高幹桿去搶 到市場去搶房啦對 房價就越墊越高啦所以本席要問的說願不願意將民眾申請新清安可貸款的金額上限與合理的房價所得比來做掛鉤部長願意嗎"},{"start":224.389,"end":227.414,"text":"像委員您指教的都是我們在這一次的時候提出清安3.0的時候都要納入考量的我們要把資源放在確實需要這個政府協助的一個購買自住房屋的民眾身上"},{"start":239.451,"end":266.54,"text":"對 部長我現在合理要問的說合理的房價比你現在知道嗎台灣現在的合理房價所得比是多少嗎沒有所謂合 現在平均母國的確實是房價所得比是有高的現象比其他國家比起來是有高那因此政府才會以各種方式來協助民眾有關居住的部分包含除了我們新青安之外不管是社會住宅或者住民服貼等等各種方式 部長我請你看看我這邊的表格請你看一下螢幕上面當所出的"},{"start":266.94,"end":269.863,"text":"目前呢在你的資料顯示呢就在我的資料顯示呢在15倍以下的的確有達到73.66那是合理的喔那這個15倍的意思代表說在台北市的話就是大概15多可是其他縣市的話當然就更低了"},{"start":283.338,"end":292.041,"text":"那這邊可是超過15倍以上的所得房價所得比甚至還包括20倍以上的總共加起來是多少?是三成以上欸超過三成以上表示他到時候在五年之後開始還本金的話那就可能到時候怎麼樣?他就是賣掉或者是他就變成法拍了這個有幫到的是他可以合理的去指引他拿到就是變成他自己的房子嗎?這個事實你要看到啊"},{"start":309.721,"end":313.145,"text":"跟委員報告銀行在核貸的時候都會把告訴他說你核貸的金額然後你可以你申請貸款金額跟未來在寬限期你要繳的金額以及未來本息繳款的時候是怎樣的金額都會對這個申請者來做一個詳細的說明"},{"start":329.245,"end":334.049,"text":"那這個貸款戶他也必須要橫著他自己的收入而銀行在貸款的時候也會看他的收入的情形能不能有支應我想這個在銀行貸款的時候都會去做這樣的一個審慎的一個評估這也是我們這一次在提出清安3.0的時候所以 部長 銀行要對民眾確切的說明還是要有個避免到高槓桿的這樣子的情形都要讓民眾自己在財務的評估上都要事先都要做詳細的說明跟評估的"},{"start":356.084,"end":361.167,"text":"太高的這個比例當中的確會形成很大的問題啦這部分是不是可以提供一個比較更具體的方向的一個一個說明給本席啊呃我不知道委員您說的我說的這部分吼這邊我因為你看到了因為這部分要遏制到房價你要遏制到房價尤其是台北市已經這麼高那現在的情況是如果他15倍的他還要百分超過三成的部分是在房間合理的房價儲備你們應該事實上要或是你們是不是上也有研議往這方向去進行"},{"start":386.104,"end":386.164,"text":"美其名"},{"start":402.613,"end":417.32,"text":"這個是一個要幫助成家那可是天天在喊的是少子化是國安危機但是對於單身跟沒有生小孩拿到的國家的補貼呢是完全一樣的是不是應該購物的補貼應該在優先投入到"},{"start":418.32,"end":430.268,"text":"婚育的家庭上面 所以許工部長是不是願意給實施生越多 補越多的這個就是實施生越多補越多的一個動態利率折扣例如說寬限 生一胎的話就給了三年的寬限期第二胎呢 有出現了再給到延長三年來減緩青年家庭在育兒初期的現金流壓力呢"},{"start":440.231,"end":455.54,"text":"委員報告對於人口這個問題其實我們已經提出了這個所謂國家的新戰略政府以多面向的方式來協助婚育家庭的一個經濟上的一個需求那在親安貸款的部分我們也會考慮婚育家庭是不是貸款額度給予不同的一個分別那其實貸款額度高的話方向就是有納入這個部分"},{"start":463.865,"end":472.635,"text":"對 婚姻家庭會有不同的一個額度的不同是好 因為時間包括是 因為七月底馬上就要公佈了嘛那我們當然就希望說繼續的就是在最終下去對 委員的意見我們都會都是在我們參考的範圍內好 那我繼續再看到一個是"},{"start":478.921,"end":493.666,"text":"納稅者的權益保護法實施將近10年但是我們看到的是納保官的設置是很重要的已經出現了但是納保官他現在的制度是設在國稅局或是地方稅捐機關然後人事考積跟升遷都是由稅捐機關來做管理認滿之後他還回到原的稅務機關一產生所謂監督自己人去監督自己人的這樣的疑慮請問的是"},{"start":504.47,"end":522.08,"text":"財政部這一部分是不是我們要看到是不是有這樣的一個懷疑現行制度上面是不是想說現在的納保官到底有多少位他都是專任還是兼任的他設施的地方是還有說他到底有沒有在全國性的這樣子的一個對於制度性的改革有些幫助是不是也提供一些舉重實力出來是我想這個納保官確實是蠻重要的可以讓珍納雙方的爭議可以盡量減少"},{"start":529.324,"end":545.653,"text":"那這個部分我們也持續在精進社會各界的意見我們也討論包含納保官可以納入外界的一個除了稅監機關本身的人之外也可以納入外部的委員這都持續在做那至於詳細的執行請您是不是可以由我們複稅署的署長來做跟您說說明"},{"start":548.192,"end":575.227,"text":"報告委員我們納保跟制度實施到現在已經9年快9年了那其實各地區國稅局跟地方稅基金機關因為他是直接去處理納稅者的案件的所以我們現在納保兩者都是由他們他有沒有在制度性的改革我知道我都可以列出來啦包括房地合稅合一稅就是你們常常講的嘛90萬的這個稅呢變成到8萬了等等嘛這不是常常講的但制度性的改革尤其是我剛剛講的"},{"start":576.508,"end":595.634,"text":"包括的是該給的稅是要法律上的保障它才是真的可是你們用的時候很多的含釋就可以讓他們就是給的給的納稅人這部分的話其實說對於在程序合法性是很大的問題的這部分是不是應該要去好好去思考你們有提到制度性的改革的部分嗎有嗎"},{"start":596.414,"end":611.331,"text":"去年呢 我們納稅者權利保護法有修正喔slash保援提案修正也經過立法院通過有增加外部專家學者那現在各稅捐基金機關都會在我們那個保管裡面會選任一些外部專家學者會增加"},{"start":614.537,"end":632.736,"text":"那請問一下 現在的納保官他本身的考機是由誰在考的?考機是誰在考的?你意思是納保官嗎?對 因為是獨立的外部專家學者就沒有考機的問題了獨立的 獨立的沒有所以他就是專任的獨立人士嗎?是 是 是 外部專家學者我們稱為外部專家學者 對好"},{"start":633.957,"end":649.365,"text":"那其他的部分還包括的是你們知道那個函令這部分的部分在當初的關於說只要有程序上面的話只要是有函令的話甚至基於什麼國家機密的保障啊這個部分就不給了理由可是你要知道"},{"start":650.766,"end":666.823,"text":"作為一個財政部就是所謂的納保官他本身徵稅就是一個非常重要侵犯的財政權他必須要非常足夠的一個理由因此程序正義是非常重要的是不是應該給予這部分剛才在納保法裡面有相關的權益的修訂是不是也應該要考量呢"},{"start":667.964,"end":687.032,"text":"報告委員我們現在所有的行政規則包含解釋令根據稅法的規定根據法律的規定都要進行一定的法律程序不是說隨便我們今天財政部要發就可以發他有一定的法律程序是不是因為其實其實有很多的一個一個意見出來了啦我是不是也請說財政部在大概在"},{"start":688.192,"end":705.55,"text":"七八月我們的會期結束之前給我們一個這個在納保官或是納保法上面修訂的制度上面的一個改革的建議或是一個改革的方向給本市那可以給兩個月時間嗎是不是最後把這個報告沒有那就這樣子那就那就那就三個月之內好不好好謝謝謝謝好謝謝好謝謝謝謝蘇冰"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}